# General Discussion > Opinions >  Bestiality vs Child Sex vs Homosexuality vs Incest

## Silverbackman

Whenever someone thinks of incest or child sex, the whole "icky" feeling takes over. I think most people would support this icky feeling for these acts. Who wouldn't? In many countries both child sex and incest are banned, even incest between two consenting adults. Many would agree with this as well I think.

Bestiality seems to be legal in more countries than child sex and incest. It certainly isn't discussed are as popular as other "abnormal" sexual practices but certainly people would go "ewww" with animal sex as well.

Most people would probably agree that Bestiality, Child Sex, and Incest should be acts that should be considered "Mentally Ill" or people who have these desires should get treatment.

Not too long ago the same was for homosexuals in Western Countries. To a certain extent it still is the same in parts of the Western World and illegal in many other countries in the world.

What is the difference between incest and homosexuality for example? Both can be classified as "abnormal sex". Both taboos can easily be broken as seen today in the Western World (homosexuality) as well as during ancient times with the Egyptians (incest). I think most people wouldn't want the taboo against incest to be taken away. However some think taboos on homosexuality should. But is this justifiable? If we lift the taboos off homosexuality, then shouldn't we do the same thing with incest? Of course incest seems too "icky", but to some so does homosexuality.

The following page advocates same-sex "marriage";

http://www.deism.org/frames.htm

There are many good arguments for same-sex marriage but a few it seems the author cannot win against. For example;




> 5. "Homosexual marriage is as wrong as giving a man a license to marry his mother or daughter or sister or a group."
> 
> False comparison. 
> 
> It's a tactic of radical right wingers to try to compare same-gender love to sexually predatory behaviors or incest. There's no comparison. 
> 
> Stay on topic, please. 
> 
> Next.


How is there no comparison? Why is it a false comparison? If a brother and a sister love each other in the way a husband and wife do, why is their relationship considered sick and "same-gender love" not? In most social issues I am not a "right-winger", but I see a very valid comparison here. Many same-sex marriage advocates claim that incest is sick and homosexuality isn't but isn't this huge hypocriticalism? They can't imagine how incest can be considered not sick, but this is the feeling many people have about homosexuality.

You can't just say marriage is between two adults who love each other because if that is the case the marrying my mother or my father should be valid too, right?

Now this isn't my personal opinion on homosexuality. I am open to free-will, if you want to have sex with your relatives or animals go ahead (although I will consider it damn sick). If you want to have sex with someone of the same gender go right ahead as well. While I don't necessarily think homosexuality is as sick incest or bestiality I do see how it is definitely an alternative separate issue than real marriage.

Thoughts?

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## Mars Man

Just a few questions. . . 

I'm not quite sure what you mean by the term 'sick'. Also, how much difference would you put between the words 'animal' and 'human'. To what degree would you hold the terms 'agape', 'philas', and 'eros' as being relevant to the word 'love', and in what states and circumstances? I would hope to get these cleared up before voting or commenting on this. 

An interesting topic. I hope to hear from you. Thanks !!

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## Silverbackman

> Just a few questions. . . 
> I'm not quite sure what you mean by the term 'sick'. Also, how much difference would you put between the words 'animal' and 'human'. To what degree would you hold the terms 'agape', 'philas', and 'eros' as being relevant to the word 'love', and in what states and circumstances? I would hope to get these cleared up before voting or commenting on this. 
> An interesting topic. I hope to hear from you. Thanks !!


By sick I mean......well you know ;). Not sick as in not well. Sick as in "icky". You know that feeling if you touch or smell poop :Blush: . Stuff that makes you go "ewww".

Perhaps it is better us the term interspecies relationship rather than bestiality. Or human sex with non-human animals. When I say animals I mean non-human animals.

I assume there are different types of "love". Obviously I love my mother and while we are two adults that love each other it doesn't mean we should be allowed to marry. I love my my best friend who is a man but it isn't the same thing marriage.

Of course one can argue that loving your female friends may contradict this. However your best female friend (with with females your male friend) is what makes marriage.

There are many forms of "love", which wouldn't seem to make much sense with marriage between same-blood or same-sex people.

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## Mars Man

Thanks !! And just a quicky here...some good points made there. I'll give them some serious consideration and then come back. See you !!

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## Thor

Incest is very disgusting, but everything on that list is except homosexuality. Why is that up there with the likes of incest, and pedophilia?

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## Silverbackman

> Incest is very disgusting, but everything on that list is except homosexuality. Why is that up there with the likes of incest, and pedophilia?


Well yea that is sort of the point of this thread to see what separates homosexuality from other forms of alternative partner sex.

You think incest is disgusting, right? Well there have been cultures where incest has not been considered sick and not taboo (like in Ancient Egypt). Same with homosexuality as we can see in Ancient Greece and to a certain extent the modern Western World. 

30 years ago homosexuality would have been considered as sick as incest. 70 years ago incest at least between cousins was far more accepted (as seen with Charles Darwin and FDR).

So why is incest considered sick and not homosexuality? Both involve two adults that love each other, but we for some reason in recent years opened up to homosexuals. I am not saying that we shouldn't have, all I am saying is that if we get rid of this taboo why not other taboos as well. If we keep other taboos closed why not keep homosexuality closed.

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## Kinsao

That is a very good and interesting point, Silverbackman.
Umm... and I can't think of anything to say on it at this point.  :Bluush: 
Except, that I think bestiality is the most 'sick' out of the things you listed, because the others all have as their basis a sexual attraction to another human being, which is in essence a normal human instinct.

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## Tsuyoiko

Remember that child sex and incest very often overlap - aren't most child victims abused by a family member?

I think child sex and bestiality equally the most 'sick'. I find these acts sick because they are done against someone who cannot give their consent. I would consider any form of rape almost as sick.

The issue of incest (between consenting adults) I find much less clear cut. I find it distasteful, but I can't give a clear reason why - it is just a gut reaction. I found this Wiki article, which I hoped would clarify things, but it just left me more confused.

Homosexuality I have no problem with, although I know people who are not especially bigoted or intolerant, but who have a gut reaction telling them it is wrong.

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## dreamer

Well... actually the only thought of s3x makes me feel sick ^^'
And to think you'd do it with someone you like (wether it's a child, a pet or a family member) makes it even worse

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## Tokis-Phoenix

> Most people would probably agree that Bestiality, Child Sex, and Incest should be acts that should be considered "Mentally Ill" or people who have these desires should get treatment.


I don't think these people should be classed as "mentally ill" Because they are able to live and think perfectly normally- what makes them abnormal is their sex drive/hormones which they cannot control. Which brings me to the second point- when you say "should get treatment", it worries me, as its the sort of thing a christian might say to a gay guy as in "your existance is sinfull/evil for as long as you have these desires, therefore you must change yourself"(basically meaning you should make yourself socially acceptable)- thousands of people have been permanently screwed up by others trying to interfere with their sex drive, which they were born with. 
I think incest, paedophilia, beastiality and gayness and all that are abnormal, but i think child sex and beastiality is the worst because the child or animal cannot give proper consent to such a thing- incest and homosexuality i still find pretty gross, but on the whole, i don't have a problem with it as long as individual is older enough to consent to such a thing. I generally agree with Tsuyoiko on this.

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## Reiku

> By sick I mean......well you know ;). Not sick as in not well. Sick as in "icky". You know that feeling if you touch or smell poop. Stuff that makes you go "ewww".


Um, I hate to be the one to tell you this--but some people like _that_ too. It's referred to as "scat", and if you ever do a google search for that word--while looking for the *S*outh. *C*ounty. *A*rea. *T*ransit. bus system's website for example--you will most likely regret it the rest of your life.  :Relieved: 

Which--once again--brings up the problem with issues like these: How can we tell the difference between something truly "sick", and something which simply sickens us?

After all, some people find _brocolli_ disgusting--that doesn't mean people who like it are morally lacking.  :Blush: 

One thing, the poll says "child sex", but that is a bit vauge. I assume you mean between an adult and a child--but that term could also apply to children engaging in sexual behavior of any kind--even masturbation. It also leaves the massive question of where the line between "child" and "adult" should be drawn.

I would tend to agree that an adult having sex with a child is wrong, but I've come to the point where I try not to see things in terms of right and wrong--I just don't think I'm wise enough to make sweeping moral judgements with any accuracy.

Other than that, I really can't think of a valid reason for labling any of the poll options as being "sick" They aren't my cup of tea, but I can't really find sufficient arguments against them that don't rely on subjective preference.

Of course, with incest there is the matter of inbreeding and destbilization of the family structure to consider--but sex does not nessecarily mean _reproduction,_ and in some cases the family dynamic might not be an issue.

Also, with beastiality there is the question of whether it qualifies as _rape_ with regards to the animal--but all of these points seem too fine and too muddled by personal or popular opinion for me to feel I can be objective about them.

Personally, I say whatever gets you off--as long as nobody gets pregnant or taken advantage of. Although the "taken advantage of" thing gets a bit complicated when you try to define it...  :Relieved:

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## yukon

I find child sex to be disgusting. Consenting or no, the child has not developed physically or mentally to understand their actions. I find incest to be odd. There are some muslim communities where marriage within the caste was encouraged to keep the wealth within the family. This was more common 10-20 years back. Not sure what is its state now. Bestiality- Neutral. Common in arab countries where sex before marriage is a taboo and the guy needs a release. And besides, sex with female goats there is legal.
Homosexuals- Until a few years back, it was really icky for me. But since then, like half of all sexual topics on tv(US tv) and online is about homos. Learnt a lot more about this matter. I follow the US army policy- Don't ask, don't tell. In a way, straight guys should be grateful to homos. 2 guys dating each other means less competition for girls. Take a look at the bright side  :Wink:

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## Reiku

So, troll--or just naturally bigoted?

Either way, you really should stop getting your info on arabs from my country's TV programs, yukon.  :Blush:

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## Thunderthief

Modern times have screwed up the social structure... It used to be perfectly acceptable to marry a cousin, a step sister/brother, or for a 25 year old to marry a 12 year old daughter of a close friend or relative. (Edgar Allan Poe)
These acts are consitered disgusting now... but a century and a half ago they were common place. What changed it? well I dont know exactly... 
I know its completely illegal, but in my eyes if both parties are willing there isnt a problem. Its not wrong, it never was in past centuries dozens of generations before, just modern culture has made it out to be wrong. 

As far as beastality and homosexuality goes... both are excessively disgusting and un-natural, but ill say beastality being the worst of the two.

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## No-name

Thunderchief, I doubt that a century and a half ago, standards were as different as you depict. Even the marriage age only dipped low for brief periods of history and only for certain social classes. Child marriage continues to be a global problem today. We should post some facts to back up our claims, and perhaps when I have time, I will look for sources.

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## Ma Cherie

I would think that bestiality is the sickest of all. But I never thought of homosexuality being sick, I think it's because it involves two consenting adults. Incest, it as sickening to me to a point, but I think we need to remember that incest was accepted at some point in history and so was child sex. It's really hard to say these days.  :Doubt:

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## Tokis-Phoenix

I think the reason why deep down we feel against or sickened by these things, is because its instinctive. If everyone went around shagging animals, children, the same genders as they are or inbreeding in the family, the human race would be go a very bad way. Male is attracted to female for the purpose of reproduction and vice versa, and male is attracted to a female who has gone through puberty and vice versa for the same reason again. 
Our instincts tell us any other way is wrong. Unless society gets in the way and starts encouraging an acceptance of certain forms of behavior, most of us naturally feel negative about committing such acts unless we happen to be born that way and are incapable of feelings the norms of behavior like being attracted to a mature person of the opposet sex. 
I have nothing againt gays as what they do is their own buisness, i find the thought of incest sickening but i have nothing against that either as long as no one is taking advantage of anyone or getting pregnant etc- i don't like people taking advantage of others though, like when a man rapes a child or a dog for example, as its gone beyond the bounds of just somthing that has the best interests and happyness of both individuals at heart and crossed over the line into somthing far darker and not morally correct IMO.

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## moffeltoff

As Tokis-Phoenix already said the only reason we think any of these in some cases all are sick is because it would lead to the exstinction of our own race its a selfprotectionreflex programmed by nature.

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## Reiku

Exactly.

The problem is that instinct and morality do not always agree with one another. Taking advantage is morally wrong in any form, but it can be nessecary for the survival of an individual or species, so our instincts sometimes point us in this direction. Likewise I'd argue that giving pleasure is moraly _right,_ but--to paraphrase George Carlin:

"Peace and love is a nice idea, but it can get you killed"  :Evil:

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## heliobacter

from my point of few, these terms shouldn't be lumped together.

i believe that people who disire to have sex with children / animals weren't born like that. i'm not a psychologist, but i'm pretty sure that these - morally AND instinctively wrong - behavoirs are caused by traumatas or a seriousely faulty development of the concerning subject. raping a child or an animal can't have anything to do with a feeling or even LOVE, it's a loss of control of an affected mind.

WHILE

homosexuality is more than just sex, its the same when we heteros fall in love, with every pros and cons. it not sick or anything. homosexuality isn't driven by sexual desires, i think it's like: you love a person, who's been born with the wrong gender... i don't know how to make myself clear at this point, since it's not easy to describe if you aren't gay yourself.

but the more homosexual people i've met, the easier it is to understand them.

in addition, i don't think gays harm society in any way. our modern world has more serious problems than a one digit percentage of population that cannot make babies  :Sou ka:

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## Artiewhitefox

The thing of it is all of it is sex. The problem humans get into to is being a stone thrower, and hence become anti Christ. This is because Christ is not a stone thrower. We should judge ourselves. When Jesus was here that is what he did when he walked among men, and he is our example. 

  :Heart:

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## Artiewhitefox

The thing of it is all of it is sex. The problem humans get into to is being a stone thrower, and hence become anti Christ. This is because Christ is not a stone thrower. We should judge ourselves. When Jesus was here that is what he did when he walked among men, and he is our example. 

  :Heart:

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## RaHoWa

> Incest is very disgusting, but everything on that list is except homosexuality. Why is that up there with the likes of incest, and pedophilia?


Homosexuality IS Sick also.It's NO different than pedophilia,beastiality,or necrophelia,Homosexuality is just as sick and disgusting

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## RaHoWa

> Incest is very disgusting, but everything on that list is except homosexuality. Why is that up there with the likes of incest, and pedophilia?


it IS just as sick as the rest.You must be a homosexual,only a homo would say being gay isnt sick,well it IS sick!

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## LeBrok

RaHoWa, define what you mean by "sick". And it'd better be a genetic mutation.

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## ebAmerican

I bet you RaHoWa watches lesbian porn (lipstick lesbians). I hate the hypocrisy in the US. All these right winged bigots jumping on gay marriage and homosexual acts while being caught with lesbian porn.

Our level of sickness (sexual acts) is proportionate to the level of harm or perceived harm. In most societies beatiality is perceived as a potential health threat, Incest is perceived as a potential genetic threat. Pedophilia is perceived as a potential threat to a child (physically or physiologically). Homosexuals for a longtime have been perceived as a potential health risk as well. As more education became and is becoming available about homosexual life and sexual activities the threat perception is becoming less and homosexuals are being tolerated by society. If the bigots could ever prove that being homosexual was bad (they are trying) then social perception would swing to a less tolerable stance. I seriously doubt ancient Egyptian culture practice incest on a wide spread basis. It was mostly within the elite and it had a political motivation that out weighed the negative risk.

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## Twilight

Well Pedophilia and committing Bestiality sounds quite harmful but now after reading all of your comments if the brother and sister or cousins truly love each other and are truly committed to each other then why not but hey there are plenty of fish in the sea, I don't think it is a good idea to repeat incest for too many generations just like having candy, having too mush candy is bad for you but a little bit is okay.

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## AnimalLover

I don't understand why people say that people who let there animals have sex with them are abnormal are sick because we're not, I'be never forced anything to do anything with me we are all willing. Plus Bestiality has been around for ever

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## Grubbe

I love my pet very much, and I would be very sorry if I lost it for some reason, or if it died, but I would not ever want to have sex with it. One thing is that they cannot consent to such a thing, another is that they wouldn't be interested (they have their own instincts to have sex with their own kind), and a third thing is that they are not physically adapted to human sex: Think of the great pain dogs, goats, sheep etc. must feel by human penetration. So if you really love your pets or other animals in your care: Leave them alone sexually.

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## LeBrok

> I love my pet very much, and I would be very sorry if I lost it for some reason, or if it died, but I would not ever want to have sex with it. One thing is that they cannot consent to such a thing, another is that they wouldn't be interested (they have their own instincts to have sex with their own kind), and a third thing is that they are not physically adapted to human sex: Think of the great pain dogs, goats, sheep etc. must feel by human penetration. So if you really love your pets or other animals in your care: Leave them alone sexually.


However, dogs find shape of human legs sexy. Small dogs love humping men's arm. Of course if not neutered.

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## Cambrius (The Red)

I really think that both bestiality and child sex are both horrible beyond words. Lock them up and throw away the key ...

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## adamo

I love girls

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## Grubbe

> However, dogs find shape of human legs sexy. Small dogs love humping men's arm. Of course if not neutered.


 I would call that playfulness, not actual sexual behavior. I would think that they had been quite scared if you tried to hump them...

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## LeBrok

> I would call that playfulness, not actual sexual behavior


. 
Playfulness? They have erected penises!
Maybe some memories when they were humans in previous life? That would easily explain situation for you.





> I would think that they had been quite scared if you tried to hump them...


 I never said that dogs are sexy to me.

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## Grubbe

> . 
> Playfulness? They have erected penises!


 So what? Are you suggesting that they want to copulate with human beings? I have had more than one tomcat that have licked their genitalia after I have petted them - obviously they have had a very good time that has manifested physically. But that is not to say that I think they wanted to have sex with me.

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## LeBrok

> So what? Are you suggesting that they want to copulate with human beings?


 Lol, thrusting movements and erected penises. You do the math. 
Dude, they are already doing it. It is just not successful procreation due to non compatibility.




> I have had more than one tomcat that have licked their genitalia after I have petted them - obviously they have had a very good time that has manifested physically. But that is not to say that I think they wanted to have sex with me.


 Did you ask them?
Right, they can't manifest it verbally. Therefore you concluded that they don't want to have sex with you. 
Again, how about their memories from previous life playing role in it?

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