# Europe Forum > European Culture & History > European food and recipes >  Why don't the French drink fresh milk?

## TheCaptain

Just a simple question...

France is world-famous for its food culture and high standards. But every time I am in France and go to the supermarkets, I'm shocked that I so hard to find fresh milk. They only have UHT (long-life) milk, which tastes disgusting...  :Vomitting: 

In many countries, for instance the Nordic countries and the UK, people always drink fresh milk and would never dream of buying UHT milk...

The French appreciate fresh vegetables, bread etc., but apparently not milk? How can that be?  :Thinking:

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## Maciamo

Same in Belgium. You *can* usually find fresh milk in any supermarket's refrigerators, but UHT milk is much more common because it's much easier to keep at home. There is less waste. With fresh milk you have to go shopping every 2 or 3 days or you have to hurry to finish bottles before they go bad. I only drank fresh milk when I lived in the UK or Japan, but personally I don't think there is a big difference of taste. But I never drink milk alone, only with cereals, or for cooking (pancakes, pudding, etc.).

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## TheCaptain

I just found these statistics:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle2658175.ece

UHT milk as a percentage of total consumption: 

Austria 20.3 
Belgium 96.7 
Czech Rep 71.4 
Denmark 0.0 
Finland 2.4 
France 95.5 
Germany 66.1 
Greece 0.9 
Hungary 35.1 
Ireland 10.9 
Italy 49.8 
Netherlands 20.2 
Norway 5.3 
Poland 48.6 
Portugal 92.9 
Slovakia 35.5 
Spain 95.7 
Sweden 5.5 
Switzerland 62.8
Britain 8.4 

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Maybe it's just a cultural difference...

I guess we Scandinavians drink a lot of milk compared to other countries. And the fresh milk is sold in 1 litre cartons, which easily can be drunk in 3 or 4 days before it goes bad. So there is no need for UHT milk. 

Moreover, most of us go shopping every 2 or 3 days (or even every day), because we want our milk (and bread) to be as fresh as possible  :Smiling:

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## Minty

I prefer long life milk over fresh milk, which has a stinky taste for me! :47:

This coming from a person who eats cheese very often and you know a lot of the cheese here have a strong smell! :45:

My Japanese friend even told me that the food I had chosen (that had goat cheese on it) was not food for human!  :Red face: 

And still isn't… :Told you so: 

I doubt his taste has suddenly changed in such short period of time especially that he went home already!

Lastly, it is true that I don't drink a lot of milk!

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## Marianne

> UHT milk as a percentage of total consumption: 
> 
> Austria 20.3 
> Belgium 96.7 
> Czech Rep 71.4 
> Denmark 0.0 
> Finland 2.4 
> France 95.5 
> Germany 66.1 
> ...


I was ready to post that Greeks don't like this milk at all when I saw this list that confirmed it. However I didn't expect that Greece would have one of the lowest percentages!

Long life milk is really unpopular here. Fresh milk is usually the only type of milk sold in super/mini markets and only the biggest supermarkets sell UHT milk. There are only 2 brands of UHT milk and the last 2 years they are spending crazy amounts of money for advertisement to attract more people, but I don't think there are any results :P

The same applies for vegetables, fish and other types of food. Fresh ones are the most popular, while the deep frozen/ready-to-eat salads/meals sold at the big supermarkets will stay at the shelves for ever. 
I was surprised by how many people were buying such products when i was in Germany. The first time I ate such a salad was there and I didn't really like it. I can't understand how people trust the companies that make them that the vegetables are well washed and of good quality...

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## Miss Marple's nephew

There is a general belief, here in Sweden, that people of southern Europe dont drink milk because their stomach cant take it. A genetic hereditary thing, I suppose - not to say that it is actualy true - though I suppose that it might be.

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## Marianne

This is half true.
It is true that Southern Europeans have the highest lactose intolerance in Europe and northern ones the lowest http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactose_intolerance .
My mother has this problem also since she was a teenager, but me, my father and brother don't.
What is not true is that we don't drink milk. I don't know about Spanish or Italians but Greeks, I can assure you, love milk. We drink it like crazy, an hour later after opening time you can see employees restocking the shelves with milk at the supermarkets! 
Companies that produce milk, also sell fresh milk with 70% less lactose which is suitable for people with lactose intolerance, causing no problems to their stomach. 
My mother buys such milk and she says it doesn't affect her stomach like normal milk does. Its expiration date is the same as normal milk, 2-3 days or so. I've tried it and it tastes like normal milk.
So with or without lactose intolerance, Greeks drink tons of milk.

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## Maciamo

> There is a general belief, here in Sweden, that people of southern Europe dont drink milk because their stomach cant take it. A genetic hereditary thing, I suppose - not to say that it is actualy true - though I suppose that it might be.


Scandinavians and Dutch people have the highest lactose tolerance (95 to 99%). However I doubt that this has any influence on UHT vs fresh milk preference. Belgians drink UHT and are also 95% lactose tolerant. Greeks only drink fresh milks, like Danes, despite the big discrepancy in lactose tolerance.

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## TheCaptain

Here is another question:

Why is it that they don't refrigerate eggs in many countries? I have always thought that eggs should be kept in the refrigerator all the time...

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## Miss Marple's nephew

> .....with or without lactose intolerance, Greeks drink tons of milk.





> ..... Belgians drink UHT and are also 95% lactose tolerant.


I have a sudden urge to go to the nearest pub to drink a *White Russian*!  :Heart:  Anyone care to join me?  :Smile:

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## Marianne

Sure, if it wasn't for this beach party I have to go tonight :P

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## Miss Marple's nephew

:Sad 2:  :Sad 2:  :Sad 2:

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## Maciamo

> Here is another question:
> Why is it that they don't refrigerate eggs in many countries? I have always thought that eggs should be kept in the refrigerator all the time...


I have always kept eggs in the refrigerator. But it's true that supermarkets here keep them outside refrigerators.

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## Mycernius

> I have always kept eggs in the refrigerator. But it's true that supermarkets here keep them outside refrigerators.


Pretty much the same in the UK

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## marrabel

Eggs should definitely be kept in refrigerators,but there are not many supermarkets, it is better to say that there are a few of them which keep them in refs. Isn't it the disturbance of the sanitary code?

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## Carlitos

It is more practical to store in long-lasting milk house be having to go to buy more fresh milk has a lot of fat. Only skimmed milk consumption, except a couple of times a year that fresh milk consumption in Spain is consuming more long-lasting milk, as for breakfast or snacks usually drink milk with coffee.

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## marrabel

Coffee with milk is tasty, isn't it? Long-lasting milk is more practical, maybe.

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## Grizzly

It would be indeed paradoxical for the French, since they are found of raw-milk cheese.

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## Invictus_88

> Just a simple question...
> France is world-famous for its food culture and high standards. But every time I am in France and go to the supermarkets, I'm shocked that I so hard to find fresh milk. They only have UHT (long-life) milk, which tastes disgusting... 
> In many countries, for instance the Nordic countries and the UK, people always drink fresh milk and would never dream of buying UHT milk...
> The French appreciate fresh vegetables, bread etc., but apparently not milk? How can that be?


You're probably comparing UHT milk with pasteurised homogenised milk, which seems to be the norm for Northern Europe. I agree that UHT can be an unpleasant surprise for people used to pasteurised homogenised milk.

In France in most supermarkets I go to in the south-centre of France one can buy UHT milk, but also "_lait cru_", which is even less prolonged-life milk than pasteurised homogenised milk. In contrast to UHT/pasteurised/homogenised milk, lait cru is _entirely_ raw and hasn't been altered since leaving the cow.

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## Invictus_88

> Eggs should definitely be kept in refrigerators,but there are not many supermarkets, it is better to say that there are a few of them which keep them in refs. Isn't it the disturbance of the sanitary code?


Eggs ought to be kept in a dry place, but the inside of a fridge tends to have a level of humidity higher than a cupboard. They also ought to be kept away from other smells or flavours, such as one usually finds in a fridge.

There's not much point putting eggs in the fridge.

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## Wilhelm

> There is a general belief, here in Sweden, that people of southern Europe dont drink milk because their stomach cant take it. A genetic hereditary thing, I suppose - not to say that it is actualy true - though I suppose that it might be.


Here is a lactose tolerance map. Iberia has the same tolerance as Finland or Balts :

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## Grizzly

> Iberia has the same tolerance as Finland or Balts

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## Grizzly

Another map :




Western africans have the same tolerance as the Scandinavians...

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## Carlitos

Right now I just drink a glass of skim milk with cocoa very long time, does that mean the event that I have an affinity with monkeys?

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## Wilhelm

> 


I don't know what is so funny. It's from this study : 

http://www.nature.com/ng/journal/v35...ng1263_ft.html

" (*c*) Geographic distribution of the lactase persistence allele in contemporary Europeans. The darker the orange color, the higher is the frequency of the lactase persistence allele. The dashed black line indicates the limits of the geographic distribution of early Neolithic cattle pastoralist (Funnel Beaker Culture) inferred from archaeological data15 "

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## Grizzly

It makes me laugh for two reasons :

- you always want to link Spain with northern areas of Europe
- according to the second map that I've posted, the darker colour of Spain seems rather to come from an African influence that any connection with the Baltic sea.

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## Carlitos

> It makes me laugh for two reasons :
> 
> - you always want to link Spain with northern areas of Europe
> - according to the second map that I've posted, the darker colour of Spain seems rather to come from an African influence that any connection with the Baltic sea.


 Maybe the same thing happens in Spain, but other way around, that Europeans in particular Western Europe always try to relate to Spain to Africa and yet it revealed that despite the proximity of Spain to Africa in the Spanish sense Africa is farther than America May be the reason for the obsession of some Spanish and Spanish to show that the similarities are in any way whatsoever with Northern Europe, however I believe that with our large and splendid Spanish culture we do not have to prove anything to anyone, we and Spanish only, we are not Vikings nor African.

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## LeBrok

[QUOTE=Grizzly;363797]It makes me laugh for two reasons :

- you always want to link Spain with northern areas of Europe
QUOTE]

You noticed that too, I'm not crazy then.  :Good Job:

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## LeBrok

> Maybe the same thing happens in Spain, but other way around, that Europeans in particular Western Europe always try to relate to Spain to Africa and yet it revealed that despite the proximity of Spain to Africa in the Spanish sense Africa is farther than America May be the reason for the obsession of some Spanish and Spanish to show that the similarities are in any way whatsoever with Northern Europe, however I believe that with our large and splendid Spanish culture we do not have to prove anything to anyone, we and Spanish only, we are not Vikings nor African.


Yes, spot on Carlitos! We love Iberians for whatever they are. Doesn't matter what you believe in and how you look, you are 100% European and no need to prove anything.

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## Cambrius (The Red)

Iberian autosomal DNA studies indicate only minor affinities with North Africa. The most recent cluster maps produced by Dienekes (limited but increasing samples) and others show Iberians with very high Southern European and Northern European affinities, like other population groups from the western end of Europe. Spaniards and Portuguese are mainstream Western Europeans. Hardly surprising...

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## ^ lynx ^

@ Wilhelm and Cambria Red. You guys are really an easy target for the usual trolls in this forum. 

You always get trap in the same bait, over and over and over again. It's amazing.


Greetings.

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## Wilhelm

> It makes me laugh for two reasons :
> 
> - you always want to link Spain with northern areas of Europe
> - according to the second map that I've posted, the darker colour of Spain seems rather to come from an African influence that any connection with the Baltic sea.


You are either stupid or you don't want to face the truth : It's not from me , it's from this study :

http://www.nature.com/ng/journal/v35...ng1263_ft.html

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## Carlitos

Western Europeans are the Spanish, I'm from the West, Western, Western, and I give a damn the German wikipedia.

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## ^ lynx ^

Yes mexiCarlitos, certainly you're from the West, Western, Western... *Latin America* is far nearer to the West than any european country (thanks God for that).



 :Good Job:

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## Drac

> It makes me laugh for two reasons :
> 
> - you always want to link Spain with northern areas of Europe
> - according to the second map that I've posted, the darker colour of Spain seems rather to come from an African influence that any connection with the Baltic sea.


It makes me laugh as well because according to your own map France has a darker color than Spain, thus suggesting more of that "African influence" you absurdly claim is the culprit.

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## Carlitos

And just need to quit saying Napoleon: Africa begins at the Pyrenees!, please nineteenth century these maps are not effective and are a waste of maps that are determined to give Spain an African character which has neither Spain nor feel, because we have our own character and idiosyncrasies unique and unrepeatable.

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## Drac

> And just need to quit saying Napoleon: Africa begins at the Pyrenees!,


Don't worry, the English gave the French a taste of their own "wisecrack" when they coined the phrase "Ni**ers begin at Calais"  :Laughing:

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## rensen

> There is a general belief, here in Sweden, that people of southern Europe dont drink milk because their stomach cant take it. A genetic hereditary thing, I suppose - not to say that it is actualy true - though I suppose that it might be.


I read up on that somewhere as well. Its got to do with some enzyme in the stomach that western europe doesn't produce as often as peopel from the north. So maybe thats the reason for not drinking so much fresh milk, as its harder for them to digest it?!

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## Carlitos

Suecos: 1 %
Ingleses: 6 %
Rusos: 15 %
Espaoles: 15 %
rabes: 80 %
Esquimales: 83 %
Mexicanos: 83 %
Africanos centrales: 83 %
Tailandeses: 98 %

*Intolerancia a la lactosa.*

*A qu sabr la leche de camella?, me encantara probarla, debe ser tan diferente a la de vaca, cabra u oveja, tambin pienso en la leche de cangura, pero me dan nuseas slo pensar en que me estoy comiendo un flan con leche de cangura, qu asco!, no debe estar mal la leche de bisonte americana y la de pantera tiene que ser flipante, no s si algn humano habr probado alguna vez la leche de pantera, pero debe pegar un subidn un chupito.*

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## Grizzly

> You are either stupid or you don't want to face the truth : It's not from me , it's from this study :
> 
> http://www.nature.com/ng/journal/v35...ng1263_ft.html


You are either stupid or you don't want to face the truth : it's not from me, it's from this map : saying that Spain the same rate as the Balts, is like saying that Western Africans have the same rate as Scandinavia. Arithmetically right, but no link anyway.

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## Wilhelm

> You are either stupid or you don't want to face the truth : it's not from me, it's from this map : saying that Spain the same rate as the Balts, is like saying that Western Africans have the same rate as Scandinavia. Arithmetically right, but no link anyway.


*You don't understand. When Miss Marple said that there was a divide in north/south Europe with lactose intolerance it's when I pointed out the Iberia has same lactose tolerants than some parts of northern Europe, which is true, as seen in my map and yours. I didn't said we are Nordics if that is what worries you. 
*

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## Grizzly

> *You don't understand. When Miss Marple said that there was a divide in north/south Europe with lactose intolerance it's when I pointed out the Iberia has same lactose tolerants than some parts of northern Europe, which is true, as seen in my map and yours. I didn't said we are Nordics if that is what worries you. 
> *


Thanks to appease my anxiety. By the way, this division north/south is fictive (ex : Scandinavia...and Spain). That was my point.

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## Grizzly

> Don't worry, the English gave the French a taste of their own "wisecrack" when they coined the phrase "Ni**ers begin at Calais"


And the Germans have the same "taste" for them : Inselaffe (Island monkeys)...I didn't check, but I'm sure that we can find other ones about America...

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## Grizzly

> It makes me laugh as well because according to your own map France has a darker color than Spain, thus suggesting more of that "African influence" you absurdly claim is the culprit.


Yes, same thing for Sweden, Norway, Denmark and so on...

Even it would be right about France, it would let me completely indifferent. Apparently, not for everybody.

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