# Humanities & Anthropology > History & Civilisations >  The Slavic Label

## DejaVu

http://www.vostokian.com/the-slavic-label/

The Great Powers carve up the Balkans

Identity in Eastern Europe has been based on multiple, constantly differing criteria over the course of history. Whether it is language, religion, or ethnic affiliation, identities for many Balkan people have had a fluid meaning. One of these identities is the Slav-ethnic identity, a term with a heavily politicized connotation. Past theories held that that all Slavic-speaking people are of one bloodline and are invaders who migrated into the Balkans and Central Europe. These theories are then used in modern politics to support an outdated status quo or the territorial ambitions of non-Slavic groups. However, evidence , both recent and historic, paints a different story. Slavs are united by the bonds of language, but not necessarily blood and homeland and those who assume the latter have often used this assumption to justify their own territorial claims and undermine those of others.

Defining an ethnic group in any context can be difficult so it is best to start at the beginning with the word Slav itself. The word Slav is ultimately a corrupted form of Sloveni which is what the Slavic tribes called themselves. However, it is not clear if these two terms are synonymous. Slav is a proper noun, representing an ethnicity.Sloveni is a descriptive noun that is a relational term. It equates itself to an imagined or real kinship by way of linguistic similarity between at least two different populations. In other words, a Macedonian cannot technically be a Slovene by oneself. A Macedonian and Serbian can be Sloveni because they both speak a common tongue. In fact, the very word Sloveni comes from the common Slavic word slovo, meaning “word”. Thus , people who called themselves Sloveni were people who could mutually understand each other to a degree. Structural linguistics show that if two words do not carry the same meaning, they cannot be cognates, such as in the case between Slavs and Sloveni. However, the fact that these people share a common language does not necessarily prove that there was a large migration of Slavs who managed to conquer and re-settle most of Eastern Europe and parts of Asia, while being virtually unnoticed beforehand.

Most proponents of the Slavic migration theory focus on the medieval invasions of the Byzantine Empire. Like all other empires it was subject to attacks, pillages, and raids by various tribes. By the 6th century a group of obscure “barbarians” began to amass along the Danube River and began regularly attacking Byzantine territory. Primary sources show that there were Illyrians, Macedonians, Greeks, Thracians, Getae, Veneti, Sarmatians, and Scythians among other nations located around the Danube at the time.

The Thracians, according to Herodotus[1], were the most numerous nation in Eurasia, only outnumbered by the Indians. He writes, “If they were under one rule and of one mind, they would have been the mightiest people on earth. But the unity of these peoples have never been achieved, that’s the weakest point of the Thracians. ” Strabo, in his works, says that Thracians along with other “barbarians” occupied most of the Balkan peninsula, including Macedonia [2]. For example, the Brygians, a Thracian tribe, would go on to constitute the ethno-genesis of the Macedonians, before migrating to Anatolia and becoming the Phrygians [3]. The remnants of the Thracian language also support this conclusion, because it shares a striking similarity to modern Balto-Slavic languages. If modern historians were to accept this notion it would present a huge discrepancy in the Slavic Migration model because it is widely accepted that the Thracians were indigenous to Eastern Europe. *Much of the remaining Thracian glossary is Slavic as the following hypothetical sentence shows, constructed entirely from known Thracian words.*

*THRACIAN: SERDE GORD, AS BRUZA DADON ZELKIA ANA DZVERI OSTA
Translation: At the center of the city, I quickly gave vegetables to the beast mouth

MACEDONIAN: SRED GRAD, JAS BRZO DADOV ZELKA NA DZVER USTA
Translation: At the center of the city, I quickly gave lettuce to the beast mouth*

Nevertheless, the theory remains that a tribe, which was unrecorded before the 6th century, appeared from behind the Carpathian Mountains to become the largest ethno-linguistic group in Europe replacing the Thracians, who were previously the largest ethnic group in Europe. Not only did Thracians territorially cover most of the same regions as modern Slavs do, but their languages were related as has been clearly demonstrated. There are detailed records of the migration of the Anglo-Saxons, Normans, Goths, Tartars, Mongols, Turks, and other groups yet the Slavic-migration, which would be arguably one of the most massive migrations in recent history, went virtually unnoticed by historians. This begs the question -could the Slav label simply be a new reference for existing populations?



Areas thought to be inhabited by the ThraciansThe first mention of Slavs came from Pseudo-Caesarios of Nazianzum in the 6th century who referred to them as Sklavenoi. Most sources placed the Sklavenoi right along the Danube River, and no source indicates a recent arrival. In fact, Byzantine chronicler Theophylact Simocatta gives an interesting perspective as to whatSklavenoi could have meant to Byzantines. He states, “As for the Getae, that is to say the herds of Sclavenes, they were fiercely ravaging the regions of Thrace”[3]. The Getae were an indigenous Thracian tribe that has been recorded since ancient times. It is clear that they did not migrate from anywhere, nor were they previously called anything but Getae.

A possible explanation is that they became labeled Sklavenoi because they, along with other tribes, started to attack the Byzantine Empire. Sklavenoi was a Byzantine-era slang term for the various tribes that began to attack the empire. More importantly, it was not limited to the attackers; it soon became used to refer to local populations who also rebelled against the empire. For example, some Slavic “tribal” names, such as the Timochani, Strymonoi, Caranatianians are clearly Balkan in origin, yet the groups it referred to were still labelled Sklavenoi. Therefore, Sklavenoi, based on Sloveni, came to signify a rebel, with a derogatory connotation. In other words, they did not become Sklavenoi because they exclusively spoke in a Slavic tongue. In fact, some Slavic tribal names have Iranian and Nordic roots[4]. Even though some groups may have used Slavic languages as a lingua franca, the important takeaway is that they all became Sklavenoi because at leastsome of the participating groups used the relational term “Sloveni” to signify kinship. By the time indigenous pockets of population began to support their attacks and started forming rebel enclaves called Sklavinaes, the derogatory term became synonymous with an anti-Byzantine rebel or marauding barbarian.

The fabled migration is conspicuously absent from oral or written accounts in Slavic folklore. Macedonian folklore, still containing songs and stories about ancient Macedonian kings, neglects to refer to Macedonians as Slavs, nor even mention a move from behind the Carpathian Mountains. However, with 19th century nationalism sweeping the Balkans, the Slav term re-emerged as an integral part of one’s identity, this time with an ethnic connotation. While previously denoting kindred people, the 19th century, the era of mass historical revisionism, saw the birth of the new Slav term, Strongly influenced by the German theory that all nations must have ancestors in the ancient world, the futile search for a Slavic origin relied on linguistic and philological enterprise, instead of historiography and archaeology as a means of identifying ethnicity.

The first theory put forth was based off of a linguistic analysis of Slavic vegetation terms. Linguists determined that given the large amount of German loan-words for certain types of trees, Slavs had to have come from an area devoid of those tree-types[5] . The area they settled on was the Pripet Marshes in modern-day Ukraine. Unifying and confining the numerous Slavic nations’ origins to the Pripet Marshes had a twofold effect. First, it demonstrated that Slavic-speakers were not indigenous to their lands, thus justifying the conquest and occupation of Slavic lands. the By choosing to solely identify diverse peoples with the Slav ethnonym the Great powers signified the inferiority of Slavic nations. This label not only associated them with the sense of having no clear origin, but also with “slaves”. This association is still seen in many other languages, with Spanish usingesclavo for slaves, and Arabic using Saqaliba.



Y-DNA R1A halogroup’s prevalance in EuropeModern research has revealed the fallacy of using such an approach to denote origin. In an attempt to solidify the homeland of the Slavs, geneticists isolated a special haplogroup- a group of similar DNA variations-to be the “Slavic gene”. Named Haplogroup R1a, it naturally showed its highest frequencies in Poland, Ukraine, and Belarus, averaging 65%-70%. In the Southern Balkans, however, the national frequencies averaged only about 15%, not nearly enough to show evidence of mass-migration. More troublesome for the Slavic Migration Theory is that some Scandinavian countries show a higher frequency, about 30%, than the Southern Balkan populations do. Furthermore, the one haplogroup that is the highest defining haplogroup for the region, Haplogroup I2, is simply dubbed as being “Southern Proto-European”.

The problem with the Slav title being used to denote origin and bloodline does not affect only Macedonians. In the 20th century Croatians launched an attempt to rekindle their Illyrian ancestry, and Poles their Sarmatian ancestry. Both attempts were suppressed by the Austro-Hungarian and Russian Empire, respectively. By the time World War II came around, the strong unity created by the Slavic ethnic identity came at a tremendous cost. In Hitler’s mind, by virtue of the Bolshevik Revolution having had Jewish leaders, all Slavic people were deemed untermenschen (subhuman) by ethnic association. Since Slavic people like Czechs and Slovaks also “occupied” German land, the invader theory of origins also played nicely for the Nazi ideology. The truth is, all nations become affected by such a titles. Eastern Europe in particular is a treasure trove of vibrant histories, cultures, and people. The ethnic Slav label creates a forged unity, at the cost of people’s identities.

It comes as no surprise that this label was most used during the period of communism and socialism in Yugoslavia. Yugoslavia under Tito’s regime constantly suppressed nationalism and non-state identities. Grouping people under the Slav ethnicity made all Yugoslavs (literally South Slavs) not only have a common history and origin, but in turn, a common future. The Slavic ethnicity and migration also worked well for Russia, which was able to reaffirm its view of being “Mother Russia” by showing that all Slavs originated from then-Russian territory. Greece’s modern-day use of this communist-influenced ethnicity to label Macedonians and others simply Slavs, serves the same purpose now as it did then: it generalizes a group and forces an identity upon them. By painting Macedonians as Slavs, Greece succeeds in blurring the distinct nature of their identity and history by connecting them to the history of the numerous other Slavic nations. Furthermore, the generalization of Macedonians as Slavs, makes claiming Macedonian history, such as that of Alexander the Great, laughable since Slavs are supposed new-comers to the Balkans.

Like all labels, it leads to assumptions, generalizations and misconceptions when heard by others. Fortunately, the move to separate politics from history has begun, and leading anthropologists and historians like Florin Curta, Mario Alinei, and Charles Abraham Bryant now call into question the Slav label and migration theory as a whole. Identity in the Balkans has the potential to shift once more. Restoring the Slavic term to its original purpose-denoting kinship- will not only allow individual identities to be reclaimed, but for differences to be accepted and celebrated.

[1] Herodotus, The Histories. 5.2
[2] Strabo, _Geographica_, 7. 7.1
[3] Herodotus. Histories, 7.73
[4] Book XXIX, 6.2
[5] Simocatta, The History of Theophylact Simocatta. IV, 4.7
[6] See Sagudates and Guduscani tribes
[7] Florin Curta, “The Making of the Slavs” (pg. 8)

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## DejaVu

http://tied.verbix.com/project/glossary/thra.html
*
Thracian Glossary.

*Sources:1. Neroznak, V. _Paleo-Balkan Languages_. Moscow, 1978. 
2. Fasmer, M. _Etymological Dictionary of the Russian Language._ Moscow, 1986. 
3. Georgiev, V. _Ezyk na trakite._ 
4. Duridanov, I. _Ezikyt na trakite_, Sofia, 1976.

Notes for Glossary:
H = hydronym; 
RN = river name; 
VN = village name; 
PN = place name 
Lith., Lit. - Lithuanian 
Latv. - Latvian 
Russ. - Russian 
Bulg. - Bulgarian 
Ind. - Indic 
Avest. - Avestan 
Pruss. - Prussian 
Pelasg. - Pelasgian 
Goth. - Gothic 
Icel. - Icelandic 
Toch. - Tocharian 
Alb. - Albanian

Note: The Glossary is partly reconstructed from hydronyms, place names and other traces of Dacian and Thracian languages. 

Glossary:*achel-* ‘water (noun), water (adj.)’ [Lith. H Akele., Phryg. akala ‘water’]. 
*aiz-* ‘a goat’ [Armen. aic, Greek aix]. 
*ala* ‘current, stream’ [Latv. H Alaja, Lith. ale.ti ‘flooded’]. 
*alonhon* 'a spear' 
*alta(s)* ‘current, stream’ [Illyrian RN Altus, Russ. (from Balt.) RN Al'ta]. 
*an(a)* ‘at, on’ [Avest. ana ‘along’, Greek aná ‘at, along’, Goth. ana ‘at, towards’]. 
*ang-* ‘curved, twisting’ [Old-Ind. ancati ‘a curve’, Greek ankos ‘valley, abyss’]. 
*ant(i)* ‘against’ [Old-Ind. ánti ‘against, nearby, the Lith. ant ‘towards, against’, Toch. ánt ‘through’, Greek antí ‘against’, etc.]. 
*apa, aphus* ‘water, river; a spring’ [Old-Pruss. ape ‘river’, apus ‘spring’, Old-Ind. ap- ‘water’]. 
*apsa* ‘aspen’ [Altin apse ‘aspen’, Old-Pruss. abse, Pol. osa (from Proto-Slavic *apsá), Old-HighGerman aspa ‘aspen’]. 
*argilos* - 'a mouse' 
*arma* ‘swamp, bog’ [Lith. arma ‘bog, puddle’, armuo, -ens ‘the same’]. 
*ars-* ‘to flow; current, river’ [Old-Pruss. RN Arsio, Arse, Old-Ind. árs,ati ‘to flow’, Hitt. arš- ‘the same’]. 
*arta(s)*, *arda(s)* ‘current. river’ [Old-Ind. árdati ‘to flow’, Greek ardó ‘to bedew’]. 
*arzas* ‘white’ [IE *arg'- (white, clear)]. 
*asa(s)* ‘stone’, *as(a)m* ‘stony’ [Old-Ind. as’man ‘stone; heaven’, Avest. asman- ‘the same’, Pelasg. asáminthos (stone) bath’, Lith. akmuo, -ens ‘stone’]. 
*asa* ‘colt’s foot (Tussilago farfara)’. That was its Bessian name according to Dioskurides. It is related to the Lit. dial. asys ‘horse-tail, Equisetum’, Latv. aši, ašas ‘horse-tail, sedge, rush’, which are probably related to the Latv. ašs, ass ‘sharp’, Old-Bulg. ostrý, Lit. aštrus ‘sharp’. 
*asn* - 'I, me' , [IE *eg'hom, Lit. aš 'I, me']. 
*at* ‘at, towards’ [IE *ad-, Latin ad 'to, towards', Latv. ad ‘at, towards’, Old-Icel. at ‘at, opposite to’]. 
*ath-* ‘high, steep coast, a hill’ [Greek akté ‘steep coast, peninsula, cape’]. 
*at(u)* ‘current, stream’ [Latv. RN Adula, German Attel, Avest. adu- ‘current, stream, channel’]. 
*balios* 'white', [IE *bhel-]. 
*bebrus* ‘beaver’ [Lith. bebrus ‘beaver’, Old-Pruss. bébrus, Bulg. VN Bebrovo, Old-HighGerman bibar, etc.]. 
*bend-* ‘to bind’, marriage [Old-Ind. bándhana- ‘binding’, Avest. bandayaiti ‘to bind’, Goth, Anglo-Saxon bindan, German binden ‘to bind’]. 
*beras* ‘brown, swarthy’ [Lith. be.ras ‘brown’, Latv. bers ‘the same’, Old-HighGerman bero ‘a bear’ (initially ‘brown’)]. 
*berga(s)* ‘hill, bank’ [Old-Icel. berg ‘mountain’, Old-HighGerman berg, German Berg ‘mountain’, Old-Bulg. [email protected], New-Bulg. brjag ‘bank, coast’]. 
*berza(s)* ‘birch’ [IE *bherg'- 'a birch', Lith. bérz'as, Latv. berzs, Old-Pruss. berse, Russ. ber'oza, Bulg. breza ‘birch’]. 
*bolinthos* ‘wild bull, bison’. The word is attested in Aristotle, according to whom that animal lived in the Messapian mountain, which separated the country of the Peonians from that of the Maideans (a Thracian tribe inhabiting the middle course of Struma and upper course of Mesta), and that the Peonians called it mónapos. Therefore, bolinthos was a Maidean, that is, a Thracian word. It is compared to the German Bulle ‘bull’ and is derived from the IE *bhun-ent. 
*bonassos* 'a bull' [IE *gwou-, Latin bos, bovis 'a bull']. 
*bor-* 'mountain' [in _Huper-boreoi_ 'those living behind the mountain'; IE **Hegwr-* 'hill, mountain']. 
*bredas* ‘pasture-ground’ [Russ. bred, bredina ‘pasture’, bresti, bredu ‘to cross by a ford’, Balt. (Zhemait.) RN Bred-upja]. 
*brentas* (*brendas*) ‘deer’ [Messap. bréndon ‘deer’]. 
*bria* ‘town’ (Strab.; Steph. Byz. under the word of Messembria). Both authors state the word was Thracian. It is often found as a second component of Thracian settlement names, for example: Messembria, Poltymbria, Sélymbria, Skedabria, etc. The Thracian ‘bria’ is related to the Toch. A ri, B riye ‘town (a refuge on a hill)’ – from the IE *wrijá. 
*brilón* - 'a barber', [Slavic *briti 'to shave', Old-Ind. bhrinati 'he hurts', Persian burridan 'to cut']. 
*brink-* ‘to swell’ [Lith. brinkti [brinkstu) ‘to swell’, Pol. na-brekac' ‘the same’]. 
*briza* ‘spelt, rye’ (Gal. de alim. facult. 1, 13/6 p. 514. Kühn). The author (Galen) saw this plant in Thracia and in Macedonia and concluded the word was Thracian. It is very probable. There are several etymologies for this word, that of A. Fick being the most acceptable one. A. Fick relates the Thracian briza to the Old-Ind. vrihi-h, Pers. birinj, Afg. vriz'e ‘rice’, Greek orinda=óryza ‘rice’, from which the Bulg. oriz. There is an alternative interpretation: the Thracian bryza is related to the Lith. brizdis ‘ling’, from the stem of the verb brigzti ‘to be torn, to get unraveled’. 
*bruzas* ‘quick’ [Lith. bruz'as ‘somebody who runs to and fro’, the Slavic *[email protected]@, Bulg. [email protected]]. 
*brynchós* ‘guitar for the Thracians’ (Hesych.). The word is related to the Pol. brzek ‘a ringing, a tinkle’, Ukr. brjak ‘a ringing, a sound’. 
*brytos* (masc.), bryton (neuter) ‘a kind of ale from barley, a beer’ (Archil. Hecat. and others), brutos (Hesych.), bryttion (Herodian.). The word was used by the Thracians, the Peonians and the Phrygians. 
*bur*, *buris* (*boris*) ‘man’ [Alb. burrë ‘man’]. 
*burt-* (*burd-*) ‘a ford’ [Slavic *[email protected], Bulg. brod ‘a ford’]. 
*búzas* ‘a goat’ [Avest. búza- ‘a goat’]. 
*chalas* ‘mud’ [Old-Bulg. [email protected], New-Bulg. kal ‘mud’, Czech kal ‘swamp; mud. soft soil’]. 
*dama* ‘settlement, place for settling’ [Old-Ind. dháman- ‘place for dwelling’, Greek thaimós ‘house’]. 
*daphas* ‘a flood’ [Lith. dapas ‘a flood’, Norw. dial. dave ‘puddle, pool’]. 
*darsas* (*dersas*) ‘brave, courageous’ [Old-Pruss. dyrsos (pl.) ‘able, brave’, Avest. daršyu- ‘brave, strong’]. 
*datan* (*datas*) ‘place, settlement’ [Alb. datë ‘place, settlement]. 
*dava* - 'a town' 
*dentu-* ‘clan, tribe’ [Latv. gens ‘clan, tribe’]. 
*dero, dur* 'a stockade', [IE *dhwer- 'a door, a gate']. 
*desa(s)*, *disa(s)* ‘deity, god’ [IE *deiwo-, Greek théos ‘a god’]. 
*-didzos, -didza* 'to create' [Russ. so-zdat 'to create', Lith. z'iedz'iu 'I form, I mould', Goth. deigan 'to puddle', Old-Ind. déhmi 'I plaster', Old-Pers. didá 'a fort', Greek teikhos 'a wall', Latin fingo, fictus 'I puddle', Oscan feihúss 'walls']. 
*dinga* ‘fertile ground’ [Latv. dinga ‘fertile place’, Old-Icel. dyngia ‘dunghill’]. 
*diza* ‘fortress’ [Avest. uz-daéza ‘a heaping, a fortification’, Old-Pers. didá, New-Pers. diz, déz ‘fortress’]. 
*dón* ‘place, country(side)’ [Old-Ir. dú, Gen. don ‘place, country(side)’, Greek chthón ‘soil, land’]. 
*douro-* 'strong' [Celt. *duro-]. 
*drenis* ‘deer’ [Alb. dre, dreni ‘deer’]. 
*dul* 'a house, a family'. 
*dumas* ‘dark’ [Lith. dúmas ‘dark, dark brown (for cattle)’, Latv. dúms ‘dark brown’]. 
*dún-* ‘hill, mountain’ [Celtic *dunum 'a hill', Anglo-Saxon dún hill, mountain’, German Düne ‘dune’]. 
*ebros* 'a goat' [IE *kapro-, Gaulish gabro- 'a goat', Old Irish gabor 'a goat', Irish gabhar]. 
*e(i)b-* ‘to flow, to drip’ [Pelasg. eibó ‘to drip, to flow (out)’]. 
*ermas* ‘fierce, mad’ [Alb. jerm ‘furious, mad’]. 
*esko* 'to eat' [IE *ed- 'to eat']. 
*esvas* (*ezvas*), *esb* ‘a horse’ [IE *ekwo- 'a horse']. 
*gagila* 'a jackdaw' [Slavic *gala 'a jackdaw']. 
*gaidrus* ‘bright, clear’ [Lith. gaidrus ‘bright, clear (cloudless)’, Greek phaidrós ‘shining, bright, cheerful’]. 
*gava(s)* ‘county, countryside’ [Goth. gawi ‘county’, pre-Greek gaia, Att. gé ‘land, region’]. 
*genton '*a piece of meat'. 
*germas* ‘warm, hot’ [IE *gherm-, Old-Ind. gharmá- ‘heat’, Armen. j^erm’warm’, Greek thermós ‘the same’]. 
*gesa* ‘stork kingfisher’ [Old-Pruss. geeyse ‘kingfisher’, Latv. dzése ‘heron, kingfisher’]. 
*gin-* ‘to languish, to spoil, to dry out’ [Old-Kurian Ginulle (a stream), Latv. g'nins ‘to spoil, to languish’]. 
*haimos (-on), *saimas (-an)* ‘ridge, mountain chain’ [Old-Ind. simán- ‘ridge, boundary’, Irish sím ‘chain’]. 
*heris* 'a hand' [IE *khesro- 'a hand', Greek kheir 'a hand', Hittite keššar 'a hand']. 
*ida (ide)* ‘tree; forest’ [Old-Ir. fid, Gen. fedo ‘tree, trees, forest’]. 
*iet(e)r (=jeter-)* ‘quick, agile’ [Old-HighGerman átar ‘quick’, Latv. atrs ‘quick’]. 
*iltea '*a chosen woman'. 
*íl(u)-* ‘silt, mud’ [Greek ílys, -ýos ‘mud, silt’, Church Slavic [email protected] ‘the same’]. 
*iúras (=júras)* ‘water, river’ [Lith. júra ‘a sea’, Old-Nord. úr ‘drizzle’]. 
*kaba(s)* ‘bog, swamp’ [Engl. quab]. 
*kalas* ‘district, border region’ [Lith. galas ‘end, border of a field, meadow or forest’, Latv. gals ‘neighbourhood’]. 
*kalsas* ‘dry, dried up’ [Latv. kálst (-stu, -tu) ‘to dry up, to wither’]. 
*kamoles* 'beloved'. 
*kapas* ‘hill, slope’ [Latv. kapa, kape ‘long mountain strip, dune, slope’, Lith. kopa ‘and hill, dune’]. 
*kel(l)a* ‘a spring’ [Old-HighGerman quella, German Quelle ‘a spring’]. 
*kenthas* ‘a child, descendant’ [Latv. re-cens ‘fresh, young, new’, with another suffix in the New-Bulg chedo ‘a child’]. 
*kersas* ‘black’ [Lith. kéršas ‘on black and white spots’, Bulg. cheren ‘black’, Old-Ind. krsná ‘black, dark’]. 
*ketri-*, *ketre-* ‘four’ [IE *kwetwores, Greek tetra ‘four’, Cymr. pedry- ‘four-fold’, Lith. keturi, Latv. c'etri, Bulg. c'etiri ‘four’]. 
*kik-* ‘live, agile’ [Anglo-Saxon cwicu, Old-Nord. kvikr, kykr ‘live, agile’, Engl. quick]. 
*kiri-* [or *kira*] ‘mountain’, ‘forest’ [Old-Ind. girí-h ‘mountain’, Avest. gairi- ‘the same’, Lith. giria, gire ‘forest, wood’. Latv. dzira ‘forest’]. 
*knisa(s)* ‘eroded place’ [Lith. knisti ‘to dig’]. 
*kupsela* ‘a heap, a hillock’ [Lith. kupse.lis ‘heap, hillock’]. 
*kurp-* ‘to burrow’ [Lith. kurpti (-i?) ‘to burrow’, Russ. korpat’ ‘to burrow’]. 
*kurta* ‘groove, wood’ [Old-Pruss. korto ‘groove’ from the Baltic *kurtá]. 
*laza* (*-as*) ‘clearing (in forest), glade’ [Serbo-Croat läz ‘clearing’, Russ. laz ‘animal pathway to a river (lake)’, lazina 'clearing’]. 
*lingas* ‘depression, meadow’ [Lith. lénge ‘low land’, PN Linge, Bulg. [email protected] ‘meadow’]. 
*mandakes* ‘a binder for sheaves’ 
*marieus* 'lime' [IE *mar- 'dirty, unclear']. 
*mar-* ‘water, river, bog’ ["European" *mar- 'sea', Gaulish mor- 'sea', Anglo-Saxon merisc ‘swamp’, Old-Icel. moerr ‘swampy country’]. 
*marka* ‘bog; swampy country’ [Lith. mark? ‘a pit for steeping flax or hemp’, Ukrain. morokva ‘bog’]. 
*melda(s)* ‘marshy reed’ [Lith. melda, méldas ‘marsh reed’, Latv. meldi ‘reed’, Old-HighGerman melta]. 
*mér-* ‘large, great’ [IE *mér-, Church Slavic personal name [email protected], Old-HighGerman Volk-már, Hlodo-már, Old-Icel. már ‘big’]. 
*mezéna* ‘a horseman’ [Alb. mes, mezi ‘stallion’, Roman. (substrat) mînz ‘stallion’]. 
*midne '*a settlement'. 
*muka* ‘seed, clan, posterity’ [Iran. muka- in the Osset. mug? ‘family’, muggag ‘seed, clan’]. 
*mukas* ‘swampy country, a bog’ [Latv. muka ‘swamp, where one can sink’, mukls ‘swampy’, Lith. RN Múke.]. 
*musas* ‘moss, mould’ [Old-HighGerman, Anglo-Saxon mos ‘moss, swamp’, German Moss ‘moss’, Church-Slav. [email protected]@ ‘moss’, Lith. musai, pl. ‘mould on yoghourt’]. 
*neos* 'new' [IE *newo- 'new']. 
*nest-* ‘rumbling, roaring’ [Old-Ind. nádati ‘to rumlble, to roar’, nadi- ‘river, current’]. 
*niva* 'snow' [IE *sneigwh- 'snow']. 
*óstas* ‘river mouth’ [Lith. úostas, uosta ‘river mouth; a port’, Latv. uosts-, uosta ‘the same’, Latin óstium ‘river mouth’, Old-Bulg. uostije ‘the same’]. 
*pa(i)vis* ‘child, son’ [Greek Homer pavis, Att. paus, pais]. 
*paisa(s)* ‘soot’ [Lith. paišai ‘soot’]. 
*pala* ‘swamp, bog’ [Lith. palios, pl. ‘big swamp. bog’, Latv. pal,as, pal,i ‘swampy banks of a lake’, Latin palus ‘lake’]. 
*palma* ‘swamp, bog’ [from pala with the suffix -má]. 
*pan(i)* ‘swamp, quagmire, peat-bog’ [Old-Pruss. pannean ‘quagmire’, Goth. fani ‘silt’, etc.]. 
*para*, *phara* ‘settlement, village’, marketplace [from the IE *(s)porá as ‘village’]. 
*paurakis* 'small' [Latin paucus 'small']. 
*pauta(s)* ‘foam’ or ‘foaming’ [Old-Pruss. RN Pauta, Lith. puta ‘foam’, putóti ‘to foam’, Latv. putas ‘foam’]. 
*per* ‘boy, son’ [Lat. puer ‘child, boy, son’]. 
*per(u)-* ‘a rock’ [Hett. peruna- ‘a rock’, Old-Ind. párvata- ‘mountain’]. 
*pés* ‘boy, child’ [Greek paus, pais ‘child’, Cypr. pas ‘the same’]. 
*pi* - 'beside, more' 
*pinon* 'a drink' [IE *poi-, *pi- 'to drink', Latin pibo 'I drink', Slavic *piti 'to drink']. 
*pitye* 'a treasure' 
*piza(s)* ‘bog, meadow’ [Latv. písa ‘deep swamp’, Greek písea, pl. ‘damp places, meadow’]. 
*poltyn* 'a fortress' 
*pras-* (resp. **praus-*) ‘to wash, to splash, to bedew’ [Lith. prausti ‘to wash, to sprinkle’, Latv. prauslat ’to splash, to besprinkle’, Old-Ind. prusnó'ti ‘to splash’]. 
*puis*, *pus*, *pys* ‘child, son’ [-pu(i)s = Greek Att. paus ‘child, son’]. 
*pupa* ‘beans’ or ‘hill’ (?) [Lith. pupa ‘beans’ or Alb. pupë ‘hill’]. 
*pura-* ‘maize, spelt’ [Greek pyrós ‘maize’, Lith. púrai ‘winter maize’, Church Slavic [email protected] ‘spelt’]. 
*purda* ‘swampy, damp place’ [Latv. purdul,i ‘a snivel’, Greek pardakos ‘damp, wet’]. 
*puris*, *poris*, *por*, *pyris*, *pyros*, *pyr* ‘son, boy’ [Latin pure ‘child, boy, son’ in Latin PN Marci-por, Nae-por, óli-por, Etr. nei-pur, naei-purs]. 
*pus*, *pys* ‘child, son’ - see *puis*. 
*pusinas* ‘spruce forest, pine forest’ [Lith. pušynas ‘spruce forest’ from pušis ‘pine, spruce’]. 
*putras* ‘bawler, squaller, babbler’ [Old-Latv. personal name Putre, Latv. putruôt, putrât ‘to cry, to speak fast’]. 
*raimas* ‘motley’ [Lith. ráimas ‘motley, particoloured’]. 
*raka(s)* ‘eroded place, a gully’ [Lith. rakti ‘to burrow’]. 
*ramus* ‘quiet, calm’ [Lith. ramus ‘quiet’, Old-Ind. rámate ‘to stay quiet, to rest’]. 
*raskus* ‘quick, agile, live’ [Old-HighGerman rasc ‘quick’, German rasch ‘the same’, Engl. rash]. 
*rera* ‘stones, stony ground’ (from an earlier *lera) [Alb. lerë, -a ‘stones, fallen stones’]. 
*rézas* (*resas*) ‘king’ [Latin rex ‘king’, Old-Ind. raj- ‘the same’]. 
*ring-* (*rink-*) ‘quick, skillful’ [Old-HighGerman (ge)-ringi ‘light’, Middle-German ge-ringi ‘light. quick’, Greek rhimpha ‘quickly, skillfully’]. 
*romfea* 'an arrow, a staff' 
*rudas* ‘red, reddish’ [Lith. RN Rud-upe., adj. rudas ‘(red-) brown, reddish’, Latv. ruds ‘reddish’]. 
*rumba(s)* ‘edge; rapids’ [Lith. rumbas ‘periphery’, Latv. rumba ‘waterfall, rapids’]. 
*rús-a* (-*as*, *-is*) ‘a pit’ or *rus-* ‘slowly flowing’ [Old-Pruss. PN Russe (a village and a swamp), Lith. rúsys (and rúsas) ‘potatoe’s pit; hut’, Latv. rúsa ‘pit; or the Litv. ruse.ti ‘to flow slowly’]. 
*sabazias* ‘free’ [Old-Bulg. svobod' ‘free’]. 
*saldas, saltas* (instead of *zaldas) ‘golden’ [Old-Bulg. zlato (from the Proto-Slavic *zalta) ‘gold (noun)’ , New-Bulg. zlato ‘gold’, zlaten ‘golden’]. 
*sara* ‘current, stream’ [Old-Ind. sará ‘river, stream’]. 
*sartas* ‘light-red’ [Lith. sartas ‘light-red (for horses)’, Latv. sarts ‘red’]. 
*satras (satrus)* ‘live, quick, agile’ (?) [Lith. šatrus ‘live, quick, agile, row’]. 
*saut-is (-as)* ‘lazy’ [Latv. sautis ‘lazy man, who sleeps all the time’]. 
*sei(e)tuva ‘*deep place in the river’ [Lith. sietuve. ‘deep place in the river’]. 
*seina(s)* ‘village, settlement’ [Armen. šén, Gen. sini ‘village’, Greek Rhod. kroina ‘residence’]. 
*sékas* ‘grass, greenery; hay’ [Lith.še.kas ‘recently mowed down grass’, Old-Ind. s'áka- ‘vegetable’]. 
*sem(e)la* (= *zeml’a*) ‘land, earth’ [Old-Bulg. zemlja, Russ. zemlja, Lith. zeme, Latv. zeme]. 
*serma*, *sermas* ‘current, stream’ [Old-Ind. sárma-h ‘current’, Lith. RN Sérmas]. 
*siltas* ‘warm, pleasant’ [Lith. šiltas ‘warm, pleasant’, Latv. silts ‘warm’, Cymr. clyd ‘warm, warming’]. 
*sind(u)-* ‘river’ [Old-Ind. sindhu- ‘river’, Old-Pers. hindus ‘the same’]. 
*singas* ‘low land, depression’ [Goth. sigqan, Old-HighGerman sinkan, German sinken ‘to sink, to collapse’]. 
*siros* 'a granary' 
*skaivas* ‘left’ [Greek skaiós ‘left’, Latin scaevus ‘the same’]. 
*skalme* 'a sword' 
*skalp-* ‘to beetle, to hit’ [Lith. skalbti (-biu, -biau) ‘to beetle, to dolly (for laundry)’]. 
*skaplis* ‘axe’ [Lith. skaplis ‘axe’]. 
*skapt-* ‘to dig’ [Lith. skaptúoti ‘to cut, to carve (in wood)’, Greek skápto ‘to dig’]. 
*skaras* (*-is*) ‘quick’ [Old-Bulg. [email protected], Russ. [email protected] ‘quick’, etc. (Proto-Slavic *[email protected])]. 
*skarké* 'a coin' 
*skarsas* ‘transverse, slanting’ [the Greek en-kársios, epi-kársis ‘curved, bent, transverse’, Lith. skersas ‘transverse, oblique]. 
*skilas* ‘quick, impetuous’ [Lith. skilti ‘set fire’ and ‘run mad’] 
*skreta* ‘circle, circumference’ [Lith. skrete. ‘a (round) disk’, skrite. ‘circumference’]. 
*skumbr-as* (or *-is*) ‘hill, mountain’ [Lith. kumbrys, kumbris ‘hillock, hill, mountain peak, small mountain’]. 
*spinda(s)* ‘clearing (in the forest)’ [Lith spindis ‘clearing in the forest’]. 
*spinos* 'coal' 
*stra* (from an earlier **strava*) ‘current, torrent’ [Lith. srava ‘current’, Latv. strava ‘current, torrent’]. 
*strambas* ‘stubble-field’ [Old-Pruss. strambo ‘stubble-field’, the Latv. struobs ‘a spray, a stem, a straw’ ]. 
*strumá*, *strumón* ‘current, river’ [Old-HighGerman stroum, German Strom ‘current’ river’, Lith. sraumuo, -ens ‘fast current’, srúti (srúvu, dial. srúnu) ‘to fill with water’ and ‘to flow, to outflow the banks (for a river)’]. 
*strúna* ‘current, river’ [Lith. sriti ‘to fill with water, to outflow’]. 
*stur(ia)* ‘country, countryside’ [Old-Bulg strana (Proto-Slavic *starná) ‘country’, Bulg. pro-stor ‘expanse, space’]. 
*suchis*, *sukis*, *suku*(*s*) (*-os*) ‘girl’, resp. ‘boy, juvenile’ [Cymr. hogen ‘girl’, hogyn ‘boy, lad’, Lith. súnus ‘son’, Old-Bulg. [email protected] ‘son’, etc.]. 
*suka* ‘a crack, a gorge, a pass’, [Lith. šuke. ‘a gap, a crack’]. 
*sula* ‘groove’ [Greek hýle ‘forest, groove’]. 
*sunka* ‘sap, fluid’ [Lith. sunka ‘sap (of a tree); fluid’]. 
*sura* (*zura*) ‘current, stream’ [Old-Ind. sirá ‘current. stream’]. 
*suras* ‘strong, brave; a hero’ [Old-Ind. súra-h ‘a hero, a warrior’, Avest. súra- ‘brave, courageous; a hero’]. 
*suras* ‘salty, bitter’ [Lith. súras ‘salty’, Latv. surs ‘salty, bitter, sour’]. 
*svit-* ‘to shine, to twinkle’ [Lith. švite.ti ‘to shine, to twinkle’, Old-Bulg. svüteti sia) ‘to shine’]. 
*tarpas, terpas* ‘a gap, a crack’ [Lith. tárpas, térpü ‘an interstice, a crack’, Proto-Slavic *[email protected] ‘a pit, a ditch’]. 
*taru-* ‘spear’ [Greek dóry ‘tree’ and ‘spear’, Hett. taru- ‘tree, trees’, Old-Ind. dáru- ‘tree’]. 
*therm* 'a tribe' 
*thin- ‘*to hold, to carry’ [Latin teneó, -ere ‘to hold’]. 
*thurd-* ‘to crash, to collapse’ [Old-HighGerman sturzen, German stürzen ‘to overthrow, to fall’]. 
*tirsas* ‘thicket’ [Lith. tirštis ‘density, thickness’ and ‘thicket, brush-wood’, tiršti (tirštu) ‘to thicken’]. 
*titha* ‘light, radiance’ [Greek titó' ‘morning glow; morning, day’, Alb. ditë ‘day’]. 
*tón '*a present' [IE *dó- 'to give']. 
*tranas* ‘rotting’ [Lith. RN Tranys, trene.ti ‘to rot, to decompose’]. 
*traus-* ‘to break, to crumble’ [Lith. traušti ‘to break, to crumble’, traušus ‘brittle’, the Latv. trauss, trausls ‘brittle, fragile’, Old-Russ. [email protected] ‘lazy; sad’]. 
*tri* 'three' [IE *treyes, *trí 'three']. 
*tund-* 1. ‘to push, to knock’; 2. ‘river’ [1. Latin tundó, -ere ‘to push, to knock’, Old-Ind. tundaté ‘to push’. 2. Old-Icel. _?_und ‘river’]. 
*tuntas* ‘a flock, a flight; a heap’ [Lith. tuntas ‘a flock, a flight; a heap, a pile’]. 
*turm-* ‘a run, a flight’ [Old-Ind. drámati ‘to run’, Greek drómos ‘a run’]. 
*udra(s)* ‘otter’ [IE *wed-, *wod-, Old-Ind. udráh ‘water animal’, Avest. udra- ‘otter’, Greek hydros, Old-HighGerman ottar, Lith. údra, Bulg. vidra ‘otter’]. 
*udrénas* ‘water, aquatic’ [IE *wed-, *wod- 'water']. 
*úkas* ‘mist; misty, turbid’ [Lith. úkas ‘a mist; clouding; fume, vapour’, úkanas ‘cloudy, turbid’]. 
*upa* ‘river’ [Lith. úpe. ‘river’, Latv. upe ‘river, stream’]. 
*-upula* 'apple?' [IE **amlu-, *samlu-* 'apple']. 
*urda(s)* ‘stream’ [Lith. urdulys ‘(mountain) stream, pool’, Latv. urdavin,a ‘stream’]. 
*usku-* ‘water; aquatic, marshy’ [Old-Ir. u(i)sce ‘water’, Old-Cymr uisc, Irish esc ‘water, bog, swamp’]. 
*utos* ‘water, river’ [IE *wed-, *wod-, Old-Ind. ud-án- ‘water’, Greek hydos ‘the same’]. 
*vair-as* (*-us*) ‘spinning’ [Lith. vairus, vairas ‘spinning’, Swed. vírr ‘a spiral’]. 
*varpasas* ‘whirlpool’ [Latv. várpats ‘whirlpool’, the Lith. varpyti (-pau, -piau) ‘to dig, to burrow’]. 
*veger-* (resp. **veker-*) ‘damp; to bedew’ or ‘haymowing’ [Dutch wak ‘damp’, Latv. vedzere etc.]. 
*veleka(s)* ‘place for washing’ [Lith. vele.kles ‘a place, used for washing’, vele.ti ‘to wash (with a paddle)’]. 
*ver-* ‘to spring, to issue’ [Lith. vírti (vérdu, viriau) ‘to boil, to bubble’, the Old-Bulg. v'reti v'rion ‘to spring, to boil’]. 
*verza(s)* ‘a barrier used for fishing; dam’ [Latv. varza ‘dam’]. 
*zalmos '*a skin' 
*zan* 'a clan, a family' [IE *g'en- 'to give birth, a kin']. 
*zbel- (from an initial *zibel-)* ‘shining; a thunderbolt, a lightning’ [Latv. zibele ‘shining’, zibelêt ‘to flash, to twinkle, to shine’]. 
*zburul-* ‘light (noun); shining’ [Lith.z'iburys ‘light’ (noun)’]. 
*zeira* 'a kind of chiton'. 
*zelas* - 'wine'. 
*zelmis* ‘an offspring, descendant’ [Lith. z'elmuo, -ens ‘plant’ and ‘an offspring’]. 
*zenis*, *zenés* ‘born, born in’ [=genes in the Greek personal name of Dio=génes, from the IE *g'en- ‘to give birth’ in the Old-Latin geno ‘to produce, to give birth’]. 
*zéri-* (from an earlier **zvéri-*) ‘an animal, a beast’ [Lith. z've.ris ‘a beast’, Old-Bulg. [email protected] ‘the same’, Greek thér]. 
*zetraia* 'a pot'. 
*zi-* ‘god’ [shortened from ziu-, zia- and similar, IE *deiwo- 'sky god', Greek Zeus]. 
*zilas* ‘grey, turned grey’ or ‘blue’ [Lith. z'ilas ‘grey-haired’, Latv. zils, zilš ‘blue’]. 
*zilma(s)* ‘greenery’ [Latv. zelme ‘green grass or wheat’]. 
*zombros* 'a bison?' [Slavic *zo.brü, Latv. subrs 'a bison', Old Prus. wissambris 'a bison', Old Icel. visundr 'a bison']. 
*zum-, zuml-* ‘dragon’ [Old-Bulg zm'i ‘dragon’, zm'ia ‘snake’]. 
*zvaka(s)* ‘bright, white’ [Lith. z'vake. ‘light (noun)’].

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## Rethel

Nice theory but it is only whishfull thinking.

This map I saw in a romanian "documentary" film about how pre-Romanians (Dako-Thracians)
were the most powerfull nation in antiquity and how Romans and Slaves destroy their greatness... :Rolleyes: 

According to language and the vocabulary which you joined - it is definitly not slavic tounge...
I see some deeper similaries but they are rather in common indoeuropean level than slavic.

Every slavic language is recognizable by normal slavic people, even without any lingusitic knowledge.
I know polish, russian and read old(church)slavonic. I assure you, that this words are not slavic at all...
With this three languages it is very easy understand any other slavic language, because this three are
most influence and most pattern languages in slavic group - but even without them normal slavic mans
can understand each other in very basic level and recognize written slavic words. 

I heard about the theory, that etruscian language is slavic too. Theorists even show similar
sentences like you did above. So... tell me: which language is slavic: etruscian or thracian?  :Rolleyes:

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## Tomenable

As for the association of ethnonym Slavs with the new term for "slaves", which emerged during the Early Middle Ages:

That association emerged after original Slavic-speaking invaders enslaved many ethnic Non-Slavs, and then allowed them to join their communities (this is one of reasons why Slavs were so successful in colonizing half of Europe in a very short time - they increased their numbers not just due to natural growth, but also by enslaving Non-Slavic locals and "turning them into Slavs", assimilating them).

Ethno-linguistic ancestors of modern South Slavs came to the Balkans from North-Eastern and North-Central Europe after 500 AD. 

I never really understood this whole idea that modern South Slavs are supposedly the most "mixed" and the "least Slavic" of all Slavs. The most "mixed" (chiefly with Ugro-Finns and with Turkic tribes) are perhaps some of East Slavs. All archaeological and written evidence point to replacement in the Balkans during the Slavic invasion and colonization (even though sources also describe Slavs as enslaving Roman citizens and then liberating them and incorporating into their own tribes - so some degree of mixing with local Non-Slavs certainly took place).

*Emperor Maurice in his "Strategikon"* noticed, that Slavs treated their slaves (captives) in different ways than other peoples did.

Quote:

_"(...) Slavs, unlike all other peoples, do not keep captives in perpetual slavery, but they demarcate for them a limited period of time, after which they give them a choice: they can either return home if they purchase their freedom, or stay among them as free people and friends. (...)"_

So, according to "Strategikon", Slavic invaders used to incorporate captives into their ranks. They had an unusual habit of liberating their slaves and incorporating them into their own communities as free people - thus increasing their own numbers very fast. 

This also hints to the origin of association of ethnonym Slavs with the new, Early Medieval Latin term for "slaves".

Slavic warriors enslaved thousands of Non-Slavs, and incorporated them into their own tribes as free people - unlike the majority of other peoples, who used to keep their captives in perpetual slavery, rather than mixing with them.

Therefore Slavic tribes which emerged in the Balkans must have included some descendants of former Byzantine citizens who got captured by the Slavs, then liberated, then linguistically and culturally assimilated into Slavic communities.

This is also confirmed by other sources, for example by these excerpts from *Procopius of Caesarea:*

*Procopius of Caesarea, Book VII, XIII - describing the events in year 545 AD:*

Quote:

*"(...) For a great throng of the barbarians, the Sclaveni [Slavs], had, as it happened, recently crossed the Ister [Danube], plundering the adjoining country and enslaved a very great number of Romans. (...)"*

Another excerpt from* Procopius:*

*"(...) In Illyria and Thracia, from the Ionian Gulf to Byzantine surrounding cities, where Hellas and Chersonese regions are situated, (...) the Sclavenes and the Antes, penetrating practically every year since Justinian administering the Roman Empire, were inflicting irreversible damage to their inhabitants. In each invasion I estimate 200,000 Romans were either enslaved or killed (...)"*

And here an excerpt from *John of Ephesus:*

*"(...) In third year after the death of Emperor Justin, during the reign of victorious Tiberius, the damned nation of the Slavs has risen, and marching through entire Hellas, through lands of Thessaly and Thrace, captured many cities and strongholds, plundered, burned and robbed, seized the land and settled there with full ease, without fear, like in their own land. (...) they were plundering the country, burning it and robbing, as far as the Great Walls [of Constantinople], and this is how they captured many thousands of cattle, as well as many other kinds of booty. (...) Until today, that is until year 584, they still continue to live in peace in lands of the Rhomaioi, without fear and concern, plundering, enslaving and burning, getting rich and highjacking gold and silver, capturing horses and plenty of weapons; and they have learned to fight better than the Rhomaioi. (...)"*

Also a passage from *Menander Protector:*

*"(...) About the fourth year of the reign of Caesar Tiberius Constantine, some hundred thousand Slavs broke into Thrace, and pillaged that and many other regions. As Greece was being laid waste and enslaved by the Slavs, with trouble liable to flare up anywhere, and as Tiberius had at his disposal by no means sufficient forces, he sent a delegation to the Khagan of the Avars. (...)"*

*Jordanes* about the three branches of early Slavic-speaking peoples (ethnonym Slavs comes from just one of them - the Sclaveni):

*"(...) These people, as we started to say at the beginning of our account or catalogue of nations, though off-shoots from one stock, have now three names, that is, Venedi, Antes and Sclaveni. (...) they now rage in war far and wide, in punishment for our sins (...) Though their names are now dispersed amid various clans and places, yet they are chiefly called Sclaveni and Antes. (...)"*

*Procopius of Caesarea* once again (about Slavic foederati/mercenaries fighting under Belisarius):

*"(...) Belisarius was eager to capture alive one of the men of note among the enemy, in order that he might learn what the reason might be why the barbarians were holding out in their desperate situation. And Valerian promised readily to perform such a service for him. For there were some men in his command, he said, from the nation of the Sclaveni, who are accustomed to conceal themselves behind a small rock or any bush which may happen to be near and pounce upon an enemy. In fact, they are constantly practising this in their slave hunts along the river Ister, both on the Romans and on the barbarians as well. (...)"*

And also: http://www.ascsa.edu.gr/pdf/uploads/hesperia/147272.pdf

*"(...) There is clear evidence from the excavations of the Athenian Agora that the late sixth century witnessed some interruption in the peaceful course of town life in Athens. Certain buildings, for example, are known to have been burnt and temporarily or permanently deserted at that time. Finds of coinage, evidently concealed in haste or abandoned in emergency and never recovered, allow a date to be assigned to events, for which, although they are well attested by archaeological discovery, it would otherwise be very difficult to demonstrate a particular historical context. Byzantine chroniclers tell of a Slavonic invasion of Greece which took place apparently at the end of the year 578 or early in 579, as a result of which large numbers of Slavs settled in Greece... It is virtually certain that some of the destruction in the Athenian Agora, for which a date in the years immediately following the invasion is here proposed, was the work of the Slavs... Menander Protector, in his work chronicling the period ca. 560-580, writes as follows (...)"*

So early Slavs were famous for their slave hunts, in which they enslaved both Roman citizens, and other barbarians. Most of those captives were later becoming members of Slavic tribes, as "Strategikon" says.

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## arvistro

There were one or two new researches on Slavic genetics last year. Focused on similarities and differences among South, East and West Slavs. Those should shed a light on degree of migrations vs assimilations for South Slavs.

PS - 
In general while Dacian felt Baltic to me, Thracian usually did not. However these examples have familiar sound.
Especially this:
Thracian Skalme = Sword. So beautiful! We use zobens in Latvia (apparently from zobs - tooth), but this is such a gem. Saved for gaming username purposes  :Laughing:

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## DuPidh

> There were one or two new researches on Slavic genetics last year. Focused on similarities and differences among South, East and West Slavs. Those should shed a light on degree of migrations vs assimilations for South Slavs.
> 
> PS - 
> In general while Dacian felt Baltic to me, Thracian usually did not. However these examples have familiar sound.
> Especially this:
> Thracian Skalme = Sword. So beautiful! We use zobens in Latvia (apparently from zobs - tooth), but this is such a gem. Saved for gaming username purposes



Slavic genetic is the most complicated one. They have genes from East Asians to West Europe. They have assimilated a great number of other ethnicity's. I would say that R1a and N1c and Q should be their signature. I2a probably is an assimilated tribe in Romania. Romania was also in the verge of being slavisized but I guess they outnumbered greatly Normand Slavs. I am putting N1c and Q as Slavic signatures because Slav are the carriers of these East Asian genes, from Genghis Khan invasions. 
In America I have seen a number of Bulgarian Slavs. The one I have seen tend to have dark skin. This could be a false impression since I have not been in Bulgaria. I wander dark skin Bulgarians could be inherited from Thracian's or Anatolian Turks?

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## Garrick

> Slavic genetic is the most complicated one. They have genes from East Asians to West Europe. They have assimilated a great number of other ethnicity's. I would say that R1a and N1c and Q should be their signature. I2a probably is an assimilated tribe in Romania. Romania was also in the verge of being slavisized but I guess they outnumbered greatly Normand Slavs. I am putting N1c and Q as Slavic signatures because Slav are the carriers of these East Asian genes, from Genghis Khan invasions. 
> audience of the Soviet Academy of Sciences in Moscow, more or less the following: 
> "The bourgeois science has always tried to deny the historic, ethnic and language links between Albanians and the Slavs. We won't fall into this trap. There's no reason to deny that there is Slavic blood running in our veins, and we are proud of it." 
> In America I have seen a number of Bulgarian Slavs. The one I have seen tend to have dark skin. This could be a false impression since I have not been in Bulgaria. I wander dark skin Bulgarians could be inherited from Thracian's or Anatolian Turks?


As Albanian you can think about Slavic people, of course. But I will show what Albanian intellectuals thought about this issue when communist Enver Hoxha Albania and Soviet Union were friends.

Vehbiu A., audience of the Soviet Academy of Sciences, Moscow: 

"The bourgeois science has always tried to deny the historic, ethnic and language links between Albanians and the Slavs. We won't fall into this trap. There's no reason to deny that there is Slavic blood running in our veins, and we are proud of it." 

Yes, life is politics, in that time it was political correct.

After 1960 Albanian communist regime led by Enver Hioxha became ally with China led by Mao Zedong and Albanian Slavic blood dried out.

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## A. Papadimitriou

There were advanced cultures in the Balkans before the arrival of Indo-Europeans and the native populations didn't go extinct. 

It is said that Thracian must have been a satem language. So it must have existed in the steppes along with the other satem languages: proto-Albanian, proto-Balto-slavic, proto-Indo-Iranian. proto-Armenian
I would guess that Thracian must have had similiraties either with Balto-slavic or with Albanian or with both. I would think the latter. Probably in Eastern Romance Languages there's a related substratum.
Proto-Anatolian, Proto-Tocharian, proto-Italo-Celtic, proto-Gemanic and proto-Greek must have left the steppes, most probably in that order.

The Brygians/Phrygians weren't a Thracian tribe. They probably were on the same subgroup of Proto-Indoeuropean along with proto-Greek. So we can talk about proto-Greco-Phrygians. But the Phrygians went to Asia Minor where they met Anatolian IE speakers. Strabo says they were a "Thracian tribe" but he says so ~2000 years after they came in southern Balkans.

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## Yetos

@ Deja Vu

post #2 is quite good, although I have my precautions about 

like compare Thracian toponyms
Strymon Στρυμων the known river,
Nestos Νεστος the known river
Evros Ευρος (Μaritsa-Marica) also known river,

and the word for bread Bekos

only these 4 are enough I believe to make us wonder,
1) had Slavic and Thracian the same linguistic home/nest?
2) Bekos and Hleb, Scythian/Iranian admixture to whom left marks to Thracian or to Slavic?
3) if Thracian = Slavic, Thracian belong to Northern Group? with Baltic, Slavic and Germanic? compare Bolinthos and Vix, meaning that from Black sea went North format the language and come south? or from Black sea went south of Istros/Donau straight to Cotofeni. that is something that I always wonder, cause Thracian seems to be connected with most IE languages, both North and South and West of Europe,

so personally I believe 
1) that what ancient Greeks described as Thracian was not Slavic, but is a substractum upon which Slavic developed,
2) Thracian is far ancient IE than we today believe
3) if we exclude the Roman and Greek due to literature, goverment, church, military etc Slavic has Germanic and Baltic and Scythian elements which for me means, that it is a language that formated and came from North languages, above Pannoni Basin, but had the substractum or simmilar with Thracian, so older Balkanic populations accept it easily than any other.
4) the Rurthinians or the people called Ros

except if you believe 
1) that Thracians went North of Danube to avoid Romans, and due to gathering of 'free people' created a language code (Slavic) and return,
that needs a lot of discussion,
2) Ros (Ruthinians-Rudini) who it is said that where partially Vikings did not spoke Slavic but adopted it, or spoke Thracian?

Anyway, I believe that *OCS* worked as Koine to Greek, as Hanover to Deutsh/Germanic and as Latin to Celtoid languages

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## Milan

Nicely written article,not only that Herodotus mention them as one of the most powerful and numerous people,Pliny the Elder later does the same adding that it is reckoned that Thracians are among most powerful people in Europe,in 19th century historiography dubbed as irrelevant extinct "Romanized" peasants despite this claim rely on ones imagination without prove,yet we call Herodotus father of history and Pliny is likewise very reliable author,also that Theophylact clearly say what is the old name of the so called Sclavenes,researches will be yet to come.

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## mihaitzateo

Indians,you should know,are speaking Indo-European languages in North part of India and non-Indo-European languages,in South part of India.
India is a union of different ethnicities and they are using English language,to talk between themselves.
So,what Greek Historian have said that "Thracians" are most numerous "nation" after Indians,you realize how much was knowing about the people which were living north of Greece  :Laughing:  .

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## Milan

I believe that Herodotus knew what he is talking about, after all we got many information from him personally about many people around the world,what I would question is his narration what he meant by "Thracians" because very often Byzantines described anything north of them Slavic as Bulgarians probably so because of the similarities between those people in language culture etc he further describing them is saying that the Thracians bear many names in different regions of their country and so on...

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## Garrick

> There were advanced cultures in the Balkans before the arrival of Indo-Europeans and the native populations didn't go extinct. 
> 
> It is said that Thracian must have been a satem language. So it must have existed in the steppes along with the other satem languages: proto-Albanian, proto-Balto-slavic, proto-Indo-Iranian. proto-Armenian
> I would guess that Thracian must have had similiraties either with Balto-slavic or with Albanian or with both. I would think the latter. Probably in Eastern Romance Languages there's a related substratum.
> Proto-Anatolian, Proto-Tocharian, proto-Italo-Celtic, proto-Gemanic and proto-Greek must have left the steppes, most probably in that order.
> 
> The Brygians/Phrygians weren't a Thracian tribe. They probably were on the same subgroup of Proto-Indoeuropean along with proto-Greek. So we can talk about proto-Greco-Phrygians. But the Phrygians went to Asia Minor where they met Anatolian IE speakers. Strabo says they were a "Thracian tribe" but he says so ~2000 years after they came in southern Balkans.


A very good observation. Yes, both, Balto-Slavic, and Albanian are linked with Thracian. And according Romanian theory about Albanians as descendants of Carpi tribe (and possible Costoboci tribe) it is logical. Before that their ancestors were in steppes. And there is link with proto-Armenian and proto-Indo-Iranian even before steppes. And they all Satem languages.

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## Sile

> I believe that Herodotus knew what he is talking about, after all we got many information from him personally about many people around the world,what I would question is his narration what he meant by "Thracians" because very often Byzantines described anything north of them Slavic as Bulgarians probably so because of the similarities between those people in language culture etc he further describing them is saying that the Thracians bear many names in different regions of their country and so on...


who converted to Romanized Latin.........the dacians or the thracians ?

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## mihaitzateo

@Sile:
Well, Romanians are speaking a Romance language.
It is supposed that Romanians are descending mostly from Dacians.

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## A. Papadimitriou

According to Herodotus, the Getae were "the noblest as well as the most just of all the Thracian tribes". So if Dacians and Getae were the same people, the Dacians were also "Thracians". That doesn't mean that all the people who were labeled "Thracians" had a common identity. We can't be sure about that. But, they had at least some cultural similarities and they spoke the same language (different dialects with common origin probably).

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## Yetos

> @Sile:
> Well, Romanians are speaking a Romance language.
> It is supposed that Romanians are descending mostly from Dacians.



Romanians got Latinised, except if they are not Getai or Thracians and are the Keltos who lived at Pannoni basin

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## Sile

I was always taught that the true thracians where from

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odrysian_kingdom

who spoke more Greek than Latin

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## Garrick

> According to Herodotus, the Getae were "the noblest as well as the most just of all the Thracian tribes". So if Dacians and Getae were the same people, the Dacians were also "Thracians". That doesn't mean that all the people who were labeled "Thracians" had a common identity. We can't be sure about that. But, they had at least some cultural similarities and they spoke the same language (different dialects with common origin probably).


Yes, high probability is that Dacians were Getae, and it means Dacians were Thracians. Hypotheses that Dacians are Iranians, and even Dacians are Phrygians have much smaller probability. 

Dacians are Romanized. But in the borders of Dacia lived so-called Free Dacian tribes (Carpi, Costoboci) who were non-Romanized, or only partially (lesser extent) Romanized. There is no consensus about their ethnicity. Some Romanian scholars ween Carpi as descedants of Albanians. The ethnic and linguistic affiliation of the Costoboci is more uncertainand.

Tribes in the borders of Dacia and in environment of Carpi and Costoboci are mostly known, Roxolani were Sarmatian and it is possible with Scythian influences, Bastarnae were probably Germanic with Celtic and Scytho-Sarmatian influences, Cotini were Celtic.

Dacia and environment in the Roman time

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## Milan

> A very good observation. Yes, both, Balto-Slavic, and Albanian are linked with Thracian. And according Romanian theory about Albanians as descendants of Carpi tribe (and possible Costoboci tribe) it is logical. Before that their ancestors were in steppes. And there is link with proto-Armenian and proto-Indo-Iranian even before steppes. And they all Satem languages.


I would use here South-Slavic,many words are being used by South-Slavs that are not used in all other Slavic languages and are shared with Thracian,including personal names too,then perhaps Baltic is coming.
Apart that the folklore,traditions are clearly Balkan in origin.

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## Milan

> who converted to Romanized Latin.........the dacians or the thracians ?


I don't know much about this,but some Romanian scholars use to say that is due to Roman legions,this legions were also from some local origin,or maybe taken as language for communication of different ethnicities to understand mutualy,Danube was the frontier of the empire that is where Romanians are mostly,in Romanian 15% of it's words are Slavic in origin i think was more prior reformation.
That also might be the case with Slavic in different periods of time,might be used as language for communication with people in the Danube region and north of it,in trade etc,Greek was popular in Eastern Mediteranean,Latin trough the Roman empire while was still in existence,i never thought much about this,but language or languages nobility,soldiers etc use to know or speak for different purposes not always is spoken by their subjects or widely population,that is the case even today,prior also while simple peasant speak on one tongue and most don't even knew to write,the others that deal in imperial affairs must knew many of them.

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## gyms

http://www.hungarianhistory.com/lib/krausser.pdf

http://www.amazon.com/DELIBERATE-FAL.../dp/B005F7BD0E

https://books.google.se/books?id=RM6...istory&f=false

https://books.google.se/books?id=sOU...istory&f=false

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## Garrick

> http://www.hungarianhistory.com/lib/krausser.pdf
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/DELIBERATE-FAL.../dp/B005F7BD0E
> 
> https://books.google.se/books?id=RM6...istory&f=false
> 
> https://books.google.se/books?id=sOU...istory&f=false


It is due Hungarian, Romanian rivalry, but it is not correct.

For Albanians is acceptable hypothesis some Hungarian thinkers that Romanians used to live together with Albanians on territory of present-day Albania and in the region, and Romanians have moved to present-day Romania. 

There is no explanation why Albanian speak North Thracian and eastern Latin which come from Romanian, if Albanians lived in present-day Albania.

Therefore above mentioned hypothesis is suit for Albanians.

Romanian thinkers, on the contrary, argue that Albanians lived behind Romanized Dacia (as tribes Carpi and possible Costoboci) in Carpathian mountains, Moldavia and behind, which better explains reality.

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## Garrick

> I would use here South-Slavic,many words are being used by South-Slavs that are not used in all other Slavic languages and are shared with Thracian,including personal names too,then perhaps Baltic is coming.
> Apart that the folklore,traditions are clearly Balkan in origin.


Good observation.




> I don't know much about this,but some Romanian scholars use to say that is due to Roman legions,this legions were also from some local origin,or maybe taken as language for communication of different ethnicities to understand mutualy,Danube was the frontier of the empire that is where Romanians are mostly,in Romanian 15% of it's words are Slavic in origin i think was more prior reformation.
> That also might be the case with Slavic in different periods of time,might be used as language for communication with people in the Danube region and north of it,in trade etc,Greek was popular in Eastern Mediteranean,Latin trough the Roman empire while was still in existence,i never thought much about this,but language or languages  nobility,soldiers etc use to know or speak for different purposes not always is spoken by their subjects or widely population,that is the case even today,prior also while simple peasant speak on one tongue and most don't even knew to write,the others that deal in imperial affairs must knew many of them.


Surely, things are complex, many of them are not clarified, and there are no easy answers.

You can read this thread and you will get some ideas:

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...-Slavic-people

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## Milan

> Good observation.
> 
> 
> 
> Surely, things are complex, many of them are not clarified, and there are no easy answers.
> 
> You can read this thread and you will get some ideas:
> 
> http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...-Slavic-people


Yes i can give an example for example the numerous Daco-Moesian or Geto-Dacian settlements that are ending on Dava,Deva etc reconstructed from proto-Indo-European *dhewa 'settlement'
<PIE *dhe-, "to set, place.
My ancestors were living what was province of Moesia superior,for example my grandparents were always using the verb **Devam,Denam* which mean "to put" -to place,to settle instead of other terms that have the same meaning,this terms are (obsolete) rarely used today but still surviving,for example in verb (U)*denuti*,(U)*devati* etc i found in Russian also for example "Mne nékuda *devá*tʹsja.I have no place to go / to hide

This obsolete now dialectal usings can not be find neither in all Slavic languages,neither are being used constantly in the reformed languages but are mostly replaced with other terms,dialect they spoke is mostly lost due to new coined state languages.
As per above "Thracian language" posted by Deja vu,for some reason to at least half of those words their South-Slavic anologies are not being proposed and i guess contradicts with his article,Georgiev was from communist Bulgaria.

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