# Humanities & Anthropology > Anthropology & Ethnography > Guess the Ethnicity >  What nationality are these people?

## Angela

1.

2.

3.[IMG][/IMG]



4.[IMG][/IMG]

5.

6.

----------


## Joey37

1: Icelandic
2: Romanian
3: Slovenian
4: Italian
5: English
6: French

----------


## hrvat22

1. Denmark
2. Spanish
3. English
4. France
5. Switzerland
6. Italy

----------


## paul333

1 Scottish
2 Irish
3 Greek
4 Italian
5 English
6 Irish

----------


## davef

1. Irish
2. Tricky...Eastern European?
3. German
4. Swiss
5. German
6. Italian

----------


## Angela

I won't reveal until we have some more. 

One person got one right. Two are sort of right.

----------


## ToBeOrNotToBe

Irish or something quirky like a Finn/Udmurt, 

Ukrainian (broadly something NW of Black Sea though perhaps even edging towards f.e. Southern Poland), 

Czechoslovak, 

Western British Isles/French/N. Spanish (very hard to tell, she’s just a good-looking brunette), 

English, 

Northern Italian (this one could fit in so many places along a belt from most of France and the Alpine areas of Central Europe and across Southern Eastern Europe including Southern Russia)

----------


## Angela

> Irish or something quirky like a Finn/Udmurt, Ukrainian (broadly something NW of Black Sea though perhaps even edging towards f.e. Southern Poland), Czechoslovak, Western British Isles/French/N. Spanish (very hard to tell, she’s just a good-looking brunette), English, Northern Italian (this one could fit in so many places along a belt from most of France and the Alpine areas of Central Europe and across Southern Eastern Europe including Southern Russia)


Sorry, can't tell who is who, and you only have five? Could you number them?

----------


## ToBeOrNotToBe

Edited it into paragrapgs

----------


## td120

1.Scando-Brit
2.French
3.Spanish
4.Italian
5.Czech;Slovak(something very German there too)
6.Italian

----------


## Yetos

1 Netherlands (Ireland)

2 Romania (Yugoslavia)

3 Greece (Bulgaria-Turkey)

4 Italy

5 Germany (Poland -Czeck)

6 Some West Europe

----------


## Nik

1. Belgian/Dutch
2. Spanish
3. British
4. Swiss/French
5. German
6. Italian

----------


## Carlos

1 France
2 Ireland
3 Belgium
4 Slovakia
5 Spain
6 Greece

----------


## Angela

Anyone else want to give it a try? One person got three correct if I allow approximately correct answers. :)

----------


## mitty

1. Irish
2. French
3. Slovenian
4. Scottish
5. Dutch
6. English

----------


## Angela

> 1. Irish
> 2. French
> 3. Slovenian
> 4. Scottish
> 5. Dutch
> 6. English


I'll give you three. :)

Carlos: 1

Nik: 1

Yetos: 1

td120: 1

ToBe: 2

Davef: 1

Paul: 3 if I'm generous :)

Hrvat: 0

Joey: 0

I didn't think it would be this hard. Only 1 is a joke/trick. 

I'll wait a while to see if there are any more guesses and then I'll reveal.

----------


## Duarte

1. Irish;
2. Spaniard; 
3. Italian; 
4. English;
5. German; 
6. French 
:)

----------


## Angela

Ok, I'll reveal:

1,2, and 3 are Welsh. If you listed one of the Celtic fringe countries I think you can count that as a win. Two and three are from a Welsh tv series I watched two weeks ago through amazon/acorn called "Keeping Faith". It's quite good, well acted and well plotted. Another one is called "Hidden". Honestly, it was well done, but so damn gloomy and depressing: weather, lighting, people, situations. I'm susceptible to being influenced by what I see, so it was a bad decision.

Lowry Palfrey:


Bradley Freegard and Eva Miles, who played the lead in bleached blonde hair.


I haven't seen their 23andme results, but it's a completely Welsh production, and they were born in little Welsh towns.

4 and 6 are both Irish actresses from an Irish police procedural also on acorn. Not "as" depressing as "Hidden" above, but pretty "dark". I do get why so many people said Italian for number four. I thought she might be as well. In fact, she looks like me. :) However, I looked her up and she is indeed of Irish descent. 


Natalie Radmall Quirke:





Maria Kennedy Doyle:


She's also a folk singer, with quite a discography, and played Catherine of Aragon in the Tudors. Decent accent work, I think. Of course, the real Catherine had reddish hair, which I think is difficult for Anglos to visualize. :)




People from Britain got more of these right because they're familiar with the phenotypes in Britain.


Number 5 was the "tricky" one. She's my father's cousin, so Emilian from the Appennines. :)

----------


## Nik

> 6.


This one must be an American mix

Edit: Just saw the results

----------


## Angela

> This one must be an American mix
> 
> Edit: Just saw the results


No, as I said, as Irish as they come. The British Isles members got it; they recognized the phenotypes.

Younger:

----------


## davef

> I'll give you three. :)
> 
> Carlos: 1
> 
> Nik: 1
> 
> Yetos: 1
> 
> td120: 1
> ...


Uuughhh...1/6..we all failed  :Poh: . We seriously need tutoring sessions :)

----------


## TardisBlue

> No, as I said, as Irish as they come. The British Isles members got it; they recognized the phenotypes.
> 
> Younger:


OMG, I didn't even recognize her on that 1st pic you posted. I've only seen her in the Commitments and period movies/series, but not in real life. I would have said Spanish.

----------


## Angela

> OMG, I didn't even recognize her on that 1st pic you posted. I've only seen her in the Commitments and period movies/series, but not in real life. I would have said Spanish.


The picture of her in the original post isn't actually from "real life". It's from the tv series I mentioned. It's called "Striking Out". The one of her as a young woman and the one at the award show are obviously from her private life. 

As you can see, I'm rather addicted to "crime" dramas. :)

I'm a bit surprised these were that difficult. They weren't intended to be. Maybe it's because I've been surrounded by Irish people since we immigrated to the U.S. Well, and Southern Italians, and Ashkenazi Jews, and quite a few Germans too. You learn to distinguish them. :)

----------


## Carlos

The 4, 5 and 6 are the ones that were most familiar to me, even the 4 I was about to say also Spain. The 5 was very familiar to me from one moment to another I had the perception that I could communicate in Spanish with her, her lips, her attitude and look were recognizable to me, despite the fact that it might seem simple German or similar.

----------


## davef

> The picture of her in the original post isn't actually from "real life". It's from the tv series I mentioned. It's called "Striking Out". The one of her as a young woman and the one at the award show are obviously from her private life. 
> 
> As you can see, I'm rather addicted to "crime" dramas. :)
> 
> I'm a bit surprised these were that difficult. They weren't intended to be. Maybe it's because I've been surrounded by Irish people since we immigrated to the U.S. Well, and Southern Italians, and Ashkenazi Jews, and quite a few Germans too. You learn to distinguish them. :)


I actually found this one very difficult myself...I guess I'm not very familiar with certain northwestern european characteristics

----------


## Yetos

Angela come on

No 5 is Italian?

come on,

----------


## Angela

From looking at the pictures over and over again, I've realized, although I probably noticed it subconsciously from the beginning, that all of them except the man, and oddly, my cousin, have my nose to one degree or another: long, straight, narrow at the top but broader at the tip, and that includes the redhead. 

In my area they call it a "French" nose. I don't know what that means exacty. Maybe it's a sort of nose that sometimes appeared in the Celts and is more common across the border in France? My impression has been that most of the Iberians don't have it, do they? Maybe they do. Anyway, I got it from my mother. 

I know what you mean about my cousin. Yes, she had light hair and eyes, and a round face, although I think that was partly because, like some Emilians, she got heavy with age, but she has a very, to me, Italian "expression". I'll give you maybe Spanish as well. :) That's what sometimes gives away "nationality" to me. It's why, along with the general physical resemblance, I thought number 4 might be Italian or part Italian, and why I didn't think number 6 looked Italian at all. She has such a severe "resting" face, although she looks quite pleasant when she smiles. Anyway, thank God for my mother's fast metabolism, or I'd wind up looking like my cousin in old age, probably.

----------


## Angela

> Angela come on
> 
> No 5 is Italian?
> 
> come on,


Now I'm insulted "and" angry. I strike you as the kind of person who would lie about my family?

Dump your stereotypes and look at this Italian skier. See the hat? It says Parmigiano Reggiano. That's generally where he's from, and that's where my father's family is from, and my cousin Martina.



Giuliano Razzano, Emilian. Is that Italian enough for you?

Cousin:
[IMG][/IMG]

Cousin:
[IMG][/IMG]

Young cousins:

[IMG][/IMG]

Girl on the left:
[IMG][/IMG]


If you can't see the resemblances you're blind.

Maybe you might want to take a look at this gallery I posted, too.
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...light=Parmense

Or this one:
https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...astern+Liguria

It might stop you from being so stereotypical in your thinking. There are a variety of looks but the one we're discussing is among them. It's not common, but it's not rare either.

----------


## Yetos

Angela

Don't pissed off.

The phainotype of 5 is not even Meditterean mixed
Ok she is your cousin, she is Italian nationality and nativity,
but I do not think is Italian phainotype,
Here in North Greece such phainotype is not unusual, about 1/10 to 1/5 according area and tribes 
but come on, not at all Neditterenean,

Sorry, I do not mean to offend but she could pass as sister of Mercel  :Innocent: 


 :Grin:  plz don't shoot me,

----------


## italouruguayan

Stereotypes are very difficult to combat ...
During my childhood, my concept of "Italians", knowing my grandfather and his friends and family, all of the Veneto, was: people of medium or high stature, with pale skin, many of light eyes and light hair.
Later, through the American movies and TV series, I " learned" that the Italians "should be" of short stature, light brown skin, dark eyes and dark hair ...

----------


## Angela

> Angela
> 
> Don't pissed off.
> 
> The phainotype of 5 is not even Meditterean mixed
> Ok she is your cousin, she is Italian nationality and nativity,
> but I do not think is Italian phainotype,
> Here in North Greece such phainotype is not unusual, about 1/10 to 1/5 according area and tribes 
> but come on, not at all Neditterenean,
> ...


Did you bother to look at the people in the thread about the Appennino Parmense? As Moesan pointed out, a lot of them look more "continental" than "Mediterranean". That doesn't mean they're not completely Italian, and with the genetic scores to prove it. 

You say that perhaps 10% of the people in your area have that phenotype, but you can't believe the same is true in northern Italy????

Indeed, in some areas it's up to 30%. We have more variety in Italy, not just in terms of genetics, but in terms of phenotypes, than any other country in Europe. Just look at the space we take up in a PCA.

I see I'm going to have to add to that gallery, and the one about the Lunigiana.

You wouldn't get pissed off if someone accused you of lying about your family? It's a good thing you weren't in front of me when I read it, Yetos. I could scare my husband when I was in a temper. I bet I could scare you. :) A good schiaffo would be the least of it. 

Oh, and my cousin was prettier than Merkel ever was. Just look at the pictures of my younger cousins. The only difference was that she had lighter hair. 


Actually, in some pictures, she could have passed quite well in places in Northern Italy.



@italo,
Thank you. At least someone gets it. :)

----------


## Angela

> Did you bother to look at the people in the thread about the Appennino Parmense? As Moesan pointed out, a lot of them look more "continental" than "Mediterranean". That doesn't mean they're not completely Italian, and with the genetic scores to prove it. 
> 
> You say that perhaps 10% of the people in your area have that phenotype, but you can't believe the same is true in northern Italy????
> 
> Indeed, in some areas it's up to 30%. We have more variety in Italy, not just in terms of genetics, but in terms of phenotypes, than any other country in Europe. Just look at the space we take up in a PCA.
> 
> I see I'm going to have to add to that gallery, and the one about the Lunigiana.
> 
> You wouldn't get pissed off if someone accused you of lying about your family? It's a good thing you weren't in front of me when I read it, Yetos. I could scare my husband when I was in a temper. I bet I could scare you. :) A good schiaffo would be the least of it. 
> ...


Another Welsh girl with that phenotype, and also a Lowry. :)


Clarice Van Hooten (Melisandre from Game of Thrones) has it too, although she's Dutch:
[IMG][IMG][/IMG][/IMG]

An Italian approximation:

[IMG][/IMG]

----------


## mitty

I can't believe I didn't get no. 3, Bradley Freegard! I watched every episode of "Keeping Faith" - but he is older now than in the picture, with a fuller face. He is from south Wales, his wife Eve Myles (who played Faith) from south west Wales. He does look a lot like the Welsh girl in pic no. 3 above.

I do agree that it is not only looks, but facial expressions and mannerisms that tell you a person's ethnicity. My daughter lives in a very diverse part of a large city, but when I am there, I can tell the Brits simply by the way they walk. Whereas people from eastern Europe have a different gait and and a far more serious mien, although they are friendly enough once you get to know them. 

Thing about the Welsh is they gesticulate a lot, far more than the English. To watch a group of Welshmen talking together, you could almost believe them to be Mediterranean!

----------


## [email protected]

> No, as I said, as Irish as they come. The British Isles members got it; they recognized the phenotypes.
> 
> Younger:


Oh my, I loved her in The Commitments. Such a voice. I assumed she was a professional singer, not a professional actor. I rewatch that film several times a year.

----------


## [email protected]

And . . . I assume everyone gets your point that you can't reliably identify nationality, or local ethnicity, through facial characteristics; Europe is just too much of a genetic mishmash. That was your point, wasn't it?

----------


## Angela

> And . . . I assume everyone gets your point that you can't reliably identify nationality, or local ethnicity, through facial characteristics; Europe is just too much of a genetic mishmash. That was your point, wasn't it?


That's indeed part of my point, and I wouldn't assume everyone accepts it.

Stereotypes in terms of phenotype are sometimes correct, but sometimes they're not. In terms of the people of the British Isles, a lot of Americans seem to think they're all blonde and blue eyed. 

Mostly, though, it's just a fun game.

----------


## davef

Im the same way. I've always assumed that these northwestern Europeans of Irish/British descent were mostly lighter skinned with blonde, dirty blonde or reddish hair until I've seen images of them on this site and so I stand corrected. Threads like this teach me quite a bit about Europeans and their various phenotypes.

----------


## TardisBlue

Even if all that is said above is true, I sometimes wonder at the apparent ability of some people to successfully spot someone's nationality, maybe it has more to do with the "vibe" that emanates from someone than the actual phenotype?

Still strictly for fun, where do these peeps might come from?

1/



2/


3/


4/


5/


6/


7/


8/

----------


## td120

MJ's ancestry (#6) was quite surprising I must admit ...

Well my first answer would be Italian (except for MJ)...but then I am not very good at this.

----------


## Angela

They're tough!:)

l. British Isles-English I'd say.
2. I know who he is so I won't cheat. :)
3. Italian or French. I'll go with French.
4. Gives me a Nureyev vibe. Something eastern, maybe Russian or somewhere in the Soviet sphere?
5. Definitely not British Isles. She's not Italian or Spanish. So...French. She's just gorgeous, btw.
6. Northwest European, but not British Isles. She's from the continent somewhere, maybe nearby? I don't know, maybe the Netherlands or Belgium?
7.The man is English. Is the woman Italian?
8. Italian?

----------


## TardisBlue

Angela, good calls for 3, 5, 7 (but only one of them… the other one is wayyyy off lol) and 8. Bravo  :Smiling:  Because indeed, they are quite tough. 
td120, indeed, 6 is quite surprising - who would have guessed?
I'll wait till tomorrow before revealing these charming people's respective ancestries and names… This is fun!

----------


## Angela

> Angela, good calls for 3, 5, 7 (but only one of them… the other one is wayyyy off lol) and 8. Bravo  Because indeed, they are quite tough. 
> td120, indeed, 6 is quite surprising - who would have guessed?
> I'll wait till tomorrow before revealing these charming people's respective ancestries and names… This is fun!


Ah...I wondered about number 7. I almost said they were both British. Or maybe he's a very EEF looking Brit and they're both Italian. :) 

I'm surprised number 1 isn't either English or Irish, and not just because of the clothes. 

I thought he looked like him:


If not, then maybe a Frenchman with an uncharacteristically bad taste in clothes. :)

----------


## TardisBlue

> Ah...I wondered about number 7. I almost said they were both British. Or maybe he's a very EEF looking Brit and they're both Italian. :)


Ah! They're my paternal grandparents, both from the Napoli district  :Smiling:  If we want to nitpick, he wasn't born in Italy (she was), but the pedigree is full Campanian.




> I'm surprised number 1 isn't either English or Irish, and not just because of the clothes.


Lol, please don't hate the clothes, the pic was taken in the 70's. It's my maternal uncle, French.
I always thought or heard that he looked Mediterranean, but one thing I've learnt from perusing this forum is that it's not the hair colour or skin tone that matter but the features, so I understand now why he may pass as British.

Now, on to the others:

1/ Scottish actor of Irish descent Gerard Butler (for those who didn't recognize him)

3/ French actor Gérard Lanvin in his youth. Born near Paris, from a Parisian family.

4/ François Duval - French actor from the 80's. I wasn't able to find out from which area of France he comes from. Mostly known for his role in the excellent French series La Chambre des Dames, based on a novel by the same name (unfortunately, the series is only available in French with no subtitles). The pic is a still from the series, which is set in Medieval France. I understand the Russian vibe!

5/ French actress Véronique Jannot in her youth. She was born in Haute-Savoie.

6/ French actress Marlène Jobert, mother of actress Eva Green. Her father is French (the Jobert surname is most common in North-Eastern France), her mother is Sefardi Jewish, from Algeria. I guess she takes after her father.

8/ French sculptor or Italian descent Paul Belmondo, father of actor Jean-Paul Belmondo. Paul's father was from Piedmont, his mother from Sicily. His maternal gm was famous Napolitan dancer Francesca Cerrito (thanks, Wikipedia).

Et voilà!

----------


## Angela

> Ah! They're my paternal grandparents, both from the Napoli district  If we want to nitpick, he wasn't born in Italy (she was), but the pedigree is full Campanian.
> 
> 
> 
> Lol, please don't hate the clothes, the pic was taken in the 70's. It's my maternal uncle, French.
> I always thought or heard that he looked Mediterranean, but one thing I've learnt from perusing this forum is that it's not the hair colour or skin tone that matter but the features, so I understand now why he may pass as British.
> 
> Now, on to the others:
> 
> ...


3.5 out of seven. (I won't count Butler; I would have guessed him anyway). 

I'm slipping. :)

Yeah, I would never have gotten number four. He just looks Russian to me. 

Nureyev



Number six was really hard as well. I knew she was northwest European, but I thought more north of France. 


One reason I knew number 8 was Italian?
Rosanno Brazzi


Gosh, my mom loved him. I did too. I watched all his old movies on television, although my favorite is "Summertime". That's when I fell in love with Venice.




Those kind of resemblances can lead you astray though. I do think your uncle looks like Robert Vaughn. :) ( I apologize for the comment about the clothes.) 

Now I just looked him up and his mother's name was Claudel, a surname most common in France!

Those were very good, Tardis. Lots of diversity in France, as in Italy.

----------


## Regio X

deleted by poster

----------


## bigsnake49

Guess this guy's ethnicity:
https://imgur.com/Pm6ZVUN

----------


## Angela

> Guess this guy's ethnicity:
> https://imgur.com/Pm6ZVUN


Greek. Very handsome. 

Could be Italian as well, but I'll go with Greek.

----------


## bigsnake49

> Greek. Very handsome. 
> 
> Could be Italian as well, but I'll go with Greek.


Partially right, Angela. Greek/Italian/English/Irish/French/German mutt. My son :). The English/Irish/French/German part come from my father in law's side. :Laughing:  The hair from my mother in law's side (Italian).

----------


## Angela

> Partially right, Angela. Greek/Italian/English/Irish/French/German mutt. My son :). The English/Irish/French/German part come from my father in law's side. The hair from my mother in law's side (Italian).


Well, since he's three-quarters Greek/Italian (50% Greek) I'm putting that in my correct guesses score. :)

Which ancestry gave him the beautiful Antinous nose?

The hair, of course, is gorgeous! :)

He must have to beat the girls off with a baseball bat.

----------


## bigsnake49

> Well, since he's three-quarters Greek/Italian (50% Greek) I'm putting that in my correct guesses score. :)
> 
> Which ancestry gave him the beautiful Antinous nose?
> 
> The hair, of course, is gorgeous! :)
> 
> He must have to beat the girls off with a baseball bat.


The nose probably from the Italian side also.

His hair changed between curly and straight a few times and so did the color. I will put together a collage of the many changes.

He does OK with the girls although he is a one woman man, unlike his father who played the field at his age ;).

----------


## bigsnake49

The stages of a one's hair:
https://imgur.com/mFKtT7i
https://imgur.com/Ii9iNck
https://imgur.com/5EcdS3l
https://imgur.com/Nn6QYuK
https://imgur.com/q6Wdiei

He just could not decide whether he wanted to be blond, brown or red haired or curly, wavy or straight.

----------


## Angela

> The stages of a one's hair:
> https://imgur.com/mFKtT7i
> https://imgur.com/Ii9iNck
> https://imgur.com/5EcdS3l
> https://imgur.com/Nn6QYuK
> https://imgur.com/q6Wdiei
> 
> He just could not decide whether he wanted to be blond, brown or red haired or curly, wavy or straight.


His hair was always great: thick and with lots of body. My husband and son have hair like that.

My son also went through hair color changes. He was born with a thick head of black hair. My husband was overjoyed. :) Then, without it ever falling out it turned blonde and stayed like that until he was in his late teens. Then it turned sort of a medium brown. 

I think that hair color changes are more common than people think.



His hair was already starting to turn lighter.

Then he stayed blonde for a long time before turning light brown. 

Of course, it was my girl who wound up with the fine, thin, straight hair. He also wound up with a version of the Antinous nose. :)

It also turned brown, much to her displeasure, so now she highlights it.

----------


## bigsnake49

My daughter never went through as many of the color and curliness changes that my son went through. She had blond curly hair and then reddish brown curly hair, with a lighter streak in the middle. Both kids have nice thick hair courtesy of their Italian great grandfather.

----------


## Nik

> Guess this guy's ethnicity:
> https://imgur.com/Pm6ZVUN


A typical uber mountain Albanian type and also South Slav from the Dinaric Alps.

----------


## bigsnake49

> A typical uber mountain Albanian type and also South Slav from the Dinaric Alps.


I don't see it. Maybe a Serb from Ljubljana Slovenia.

----------


## Nik

> I don't see it. Maybe a Serb from Ljubljana Slovenia.


Why? You think he's too light for being Albanian?

----------


## bigsnake49

> Why? You think he's too light for being Albanian?


I have lived among Arvanites for a long time. I know what Albanians look like.

----------


## Angela

What is this young man's nationality?

----------


## bigsnake49

> What is this young man's nationality?


Northern French? Brittany?

----------


## Duarte

> What is this young man's nationality?


Rectangular face, square chin and slightly outgoing, light skin but not as clear as a Scandinavian, lightly encapsulated blue-colored eyes, dark tone, tending to green according to the intensity of light, medium blond hair, straight nose. European center: North-Italian, French, West German or Bavarian, Swiss, Austrian or Spanish from Northeast.

----------


## TardisBlue

> Northern French? Brittany?


That square chin doesn't look French to me. Granted, I'm bad at this, and I don't say it doesn't exist in France, just that I haven't seen it much. To me it looks more German-like. So maybe German or Austrian…? (If the guy is actually French, just ignore me  :Wink: )

----------


## Nik

> I have lived among Arvanites for a long time. I know what Albanians look like.


Then you know nothing about Albanian phenotypes. They're "half breeds" at best, especially in Thrace.

----------


## Nik

> What is this young man's nationality?


American. I find it hard to picture him only in 1 country and my first thought is that he's a mix. You know, the usual Irish/German/Italian etc. kind of mix.

----------


## Ailchu

> The stages of a one's hair:
> https://imgur.com/mFKtT7i
> https://imgur.com/Ii9iNck
> https://imgur.com/5EcdS3l
> https://imgur.com/Nn6QYuK
> https://imgur.com/q6Wdiei
> 
> He just could not decide whether he wanted to be blond, brown or red haired or curly, wavy or straight.


did his eye color somehow change from brown to green?

----------


## bigsnake49

> Then you know nothing about Albanian phenotypes. They're "half breeds" at best, especially in Thrace.


No half breeds in Thrace, they kept to their villages and did not intermarry. Plus at least half of Albania is in Greece. We can tell.

----------


## bigsnake49

> did his eye color somehow change from brown to green?


Babies change their eye color from dark blue. His eyes are light hazel. Color depends on the light hitting the face.

----------


## Angela

The young man is Alberto Frezza, born in Milano, raised in Ethiopia, educated in American English schools. 

Here he is playing a fireman, Ryan something in an American tv series:




Had never seen the show (I think it's a spin off of Grey's Anatomy), or heard of him, until I stumbled on an interview with Dermot Mulroney (also on the show) who said he thought Frezza looked very much like him. So, I checked.

Dermot Patrick Mulroney:


Alberto Frezza:



His American is completely American, if you know what I mean, which is why he's not relegated to "foreigner" parts, and given his looks and what Americans are sure constitute all Italian looks, he's never played an Italian American to my knowledge. Always Irish/German, Irish, German, etc.

Yet, in this interview, he looks completely Italian: gestures, facial expressions, and yes, even looks. 

No, it's not just the tan and darker hair with age.

He's lucky: this chameleon ability is very useful for actors.

To be honest, I don't think he's very good, but the female viewers seem to like him a lot. I think it's because a lot of his own personality goes into the portrayal.

----------


## bigsnake49

Northern Italian with a bit of Celtic look to him?

----------


## Angela

> Northern Italian with a bit of Celtic look to him?


And a bit of Germanic. Mulroney also has some German in him. In the show Frezza actually does look like an Irish/German blend. I wound up watching some youtube bits just to see.

Interesting that Mulroney is actually darker, and has a more "southern" nose for all the stereotypically thinking people out there. He still looks completely Irish/German to me. 

Another mostly German, but some Irish American actor, Jon Hamm from Mad Men:


My Uncle Ferdinando, on the left as you look at the picture:



Blue-green eyes, blonde as a child, turned darker haired as he aged. He was 6'1" and sturdily built and strong; very different from my father's more gracile build. My Uncle Luigi, next to him, stayed "dirty blonde" all through adulthood. 

That prominent, almost squarish chin runs through a lot of the central strip of Europe. That I didn't get. I did get the big head and long face, though, not my mother's nice oval.

You can see why William Penn thought the Palatine Germans who flooded America in the early days weren't "white" enough, according to his definition, which meant blonde, blue-eyed and fair skinned. I think he forgot not all the people from the "Celtic fringe" fit that description either. 

Phenotypes can linger for a long time.

----------


## MOESAN

All that shows how difficult it is to give a "nationality" or "ethny" to an individual look; sometimes we can recognize a stereotype but with our european mixings we cannot be too sure of the nationality; phenotypeS have only a statistical value; so it's easier to judge upon groups than upon individuals, and yet, sometimes it is not so easy, according to regions of origin; it's why I don't play to these games too often, I should not have better results than the most of you. The n°5 cousin recalls me some Alsacians too.

----------


## Angela

Another 100% Italian actor who never plays "Italian" roles: Peter Facinelli

In Twilight:


 

In real life:



Not even with dark hair do people see it:


Paolo Seganti;


Two actors from La Meglio Gioventu, one of my favorite series:

Alessio Boni. He has a bit of a Clint Eastwood look to me. 


Luigi LoCascio-Sicilian stage and screen actor and an intellectual. He's a much better actor than Boni, fwiw.

----------


## Angela

@Moesan,

5th cousin? If you're speaking of the non-actors in the personal photo, they're my father's older brothers.

@Nik,

100% Italian, although casting directors clearly see him as some typical Irish/German/English mix.

----------


## Tutkun Arnaut

> No half breeds in Thrace, they kept to their villages and did not intermarry. Plus at least half of Albania is in Greece. We can tell.


Albanians as Dna shows ( Gjenetika shqiptare) have Gothic and Slavic ancestry also, at about 30% of its population. In south Albania is more pronounced. So Albanian phenotype is very wide. One could see a person like him in Albania. So is the case among Greeks but in smaller percentage than Albanians. My daughter was watching a video of probability from MIT professors and happened the professor was a Greek(with accent) but phenotypically he looked Northern, nothing with an average Greek, so probably he was like me, with a distant Gothic heritage. By the way the professor was top of the line, my daughter was so fond of him, because he made probability look easy contrary to her woman professor at college who was making simple things hard to understand .

----------


## Angela

Italian director Bernardo Bertolucci from my father's Parma:


Here he is with Marlon Brando. If Marlon looks northwest European, then so does Bertolucci.



Tuscan director Franco Zeffirelli:




Tuscan folk singer: Francesco de Gregori




He has more refined features, like my Dad...


Zucchero (Fornaciari) Italian blues singer/rocker from Regio Emilia in the province of Emilia. I always thought he looked British, especially when he was younger.





His daughter Irene Fornaciari. I have a first cousin who could be her twin.




I could post hundreds, but I think you see my point. People who look like this are not at all rare in Italy from Toscana north, and can even be found more rarely in the south. You'd have to really work hard to convince me that there's this much variation in other countries. :)

----------


## Tutkun Arnaut

Many Italians have Northern roots. I knew a Sicilian had a pizzeria in queens, "Ariana pizzeria" and the owner was dirty blond blue eyes, unless he told you , one could never guess he was Sicilian

----------


## Angela

I don't know what people don't get. A light haired light eyed Sicilian need not have RECENT northern Italian ancestry. It just pops up sometimes; it's just not as common as it is in more northern regions. I only know one actual blonde Sicilian, and I know hundreds, and she looks completely Italian.

Giusy Buscemi, Sicilian, Miss Italia 2012. The hair is light brown now (and highlighted) although it might have been blonde when she was young. She still looks Southern Italian to me. Absolutely gorgeous woman.

----------


## MOESAN

> Another 100% Italian actor who never plays "Italian" roles: Peter Facinelli
> 
> In Twilight:
> 
> 
>  
> 
> In real life:
> 
> ...


speaking of bones, he gives us a good approach to a predominent element among 'steppic' men, do believe me! no LOL

----------


## Northener

> Lots of diversity in France, as in Italy.


I would say in the Netherlands too. Let's take for example the national sport here: speed skating. The men are pretty diverse....

Ok you have the stereotype North European, like 

Koen Verweij



or Rintje Ritsma



But also

Ids Postma


or Kjeld Nuis





or Sven Kramer


I dunno.

May be the phenotype is not that different (I'm bad in details, you or Moesan know better) but the complex differences between light (blond/blue eyes) till more brown....(brown eyes, hair) are there....(even in the Frisian/ North Dutch area were they mostly come from).

----------


## Carlos

Jesús Tristán


Antonio López


Adrián Domínguez


Antonio Junquera


Alejandro Nieto


Adrián López Morilla


Alberto Sánchez Bey


Juan García Basto


Alejandro Ortega Fernández


Jesús Castro

Men only from the province of Cádiz and there is already a great variety.

----------


## Angela

> I would say in the Netherlands too. Let's take for example the national sport here: speed skating. The men are pretty diverse....
> 
> Ok you have the stereotype North European, like 
> 
> Koen Verweij
> 
> 
> 
> or Rintje Ritsma
> ...


For most of them, light or darker haired, they still look northwestern European to me, except perhaps the first one, who has a more "eastern" look to me, Swedish, or maybe even further east. 

The real exception is Kjeld Nuis. Is he 100% Dutch? He definitely looks Southern European to me.

----------


## Northener

> For most of them, light or darker haired, they still look northwestern European to me, except perhaps the first one, who has a more "eastern" look to me, Swedish, or maybe even further east. 
> 
> The real exception is Kjeld Nuis. Is he 100% Dutch? He definitely looks Southern European to me.



As fare as I know from the Rotterdam area. No explicit Southern European heritage.

Schermafbeelding 2019-06-09 om 15.16.17.jpgSchermafbeelding 2019-06-09 om 15.16.36.jpgSchermafbeelding 2019-06-09 om 15.15.39.jpg

----------


## Northener

> For most of them, light or darker haired, they still look northwestern European to me, except perhaps the first one, who has a more "eastern" look to me, Swedish, or maybe even further east. 
> 
> The real exception is Kjeld Nuis. Is he 100% Dutch? He definitely looks Southern European to me.


His (meanwhile ex) woman is more explicit Southern European, her name: Jill Lauren de Robles.

and looks:
Schermafbeelding 2019-06-09 om 15.32.29.jpg

----------


## Angela

> As fare as I know from the Rotterdam area. No explicit Southern European heritage.
> 
> Schermafbeelding 2019-06-09 om 15.16.17.jpgSchermafbeelding 2019-06-09 om 15.16.36.jpgSchermafbeelding 2019-06-09 om 15.15.39.jpg


I think in his case it's a little bit more than just the coloring. He does have a slightly "southern" look. It happens. I would still think it's pretty rare in a place like the Netherlands, however. It may be just my impression, but it has always seemed to me that "northerners" are more homogeneous in looks. 

There's a slight exception in the British Isles, where, although most of them still look "British" to me, the people in the "Celtic Fringe" areas can fool people. 

Steven Mangan didn't fool me:


Catherine Zeta Jones also fooled me:

This is when she was very young:



She's just an absolute stunner. It's said that her husband, Michael Douglas, just saw a picture of her and said I'm going to marry her. Not a very sound way of making a choice, imo, but not my business.


Mats Hummels completely fooled me:


In Italy, there are places in the North where 20-30% of the people are blonde. That's no longer a rarity. In some isolated villages in the mountains it can reach 60% or more. Light eyes are about 50% or more in the Veneto. Yet, that's very rare in the south. Do you see what I mean? We have great contrasts, not just an occasional throw back or chance combination of features and pigmentation. 

Still, some of our blonde Italians look completely Italian.

Ignazio Abate of Campania (Napoli)


Others don't: Massimo Ambrosini from the Marche



It's no big "WHOOPS" if you know what I mean, doesn't matter in any important way, just interesting the twists and turns that phenotypes can take.

----------


## Northener

> I think in his case it's a little bit more than just the coloring. He does have a slightly "southern" look. It happens. I would still think it's pretty rare in a place like the Netherlands, however. It may be just my impression, but it has always seemed to me that "northerners" are more homogeneous in looks. 
> It's no big "WHOOPS" if you know what I mean, doesn't matter in any important way, just interesting the twists and turns that phenotypes can take.


Indeed those twits and turns are interesting!

In this respect are the Netherlands no one unity, may be it's no coincidence that Nuis is the most 'southern' of the skaters.... Because below and above the Rhine have different frequencies of SNP's that effects the phenotype. Herc2 for example:



North and South Dutch are quite differentiated. (By the way I'm with dark blond, red undertone, and chestnut eyes the twist ;)

----------


## bigsnake49

Peter Facinelli looks Northern Italian/Southern French with a bit of Celtic mix. The Celts roamed Europe for a long time and even stayed in Greece/Southern Balkans for about 70 years in the 3rd cent. BC. I am sure they left their genetic imprint in a lot of places. @Angela you can even blame them for the awful Italian bagpipes ;).

----------


## Angela

> His (meanwhile ex) woman is more explicit Southern European, her name: Jill Lauren de Robles.
> 
> and looks:
> Schermafbeelding 2019-06-09 om 15.32.29.jpg


Wow. She's really lovely. It's mostly, imo, her pigmentation that makes her look "southern", not so much her features.

----------


## Angela

> Wow. She's really lovely. It's mostly, imo, her pigmentation that makes her look "southern", not so much her features.


I'm really not a fan of bagpipes from anywhere, and my father's area is one of the few left in Italy where they actually play it regularly.  :Sad: 

However, one of the people who used to post here was a bagpipe aficionado, and she told me this man, playing the Emilian piva, has an excellent reputation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oA-p...YbE_JE&index=4

Equally bad, imo, is the pifero, which is played in my mother's area as well as my father's, along with accordions and violins, usually.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmZoZ3reTQ4

They're also still dancing the giga or jig, NOT from the Celts per se: it was a dance of the Middle Ages which just hung on in some places in the world. Mountain folk are REALLY conservative.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCEBTf3P_SE


So much better when there's neither. :) One of my favorite songs from one of my favorite groups:




Dastardly men! You have to be very careful.:)

----------

