# Population Genetics > Y-DNA Haplogroups >  Albanian Tribe and Clan (Fis) Y-DNA

## Skerdilaidas

This thread will be an attempt to map out the genetic paternal lines, or Y-DNA haplogroups, of the Albanian tribes or clans (which many have an oral tradition of common decent from one man). I decided to make this thread in english since it is easier given the terminology of the field and to welcome any helpful input from non-Albanian speakers. Albanians that know their Clan/Fis and have tested please contribute to this thread and the Albanian project, and if you do know your Clan and have not tested, I encourage you to do so.

I am from Drenica, Central Kosova and belong to Elshani Clan sub branch of the Thaci Clan, and I am R1b1a2a


So far this is what we have. 

Official web page of the Albanian clan Y-DNA Project at FTDna
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Abanian_DNA_Poject/default.aspx?section=results


This web page is moderated by an Albanian mod from Kosova, and if you have any question, you can contact him in the email on the link.

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## Silesian

> This thread will be an attempt to map out the genetic paternal lines, or Y-DNA haplogroups, of the Albanian tribes or clans (which many have an oral tradition of common decent from one man). I decided to make this thread in english since it is easier given the terminology of the field and to welcome any helpful input from non-Albanian speakers. Albanians that know their Clan/Fis and have tested please contribute to this thread and the Albanian project, and if you do know your Clan and have not tested, I encourage you to do so.
> 
> I am from Drenica, Central Kosova and belong to Elshani Clan sub branch of the Thaci Clan, and I am R1b1a2a
> 
> 
> So far this is what we have. 
> 
> Official web page of the Albanian clan Y-DNA Project at FTDna
> https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Abanian_DNA_Poject/default.aspx?section=results
> ...


Semargl shows Z2103 predicted, the project you linked show Albanians from different regions. 

http://www.semargl.me/en/dna/ydna/country/4/

Also kit N76544 Albanian Zym, Prizren, Koso, is not listed in your link.
B3.3. R1b-L23: Should order Z2103 & CTS7822
https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ction=yresults


Have any of the R1b's been tested for L584 or L277 or CTS-7822 ?

thanx

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## FBS

J2b2* - Gashi i Gurit
E1b1b1a2* - Kelmendi

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## Skerdilaidas

> Semargl shows Z2103 predicted, the project you linked show Albanians from different regions. 
> 
> http://www.semargl.me/en/dna/ydna/country/4/
> 
> Also kit N76544 Albanian Zym, Prizren, Koso, is not listed in your link.
> B3.3. R1b-L23: Should order Z2103 & CTS7822
> https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ction=yresults
> 
> 
> ...


Semargl link is not working for me for some reason? Albanian Clans/Tribes stretch in 5 countries in the Ballkans: North Albanian, Kosova, Montenegro, Macedonia, and Serbian. So for every test we are also including the location, and as much info as we can gather from them to confirm that they indeed do decent from the Clans they claim. 

Kit N76544 is not added, I will check with the admin of the webpage, but most likely because his Clan is not confirmed. We are trying to include in this project only people that decent from the Northern Albanian Clans, but I am sure this will expand in the future if there are other Albanians that want to join. 

What you see on that page is actually what we know so far of their y-dna and clades, hopefully they upgrade in the future.


cheers!

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## Skerdilaidas

> J2b2* - Gashi i Gurit
> E1b1b1a2* - Kelmendi


It seems that you are the Kelmendi example, according to your profile. Can you please tell us a bit more about yourself, where you come from, and a brotherhood if there is such, and if you could do the same for the Gashi example?

If you are not comfortable to post such info here, you can email the mod at the link I have provided, or you can pm me.

Thanks!

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## Silesian

> Semargl link is not working for me for some reason? Albanian Clans/Tribes stretch in 5 countries in the Ballkans: North Albanian, Kosova, Montenegro, Macedonia, and Serbian. So for every test we are also including the location, and as much info as we can gather from them to confirm that they indeed do decent from the Clans they claim. 
> 
> Kit N76544 is not added, I will check with the admin of the webpage, but most likely because his Clan is not confirmed. We are trying to include in this project only people that decent from the Northern Albanian Clans, but I am sure this will expand in the future if there are other Albanians that want to join. 
> 
> What you see on that page is actually what we know so far of their y-dna and clades, hopefully they upgrade in the future.
> 
> 
> cheers!


Fantastic news, a Sicilian (Arberesh) has just joined our R1b-CTS9219+ clan.
I have a feeling more Albanians will be joining our R1b clan.  :Good Job: 

84950-_b3a. R1b-L23: Z2103+ Z2105+ CTS7822+ and CTS9219+
https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ction=yresults

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## Skerdilaidas

> Fantastic news, a Sicilian (Arberesh) has just joined our R1b-CTS9219+ clan.
> I have a feeling more Albanians will be joining our R1b clan. 
> 
> 84950-_b3a. R1b-L23: Z2103+ Z2105+ CTS7822+ and CTS9219+
> https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ction=yresults


I certainly will in the near future  :Good Job:

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## FBS

Let me be more specific

J2b2* - Gashi i Gurit from highlands of Burim (ex Istog) they actually consider themselves Drenicak
E1b1b1a2* - Kelmendi - from Rugova

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## Skerdilaidas

> Let me be more specific
> 
> J2b2* - Gashi i Gurit from highlands of Burim (ex Istog) they actually consider themselves Drenicak
> E1b1b1a2* - Kelmendi - from Rugova


Thanks, brother! Istog is in the border but some villages of Istog fall into Drenica.

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## Skerdilaidas

*New

Dibra clan, Dibra e Madhe, Macedonia: I1 L22

https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ection=results*

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## Skerdilaidas

There is a new company that looks quite decent for testing with next generation illumina-based chip. Cheaper and more accurate on y-DNA, mtDNA, and they seem to have more population references then all other companies.The only down side for is that they are only offering services in USA for now, but I believe they will be expanding globally pretty soon: www.tribecode.com.

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## noUseForAname

I was born in Prishtina and will be doing DNA test soon.....

This is what we have so far for Albanians...

*Region/Haplogroup*
*I1*
*I2*/I2a*
*I2b*
*R1a*
*R1b*
*G*
*J2*
*J*/J1*
*E-V13*

*Albania*
2
12
1.5
9
16
1.5
19.5
2
27.5

*Kosovo Albanians*
5.5
2.5
0
4.5
21
0
16.5
0
47.5

*Albanians (Macedonia)*
1
9

1.5
18.8
1.6
21.9

39.1

*Greece (Peloponnese)*








47

*Greece (South)*
3
20

2.2
19.6
5.5


43.5

*Greece (North)*
2
12

19
14.6
5.2


35.4

*Greece (Crete)*

13

8.8
17

39

8.8

*Greece (Thrace)*

19

22
12

19

19

*Greece (ethnic Greeks)*

19

16
11.7
9
17

19

*Macedonia (ethnic Slavic)*
1
33
1.5
5.1
15.2
1.5


24.1

*Bulgaria*
4
20
2
17
11
5
11
3
23.5

*Bosniaks*
4
56
0
16
3
2
3.5
0.5
10

*Bosnian Croats*
0
71
2
12
2
1
1
0
9

*Bosnian Serbs*
2.5
31
2.5
13.5
6
1
8.5
0
22.5

*Croatia*
5.5
37
1
24
8.5
2
6
1
10

*Serbia*
8.5
33
0.5
16
8
2
8
0.5
18



As per Abanians it it looks like they have over 45% of E-V13 9,000 years OLD and which is thought to be born at the same area, south east Balkans.

My guess is R1b is Celtic and came with the Roman Empire to balkans or even before. 
R1b migrated from north Mesopotamia 5,000 years ago and found home in west Europe Britain Ireland etc....but it could have even came to balkans before it went to west Europe.... 

As per Albanians these are some current scientific facts...

Y haplogroup E1b1b (E-M35) in the modern Balkan population is dominated by its sub-clade E1b1b1a (E-M78) and specifically by the most common European sub-clade of E-M78, *E-V13*.[68] The area in and around *Albanian speaking regions* has the *highest known percentages E-V13 in the world*, and it is thought that the majority of E-V13 in Europe and elsewhere *descend from a common ancestor who lived in the Balkans in the late Mesolithic or Neolithic*, and that men of this lineage began to spread outside the Balkans as early as the Neolithic, or even as recently as the Roman era.[68][69][70][71][72][73]

In contrast, another major discovery relevant to the study of E-V13 origins was the announcement in Lacan et al. (2011) that a *7000 year old skeleton* in a Neolithic context in a Spanish funeral cave, *was an E-V13 man*. (The other specimens tested from the same site were in haplogroup G2a, which has been found in Neolithic contexts throughout Europe.) Using 7 STR markers, this specimen was identified as being *similar to modern individuals tested in Albania, Bosnia, Greece, Corsica, and Provence*. The authors therefore proposed that, whether or not the modern distribution of E-V13 of today is a result of more recent events, *E-V13 was already in Europe within the Neolithic*, carried by early farmers from the Eastern Mediterranean to the Western Mediterranean, *much earlier than the Bronze age*.
It appeared identical at the seven markers tested to *five Albanian, two Bosnian, one Greek, one Italian, one Sicilian, two Corsican*, and two Provence French samples and are thus placed on the same node of the E1b1b1a1b-V13 network as eastern, central, and western Mediterranean haplotypes (Fig. S1).

Haplogroup E-V13 is the only lineage that reaches the highest frequencies out of Africa. In fact, it represents about 85% of the European E-M78 chromosomes with a clinal pattern of frequency distribution from the southern Balkan peninsula (19.6%) to western Europe (2.5%). The same haplogroup is also present at lower frequencies in Anatolia (3.8%), the Near East (2.0%), and the Caucasus (1.8%). In Africa, haplogroup E-V13 is rare, being observed only in northern Africa at a low frequency (0.9%).
—Cruciani et al. (2007)

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## kuqezi

> I was born in Prishtina and will be doing DNA test soon.....
> 
> This is what we have so far for Albanians...
> 
> *Region/Haplogroup*
> *I1*
> *I2*/I2a*
> *I2b*
> *R1a*
> ...


What clan do you hail from?

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## Skerdilaidas

Most of the R1b that is found on Albanians is not "Celtic" nor did it come with Romans. R1b in the Balkans is pretty old.

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## noUseForAname

> Most of the R1b that is found on Albanians is not "Celtic" nor did it come with Romans. R1b in the Balkans is pretty old.


Yes, as i have noted it could had came to the Balkans before it even went to the west. Actually it came to the balkans first because it couldn't reach the other way around to British isles Although R1b found a home on the current celtic areas for whatever reasons. Because they have the highest percentage.
From the map below it looks like it went to those balkans areas at least 5,000 years ago.

http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplog...1b_Y-DNA.shtml

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## noUseForAname

> There is a new company that looks quite decent for testing with next generation illumina-based chip. Cheaper and more accurate on y-DNA, mtDNA, and they seem to have more population references then all other companies.The only down side for is that they are only offering services in USA for now, but I believe they will be expanding globally pretty soon: www.tribecode.com.


thanks for sharing this Skerdilaidas....how much accurate is tribecode?...has anyone used it?...will it give more detailed subclades?
am not sure if this one works here in Canada...

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## Skerdilaidas

> thanks for sharing this Skerdilaidas....how much accurate is tribecode?...has anyone used it?...will it give more detailed subclades?
> am not sure if this one works here in Canada...


No problem, mate. I have heard that they are more accurate then 23andme for sure on y-DNA/mtDNA, and also autosomally. You can't order it from Canada yet, because I have tried (I live in Canada too). Few people I know that have done 23andme and live in US, have ordered it, but they are still waiting to get their results. I will update this thread once they get them. 

You mentioned that you come from Pristina. Are you from the city itself or municipality, and do you happen to know which clan you hail from?


BTW here is what their Ethnic Composition map looks like:

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## Skerdilaidas



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## noUseForAname

> No problem, mate. I have heard that they are more accurate then 23andme for sure on y-DNA/mtDNA, and also autosomally. You can't order it from Canada yet, because I have tried (I live in Canada too). Few people I know that have done 23andme and live in US, have ordered it, but they are still waiting to get their results. I will update this thread once they get them. 
> 
> You mentioned that you come from Pristina. Are you from the city itself or municipality, and do you happen to know which clan you hail from?
> 
> 
> BTW here is what their Ethnic Composition map looks like:


Thanks for sharing this, i think https://www.familytreedna.com/ might be better (not so certain though), a buddy Maleth from Malta who is E-V13 strangely discovered through his surname that it came from Germanic region, but not to confuse this as he also noted that before E-V13 went to Germany it might have migrated from the south east Balkans were E-V13 is considered to have its roots for at least 7,000 years.

here is his explanation....http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...up-E1b1b/page2

Yes i was born in the city of Prishtina itself, but my father was born in Prizren. Dont know about the clan, pretty embarrassing though, but i will ask from my father....

the map showed does not look promising, spcially if we are talking about dna..... british isles are R1b same as basques and most France and Spain, Russia is R1a, pretty inaccurate for Italian peninsula taking the 20% European...they should take into account E-V13 which is much older than R1b in british Isles, R1b migrated there from area of todays Georgia and far north east todays Turkey to brtish isles around 4,000 years ago. And therefore Italian dna is pretty much mixed with r1b, I, and E-V13 (lowest percentages) which is found more on the very south and argued that it migrated there from south east Balkans.

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## noUseForAname

> *New
> 
> Dibra clan, Dibra e Madhe, Macedonia: I1 L22
> 
> https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ection=results*


Skerdilaidas....

is there any chance we can gather all those tested from familytreedna.com here?

I would be interested to conduct a research paper in regards to y dna of Albanian speaking regions.

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## Skerdilaidas

> Skerdilaidas....
> 
> is there any chance we can gather all those tested from familytreedna.com here?
> 
> I would be interested to conduct a research paper in regards to y dna of Albanian speaking regions.


What do you mean by "gather them here"? The member kuqezi is actually the moderator for the Albanian project at ftDNA, so he most likely can help with data. So far though on the OP link, we have only listed people that can confirm their Clan, but that could change in the future for instance on a bigger or whole Albanian project. Also, not all the examples were actually tested from ftDNA either, some are from 23andme and National Geographic.

That is actually what we are attempting to accomplish, but it might take a while since not many Albanians seem to interested on genetics.

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## Skerdilaidas

> Thanks for sharing this, i think https://www.familytreedna.com/ might be better (not so certain though), a buddy Maleth from Malta who is E-V13 strangely discovered through his surname that it came from Germanic region, but not to confuse this as he also noted that before E-V13 went to Germany it might have migrated from the south east Balkans were E-V13 is considered to have its roots for at least 7,000 years.
> 
> here is his explanation....http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...up-E1b1b/page2
> 
> Yes i was born in the city of Prishtina itself, but my father was born in Prizren. Dont know about the clan, pretty embarrassing though, but i will ask from my father....
> 
> the map showed does not look promising, spcially if we are talking about dna..... british isles are R1b same as basques and most France and Spain, Russia is R1a, pretty inaccurate for Italian peninsula taking the 20% European...they should take into account E-V13 which is much older than R1b in british Isles, R1b migrated there from area of todays Georgia and far north east todays Turkey to brtish isles around 4,000 years ago. And therefore Italian dna is pretty much mixed with r1b, I, and E-V13 (lowest percentages) which is found more on the very south and argued that it migrated there from south east Balkans.


No problem. Yeah I agree, ftDNA is the best option, specifically if you want to trace your y-dna further down. However, for how much tribecode is charging, and if they turn out to be a lot more accurate then 23andme with their advanced technology (which most likely are), are certainly worth it. 

The map I linked is just a sample of what your autosomal dna looks like at tribecode, so not really connected to y-dna's. The fella in that map most likely is somewhere from South America.

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## Aaron1981

R1b in Albania is from the Illyrians and linked to the steppe before arriving in central-East Europe during the metal ages. These men likely brought their version of IE language along with them. While E-V13 is the dominant haplogroup among men in the Balkans, there is no way in hell these individuals spoke PIE in any form.

Bold statements eh? But likely true.

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## Skerdilaidas

> R1b in Albania is from the Illyrians and linked to the steppe before arriving in central-East Europe during the metal ages. These men likely brought their version of IE language along with them. While E-V13 is the dominant haplogroup among men in the Balkans, there is no way in hell these individuals spoke PIE in any form.
> 
> Bold statements eh? But likely true.


Yeah most likely true. But Illyrians too were probably more diverse in y-dna, rather then just R1b. Illyrians settled in Central Europe for bit before they descended down into Balkans, so they most definitely had R1b (that was re-enforced in Balkans) but also some clades of I.

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## noUseForAname

> What do you mean by "gather them here"? The member kuqezi is actually the moderator for the Albanian project at ftDNA, so he most likely can help with data. So far though on the OP link, we have only listed people that can confirm their Clan, but that could change in the future for instance on a bigger or whole Albanian project. Also, not all the examples were actually tested from ftDNA either, some are from 23andme and National Geographic.
> 
> That is actually what we are attempting to accomplish, but it might take a while since not many Albanians seem to interested on genetics.


There are couple of scientific papers done and therefore it came up with the table i have showed in regards to dna by ethnicity.

I meant how can we find all those Albanians from those scientific papers and familytreedna and 23andme, and have all their details described here, like their region or their Clan....then when more people would join we might have a much bigger sample, and therefore i can start conducting a new research papers.

if you go to this website below you will find samples from Albanians and the research papers...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_h...attaglia2008-9

one is Bataglia 2008, Pericic 2005, etc...

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## Maleth

This clan business is interesting. Any one has some kind of detailed history of how these clans came to be? Are they created in recent history or there is a possibility much older then that? If people were already mixed in ancient times the probability is that these clans would be pretty mixed too, but only a proper DNA study can determine that. Example there were many misconceptions with some racial separation between Christian and Muslim Lebanese or some kind of Racial purity within Jews. Dna testing seem to have busted these conceptions.

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## Maleth

> R1b in Albania is from the Illyrians and linked to the steppe before arriving in central-East Europe during the metal ages. These men likely brought their version of IE language along with them. While E-V13 is the dominant haplogroup among men in the Balkans, there is no way in hell these individuals spoke PIE in any form.
> 
> Bold statements eh? But likely true.


Why do you considered your statement bold? It is an open possibly like so many others nothing controversial about that in my opinion. In relation to language it all depends were E-V13 was mutated and what the first person spoke within his group. It could have been easily mixed with G's and J's. from its conception. But does anyone know for sure?

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## Skerdilaidas

> This clan business is interesting. Any one has some kind of detailed history of how these clans came to be? Are they created in recent history or there is a possibility much older then that? If people were already mixed in ancient times the probability is that these clans would be pretty mixed too, but only a proper DNA study can determine that. Example there were many misconceptions with some racial separation between Christian and Muslim Lebanese or some kind of Racial purity within Jews. Dna testing seem to have busted these conceptions.


Albanians have had Clans since we were first recorded in history. In South Albania they were known as "Fara" (meaning seed), and in North as "Fis" (meaning Clan). However, the Clans we have listed in this project are from North Albania, because they are the only ones that have preserved their traditions until today. They were first recorded during early middle ages, so we assume that is when they were actually formed too, and latter grew bigger to counter the Ottoman dominance on the rural areas, and also for protection (strictly they were warlike Clans, which were also famous as mercenaries). 

Considering that these Clans were based on blood related families only through the male line and were exogamous, meaning they only took brides from other Clans that they had no blood relations, theoretically each should be of one y-dna. There were instances though of Brotherhoods, meaning male ancestors joined the Clans, and some of the Clans that have such traditions would obviously be more diverse on y-dna. So far only four y-dna we have on all these Clans, and E-V13 is dominating along with R1b, then J2b, so quite compact I would say. Blood relations were passed down orally by the elders, and their councils. 

They were all Catholic during middle ages, but some fractions converted to Orthodoxy, and later quite a bit of these Clans also converted to Islam, but their core in North Albania is still Catholic. These Clans followed/obeyed what we call in Albanian "Kanun". Kanun simply used to be our bible and kuran, so religion basically meant nothing to these Clans (just an outside influence). There is quite a bit of material on them, but unfortunately not very much on English.

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## Maleth

> Albanians have had Clans since we were first recorded in history. In South Albania they were known as "Fara" (meaning seed), and in North as "Fis" (meaning Clan). However, the Clans we have listed in this project are from North Albania, because they are the only ones that have preserved their traditions until today. They were first recorded during early middle ages, so we assume that is when they were actually formed too, to counter the Ottoman dominance on the rural areas, and also for protection (strictly they were warlike Clans, which were also famous as mercenaries). 
> 
> Considering that these Clans were based on blood related families only through the male line and were exogamous, meaning they only tool brides from other Clans that they had no blood relations, theoretically they should all be of one y-dna. There were instances though of Brotherhoods, meaning male ancestors joined the Clans, and some of the Clans that have such traditions would obviously be more diverse on y-dna. So far only four y-dna we have on all these Clans, and E-V13 is dominating along with R1b, then J2b, so quite compact I would say. Blood relations were passed down orally by the elders, and their councils. 
> 
> They were all Catholic during middle ages, but some fractions converted to Orthodoxy, and later quite a bit of these Clans also converted to Islam, but their core in North Albania is still Catholic. These Clans followed/obeyed what we call in Albanian "Kanun". Kanun simply used to be our bible and kuran, so religion basically meant nothing to these Clans (just an outside influence). There is quite a bit of material on them, but unfortunate not very much on English.


Thanks for info Skerdilaidas. Thats very interesting. I guess my roots are there somewhere or in Greece, Who knows what era it was 7000 years (probably more) is a long time to put a clear picture together  :Cool V:

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## Skerdilaidas

New 


Shkreli Clan, from Gjakova, Kosova: I1*

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## Trojet

Hi everyone. I am Albanian from the Kercova area (Western Macedonia). I recently tested as J2B2* on 23andme.com. My family (fis) roots are in the Kercova area for as long as anyone remembers. I ordered a y-dna 37 marker from FTDNA, and am looking forward to contributing to the FTDNA Albanian project. I haven't heard of anyone from my area doing this test that I know of, so it will be interesting to see if there is any connection between my J2B2 and the ones in Albania and Kosova. What do u guys think?

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## Sile

> Hi everyone. I am from the Kercova area (Western Macedonia). I recently tested as J2B2* on 23andme.com. My family (fis) roots are in the Kercova area for as long as anyone remembers. I ordered a y-dna 37 marker from FTDNA, and am looking forward to contributing to the FTDNA Albanian project. I haven't heard of anyone from my area doing this test that I know of, so it will be interesting to see if there is any connection between my J2B2 and the ones in Albania and Kosova. What do u guys think?


Welcome

I think its a good Idea


how come the albanians have the third highest internet usage of members in all major genetic forums?................does everyone in Albania get free internet?

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## Trojet

> Welcome
> 
> I think its a good Idea
> 
> 
> how come the albanians have the third highest internet usage of members in all major genetic forums?................does everyone in Albania get free internet?


Thank you.
I live in the US. I doubt they get free internet in Albania proper. But maybe it's because through DNA and genetics, we can prove to the world that we really are autochthonous, that's if there is any doubts lol...

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## Skerdilaidas

> Hi everyone. I am Albanian from the Kercova area (Western Macedonia). I recently tested as J2B2* on 23andme.com. My family (fis) roots are in the Kercova area for as long as anyone remembers. I ordered a y-dna 37 marker from FTDNA, and am looking forward to contributing to the FTDNA Albanian project. I haven't heard of anyone from my area doing this test that I know of, so it will be interesting to see if there is any connection between my J2B2 and the ones in Albania and Kosova. What do u guys think?


Welcome, and congrats on your results! After you get your results at ftdna, please join the Albanian project there. Also, I will send you my user name at 23andme.com via pm, so please add me.

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## LumiBardha

Hi everyone, I am albanian from Dinosha ( near Tuzi or grude) Montenegro. I just did the 23andme test and my Ydna haplogroup is E1b1b1a2. My father says his family comes from the trijshi tribe up in the mountains of Montenegro, a town called Ledina. My maternal line came out D4J, which i found interesting. she is of the Nikovic/nikaj clan.

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## Trojet

This is the official Albanian project at FTDNA for all Albanians. Our Clan Y-DNA results are in this project as well: https://www.familytreedna.com/groups...oodlines/about

If any moderators can update the link at the beginning of this thread with this one, please do so, since the other link is missing the Clan Y-DNA results relevant to this thread.

Also if any Albanians are thinking about testing their Y-DNA, please refer to to the above link for information and contribute to our project by testing with FTDNA.

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## Fustan

J2b2 krasniqi. The legend is true.

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## Trojet

The official forum of Albanian Bloodlines at FamilyTreeDNA, as well as Albanian genetics, history, and anthropology: www.foleja.net

----------


## Dibran

YDNA: R1a1a, Dibra Clan, specifically Martanesh. Surname Koci. Originally from Mirdita. Original surname Pershpalaj. 

MTDNA: H11a, Puka Malsi, surname Shpata, mothers line traces to Gjon Buas Shpata in Cameria.

----------


## Dibran

I plan on doing a deeper ydna ftdna once i can afford it to contribute to the albanian ftdna.

----------


## Leka

> I plan on doing a deeper ydna ftdna once i can afford it to contribute to the albanian ftdna.


Hi Dibran, do you know the tribal region or village you originate from in Mirdita? You should test at ftdna because it would be really useful to see what branch you actually belong to. Majority of R1a though in the Balkans seem to have come with Slavs, but there is a 50/50 chance you might belong to a Germanic branch.

----------


## rafc

I previously posted about V13/CTS5856. Since then I've used the Genographic project samples to look deeper in the distribution of V13/CTS5856. The analysis of that group is too specific for this board, but I also looked at the distribution of all groups in Albania, and that might be of interest here. I picked albania since V13/CTS5856 is the major haplogroup there, and because people were interested in it  :Smiling: .

*All what follows is based on data from the Genographic project ("The National Geographic Society’s Genographic Project") unless otherwise specified, with many thanks to them for their work and their kind permission for me to access their database. 

*I queried the Genographic project's database for all demographic fields containing "Albania". I selected all samples that had a male Albanian ancestry (including some Italian/Greek minorities). Limiting to those with Y-DNA info I had 109 samples. The samples belong to different phases of the project. The next statistics are based on the main one, containing 70 samples. The following were the totals over these 70, and the totals over the samples from the other phases that I mapped to the SNP's of the main phase (total n=109). I have to stress this is not a representative sample of Albania as a whole, as regions from where there was a lot of emmigration are obviously favored, most Genographic participants were descendants of emmigrants (especially to the US).

Levels in Albania:
E-M215: 33%
G: 6%
H: 1%
I1: 5%
I2: 12%
J1: 2%
J2: 16%
R1a: 8%
R1b: 20%

Some remarks:
93% of E-M215 was V13+ in the detailed samples.

The only detailed G was P303+.

About a quarter of the I2 was m223+, the rest P37+. P37 was completely F3245 in the detailed samples.

In the detailed samples J2a and J2b were nearly 50/50, J2b dominated by Z590.

The one detailed R1a is CTS3402+

Almost all R1b was P310-, and most of it was CTS9219+ like in Greece (although there's far fewer P310 in this very limited Albanian sample).

----------


## Trojet

> I previously posted about V13/CTS5856. Since then I've used the Genographic project samples to look deeper in the distribution of V13/CTS5856. The analysis of that group is too specific for this board, but I also looked at the distribution of all groups in Albania, and that might be of interest here. I picked albania since V13/CTS5856 is the major haplogroup there, and because people were interested in it .
> 
> *All what follows is based on data from the Genographic project ("The National Geographic Society’s Genographic Project") unless otherwise specified, with many thanks to them for their work and their kind permission for me to access their database. 
> 
> *I queried the Genographic project's database for all demographic fields containing "Albania". I selected all samples that had a male Albanian ancestry (including some Italian/Greek minorities). Limiting to those with Y-DNA info I had 109 samples. The samples belong to different phases of the project. The next statistics are based on the main one, containing 70 samples. The following were the totals over these 70, and the totals over the samples from the other phases that I mapped to the SNP's of the main phase (total n=109). I have to stress this is not a representative sample of Albania as a whole, as regions from where there was a lot of emmigration are obviously favored, most Genographic participants were descendants of emmigrants (especially to the US).
> 
> Levels in Albania:
> E-M215: 33%
> G: 6%
> ...


Thanks Rafc!

Yes, almost all of Albanian R1b is P310- and most most it is under CTS9219>BY611 and some under PF7562 (according to data from Albanian Bloodlines at FTDNA and scientific studies).

For J2b samples could you give me deeper SNP classification below L283, Z590 if available: https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-L283/

I'd be curious if you see any Z1043, Z1048.

----------


## rafc

> Thanks Rafc!
> 
> Yes, almost all of Albanian R1b is P310- and most most it is under CTS9219>BY611 and some under PF7562 (according to data from Albanian Bloodlines at FTDNA and scientific studies).
> 
> For J2b samples could you give me deeper SNP classification below L283, Z590 if available: https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-L283/
> 
> I'd be curious if you see any Z1043, Z1048.


Nothing lower than Z590 was tested, unfortunately.

----------


## Trojet

> Nothing lower than Z590 was tested, unfortunately.


I see. Thanks.

----------


## Dibran

Hi Leka,

So sorry for the late response. I didnt even see I was replied to. Still pretty new to this site. As for where in Mirdita I am unsure. I more and more am starting to suspect that My paternal line descends from Epirus. This would explain the higher likelihood of R1a. 

So the way family oral history goes(which is always questionable) The Kocis of my line descend from a clan of Mirditore by the name Pershpala sometimes written as pershpalaj. I connected with a couple of Mirdit with this surname and tried convincing them to test to see if our paternal ancestors share the same haplogroup. Never tested though so kind of at a loss on that end. The story claims that 3 brothers broke off from an unknown point of origin. Some went to mirdita(and then later diber), others went to Bulgaria, and Turkey.

My father says the surname was kind of like a title. Much like many albanian surnames are. it is a turkish word for Ram or something or other. The story claims we left Mirdita due to blood feuds(we dont know what year this was) and settled in Okshtun in Dibra vogel. The martanesh region. The name Koci was adopted from warring with the Ottomans apparently. Later we converted to Islam.

Interestingly there is a Koci clan which is believed to originate in Epirus(this would explain R1a, given the intermixed region). This Koci clan even had a group who settled in Arbanas Bulgaria, and Turkey. The group in Arbanas would move to Moldova where Vasil Lupu Coci half albanian and half moldovan would being prince of Moldova for 19 years. 

." The Coci family settled in Wallachia (Țara Rumânească) in the first half of the 16th century.[1] His father, Nicolae (Neculai) Coci was a shopkeeper from Macedonia, the son of Constantin (Coce) and Ecaterina.[2] Nicolae entered Moldavian nobility in 1593.[3] According to some sources, his father was born in Arbanasi (a village in modern Bulgaria), while some other historians claim Arbănaşi (modern Romania).[4]
Dimitrie Cantemir (1673–1723) called him _Albanezul_ ("Albanian"); some historians maintain that Lupu's father, Neculai, was of Albanian origin.[5] Nicolae Bănescu (writing in 1926) maintained that his father was of Balkanic origin, while his mother was Romanian (Moldavian).[6] Seton-Watson (writing in 1934) mentioned him as being of Albanian origin.[7][_better source needed_] English historian Steven Runciman (1903–2000) maintains that his father was an Albanian adventurer, and his mother was a Moldavian heiress.[8]According to historian Ioan Bolovan (1997), Vasile Lupu's father was an Albanian from Arbanasi, probably with distant origin from Epirus.[9][_verification needed_] According to historian Toader Nicoară (2005), he may have been an Albanian from Arbanasi, Bulgaria.[10] In modern historiography,[_by whom?_] his descent has been described as of mixed Albanian and Greek origin."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasile_Lupu



Its believed his clan were Orthodox. This is interesting given my father claims we were orthodox and mirdita was catholic. There are too many gaps for me to be certain of a connection to the Koci clan in Epirus. It wouldnt explain the name shift from Pershpalaj. It does however explain the high italian and greek that showed up in his gedmatch reports(if there is any accuracy to these tests). Could it be possible something in the oral history was lost in translation? perhaps it was a woman who married into the Koci clan that was connected to the Pershpalaj, and as is often with oral history things get twisted, and they claimed it was from the fathers line. Idk. I just know much of my families history has been in Diber for at least 300 years now. The Kocis who went from Epirus to Bulgaria went in 1450s. Perhaps one of the brothers went to Diber instead.

The classifications recently changed on 23andme. So I have no idea if they classified me into a subgroup or not. They stated I was R-M417 a subgroup of M512. So Idk what that means. I am interested in doing the Ftdna y test but Idk how many markers I should test at.


Also if it is of any help I could post my gedmatch results. My fathers as well. I recently had him take the test. Interestingly enough he has alot of Greek relatives. Overwhelmingly so. Which makes me wonder if our clan was in fact in south albania and Cameria region. His maternal line was T1 which seems less common in the Balkans. It is higher in Bulgaria.

mtDNA-T1-map (2).jpg

My mothers line was H11a 

mtDNA-H1-H3-map (1).jpg

----------


## Leka

Hi Dibran,

I will keep an eye for a Preshpalaj in Mirdite, probably your best bet, and will let you know if I find such family. Although, we can't deduce where your origins lie based on your last name alone, as you mentioned 'Koci' used to be a title and most likely was changed in recent history. There are many non related families in Kosova and North Albanian who carry such last name, Koci, a family from Kabashi tribe and another from Thaçi come to mind. 

Epirus to mee doesn't makes sense, you could have come from North for all we could tell. The only way to find that out is test Y-STR markers at Family Tree DNA (which of course is too late as you have tested somewhere else, I saw your thread), and see who matches you within the genealogical time frame and what branch of R1a you belong to. I don't know too much about the company you have tested but I don't believe they test STR markers, so in short you won't be able to find out who are your closest matches paternally. Hypothetically speaking, if you are M458 confirmed by this new company, you won't be able to know if your paternal ancestors were Serbs, Bulgarians/Macedonians, Croats etc.

----------


## Dibran

> Hi Dibran,
> 
> I will keep an eye for a Preshpalaj in Mirdite, probably your best bet, and will let you know if I find such family. Although, we can't deduce where your origins lie based on your last name alone, as you mentioned 'Koci' used to be a title and most likely was changed in recent history. There are many non related families in Kosova and North Albanian who carry such last name, Koci, a family from Kabashi tribe and another from Thaçi come to mind. 
> 
> Epirus to mee doesn't makes sense, you could have come from North for all we could tell. The only way to find that out is test Y-STR markers at Family Tree DNA (which of course is too late as you have tested somewhere else, I saw your thread), and see who matches you within the genealogical time frame and what branch of R1a you belong to. I don't know too much about the company you have tested but I don't believe they test STR markers, so in short you won't be able to find out who are your closest matches paternally. Hypothetically speaking, if you are M458 confirmed by this new company, you won't be able to know if your paternal ancestors were Serbs, Bulgarians/Macedonians, Croats etc.



Hi Leka. As far as I know. According to some reading LivingDNA does specify the grouping and mutation of both maternal and paternal lineages. Rather than a broad assessment it should give me an idea. 

Some sample profiles I looked up by people in twitter also had specific mutations. 

FtDNA is not out of the question. I plan to eventually test and join the group. But as I understand LivingDNA is the best company right now. Money wise and results wise. Aside from let's say health related data. Considering I used my PayPal it was more advantageous at the moment.

----------


## Leka

> Hi Leka. As far as I know. According to some reading LivingDNA does specify the grouping and mutation of both maternal and paternal lineages. Rather than a broad assessment it should give me an idea. 
> 
> Some sample profiles I looked up by people in twitter also had specific mutations. 
> 
> FtDNA is not out of the question. I plan to eventually test and join the group. But as I understand LivingDNA is the best company right now. Money wise and results wise. Aside from let's say health related data. Considering I used my PayPal it was more advantageous at the moment.


Did you get your results?

----------


## Dibran

> Did you get your results?


Hi Leka,

It can take up to 3 months. I should have my results between march nd end of April. Will update as soon as available.

----------


## bersantselmani

Pershendetje te gjitheve

un jam Bersant Selmani shqiptar nga Prishtina Kosove
haplogrupi I2c
me prejardhje nga Juniku Kosove
fisi Morina nga Mirdita Shqiperi

hi to all

i am Bersant Selmani albanian from Prishtina Kosova
haplogroup I2c
region of origin Junik Kosova
Morina clan from Mirdita Albania

----------


## Dibran

> Pershendetje te gjitheve
> 
> un jam Bersant Selmani shqiptar nga Prishtina Kosove
> haplogrupi I2c
> me prejardhje nga Juniku Kosove
> fisi Morina nga Mirdita Shqiperi
> 
> hi to all
> 
> ...


Si je Bersant? 

Un jam nga Dibres Vogel. 

Prejardhje nga Mirdita. 

Haplogroup R1a. 

My family doesn't know when we left Mirdita exactly. Only that our last name originally was Pershpalaj before we went to Diber.

----------


## Zemra

> This clan business is interesting. Any one has some kind of detailed history of how these clans came to be? Are they created in recent history or there is a possibility much older then that? If people were already mixed in ancient times the probability is that these clans would be pretty mixed too, but only a proper DNA study can determine that. Example there were many misconceptions with some racial separation between Christian and Muslim Lebanese or some kind of Racial purity within Jews. Dna testing seem to have busted these conceptions.


Recent history, they were result of the Ottoman Empire destroying the governing institutions of medieval Albania; an attempt at reorganizing society. There is a book for them if you want "The Tribes of Albania: History, Society and Culture" by Robert Elsie. Religious intermixing was common.

----------


## Stratioti

From Istog-Vrella
Krasniqi Clan
E-V13 via 23andme

----------


## Leka

> From Istog-Vrella
> Krasniqi Clan
> E-V13 via 23andme


Hi Stratioti, it would be really great if we could get your sample either at ftdna of yseq to find out your branch/cluster. Do you by any chance know which Krasniqi brotherhood you belong to, and where from you originate prior to Vrella? I will also need your last name so we can list you. Please pm me if you wish or email me (I can pm you my email because I am not allowed to post it here util I have 10 posts)

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## Leka

> Hi Leka,
> 
> It can take up to 3 months. I should have my results between march nd end of April. Will update as soon as available.


Hi Dibra,

I had a chance to look a bit into Preshpalaj, and there is such a family in Spaç, though, they are not related to Spaçi tribe - who are predominantly J2b2-PH1751. They came to Spaç from Kalaj of Kthelle e Eperme.

----------


## Stratioti

Hi again,

My last name is BLAKAJ, dont know how to be more specific about my clan(Krasniqi).
Prior to Vrella we orginate from Isniq which is a fact and before that there are 2 theories. One that we came from Bjake(Albania) one that we came from Berane(Montenegro). 

Mother side came late from Albania, from Mirdite(Clan Morine). Mothers side are catholic still today. Fathers side where catholic a couple generations ago but changed faith to Islam in 19th century.

Do you have any link or guide for "ftdna of yseq" ?

----------


## Trojet

> Hi again,
> 
> My last name is BLAKAJ, dont know how to be more specific about my clan(Krasniqi).
> Prior to Vrella we orginate from Isniq which is a fact and before that there are 2 theories. One that we came from Bjake(Albania) one that we came from Berane(Montenegro). 
> 
> Mother side came late from Albania, from Mirdite(Clan Morine). Mothers side are catholic still today. Fathers side where catholic a couple generations ago but changed faith to Islam in 19th century.
> 
> Do you have any link or guide for "ftdna of yseq" ?


Interesting. Thanks for this info Stratioti. So you are Blakaj. We do have another Krasniqi-Blakaj tested as E-V13.

Yes, it would be great if you test at FTDNA or YSEQ (minimum Y37), as well as your maternal side (Y-DNA). 

To really dig in deeper into the Y-DNA and help our project, we need Albanians to test at either: FTDNA (Y37+) or YSEQ Alpha-Beta (Y37) and join "Albanian Bloodlines" group at YSEQ for results analysis.
(23andMe, Geno2, LivingDNA are such a low resolution when it comes to Y-DNA).

In addition, you may click here for the links, testing options, and further info.

----------


## Leka

Thanks Stratioti! I figured that you're probably Blakaj because I wasn't aware of any other Krasniqi family that lives in Vrelle. Please see the links that Trojet provided and if you need assistance, let us know.

----------


## Fustan

I would encourage more south Albanians to test as well. I would like to see if there's any paternal connection between ghegs and tosks (seems to be in some cases).

----------


## Dibran

> Hi Dibra,
> 
> I had a chance to look a bit into Preshpalaj, and there is such a family in Spaç, though, they are not related to Spaçi tribe - who are predominantly J2b2-PH1751. They came to Spaç from Kalaj of Kthelle e Eperme.



Hi Leka. My father isn't certain if we were originally Pershpalaj or if a Pershpalaj woman married into the Koci and it got lost in translation. 

I spoke to a Albanian guy who has been to orosh in mirdita where the Pershpalaj are predominantly located. 

If there is any truth to the oral history, he claims the Pershpalaj descended from a Condottieri named Paul from the Apennines of Italy. He was supposedly hired by Skanderbeg in the 1400s and brought to Albania to fight the Ottomans where he would eventually settle in Mirdita. 

I am doing full genomes. So, time will tell if this story holds any merit.

----------


## Trojet

For Albanian readers. (The rest should be able to use Google Translate):

http://www.gjenetika.com/perberja-gj...aterore-y-dna/

----------


## Dibran

> Hi Dibra,
> 
> I had a chance to look a bit into Preshpalaj, and there is such a family in Spaç, though, they are not related to Spaçi tribe - who are predominantly J2b2-PH1751. They came to Spaç from Kalaj of Kthelle e Eperme.


I forgot to ask. Forgot about this post. Do you per chance have a way to get into contact with these Pershpalaj in Spac? I would very much like to test them and happily donate towards that end. 

Sadly all the Pershpalaj I contacted never responded. The one that did was not comfortable with DNA testing.

----------


## Leka

> I forgot to ask. Forgot about this post. Do you per chance have a way to get into contact with these Pershpalaj in Spac? I would very much like to test them and happily donate towards that end. 
> 
> Sadly all the Pershpalaj I contacted never responded. The one that did was not comfortable with DNA testing.


Unfortunately I don’t. I ran into that info while reading some ethnographic literature (can’t remember the source at the moment, but I think it might be one of Mark Tirta’s articles/books).

----------


## Dibran

> Unfortunately I don’t. I ran into that info while reading some ethnographic literature (can’t remember the source at the moment, but I think it might be one of Mark Tirta’s articles/books).


Ok thanks. Sadly none of the ones I reached out to have been responsive. Perhaps one will eventually test on their own.

----------


## Beki

Замолио бих модераторе да одобре мој претходни коментар на ову тему.

----------


## Beki

Hi! I am from the village of Sllatina near Vushtrri. I'm a Serb by nationality. My ancestors moved to Sllatina in 1865 from Drenica, from the village Kërlligatë. In Kërligate we moved from the surrounding area of ​​Peje. According to one tradition, we moved to Kosovo from Moraca, but genetics disputed this tradition. According to another tradition, we were Albanians catholic, but we have switched to orthodoxy. Our current surname is Janiqijeviq/Janićijević, and our old surname is Çubrk-Çubruk. We had relatives in villages: Stërnac i Poshtëm and Çubrel. Our relatives from Çubrel moved to the village of Tupalle near Medvegja in 1878 because of the blood feud, their old surname is *Qubrak*.

I am currently investigating from which tribe/fis my ancestors come. What I managed to find out is that entire northwest Drenica is inhabited exclusively by Albanians from a clan Gashi. Albanians from the Gashi clan live exclusively in the villages: *Radishevë, Stërnac i Poshtëm, Kotorr, Kuqicë, Klinë e Epërme, Klinë e Mesme, Klinë e Poshtme, Çubrel, Vitak, Klladërnicë, Lubavec, Kosterc.* These first four villages are right next to the village of Kërlligatë and practically surround this village.

A few months ago, I did a test on 37 markers. According to the obtained results, i am belong to haplogroup R1b>L23>Z2103>CTS9219>BY611>Z2705*. On the recommendation of the administrators of the Albanian and Serbian DNA Project I ordered the SNP test *Y32147*,but unfortunately it was discovered that I did not belong to that branch. I'm currently waiting for someone to appear with whom I will have a close match.

----------


## Dibran

> Hi! I am from the village of Sllatina near Vushtrri. I'm a Serb by nationality. My ancestors moved to Sllatina in 1865 from Drenica, from the village Kërlligatë. In Kërligate we moved from the surrounding area of ​​Peje. According to one tradition, we moved to Kosovo from Moraca, but genetics disputed this tradition. According to another tradition, we were Albanians catholic, but we have switched to orthodoxy. Our current surname is Janiqijeviq/Janićijević, and our old surname is Çubrk-Çubruk. We had relatives in villages: Stërnac i Poshtëm and Çubrel. Our relatives from Çubrel moved to the village of Tupalle near Medvegja in 1878 because of the blood feud, their old surname is *Qubrak*.
> 
> I am currently investigating from which tribe/fis my ancestors come. What I managed to find out is that entire northwest Drenica is inhabited exclusively by Albanians from a clan Gashi. Albanians from the Gashi clan live exclusively in the villages: *Radishevë, Stërnac i Poshtëm, Kotorr, Kuqicë, Klinë e Epërme, Klinë e Mesme, Klinë e Poshtme, Çubrel, Vitak, Klladërnicë, Lubavec, Kosterc.* These first four villages are right next to the village of Kërlligatë and practically surround this village.
> 
> A few months ago, I did a test on 37 markers. According to the obtained results, i am belong to haplogroup R1b>L23>Z2103>CTS9219>BY611>Z2705*. On the recommendation of the administrators of the Albanian and Serbian DNA Project I ordered the SNP test *Y32147*,but unfortunately it was discovered that I did not belong to that branch. I'm currently waiting for someone to appear with whom I will have a close match.


The admins of Albanian bloodlines would be better able to further assist you. I think its certain however that you at least have distant Proto-Albanian origin given this clade BY611 is almost a tell tale sign of Albanian origin. How recent that is would depend on what matches you have. You should test bigy at FTDNA. Perhaps you form a founder effect.

----------


## blevins13

> Hi! I am from the village of Sllatina near Vushtrri. I'm a Serb by nationality. My ancestors moved to Sllatina in 1865 from Drenica, from the village Kërlligatë. In Kërligate we moved from the surrounding area of ​​Peje. According to one tradition, we moved to Kosovo from Moraca, but genetics disputed this tradition. According to another tradition, we were Albanians catholic, but we have switched to orthodoxy. Our current surname is Janiqijeviq/Janićijević, and our old surname is Çubrk-Çubruk. We had relatives in villages: Stërnac i Poshtëm and Çubrel. Our relatives from Çubrel moved to the village of Tupalle near Medvegja in 1878 because of the blood feud, their old surname is *Qubrak*.
> 
> I am currently investigating from which tribe/fis my ancestors come. What I managed to find out is that entire northwest Drenica is inhabited exclusively by Albanians from a clan Gashi. Albanians from the Gashi clan live exclusively in the villages: *Radishevë, Stërnac i Poshtëm, Kotorr, Kuqicë, Klinë e Epërme, Klinë e Mesme, Klinë e Poshtme, Çubrel, Vitak, Klladërnicë, Lubavec, Kosterc.* These first four villages are right next to the village of Kërlligatë and practically surround this village.
> 
> A few months ago, I did a test on 37 markers. According to the obtained results, i am belong to haplogroup R1b>L23>Z2103>CTS9219>BY611>Z2705*. On the recommendation of the administrators of the Albanian and Serbian DNA Project I ordered the SNP test *Y32147*,but unfortunately it was discovered that I did not belong to that branch. I'm currently waiting for someone to appear with whom I will have a close match.


Interesting, I belong to the same line but positive of Y32147.


Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum

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## Beki

> Interesting, I belong to the same line but positive of Y32147.


From which tribe/fis are you? R1b-Z2705 is present with almost every Albanian tribe. Even one Gashi belongs to the Z2705 branch, but for him it is assumed that Y32147. To confirm that we are from the fis Gashi, it is necessary to appear some Gashi with which I will have a complete match. In August i will most likely order a BigY test to see if i will form a branch on Yfull and i hope it will help. Soon, more and more Albanians, Serbs, Bosniaks who are the Z2705 will appear on the Yfull tree.

I forgot to write that we have Albanian relatives in the village Vesekovci near Vushtrri. Their surname is *Parduzi* and they are muslims.

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## Dema

I have talked to Beki, my respects for this young fellow. I have looked at his results and we have discussed it. Deal with R1b-Y33200* is that it has high presence at all Albanian lands and a somewhat low TMRCA, therefore it is very tightly connected with Albanians. I would say it is one of ancient Illyrian lines that had a "luck" to expand in last 1000-1500 years after severe bottleneck.

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Eupedia Forum mobile app

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## Beki

Yes, the Z2705 is present in almost every Albanian region and tribe. I'm new to this and Dema knows that and just recently I realized what are markers, SNP etc... Z2705 belongs to more than 300 tested people, but a small percentage of them did the BigY test. This month, two new people Z2705* appeared on the Yfull tree, but a new branch has not yet been formed.

I have the most matches with the Bytyqi GD= 32/37. This means that our common ancestor lived us about 700 years ago.

It is believed that there are thirteen main tribes in Dukagjin (Metohija) and Kosovo, while others are considered secondary or not yet formed tribal organizations. These are the tribes:


*Review of the origin of the Albanian population (with number of homes) according to tribes in Drenica according to data from 1935.
*
*Gashi*
*772 homes*

*Shala*
*266 homes*

*Berisha*
*265 homes*

*Elshani*
*180 homes*

*Hoti*
*179 homes*

*Morina-Mzez*
*166 homes*

*Kuçi of Berisha*
*142 homes*

*Krasniqi*
*128 homes*

*Kastrati*
*114 homes*

*Bytyqi*
*100 homes*

*Thaçi*
*56 homes*

*Kelmendi*
*30 homes*

*Zog*
*25 homes*

*Kabashi*
*7 homes*



The most numerous tribe in Drenica was Gashi with 772 houses. Migration Gashi from Albania to Drenica was from the beginning of the 17th century until the 1830s.

----------


## Ownstyler

> I have the most matches with the Bytyqi GD= 32/37. This means that our common ancestor lived us about 700 years ago.


That does not mean much. Many R-Z2705 haplotypes are within GD=1-5 and their TMRCA lived around 1500 ybp. GD=5 is not low for this clade.

----------


## Dema

> That does not mean much. Many R-Z2705 haplotypes are within GD=1-5 and their TMRCA lived around 1500 ybp. GD=5 is not low for this clade.


Beki tested as Y32147 negative. Due to his unique CDY value he is most likely Y33200* and brother clade to all others under Y33200.

He shares TMRCA 1500 years with all under Y33200 but he has no close matches, most likely isolated branch formed 1500 years ago. He has high chance to find closer match in future, we will see.

He will most likely be in this group as all of these samples below which are smaller brother clades to R1b-Y32147 https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Z2705*/

Sent from my ONEPLUS A6013 using Eupedia Forum mobile app

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## Beki

Another piece of evidence that confirms the tradition that we are originally catholic Albanians. According to papal and ottoman sources, Kerlligate (in latin *Cherligata*) and the other 18 villages in Drenica were mostly inhabited by catholic Albanians. Among those catholic villages is the village of Cubrelj, where we had relatives, their old last name was Qubrak-u.
https://www.koha.net/arberi/8064/pikepamja-qe-shemb-historiografine-serbe-per-strukturen-fetare-te-drenices-gjate-shekullit-xviii/
Pozita-gjeografike-e-Drenices.jpg

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## Beki

I ordered a WGS test through Dante Labs, we will soon find out what branch my family belongs to.

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## Palok

Hey guys, new here. I saw Spaç mentioned here and figured maybe someone could help me out. My family supposedly has roots in Gurth Spaç and is Spaç by tribe. This seems to be supported in that I'm J-Y85522. We changed our last name upon moving to Kosovë around the 1860s. Supposedly our last name back home was Mrnacaj or something similar to that. Anyone happen to know if thats a known surname in/around Gurth Spaç?

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