# General Discussion > Opinions >  WW2 the first defeat of Axis.

## Yetos

!940, 

The 'new order' of that era wants Italy and Germany to expand their influence and land, AXIS
many European countries already under control of AXIS power
Molotov Ribbentrop pact is in use.
Spain under civil war with Franco, 
Bulgaria Romania and Hungary to cooperate if not join AXIS,
and some 'differences' among Croatia and Serbia which become stronger later on if should join AXIS or Allies.
and Greece although under a German friendly Dictator, 
hold neutral position, since the wounds from 1923 are heavy, and is unable and unwilling for a new war,
the inner problems, political and economical, are huge that time.

27 Octomber 1940 
Emmanuelle Grazzi makes a big diplomatic recption at Iatlian embassy, 
and confirms everybody about the 'love and interest' of Mussolini, about Greece and Greek people,

28 Octomber 1940
Grazzi at 03:00 visits suddendly and demands to see the dictator Metaxas
with a telegraph from Mussolini, asking Greece to allow Italian troops to march and take strategical positions and navy to control some ports.
the answer was *ΟΧΙ* Noand as Grazzi writes in his book 'Alos est la querre'

the following days Italian army attack from Albania Greece,
Albania already was under Italian control, since they gave willingly 'land and water'
that time Italy had a modern European army, were only the number of mortars was able to create fear to enemy,
yet Pindos and VIII Greek division Hold the line,

that hold gave time to 3rd Greek Army Corp to organised and attack at 22 November 1940 
at *24 November*, *Moschopolis* changes hands and is under Greek control, 

*Historically that is the first Victory of allies against Axis.
*
Later at 9 January and end of March 1940 Greek navy is patroling Otranto and Brindesi (Τριτων vs Neghelli, Τριτων vs Carnia)

*But it needed 6th of April to write a unique record
*at 6th april 1941 Greece writes another record,*
It is the only country at WW2 that faces the 2 big European AXIS power, and it is attacked by 5 AXIS armies, 
*4 regural and 1 guerrilla.ITALY
Germany
Bulgaria
Albania
and the Nazi friendly comittee of Fyrom

and that record does not stops there,*
Greece is also the first country that fought against Communism expansion and Stalin after the end of WW2
*Greek civil war 1945-1949

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## LABERIA

Yetos, you really belive in all this?

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## Yetos

> Yetos, you really belive in all this?


History is not faith, to believe,

accept it,

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## LABERIA

Yetos, your description of history is wrong. When Italy attacked Greece, was a war between Italy from one side and British Commonwealth from the other side.

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## Yetos

oh really? 
and attack who and when?

you wanna play again?

expecting dates and areas.

expecting your 'correct' description.

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## Yetos

what?

do you search the internet now?

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## LABERIA

> what?
> 
> do you search the internet now?


Yetos i am sorry but i have also other obligations.

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## LABERIA

> oh really? 
> and attack who and when?
> 
> you wanna play again?
> 
> expecting dates and areas.
> 
> expecting your 'correct' description.


What exactly you don't agree with my words?

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## Yetos

It is you who said that I am incorrect,

well Correct me, or stfu

The records that Greece achieved at WW2 are these as written at #1 
and you have nothing to prove that you are correct,

Sorry 'Ετσι ειναι η ζωη' hasta la vista

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## LABERIA

> It is you who said that I am incorrect,
> 
> well Correct me, or stfu
> 
> The records that Greece achieved at WW2 are these as written at #1 
> and you have nothing to prove that you are correct,
> 
> Sorry 'Ετσι ειναι η ζωη' hasta la vista


I explained my point. This story of greek superman fighting against half of the world is a BS. 



> Yetos, your description of history is wrong. When Italy attacked Greece, was a war between Italy from one side and British Commonwealth from the other side.


Do you agree or not with this?
You want more? You betrayed this your allies, you escaped from the battlefield. And stop with this stfu.

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## Angela

If I hear one more comment like the ones in the last few posts I'm closing the thread. I'm also going to issue infractions for inappropriate language, and the first one will go to Yetos since he is the one who started it. While I'm at it Yetos, maybe the whole thread is a provocation in your perpetual war against Albanians so you should get an infraction for that as well. 

Don't play games with me. I'm not in the mood.

Am I being clear enough? Cool off NOW!

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## Yetos

@ Angela.

First read correct what I wrote at post #1

then read what it is said, without accuracy dates or events or land areas,


I just wrote something Historical truths,
but someone want to provoke,
I am still expecting someone to correct me,
and if he can't I expect apolgies from him,
he can not accuse me of unaccurate posts, and then tell nothing or where I am wrong,
So I want to leave open the thread, until someone cooret me, 
or writes his apologies, and also I am expecting a moderator to act so quidance given to those who accuse of inaccuracy,

since you are in New York you know 28 October is the second most valuable day of Greeks,
and the day that 3 unique records started and achieved for WW2 records,

thank you for your interest,
but I am still waiting to find what is wrong about what I said, or apologies for accusing me,

History can not change,
and I am proud I was born such a day,
when all nation is proud and in good mood.
and free world won foundamental political powers,
and happened to see my daughter, the same day I am born, at the local celebration parade, wearing blue and white colours,

Now I open the thread, which I might continue at 6 April,
thanks to that Day, and try to make it as historical as can be,
all dates and events and records are true.
No provocating behavour, just historical facts,

the rest is up to you,
But I do not thing I must apologise neither for thread, 
neither for my words,
cause I wrote clearly WW2 facts,
search elsewhere provokating behavour.
and effort to 'rewrite' history.

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## Yetos

at 6 of April greece had to face the Nazism, after the fasists

just a song from a Swedish group




and that was the time that the new bron Greek state, of neo-Greeks to write History again
as the country with maybe the biggest casualties, (excluding Jews wich is another story)
and the longest time war, (maybe Tito's Pertisans might be longer)
so Greece is the only country that was attacked by both fasist and Nazi powers,
maybe hidden by an ally treαchery (Metaxas was murdered by ...)
and later also faced communism at the civil war of 1945-49\

that makesd another *unigue record,*
cause no country faced all 3,
and no other country find her shelf beiing attacked by 4 foreign powers at WW2 same time

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## LABERIA

> maybe hidden by an ally treαchery (Metaxas was murdered by ...)


Metaxas was killed? This is really something new. Never heard about this. Where you have read this because from Wiki we read that:



> he died in Athens on 29 January 1941 of a phlegmon of the pharynx, which subsequently led to incurable toxaemia.

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## Yetos

> Metaxas was killed? This is really something new. Never heard about this. Where you have read this because from Wiki we read that:


that is what should be said to public
search better, at least search who was he, where he studied, and why he had mania with neutrality.
as also there is another case of assasination of Greek top high principle from 1828,
and for security, other things have been said.
It is a common tactic to every country in cases of a possible anomaly to give other reasons that the real ones,

The assasination of Παξινος in Cairo, the man who first entered and checked Metaxas, 
as also that the his offcial papper/documents 75 years after, are cclosed''
Besides the peace treaty plan that was proposed to Metaxas by Fon Canaris (Wilhem Franz) via Andorka the Hungarian, at *4rth January at Madrid,*
was something above that the Greek dictator, King, and paople could imagine.
at 6th January, Greece stops the offencive stance, waiting for negotiations for the peace plan,
Ubaldo Soddu was replaced (or quit the ofice) at 29 December, just to achive the plan conditions
Ribbentrop's men Klem fon Hohenbach, and Beringer,
as also the rumors for Fon Canaris himshelf (8 January was ' ingognito' at a known house at Athens)
and later the arrival of British Archbald Wavell at 13 January
gives a clear view of something big was to happen,
at 19 January Metaxas makes a simple common surgeary, 
which even in the most primitive of that time hospital could be doned and cured,
and suddenly he dies 10 after by toxinaimika phenomena after the surgeary??
The King George and the Pappagos argue,
*the MetaXas diary,* 
the Paxinos case,
all direct to a certain thing,

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## LABERIA

> that is what should be said to public
> search better, at least search who was he, where he studied, and why he had mania with neutrality.
> as also there is another case of assasination of Greek top high principle from 1828,
> and for security, other things have been said.
> It is a common tactic to every country in cases of a possible anomaly to give other reasons that the real ones,


But, can you simplify things a little bit? Can you tell us who killed Metaxa? I do not think that is still a state secret after so many years. To be honest, no offense, to me this seems one of those conspirative theories that you like so much.

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## LABERIA

> that is what should be said to public
> search better, at least search who was he, where he studied, and why he had mania with neutrality.
> as also there is another case of assasination of Greek top high principle from 1828,
> and for security, other things have been said.
> It is a common tactic to every country in cases of a possible anomaly to give other reasons that the real ones,
> 
> The assasination of Παξινος in Cairo, the man who first entered and checked Metaxas, 
> as also that the his offcial papper/documents 75 years after, are cclosed''
> Besides the peace treaty plan that was proposed to Metaxas by Fon Canaris (Wilhem Franz) via Andorka the Hungarian, at *4rth January at Madrid,*
> ...


Yetos, why need to complicate so much this story? Nobody here, including me know who was Παξινος and his killing in Cairo. Or the house of Καρπαθακης at Athens, via Andorka the Hungarian. You mention here many names and places but peoples don't know nothing from all this. This story of this doctor who killed Metaxas sounds like the plot of the doctors that killed Stalin. 
Let's make things simple. 
Who wanted to kill Metaxas? 
For what reason/s?

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## Yetos

@ Laberia

this file was about to discuss around 1946
but civil war did not allow such search and discuss, to open another wound,
an effort to open it at 1953 drop,
from that time nobody even dared to open the file,
offcially he died by toxinaemia caused by a surgery for 'tonsils'/Pharyngitis.
what chances are for a pharyngitis surgery to turn to toxinaemia after 10 days
and die by high levels of urea in blood???

Laberia you know Greek very well,
Παξινοςς was the chief commander of police, that day

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## LABERIA

> @ Laberia
> 
> this file was about to discuss around 1946
> but civil war did not allow such search and discuss, to open another wound,
> an effort to open it at 1953 drop,
> from that time nobody even dared to open the file,
> offcially he died by toxinaemia caused by a surgery for 'tonsils'/Pharyngitis.
> what chances are for a pharyngitis surgery to turn to toxinaemia after 10 days
> and die by high levels of urea in blood???
> ...


So you think that he was killed but you don't know who killed him and why. To me this sounds like those stories with which internet is full. 
I can understand something from the greek with the help of Gg translator. And honestly i didn't know who was this chief of police. 
Let me tell you something. There is a problem with many of your posts. You think that people are familiar with persons, events and places in Greece. You have to explain better this things because even for greeks many of this are unknown, let alone for a foreigner.

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## Yetos

> So you think that he was killed but you don't know who killed him and why. To me this sounds like those stories with which internet is full. 
> I can understand something from the greek with the help of Gg translator. And honestly i didn't know who was this chief of police. 
> Let me tell you something. There is a problem with many of your posts. You think that people are familiar with persons, events and places in Greece. You have to explain better this things because even for greeks many of this are unknown, let alone for a foreigner.


I agree with you, I must improve my English and my posts,

about MetaXas death,
since the file is not opened, 
offcially is you said,
unofficially 
OMERTA law

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## last-resort

> 1940, 
> 
> 
> with a telegraph from Mussolini, asking Greece to allow Italian troops to march and take strategical positions and navy to control some ports.
> the answer was *ΟΧΙ -* No - and as Grazzi writes in his book 'Alos est la querre'
> 
> the following days Italian army attack from Albania Greece,
> Albania already was under Italian control, since they gave willingly 'land and water'
> that time Italy had a modern European army, were only the number of mortars was able to create fear to enemy,
> ...


 Certainly for ground forces, you are correct. And thank you for the further reports regarding Greece's role in WW2.

Not that I agree, but the British maintain that its air battle with the Germans - Battle of Britain - was the first defeat of German forces. The wiki article below uses these dates, 10 July – 31 October 1940, which the Germans dispute, and are in reality arbitrary. The Germans use May 1940 - August 1941. If the latter dates are accepted as more realistic, then your assessment is correct in all respects. The article even notes (towards the bottom) that the biggest raid came in December 1940, "....​with one of the largest single raids on 19 December 1940, in which almost 3,000 civilians died."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Britain

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## Yetos

dedicated to the παλικαρια palikaria of ΟΧΙ day

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## Yetos

> Certainly for ground forces, you are correct. And thank you for the further reports regarding Greece's role in WW2.
> 
> Not that I agree, but the British maintain that its air battle with the Germans - Battle of Britain - was the first defeat of German forces. The wiki article below uses these dates, 10 July – 31 October 1940, which the Germans dispute, and are in reality arbitrary. The Germans use May 1940 - August 1941. If the latter dates are accepted as more realistic, then your assessment is correct in all respects. The article even notes (towards the bottom) that the biggest raid came in December 1940, "....​with one of the largest single raids on 19 December 1940, in which almost 3,000 civilians died."
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Britain



Κορυτσα and Μοσχοπολις is the first land taken by Axis and hold for 5 months

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## Yetos

and from balkan wars and WW1 

a living myth, returning back 100 years after



build at 1907 at Orlando Livorno, a Pisa class cruiser, 
the most historical ship, that pass the Hellespontos,
Θ/Κ ΑΒΕΡΩΦ

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_...eorgios_Averof

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## Yetos

for the memory of the day,

at 2018 among Tepeleni and Dropolis (Βουλιαρατες)
there was the last transfer for the dead of WW2 
so to have their final grave.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=497ScYD63dk

a song dedicated to the OXI day (28 October)




for the history

*Hill 731*, or 'death's canyon'

it is the hill that accepted the most explosives in Europe at WW2,
after the end of battle the *hill lost 5 meters height*, 
*and change name to 726 
*(name is always after heigth)

«Επί των κατεχομένων θέσεων θα αμυνθώμεν μέχρι εσχάτων. Προμηνύεται λυσσώδης επίθεσις του εχθρού, η οποία οπωσδήποτε θα αποκρουσθή και θα συντριβή. Τότε μόνον θα διέλθη ο εχθρός εκ της τοποθεσίας μας, όταν αποθάνωμεν άπαντες επί των θέσεών μας. Ουδείς θα κινηθή προς τα οπίσω. Πάντες θα αποθάνωσι επί των θέσεών των». Αυτή ήταν η διαταγή που έδωσε ο ηρωικός ταγματάρχης Δημήτριος Κασλάς στις 9 Μαρτίου 1941. Στην επικές μάχες που ακολούθησαν τις επόμενες μέρες ρίφθηκαν τόσα πολλά πυρομαχικά όσα σε κανένα άλλο μέρος του κόσμου κατά τον Δεύτερο Παγκόσμιο Πόλεμο. Ήταν τόσα πολλά τα πυρά των Ιταλών στις 20 επιθέσεις που πραγματοποίησαν, που το ύψωμα μετά τις μάχες μειώθηκε κατά 5 μέτρα και σήμερα αναφέρεται στους χάρτες σαν ύψωμα 726 και όχι 731, μια και το υψόμετρο καθορίζει την ονομασία των υψωμάτων.


Well Wiki says 6 meters,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Hill_731

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## LABERIA

*Battle of Thermopylae (1941)*

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## Yetos

Thed WW2 Thermopylae is the Hill 731,

the mountain lost 'lost' 5 meters of heigth, and become 726,
As also it the Hill the accepted the biggest quantity of explosives of all WW2 battles /m2.

History is written,
no matter some modern want to 'erase' it for other reasons,

The monument as was buld from that era
and the 'respect' to the one of most historical weigth battles of WW2,
by 'history erasers'

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## LABERIA

> Thed WW2 Thermopylae is the Hill 731,
> the mountain lost 'lost' 5 meters of heigth, and become 726,
> As also it the Hill the accepted the biggest quantity of explosives of all WW2 battles /m2.
> History is written,
> no matter some modern want to 'erase' it for other reasons,
> The monument as was buld from that era
> and the 'respect' to the one of most historical weigth battles of WW2,
> by 'history erasers'


Yeah, we know perfectly what happened at Thermopylae, soldiers of Commonwealth fought like lions, like the ancient Greeks meanwhile the modern Greeks escaped from the battlefield:



> The absence of the Greek Army, from a battle at a site as significant to the national psyche as Thermopylae, was controversial within Greece, as General Georgios Tsolakoglou had already capitulated.
> After the war, Aris Velouchiotis – a veteran of the 1941 campaign and leader of the Greek People's Liberation Army – argued that this fact was an eternal "shame" for the Greek regime that didn't took part in the battle.


And stop posting provocative materials from terrorist sources like the video in your previous post.

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## Yetos

> Yeah, we know perfectly what happened at Thermopylae, soldiers of Commonwealth fought like lions, like the ancient Greeks meanwhile the modern Greeks escaped from the battlefield:
> 
> And stop posting provocative materials from terrorist sources like the video in your previous post.


Laberia

WW2 at Greece,
had 4 faces,

The Italian Fasists attack
The Full Axis attack (Germany Italy Bulgaria Albania) 4 countries against 1
The Battle of Crete
the resistance

the rest is just up your mind and top channel,

for the truth
THERMOPYLAE THE ALLIES WERE SO DUMB,
THAT LEFT WITHOUT BOMBING THE BRIDGE.
WHICH LATER ZERBAS AND BELOUCHIOTIS DID,

*AS FOR HILL 731 
I SUGGEST READ CLEAR AND CORRECT,*

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Hill_731

THE BRITISH EXPEDITION AND THE ANZAC FORCES CAME TO DEFEND SOUTH GREECE FROM GERMANS
AND THEY FAILED.
AND THEY WERE NEVER AT NORTH EPIRUS.

Jealous is not a good advisor,

*the BATTLE OF HILL 731 IS ONE OF THE TOP TEN SEMANTIC BATTLES of WW2,
CAUSE FOR FIRST TIME AXIS LOOSES LAND

*
*BTW
HAVE YOU EVER WONDER WHY GREECE IS CELEBRATING THE START OF WAR AND NOT THE END AS THE REST DO?

*
and a song for you




We 've taken Argyrokastro
and far, far we go

 Again you are the misinformation agency,
cause at Thermopylae there was no Greek armed to defend
the defence was at N Epirus and Metaxa bankers Line,
Thermopylae was supposed to be supported to be hold by Allies, as 2nd border line
so Greece not to surrender to Germans
which Allies fled, Leaving South Greece unprotected
and needed Greek resistance to attack and blow the Bridge.

That is an action of Zerbas and Belouchiotis,
a work that should be done by the supposed defenders of 2nd line borders


*
*

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## LABERIA

> Laberia
> 
> WW2 at Greece,
> had 4 faces,
> 
> The Italian Fasists attack
> The Full Axis attack (Germany Italy Bulgaria Albania) 4 countries against 1
> The Battle of Crete
> the resistance
> ...


Of course, people who decided to fight are dumb, the others who escaped are smart.
The rest of your post is full of lies and provocations and i don't intend to waste my time with you.
BTW, what have to do the Albanian TV channel, Top Channel with this story, can you explain this?

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## Yetos

> Of course, people who decided to fight are dumb, the others who escaped are smart.
> The rest of your post is full of lies and provocations and i don't intend to waste my time with you.
> BTW, what have to do the Albanian TV channel, Top Channel with this story, can you explain this?



your mind is confused,
just look what I write
and what you write,

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## LABERIA

> your mind is confused,
> just look what I write
> and what you write,


My post is perfect. You have to stop editing your posts every 15 minutes.
However, returning to the topic we are discussing, i have a question for you:
Why did the British decide to kill Metaxa?

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## Yetos

> My post is perfect. You have to stop editing your posts every 15 minutes.
> However, returning to the topic we are discussing, i have a question for you:
> Why did the British decide to kill Metaxa?


That is a question,
which makes many to wonder,
and until now no official answer,

we had 4 strange deaths in Greece the last 80 years,
Metaxas
King Paulos
Nikitas Benizelos
Archbishop Christodoulos,


for the last exist documents why, and by who.
for the first 3 ones, Athough is certain the way, and in 2 we know the who,
Nobody knows the exact why.

there are 2 theories, for Metaxas,
but just a possible reason,

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## LABERIA

> That is a question,
> which makes many to wonder,
> and until now no official answer,
> 
> we had 4 strange deaths in Greece the last 80 years,
> Metaxas
> King Paulos
> Nikitas Benizelos
> Archbishop Christodoulos,
> ...


Does this have to do with the scandalous behavior of the Greeks during the First World War? Perhaps the British were afraid that history could repeat itself, what do you think?

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## Yetos

> Does this have to do with the scandalous behavior of the Greeks during the First World War? Perhaps the British were afraid that history could repeat itself, what do you think?


Nope,

1 possible reason is clear economical and thefunds and control of resistance,
the other is political since Metaxas was a dictator meaning a kind of Fasist
and a possible split of King in Egypt and Metaxas at Athens 

As for the 1rst WW, The behavour of Greece was not scandalous,
rather pionnering, like in WW2 and in Korea
it followed the unstable behavour of Britain to near and middle East,
the kings and prime ministers change, every time old Albion cough


Now can you tell me 
*WHY GREECE CELEBRATES THE ENTRY TO WAR,
AND NOT THE END OF THE WAR?
as allies and Russians do?*

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## LABERIA

> Nope,
> 1 possible reason is clear economical and thefunds and control of resistance,
> the other is political since Metaxas was a dictator meaning a kind of Fasist
> and a possible split of King in Egypt and Metaxas at Athens 
> As for the 1rst WW, The behavour of Greece was not scandalous,
> rather pionnering, like in WW2 and in Korea
> it followed the unstable behavour of Britain to near and middle East,
> the kings and prime ministers change, every time old Albion cough
> Now can you tell me 
> ...


Starting from the last one. I do not give a damn thing what and how you celebrate in Greece, it is important that you do not exaggerate with the consumption of ouzo and start dream Greek empires and other BS like this and create unpleasant situations like yesterday in South Albania. If you have an answer for your question, we are listening to you.
The economic reason is to be excluded, it is stupid to say it here.
The real reason is that Metaxas was a pro-German. The British very well remembered the scandalous behavior of the Greeks during the First World War when the Greeks were "divided" into two opposite camps, one part with the Antanta and the other part with the Central Powers. There is a very precise word to describe the behavior of the Greeks during the First World War, but in order to not offend you, i decided to use the word scandalous. There was also a Greek hunting in Canada for example, exactly because of this scandalous behavior. 
The British, fearing that the situation could be repeated, eliminated Metaxas, they brought their army, navy and aviation in Greece. Technically your country was occupied by the British before being occupied by the Axis forces.

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## Angela

This thread is closed. 

Some people just can't contain their hatred of other groups.

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