# Population Genetics > Autosomal Genetics >  Blood types in ancient Europe

## Tomenable

*Rhesus:*

*Rh-* was common in both Proto-Indo-Europeans and hunter-gatherers, but not in Neolithic farmers:

http://mathii.github.io/2017/09/21/b...ancient-europe

"(...) It turns out that the O allele is at high frequency in hunter-gatherers, but relatively rare on the Steppe. The B allele seems to be absent in both hunter-gatherers and early farmers, and seems to be introduced from the steppe in the Bronze Age.* The Rh- allele seems to be relatively common in hunter-gatherers and, particularly, in steppe populations*, and relatively rare in early farmers, partly confirming Haldane and Cavalli-Sforza’s hypotheses. Allele frequency estimates are in the figures below (bars show 95% binomial confidence intervals). (...)"

"(...) If we compute expected phenotypic frequencies, this suggests that around around 65% of Mesolithic hunter-gatherers would have been type O, compared to around 40% in present-day Europeans, and *around 40% of Steppe-ancestry individuals would have been Rh-, compared to around 24% of hunter-gatherers, 4% of early farmers, and about 16% of present-day Europeans.* (...)"

This is from Ian Mathieson:

https://twitter.com/mathiesoniain/st...01882063142913



Rh blood groups in modern Europe (look at this high frequency of Rh- in Ukraine):

This maps shows frequencies of Rh+ (and low frequency of Rh+ *=* high of Rh-):



*ABO:*

Blood O is the most indigenous, blood B appears only after Indo-European invasions:

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/bior...4/135616-1.pdf

From pages 53-54:

"We estimated allele frequencies at three markers that largely determine ABO blood group.14
The 1-base deletion rs8176719 that is the most common type O mutation is at high frequency
in hunter-gatherers. Combining all hunter-gatherer populations, we estimate the frequency of
the O allele to be 84% (95% CI: 76-89%), which implies that the frequency of the type O
phenotype which requires homozygosity for the O allele was 71%. This is significantly higher
than the O allele frequency in present-day Europeans (60-65% in 1000 Genomes populations,
with corresponding phenotype frequency ~40%). *We do not detect the B allele (rs8176746 and rs8176747) in any hunter-gatherers suggesting that all other individuals were type A. In fact, the B allele is not seen in any Neolithic populations either, and is introduced into Europe by Steppe populations who we estimate carry it at ~8% frequency."*

========

Indo-Europeans introduced B, but A was still much more common among them. On the other hand, O was relatively rare among them, and more commong among WHG hunters and EEF farmers.

This map shows the modern distribution of A allele in Europe:



O is the least Indo-European, associated with WHG and EEF:



Finally, modern frequencies of B allele in Western Eurasia:

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## Tomenable

Rh negative was not exclusively Indo-European, as it was common among WHG as well. On the other hand, it was very rare among Early Neolithic Farmers of Anatolian origin. *What implications does it have when it comes to serological conflicts in ancient Europe?* As you know sometimes Rh incompatibility between parents causes serological conflict in children of such couples. Modern medicine can prevent serological conflict, but that was not the case in ancient times. Haplogroup frequencies could change partially due to serological conflicts. Maybe this partially explains the decline of Y-DNA G2a, the rise of Y-DNA R1b and mtDNA H in Western Europe.

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## Ziober

Interesting. I am -AB

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## Wheal

Yes, very interesting. I am B+, my husband 0+, and we have one sone 0+ and one son O-. My mother was AB, and father was O+ (with one brother O-) and I have a mix of A and B brothers and sisters.

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## Dibran

My mom is O- and I am AB-(at least through predictor so it could be off). Where is AB- most common? My father and 2 of my sisters are RH+. I don't know specific group though.

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## Dibran

> Interesting. I am -AB


Mine is also AB-

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## Stuvanè

Mine is A- (the same of my dad).
Mum is B-

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## Wheal

Dibran, your type doesn't make sense to me, and it could be that my understanding of blood type is faulty. The way type inheritance was explained to me was that both parents carry two types. For instance my dad was O so both of his parents had to be O and he could only give me an O. My mom was AB, so one of her parents gave her an A and the other a B, so she could only give A or B. I was B, I was given B from mother and O from father which makes me OB, I gave both of my sons O, and my husband, who is O, gave them O. If I had given them B, then they would also be OB, and be type B because O is recessive.

Would love to hear comments and have a correction to my understanding if I am wrong.

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## LeBrok

I'm so hunter-gatherer lol, O-

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## Dibran

> Dibran, your type doesn't make sense to me, and it could be that my understanding of blood type is faulty. The way type inheritance was explained to me was that both parents carry two types. For instance my dad was O so both of his parents had to be O and he could only give me an O. My mom was AB, so one of her parents gave her an A and the other a B, so she could only give A or B. I was B, I was given B from mother and O from father which makes me OB, I gave both of my sons O, and my husband, who is O, gave them O. If I had given them B, then they would also be OB, and be type B because O is recessive.
> 
> Would love to hear comments and have a correction to my understanding if I am wrong.


You could be right. Mine was guesstimated from those raw data apps. So it could be mostly wrong. My mom says shes O- as far as she recalls from her last bloodwork. If I am AB- then I presume(assuming you got the right idea) that one is A the other B? I just know my moms Rh- for sure and my father Rh+. My moms womb did not reject me as is the case with Rh- women. So I assume I am Rh- given that my 2 sisters who also had a normal birth are Rh-. my mother needed some type of medication to keep her body from attacking my other 2 siblings who are Rh+ like my father. Is the raw data conversion app for eye color hair, and bloodtype accurate? If so, I imagine the prediction is correct.

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## New Englander

I am B -, odd for my ancestry, but great Britain does have the highest frequency in Europe.

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## Diomedes

O+ here, yes I come from the monkey lineage.

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## Angela

Mine is B+ blood type.

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## vcovaci

> Dibran, your type doesn't make sense to me, and it could be that my understanding of blood type is faulty. The way type inheritance was explained to me was that both parents carry two types. For instance my dad was O so both of his parents had to be O and he could only give me an O. My mom was AB, so one of her parents gave her an A and the other a B, so she could only give A or B. I was B, I was given B from mother and O from father which makes me OB, I gave both of my sons O, and my husband, who is O, gave them O. If I had given them B, then they would also be OB, and be type B because O is recessive.
> 
> Would love to hear comments and have a correction to my understanding if I am wrong.


This should help:

http://science.halleyhosting.com/sci.../bloodtype.htm

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## kingjohn

mine A+ 
father special O- :)

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## Wheal

Thank you vcovaci. I have to admit, I think OB smells better than BO

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## Maciamo

Very interesting. Thanks for posting, Tomenable.

The role of Rh+ is still unclear but it has been linked to protection against toxoplasmosis (passed on by cats). So cat lovers had better be Rh+.

Apparently the B blood type (anti-B antibodies) offers better protection against gram-negative bacteria like E. coli, Salmonella, Chlamydia, Vibrio cholerae (cholera) and Yersinia pestis (plague). The B type is most common in South Asia (40% in India) and Southeast Asia (37% in Thailand). Not surprising as these are regions festering with nasty bacteria. 

AB confers the most resistance against cholera. The AB type is most common in Korea (11%), Japan (10%) and South Asia, followed by the northern Middle East and central-eastern Europe.

The A type might be more efficient at fighting off influenza. A+ individuals are the most likely to to survive plague, but also more likely to develop cancer of the esophagus, pancreas, and stomach. A is most common in Nordic and German-speaking countries, Bulgaria, Turkey, Cyprus, Portugal and Papua New Guinea. Bouts of flu are indeed more common in colder Germanic countries.

The O type is protective against cardiovascular diseases and many types of cancer. O is most common in Latin America and Mongolia. In Europe it peaks in Iceland and Ireland (55%), then Britain (44%), the Low countries (46%), Spain (45%), Italy (46%) and Greece (44%).

More details in this thread.

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## Angela

Not that it matters to anyone but me, but I'm A+, not B+. I had to go back and check because it doesn't seem to stick in my head. :)

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## Sile

There was an unexplained issue to me in regards to different blood in my family
Wife is A-
me A+
Concern was *if the children born where A+* ..............no issue occurred due to ALL born A-
Father was B+ 
mother A+
sister O ( unsure if + or - )
grandfather paternal O+
Uncle paternal O+

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## Salento

I’m Rh 0+

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## hrvat22

Mother AB+ 
Father A+

I am A-

Croatia

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## Regio X

There is also the ABO incompatibility, generally with mild effects: http://www.pregnancy.com.au/resource...newborns.shtml
It happens when the mother has O blood type and the baby has either A or B.
I'm A+. Parents are both A+ in phenotype and AO in genotype.




> Dibran, your type doesn't make sense to me, and it could be that my understanding of blood type is faulty. The way type inheritance was explained to me was that both parents carry two types. For instance my dad was O so both of his parents had to be O


In fact, his parents could be A or B or O in phenotype and AO or BO or OO in genotype.





> and he could only give me an O.


That's correct.

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## Promenade

> There is also the ABO incompatibility, generally with mild effects: http://www.pregnancy.com.au/resource...newborns.shtml
> It happens when the mother has O blood type and the baby has either A or B.
> I'm A+. Parents are both A+ in phenotype and AO in genotype.
> 
> In fact, his parents could be A or B or O in phenotype and AO or BO or OO in genotype.
> 
> 
> That's correct.


Would there be any issue with the child if the man is A and the woman is O?

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## Wheal

Interesting, Regio X. With my first son (O+), I was given Rhogam after his birth. He had no jaundice effects and was a full term baby. 

Second son was very jaundiced (O-), didn't see Rhogam on the hospital bill but remember that I was instructed to let him lay in sunlight with no clothes each time I changed his diaper, for about 10 minutes. The jaundice did slowly go away. I had to have amnio twice with his pregnancy, to check lung gases, to make sure his lungs were mature enough to be born (by c-section). The first time he was not, the second time, he was not quite, but scheduled for delivery the following week.

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## Ziober

> Would there be any issue with the child if the man is A and the woman is O?


There could be any problem when father is + and mother - (the letter never mind)

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## Regio X

> Would there be any issue with the child if the man is A and the woman is O?





> Interesting, Regio X. With my first son (O+), I was given Rhogam after his birth. He had no jaundice effects and was a full term baby. 
> Second son was very jaundiced (O-), didn't see Rhogam on the hospital bill but remember that I was instructed to let him lay in sunlight with no clothes each time I changed his diaper, for about 10 minutes. The jaundice did slowly go away. I had to have amnio twice with his pregnancy, to check lung gases, to make sure his lungs were mature enough to be born (by c-section). The first time he was not, the second time, he was not quite, but scheduled for delivery the following week.


With regard to the ABO incompatibility, if the man is AA and the woman is OO, the child "will be" AO in genotype and A in phenotype. If he is AO and she is OO, then the child could be either AO or OO. If the child is AO and the mother is O, the ABO incompatibility may or may not occur. If it occurs, it could take light effects (mild jaundice) or more severe effects (intense jaundice), i.e., the level of bilirubin could go up a lot (less common) or not too much (more common). If too much, the level should be controlled either by phototerapy or – in severe cases – exsanguinous transfusion, ‘cause the high bilirubin level in newborns can impair the brain permanently.
Sunbath is the “treatment” when the child leave the hospital (see Wheal’s post).

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## firetown

> Very interesting. Thanks for posting, Tomenable.
> 
> The role of Rh+ is still unclear but it has been linked to protection against toxoplasmosis (passed on by cats). So cat lovers had better be Rh+.
> 
> Apparently the B blood type (anti-B antibodies) offers better protection against gram-negative bacteria like E. coli, Salmonella, Chlamydia, Vibrio cholerae (cholera) and Yersinia pestis (plague). The B type is most common in South Asia (40% in India) and Southeast Asia (37% in Thailand). Not surprising as these are regions festering with nasty bacteria. 
> 
> AB confers the most resistance against cholera. The AB type is most common in Korea (11%), Japan (10%) and South Asia, followed by the northern Middle East and central-eastern Europe.
> 
> The A type might be more efficient at fighting off influenza. A+ individuals are the most likely to to survive plague, but also more likely to develop cancer of the esophagus, pancreas, and stomach. A is most common in Nordic and German-speaking countries, Bulgaria, Turkey, Cyprus, Portugal and Papua New Guinea. Bouts of flu are indeed more common in colder Germanic countries.
> ...


I prefer to look at regions rather than nations. For example: The "Walsers" (Rhone Valley residents) seem to top the European list with 60% blood type O frequencies. Basques are around 51%. When it comes to Britain, things are also highly regional as you can see here:
northernireland.jpg
The Rhone Valley residents also have Basque-like frequencies of rh negative blood.
As for blood type AB: I have found a study of ancient Hebrews quite interesting where more than half of the 55 specimens examined turned out to be blood type AB:
http://www.rhesusnegative.net/stayne...cient-hebrews/

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## Wheal

> Mother AB+ 
> Father A+
> 
> I am A-
> 
> Croatia


How do you determine where the negative comes from? Is it the male?

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## firetown

> How do you determine where the negative comes from? Is it the male?


It has nothing to do with that.

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## firetown

> *Rhesus:*
> 
> *Rh-* was common in both Proto-Indo-Europeans and hunter-gatherers, but not in Neolithic farmers:
> 
> http://mathii.github.io/2017/09/21/b...ancient-europe
> 
> "(...) It turns out that the O allele is at high frequency in hunter-gatherers, but relatively rare on the Steppe. The B allele seems to be absent in both hunter-gatherers and early farmers, and seems to be introduced from the steppe in the Bronze Age.* The Rh- allele seems to be relatively common in hunter-gatherers and, particularly, in steppe populations*, and relatively rare in early farmers, partly confirming Haldane and Cavalli-Sforza’s hypotheses. Allele frequency estimates are in the figures below (bars show 95% binomial confidence intervals). (...)"
> 
> "(...) If we compute expected phenotypic frequencies, this suggests that around around 65% of Mesolithic hunter-gatherers would have been type O, compared to around 40% in present-day Europeans, and *around 40% of Steppe-ancestry individuals would have been Rh-, compared to around 24% of hunter-gatherers, 4% of early farmers, and about 16% of present-day Europeans.* (...)"
> ...


The high frequencies of rh negatives back then in pockets of Sardinia and Lappland are interesting and not surprising though today the frequencies tend to be quite low. I have recently looked into frequencies of rh negatives amongst individuals with haplogroup V and the results of rh negatives there were quite high. I am curious if you have any type of explanation of your own for this.

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## hrvat22

> How do you determine where the negative comes from? Is it the male?


My distant ancestors (female or male) must have a negative blood type and now I have it myself.

Nothing special except that I am above average smart and handsome.

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## Ziober

> My distant ancestors (female or male) must have a negative blood type and now I have it myself.
> 
> Nothing special except that I am above average smart and handsome.


LOL, Me too, AB -

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## hrvat22

> LOL, Me too, AB -


There are less of us in the world but we are smart and handsome.

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## Ziober

Being AB- seems you could receive any blood type for a first time, then you could create antibodys

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## firetown

> Being AB- seems you could receive any blood type for a first time, then you could create antibodys


True if you have never been in contact with rh positive blood. But be careful: If your mother is rh positive, blood could have mixed while you were in the womb causing you to be born with the antibodies.

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## Ziober

If I could born with antibodies in the test would leave positive, isn't it? so I think I haven't any antibody

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## firetown

Yes, you would test positive in the antibody screening.

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## Jovialis

I'll find out in about 6 weeks.

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## firetown

> You could be right. Mine was guesstimated from those raw data apps. So it could be mostly wrong. My mom says shes O- as far as she recalls from her last bloodwork. If I am AB- then I presume(assuming you got the right idea) that one is A the other B? I just know my moms Rh- for sure and my father Rh+. My moms womb did not reject me as is the case with Rh- women. So I assume I am Rh- given that my 2 sisters who also had a normal birth are Rh-. my mother needed some type of medication to keep her body from attacking my other 2 siblings who are Rh+ like my father. Is the raw data conversion app for eye color hair, and bloodtype accurate? If so, I imagine the prediction is correct.


Most data is outdated. First of all, if you are the firstborn, it could be that you are also Rh+ but since your mother hasn't carried antibodies yet, her pregnancy with you turned out well without the shot.
As for the AB- question: Your mom could easily be type O if your father is cisAB meaning the A and B alleles being encoded into one allele.

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## firetown

> Rh blood groups in modern Europe (look at this high frequency of Rh- in Ukraine):
> 
> This maps shows frequencies of Rh+ (and low frequency of Rh+ *=* high of Rh-):


Interesting. But I am confused about the timeline. "Modern humans" as in today? I have never seen an official study regarding the Ukraine except the Wikipedia claim of around 14% rh negatives:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_...ion_by_country
According to the map part of Basque country has 50-55% rh negatives. I wouldn't be surprised if there were small communities like that, but have also yet to see an official study on it.

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## paul333

I am A+ Blood Group, as is my father, my brother and my son, Is it possible for one blood group to stay in generations of a persons single Y-Haplogroup or mtDNA haplogroup

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## firetown

> I am A+ Blood Group, as is my father, my brother and my son, Is it possible for one blood group to stay in generations of a persons single Y-Haplogroup or mtDNA haplogroup


It all depends. If you are for example homozygote AA and you don't marry someone blood type B, the A phenotype will be passed on. But if there is a B coupling with a recessive O, then the A will be "lost".

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## paul333

Thanks for the reply firetown,

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## stevenarmstrong

Not that anyone really cares, but since I haven't posted in a while: O+ :)

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## brianco

I am from the UK and B+. Apparently its current frequency is 8%.

Frequency:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloo...ion_by_country

Facts including Inheritance etc:
https://www.disabled-world.com/calcu...lood-chart.php

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## firetown

> Facts including Inheritance etc:
> https://www.disabled-world.com/calcu...lood-chart.php


Sadly, the information on that page is outdated as it is quite possible for example for an AB and O couple to have children with blood types AB and O if in fact the AB parent is what is called cisAB:




> When one parent carries a Cis AB allele, the other allele can be any of O, A or B and the phenotype of this parent is always AB, but the children will inherit either the AB or the other allele from this parent.
> 
> 
> If the other parent is O phenotype (OO genotype) there are three possible scenarios for the blood group of children of a Cis AB carrier (and a 4th very unlikely scenario):
> The second allele is O: children are either *AB* or *O*Second allele is A: Children are either *AB* or ASecond allele is B: Children are either *AB* or BA very rare 4th possibility exists: if the other allele is also Cis AB then the children will be always AB irrespective whatever the other parent is, because they will have one cis AB allele from this parent. If the other parent is type A, depending on whether this parent is genotypically AA or AO and what the other allele is in the Cis Ab carrying parent, the following scenarios are possible:
> Other parent is AO and second allele is O: The children are either AB or A or *O*Other parent is AA and the second allele is O: The children are either AB or AOther parent is AO and second allele is A: The children are either AB or AOther parent is AA and the second allele is A: The children are either AB or AOther parent is AO and the second allele is B: The children are either AB or BOther parent is AA and the second allele is B: The children are always ABRare situation: If the other allele is also cis AB:The children are always AB Likewise, there will be similar scenarios for the other parent being type B:
> Other parent is BO and second allele is O: The children are either AB or B or *O*Other parent is BO and second allele is A: The children are either AB or AOther parent is BO and the second allele is B: The children are always AB or BOther parent is BB and the second allele is B: The children are either AB or BOther parent is BB and the second allele is O: The children are either AB or BOther parent is BB and the second allele is A: The children are always ABRare situation: If the other allele is also cis AB:The children are always AB 
> 
> (_Caution: ABO inheritance is generally derived assuming the children are not the very rare Bombay phenotype which would require both parents to be carriers of it._)

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## Jovialis

Just found out my blood type is A+

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## New Englander

Im B-, Seems to be more common in East Asia, but had some hot spots in Central Europe. All in all, I wouldent put to much into it. Its like Haplogroups, just a part of the puzzle.

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## Dibran

How do you determine whether its Rh+ or Rh-? The app does not seem to specify.

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## firetown

> How do you determine whether its Rh+ or Rh-? The app does not seem to specify.


Which app?

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## firetown

> Im B-, Seems to be more common in East Asia, but had some hot spots in Central Europe. All in all, I wouldent put to much into it. Its like Haplogroups, just a part of the puzzle.


Right... if the puzzle gets too difficult, just throw the pieces into the garbage and forget about it.  :Embarrassment:

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## Dibran

> Which app?


https://dna.frieger.com/calc-heredity.php

Doesnt say whether its positive or negative

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## firetown

> https://dna.frieger.com/calc-heredity.php
> 
> Doesnt say whether its positive or negative


Sorry, first time I have seen the app. What exactly does it do? Give you the ABO most likely to be yours according to genome?

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## eastara

> Very interesting. Thanks for posting, Tomenable.
> 
> The role of Rh+ is still unclear but it has been linked to protection against toxoplasmosis (passed on by cats). So cat lovers had better be Rh+.


Just found something interesting, in fact being Rh-heterozygote is protective not against toxoplasmosis in general, but diminished the negative effects, one of which is the slowing of reflexes.

As it is mentioned in the above study:
_This high frequency in Europe has long been surprising because the Rh- phenotype has an obviously deleterious effect. In particular, if an Rh- mother has an Rh+ child (because the child inherited a Rh+ allele from its father), then it’s possible for the mother to produce antibodies against the Rh+ antigen leading to haemolytic disease and severe illness for the for the child. There are three common explanations for the high frequency of the Rh- allele. First, there might be some (unknown) beneficial effect of the Rh-allele. Effects like this related to malaria resistance are what drive the high frequencies of the sickle cell trait and many thalassemias. On the other hand, no obvious selective advantage is known, there are no obvious genomic signals of selection on the Rh- allele, and if there were a selective advantage to the Rh- allele then we might ask why it hasn’t fixed, since once the Rh- frequency rose above 50%, it would be selected for, rather than against._ 
In fact the following study makes some intriguing suggestions.

*Toxoplasma and reaction time: role of toxoplasmosisin the origin, preservation and geographical distributionof Rh blood group polymorphism


*https://web.natur.cuni.cz/flegr/pdf/rh.pdf

SUMMARYThe RhD protein which is the RHD gene product and a major component of the Rh blood group system carries thestrongest blood group immunogen, the D-antigen. This antigen is absent in a significant minority of the human population(RhD-negatives) due to RHD deletion or alternation. The origin and persistence of this RhD polymorphism is an oldevolutionary enigma. Before the advent of modern medicine, the carriers of the rarer allele (e.g. RhD-negative women inthe population of RhD-positives or RhD-positive men in the population of RhD-negatives) were at a disadvantage as someof their children (RhD-positive children born to pre-immunized RhD-negative mothers) were at a higher risk of foetal ornewborn death or health impairment from haemolytic disease. Therefore, the RhD-polymorphism should be unstable,unless the disadvantage of carriers of the locally less abundant allele is counterbalanced by, for example, higher viability ofthe heterozygotes. Here we demonstrated for the first time that among Toxoplasma-free subjects the RhD-negative menhad faster reaction times than Rh-positive subjects and showed that heterozygous men with both the RhD plus and RhDminus alleles were protected against prolongation of reaction times caused by infection with the common protozoan parasiteToxoplasma gondii. Our results suggest that the balancing selection favouring heterozygotes could explain the origin andstability of the RhD polymorphism. Moreover, an unequal prevalence of toxoplasmosis in different countries could explainpronounced differences in frequencies of RhD-negative phenotype in geographically distinct populations.
_
It is possible that the better psychomotorperformance of RhD-negative subjects in theToxoplasma-free population could be the reason forspreading of the ‘d allele’ (deletion) in the Europeanpopulation. In contrast to the situation in Africa andcertain (but not all) regions of Asia, the abundance ofwild cats (definitive hosts of Toxoplasma gondii) inthe European territory was very low before the adventof the domestic cat (Torrey and Yolken, 1995).Therefore, the prevalence of latent toxoplasmosisin the prehistoric European population was alsoprobably negligible. Currently, the frequency ofRhD-negative subjects in the Caucasian population(with about 30% prevalence of toxoplasmosis) isabout 20% while in the African population with avery high prevalence of toxoplasmosis (RoeverBonnet,1972) it is only 5% (Daniels, 2002).Theoretically, we could expect the decrease of theRhD-minus allele in the European population afterthe advent of the domestic cat; however, this eventwas relatively recent and probably coincided withrelaxation of many forms of natural selection.The protective effect of RhD against theToxoplasma-induced impairment of psychomotorperformance could explain not only the differencesin frequency of RhD-negative subjects in toxoplasmosis-lowand toxoplasmosis-high regions,but also the origin and primary spreading of RHDgene (RHCED duplication) in our African ancestors.A comparison of mean reaction times betweeninfected dd homozygotes and Dd heterozygotesshows that the protective effect of the RhD genotypeon Toxoplasma-induced reaction time changes isrelatively strong._
_Reaction times play an importantrole in interactions with prey and predators as well asin intraspecies combats. In our evolutionary past,the frequency of toxoplasmosis in populations ofour ancestors was probably rather high due to consumptionof raw or undercooked meat and generallylower hygiene standards. Under such conditions, theRhD heterozygotes with the shortest reaction timeswere probably favoured by natural and sexualselection, which could only partly be counterbalancedby the selection against RhD-negativewomen with lower reproductive success.

_If I understand correctly Rh negative individuals due to their better psychomotor performance had a distinct advantage in hand to hand combats and in warrior societies. Hence the high incidents of Rh- among Yamnaya people could have helped them conquer the neolithic farmers ( who were largely Rh positive).

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## firetown

> [/I]If I understand correctly Rh negative individuals due to their better psychomotor performance had a distinct advantage in hand to hand combats and in warrior societies. Hence the high incidents of Rh- among Yamnaya people could have helped them conquer the neolithic farmers ( who were largely Rh positive).


Interesting. I have worked with Prof. Flegr on this study:
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/art...l.pone.0141362
(Mike Dammann is my name)
Do you have any more data on the Yamnaya people being high in rh negative blood? Would love to look at it.

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## eastara

> Interesting. I have worked with Prof. Flegr on this study:
> http://journals.plos.org/plosone/art...l.pone.0141362
> (Mike Dammann is my name)
> Do you have any more data on the Yamnaya people being high in rh negative blood? Would love to look at it.


Тhat is the paradox - Rh- people have numerous health problems compared to Rh+, but this harmful mutation is still widely spread. The conclusion is that it must have some unknown benefits, which the study with toxoplasma link is trying to explain.

The Yamnaya Rh status was extracted from the published ancient genomes as is mentioned in the initial study. Maybe there is more data since, if somebody could mine it from there.
http://mathii.github.io/2017/09/21/b...ancient-europe

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## /Serg/

I have a Rh+ and my predecessors lived in a circle in a first picture.
The haplogroup R1A increased here mainly because of a milk lactation.

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## firetown

> Тhat is the paradox - Rh- people have numerous health problems compared to Rh+, but this harmful mutation is still widely spread. The conclusion is that it must have some unknown benefits, which the study with toxoplasma link is trying to explain.


I strongly suspect rh negatives being more sensitive towards whatever is bad for people in general and wouldn't be surprised if before pollution, cancer etc., they might have actually been better off than the rest. There could be many other factors such as sex drive as shown in our study. Off hand I can think of a couple of studies showing very low frequencies among HIV patients. 

I believe the world as a whole is unhealthy which affects rh negatives more. And who knows, if food was healthier etc., it is quite possible that our overall health might actually better than that of the average person.

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## Joey37

My dad being negative is the only oddity in the family, as everyone else is O positive. But then we've got a lot of Irish blood; it's the only ancestry my mother and father have in common. With my dad being the universal donor, he gave blood a lot when I was a kid.

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## firetown

> My dad being negative is the only oddity in the family, as everyone else is O positive. But then we've got a lot of Irish blood; it's the only ancestry my mother and father have in common. With my dad being the universal donor, he gave blood a lot when I was a kid.


I find your mtDNA interesting. Close to:

J1c2e : found in northern and central Europe, among the Basques, and in Iran (Persians)

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## firetown

> Rh blood groups in modern Europe (look at this high frequency of Rh- in Ukraine):
> 
> This maps shows frequencies of Rh+ (and low frequency of Rh+ *=* high of Rh-):


Could you link me to the page where this image is from and/or let me know exactly which ybp we are talking about.

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## firetown

Attachment 10354
I have been reading through the site referenced in your image. The above one strikes out. Where exactly do they say that the other +50 percent region is located. Are they referencing the ancient Hebrews?
I am of course using translator to read through it, but still a lot of it is messing up, so it would be great if you could clarify a couple of things for me.

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## Wheal

@firetown--I was second born, 7 children raised to adulthood, none are negative. My father's brother was O- and my mother-in-law's 1/2 brother is O-

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## Joey37

> I find your mtDNA interesting. Close to:
> 
> J1c2e : found in northern and central Europe, among the Basques, and in Iran (Persians)


That's not all. At the 15452 marker at the ancestral R2'JT level, I have a reversion to the original T where the descendants have A.

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## Elizabeth60

> I find your mtDNA interesting. Close to:
> 
> J1c2e : found in northern and central Europe, among the Basques, and in Iran (Persians)


J1c specifically is very high in Northern Europe. I've had my Full Mitchondrial Sequencing done at FTDNA. I'm specifically J1c3f and outside of Ireland the majority of my matches are in Norway and Sweden. I also have a 1step match with someone in the Russian Federation.

Apparently J1c's success in Northern Europe could be due to better heat production.

Here's a table showing J1c's distribution



Also I'm the only O in my family and the rest were all A. All Irish.

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## firetown

> J1c specifically is very high in Northern Europe.


According to
https://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_J_mtDNA.shtml
J1c2b
specifically is found on the British isles. Island speciation?




> Here's a table showing J1c's distribution


Thank you. Do you have a link to a larger image of it?



> Also I'm the only O in my family and the rest were all A. All Irish.


I can see that with Ireland being one of the countries with highest percentages of blood type O. Positive or negative?

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## bigsnake49

> Mine is B+ blood type.


Same here, wife B-

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