# Population Genetics > Autosomal Genetics >  (NEW) GenePlaza K25 and K29 Modern Calculator Results

## noman

Hey guys,
Today, Kurd (Dilawar Khan) published a new calculator on GenePlaza based on modern population. It costs $5. 



https://www.geneplaza.com/app-store/65/preview

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## Angela

> Hey guys,
> 
> Today, Kurd (Dilawar Khan) published a new calculator on GenePlaza based on modern population. It costs $5. I have already paid, just waiting for results.
> 
> https://www.geneplaza.com/app-store/65/preview


Interesting breakdown of the Southern European component: I understand why he did it that way, but it's going to mean Northern Italians and Tuscans are going to wind up a jumble of all three. I don't know; I'll think about it; even though it's only 5 dollars, it's not going to tell me anything I don't already know from the comparison to ancient samples, i.e. I'll probably get quite a it of southwestern European.


Sardinian-Sicilian17.5%

Southwest European0.0%

Greek-Albanian

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## davef

This thread might be of assistance 
http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...-GenePlaza-com

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## Johane Derite

Really interesting i haven't seen someone categorise albanian and greek together like this before. I'll be sure post my results here if i end up getting it, i wonder how much greek albanian i get xD

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## Angela

Sorry to be negative, but it looks like a mess to me. Everybody thinks doing a calculator based on modern clusters is easy, but it isn't.

I'll pass and put the 5.00 toward a new 23andme run since they have so many new samples. At least they have an Italian cluster. I just sent out the money a few minutes ago.

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## AdeoF

It's not going to work out, it need much more information in order to kind of work really. Need more breakdowns at least.

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## noman

> Sorry to be negative, but it looks like a mess to me. Everybody thinks doing a calculator based on modern clusters is easy, but it isn't.
> 
> I'll pass and put the 5.00 toward a new 23andme run since they have so many new samples. At least they have an Italian category. I just sent out the money a few minutes ago.


How can I update my results for 23andme?

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## Promenade

I wouldn't recommend this test even for 5 dollars. I received 17% east Slavic and 3 percent Central/South Asian which is baffling

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## Angela

> I wouldn't recommend this test even for 5 dollars. I received 17% east Slavic and 3 percent Central/South Asian which is baffling


What is your ancestry if you don't mind my asking, Promenade?

I didn't mind paying $5.00 for his Ancient Sample run because no other calculator had all those ancient samples against which I could run my own entire raw data set and see comparisons to specific named and numbered samples. This is different. 

At least with 23andme the reference base keeps growing as more people test. It's not perfect, though. Malta, at least, shouldn't be in with the Balkans, and there are other issues as well. They should at least rename Middle East so people know it's Northern Middle East, and doesn't include Palestinians, Jordanians or Saudis. Also, by having a specific Ashkenazi category, the Ashkenazi can't see their constituent parts, so to speak. They'd have to do something like Ancestry, I guess, or Kurd's ancient run. 

None of the tests is perfect.

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## Promenade

> What is your ancestry if you don't mind my asking, Promenade?
> 
> I didn't mind paying $5.00 for his Ancient Sample run because no other calculator had all those ancient samples against which I could run my own entire raw data set and see comparisons to specific named and numbered samples. This is different. 
> 
> At least with 23andme the reference base keeps growing as more people test. It's not perfect, though. Malta, at least, shouldn't be in with the Balkans, and there are other issues as well. They should at least rename Middle East so people know it's Northern Middle East, and doesn't include Palestinians, Jordanians or Saudis. Also, by having a specific Ashkenazi category, the Ashkenazi can't see their constituent parts, so to speak. They'd have to do something like Ancestry, I guess, or Kurd's ancient run. 
> 
> None of the tests is perfect.


German, French, Irish, Scottish and Dutch. I have ancestry from eastern Germany and usually receive east European ancestry, but usually around 5 percent and never above 10, besides this would most likely fall under west slavic or baltic and not east slavic or east "slavik" as it is written in the test. As for the Central Asian I can't don't have much of an explanation, I've never witnessed it with any other test. No test is perfect, but this one appears to be considerably deficient as far as those using modern ethnic clusters go. I wouldn't like to insult Kurd and go as far as calling it lazily made as I have no idea how it was constructed, but the fact that the names of the genetic clusters involved aren't even spelt properly is worrying.

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## Angela

> German, French, Irish, Scottish and Dutch. I have ancestry from eastern Germany and usually receive east European ancestry, but usually around 5 percent and never above 10, besides this would most likely fall under west slavic or baltic and not east slavic or east "slavik" as it is written in the test. As for the Central Asian I can't don't have much of an explanation, I've never witnessed it with any other test. No test is perfect, but this one appears to be considerably deficient as far as those using modern ethnic clusters go. I wouldn't like to insult Kurd and go as far as calling it lazily made as I have no idea how it was constructed, but the fact that the names of the genetic clusters involved aren't even spelt properly is worrying.


No, that doesn't seem to make sense. I really respect Kurd's ability and work, and his transparency with everything he does as well. Perhaps it's a work in progress, or maybe it's better for Near Eastern people. I understand why he would want a Kurdish cluster, but I don't know how that affects the other clusters.

It's just much, much harder to do this with modern populations than people realize, I think. There's been so many admixtures, and there's so much overlap.

In some ways I got much more out of the comparisons to the ancient samples. I could see how I compare to Italians from other parts of Italy, to Iberians, to the Greeks and Albanians, to Northern Europeans etc. Once ancient Italian samples are in I'll be able to see how it changed over time and what groups might have affected it. 

If you want to know percentages of actual modern nationalities you're better off doing a really good family tree.

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## Dibran

> Really interesting i haven't seen someone categorise albanian and greek together like this before. I'll be sure post my results here if i end up getting it, i wonder how much greek albanian i get xD


Here are my results Shqipe. Not sure how accurate. \
*Me(23andme)

52% Greek-Albanian
9.8% Sardinian-Sicilian
36.5% Percent Southern Slavic
1.7% Caucasian

My Father(23andme)(Diber Vogel)

48.2% Greek-Albanian
17.2% Sardinian-Sicilian
33.3% Southern Slavic
1.1% Caucasian

My Mother(Ancestry)(Puka, Shkodra, Mali Zi) - My mothers Paternal grandmother, and maternal grandfather were from Montenegro. The Paternal Grandmother was Montenegrin, and the maternal Grandfather was Albanian from Montenegro. Could explain why she gets more than Albanian? Unless its not exactly accurate. On Ancestry she gets 75 percent Albania/Greece/Turkey, 20 percent northeast Italy/Croatia/Bosnia and 5 percent Caucasian.

53.7% Percent Southern Slavic
32% Greek-Albanian
7.2% Sardinian-Sicilian
6% Caucasian
.5% Bedouin
.7% East African*

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## Angela

Does anyone know what's included in South Slavic?

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## Dibran

> Does anyone know what's included in South Slavic?


Montenegrin, Bosnian, Bulgarian, and Romanian

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## Angela

> Montenegrin, Bosnian, Bulgarian, and Romanian


It seems odd to me to group Montenegrins and Bosnians with Bulgarians and Romanians if you're doing a Balkan split. I would think you'd do western versus eastern Balkans and then maybe put Albanians with Greeks as "south Balkans".

It would be interesting to see then if Bulgarians and Romanians are sort of the reverse of Albanians, i.e. split between Bulgarians and Romanians versus Albanians/Greeks, but with higher percentages for Bulgarian/Romanian. 

I think it's a mistake to use Sardinians for any of this, at least mixed with another group. They're too highly drifted.

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## Jovialis

> I wouldn't recommend this test even for 5 dollars. I received 17% east Slavic and 3 percent Central/South Asian which is baffling


I agree, 0.7% Papuan makes zero sense to me. On top of that, I get zero for Sicilian, despite the fact I'm Southern Italian.

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## Dibran

> It seems odd to me to group Montenegrins and Bosnians with Bulgarians and Romanians if you're doing a Balkan split. I would think you'd do western versus eastern Balkans and then maybe put Albanians with Greeks as "south Balkans".
> It would be interesting to see then if Bulgarians and Romanians are sort of the reverse of Albanians, i.e. split between Bulgarians and Romanians versus Albanians/Greeks, but with higher percentages for Bulgarian/Romanian. 
> I think it's a mistake to use Sardinians for any of this, at least mixed with another group. They're too highly drifted.


I’m not too sure about the groupings or the reasoning behind it . A Bulgarian User scored somewhat of a reverse with 28 percent Greek-Albanian. Idk why the rest of the south Slavs were left out of the reference group. I agree with your suggestions. That’s roughly what LivingDNA has. West Balkan east balkans and Aegean for Greek and Albanian.

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## Dibran

> I agree, 0.7% Papuan makes zero sense to me. On top of that, I get zero for Sicilian, despite the fact I'm Southern Italian.


What company did you test with? Because his calculator only works with 23andme files. Which could explain my moms off results. It’s especially inaccurate for LivingDNA files.

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## Jovialis

> What company did you test with? Because his calculator only works with 23andme files. Which could explain my moms off results. It’s especially inaccurate for LivingDNA files.


I'm using 23andme V5. 

The results from this calculator seems like a far cry from what other tests have told me, including 23andme. I'm a fan of Kurd's ancient calculator; this one, not so much.

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## davef

> I agree, 0.7% Papuan makes zero sense to me. On top of that, I get zero for Sicilian, despite the fact I'm Southern Italian.


Uhhhh...what???? No Sicilian????? Nada?? Shouldn't southern Italians and Sicilians be apples from the same tree? This calculator requires an extended deadline, it's clearly in beta phase.

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## Salento

> Uhhhh...what???? No Sicilian????? Nada?? Shouldn't southern Italians and Sicilians be apples from the same tree? This calculator requires an extended deadline, it's clearly in beta phase.


I’m the “Apple of the same tree” I’m really, very much, Big Time South Italian, probably Sicilian too. But, I also get on some other results, besides my usual Italian percentages like this:
Swallow the “Apple” @davef

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## davef

Ummm ok there was no need for the "swallow the Apple" part. I was just shocked at the zero Sicilian score.

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## Salento

> Ummm ok there was no need for the "swallow the Apple" part. I was just shocked at the zero Sicilian score.


I disagree, it’s not the 1st time that you express, in my opinion border line insults.

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## davef

@Salento,

Ok ok....I was just shocked at the Sicilian score. I don't see how that's insulting, I was just taken by surprise that a southern Italian didn't score any Sicilian in spite of how close southern Italians and Sicilians are. I never meant to offend anyone and I was just pointing out one of many possible flaws with this particular tool.

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## Salento

> @Salento,
> 
> Ok ok....I was just shocked at the Sicilian score. I don't see how that's insulting, I was just taken by surprise that a southern Italian didn't score any Sicilian in spite of how close southern Italians and Sicilians are. I never meant to offend anyone and I was just pointing out one of many possible flaws with this particular tool.


It’s about the way you use a duality Innuendo at times, as an example : “Come out” “Apple of the same Tree” today, and a few more.
Example of a Duality Innuendo: “The apple didn’t fall far from the tree.”
It could be Positive, or Negative.

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## New Englander

EUROPEAN 69.2%
NORTHERN EUROPEAN 31.6%
Northwest European 31.6%
Scandinavian 0.0%
SOUTHERN EUROPEAN 28.1%
Sardinian-Sicilian 16.2%
Greek-Albanian 11.9%
Southwest European 0.0%
EASTERN EUROPEAN 9.6%
Southern Slavic 9.6%
Eastern Slavic 0.0%
Baltic 0.0%

ASIAN 29.5%
WEST ASIAN 26.8%
West Asian 12.6%
Caucasian 7.4%
Southwest Asian 6.8%
CENTRAL ASIAN 2.7%
Tajikistani 1.8%
Turkmens 0.9%
Bashkirs 0.0%
Tatars 0.0%
Uzbek & Uyghur 0.0%
Kazak & Kirgiz 0.0%
SC/S ASIAN 0.0%
South Central Asian 0.0%
Indian 0.0%
EAST-SOUTHEAST ASIAN 0.0%
East Asian 0.0%
Southeast Asian

SIBERIAN & AMERINDIAN 1.3%
NATIVE AMERICAN 1.3%
North Amerindian 1.3%
South Amerindian 0.0%
Central Amerindian 0.0%
POLAR & SIBERIAN 0.0%
Siberian 0.0%
Polar 0.0%

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## matadworf

> Which then brings me to the whole Kosovo mix which is basically more into Ex Yugo, which some people might translate that to Serbians or having Serbian genetics which is a different kettle of fish since Ghegs would be I guess closer to Serbs from Kosovo then Albanians closer to North or North West Greeks. 
> 
> So it's not really a South European score, South Europe for me is like South Italy and South Greece. The Balkans is more like North Greece as it borders Macedonia/Ex Yugoslav anyway


Right so we must be talking about Tosks as the sample group clustering with NW Greeks or Macedonian Greeks in this calculator. If that's the case then why are Albanians in general scoring 100% Albanian/Greek and 0% South Slavic which includes Bosnian, Montenegrin, Bulgarian? Wouldn't Tosks be closer to South Slavs than Greek mainlanders are to South Slavs?

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## alexfritz

> According to the creator the West Asian (Georgian Jew) is a population designated for excess EEF in Europeans. Caucasian is the same as the old calculator I believe. Not completely understanding the results. I saw the results of a Greek Peloponnesian (from a neighboring region) who scored like 5% Central Asian and no West Asian on the K29.
> 
> K 25
> EUROPEAN 88.0%
> SOUTHERN EUROPEAN51.5%
> Greek-Albanian35.0
> Sardinian-Sicilian16.5%
> Southwest European0.0%
> EASTERN EUROPEAN36.5%
> ...


the creator also write in #1
_- There are now 2 W Asian clusters. The Georgian cluster and the Iraqi/Georgian Jewish cluster. The latter represents more ancient populations of the area as they are generally less recently admixed than many of the other modern populations in W Asia._

in addition i read a lot of 'mesopotamian' in connection with that what that means however no clue (levant_n?/iran_n?/anatolia_n?) whatever it means its obv meant something old;

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## Lenab

> Right so we must be talking about Tosks as the sample group clustering with NW Greeks or Macedonian Greeks in this calculator. If that's the case then why are Albanians in general scoring 100% Albanian/Greek and 0% South Slavic which includes Bosnian, Montenegrin, Bulgarian? Wouldn't Tosks be closer to South Slavs than Greek mainlanders are to South Slavs?


Yes Tosks would be closer to South Slavs as they are mixed in with North Greeks not South ones

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## Pratt

> It doesn't explain all the Ukrainian like ancestry he got on the other calculator. If I were looking at his results blind, I'd say he was 100% Friulan or something, which would explain the distance to Bergamo.
> 
> Soory about talking about you in the abstract this way, Alex.


You're right. However weird results.

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## Angela

> Yes Tosks would be closer to South Slavs as they are mixed in with North Greeks not South ones


It seems that both Albanian groups cluster with Greeks, but Tosks even more so than Ghegs.

Does someone have the citation fro Lenab? I don't have time to hunt for it now.

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## Lenab

> It seems that both Albanian groups cluster with Greeks, but Tosks even more so than Ghegs.
> 
> Does someone have the citation fro Lenab? I don't have time to hunt for it now.


Albanian Ghegs settled in Kosovo and Tosks Arvanites settled in North Greece and when I say settled I mean literally mixed with the local population.

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## Modernancientdna

Geneplaza K29 (Southeast Poland Kresy) 


EUROPEAN 96.4%


EASTERN EUROPEAN 78.4%


Baltic 52.6% Latvian, Estonian, Lithuanian 
Eastern Slavic 20.9% Belarusians, Ukrainians
Southern Slavic 4.8% Bosnian, Montenegrin, Bulgarian , Romanian


SOUTHERN EUROPEAN 18.1%


Sicilian 9.3% Sicilians
Southwest European 8.7% Basque, Spanish


ASIAN 3.3%


WEST ASIAN 1.8% 


Caucasian 1.8% Georgians


CENTRAL ASIAN 1.6%


Tatars 1.6% Tatars


AFRICAN 0.2%


East African 0.2% Hadza, Luhya, Luo

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## Modernancientdna

Here is my results Geneplaza K25 before update (Southeast Poland Kresy)


EUROPEAN 98.6%


EASTERN EUROPEAN 86.2%


Baltic 48.7% Latvian, Estonian, Lithuanian
Eastern Slavic 29.5% Belarusians, Ukrainians
Southern Slavic 8.0% Bosnian, Montenegrin, Bulgarian, Romanian


SOUTHERN EUROPEAN 12.4%


Southwest European 12.4% Basque, Spanish


C/SC/S ASIAN 0.8%


Central Asian 2 0.8% Tajikistani & Pamiri Tajiks


AFRICAN 0.7%


East African 0.4% Hadza, Luhya, Luo
West African 0.3% Esan, Gambian, Yoruba

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## Modernancientdna

image.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpg

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## Modernancientdna

Geneplaza K25

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## Timora

Hi all!

These are my K29 results:
Northwest European 33.3
Scandinavian 6.5
Baltic 25.8
Greek-Albanian 15.1
Sicilian 3.4
Tatars 16.0

I have Vlach ancestry on my mother's side, but when I looked into the Tatar results I found some Turkic-language last names as well. My dad's side is Polish, Danish, German, and English.

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## TopLobster

I received very inaccurate results from this test.

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## Ben1234

Please help me with this. This is my first post on here. I have been told that I'm 7/8 British and 1/8 Polish my whole life. I have always suspected some Mediterranean on my Dad's Mum's side tho. And on this it shows me as 14.6% Sicilian. Is it normal for a British person to have that much??? 
file:///C:/Users/BenJo/OneDrive/Pictures/Screenshots/Screenshot%20(1).png

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## Userius

K29 Southeast Polish from Ludźmierz. 

EUROPEAN97.2%

EASTERN EUROPEAN70.0%
Eastern Slavic46.1%
Southern Slavic23.8%
Baltic0.0%

NORTHERN EUROPEAN27.2%
Scandinavian27.2%
Northwest European0.0%

SOUTHERN EUROPEAN0.0%
Greek-Albanian0.0%
Sicilian0.0%
Southwest European0.0%

ASIAN2.8%

CENTRAL ASIAN2.8%
Tatars2.8%

I'm honestly surprised at no Baltic but 27% Scandinavian.

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