# Population Genetics > Paleogenetics > Paleolithic & Mesolithic >  who were the first Americans?

## bicicleur

they were :

C2a2	BY63635/MPB374, BY74777, BY100887, BY104139/MPB378, BY106469/MPB380, BY112376, BY118088/MPB385, BY134626, BY135393, BY142506, Z12675.3 
C2a2a~	BY174874, BY174875, BY174929, BY174967, Y83824	found in Texas 
C2a2b	BY67935/MPB375, BY70269/MPB376, BY73594/MPB377, BY101946/MPB384, BY105909/MPB379, BY108371/MPB381, BY117222/MPB382, BY125350/MPB383, MPB373.2/Y143290.2 found in the Amazone forest in Ecuador

https://www.cell.com/current-biology...gg2cetTqTWGgJM

in YFull, this branch is known as L1373*, 16200 years old

https://www.yfull.com/tree/C-L1373/

there is an older level I in Monte Verde, Chile :

Monte Verde Level I (MV-I)
Monte Verde I is located under an outwash plain.[1] In 2013, Dillehay and his team returned to perform another excavation at Monte Verde.[1] In 2015, Monte Verde I was re-dated to around 18,500 to 14,500 BP.[1] Charcoal remains, charred animal bone fragments and several lithic artefacts, about 34% of which was derived from non-local sources, were discovered.[1]

Monte Verde Level II (MV-II)
According to Dillehay and his team, Monte Verde II was occupied around 14,800 – 13,800 BP by about twenty to thirty people.

ongoing excavations at the Gault site, Texas have discovered a new deep pré-Clovis layer that would be dated 16-20 ka

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## nornosh

This new find of even older remains is very exciting because it means in even colder time in history the Natives reached the continent which is so puzzeling how they managed to do this?

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## Jensen

American history is steadily being pushed back, despite manifest destiny and all. There were probably Solutrians = clovis, red paint people going the other way and even an immigration more than hundred thousand years ago. Im currently reading Graham Hancock and Im adapting to the thought that history maybe have spread from west to east a couple of times. "Terra preta" is worth looking into.

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## halfalp

> This new find of even older remains is very exciting because it means in even colder time in history the Natives reached the continent which is so puzzeling how they managed to do this?


They came from Beringia at the beginning almost of the Holocene, so the debut of the actual Interglacial period. Beringia and most of Alaska were not under Ice Cap, by the time they were on the western coast of actual united states, most of the country wisconsinian ice cap might have been retracted more northernly.

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## jose luis

Conjecture:
Receiving water from the melting ice of the last glaciation, the oceans transgressed the shorelines by flooding the coastal plains and valleys of the retreating glaciers, thus opening the Bering Strait approximately 11000 years ago. This was then harnessed by marine organisms to access the artic ocean's underwater meadows during the summer. Because the slopes of these valleys are very steep (fjord slopes) despite rising sea levels the aquatic channels formed on them remained narrow for a long time and thus the ease of harpoon capture (even from the margins) the large marine animals (mammals), and the small fish with purse nets that, depending on their resistance, could be extended from side to side in the narrowest passages, in this pendular migration. This would be an abundant source of food and canning, whale oil, skins and bones to make kayaks, ..., and thus sustain the early Holocene expansion of the Beringian populations over the populations of eastern Siberia and the western American Arctic.

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## dnsn107

I believe I heard that C2a2b	BY67935/MPB375, BY70269/MPB376, BY73594/MPB377, BY101946/MPB384, BY105909/MPB379, BY108371/MPB381, BY117222/MPB382, BY125350/MPB383 is actually recently contested.

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## jose luis

Anyway, during the opening of the Bering Strait there must have been a great abundance of marine resources, even after the initial facility had been over for a long time it would still be possible to divert the cetaceans from the summer fattening to the lateral fjords where they could be slaughtered by the dozens. In post # 5 I was wrong where I wrote canning should have written preserved foods.

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## jose luis

It is not around the opening of the Bering Strait that there is genetic diversification in the population of beringia, indicating that there has been an increase in population, or the opening of the Bering Strait has occurred in a rapid crisis, like the rupture of Lake Agaziz, and everything I said is just an exercise in epic poetry?

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## JacobP

Simple as that,there were at least two migration routes,the first one,roughly 20,000 years ago,which moved on to be the ancestors of the Na-Dene peoples carrying the C2a Y-chromosome haplogroup.The second one,roughly 15,000 years ago,became the ancestors of the vast majority of Native Americans,which are the carriers of the Y-chromosomal haplogroup Q.

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## jose luis

In addition to other sources pointing in the same direction, in the paper behind this thread, the authors expressly propose: - "the deep branches of the Q-CTS1780 lineage present at low frequencies throughout the Americas today [12] may reflect a separate out-of-Beringia dispersal after the melting of the glaciers at the end of the Pleistocene. " In Beringia at the end of the Pleistocene which human groups have come up with new techniques for hunting, fishing and stoneworking, which would give them a decisive advantage to penetrate already occupied territories, what cultural innovations? -Do not know. In geography there is a major change, it is at this point that at one stroke the most populous part of Beringia, the plain / mammoth steppe is submerged by the ocean, because it is all about the same height from the level of the sea. This process is slowing down as the sea progresses through steeper lands, continuing to centrifuge populations, although not with the violence of the initial flood. Finally the Bering Strait is reopened, initially a corridor along which the Cetaceans, etc. will be elbowing in its seasonal migrations, making it easy to capture, which as I have explained in previous posts will have fed a powerful "demographic engine" capable of making itself feeled at a continental level, which would explain the deep branches of the Q-CTS1780 lineage present at low frequencies throughout the Americas today. In the paper the authors also propose "a scenario of a circum-Arctic gene flow through the Bering Strait during the Holocene has been proposed to explain the spread of many derived traits of the skulls found in Native Asians and Americans, as well as some rare Y and mtDNA lineages", here, too must enter the defrost factor as opening of new communication channels.

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## bicicleur

> I believe I heard that C2a2b	BY67935/MPB375, BY70269/MPB376, BY73594/MPB377, BY101946/MPB384, BY105909/MPB379, BY108371/MPB381, BY117222/MPB382, BY125350/MPB383 is actually recently contested.


ISSOG has this branch split in 2 : a branch in Texas, and a branch in the Ammazone of Equador

YFull know also has identified a man from Equador : L1373*

https://www.yfull.com/tree/C-L1373/

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## jose luis

New paper on this matters :


https://doi.org/10.1101/2020.01.24.918425

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## jose luis

Another New paper on this matters:


https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0227444

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