# Population Genetics > Autosomal Genetics >  Population averages of Czechs

## Syky

I decided to test some Czech samples on Gedmatch, because they are often missing in most of spreadsheets of admixture calculators. I have tested 15 Czech samples that I had found through one-to-many tool. My purpose was to learn something new about genetic history of my own country, not only to know that Czechs are very mixed as is often claimed by haplogroup fans. I discovered that there is something like a "stereotypical Czech". I call it average Czech. It is surprisingly stable - Czechs seem to be relatively homogeneous population, but I didn't look for regional details about the samples.
To avoid bias, I only tested samples with small or no level of relationship. 
Closest populations are in brackets. Numbers are averages of admixture percentages and numbers in brackets show individual variability range.
I hope it will be useful, especially for admixture maps in Eupedia. Use it freely as you want.
I am going to add more averages from other calculators gradually.

*Dodecad V3*

(Slovenian)
*W EURO*
42,59
(40,19 - 46,19)

*E EURO*
24,91
(20,62 - 27,32)

*MEDIT*
21,47
(19,65 - 24,44)

*W ASIAN*
8,06
(5,74 - 9,88)

*SW ASIAN*
1,18
(0 - 2,39)

*NE ASIAN*
0,36
(0 - 0,53)

*S ASIAN*
0,96
(0 - 1,86)

*NW AFR*
0,25
(0 - 1,33)

*SE ASIAN*
0,14
(0 - 0,63)

*NEO AFR*
0,01
(0 - 0,10)

*E AFR*
0,00
(0 - 0,03)

*PALEO_AFR*
0,06
(0 - 0,47)




*Dodecad K12b*

(Hungarian)
*N EURO*
50,63
 (47,37 - 52,13)

*ATL_MED*
27,97
 (24,13 - 32,86)

*CAUCASUS*
12,45
(11,00 - 14,21)

*GEDROSIA*
5,29
(3,98 - 7,13)

*SW ASIA*
1,88
(0,96 - 3,45)

*SIBERIAN*
0,45
(0 - 0,71)

*NW AFR*
0,25
(0 - 1,06)

*S ASIA*
0,73
(0,04 - 1,68)

*SE ASIA*
0,15
(0 - 0,45)

*E AFR*
0,04
(0 - 0,31)

*SUB_SAH*
0,03
(0 - 0,32)

*E ASIAN*
0,13
(0 - 0,87)










*Dodecad K7b*
(German)

*ATL_BAL*
72,42
(69,91 - 74,98)

*W ASIAN*
13,61
(11,65 - 16,29)

*SOUTHERN*
11,69
(10,24 - 13,29)

*SIBERIAN*
1,10
(0,03 - 1,72)

*S ASIAN*
1,00
(0,03 - 2,13)

*AFRICAN*
0,08
(0 - 0,32)

*E ASIAN*
0,09
(0 - 0,42)







*Dodecad world9*

(Mixed Germanic)
*ATL_BAL*
71,65
(69,46 - 74,31)

*CAU_GED*
14,34
(12,16 - 16,91)

*SOUTHERN*
 11,22
(9,91 - 12,94)

*SIBERIAN*
1,14
(0 - 2,14)

*S ASIAN*
0,83
(0,18 - 1,90)

*AMERIND*
0,55
(0 - 1,03)

*AFRICAN*
0,09
(0 - 0,36)

*AUSTR*
0,13
(0 - 0,51)

*E ASIAN*
0,06
(0 - 0,33)







*Eurogenes ANE_K7*

*WHG+UHG*
63,34
(61,36 - 65,57)

*ANE*
16,56
(15,53 - 17,58)

*ENF*
16,59
(15,33 - 18,95)

*ASE*
2,15
(0,86 - 2,76)

*E EURASIAN*
0,56
(0 - 1,16)

*W AFRICAN*
0,34
(0 - 0,96)

*E AFRICAN*
0,46
(0 - 1,09)







*Eurogenes Hunter_Gatherer vs. Farmer*

*BALTIC HG*
60,02
(56,91 - 62,85)

*MED FARMER*
25,40
(22,65 - 29,46)

*ANATOLIAN FARMER*
9,89
(6,9 - 14,03)

*ME HERDER*
1,81
(0 - 4,38)

*E ASIAN FARMER*
0,16
(0 - 0,36)

*S AMERICAN HG*
0,39
(0 - 0,68)

*S ASIAN HG*
0,99
(0 - 2,09)

*N EURASIAN HG*
0,41
(0 - 0,78)

*E AFR PASTORALIST*
0,08
(0 - 0,53)

*OCEANIAN HG*
0,09
(0 - 0,63)

*PYGMY HG*
0,08
(0 - 0,33)

*BANTU FARMER*
0,05
(0 - 0,36)








*WHG – ANE – EEF test*

(counted from average Czech in K13)
*EEF* 47,736
*WHG* 36,597
*ANE* 15,667

*Eurogenes K13*

(East German)
*BALTIC*
37,14
(31,98 - 40,21)

*N_ATLANTIC*
 33,53
(26,27 - 37,45)

*W ASIAN*
5,94
(3,51 - 8,68)

*W_MED*
12,43
(9,34 - 15,89)

*E_MED*
7,18
(4,31 - 10,85)

*SIBERIAN*
0,66
(0 - 1,55)

*RED SEA*
0,90
(0 - 3,07)

*E ASIAN*
0,14
(0 - 0,75)

*S ASIAN*
1,18
(0 - 2,65)

*AMERIND*
0,59
(0 - 1,39)

*OCEANIAN*
0,26
(0 - 0,95)

*NE AFRICAN*
0,19
(0 - 0,72)

*SUB_SAH*
0,13
(0 - 1,29)



*Eurogenes V2 K15*

(East German and Austrian equally)
*N_SEA*
24,06
(14,11? - 32,2)

*BALTIC*
22,98
(19,07 - 28,22)

*ATLANTIC*
20,11
(14,45 - 23,99)

*E_EURO*
14,59
(10,33 - 18,28)

*W_ASIAN*
4,39
(0,79 - 7,65)

*W_MED*
7,98
(5,41 - 11,72)

*E_MED*
3,65
(1,68 - 6,77)

*SIBERIAN*
0,25
(0 - 0,74)

*RED SEA*
0,70
(0 - 2,56)

*S_ASIAN*
0,50
(0 - 1,13)

*AMERIND*
0,24
(0 - 0,67)

*OCEANIAN*
0,14
(0 - 0,56)

*NE_AFR*
0,14
(0 - 0,86)

*SUB_SAH*
0,09
(0 - 1,07)

*SE_ASIAN*
0,07
(0 - 0,19)


*Eurogenes EUTest*

(Hungarian)
*S BALTIC*
24,34
(18,33 - 27,76)

*ATLANTIC*
17,91
(14,2 - 21,30)

*NC EURO*
20,00
(17,41 - 24,69)

*E EURO*
17,23
(11,85 - 20,70)

*W MED*
9,47
(7,12 - 11,83)

*W ASIAN*
3,92
(0,01? - 7,65)

*E MED*
6,31
(2,05 - 8,53)

*MID EAST*
0,17
(0 - 1,45)

*W AFRICAN*
0,03
(0 - 0,13)

*E AFRICAN*
0,05
(0 - 0,26)

*E ASIAN*
0,00
(0 - 0)

*SIBERIAN*
0,20
(0 - 0)

*S ASIAN*
0,31
(0 - 1,29)



*Eurogenes K12*

*S BALTIC*
24,30
(19,38 - 28,02)

*NORTH SEA*
22,39
(14,82 - 29,21)

*W EURO*
20,74
(17,59 - 23,92)

*VOLGA_URAL*
13,20
(9,83 - 15,38)

*MEDIT*
10,95
(6,22 - 15,38)

*CAUCASUS*
6,72
(3,89 - 11,1)

*SW ASIAN*
1,15
(0 - 2,96)

*N.AMERIND_ARC*
0,15
(0 - 0,53)

*SIBERIAN*
0,00
0

*S ASIAN*
0,38
(0 - 1,14)

*E ASIAN*
0,00
0

*W AFRICAN*
0,02
(0 - 0,17)

----------


## Seanp

Interesting to see Hungarian average, the following results are from Hungarians of Transylvania origin:

Based on Eurogenes K12&K15 calculator:

1.,
[spoiler]
Population


South Asian
3.66

Caucasus
9.85

Southwest Asian
4.51

North Amerindian + Arctic
0.97

Siberian
0.92

Mediterranean
11.90

East Asian
0.42

West African
0.11

Volga-Ural
10.58

South Baltic
22.41

Western European
14.51

North Sea 20.15



Eurogenes K15

*#*
*Population*
*Percent*

1
North_Sea
20.85

2
Baltic
20.67

3
Atlantic
13.18

4
Eastern_Euro
12.21

5
West_Med
9.77

6
West_Asian
6.75

7
East_Med
6.47

8
South_Asian
3.9

9
Red_Sea
2.97

10
Siberian
1.73

11
Amerindian
1.09

12
Southeast_Asian
0.41


[/spoiler]

[spoiler]
2.,
Population


South Asian
1.13

Caucasus
9.51

Southwest Asian
7.41

North Amerindian + Arctic
0.61

Siberian
2.15

Mediterranean
13.07

East Asian
1.03

West African
-

Volga-Ural
11.77

South Baltic
18.73

Western European
17.90

North Sea
16.68



Eurogenes K15
*#*
*Population*
*Percent*

1
North_Sea
20.11

2
Baltic
15.7

3
Eastern_Euro
15.46

4
Atlantic
14.84

5
West_Med
10.56

6
East_Med
9.57

7
West_Asian
4.36

8
Red_Sea
3.35

9
Siberian
2.24

10
Amerindian
1.19

11
Southeast_Asian
1.13

12
South_Asian
0.79

13
Northeast_African
0.54

14
Oceanian
0.18


[/spoiler]

[spoiler]
3.,
Population


South Asian
0.89

Caucasus
11.17

Southwest Asian
4.45

North Amerindian + Arctic
0.20

Siberian
1.08

Mediterranean
15.46

East Asian
2.28

West African
-

Volga-Ural
7.17

South Baltic
22.10

Western European
15.05

North Sea
20.15



K15
*#*
*Population*
*Percent*

1
North_Sea
21.46

2
Baltic
20.38

3
Atlantic
14.34

4
East_Med
13.87

5
West_Med
10.81

6
Eastern_Euro
8.23

7
West_Asian
5.61

8
Southeast_Asian
2.07

9
Siberian
1.7

10
South_Asian
1.04

11
Oceanian
0.47

12
Red_Sea
0.02


[/spoiler]

----------


## Tomenable

Here is a very interesting East German EU K15 score:

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...l=1#post199430

His ancestors, according to what he wrote, are from four places:

1) - present-day East Germany
2) - Sudetenland (Czech Republic)
3) - Western Pomerania (Poland)
4) - and German from Austria

And these are his Eurogenes K15 results:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 23.09
2 North_Sea 23.02
3 Atlantic 22.26
4 Eastern_Euro 15.19
5 West_Med 6.82
6 West_Asian 4.54
7 East_Med 3.58
8 Siberian 0.57
9 Red_Sea 0.47
10 Amerindian 0.22
11 Sub-Saharan 0.18
12 Oceanian 0.07

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Polish 6.34
2 Austrian 6.42
3 East_German 6.6
4 Hungarian 6.88
5 Croatian 7.14
6 Polish 7.28
7 Ukrainian_Lviv 8.34
8 Ukrainian 8.51
9 Southwest_Finnish 8.77
10 Russian_Smolensk 9.66
11 Moldavian 10.64
12 Finnish 10.78
13 Belorussian 11.35
14 Southwest_Russian 11.51
15 Estonian_Polish 11.64
16 Ukrainian_Belgorod 11.69
17 Estonian 11.77
18 Serbian 13.09
19 East_Finnish 13.27
20 North_German 13.69

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 60.7% Russian_Smolensk + 39.3% South_Dutch @ 1.57
2 56.7% Belorussian + 43.3% South_Dutch @ 1.83
3 65.8% Russian_Smolensk + 34.2% Southwest_English @ 2.01
4 65.6% Austrian + 34.4% Estonian @ 2.04
5 65.6% Russian_Smolensk + 34.4% Southeast_English @ 2.12
6 61.9% Belorussian + 38.1% French @ 2.38
7 56.2% Estonian_Polish + 43.8% South_Dutch @ 2.44
8 59.1% Russian_Smolensk + 40.9% North_German @ 2.49
9 60.4% East_German + 39.6% Russian_Smolensk @ 2.51
10 68.1% Polish + 31.9% South_Dutch @ 2.52
11 53.7% Austrian + 46.3% Polish @ 2.53
12 50.4% South_Dutch + 49.6% Lithuanian @ 2.54
13 65.9% Russian_Smolensk + 34.1% French @ 2.57
14 64.6% East_German + 35.4% Belorussian @ 2.64
15 56.5% Southwest_Russian + 43.5% South_Dutch @ 2.67
16 66% Russian_Smolensk + 34% Irish @ 2.69
17 63.6% Russian_Smolensk + 36.4% West_German @ 2.69
18 72.7% Polish + 27.3% French @ 2.72
19 71.8% South_Polish + 28.2% South_Dutch @ 2.78
20 75.9% South_Polish + 24.1% Southeast_English @ 2.8

Clearly he has a lot of Germanized Slavic ancestry.

----------


## Tomenable

OK, I will start a separate thread for this stuff later. :)

----------


## Tomenable

*Michael Eisenriegler:*

http://michael.eisenriegler.at/micha...atives-finder/

Genealogical ancestry:




> Like most people who are into family research I’m always interested in finding new relatives and to get in touch with distant cousins. To make this easier I had my DNA tested on 23andme and on Ancestry DNA and also uploaded it to *GEDmatch (Kit # M368955)* as well as FTDNA. My full family tree is available on MyHeritage, please ask for access.
> 
> My paternal haplogroup is J2b2* (23andme), J-M172 (FTDNA)
> My maternal haplogroup is H1 (23andme)
> 
> *Here’s a list of family names of the last seven generations of my ancestors and the places they lived.* The list is by far not complete yet, there are still some brick walls to overcome:
> 
> *Paternal Ancestors:*
> 
> ...


And his Eurogenes K15 result:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic 23.72
2 North_Sea 20.33
3 Baltic 15.86
4 West_Med 12.51
5 Eastern_Euro 9.58
6 West_Asian 7.53
7 East_Med 7.37
8 Red_Sea 2.14
9 Northeast_African 0.8
10 Southeast_Asian 0.16

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Austrian 5.34
2 Serbian 7.61
3 East_German 8.37
4 Hungarian 8.53
5 Croatian 9.88
6 Romanian 10.14
7 South_Dutch 10.53
8 French 10.83
9 Moldavian 11.42
10 Bulgarian 12.55
11 West_German 13.1
12 Spanish_Cataluna 13.59
13 North_German 13.77
14 Spanish_Galicia 13.98
15 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 14.23
16 Portuguese 14.41
17 North_Italian 14.55
18 South_Polish 15.22
19 Spanish_Extremadura 15.32
20 Spanish_Murcia 15.6

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 74.8% Austrian + 25.2% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 2.51
2 75.2% Austrian + 24.8% Portuguese @ 2.57
3 76.4% Austrian + 23.6% Spanish_Extremadura @ 2.6
4 75.4% Austrian + 24.6% North_Italian @ 2.6
5 74.7% Austrian + 25.3% Spanish_Galicia @ 2.63
6 78.4% Austrian + 21.6% Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.7
7 74.4% Austrian + 25.6% Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.77
8 78.7% Austrian + 21.3% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 2.8
9 77.1% Austrian + 22.9% Spanish_Murcia @ 2.8
10 78.5% Austrian + 21.5% Spanish_Cantabria @ 2.9
11 78.3% Austrian + 21.7% Spanish_Valencia @ 3.03
12 80.6% Austrian + 19.4% Spanish_Aragon @ 3.08
13 67.9% Hungarian + 32.1% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 3.22
14 59.8% Croatian + 40.2% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 3.23
15 58.6% Croatian + 41.4% Spanish_Cataluna @ 3.26
16 78.9% Austrian + 21.1% Southwest_French @ 3.28
17 90.2% Austrian + 9.8% Sardinian @ 3.3
18 67.8% Hungarian + 32.2% Spanish_Andalucia @ 3.3
19 80.8% Austrian + 19.2% Tuscan @ 3.33
20 67% Hungarian + 33% Spanish_Valencia @ 3.44

----------


## srdceleva

@syky great thread I finally get to see some Czech results! I some how have never seen this post. 

Here are some results from my father. His ancestry is exclusively (from what I know) from the nitra region in Slovakia.

Eurogenes Jtest
Population	Percent
1	SOUTH_BALTIC	23.67
2	NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO	21.09
3	EAST_EURO	20.74
4	ATLANTIC	12.87
5	EAST_MED	8.25
6	WEST_MED	7.11
7	ASHKENAZI	4.75
8	WEST_ASIAN	0.91
9	EAST_ASIAN	0.31
10	WEST_AFRICAN	0.15
11	MIDDLE_EASTERN	0.13
12	SIBERIAN	0.02
13	SOUTH_ASIAN	0.01

Single Population Sharing:

#	Population (source)	Distance
1	PL	7.88
2	UA	8.38
3	Ukrainian-Russian	9.13
4	HU	9.79
5	West_Russian	9.95
6	Belorussian	10.88
7	AT	11.74
8	South_Finnish	12.01
9	EE	12.66
10	Serbian	13.02
11	Northwest_Russian	13.59
12	East_Russian	13.78
13	East_Finnish	14.07
14	North_Swedish	14.53
15	North_Russian	15.45
16	LIT	15.96
17	South_&_Central_Swedish	16.05
18	RO	16.31
19	West_&_Central_German	16.72
20	NO	17.05


His dodecad V3
Population	Percent
1	West_European	41.26
2	East_European	26.24
3	Mediterranean	19.92
4	West_Asian	8.77
5	Southwest_Asian	2.16
6	South_Asian	0.69
7	Northeast_Asian	0.53
8	Southeast_Asian	0.26
9	East_African	0.16
10	Neo_African	0.02

Single Population Sharing:

#	Population (source)	Distance
1	Slovenian (Xing)	5.1
2	Hungarians (Behar)	6.37
3	German (Dodecad)	13.6
4	Balkans (Dodecad)	18.36
5	N._European (Xing)	18.41
6	Polish (Dodecad)	18.44
7	CEU (HapMap)	18.6
8	Mixed_Slav (Dodecad)	18.68
9	Argyll (1000 Genomes)	18.85
10	FIN (1000Genomes)	19.52
11	Orcadian (HGDP)	19.81
12	Orkney (1000 Genomes)	19.99
13	Romanians_14 (Behar)	22.03
14	Finnish (Dodecad)	22.87
15	Russian (Dodecad)	23.86
16	Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad)	25.28
17	French (Dodecad)	25.49
18	French (HGDP)	25.87
19	Swedish (Dodecad)	26.19
20	Dutch (Dodecad)	26.97

----------


## Syky

Srdceleva, your father looks very Czech. I previously thought that Slovaks are more Slavic, even though from western part of Slovakia. This is a "purely" south Moravian guy, which is more eastern looking:

DV3
*#*
*Population*
*Percent*

1
West_European
42.4

2
East_European
27.78

3
Mediterranean
18.78

4
West_Asian
7.38

5
Southwest_Asian
1.72

6
Northeast_Asian
0.93

7
Southeast_Asian
0.41

8
South_Asian
0.4

9
Palaeo_African
0.18

10
Neo_African
0.03



*Single Population Sharing:

#
Population (source)
Distance

1
Slovenian (Xing)
7.3

2
Hungarians (Behar)
7.92

3
German (Dodecad)
13.89

4
Polish (Dodecad)
17.15


*
EUTest:
*#*
*Population*
*Percent*

1
SOUTH_BALTIC
27.21

2
NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO
18.96

3
EAST_EURO
18.59

4
ATLANTIC
15.81

5
WEST_MED
7.57

6
EAST_MED
6.57

7
WEST_ASIAN
4.5

8
SIBERIAN
0.42

9
SOUTH_ASIAN
0.37



*Single Population Sharing:

#
Population (source)
Distance

1
PL
3.84

2
UA
5.04

3
West_Russian
6.91

4
Ukrainian-Russian
7.26

5
Belorussian
8.49

6
HU
8.51

7
EE
10.29

8
Northwest_Russian
11.29

9
AT
11.78

10
South_Finnish
12.32


*

----------


## srdceleva

Well I don't know if less or more Slavic is the best way to describe it. Lithuanias, lativians, and Finnish people all score extremely high on Baltic and Eastern European results and they aren't technically Slavic. 

There seems to be a genetic continuity between Moravians, Slovaks, south poles, and western ukrainians. As you can see on the other thread the ethnic pole from lyvov has similar results to slovaks and Czechs. I also posted results from a women who's three grandparents are from South East Poland and a fourth from Western Ukraine. Though two of her grandparents were technically ethnic Germans living in Poland a study I read done on polish Germans and Slavic poles showed ethnic Germans in Poland to be of polish origin. So germanicized poles basically . And this women results also looked similar to my father and your results. Davidiski from eurogenes also seems to have some biased results as he takes most samples from north east polish people and makes them a proxy group for many of his Eastern Europe results. If you look at results from Lebrok and tomenable they also are not as extreme as some of the tables for poles on the dodecad and eurogenes test. 

Sent from my KIW-L21 using Tapatalk

----------


## Syky

You are right, I often use Slavic in "Eastern Euro" meaning (Baltic, Eastern Euro etc. components), it is not 100% correct but easy to use :) And you are right with the genetic continuity, it seems plausible. Eurogenes often puts me close to "South Polish" in its Oracles. But who are the carriers of those "eastern" components? Eastern Slavs, connected to R1a-CTS1211? It is a bit mystery for me. Yamna and Corded Ware peoples were more "western" in both Dodecad and Eurogenes.

----------


## srdceleva

> You are right, I often use Slavic in "Eastern Euro" meaning (Baltic, Eastern Euro etc. components), it is not 100% correct but easy to use :) And you are right with the genetic continuity, it seems plausible. Eurogenes often puts me close to "South Polish" in its Oracles. But who are the carriers of those "eastern" components? Eastern Slavs, connected to R1a-CTS1211? It is a bit mystery for me. Yamna and Corded Ware peoples were more "western" in both Dodecad and Eurogenes.


What's interesting is that both me and my father's "Eastern euro " results from the eurogenes EU test and from the K36 results seem to be higher than many poles and Czechs I've seen on those tests when compared to "Baltic" or "central East European" results where poles and Czechs score higher. This could possibly be due to the fact that slovaks have higher rates of east Slavic R1a than both Czechs and poles. 

I'm not exactly sure who these original Eastern euros were but they seem to be a northern branch of Indo Europeans connected to R1a in general. I'm still waiting for them to finally test a proto slav so we really can test " Slavic genes" :).


any czech results that resemble mine :) 

dodecad v3 

Population


East_European
22.70

West_European
46.50

Mediterranean
20.96

Neo_African
-

West_Asian
6.66

South_Asian
-

Northeast_Asian
0.49

Southeast_Asian
0.68

East_African
0.36

Southwest_Asian
1.47

Northwest_African
0.19

Palaeo_African
-



Eurogenes EU test 

Population


SOUTH_BALTIC
22.14

EAST_EURO
18.49

NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO
23.99

ATLANTIC
18.15

WEST_MED
8.28

EAST_MED
6.74

WEST_ASIAN
1.35

MIDDLE_EASTERN
-

SOUTH_ASIAN
0.06

EAST_AFRICAN
0.24

EAST_ASIAN
0.56

SIBERIAN
-

WEST_AFRICAN
-

----------


## Syky

The problem is that Corded Ware people were "western" and predominantly R1a. Therefore I still don't understand who were the "eastern" peoples.
This is a Corded individual from Estonia, now genetically very "eastern" country:
Kit F999955

*Admix Results (sorted):

#
Population
Percent

1
West_European
58.61

2
East_European
18.84

3
Mediterranean
16.19

4
West_Asian
4.89

5
South_Asian
0.49

6
Northeast_Asian
0.35

7
Palaeo_African
0.33

8
Neo_African
0.3


*Eurogenes K13:
*#**Population**Percent
*1 North_Atlantic 54.58
2 Baltic 36.96
3 West_Asian 4.41
4 West_Med 4.04

Now the Slavs and Balts are different from these R1a Corded peoples.

----------


## srdceleva

> The problem is that Corded Ware people were "western" and predominantly R1a. Therefore I still don't understand who were the "eastern" peoples.
> This is a Corded individual from Estonia, now genetically very "eastern" country:
> Kit F999955
> 
> *Admix Results (sorted):
> 
> #
> Population
> Percent
> ...


Yes that is very interesting, maybe the ancestors of modern slavs and balts were farther east at the time. However the eastern european results aren't too low, 18 % on dodecad is still higher than modern Germans. However dodecad seems to be less and less reliable to me. The table for different populations seem disproportionate as modern slavs that I've seen never seem to be as high on Eastern European as the tables show. I recently saw results for a belarusian I know who scores 96% north Slavic on DNA land and clusters with Belarus on almost every eurogenes test, and even he on dodecad is only 37% eastern euro according to the test. No where near 50% considered the average for Belarusians...

----------


## Syky

It is true that Dodecad V3 is somewhat old, but I like its simplicity with only few caucasoid components, it is easy to imagine. But as you see from K13, this Corded female is much more "Atlantic" than "Baltic". Her K15:

1 North_Sea 37.87
2 Atlantic 30.48 
3 Baltic 18.5
4 Eastern_Euro 13.16

Still more "western"... interesting.

----------


## srdceleva

whats interesting is the results from two czech samples 2000 years ago 
Dodecad V3

Brandysek, Czech Republic 

Kit F999954

*Admix Results (sorted):*

*#*
*Population*
*Percent*

1
West_European
45.18

2
East_European
26.58

3
Mediterranean
23.46

4
West_Asian
4.43

5
Neo_African
0.31

6
Northwest_African
0.04



Velke Prilepy, Czech Republic

Kit F999951

*Admix Results (sorted):*

*#*
*Population*
*Percent*

1
West_European
54.43

2
Mediterranean
22.3

3
East_European
13.76

4
West_Asian
8.84

5
Neo_African
0.36

6
Palaeo_African
0.23

7
Southeast_Asian
0.09



The first one Looks like a modern czech while the second one looks more western

----------


## Tomenable

> The problem is that Corded Ware people were "western"


Only in Eurogenes calculators (which are not so good for ancient DNA according to their author). 

In many other calculators - like Gedrosia series - they (and Bell Beakers too) look pretty eastern.

It probably has more to do with genetic drift than migrations ("Baltic" being a drifted component).

========================

*Edit:*

Here are some more eastern-looking samples from Poland, but most of them are low coverage:

*RISE139* (Poland, 2135-1923 BC, Unetice culture) - GEDmatch *M484113*
*RISE145* (Poland, 2188-1958 BC, Unetice culture) - GEDmatch *M069028*
*PL_N17* (Poland, 1953-1880 BC, Early Bronze Age) - GEDmatch *Z378359*
*RISE598* (Lithuania, 908-485 BC, Late Bronze Age) - GEDmatch *M483824
IR1* (Hungary, 980-930 BC, Iron Age Mezocsat culture) - GEDmatch *F999929*

----------


## Tomenable

What do typical Czechs score in this new MDLP K16 calculator?:

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...bs-on-GEDmatch

----------


## srdceleva

My fathers results

MDLP K16 

*#*
*Population*
*Percent*

1
NorthEastEuropean
29.76

2
Neolithic
26.16

3
Steppe
20.69

4
Caucasian
20.33

5
Arctic
0.85

6
Indian
0.78

7
NearEast
0.67

8
Siberian
0.33

9
Australian
0.29

10
NorthAfrican
0.15



*Single Population Sharing:*

*#*
*Population (source)*
*Distance*

1
Pole
2.53

2
German_Lipsian
2.66

3
Sorb
2.72

4
Dutch
2.76

5
Pole
2.99

6
Slovak
3.03

----------


## Tomenable

German_Lipsian are Germans *from Leipzig*, so they are neighbours of Sorbs.

Probably largely descended from Germanized Sorbs, hence so similar to them.

*Some maps (mostly made by me):

*R1a frequency correlates with former Slavic lands in 800-850 AD (peak of Slavic expansion):



"Ludność słowiańska w rozproszeniu" = ethnically mixed (where Slavs were not clear majority):



*Slavic lands (orange) and German-ruled lands (black) in the 9th (IX) century AD:*

Black area = lands from which "Ostsiedlung" settlers came (ca. 400,000 km2)
Orange area = Slavic-inhabited lands in the 800s (in total ca. 2,700,000 km2)



*Elbe Slavs:*

*1) Ethnic divisions:*

Areas with white dots = ethnically mixed (not fully Slavic):



*2) Tribal divisions:*



*Sorbian-speakinga areas:*



*About Slavs in Bornholm:*

https://lup.lub.lu.se/search/publication/1258368

----------


## Tomenable

The highest *frequency of R1a* in Germany is in this area:

- Chemnitz in Saxony (ca. *40%*), 
- Dessau in Saxony-Anhalt (ca. *43%*)
- Brandenburg an der Havel (ca. *50%*),
- Lusatia (ethnic *Sorbs*: ca. *65%*)

In Austria: Graz in Styria (ca. *43%*)

One *Austrian from Styria and Carinthia* on GEDmatch: 

*Kit number - M130545
*
I asked him about his ancestry. All of his known ancestors have German surnames and spoke German. But all of them were from Styria and Carinthia, and his GEDmatch results are very Slavic-like (he scores more "Baltic" than "North Atlantic" in Eurogenes K13). In DNA.Land he is 1/2 "North Slavic" and the rest split between "Balkan" and "North-Western Euro".

*Lands inhabited by ethnic Slovenes in Early Middle Ages vs. modern Slovenia:*

http://www.gis.si/egw/ZSS_T04_P02/img/karta2.jpg



===================

From FTDNA projects I collected data on Y-DNA haplogroups in pre-war Easternmost Germany.

*Frequencies of R1a and N1 haplogroups in pre-war:*

Upper Silesia (sample 48) = *62,5%* (30) *R1a* + *4,2%* (2) *N1*
Lower Silesia (sample 48) = *47,9%* (23) *R1a* + *2,1%* (1) *N1
*
East Prussia (sample 84) = *45,2%* (38) *R1a* + *22,6%* (19) *N1*

Elevated frequency of N1 in East Prussia suggests ethnic Baltic (mostly Old Prussian) ancestry.

Especially considering that most of East Prussian N1 belongs to Z16975 / FGC13372 subclade:

https://www.yfull.com/arch-3.15/tree/N-Z16975/

This subclade is not common in Lithuania. It had to be the original Old Prussian N1c subclade:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Prussians

Among 19 samples of N1 from East Prussia, there were 18 N1c and, surprise, also one N1b:

https://www.yfull.com/arch-3.15/tree/N-L732/

FTDNA kit 217892 Johann Gröning born in 1800 in Horsterbusch (Krzewiny), hg. *N1b-L732*

----------


## Tomenable

> My fathers results
> 
> MDLP K16 
> 
> #
> Population
> Percent
> 
> *1*
> ...


*My results* (when using my FTDNA raw data, but converted to 23andMe format by DNA.Land):

There are four different "Poles" in Single Pop. Sharing because they are different regional groups of Poles (unfortunately there was some error when uploading this calculator to GEDmatch, and names of regions are not listed):

Admix Results (sorted):

#
Population
Percent

*1*
*NorthEastEuropean*
*30.01*

*2*
*Neolithic*
*23.49*

*3*
*Caucasian*
*23.39*

*4*
*Steppe*
*21.43*

5
NearEast
0.78

6
Amerindian
0.74

7
EastAfrican
0.15



Single Population Sharing:

#
Population (source)
Distance

*1*
*Pole*
*2.47*

*2*
*Slovak*
*3.32*

*3*
*Pole*
*3.49*

*4*
*Pole*
*3.5*

5
Ukrainian
3.6

6
Hungarian
3.92

*7*
*Sorb*
*4.1*

*8*
*German_Lipsian*
*4.29*

9
Ukrainians_west
4.55

10
Ukrainians_north
4.92

11
Dutch
4.96

*12*
*Czech*
*5.01*

13
Belarusian
5.06

14
Hungarian
5.11

15
Hungarian
5.17

16
Russian
5.19

*17*
*Pole*
*5.6*

18
Russian
5.66

19
Belarusian
5.79

20
German
5.79

----------


## srdceleva

Extremely interesting. I didn't know R1a percentages were so high in east Germany among (supposedly) non sorbs. Austrians don't surprise me at all. Slavic influence is evident in everything here and most people from corinthia do know of having a lot of Slovenian ancestry so im surprised this guy doesn't, though his results are probably very similar to Slovenians, especially with such a high Balkan component on dna.land. 

this women's kit number is M111259. This is what she says about her grandparents. 


Michael Reichert b. 1879 in "Rauchersdorf, Austria" according to his naturalization record in 1913. In his WW2 draft registration in 1942, he reports his birthplace as "Kuryna, Poland." (which is probably modern-day Kurzyna, Nisko, Poland) The Roman Catholic center for this town was Rauchersdorf so it would make sense.


Frances Gubernat b. 1881 in "Zglobien" according to her arrival manifest in 1902. On her husband's naturalization record in 1913, her birthplace is recorded as "Dombrovka, Austria" (which is probably modern-day Dąbrówka, Nisko, Poland).




Andreas Bartusiak b. 1879 in "Roztoka Mala" according to his arrival manifest in 1903. He also says that he is "Ruthenian" which I believe suggests the area around modern-day Ukraine. There is a place called Mala Roztoka in Ukraine near the borders of Hungary and Romania so that could be where he came from.


Alexandra Sawczak b. 1884 in "Maciejowa" according to a passenger manifest which I believe is her in 1901. I've not found any other records for her indicating where she was born.

her K13 results 

*#*
*Population*
*Percent*

1
Baltic
39.26

2
North_Atlantic
30.87

3
West_Med
14.07

4
West_Asian
9.81

5
East_Med
3.39

6
Oceanian
0.92

7
Red_Sea
0.81

8
South_Asian
0.4

9
Siberian
0.28

10
Amerindian
0.19



*Single Population Sharing:*

*#*
*Population (source)*
*Distance*

1
South_Polish
5.39

2
Ukrainian_Lviv
5.43

3
Ukrainian
6.57

4
Croatian
7.01

5
Polish
7.6

6
Hungarian
9.44

7
East_German
9.48




Two of her grandparents from south Poland seem to be ethnic germans and have german names. Doesn't seem like she has much german ancestry. Were ethnic germans in Poland german at all?

----------


## srdceleva

my results


*

#*
*Population*
*Percent*

1
NorthEastEuropean
29.88

2
Neolithic
27.17

3
Steppe
20.62

4
Caucasian
20.48

5
Siberian
1.01

6
Amerindian
0.6

7
EastAfrican
0.2

8
Oceanic
0.04



*Single Population Sharing:*

*#*
*Population (source)*
*Distance*

1
German_Lipsian
2.89

2
Dutch
2.99

3
Pole
3.11

4
Sorb
3.23

5
Slovak
3.54

6
Pole
3.77

7
German
3.84

8
Swede
3.99

9
Pole
4.4

10
Hungarian
4.53



My closest population is very often east german on gedmatch, due to my mixed ancestry. Good to know they are so Slavic in ancestry though, makes me feel vindicated a bit lol. 

do you have R1a percentages for lower Austria and historical Vienna region of Austria?

----------


## Dagne

I am not su sure about the spread of slavic lands 800 AD. Some of them could have been Finnic or Baltic or a mixture.

----------


## Tomenable

> I am not su sure about the spread of slavic lands 800 AD. Some of them could have been Finnic or Baltic or a mixture.


The ones with red dots in Russia and Belarus are mixed Slavic-Finnic or mixed Slavic-Baltic.




> Two of her grandparents from south Poland seem to be ethnic germans and have german names.


I'm not sure if Gubernat is a surname of German origin. But it is common in Southern Poland.

Surnames of the Tarnów region: http://www.mmtarnow.com/2012/07/hist...h-czyli-o.html

Distribution of surname Gubernat: http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/gubernat.html

----------


## Tomenable

Syky, I made my own search and found 3 more ethnic Czechs who are not in your sample of 15.

GEDmatch kit *T406334*
GEDmatch kit *T129685*
GEDmatch kit *T972882*

I'm not sure if they are fully Czech, but they have Czech surnames. You can verify this, I guess.

----------


## srdceleva

They seem to all be Czech, the first two are probably bohemian and the last one Moravian I'm guessing. 

Interesting that the brandysek sample from 2000 years ago looks more or less like modern czechs.

----------


## Syky

Thanks, but the first one is my CZ1 and the third one is CZ4. I did not use the second one because he is probably related to some of my kits and I don't want to make this bias. 
And your posts are amazing, guys!

----------


## Syky

Did you recieve my message, Piotr?

----------


## Syky

Ok, I don't like MDLP calculators at all, I think they are the worst on Gedmatch. But if you like it, here is my average Pepik on K11 Modern:




WHG
37.79

NEOLITHIC
30.63

EHG
25.87

BASAL
2.76

IRAN-MESOLITHIC
1.78

AMERIND
0.49

OCEANIC
0.22

SIBERIAN
0.27

SEA
0.07

ASI
0.26

AFRICAN
0.05

----------


## Tomenable

> Ok, I don't like MDLP calculators at all, I think they are the worst on Gedmatch.


Here are some of the things that I like about MDLP calculators:

1) They have a lot of Slavic reference populations (especially K23b and K16 include most of Slavic groups).

2) MDLP World-22 is one of very few calculators which breaks down Amerindian admixture into regional ones.

Thanks to the latter, I could create a PCA graph with Latino samples. And it actually does make sense - for example modern Ecuadorians and Peruvians plot close to Pre-Columbian Peruvian samples, after I remove their European admixture (I took into account only Amerindian ancestry - for example if someone is 50% Amerindian, I counted this 50% as 100%).

For example if someone has 50% European, 25% Mesoamerican, 15% South-Amerind and 10% North-Amerind, I ignore Euro admixture and count this in my PCA as 50% Mesoamerican, 30% South-Amerind and 20% North-Amerind.

Also when it comes to MDLP K16, it seems to be quite accurate, at least for me.

But I know that some people complain about poor accuracy of this calculator.




> Did you recieve my message


Yes, thanks, I will respond later.

----------


## srdceleva

Does anyone have results for gorals?

----------


## Syky

I think most MDLP clusters are illogical and refers to nothing and some of them are great (North Euro Mesolithic), but generally I use these calculators infrequently. MDLP uses less SNPs than Dodecad and Eurogenes so the accuracy cannot be perfect.

Here is the rest of results for Czechs except K16 Modern, which is nonsense in my opinion.

*K23b*
(Slovenian/Hungarian)

*AVG*

*EURO HG*
44.13
(41,21 - 46,25)

*CAUCASIAN*
27.52
(25,2 - 30,45)

*EEF*
17.65
(14,04 - 21,6)

*SC ASIAN*
2.88
(0,59 - 5,68)

*NEAR EAST*
1.12
(0 - 2,73)

*ANC_ALTAIC*
3.30
(1,52 - 5.32)

*KHOISAN*
0.11
(0 - 1,01)

*AUSTRALOID*
0.17
(0 - 1.05)

*ARCTIC*
0.07
(0 - 0,98)

*AUSTRONES*
0.20
(0 - 1.49)

*SE ASIAN*
0.12
(0 - 0,96)

*AMERIND*
0.41
(0 - 1,11)

*S INDIAN*
0.47
(0 - 1,77)

*ARCH HUMAN*
0.08
(0 - 0,49)

*E AFRICAN*
0.07
(0 - 0,58)

*E SIBERIAN*
0.17
(0 - 0,89)

*MEL_POLYN*
0.14
(0 - 0,94)

*ARCH_AFR*
0.07
(0 - 0,62)

*N AFRICAN*
0.90
(0 - 2,32)

*PAL_SIBER*
0.18
(0 - 0,9)

*AFR_PYGMY*
0.06
(0 - 0,44)

*SUB_SAH*
0.04
(0 - 0,81)

*TUNG_ALTAI*
0.00
0



*World*
(Slovak/German)
* AVG*
*NE EURO*
44.51
(42.67 - 46.79

*SW EURO*
41.54
(38.64 - 44.86)

*CAUC_PARSIA*
8.19
(5.46 - 10.83)

*MID EAST*
4.11
(2.58 - 5.25)

*N ASIAN*
0.21
(0 - 0.68)

*E ASIAN*
0.06
(0 - 0.56)

*INDIAN*
0.66
(0 - 1.57)

*MELANES.*
0.13
(0 - 0.78)

*SUB_SAH*
0.04
(0 - 0.3)

*PALEO_AFR*
0.08
(0 - 0.35)

*MESOAMER.*
0.38
(0 - 1.05)

*ARC_AMER.*
0.10
(0 - 0.72)



*World-22*
(Slovenian)
*AVG*

*NE EURO*
55.69
(51.54 - 58.29)

*ATL_MED_NEO*
27.26
(23.83 - 31.25)

*W ASIAN*
7.24
(4.64 - 9.58)

*NEAR EAST*
3.25
(1.78 - 4.26)

*N.EURO-MESO*
3.43
(2.02 - 4.69)

*INDO-IRANIAN*
0.98
(0 - 2.33)

*SAMOEDIC*
0.62
(0 - 1.96)

*N SIBERIAN*
0.04
(0 - 0.18)

*INDIAN*
0.32
(0 - 0.93)

*INDO-TIBETIAN*
0.17
(0 - 0.78)

*MESOAMER*
0.16
(0 - 0.93)

*ARC_AMERIND*
0.09
(0 - 0.67)

*S_AMERIND*
0.24
(0 - 0.79)

*E SIBERIAN*
0.04
(0 - 0.49)

*S AFRICAN*
0.05
(0 - 0.36)

*N AMERIND*
0.10
(0 - 1.07)

*SUB_SAH*
0.02
(0 - 0.3)

*E-S-ASIAN*
0.02
(0 - 0.46)

*MELANESIAN*
0.07
(0 - 0.45)

*PALEO_SIBER*
0.05
(0 - 0.17

*AUSTRONES*
0.11
(0 - 0.67)

*PYGMY*
0.04
(0 - 0.15)

----------

