# Europe Forum > Travelling & Living in Europe > Eastern Europe >  Macedonia

## Axion

region that is divided, and only its north-western part independent, till yesterday leveled by un as fyroM now leveled by eu as NM tho its people nor then nor now gave consent for such political exhibition and still are refering to this part as Macedonia, hm they are Dove Like People that dont strive for revolutions until there is not fill the last drop of humiliation and pressure, so one must know when seeing Macedonians he is seeing Cosmopolitans who for the sake of the world are constantly in retreating mod, hope that will not ruin their positive spirit in long run, but eventually what cant kill You can make You stronger, so come and visit this land and wonder is this still possible in any other ethnocentric country in the balkans, this just guarantees that at least You will be in stress-fre environment in these pandemic paranoia times, tho it depends just refer to the hosts as Macedonians from Macedonia and Enjoy Your Stay ...

----------


## Axion

informal forum T-Guide blogged on local construction eForum

http://www.build.mk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=373




> When life gets in fast line, just ask for directions to *Macedonia* and come rest Your mind and soul and enjoy among gentle nature and dovelike people...

----------


## Yetos

contain deleted and erased by author.

----------


## Axion

what to think about, it was compact ottoman region that eventually after the past century balkan wars was divided, I am just stating the factual situation ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macedo...d_War_I_and_II

----------


## Yetos

deleted and erased by author.

----------


## Axion

> and by your posts more new questions uprise?


wow I didnt expect in Traveling Subforum to debate about politcs, but since Senior Member is puling such discussion I dont mind, normally till the Moderators dont put halt on such offtopic chit chat, tho for any traveler this kind of info could be beneficial if not for other for more mindboggling traveling experience if they decide to dive in the histo-politic realm of this Region ...

as independence I am seeing the position of country that officially is labeled as Macedonia i.e. nowadays the state in the northern part of this region, something that as independence became reality on the serbian land acquired after the partition of the region after the ottoman withdrawal, the other two parts after ww2 didnt have that luck ... now we can argue who has the right to say Macedonia is mine, in my opinion now as statistical balance by population majority in the southern part of this region is normally Greece to say its our too, yes but without any reconciliation still on behalf all slavic exodus in the eagean part that was almost half century campaign from 1913 till 1949 which after continued as quite assimilation if we know that the macedonian slavic minority even nowadays is not recognized as real not to talk about any education or cultural rights that is somehow privilege, maybe unique exception in modern europe ... but aside the recognition inward Greece didnt except to recognize any macedonians outward, maybe from fear that somehow that could instigate in future somehow eagean macedonians separatism thus became hostage of its own fears! anyhow one part of this region now is claiming that is Macedonia inhabited by macedonians, but in case of Greece the state says no in Macedonia there couldnt be macedonians, dont know just is this burlesque paradox or xenophobia!? as macedonian I would mind if greeks would call themselves as macedonians too but nott doing it so and in same time dissolving to me to do that its hilarious! its simple fact that its only fear amid all this coz which in case of Greece just after 1990 the name Macedonia was instigated and still present only as administrative unit i.e. the southern part of the region, which by all means was never actually part of Greece before 1913 and to it was tied later as part of its megali idea, which idea actually became reality with little help from its friends in East India Company who in that way geostrategically through loans to its independence made own secured harbor on its route to south asia ... 

... here is ex-german ambassador in Macedonia Hans Lothar Steppan [1] arguing about this topic who is who and how why and when Greece actually became addicted to Macedonia and the macedonian question ...



again I'll say maybe its better this conversation to be continued in another thread in the history subforum !?

----------


## Axion

typo above I wouldnt mind greeks to call themselves macedonians, in that way they should behave also, but probably those that are not true macedonians have problem how to stay in their collective memory as such, hm from nationalistic stand point this is really hilarious, how can one nation in same time be hellenic greek macedonian minoan micean etc. lets say phoenician fable that nowadays looks like physchodelic trance in aryan cellophane! not that I am somehow saying they dont have right on such attitude, after all as Cristian I respect their free will, but paradoxically they dont mine, yet from secular atheistic viewpoint its matter of cultural struggle who to have touristic spinn in its pocket if not hand, which if not childish would be selfish argument so one neighbor would negate another, and in my opinion after the greek separatism fears this argument is another not so public motive why there is still in the 21 century country that would obstruct other to have own identity just because they can from their euroatlantic position while the other country was seeking to join their ea-clubs, tho they did what they did, we as nation allowed what we allowed and Almighty Lord is Witness that macedonians are among the first if not first nation to reshape its own national pride which on other hand is masonic enlightenment era ideal which as such is unchristian, altho this was done coz ea-deepstate blackmailing on which fell the last rotation of corrupt politicians which without official public consent or election legitimacy for such move changed the name of the state in NoMa and from national state made citizen state where there are no macedonians but citizens of NoMa, only the language is now left as Macedonian but now also that is obstructed by the bulgarian veto mids the beginign of the eu-enlargement negotiations after greeks have raised their ramp, thus now we as state and "nation" we have even bigger negating problem than earlier, and all this as from greek so as from bulgarian side could be easily surrounded just if we would waited little longer till in eu the consensus mechanism fall which sooner or later coz federalism needs would become norm ... but hello now whole paradox could be uplifted like this on public and academic eForums where this xenophoby could be ironed wide and long coz now macedonians are even in worst situation as human rights are in question than the native american tribes!

----------


## Yetos

deleted and erased by author.

----------


## Axion

its easy to say U are wrong, that would be propaganda! who bears the title of truth, politics and history is always biased from every standpoint, and I am understanding Urs but above all U should mine too as fellow member in this forum ... its not the matter which is what but who judge in the end who is who, in my opinion (at least for me) that is Jesus Christ Who Has Given to the balkan people one macedonian temptation, and through this many will lost not just their grace but also their salvation, and simply just coz condemnation of the others, they as BP's should not be after nationalism or ethnophiletism but to strive for Christocentrism, and only when all this lets say geopolitical hysteria is seen trough these eyes, only then all the problem becomes really hilarious! 

if U ask me history politics money everything U have it, its Urs , go with it where U want, for me its enough to be generous cosmopolitan, as macedonians as ever were, sharing and not grabbing, cooperating and not imposing, and only vice its our fast mouth or fast responses, if U are seeing Urself as such ok I dont mind Just enjoy the show :) btw find any new argument about the slavs from macedonia how they dont have any human right to call themselves macedonians coz greeks are feeling so but dont call themselves alike, huh if U read enough of Maria Gimbutas theories U will find out that slavs occupied whole balkan even Crete ...

... but again all this is just history, one can interpret it like this or that but its fact that in our case prejudice is taking us all on the balkan peninsula as hostages not to unite as Orthodoxy and shine in true lite as guardians of the Pure Christian Teaching but instead we are still living in the aryan romantic neopagan trans for antic heroes and mysteries, even worst we made nationalistic churches, which by all means if we know that the nation as concept derived from the neopagan european enlightenment era couldnt be incorporated as part of the Orthodox Church simply its heresy still wonder how this became and is stil is heretical norm for most of the OC Churches nowadays, hope as such eventually will evaporate, but also hope not too late!

----------


## Yetos

deleted and erased by author.

----------


## Axion

> My point is clear, 
> Everybody respect you. when you respect others.


hhm that is causality, the flat level of existence, I am talking for higher realms for forgiveness which should be on our side firdt step as macedonians, but there are other steps upwards like humility piety and all the Christian virtues that are moving us away from all that nationalistic possessive pride which rests on some historical exceptionalism that as such is not else but almost vampire lust that leads to another war another bloodbath another misery ...

...yet in case of Macedonia like no where in the world as humans we are negated the basic human right of selfdetermence how we feel and who we think we are, not that this is not case elsewhere but nowhere officially as in our case, thus till this basic right is not given we can be good neighbors by many ways but Greece couldnt call itself cradle of democracy but cradle of hypocrisy, here I am talking about the state brainwashing who still sees somehow enemy of its homogeneous aryan myth which in case there is cultural pluralism many are afraid that that will loosen the stability if not else on ideological anrcho-communist way ...
... if U ask me I could easily resolve this problem which have aroused as consequence of the past centuries balkan wars just by defining mandatory eu historical dispute commission, in which case we will easily find that greeks as ionians are Phoenicians while serbians as ilyrians and macedonians as thracho-illyrians are both Pelasgians ... in that case the slavic theory for sure will get new vibe as ancient as earlier as from bronze age, for what there is not just sporadic alternative theory in existence but also more and more evidence that supports it ...

now this is science and should be left to to the historians, but until NoMa its not full member of eu that would be futile attempt, tho this is very relative thing if have in mind all the risks that are ahead eu, which on other hand if becomes federal it would promote again the policy of regions as easier measure for regional development and that by itself will resolve nothing from nationalistic stand point even worst will build bigger animosities through whole continent, unless there is some kind of totalitarian regime that will calm all the diversity as unified mass, something that experimentally was done earlier trough ex-Yugoslavia but proved as non lasting approach of identity shifting from local to federal, which even in usA is not in full swing altho as is example in Russia, but in Russia there is one millennia tradition of building such colossal identity between different slavic cultural groups ...

----------


## Axion

Macedonia Things To Do Or Not ~ Just Nejoy (dont joy urself its addictive)

feel free to be like local too 1. an Macedonian 2. GreMacedonian 3. SlaMacedonian 4. BulMacedonian 5.SerMacedonian etc. dont say to Albanian U are Macedonian too ... just order Shopska Salad and dive in ...

----------


## Yetos

> hhm that is causality, the flat level of existence, I am talking for higher realms for forgiveness which should be on our side firdt step as macedonians, but there are other steps upwards like humility piety and all the Christian virtues that are moving us away from all that nationalistic possessive pride which rests on some historical exceptionalism that as such is not else but almost vampire lust that leads to another war another bloodbath another misery ......yet in case of Macedonia like no where in the world as humans we are negated the basic human right of selfdetermence how we feel and who we think we are, not that this is not case elsewhere but nowhere officially as in our case, thus till this basic right is not given we can be good neighbors by many ways but Greece couldnt call itself cradle of democracy but cradle of hypocrisy, here I am talking about the state brainwashing who still sees somehow enemy of its homogeneous aryan myth which in case there is cultural pluralism many are afraid that that will loosen the stability if not else on ideological anrcho-communist way ...
> ... if U ask me I could easily resolve this problem which have aroused as consequence of the past centuries balkan wars just by defining mandatory eu historical dispute commission, in which case we will easily find that greeks as ionians are Phoenicians while serbians as ilyrians and macedonians as thracho-illyrians are both Pelasgians ... in that case the slavic theory for sure will get new vibe as ancient as earlier as from bronze age, for what there is not just sporadic alternative theory in existence but also more and more evidence that supports it ...
> 
> now this is science and should be left to to the historians, but until NoMa its not full member of eu that would be futile attempt, tho this is very relative thing if have in mind all the risks that are ahead eu, which on other hand if becomes federal it would promote again the policy of regions as easier measure for regional development and that by itself will resolve nothing from nationalistic stand point even worst will build bigger animosities through whole continent, unless there is some kind of totalitarian regime that will calm all the diversity as unified mass, something that experimentally was done earlier trough ex-Yugoslavia but proved as non lasting approach of identity shifting from local to federal, which even in usA is not in full swing altho as is example in Russia, but in Russia there is one millennia tradition of building such colossal identity between different slavic cultural groups ...


No matter I am baptised ( force to do as all babies) I am attractive by pagan-polytheism

Now I am waiting to rewrite correct your first phrase at the begin of thread.

----------


## Axion

> I am attractive by pagan-polytheism


the problem on or in this neopagan topic lies not so in the personal as in the national strive to neopagan romanticism that became norm for most of the eu members, even here its like secular mythical wrapping around the majority of the Christian Laos in the balkans, tho I dont find the balkan states as prime suspect but prime victim of the european elites and their aryanism freemasonry colonialism and above all secularism that they have bestowed upon Orthodox World which btw was done with big smile, something what was and still is articulated here by local quislings! in this way was also implanted the past century vigorous hate which as such have never before existed, till level that even those that are Orthodox Christians are hating each other because they are members of neighboring Church, its almost as we are strangled by neopagan national pride to such extent that sometimes I think that we are not at all worthy to call ourselves Orthodox Christians ...

... as formal observation I must add that in Greece that neopagan vibe is not so much present as public expression, but on other hand in Macedonia it became plain fact that was installed by the last elites in power as parody of theme park in the Capital Skopye where in the very center of the city there are erected monument of idols like prometheus and athena across the parliament or the "eye" bridge of the civilizations in which eye is place statue of pagan priestess, simply unbelievable, hope that the Citizens will find courage and strength to remove them permanently from this world! I just dont get how to such move was prone party that declares itself as demochristian, alas their counterpart the socialists altho they were harvesting votes on a platform in which they loudly promoted their disbandment actually after they have come in power only polished them to shine more nicely, as they awaken to the fact that european union till bone is neopagan in its symbolic institutional appearance, tho I'll say in its core also i.e. how abruptly as union have forgot if not removed the Christian Tradition from every official narrative with excuse that its liberal system, hypocrisy no, but plain neopagan agenda hidden behind secularism if we observe all its emblems, hymn and enlightenment era narrative!

----------


## Axion

Yetos hm You shouldnt remove Your posts from the topic, after all they were just pointing to the normal vibe that exist as cultural problem among us as neighborhood, even if You ask me as prejudice there is less hate among macedonians and greeks than between macedonians and bulgarians, altho this is mostly on level of historical than ethnical level, and altho most of the people are unburdened by the hate propaganda, many coz and when politics need power argument are evoking that neopagan national pride as we were so unlike that we should curse ourselves constantly with xenophoby, something sadly that for many that are without vertical ideals it becomes as horizontal one most needed dope, nationalism that seeks historical exceptionalism if there was any influence crosscultural influence, as we were so separate through the centuries that only common niche is nationalistic hate, really paradox from Christian point of view ...

... and I dont see any way this to be dismantled but by demystifying how we came to this, for what again I will point my finger to the european enlightenment ideals, who knows maybe then forgiveness acceptance and belongingness with and to Christianity will shine upon all of us as neighbors ... 

one thing is for sure that if there is soon great economic depression in the world, not if but when it will happen, as neighbors I think we would need quickly to bury any hatred so we can thrive as humans instead nationalistic animals like nowadays! maybe the presence of eForums could ease this process but if they are used on accademic level openly so there would be constant ethical except historical debate through which there would be found steady agreement what when and how is logical someone to use some truth as meaningful, till then we will just tolerate each other but tolerance its not coexistence that if as such anytime flourish actually will open the true beauty of this region ...

----------


## Axion

talking so much against neopaganism must note that my pseudonym here should not be confused with Axios the mythical name of the river Vardar as we are calling it as slavic toponim, but its nuc.phys.particle ...

hm river that at least is the one true thing that actually connects us directly today :) here is overview of its flow through Skopye ...

http://www.build.mk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3745

----------


## Yetos

so from a touristic advertising thread, turns to a personal diary?

----------


## Axion

> so from a touristic advertising thread, turns to a personal diary?


eh when I jumped judging neopaganism this axion excuse started to glimpse, tho as digression opened way for another flow of linked photos ... 

... here is another one this time from the top of mount Vodno right above Skopye names that translates exactly Watery ... so maybe all the skopyes neopganism is symbolically washed by the largest european mountain Cross ...

http://www.build.mk/forum/forum_post...=161201#161201

----------

