# General Discussion > Opinions >  Do Animals Have Emotions? A Debate

## Jovialis

> Do non-human animals such as cats, dogs, and chimpanzees have emotions such as happiness, sadness, fear, and anger? What kind of reasoning is required to justify the judgment that animals have emotions? Here is a dialogue between an advocate of animal emotions and a skeptic.
> 
> *Advocate*: It is obvious that humans are not the only animals that have emotions. Anyone who is ever had a pet cat or dog knows that feeding them and petting them makes them happy, whereas dangers make them afraid and angry.
> 
> *Skeptic*: Not so fast. There is no doubt that such animals can be rewarded and threatened, but their behavior is no guarantee that they are experiencing the emotions that people have.
> 
> *Advocate*: Your skepticism is bizarre. It reminds me of the philosophical problem of other minds, where a skeptic says: I know that I have a mind, but how can I possibly know that anyone else has a mind?
> 
> *Skeptic*: The parallel between arguments about other human minds and ones about animal minds is not good, because other people are much more similar to you than are cats and dogs. Can you provide a more substantial argument?
> ...


I do believe that certain higher-order thinking animals have emotions. Perhaps not as advanced as humans, but to at least some degree.

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## firetown

I am 100 percent sure animals do feel emotions. But maybe on different levels. So if you are asking for example about insects... good question.

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## davef

If physiological mechanisms in the brain isn't enough for the skeptic, then what else does he want? I guess the only way he'll ever be convinced is if he becomes a dog himself.

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## bicicleur

a dog has emotions, but it is induced by what happens here and now, no memory
if the situation here and now changes, the emotion of the dog changes too, immeadiately

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## LeBrok

I guess skeptic never had a dog or is a terrible observer.
Animals have emotions. The closer an animal to human evolutionary tree, the more similar are the emotions. For example we have more similar emotions with dogs than with crocodiles, and the most similar with chimps. Emotions are part of instinct that makes us and animals do the "right" things to survive.

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## firetown

I have just had a convo with fellow travelers about traumatic experiences. And maybe this will give the illusion about me having "first world problems", but so be it. It is when in 2004 I drove in San Diego through pouring rain at night and I accidentally killed a duck. I have not had duck meat since though Chinese food is my favorite. I feel guilty to this day.

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## Angela

Even for first worlders, beate te as we say, that this is the most traumatic event you've ever experienced.

I'm gathering you haven't spent much time on a working farm.

Well, to be fair, I've never wrung the necks of the chickens or bopped the rabbits over the head, but I've certainly seen it done, and it doesn't stop me from eating them. I, like my mother, have, however, always managed to be elsewhere when it comes time to butcher the pigs.

I have no qualms about fishing, and watching them flop around, but I just can't eat venison. Maybe I watched bambi too many times. :)

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## davef

Veal is off my list after reading how it's prepared.

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## bicicleur

As a very young man I once shot a rabbit with a hunters gun I had borrowed. I had seen it out in the snow. I went out wearing only pyama trouwsers and was bare foot and bare chested out there. The rabbit started running and I shot and it fell down in the snow. I felt very tough untill I approached the rabbit which was still half alive. Then I felt sorry and I didn't know what to do any more. I finished the rabbit and I burried it in a proper place, feeling very sorry.

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## davef

> I guess skeptic never had a dog or is a terrible observer.
> Animals have emotions. The closer an animal to human evolutionary tree, the more similar are the emotions. For example we have more similar emotions with dogs than with crocodiles, and the most similar with chimps. Emotions are part of instinct that makes us and animals do the "right" things to survive.


Tbh hopefully he'll never own a pet.

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## Dretsend

Well, I am an animal and do have emotions...my bigger brain makes me no less animal and doubt that mankind started feeling with evolution...

In fact, fear is a primary emotion, almost reptilian, isn't it?

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## Jovialis

> Well, I am an animal and do have emotions...my bigger brain makes me no less animal and doubt that mankind started feeling with evolution...
> In fact, fear is a primary emotion, almost reptilian, isn't it?


I think the part I have italicized below is the weakest part of the "skeptic's" argument. Because perhaps our own emotions are just advanced versions of these reward and threat mechanisms. An important question is, "what is emotion?". Nevertheless, I think what could be considered, proper "emotion" requires a more complex feeling beyond it. However, I believe reward and threat mechanisms are the rudimentary part of it. Perhaps social animals that can experience a sense of jealousy are a good indication of where emotional behavior can be identified. Animals like dogs, have been observed to experience jealousy.

_Skeptic: But wait, you neglect the fundamental principle of inference to the best explanation that you have to consider alternative hypotheses. For cats and dogs, we can explain their behaviors merely on the basis of reward mechanisms and threat response mechanisms that operate in all animals, including humans. When a cat is purring or a dog is wagging its tail, this response results from neural activity in its reward centers such as the nucleus accumbens. When a cat is yowling or a dog is growling, this results from neural activity in its threat detection centers such as the amygdala. These explanations are much simpler than making the additional assumption that cats and dogs are actually experiencing emotions of happiness and fear. Unlike people, pets cannot tell us that they are happy or anxious. 
_

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## davef

IMO we probably feel the same as any other animal when we're rewarded or frightened, it's just that a lot of what makes us happy, upset, or frightened aren't things that certain other species can understand.

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## LeBrok

> Well, I am an animal and do have emotions...my bigger brain makes me no less animal and doubt that mankind started feeling with evolution...
> 
> In fact, *fear is a primary emotion,* almost reptilian, isn't it?


 So is feeling of hunger and sexual desire. Nature way of telling animals what is most important for them. Three goals in life: eat, survive, multiply. 
Basically, there are two types of emotions. One group of emotions that create feeling of discomfort and pain, to tell us what to avoid. Second group of emotions of feeling pleasure and satisfaction, of what to embrace and long for in life.

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## LeBrok

> I think the part I have italicized below is the weakest part of the "skeptic's" argument. Because perhaps our own emotions are just advanced versions of these reward and threat mechanisms. An important question is, "what is emotion?". Nevertheless, I think what could be considered, proper "emotion" requires a more complex feeling beyond it. However, I believe reward and threat mechanisms are the rudimentary part of it. Perhaps social animals that can experience a sense of jealousy are a good indication of where emotional behavior can be identified. Animals like dogs, have been observed to experience jealousy.
> _Skeptic: But wait, you neglect the fundamental principle of inference to the best explanation that you have to consider alternative hypotheses. For cats and dogs, we can explain their behaviors merely on the basis of reward mechanisms and threat response mechanisms that operate in all animals, including humans. When a cat is purring or a dog is wagging its tail, this response results from neural activity in its reward centers such as the nucleus accumbens. When a cat is yowling or a dog is growling, this results from neural activity in its threat detection centers such as the amygdala. These explanations are much simpler than making the additional assumption that cats and dogs are actually experiencing emotions of happiness and fear. Unlike people, pets cannot tell us that they are happy or anxious. 
> _


Here is emotion of feeling injustice. Typical for group animals on higher evolutionary ladder. Thought for ages by many that these higher emotions are only human domain. Not anymore.

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## Jovialis

> So is feeling of hunger and sexual desire. Nature way of telling animals what is most important for them. Three goals in life: eat, survive, multiply. 
> Basically, there are two types of emotions. One group of emotions that create feeling of discomfort and pain, to tell us what to avoid. Second group of emotions of feeling pleasure and satisfaction, of what to embrace and long for in life.


I guess as with humans, since we live in complex social structures, we needed to evolve to have more complex emotions. Since certain things that cause us pain and discomfort; like working, need to be endured in order to receive the reward. While things that cause us pleasure, and satisfaction like substance abuse, need to be resisted in order to avoid the threat. Through our ability of reflection, and future planning; we needed to resist these feelings sometimes. Therefore, I think the more complex an animal's interaction with their social structure is, the more complex their emotions will be.

Maybe the more mental gymnastics it takes for an animal to identify reward and threat in relation to it's social structure, emotions become more intricate. Perhaps this is why some people have a tough time ironing out their wants and desires, because they get befuddled in identifying reward and threat.

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## LeBrok

> I guess as with humans, since we live in complex social structures, we needed to evolve to have more complex emotions. Since certain things that cause us pain and discomfort; like working, need to be endured in order to receive the reward.


 Perhaps emotion like "sense of duty" is only human one? Things/work has to be done. We feel satisfaction when job is done right, plan accomplished.
We can also endure pain and discomfort for future rewards, but it might not be only the human emotion. Dogs can do tricks for a treat afterwards, in the future.




> While things that cause us pleasure, and satisfaction like substance abuse, need to be resisted in order to avoid the threat. Through our ability of reflection, and future planning; we needed to resist these feelings sometimes. Therefore, I think the more complex an animal's interaction with their social structure is, the more complex their emotions will be.


It is certainly the case.




> Maybe the more mental gymnastics it takes for an animal to identify reward and threat in relation to it's social structure, emotions become more intricate. Perhaps this is why some people have a tough time ironing out their wants and desires, because they get befuddled in identifying reward and threat.


Environment is complex and often throws curve balls. Wanting to feel same pleasure again and again, like alcohol and other drug addictions, piggybacks on existing reward neuronal networks originally created for other stimuli, more organic vital ones.

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## Yetos

My dog surely does,

He has not only emotions,
but also he can think,
and distinguish good and bad,

he also can feel,
he has feelings with humans and other dogs,

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## Dagne

I completely agree with Yetos! My dog, too, not only that he has emotions, but I suspect that he can fake some emotions, too :)

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## bicicleur

my dog, he can count and add up
next I'll learn him to multiply and after that we'll start algebra

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## bicicleur

no, my dog, he has a high emotional intelligence, that is true

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## firetown

> I completely agree with Yetos! My dog, too, not only that he has emotions, but I suspect that he can fake some emotions, too :)


 I truly believe the dog me and my ex had and shared with another family was playing games with us. The dog was trained to crap outside but whenever she (the dog) returned from the other family, she would do it in the house. Somewhere in the corner. Then either snap at my ex or pretend to feel guilty. Everyone said we had the dumbest dog on earth, but I am truly convinced she was playing us all and had the last laugh on this one.

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## davef

When I save up I'll buy a cat and teach it to bark, and stand up while clapping. Lol. I'll name it Mr. Doghuggies.

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