# Population Genetics > mtDNA Haplogroups >  MtDNA Haplogroups I and W

## foryouandme

MtDNA haplogruops I and W interest me because they are so rare and uncommon. my theory is either they were a small close-knit community or they were killed by the newly arrived haplogroups in europe or hunted down as 'witches' or maybe they just kept producing more sons than daughters. for example, a friend of mine who is haplogroup I, told me that the her female matrilineal line of relatives going back as far as her great-grandmother have never gone without having sons whether they've had daughters or not. i'm sure henry viii would have been pleased.

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## Bodin

Largest population of I haplogroup mthDNa in Europe is among Boiki nation in northwestern Ukraine , it is about 10% . In Viking graves from Midle ages was also found 10% of I , but in today Scandinavia and places settled by Vikings it is much lower , that mean that I is dying out , or you theory about producing more sons is true . Eather way it is indangered specie . :Sad 2:  Hope I helped .

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## foryouandme

If U5a and HV were the first and second wave of cro-magnons in europe, then where does that leave I and W? were they perhaps neanderthals? i'm sorry, but i'm just confused with the ages of all haplogroups.

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## foryouandme

I have read other sources say I and W are older than U5a and HV but according to this from wikipedia they are younger than U5a and HV  :Confused: 




> *European haplogroups*
> 
> 
> 
> Bryan Sykes had claimed there were seven major mitochondrial lineages for modern Europeans but others now put the number at 10-12. These additional "daughters" generally include haplogroups I, M and W. A recent paper re-mapped European haplogroups as H, J, K, N1, T, U4, U5, V, X and W.[2]
> 
> N : 75,000 years ago (in North-East Africa)R : 70,000 years ago (in South-West Asia)U : 60,000 years ago (in North-East Africa or South-West Asia)pre-JT : 55,000 years ago (in the Middle East)JT : 50,000 years ago (in the Middle East)U5 : 50,000 years ago (in Western Asia)U6 : 50,000 years ago (in North Africa)U8 : 50,000 years ago (in Western Asia)pre-HV : 50,000 years ago (in the Near East)J : 45,000 years ago (in the Near East or Caucasus)HV : 40,000 years ago (in the Near East)H : over 35,000 years ago (in the Near East or Southern Europe)X : over 30,000 years ago (in north-east Europe)U5a1 : 30,000 years ago (in Europe)I : 30,000 years ago (Caucasus or north-east Europe)J1a : 27,000 years ago (in the Near East)W : 25,000 years ago (in north-east Europe or north-west Asia)U4 : 25,000 years ago (in Central Asia)J1b : 23,000 years ago (in the Near East)T : 17,000 years ago (in Mesopotamia)K : 16,000 years ago (in the Near East)V : 15,000 years ago (arose in Iberia and moved to Scandinavia)H1b : 13,000 years ago (in Europe)K1 : 12,000 years ago (in the Near East)H3 : 10,000 years ago (in Western Europe)

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## Bodin

Haplogroup I is as far as I know 30.000 years old , and W 23000 .Both of them are in Europe since Paleolite. In tombs from 7000 years ago ( Neolite ) in Derenburg , Germany there was 3 findings : 1) F* yDNA and HV mthDNA 2) G2a3 ydna and W mthDNA 3) F* yDNA and K mthDNA 
You wild find more info on that ( if you want ) on this thread:
http://www.plosbiology.org/article/i...l.pbio.1000536
There was also excavation from Neolite before 5000 years in Treilles in France , they havent find any I or W, but did my mthhaplogroup X2 in 4 of them and also 4 U5 , 7 J1 , 4 H3 , 3 H1 , 2 HV0 , , K1a , U5b1c , and, 2 T2B . Ydna was G2a in 21 cases , and I2a1 in 2 cases 
About Treilles findings hier:
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2011/05...somal-dna.html
Thanks for answering

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## Bodin

Also I think I mthDNA haplogroup has ben female pair to I yDNA haplogroup ( Findings from Denmark in Viking era shown 13% of I mthDNA and Vikings had high I1 and I2b yDNA , today highest I mthDNA is in Iceland -5% , and also elevated in Sweden and Norway - all have high I1 and I2b yDNA ,also nation of Lemkoi - Boiki in Ukraine has 11% of I mthDNA same as island Krk in Croatia , and both Lemkoi - Boiki and Croatians have I2a2 yDNA over 30% ) . But there is also high I mthDNA in one nation in Kenya( 22%) and there is no I yDNA . Which one are you I or W , if I am not to indiscret .

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## Nugget

> Largest population of I haplogroup mthDNa in Europe is among Boiki nation in northwestern Ukraine , it is about 10% . In Viking graves from Midle ages was also found 10% of I , but in today Scandinavia and places settled by Vikings it is much lower , that mean that I is dying out , or you theory about producing more sons is true . Eather way it is indangered specie . Hope I helped .


I'm not so sure about mtDNA I having more sons than daughters. That's not the case in my family at least. My maternal Great-Grandmother gave birth to sixteen children. Fourteen were females. These fourteen females gave birth to sixty-one females. My maternal Grandmother only gave birth to daughters and if you combine the children, that were born to these daughters, there are eight more daughters. These daughters have thus far given birth to thirty daughters and two of these daughters are currently pregnant with daughters.

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## foryouandme

> I'm not so sure about mtDNA I having more sons than daughters. That's not the case in my family at least. My maternal Great-Grandmother gave birth to sixteen children. Fourteen were females. These fourteen females gave birth to sixty-one females. My maternal Grandmother only gave birth to daughters and if you combine the children, that were born to these daughters, there are eight more daughters. These daughters have thus far given birth to thirty daughters and two of these daughters are currently pregnant with daughters.


Wow, that's a lot! Then perhaps I'm wrong about the having more sons part. It's a mystery though why Iris and Wilma seem to be minority haplogroups.

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## foryouandme

*Distribution of Haplogroup I and W from Wikipedia*




> Haplogroup I is found at very low frequencies (generally < 3%) throughout Europe, Middle East and South Asia. It is nearly absent in parts of Europe (Iberia, South-West France, Ireland) and *strongest in Iceland (> 5%), Scotland, Norway, southern Finland, Ukraine, Greece and western Anatolia.* A February 2009 study found that *Lemkos (a sub- or co-ethnic group of Rusyns) in the Carpathian mountains have the "highest frequency of haplogroup I (11.3%) in Europe, identical to that of the population of Krk Island (Croatia) in the Adriatic Sea".[3][4]* Haplogroup I has also been *observed at a frequency of 8.3% in Russians from Oryol Oblast.[5]*
> 
> The frequency of haplogroup I may have undergone a reduction in Europe following the Medieval age. An overall frequency of 13% was found in ancient Danish samples from the Iron Age to the Medieval Age (including Vikings) from Denmark and Scandinavia compared to only 2.5% in modern samples. As Hg I is not observed in any ancient Italian, Spanish, British, central European populations, early central European farmers and Neolithic samples, according to the authors "Haplogroup I could therefore have been an ancient Southern Scandinavian type “diluted” by later immigration events".[6]According to Melchior et al. (2008), "The observation of haplogroup I in the present study (<2% in modern Scandinavians) supports our previous findings of a pronounced frequency of this haplogroup in Viking and Iron Age Danes.". [7]
> Outside of Europe, the *highest frequencies of mitochondrial haplogroup I observed so far appear in the Cushitic-speaking El Molo (22%) and Rendille (15%) in northern Kenya,[8] Sindhis from Pakistan (8.7%), Kurds from western Iran and Turks from eastern and western Azerbaijan (both 5%), and Mazandarians from northern Iran (4.5%).[9] Found in Svan population from Georgia(Caucasus) I* 4,2%*


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_I_%28mtDNA%29




> Haplogroup W appears in Europe, West and South Asia.[3] It is everywhere found as minority clade, with the *highest concentration being in Northern Pakistan.[4]* A related unnamed N* clade is found among Australian Aborigines.[5] *Found in Svan population from Caucasus(Georgia) W* 8,3%*


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_W_%28mtDNA%29

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## foryouandme

Personally, I think haplogroup Iris people seem to be quite uniquely good looking, well my friend and her relatives certainly are. The females in particular seem to have very feminine delicate features. Dr Alice Roberts is haplogroup I she has delicate features.The Lemkos look similar to Laz people. BTW, I don't know nor seen any Wilma people, so I cannot say.

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## stevemillard66

hi everyone. i am new to the forum. i am from the uk although i now live in australia and i have just discovered i am haplogroup W.i am keen to do more research but have already discovered that there is much more to read on the more common haplogroups.
any help will be appreciated.

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## foryouandme

Welcome, stevemillard66

Have you seen these websites? 

http://www.thecid.com/

http://www.mitosearch.org/haplosearc...&submit=Search

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## stevemillard66

thanks very much .the sites were most helpful

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## alioth

As for mtDNA haplogroup I, of which I am a member (haplogroup I1a1b), most of my haplogroup ancestors died as a result of the Plague, AKA the Black Death. People have bandied about theories of annihilation, replacement, no daughters for a time, while it is a good quess, it is not supported in the anthropolatic record. There are lots of graves in Scandanavia, from the 14 century, which support the non immunity to the plague. Those graves are full of I1a1b's like me. After the Black Death ran its course in Europe and later in Asia, most of us were killed off as a direct result.

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## lluis

Do you know if the haplogroup I1c was also especially affected by the Plague?
By the way I have found this article with one advantage for the haplogroup I : *Mitochondrial DNA Haplogroups influence AIDS Progresión. Hendrickson et al.*
"...MtDNA haplogroups J and U5a were elevated among HIV-1 infected people who display accelerated progression to AIDS and death. Haplogroups Uk, H3, and IWX appeared to be highly protective against AIDS progression."

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## adamo

Not much is known about mtdnas I and W. they used the Middle East as a base and entered Europe through the Caucasus. Both these haplogroups are associated with Aurignacian culture in Europe. They arrived in Europe during the upper middle Paleolithic but for one reason or another, wether environmental or not, they where not very successful at staying alive and/or propagating their genes. Very rare hg's indeed.

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## janeliz

> hi everyone. i am new to the forum. i am from the uk although i now live in australia and i have just discovered i am haplogroup W.i am keen to do more research but have already discovered that there is much more to read on the more common haplogroups.
> any help will be appreciated.


Hi stevemillard66. I have just joined this forum and I am also haplogroup W, actually W1e. Do you know which subgroup of W you belong to? I thought my maternal ancestry would be straightforward English/European. I am also from the UK. I have gone back to early 19th century and so far that line seems to be in NW England but I have no idea prior to that. Have you done any family research or do you know where your ancestors came from?

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## adamo

Hg I takes place at very low % but reaches a maximum (5%) in Scotland, Italy, low 3% stretch across Poland, Latvia, Lithuania Estonia , low % in Caucasus region, small 4-5% spot in western Russia, and another similar spot more central Russia, 3% north Egypt = very bizarre haplogroup lol

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## Korbyn

Haplogroup I and W most likely came to Europe in abundance with Indo-Iranians.

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## Sherry Lafferty

I just found my haplogroup is i1a1, any info would be greatly appreciated .

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## Moi-même

From the genbank database:

http://www.ianlogan.co.uk/sequences_..._sequences.htm

The haplogroup is found in Morocco, Tunisia, Portugal, Spain, Italy, Denmark, Checkia, England, Wales, Scotland. So, generally West European...

Her mother subclade, I1a, is found among Armenians and Iranians, so your subclades should have come into Europe with either Neolithic farmers or Bronze Age herders.

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## Maciamo

> I just found my haplogroup is i1a1, any info would be greatly appreciated .


Have you read my article on mt-haplogroup I ? I1a1 is one of the most typically Proto-Indo-European lineages. It was found in the Yamna culture and spread to Europe and Central Asia during the Bronze Age.

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## Sherry Lafferty

Thank you for the information.

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## andorp

Anyone with mt-haplogroup I1b here? It seems to be rare.

I have read aobve and elsewhere that highest I mthDNA is in Iceland -5% also Lemkoi-people has 11% of I mthDNA and people on the island of Krk in Croatia likwise. Why only the macro haplogroup is specified for these groups? I mean "I" in Coratia or island could be different subclades (I1a, Il1b, I2a, etc.). Is it possible to find out from htese old publications based which sublcade do they belong to on the new phylotree?

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## Lebdover

This is my first post and just wanted to confirm that I am I1a1b and that my maternal female relatives are all very beautiful. I have joined the Iris project group and submitted my mt-dna to genbank. My branch of I1a1b is an Irish branch in the area of Athlone who came from Liverpool in England in the early 19th century. My avatar photo is of my mother.

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## Aaron1981

I admit as well...mtDNA I women are gorgeous from those I've seen. I'm sure it's entirely coincidental though.
My theory is entirely different. I believe mtDNA I to be Indo-European, or at least from the Russian steppes, and since the gene flow was male mediated during the Copper Age westwards, there was positive selection for local women who inhabited west-central Europe already.

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## Lebdover

> I admit as well...mtDNA I women are gorgeous from those I've seen. I'm sure it's entirely coincidental though.
> My theory is entirely different. I believe mtDNA I to be Indo-European, or at least from the Russian steppes, and since the gene flow was male mediated during the Copper Age westwards, there was positive selection for local women who inhabited west-central Europe already.


I think it depends on which branch of I mt-dna. Certainly some branches came to Europe via the Russian Steppes, some via Southern Europe in my opinion.

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## luiz.gustavo.sillos

Good afternoon. I found your message interesting. I was graced with these two rare haplogroups. On the part of my father, his MTDNA is the "I1" and his oldest ancestor was born in 1613 in Huercal Overa, province of Andalusia, Spain. Already, on the part of my mother, her MTDNA is even rarer. It is the "W8", and its oldest ancestor was born in Mrtola, Alentejo region, Portugal. Coincidentally, in addition to rare, the place of origin of these my ancestors report very few (if not, no case) the presea of these mitochondrial haplogroups. Greetings.Good afternoon. I found your message interesting. I was graced with these two rare haplogroups. On the part of my father, his MTDNA is the "I1" and his oldest ancestor was born in 1613 in Huercal Overa, province of Andalusia, Spain. Already, on the part of my mother, her MTDNA is even rarer. It is the "W8", and its oldest ancestor was born in Mrtola, Alentejo region, Portugal. Coincidentally, in addition to rare, the place of origin of these my ancestors report very few (if not, no case) the presea of these mitochondrial haplogroups. Greetings.

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## LeBrok

Welcome to Eupedia Luiz.

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## jehoneycutt42

Hi! This is my first time posting.I'm W4a1. From what little research I have been able to find, it seems that my specific hg is relatively new as well as rare. Also, my mother had 3 daughters and I have 4 daughters so, I assure you we do have daughters :)

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## Gransir

I belong to mtDNA haplogroup I2 ("Iris"). I would love any additional information.

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## avalon

I cannot find it in the BoiKi!Thanks.

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