# Population Genetics > mtDNA Haplogroups > H >  what H?

## kmurphy62

Just completed the 23andme test and all it said about my Maternal side was H...not a lot of help and utterly useless for what I was wanting which was a more complete viewing. Anyway of getting mor detailed data on that part of my DNA

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## Fire Haired14

This is a normal problem. mtDNA test results are usually really uninformative. Most people can have their mtDNA designated to a regional specific subclade of a haplogroup but many can't. Also, mtDNA testing companies like 23andme and FTDNA give an unsatisfactory amount of information and outdated theories about an haplogroup's history. 

Post your mtDNA raw data. With it I might be able to find what specific H subclade you belong to. 

How to find raw data for 23andme customers...
1. Log into your 23andMe account.
2. Click on "Tools" which is on the top bar.
3. Scroll down to the bottom of the page. Click on "Raw Data."
4. On the top of the screen you'll see two options: "Browse" and "Download." Click on "Download."
5. Now it'll ask you what part of your DNA you want to download. Chose "mitochondrial chromosome."
6. Save your downloaded mitochondrial chromosome in a file on your computer. 
7. Email your downloaded mitochondrial chromosome to me. I'll see if you can be designated to a H subclade. 

How to find raw data for FTDNA customers..
Step by step picture instructions...
Attachment 9056

Just copy a paste your raw data here.

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## Fire Haired14

Let me put your mHG H in context. It explains why you and some other people can't be designated to an mHG H subclades. 

mtDNA haplogroup (mHG) H is estimated to be about 20,000-25,000 years old. It's the most common mHG in West Eurasia (Europe, Middle East). mHG H began rapidly expanding and forming dozens of daughter haplogroups an estimated 10,000-15,000 years ago. Where it was expanding is unknown. But we can confident mHG H was popular and big deal somewhere in the world at least 13,000 years ago. That somewhere in the world may have been around Iraq, Iran, and Turkey. 

Today there are many regional-specific popular mHG H subclades but there are also many popular mHG H subclades dating 7,000-10,000 years old can be found from Iran to Ireland. What this means is that although many mHG H subclades had migrated long distances 15,000 years ago, many mHG H subclades spread long distances relatively recently (in the last 10,000 years). 

mHG H has lots of daughter subclades, maybe as many as 200. That's a lot more than other haplogroups of a similar age. For example my haplogroup U5b2a is older than mHG H but only has about 10 daughter subclades. This is why you can't be designated to a mHG H subclade. mHG H has so so many daughter subclades that many of them are extraordinary rare. Your mHG H is probably one of those super rare mHG H subclades.

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## taiabafa

Good morning, I did the test with Living dna and my MTdna came out that is H13a1a.
You can tell me something more about it. Where is this group coming from ... thanks

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## athos

Hello Fire-Haired14,

Would you be able to help me? 23andme has told me that I am mtdna K2 but they cannot assign a subclade.

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## Fire Haired14

> Hello Fire-Haired14,
> 
> Would you be able to help me? 23andme has told me that I am mtdna K2 but they cannot assign a subclade.


That'd weird. I'm pretty sure all K2a or K2b. K2 is one of only three mHG K subclades. mHG K formed roughly 30,000 years ago and its daughters all formed more than 20,000 years ago. mHG K likely made its biggest expansions somewhere in Southeast Europe and or Western Asia 10,000-15,000 years ago. From mHG K's unknown homeland it moved into Europe and many parts of Asia during the Neolithic (8,000 years ago). Neolithic farmers from Anatolia gave Europe many forms of K, mostly under K1a but some under K2. K2a has been found in several early Neolithic farmers in Central/East Europe dating 7,000 years old. 


The oldest examples of mHG K from ancient mtDNA.
K3. Geogria, 13,300 years old.
K1*. Greece, 10,000 years old.
K1*, K1c, K1a, K1d, Serbia/Romania, 8,000-10,000 years old.
K1a4b, Jordan, 10,000 years old.
K1b, K1c, K1a, K2a Turkey/Europe 8,000 years old. 




> Good morning, I did the test with Living dna and my MTdna came out that is H13a1a.
> You can tell me something more about it. Where is this group coming from ... thanks


H13a1a is mostly found in Europe but also be found sporadically in some parts of the Middle East. Roughly 1-3% of people in Europe belong to H13a1a and almost entirely to the H13a1a1 subclade. H13a1a and H13a1a1 emerged "recently", about 8,000 years ago. H13a1a's has many relatives in Iran, Caucasus, and SC Asia: H13c, H13a2, and H13b. The oldest examples of H13a1a in ancient DNA come from Yamnaya and Bell Beaker. It seems pretty likely that H13a1a originated in "Steppe" people of Bronze age Russia and quickly moved into the rest of Europe roughly 4,300 years ago. H13a1a's ancestors likely originated in the Near Eastern "CHG" ancestors of "Steppe."

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## taiabafa

Thanks you very much Fire Haired14 of the information

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## taiabafa

Do you also know Fire-Haired14 about Ydna? My group is G2a Z-725.
Do you have any information? thank you

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## Fire Haired14

Nah, sorry I don't know much about Y DNA. But I do think I should tell you an important difference between Y DNA and mtDNA that many people who take DNA tests don't know.

mtDNA haplogroups are always 3,000+ years old while a Y DNA haplogroup or Y DNA STR halplotype can be as young as 500 years old. Y DNA therefore can tell more about recent ancestry and genealogy. Your mtDNA haplogroup usually can just tell the general region your maternal lineage is from, Y DNA can tell you what family your paternal lineage is from or what small region it is from. 

I can tell you that your Y DNA haplogroup ultimately descends from Neolithic Anatolians who migrated en masse into Europe 8,000 years ago. There's countless examples of people with G2a2 from Neolithic Europe and a few who belong to your specific subclade (G2a2b2a1b). But that obviosuly doesn't tell you any of the recent history of your Y DNA. The only way to learn that is to do research on the internet, there are expert amateurs who can probably tell you about it.

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## taiabafa

Fire Haired14 thanks for the information

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## athos

Thanks Fire Haired14

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## Jovialis

My dad was also given simply H for his mtdna on 23andme.

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## Lenab

> My dad was also given simply H for his mtdna on 23andme.


Do they not give you any personal information like a description apart from that?

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## roberto1960

I am my mtDNA H5F I don t find many information

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## Merete

Hi! I am an H according to the full sequence test of FTDNA.

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