# Population Genetics > Autosomal Genetics >  Balkan Turks Autosomal DNA

## Thracian88

I took a DNA kit from FTDNA. You can see my result below;

*60% European
*

30% Southeast Europe20% East Europe10% British Isles

*36**%** Middle Eastern

*
36% Asia Minor

*3% Southasian*

I think that my 3% Southasian ancestry comes from my ancient ancestors. On the other hand, Asia Minor is a very big gap! I am not sure what do Asia Minor describes. As you know, too many nations lived in Anatolia and still there are too many different nations live there. 

Do other Turkish, Balkan Turkish and Balkan people have similar results? What does that score mean?

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## Boreas

How much Balkanic are you?

This is mine,

European 45%
East Europe 28% 
Southeast Europe 17%
Middle Eastern 35%
Central/South Asian 8%
East Asian 7%
Jewish Diaspora 3%

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## Thracian88

All of my grandparents are from Bulgaria. What about you?

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## Boreas

Half and other quarter Greece

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## Yetos

@ Thracian 88

which part of Bulgaria?

Kazanlak
Pazardzik
Haskovo
????

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## Boreas

> @ Thracian 88
> 
> which part of Bulgaria?
> 
> Kazanlak
> Pazardzik
> Haskovo
> ????


Is there that much Turk in Kazanlak ?

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## Thracian88

Yetos

Kardzhali and Razgrad. Are you from Bulgaria as well?

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## LeBrok

> I took a DNA kit from FTDNA. You can see my result below;
> 
> *60% European
> *
> 
> 30% Southeast Europe20% East Europe10% British Isles
> 
> *36**%** Middle Eastern
> 
> ...


Run your DNA through GedMatch in HarappaWorld admixtures, post it here, and maybe I can tell you more.

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## Yetos

> Yetos
> 
> Kardzhali and Razgrad. Are you from Bulgaria as well?


No I am not.

Kirtzali I know it has 
yet never been there. 
by what i know Haskovo and Kazanlak has clear Turkish population,
connected with open Asian steppe

but Razgrad I thought they were muslim Arabs or Armenians
not Turks

Anyway the result you post
are not away from the greater area around Balkans and Turkey

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## Boreas

> by what i know Haskovo and Kazanlak has clear Turkish population,
> connected with open Asian steppe
> 
> but Razgrad I thought they were muslim Arabs or Armenians
> not Turks
> 
> Anyway the result you post
> are not away from the greater area around Balkans and Turkey


Bulgarian Turks live as two subgroup, Danube/Razgard group which is more East European and also have been took many Crimea Tatar migration and other is Rodope/Kardzhali group. 

I have never heard that that Kazanlak was known with Turks, There were Turks but with Bulgars , not dominant Turkish structure despite of Razgard and Kardzhali.

My grandpa was born in there...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually, I got upset to not see and East Asian elements in your results. Even not all Turks have much as I have.

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## Yetos

> Bulgarian Turks live as two subgroup, Danube/Razgard group which is more East European and also have been took many Crimea Tatar migration and other is Rodope/Kardzhali group. 
> 
> I have never heard that that Kazanlak was known with Turks, There were Turks but with Bulgars , not dominant Turkish structure despite of Razgard and Kardzhali.
> 
> My grandpa was born in there...
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Actually, I got upset to not see and East Asian elements in your results. Even not all Turks have much as I have.


when I was traveling Bulgaria, before a decade
a historian friend told me many about cities, and ethnicities,
that is why I was surprised about Razgrad,
He told me about Arab or Armenian background

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## Boreas

> when I was traveling Bulgaria, before a decade
> a historian friend told me many about cities, and ethnicities,
> that is why I was surprised about Razgrad,
> He told me about Arab or Armenian background


Razgard is like a capital of Danube Turks, so Turkification supposed to be fast in Ottoman times. it is possible some of them Armenian or Arab

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## Zanatis

So how many % Balkan genes do Balkan Turks have? 

Most of the people I've seen are completely Balkan looking and just backward Ottoman sympathizers. 

I don't claim to have much knowledge on Balkan Turks but the only ones I've known that could really be partially Turks are in Montenegro, while also the ones in Albania who although are heavily mixed with Albanians still retain some Anatolian features (most of them anyways). Then there are some originally Egyptian and Tunisian families in Shkodra, North Albania that also identify as Turks/Ottomans despite being Arabs. Complicated topic I guess.

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## Boreas

> Then there are some originally Egyptian and Tunisian families in Shkodra, North Albania that also identify as Turks/Ottomans despite being Arabs. Complicated topic I guess.


Totally right. I saw many Muslim Gypsy/Romani in Bulgaria who call themselves as Turk.

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## Thracian88

> No I am not.
> 
> Kirtzali I know it has 
> yet never been there. 
> by what i know Haskovo and Kazanlak has clear Turkish population,
> connected with open Asian steppe
> 
> but Razgrad I thought they were muslim Arabs or Armenians
> not Turks
> ...


I haven't seen any Turkish people have British Isles ancestry yet. That is too weird. I haven't heard that the people in Razgrad are Arab or Armenian. I have met a few people from there and all of them are also Turkish.

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## Thracian88

> Bulgarian Turks live as two subgroup, Danube/Razgard group which is more East European and also have been took many Crimea Tatar migration and other is Rodope/Kardzhali group. 
> 
> I have never heard that that Kazanlak was known with Turks, There were Turks but with Bulgars , not dominant Turkish structure despite of Razgard and Kardzhali.
> 
> My grandpa was born in there...
> 
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Actually, I got upset to not see and East Asian elements in your results. Even not all Turks have much as I have.


I saw a few Turkish people ancestry and I can easily say that most of Anatolian Turks have greater East Asian ancestry than you.

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## Yetos

> Totally right. I saw many Muslim Gypsy/Romani in Bulgaria who call themselves as Turk.


That is big true, in Balkans, Black sea surounding, and minor Asia
and not only for Turks, but for many ethnicities/nationalities

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## Yetos

> I haven't seen any Turkish people have British Isles ancestry yet. That is too weird. I haven't heard that the people in Razgrad are Arab or Armenian. I have met a few people from there and all of them are also Turkish.


these are terms you find in Balkans,

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## zagortenay

Hello to the Turkish members of the forum :) Here are my results from 23andme: Surprisingly I have very little Eastern European. My father's family emigrated to Ottoman empire from Mostar about 120 years ago and settled in Izmir. 

*European* 75.3%
==Southern European --- 71.5%
======= Balkan ------------------------- 55.1%
======= Italian -------------------------- 10.3%
======= Broadly Southern European -- 6.1%
==Eastern European ------ 1.3%
==Northwestern European 0.1%
======= Broadly Northwestern European 0.1%
==Ashkenazi Jewish ------ < 0.1%
==Broadly European ------- 2.4%

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## Cihan

I am from Turkey, with three grandparents originally from Balkans. 

I did 23andme test:
87% Balkan
8% Italian
4% broadly Southern European 
0.5% Middle Eastern and North African 
0.2% Yakut

I expected a more diverse mix. I was surprised there was no Eastern European and very little middle eastern. I suppose Eastern European in 23andme coincides with Northern Slavic. Not sure how come the Turkish grandparent didn’t pass on to me any middle eastern. It is what it is.

GEDmatch didn’t add anything, top matches with various algorithms were Greek, Bulgarian, and Italian. 

So I think most Balkan Turks may be more Balkan than Eastern European, similar to Greeks and Bulgars.

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## Yaan

> when I was traveling Bulgaria, before a decade
> a historian friend told me many about cities, and ethnicities,
> that is why I was surprised about Razgrad,
> He told me about Arab or Armenian background


 Bulgarian Turks live in the North East part of the country Razgrad and Shumen and Turgoviste regions where they are more or less 50% of the population and no Arabs at all, also off course they live in South Bulgaria: Kardzhali and Haskovo region as for Kazanluk it is about 6% Turks. The centres of Bulgarian Turks are Razgrad and Kurdzhali regions , Kaznaluk not at all, and no Arabs in Bulgaria, except recent :)

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## Yaan

> I am from Turkey, with three grandparents originally from Balkans. 
> 
> I did 23andme test:
> 87% Balkan
> 8% Italian
> 4% broadly Southern European 
> 0.5% Middle Eastern and North African 
> 0.2% Yakut
> 
> ...


Balkan is Eastern European :)

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## nothingfail

What does British Usles descent mean? It is much clearer when Y DNA haplogroups are pointed out. Does not one carry only one Y DNA haplogroup? How are all those % of different areas calculated? The peoples in South East Europe are the first people in Europe and more or less the same but have become different in time due to various different influences. Most Turks in South East Europe are in fact Turkified locals.

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## nothingfail

It is much clearer when Y DNA haplogroups are pointed out. Does not one carry only one Y DNA haplogroup? How are all those % of different areas calculated? The peoples in South East Europe are the first people in Europe and more or less the same but have become different in time due to various different influences. Most Turks in South East Europe are in fact Turkified locals. Look up the 23 and Me BALKan admixture and I2a1 y dna haplogroup distribution maps online!!!

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## nothingfail

Have you seen the Y DNA correlation between South-Eastern Europeans matching the 23 and Me BALKan admixture and I2a1 & E-v13 Y DNA haplogroups distribution maps? All in South East Europe are more less the same but diverse now due to different CULTURAL practices in time. First People = Thracian = Sklaveni = BuLGars/ BuRGars = Hellenized = Latinized = Tukified.

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## Thracian88

> What does British Usles descent mean? It is much clearer when Y DNA haplogroups are pointed out. Does not one carry only one Y DNA haplogroup? How are all those % of different areas calculated? The peoples in South East Europe are the first people in Europe and more or less the same but have become different in time due to various different influences. Most Turks in South East Europe are in fact Turkified locals.


I took 23andMe as well. I am going to share my results. My Y-DNA is R1a-CTS3402 (or R1a1a1b1a2b3). This one is Slavic, so it is not native to Balkans. I guess, I get 10% British Isles because of mine Celto-Thracian ancestors. However, I have 0% in 23andMe.

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## Boreas

This is my father (all known ancestry is form Bulgaria, all mostly just one town)

Southeast European 35%
East European 28%
Iberian 8%
Asia Minor 17%
Sephardic 5%
Northeast Asia 4%
Central Asia 3%

Trace Results
Siberia <1%
Oceania <1%
West Middle East <1%


Because of his East European Y-haplogroup, I thought East European percent would be more.

Is there any Balkan Turks with significant West Med structure?
Is it possible that FTDNA balloon Jew Structure or mix it with West Middle East/Levant Structure ?

I can't be sure because my mom has over 10% Jew results and our Jew family friends have approved that she looks like Jews, so maybe results are true. Any Thought?

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## NiceIllustrator

* 55% West Asian(*** Turkey) 
* 40% Balkan with no dots on anything. 

But I know for a fact my fathers mothers mothers mother was from Kazanlak. I have 0 information about that, but am super curious.
The only theory I have is that she probably emigrated with her family to the Ottoman empire/Turkey around the time of the April uprising in Bulgaria(1870s).

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## Lenab

So were mine interesting

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## Boreas

> * 55% West Asian(*** Turkey) 
> * 40% Balkan with no dots on anything. 
> 
> But I know for a fact my fathers mothers mothers mother was from Kazanlak. I have 0 information about that, but am super curious.
> The only theory I have is that she probably emigrated with her family to the Ottoman empire/Turkey around the time of the April uprising in Bulgaria(1870s).


One more Kazanlakian. 

Good theory. 1877-1878 Ottomon- Russia War

Results don't like she had any Turkic structure, it is possible that she had Slav background. But this is just my idea

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## nothingfail

> I took 23andMe as well. I am going to share my results. My Y-DNA is R1a-CTS3402 (or R1a1a1b1a2b3). This one is Slavic, so it is not native to Balkans. I guess, I get 10% British Isles because of mine Celto-Thracian ancestors. However, I have 0% in 23andMe.


 It is wrong to call R1a Slavic. More correct would be to call it Aryan (which means BRiGht, for example in BuLGarian/ BuRGarian - yar*ə*k,Ukrainian/ the Old Rusyn - yary). Southern Slavs have a more I2a1 & E-v13 than R1a. For example BuLGarians/ BuRGarians have 44% E-v13 & I2a1 compared to 17% R1a. It seems the Southern Slavs and BuLGarians/ BuRGarians are descendents of The Fisrt People in South east Europe/ BaLKans + Ukraine who were not Hellenized, Romanized or Turkified and dissociated as Albanians. So you know R1a was found at the Varna Necropolis in BuLGaria along with T1 and I2a1 which was dated about 8000 years old.

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## NiceIllustrator

> One more Kazanlakian. 
> 
> Good theory. 1877-1878 Ottomon- Russia War
> 
> Results don't like she had any Turkic structure, it is possible that she had Slav background. But this is just my idea


Yeah either she was a Turk-Bulgarian hence from my 55% West asia or she was slavic contributing further to my 40% Balkan. I will never know, but I would love more info about Kazanlak if anyone more has stories from there or such.

Edit: I have another ancestor from "Boğdoğa" according to official documents, but I have NO clue where the hell that is. I think somewhere in Macedonia, but I could be wrong.

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## Thracian88

> It is wrong to call R1a Slavic. More correct would be to call it Aryan (which means BRiGht, for example in BuLGarian/ BuRGarian - yar*ə*k,Ukrainian/ the Old Rusyn - yary). Southern Slavs have a more I2a1 & E-v13 than R1a. For example BuLGarians/ BuRGarians have 44% E-v13 & I2a1 compared to 17% R1a. It seems the Southern Slavs and BuLGarians/ BuRGarians are descendents of The Fisrt People in South east Europe/ BaLKans + Ukraine who were not Hellenized, Romanized or Turkified and dissociated as Albanians. So you know R1a was found at the Varna Necropolis in BuLGaria along with T1 and I2a1 which was dated about 8000 years old.


R1a is Aryan as you said but my subclade is common among Poles and Western Ukrainians. That makes sense because Slavs established Bulgarian Khaganete in whole Bulgaria in 7th century. As you said, Bulgarians are predominantly Balkan native people, Thracians. But Slavic effect is visible on Bulgarian people. I am not Bulgarian speaker but genetically I am more Balkan native. My Slavic side most likely from Poland or Ukraine. 23andMe give me most accurate result. 
European91.6%

Balkan69.5%

Bulgaria

Italian6.8%

Eastern European5.5%

Broadly Southern European7.5%

Broadly European2.3%

Western Asian & North African6.5%

Western Asian5.7%

Turkey

Broadly Western Asian & North African0.8%

East Asian & Native American0.5%

Siberian0.3%

Broadly East Asian0.3%

Unassigned1.4%

I got 5 dots for Bulgaria, 1 dot for Romania, Greece and Turkey.

My relatives are predominantly Balkan people, South Slavs and Slavs.

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## Thracian88

> This is my father (all known ancestry is form Bulgaria, all mostly just one town)
> 
> Southeast European 35%
> East European 28%
> Iberian 8%
> Asia Minor 17%
> Sephardic 5%
> Northeast Asia 4%
> Central Asia 3%
> ...


Does your father have any parents from Thessaloniki? As far as I know, Sephardic Jews resettled in Thessaloniki during Ottoman Empire. Can you also share his Gedmatch results?

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## td120

FTDNA tends to assign small Ashkenazi (or currently Sephardic) % anywhere they detect Balkan+EasternEurope+AsiaMinor...and so does AncestryDNA.
More than half of the population of Thessaloniki was Sephardic Jewish in the beginning of XX century...

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## Boreas

> Does your father have any parents from Thessaloniki? As far as I know, Sephardic Jews resettled in Thessaloniki during Ottoman Empire. Can you also share his Gedmatch results?


Bulgaria also has Jew Culture, Kazanlak has Jewish cemetery. 

But all his parents from Turkish villages from South of Kazanlık, that is all I know. they all have muslim names.

Which Gedmatch results are you interested in? Attachment 10341

I may agree @td120, maybe FTDNA tends to assign Jew structure. Maybe it is just because of their sample pool

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## DarknessC

Mixtures of populations

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## Pelaska

My maternal grandfather has Albanian-Bosnian heritage and this never shows up on gedmatch calculators, I never score any Balkan but I score Italian and Greek on some calculators.I mostly get score from my father's y-dna (Northern Kurd) and my mother's mtdna (Circassian/Adyghe).

Bt

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## Cihan

Tested my parents with 23andme. 
My dad, with both parents Balkan Turks, got 99% Balkan. 
My mom, with one Balkan Turk and one Anatolian parent, got 49% Balkan, 18% Italian, 16% West Asian and a bunch of other stuff. 

It seems many Turks in Balkans and Anatolia in Ottoman era were just Muslim locals.

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## Wonomyro

> Tested my parents with 23andme. My dad, with both parents Balkan Turks, got 99% Balkan. My mom, with one Balkan Turk and one Anatolian parent, got 49% Balkan, 18% Italian, 16% West Asian and a bunch of other stuff. It seems many Turks in Balkans and Anatolia in Ottoman era were just Muslim locals.


That is true. In Bosnia, in the past, the term Turk was a synonym for Muslim. Even the Slavic Muslims were called "Turks".

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## Wonomyro

....deleted.....

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## Boreas

> Tested my parents with 23andme. 
> My dad, with both parents Balkan Turks, got 99% Balkan. 
> My mom, with one Balkan Turk and one Anatolian parent, got 49% Balkan, 18% Italian, 16% West Asian and a bunch of other stuff. 
> 
> It seems many Turks in Balkans and Anatolia in Ottoman era were just Muslim locals.


Not always. It is easy to test. Check the Siberian admixture. My Mums(West Anatolia) has 8% Siberian admixture in Eurogenes K13 EU. But my dad(Central Bulgaria)has 3% and Normal Bulgarian has less then 0,5%, so there should be some Anatolian effects in my dad.

But your dad could be local as you said. Do you have gedmatch number for him?

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## TugrulC

Can anyone explain me what kind of Turks the east Bulgarians were? Especially in Yambol. My paternal lineage seems to come from east bulgaria and i wonder if they are Gagauz or Tatar but i dont have much knowledge in Bulgarian turks. 
My Y-DNA is I2a1b. Yes, it’s mostly found in slavs but I swear my paternal ancestors look nothing like slavs. They look Middle eastern (even I have dark features even though I’m 95 european, 5% sephardic jew)

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## bigsnake49

Most of the Balkan Turks should be locals, genetically wise. However the Ottoman Empire and the Byzantines before them did move people around when tax revenue from a particular area fell because of war, famine or disease.

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