# Population Genetics > Y-DNA Haplogroups > T >  Ydna T2 - new creation

## Sile

Y-DNA Haplogroup T and its Subclades - 2015

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Version History Last revision date for this specific page: 14 July 2015


• T2 PH110, PH196, PH478, PH526, PH550, PH768, PH933, PH1092, PH1106, PH1172, PH1268, PH1294, PH1343, PH1378, PH1434, PH1457, PH1546, PH1579, PH1583, PH1633, PH1691, PH1841, PH1867, PH1883, PH2017, PH2156, PH2279, PH2292, PH2328, PH2855, PH2861, PH2900, PH2933, PH2990, PH3010, PH3131, PH3150, PH3341, PH3399, PH3422, PH3474, PH3561, PH3721, PH3842, PH3862, PH3868, PH3922, PH3943, PH3996, PH4121, PH4216, PH4431, PH4591, PH4676, PH4746, PH4802, PH4834, PH4842, PH4892, PH4935, PH5136, PH5171, PH5181, PH5212, PH5256, PH5433

PH = Pille Hallast, Ph.D., University of Leicester, Department of Genetics, United Kingdom


response below from T project administrator
*The listed SNPs have been seen in two separate individuals who were previously just T-M184* (i.e. M184+ M70-).
They are sample bhu-1892 (from Bhutan) in the Hallast et al paper and YFull sample YF03586 (which is also a kit in the T Project, from Armenia). As there is no known recent connection between these two samples the SNPs can be considered non-private. YFull estimates that T1 and T2 split around 26,900 years ago (compared with an age of 15,800 years ago for the three-way split of T-M70).*

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## Sile

IMO, this means that T ( ydna ) travelled from its origins along northern Iran to Armenia then split 3 ways:

1 - through the caucasus mountains
2 - along northern coast of Anatolia and into europe
3 - down into syria and later lebanon

I refer the areas noted in modern terms

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## bicicleur

bhutan T split before LGM, 3-way T split was after LGM
during LGM most areas were deserted, humans survived in a few small 'refuges'
IMO bhutan T survived LGM in India, while the other T survived in the Persian Gulf, which was dry land during LGM

http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/657397

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## Sile

> bhutan T split before LGM, 3-way T split was after LGM
> during LGM most areas were deserted, humans survived in a few small 'refuges'
> IMO bhutan T survived LGM in India, while the other T survived in the Persian Gulf, which was dry land during LGM
> 
> http://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1086/657397


Maybe, but the oldest T marker in the arabian peninsula is aged at only 2000 years old.
point 2 , the 2015 paper I placed this year on this site, states that 100% of Kuwait people are of persian descent.
There must be some type of problem for this area if Kuwaiti's are all persian descent
http://link.springer.com/article/10....864-015-1233-x

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## bicicleur

the origin of the T1a in Karsdorf, Germany was very likely Anatolia

LBK
5207-5070BC
Germany, Karsdorf
KAR6a
T1a
T1a(PF5604, M70)+


Haak 2015



the origin of African T are very likely cattle herders from Anatolia, some 8 ka

both are more than 2000 years old

Anatolia was empty during LGM except Ionia (westcoast) which was likely haplo I

after LGM people reappeared in Zagros Mts, IMO from the Persian Gulf
people of Halan Cemi would have come from Zagros Mts
these were the first people to domesticate animals
http://www.penn.museum/sites/expedit...f-hallan-cemi/
the same people built the temple of Göbekli Tepe (same animal depictions)

my guess, these people were J1, T and J2b : hunters and gatherers of pulses and nuts who later became herders

as opposed to J2a and G2 who survived LGM in southern Levant, they became cereal farmers

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## Sile

> the origin of the T1a in Karsdorf, Germany was very likely Anatolia
> 
> LBK
> 5207-5070BC
> Germany, Karsdorf
> KAR6a
> T1a
> T1a(PF5604, M70)+
> 
> ...


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1182266/
The Levant rather than the Arabian Peninsula appears to have been the main route of entry into Africa, as the Egyptian and Turkish haplotypes are considerably older in age (13,700 ybp and 9,000 ybp, respectively) than those found in Oman (only 1,600 ybp). 

The only T found in Egypt was from branch T-L162 with subclade Pages21, it never joined or migrated into the horn of Africa ( east Africa ) , that East African group came via southern Arabia in the last 1500 years, most likely as per the paper of 2014 from Arabian and Indian slavers.

Careful how you use Ionia....one is in Turkey and the other is between Greece and italy. The Turkish one is associated with the "etruscan" Lydians.


Anyhow, as per post#1, the T people had negative M70, it would seem that M70+ originates around Armenia or Azerbaijan.
So, the comments states T1 was in india and the creation of T1a ( with M70 ) was in south caucasus

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## bicicleur

do you have alink to  the paper of 2014 from Arabian and Indian slavers?

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## Sile

> do you have alink to  the paper of 2014 from Arabian and Indian slavers?


http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...l=1#post423237


already commented on by Maciano

and others below
T was brought to Madagascar via Omani and Persian slave traders that made contact with the region. Not from admixture/arrival of Africans from the Horn of Africa, as this is barely documented if at all. These regions probably have a different time of introduction of T, with T reaching Madagascar significantly late from Persian slave traders of Hormuz.

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## bicicleur

thanks, I'll look into it when I have the time

J1-P58 Arabs indeed expanded from Yemen into Ethipia some 3 ka for the trade in myrhe and frankincense, but I don't think there was any T involved in that movement

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## Sile

With the very many Suadis, Kuwaitis, Yemeni and Omanis tested in yfull for marker T ydna, *not one is older* than 1000years .................what does this state?

There are older T ydna in coastal eastern-india ( above the tamils ) which are older in age than the Arabian peninsula ones

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