# Humanities & Anthropology > History & Civilisations >  New Archaiological discoverie in Makedonian tomps, could be Great Alexander's family?

## Yetos

the link 

http://news247.gr/eidiseis/psixagogi...o.2967620.html

I wrote about that about 2-3 years ago,
a big tomp with a perimeter or 500 m made by pure white Thasos marble stones, not plates, of excellent quality was discovered,
due to crisis the excavations were stoped and went with slow rythm and the area is guarded heavily by citizens, police even military.
today we know that is the only ancient tomp with fence in the perimeter!!!!




we know that is about 320-300 BC meaning the times of Roxane was living there, and his son Alexander the 4rth.
part of the marble perimeter was destroyed by Romans, 

the next by Amphipolis Lion seems to was a sign to that tomb, in fact was part of the perimeter,
but seems someone moved it in purpose, altough the symbols in both Lion and tomb are the same.




here is the estimation by architects of how it was built



at a height of 5.20 m,

the excavations are working with very slow rythms,
rumors say that it is roxane's tomb,
other that is a dedication of Phillip to his men, but the building time is much later

it will take years and years until we know for certain,

Just think, what can be found.

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## Yetos

it seems like fever run all over Makedonian scientists, 
Archaiologists and Architects arrive from all over the world,
the name of the Architect that made the tomp is finnaly anounced,
He was Δεινοκρατης ο Ροδιος (Dinocrates from Rodos) a personal friend of Alexander the great,the builder of Alexandreia (Egypt)

that is the top of the tomp where the lion statue should be, if Romans did not moved it,



Stone elements of the tomp that Romans moved next by.



the outside perimeter,



view by air,

the new rumors say that there is chance to find an Alexander's admiral tomp, except the case of Roxane,
or a tomp dedicated to bury Alexander build by Roxane, 

it will take years but seems something archaiological 'big' is there so as to be guarded by 200 armed police at least and who knows how many civilians and military

PS
if is Roxane's tomp, is our only chance to find Alexander's DNA since his wife and Son should be there.

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## motzart

What are everyone's thoughts on the newly discovered ancient greek tomb from the time of Alexander the Great, will we finally have a definitive answer as to which Y DNA Haplogroup the ancient greeks belonged? There doesn't appear to be any plans for DNA testing of the remains yet...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...der-Great.html

Personally I see it like this:

Plesagians: G2a
Myceneans: E1b
Dorians: J2

I predict any DNA testing to come up with E1b, you heard it here!!

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## bicicleur

this will only reveal the Y DNA of the Macedonian elite at that time

anyway my guess : 
Mycenians : R1b-L23
Dorians : R1b-L11
Pelask : E1b and J2b

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## Aberdeen

There have been a number of situations where interesting discoveries have been made by archeologists, discoveries that included human remains, but there was no mention of any attempt to collect DNA results. I don't know whether they just conclude in such cases that there's too much contamination to get viable DNA results or whether some archeologists are indifferent to or actively hostile to the idea of drawing conclusions about a site on the basis of DNA results. I wonder whether some archeologists think that conclusions about ancient sites should be based solely on an examination of the artifacts rather than having people from another disciple (genetics) reaching certain conclusions based on testing of the human remains. I know some archeologists work closely with geneticists but perhaps some don't.

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## albanopolis

> What are everyone's thoughts on the newly discovered ancient greek tomb from the time of Alexander the Great, will we finally have a definitive answer as to which Y DNA Haplogroup the ancient greeks belonged? There doesn't appear to be any plans for DNA testing of the remains yet...
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...der-Great.html
> 
> Personally I see it like this:
> 
> Plesagians: G2a
> Myceneans: E1b
> Dorians: J2
> ...


We have to wait if there are human remains at all! Greeks did not practice mummifying so its possible everything is eaten by bacteria's.
If they find any remains I would be no surprised to cluster preGermanic I. Macedonians were not Hellens which I believe were J1+j2a+g2a majority,

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## Yetos

> We have to wait if there are human remains at all! Greeks did not practice mummifying so its possible everything is eaten by bacteria's.
> If they find any remains I would be no surprised to cluster preGermanic I. Macedonians were not Hellens which I believe were J1+j2a+g2a majority,


Quite the oposite

Makedonians and Argeiads belong to the Dorians/ Aeolians, not the Achaians, their early name is Ellimians Ελλιμιοι = Eel people same

Posibilities are for 
G2a
R1b
AND DON"T BE SURPRISED R1a which is 24% in Makedonia and is following Dorians from Trikke to South Greece (doris 14%, Peloponese 14%) to Italy 8% to cyprus etc etc
BESIDES IF YOU WANT TO FIND ARGEIADS DNA YOU CAN FIND IT BY PHILLIP THE 2nd

Surely not E1b1b1 cause came to Makedonian and Central Balkans much after the fall of Makedonian Kingdom

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## Yetos

I will keep post photos since in Greece we live the madness of the tomp and the fever of earthquakes

the tomp entrance, 



the sphinxs





move of the stones at entrance









the marble entrance door, bellow sphinxs frasco and paint of black blue red





Until now arcaiologists do not know if the tomp was opened in antique by romans when they moved the lion,
surely we do not know to whom the tomb belongs,
most scientists spoke about 2 possibilities,
1. Roxanes and young Alexander's the 4rth,
2. Nearchos and other Alexander's generals admirals

the possibility to belong to Alexander him shelf is almost none,
the possibility to be a tomp dedicated to Alexander, an empty tomb, is open

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## Yetos

The entrance.





inside the προθαλαμος the hall







interesting is the opinion of the author of «Alexander's Tomb: The Two-Thousand Year Obsession to Find the Lost Conquerer»,
Nickolas Saunders, who believes primary what I also believe,
the tomp belongs to Nearchos,

and secondary to Kleopatra or Roxane

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## Ike

What are the chances that some of those "old" haplogroups could have subclades that are yet undiscovered? For example J2b1 or E-V13. Into something like E-V13a, E-V13b, etc ?

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## albanopolis

> Quite the oposite
> 
> Makedonians and Argeiads belong to the Dorians/ Aeolians, not the Achaians, their early name is Ellimians Ελλιμιοι = Eel people same
> 
> Posibilities are for 
> G2a
> R1b
> AND DON"T BE SURPRISED R1a which is 24% in Makedonia and is following Dorians from Trikke to South Greece (doris 14%, Peloponese 14%) to Italy 8% to cyprus etc etc
> BESIDES IF YOU WANT TO FIND ARGEIADS DNA YOU CAN FIND IT BY PHILLIP THE 2nd
> ...


 Are you still trying to convince me that Macedonians were Hellens? 
I like to remind you that, I have been in contact with History books written by English or German speakers, written in English language.
They all say the same thing: Macedonians were not Hellens. They spoke a language which was understood by Illyrians and Thracians. So a language of the same family.
The upper class of Macedonias acquired Hellenic language in Hellenic schools.
The last recorded time of Macedonian language spoken in Macedonia is 4th century AD.
You seem to know Greek language history written by Greek Government. That is not a history book. Its a book of lies about history. Fallmerayer made it clear to you Greeks.
Now, after 4th century AD Macedonians became Greeks. Greek is a wider term than Hellen. The term Greek includes Hellens, Ancient Macedonians, Slav Macedonians, ancient Thracian's, Albanians, Vlahs, Turks, Gypsies, Nomands and others that I don't know.
If you feel good calling everyone in today's Greece a Hellen do it, but its simply not true.
And as for Alexanders haplogroup I bet is Ev13.

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## John Doe

> Are you still trying to convince me that Macedonians were Hellens? 
> I like to remind you that, I have been in contact with History books written by English or German speakers, written in English language.
> They all say the same thing: Macedonians were not Hellens. They spoke a language which was understood by Illyrians and Thracians. So a language of the same family.
> The upper class of Macedonias acquired Hellenic language in Hellenic schools.
> The last recorded time of Macedonian language spoken in Macedonia is 4th century AD.
> You seem to know Greek language history written by Greek Government. That is not a history book. Its a book of lies about history. Fallmerayer made it clear to you Greeks.
> Now, after 4th century AD Macedonians became Greeks. Greek is a wider term than Hellen. The term Greek includes Hellens, Ancient Macedonians, Slav Macedonians, ancient Thracian's, Albanians, Vlahs, Turks, Gypsies, Nomands and others that I don't know.
> If you feel good calling everyone in today's Greece a Hellen do it, but its simply not true.
> And as for Alexanders haplogroup I bet is Ev13.


And E-V13 is most frequent among Hellens? Or is it frequent throughout the Balkans and can include non Hellen Greeks and non Greeks in general?

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## albanopolis

> And E-V13 is most frequent among Hellens? Or is it frequent throughout the Balkans and can include non Hellen Greeks and non Greeks in general?


My educated guess is that there was a relation between Thracian and Illyrian populations with Macedonians of antiquity. As far as I have read that relation was not too distant,
Since both Thracians and Illyrians cluster predominantly E v13 there is greater chance of Alexander being E v13. But again just an educated guess, nothing scientific. Its a good chance of him being preGermanic I since Macedonians since the present day population of that region today ha a higher percentage of that haplogroup,

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## John Doe

> My educated guess is that there was a relation between Thracian and Illyrian populations with Macedonians of antiquity. As far as I have read that relation was not too distant,
> Since both Thracians and Illyrians cluster predominantly E v13 there is greater chance of Alexander being E v13. But again just an educated guess, nothing scientific. Its a good chance of him being preGermanic I since Macedonians since the present day population of that region today ha a higher percentage of that haplogroup,


Alright. And Hellenes have a higher chance of being J2?

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## Yetos

> Are you still trying to convince me that Macedonians were Hellens? 
> I like to remind you that, I have been in contact with History books written by English or German speakers, written in English language.
> They all say the same thing: Macedonians were not Hellens. They spoke a language which was understood by Illyrians and Thracians. So a language of the same family.
> The upper class of Macedonias acquired Hellenic language in Hellenic schools.
> The last recorded time of Macedonian language spoken in Macedonia is 4th century AD.
> You seem to know Greek language history written by Greek Government. That is not a history book. Its a book of lies about history. Fallmerayer made it clear to you Greeks.
> Now, after 4th century AD Macedonians became Greeks. Greek is a wider term than Hellen. The term Greek includes Hellens, Ancient Macedonians, Slav Macedonians, ancient Thracian's, Albanians, Vlahs, Turks, Gypsies, Nomands and others that I don't know.
> If you feel good calling everyone in today's Greece a Hellen do it, but its simply not true.
> And as for Alexanders haplogroup I bet is Ev13.



*The Makedonian dialect is written by Hesychius the Alexandrine, Ησυχιος ο Αλεξανδρευς*
*
Αλεξανδρος was an Argeiad* *from the Karanos dynasty*, a son of Τημενος Temenus, and the only non Greek relative nation of Makedonians were Bryges (Phrygians) remember the story of Gordium.

*what you say, is how you wanted to be , but sorry it is not.*

*Venice 1514, Λεξικον Ησυχιου,* 


now about the crup you are writting,



*THIS IS PELLA KATADESMOS. KATADESMOS IS A LOW CLASS SPELL, MEANS COMMON PEOPLE, NOT KINGS, SO YOUR ARGUEMENTS JUST BUFF IN THIN AIR,
IT IS DATED MUCH BEFORE PHILLIP,* 

now take back your Panalbanism theories, *and ask back the money you pay* for this crup-books you bought, you were informed wrong.

the katadesmos is found at 1986, so all you mention are just crup, cause the evidence speaks for it shelf,

Muller 1825 and Bonfante 1987 are before the discovery of katadesmos and the rest new found of Makedonian nation by archaiologist,

*IF YOU TO CONVICE US BY A BOOK OF 1825, 
THAT ALEXANDER WAS ILLYRIAN AND IGNORE ALL THE NEW ARCHAIOLOGICAL EVIDENCES that found even Today, AND older HESYCHIUS LEXIKON,*
*THEN YOU DISERVE YOUR FAITH*

*is that what you teach your children in Albania? that Alexander was Albanian?* PFFFFFFF


end of discussion,
your dogma is wrong, supported by your will, not by truth.
your 'scientific' theories is like the times of scientists used liches to cure cancer.

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## Yetos

As I said I am posting what ever new I find until the tomp is finished.

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## albanopolis

> *The Makedonian dialect is written by Hesychius the Alexandrine, Ησυχιος ο Αλεξανδρευς*
> *
> Αλεξανδρος was an Argeiad* *from the Karanos dynasty*, a son of Τημενος Temenus, and the only non Greek relative nation of Makedonians were Bryges (Phrygians) remember the story of Gordium.
> 
> *what you say, is how you wanted to be , but sorry it is not.*
> 
> *Venice 1514, Λεξικον Ησυχιου,* 
> 
> 
> ...


Keep reading Greek Government books and you will be a laughing stock in the west. 
How many times I have to repeat to you that Albanians did not write their language until 1500 ad. So, to discover our antique history we refer to written history by antique Greek historians and Roman historians.
And surprise, what they say is that Grandmother of Alexander or Mother of Philip I was an Illyrian. Her name was Euridice. And another big surprise the mother of Alexander Olympia was an Epirote princes. Epirotes are an Illyrian tribe. So right here Alexander comes 75% Illyrian stock.
Now the question comes was Alexander culturally Illyrian? And the right answer will be: No.
All written records show that he was heavily influenced by Hellenic culture. Nobody is contesting that.
When Alexander was in danger of being killed when he was a teenager guess where Olympia send him for safety?
The answer is Illyria? He was living in Illyria and his name was Leonida. Why in Illyria? I let you answer this question.

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## albanopolis

> Alright. And Hellenes have a higher chance of being J2?


Hellens by the time they arrived in present place we call Greece could have been more than one haplogroup. But as you are saying they were predominantly J2 and R. 
They have exchanged a lot with Arabs and Phoenicians.
Hellens were noticed for their fine see ships and its universally known that the inventors of see going ships were Arabs. So Hellens were in close proximity with Arabs and learned from them shipbuilding. 
Greek alphabet is an improved copy of Phoenician alphabet, so Phoenicians and Hellen were living side by side.
Greek language shows heavy borrowings from Arabs ans Phoenicians.

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## albanopolis

> *The Makedonian dialect is written by Hesychius the Alexandrine, Ησυχιος ο Αλεξανδρευς*
> *
> Αλεξανδρος was an Argeiad* *from the Karanos dynasty*, a son of Τημενος Temenus, and the only non Greek relative nation of Makedonians were Bryges (Phrygians) remember the story of Gordium.
> 
> *what you say, is how you wanted to be , but sorry it is not.*
> 
> *Venice 1514, Λεξικον Ησυχιου,* 
> 
> 
> ...


This book is written by Ulrich Wilken, member of the Academy of science of Germany. The author died of natural causes around 1930. Its available in English translation in American bookstores. If he doesn't say that mother and grandmother of Alexander was Illyrian then I will publicly apologize to the members of this forum. If you say that the book is biased and its content is not true I will like to repeat that the author was at the time Member of German academy of science.

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## Yetos

> Hellens by the time they arrived in present place we call Greece could have been more than one haplogroup. But as you are saying they were predominantly J2 and R. 
> They have exchanged a lot with Arabs and Phoenicians.
> Hellens were noticed for their fine see ships and its universally known that the inventors of see going ships were Arabs. So Hellens were in close proximity with Arabs and learned from them shipbuilding. 
> Greek alphabet is an improved copy of Phoenician alphabet, so Phoenicians and Hellen were living side by side.
> Greek language shows heavy borrowings from Arabs ans Phoenicians.


you are so provocative, but you know nothing,

*THE GREEK ALPHABET IS ΚΥΜΗ CYME ALPHABET,*
THE ALPHABET THAT YOU USE, THE LATIN ALPHABET IS AN INVASION OF GREEKS,
SIMPLY LATER GREEKS ADOPT THE PHOENICIAN.

*Its name refers to the peninsula of Cyme in Euboea. The colony was also the entry point in the Italian peninsula for the Euboean alphabet, the local variant of the Greek alphabet used by its colonists, a variant of which was adapted and modified by the Etruscans and then by the Romans and became the Latin alphabet still used worldwide today.*

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumae

your hate blind you,
*DO YOU LEARN YOUR CHILDREN IMN ALBANIA SUCH CRUP?*


*UNDERSTAND IT, THERE IS NO LATIN ALPHABET, ONLY GREEK AND PHOENICIAN*.

*Perhaps in Albania since you claim that you are homeland of Dorians can explain us why?*
why you adopted Greek Alphabet at 1500 AD?
cause you were not even there, 
EVEN THRACIANS ADOPTED GREEK OR PHOENICAIN AT 400 BC, AND SLAVS CYRIILIC AT 800 AD
*THAT INDICATES THAT YOUR MASSIVE POPULATION WAS NOT LOCAL BALKANIC*.

*now tell us, plz
At your schools you teach you teach your children the Muller 1825 theory that Alexander was Illyrian although all discoveries from 1825 and after show the opposite?*

Have ever heard what is found centuries after Muller, and simply is same with what Hesychius of Alexandreia wrote in Lexicon?
I guess not, 
but simply 
*In Greek schools we teach that Alexander was Makedonian, and as Makedonian was Hellen, 'Ο ΜΕΓΙΣΤΟΣ ΤΩΝ ΕΛΛΗΝΩΝ'
tell us in your schools what you teach? Alexander the Greatest of Illyrians?*

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## Yetos

> This book is written by Ulrich Wilken, member of the Academy of science of Germany. The author died of natural causes around 1930. Its available in English translation in American bookstores. If he doesn't say that mother and grandmother of Alexander was Illyrian then I will publicly apologize to the members of this forum. If you say that the book is biased and its content is not true I will like to repeat that the author was at the time Member of German academy of science.



AT 1930 we knew the half about Makedonians,
Today we know the double,

Read the new books with the new archiological evidences,



*IF YOU BOUGHT THAT BOOK AFTER 1986  ASK YOUR MONEY BACK*  :Angry: 

and then read this 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pella_curse_tablet

we clearly speak about a Doric dialect with Aeolian pronounce, (v /ph much ι instead of e etc)
we even know the aspirations today, and you speak about what? a muller 1825 republished at 1930?

pffffff.

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## albanopolis

> *The Makedonian dialect is written by Hesychius the Alexandrine, Ησυχιος ο Αλεξανδρευς*
> *
> Αλεξανδρος was an Argeiad* *from the Karanos dynasty*, a son of Τημενος Temenus, and the only non Greek relative nation of Makedonians were Bryges (Phrygians) remember the story of Gordium.
> 
> *what you say, is how you wanted to be , but sorry it is not.*
> 
> *Venice 1514, Λεξικον Ησυχιου,* 
> 
> 
> ...








Black Lamb and Grey 
This is a book by Rebeca West named" Black lamb and gray falcon". She was a prominent British writer and wrote the book in 1941. If she oes not say that Alexanders mother and grandmother were Illyrian I will publicly apologize to members of this forum. If you say she can not be trusted I have no choice but scream to the top of the world.

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## albanopolis

> AT 1930 we knew the half about Makedonians,
> Today we know the double,
> 
> Read the new books with the new archiological evidences,
> 
> 
> 
> *IF YOU BOUGHT THAT BOOK AFTER 1986  ASK YOUR MONEY BACK*


Truth hurts. The sun can not be covered by a fishing net.

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## Yetos

indeed my neighbor, 

truth hearts,
and that is truth,

1. [ΘΕΤΙ]ΜΑΣ ΚΑΙ ΔΙΟΝΥΣΟΦΩΝΤΟΣ ΤΟ ΤΕΛΟΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΟΝ ΓΑΜΟΝ ΚΑΤΑΓΡΑΦΩ ΚΑΙ ΤΑΝ ΑΛΛΑΝ ΠΑΣΑΝ ΓΥ-2. [ΝΑΙΚ]ΩΝ ΚΑΙ ΧΗΡΑΝ ΚΑΙ ΠΑΡΘΕΝΩΝ ΜΑΛΙΣΤΑ ΔΕ ΘΕΤΙΜΑΣ ΚΑΙ ΠΑΡΚΑΤΤΙΘΕΜΑΙ ΜΑΚΡΩΝΙ ΚΑΙ3. [ΤΟΙΣ] ΔΑΙΜΟΣΙ ΚΑΙ ΟΠΟΚΑ ΕΓΩ ΤΑΥΤΑ ΔΙΕΛΕΞΑΙΜΙ ΚΑΙ ΑΝΑΓΝΟΙΗΝ ΠΑΛΕΙΝ ΑΝΟΡΟΞΑΣΑ4. [ΤΟΚΑ] ΓΑΜΑΙ ΔΙΟΝΥΣΟΦΩΝΤΑ ΠΡΟΤΕΡΟΝ ΔΕ ΜΗ ΜΗ ΓΑΡ ΛΑΒΟΙ ΑΛΛΑΝ ΓΥΝΑΙΚΑ ΑΛΛ᾽ Η ΕΜΕ5. [ΕΜΕ Δ]Ε ΣΥΝΚΑΤΑΓΗΡΑΣΑΙ ΔΙΟΝΥΣΟΦΩΝΤΙ ΚΑΙ ΜΗΔΕΜΙΑΝ ΑΛΛΑΝ ΙΚΕΤΙΣ ΥΜΩΝ ΓΙΝΟ-6. [ΜΑΙ ΦΙΛ]ΑΝ ΟΙΚΤΙΡΕΤΕ ΔΑΙΜΟΝΕΣ ΦΙΛ[ΟΙ] ΔΑΓΙΝΑΓΑΡΙΜΕ ΦΙΛΩΝ ΠΑΝΤΩΝ ΚΑΙ ΕΡΗΜΑ ΑΛΛΑ7. [ΤΑΥΤ]Α ΦΥΛΑΣΣΕΤΕ ΕΜΙΝ ΟΠΩΣ ΜΗ ΓΙΝΗΤΑΙ ΤΑ[Υ]ΤΑ ΚΑΙ ΚΑΚΑ ΚΑΚΩΣ ΘΕΤΙΜΑ ΑΠΟΛΗΤΑΙ8. [....]ΑΛ[-].ΥΝΜ .. ΕΣΠΛΗΝ ΕΜΟΣ ΕΜΕ Δ᾽ ΕΥ[Δ]ΑΙΜΟΝΑ ΚΑΙ ΜΑΚΑΡΙΑΝ ΓΕΝΕΣΤΑΙ9. [-]ΤΟ[.].[-].[..]..Ε.Ε.Ω[?]Α.[.]Ε..ΜΕΓΕ [-]

Makedonian language,



Makedonian alnguage

*All decades before Phillip,* 

you want non Greek books,
a good invest is the O'Neil (sidney univercity) from 2007 which includes all archaiological and linguistic data until 2004,
besides only Hescychius the Alexandrine lexicon is enough,


yes my neighbor, truth Hearts, you see ne de ska here, go elsewhere to search your possible roots,
*cause by what they found in Skopje this year, we know that illyrian use Phoenician Alphabet*.
meaning that Albanians may not be Illyrians

told you, Hodza build panalbanism propaganda in guesses and mouth to mouth stories to germans Austrians, but all were from 1800 until 1950,
*after that all modern discoveries show the truth, show exactly what Hesychius wrote in his Lexicon*.

I spend 24 E to buy the famous Austrian work J G Hahn, and when i see his methods I just want to sell it, at least take my money back.


*PS*
I asked you?
in Albania what you tell your children that Alexander was Albanian?

PS2 
it will be good for you what Δημιτσας published, 
search it and compare it with Barletti.

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## albanopolis

> indeed my neighbor, 
> 
> truth hearts,
> and that is truth,
> 
> 1. [ΘΕΤΙ]ΜΑΣ ΚΑΙ ΔΙΟΝΥΣΟΦΩΝΤΟΣ ΤΟ ΤΕΛΟΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΟΝ ΓΑΜΟΝ ΚΑΤΑΓΡΑΦΩ ΚΑΙ ΤΑΝ ΑΛΛΑΝ ΠΑΣΑΝ ΓΥ-2. [ΝΑΙΚ]ΩΝ ΚΑΙ ΧΗΡΑΝ ΚΑΙ ΠΑΡΘΕΝΩΝ ΜΑΛΙΣΤΑ ΔΕ ΘΕΤΙΜΑΣ ΚΑΙ ΠΑΡΚΑΤΤΙΘΕΜΑΙ ΜΑΚΡΩΝΙ ΚΑΙ3. [ΤΟΙΣ] ΔΑΙΜΟΣΙ ΚΑΙ ΟΠΟΚΑ ΕΓΩ ΤΑΥΤΑ ΔΙΕΛΕΞΑΙΜΙ ΚΑΙ ΑΝΑΓΝΟΙΗΝ ΠΑΛΕΙΝ ΑΝΟΡΟΞΑΣΑ4. [ΤΟΚΑ] ΓΑΜΑΙ ΔΙΟΝΥΣΟΦΩΝΤΑ ΠΡΟΤΕΡΟΝ ΔΕ ΜΗ ΜΗ ΓΑΡ ΛΑΒΟΙ ΑΛΛΑΝ ΓΥΝΑΙΚΑ ΑΛΛ᾽ Η ΕΜΕ5. [ΕΜΕ Δ]Ε ΣΥΝΚΑΤΑΓΗΡΑΣΑΙ ΔΙΟΝΥΣΟΦΩΝΤΙ ΚΑΙ ΜΗΔΕΜΙΑΝ ΑΛΛΑΝ ΙΚΕΤΙΣ ΥΜΩΝ ΓΙΝΟ-6. [ΜΑΙ ΦΙΛ]ΑΝ ΟΙΚΤΙΡΕΤΕ ΔΑΙΜΟΝΕΣ ΦΙΛ[ΟΙ] ΔΑΓΙΝΑΓΑΡΙΜΕ ΦΙΛΩΝ ΠΑΝΤΩΝ ΚΑΙ ΕΡΗΜΑ ΑΛΛΑ7. [ΤΑΥΤ]Α ΦΥΛΑΣΣΕΤΕ ΕΜΙΝ ΟΠΩΣ ΜΗ ΓΙΝΗΤΑΙ ΤΑ[Υ]ΤΑ ΚΑΙ ΚΑΚΑ ΚΑΚΩΣ ΘΕΤΙΜΑ ΑΠΟΛΗΤΑΙ8. [....]ΑΛ[-].ΥΝΜ .. ΕΣΠΛΗΝ ΕΜΟΣ ΕΜΕ Δ᾽ ΕΥ[Δ]ΑΙΜΟΝΑ ΚΑΙ ΜΑΚΑΡΙΑΝ ΓΕΝΕΣΤΑΙ9. [-]ΤΟ[.].[-].[..]..Ε.Ε.Ω[?]Α.[.]Ε..ΜΕΓΕ [-]
> 
> Makedonian language,
> 
> ...


Alexander the Great in no way is the hero of Albania. Not a single building or road carries his name, not a single bust of him occupies space in Albania. Albania is not short of heroes. 
But historical truth must be known to the world: Alexander the Great was by blood Illyrian, educated with Hellenic culture, who was born in Macedonia, who were not Hellens.
There was a time when Greeks were spreading lies and the world was buying them.
With the age of internet that time is over and the lies need to be discredited.
My purpose of this postings is not to convince Greeks about Alexander. My purpose is that the one who read this posts and wants to check whose allegation are true has a chance to do so by himself.
I want to remind you that 90% of Greek leaders of your independence surprise were Albanians.
So my message to Greeks is if you want to show the world what Greeks did in the past do it with pride, but don't take pride with Albanians because those Greek heroes were Albanians/

----------


## albanopolis

> indeed my neighbor, 
> 
> truth hearts,
> and that is truth,
> 
> 1. [ΘΕΤΙ]ΜΑΣ ΚΑΙ ΔΙΟΝΥΣΟΦΩΝΤΟΣ ΤΟ ΤΕΛΟΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΟΝ ΓΑΜΟΝ ΚΑΤΑΓΡΑΦΩ ΚΑΙ ΤΑΝ ΑΛΛΑΝ ΠΑΣΑΝ ΓΥ-2. [ΝΑΙΚ]ΩΝ ΚΑΙ ΧΗΡΑΝ ΚΑΙ ΠΑΡΘΕΝΩΝ ΜΑΛΙΣΤΑ ΔΕ ΘΕΤΙΜΑΣ ΚΑΙ ΠΑΡΚΑΤΤΙΘΕΜΑΙ ΜΑΚΡΩΝΙ ΚΑΙ3. [ΤΟΙΣ] ΔΑΙΜΟΣΙ ΚΑΙ ΟΠΟΚΑ ΕΓΩ ΤΑΥΤΑ ΔΙΕΛΕΞΑΙΜΙ ΚΑΙ ΑΝΑΓΝΟΙΗΝ ΠΑΛΕΙΝ ΑΝΟΡΟΞΑΣΑ4. [ΤΟΚΑ] ΓΑΜΑΙ ΔΙΟΝΥΣΟΦΩΝΤΑ ΠΡΟΤΕΡΟΝ ΔΕ ΜΗ ΜΗ ΓΑΡ ΛΑΒΟΙ ΑΛΛΑΝ ΓΥΝΑΙΚΑ ΑΛΛ᾽ Η ΕΜΕ5. [ΕΜΕ Δ]Ε ΣΥΝΚΑΤΑΓΗΡΑΣΑΙ ΔΙΟΝΥΣΟΦΩΝΤΙ ΚΑΙ ΜΗΔΕΜΙΑΝ ΑΛΛΑΝ ΙΚΕΤΙΣ ΥΜΩΝ ΓΙΝΟ-6. [ΜΑΙ ΦΙΛ]ΑΝ ΟΙΚΤΙΡΕΤΕ ΔΑΙΜΟΝΕΣ ΦΙΛ[ΟΙ] ΔΑΓΙΝΑΓΑΡΙΜΕ ΦΙΛΩΝ ΠΑΝΤΩΝ ΚΑΙ ΕΡΗΜΑ ΑΛΛΑ7. [ΤΑΥΤ]Α ΦΥΛΑΣΣΕΤΕ ΕΜΙΝ ΟΠΩΣ ΜΗ ΓΙΝΗΤΑΙ ΤΑ[Υ]ΤΑ ΚΑΙ ΚΑΚΑ ΚΑΚΩΣ ΘΕΤΙΜΑ ΑΠΟΛΗΤΑΙ8. [....]ΑΛ[-].ΥΝΜ .. ΕΣΠΛΗΝ ΕΜΟΣ ΕΜΕ Δ᾽ ΕΥ[Δ]ΑΙΜΟΝΑ ΚΑΙ ΜΑΚΑΡΙΑΝ ΓΕΝΕΣΤΑΙ9. [-]ΤΟ[.].[-].[..]..Ε.Ε.Ω[?]Α.[.]Ε..ΜΕΓΕ [-]
> 
> Makedonian language,
> 
> ...


About Phoenician alphabet of Illyrians: Illyrians have used Greek alphabet not Phoenician. There are all over archaeological artifacts where Illyrian names are written with letters. This is an open thing.
I wander where you have been educated. Since myself being educated in Cuny NYC, the fact that you don't know that Greek alphabet comes from Phoenician alphabet makes me laugh.

----------


## albanopolis

> you are so provocative, but you know nothing,
> 
> *THE GREEK ALPHABET IS ΚΥΜΗ CYME ALPHABET,*
> THE ALPHABET THAT YOU USE, THE LATIN ALPHABET IS AN INVASION OF GREEKS,
> SIMPLY LATER GREEKS ADOPT THE PHOENICIAN.
> 
> *Its name refers to the peninsula of Cyme in Euboea. The colony was also the entry point in the Italian peninsula for the Euboean alphabet, the local variant of the Greek alphabet used by its colonists, a variant of which was adapted and modified by the Etruscans and then by the Romans and became the Latin alphabet still used worldwide today.*
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumae
> ...


Latin alphabet is an invention of Greeks? 
Either you make the wrong choices of English words or whoever told you that was joking.
Yes, Latin alphabet is derived by Greek alphabet. Latins with their ingenuity aesthetically improved the Greek alphabet to create what is today Latin alphabet.
Its not like you are saying that Greeks invented it and told the Latins: Here is your alphabet, use it!

----------


## Yetos

> Latin alphabet is an invention of Greeks? 
> Either you make the wrong choices of English words or whoever told you that was joking.
> Yes, Latin alphabet is derived by Greek alphabet. Latins with their ingenuity aesthetically improved the Greek alphabet to create what is today Latin alphabet.
> Its not like you are saying that Greeks invented it and told the Latins: Here is your alphabet, use it!



*CORRECT*

the Greek Alphabet is that what is called Latin alphabet,

i forgive you since in all your post you just show only hate, and you promote anti-hellenism as part of your Agenda,

But READERS REALIZE WHAT YOU ARE SAYING

*YES LATIN ALPHABET IS AN INVETION OF GREEKS OF ΚΥΜΗ WHAT WENT WEST TO CYMAE AND GIVEN TO LATINS*.

AND YOU SAYING IS JUST FOR LAUGHS,
YOU ARE NOT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY, YOU ARE BLINDED BY YOUR PROPAGANDISTIC AGENDA,

PROVES

The Euboean alphabet was used in the cities of Eretria and Chalkis and in related colonies in southern Italy, notably in Cumae and in Pithekoussai. It was through this variant that the Greek alphabet was transmitted to Italy, where it gave rise to the Old Italic alphabets, including Etruscan and ultimately the Latin alphabet. Some of the distinctive features of the Latin as compared to the standard Greek script are already present in the Euboean model.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archaic...habets#Euboean

*I wonder now who is Joking?* 

besides, you did not tell me yet?
in Albanian schools what you teach the Kids? that Alexander was Albanian?


PS
the books you read blind you so much, that you can not distinguish the moon from the sun,
close one day the 'propaganda radio' and search your shelf, live your life, and not the life of others,
if you read books from 1825 and do not compare it with moderns then you live at 1825

l

----------


## albanopolis

> *CORRECT*
> 
> the Greek Alphabet is that what is called Latin alphabet,
> 
> i forgive you since in all your post you just show only hate, and you promote anti-hellenism as part of your Agenda,
> 
> But READERS REALIZE WHAT YOU ARE SAYING
> 
> *YES LATIN ALPHABET IS AN INVETION OF GREEKS OF ΚΥΜΗ WHAT WENT WEST TO CYMAE AND GIVEN TO LATINS*.
> ...


OK man I give up!
You have your views, keep them. 
Sleep quiet Albanians are not teaching their kids Alexander was their hero. But we are telling them that by blood he was Illyrian.
The books written in 19 century about antiquity are based on documents and archaeology.
The fact that Alexander was Illyrian blood comes from written documents not archaeologically.
As time goes by the content of documents does not change as you suggesting. Since we are in 21 century documents of antiquity used in 18th are not lose their value and importance.
Be aware that Romans have a lot if antiquity works that shed light on Alexanders ethnicity.
You appear either neglect or are not aware of their existence.

----------


## albanopolis

> indeed my neighbor, 
> 
> truth hearts,
> and that is truth,
> 
> 1. [ΘΕΤΙ]ΜΑΣ ΚΑΙ ΔΙΟΝΥΣΟΦΩΝΤΟΣ ΤΟ ΤΕΛΟΣ ΚΑΙ ΤΟΝ ΓΑΜΟΝ ΚΑΤΑΓΡΑΦΩ ΚΑΙ ΤΑΝ ΑΛΛΑΝ ΠΑΣΑΝ ΓΥ-2. [ΝΑΙΚ]ΩΝ ΚΑΙ ΧΗΡΑΝ ΚΑΙ ΠΑΡΘΕΝΩΝ ΜΑΛΙΣΤΑ ΔΕ ΘΕΤΙΜΑΣ ΚΑΙ ΠΑΡΚΑΤΤΙΘΕΜΑΙ ΜΑΚΡΩΝΙ ΚΑΙ3. [ΤΟΙΣ] ΔΑΙΜΟΣΙ ΚΑΙ ΟΠΟΚΑ ΕΓΩ ΤΑΥΤΑ ΔΙΕΛΕΞΑΙΜΙ ΚΑΙ ΑΝΑΓΝΟΙΗΝ ΠΑΛΕΙΝ ΑΝΟΡΟΞΑΣΑ4. [ΤΟΚΑ] ΓΑΜΑΙ ΔΙΟΝΥΣΟΦΩΝΤΑ ΠΡΟΤΕΡΟΝ ΔΕ ΜΗ ΜΗ ΓΑΡ ΛΑΒΟΙ ΑΛΛΑΝ ΓΥΝΑΙΚΑ ΑΛΛ᾽ Η ΕΜΕ5. [ΕΜΕ Δ]Ε ΣΥΝΚΑΤΑΓΗΡΑΣΑΙ ΔΙΟΝΥΣΟΦΩΝΤΙ ΚΑΙ ΜΗΔΕΜΙΑΝ ΑΛΛΑΝ ΙΚΕΤΙΣ ΥΜΩΝ ΓΙΝΟ-6. [ΜΑΙ ΦΙΛ]ΑΝ ΟΙΚΤΙΡΕΤΕ ΔΑΙΜΟΝΕΣ ΦΙΛ[ΟΙ] ΔΑΓΙΝΑΓΑΡΙΜΕ ΦΙΛΩΝ ΠΑΝΤΩΝ ΚΑΙ ΕΡΗΜΑ ΑΛΛΑ7. [ΤΑΥΤ]Α ΦΥΛΑΣΣΕΤΕ ΕΜΙΝ ΟΠΩΣ ΜΗ ΓΙΝΗΤΑΙ ΤΑ[Υ]ΤΑ ΚΑΙ ΚΑΚΑ ΚΑΚΩΣ ΘΕΤΙΜΑ ΑΠΟΛΗΤΑΙ8. [....]ΑΛ[-].ΥΝΜ .. ΕΣΠΛΗΝ ΕΜΟΣ ΕΜΕ Δ᾽ ΕΥ[Δ]ΑΙΜΟΝΑ ΚΑΙ ΜΑΚΑΡΙΑΝ ΓΕΝΕΣΤΑΙ9. [-]ΤΟ[.].[-].[..]..Ε.Ε.Ω[?]Α.[.]Ε..ΜΕΓΕ [-]
> 
> Makedonian language,
> 
> ...



During Rose Wilder Lane’s visit to Albania in 1921 resulting in the publication in 1923 of her book Peaks of Shala, she heard the following rather extraordinary rendition of Albanian oral history about Alexander the Great from an Albanian elder:
“There was at that time two capitals of the united kingdom of Macedonia. There was Pela, between Salonika and Manastir, and there was Emadhija(the great city Alb), *the old capital, lying in the valley which is now Mati (a high, fertile plateau north of Shkodra, near the coast of northern Albania – ED).* “Alexander’s father, Filip the Second had great houses in both Pela and Emadhija, and before Lek i Madh was born, his mother left Pela and came back to the original capital, Emadhija. It was there that Lec i Madhe was born, and there he lived until he was out of the cradle and rode on a horse when he first went down into Pela to see his father who came from the city to meet and see his son for the first time.”Filip the Second was very proud of his son, and his pride led him to the one great foolishness of a good and wise king. He said that he would make Lec i Madhe king of the world, and that was well enough, but he thought to be king of the world a man must be more learned than he himself. Whereas all old men who have watched the ways of the world know that to be strong and ruthless will make a man powerful, but to be learned makes a man full of dreams and hesitations. “In his pride and blindness, Filip the Second sent to Greece for an Albanian who had learned the ways of the ancient Greeks, and to that man he gave the boy, to be taught books. (*The Albanian’s) name was Aristotle, and he came from a family of the tribe of Ajeropi, his father having gone to a village in Macedonia and became a merchant there.* Being rich, he sent his son, who was fond of thought rather than of action, to learn the ancient Greek ways of thinking. And it was this man who was brought by Filip the Second to teach his son.”***P 1, ALEXANDER THE GREAT, W.W. Tarn, Beacon Press, Boston, 1956*Reference: Sir William Woodthorpe Tarn He contributed many chapters to the Cambridge Ancient History—on the rise of the Hellenistic world, on Alexander the Great, and on Parthia—and parts of the chapters between the death of Caesar and the death of Cleopatra. His account of Alexander, which was published separately in 1948 as Alexander the Great with a companion volume, Alexander the Great: Sources and Studies, showed an admiration verging on hero-worship. F. Adcock,‘Sir William Tarn’, PBA, 54 (1958), 253–62 • The Times (8 Nov 1957)• WWW • Venn, Alum. Cant.• The Eton register, 5 (privately printed, Eton, 1908)• private information (1971)• personal knowledge (1971)• census returns, 1881 • A. B. Bosworth, Alexander and the East (1996)
Take a look at this one!

----------


## Yetos

> OK man I give up!
> You have your views, keep them. 
> Sleep quiet Albanians are not teaching their kids Alexander was their hero. But we are telling them that by blood he was Illyrian.
> The books written in 19 century about antiquity are based on documents and archaeology.
> The fact that Alexander was Illyrian blood comes from written documents not archaeologically.
> As time goes by the content of documents does not change as you suggesting. Since we are in 21 century documents of antiquity used in 18th are not lose their value and importance.
> Be aware that Romans have a lot if antiquity works that shed light on Alexanders ethnicity.
> You appear either neglect or are not aware of their existence.


I am not afraid, I know the language spoken by ancestors, it is written in Hescychius lexicon,
no matter Christians and Clemes wanted to input christian words as Greek, the part of Makedonian is not changed, 
besides, from what is found today in Slavic Makedonia, we might speak that Illyrians left written, 
we will see soon,

----------


## Ike

> As I said I am posting what ever new I find until the tomp is finished.


Keep up... Nice photos.

----------


## Yetos

an axonometric view of the first 2 chambers of the ntrance hall.
all search from genetical to microclimate to architecture to static capability now passed to Aristotle university,

the guardian force is multiplied, they started with 200-250 policen, but late news say that more even army's special forces will move there,
the police force reach 800 men and seems a battalion of infrantry will camp soon,

the Tomp is huge, is like a modern stadium 
the new searches done with sound technics and wave response show A SECOND FLOOR under the one was already known,
we speak about a 2 floors tomb, first time seen for that age,


comparison with the Olympic stadium of Athens

the mosaic on the floor is simmilar red with the one found in Makedonian palace in Pella.
estimation give 2 and more years, but the diging may stop, unril they find systems to protect the monument from weather and atmosphairic conditions.

scientists are confused,
for first time we realize why Cheronia lion had no tongue in his mouth,
the lion had no tongue so to never say who's the tomb is, on controversary with other lions like the ones of Thebeans which had big tongue to say the histoty and the name of the battle,
the lion on top of the monument is a symbol of a man, military and wealthy man, sign of a king, a prince, a high general,
but the sphinx show the opposite, 
only in 2 other female Makedonian tomps sphinx were found, 
the one is the tomp of Ευριδικη euridiki Euridice grand mother of Alexander, 




so the case is full of mystery

----------


## King Bardhyl

> an axonometric view of the first 2 chambers of the ntrance hall.
> all search from genetical to microclimate to architecture to static capability now passed to Aristotle university,
> 
> the guardian force is multiplied, they started with 200-250 policen, but late news say that more even army's special forces will move there,
> the police force reach 800 men and seems a battalion of infrantry will camp soon,
> 
> the Tomp is huge, is like a modern stadium 
> the new searches done with sound technics and wave response show A SECOND FLOOR under the one was already known,
> we speak about a 2 floors tomb, first time seen for that age,
> ...


Euridiki ,was she illyrian ?

----------


## albanopolis

> for you se could be even Turkish, like you,
> 
> how that syndrom is called? when you see Albanians everywhere?
> *PSYCHOSIS?*

----------


## albanopolis

The above one is written by Ulrich Wilken member of German academy of science as you can see page 111. The book is titled" Alexander the great"

----------


## albanopolis

> for you se could be even Turkish, like you,
> 
> how that syndrom is called? when you see Albanians everywhere?
> *PSYCHOSIS?*


If you want evidence of Alexander being Illyrian in French:

----------


## albanopolis

> for you se could be even Turkish, like you,
> 
> how that syndrom is called? when you see Albanians everywhere?
> *PSYCHOSIS?*




-----------------------------

----------


## Yetos

*ΨΥΧΩΣΙΣ*


*Alexander's words,*

*<<ΠΛΕΙΣΤΟΙ ΕΛΛΗΝΩΝ>>* (πλην Λακεδαιμονιοις)
not kryesisht shqiptarë


before even the tomp is open, you post all the trash from the past.
Fyrom say he was Makedonians were Slavs
Albanians say he was Illyrian although they are not Illyrians

and nobody of you ever see what the Pella katadesmos and phiale say, 
you claim some wise guys,
*BUT YOU DO NOT SEE WHAT ALEXANDER HIM SHELF TOLD*

*<<ΠΛΕΙΣΤΟΙ ΕΛΛΗΝΩΝ>>*
not kryesisht shqiptarë

now put the hypothesis that 'your scientists' did, you know where.
*
IF ALEXANDER WAS ILLYRIAN, WHY ONLY 3 ILLYRIANS CLANS FOLLOWED HIM AS ΕΤΑΙΡΟΙ?*
AND WHY WE HAVE NO NAME, LIKE CRETAN ARCHERS, THESSALIAN CAVALRY etc etc

told you stop reading trash, they create you *PSYCHOSIS*,

----------


## albanopolis

[QUOTE=Yetos;438550]*
ΨΥΧΩΣΙΣ*


*Alexander's words,*

*<<ΠΛΕΙΣΤΟΙ ΕΛΛΗΝΩΝ>>*
not kryesisht shqiptarë[/Q
Tell me how many documents do you need to prove Alexandros Megallos was culturally Greek, Albo by blood. I can provide them in English, French, Swedish and Italian.

----------


## Sile

> If you want evidence of Alexander being Illyrian in French:


it says albanians are descended from Epirotes

----------


## Angela

Is no one aware that we have no uniparental much less autosomal ancient dna from Illyrians ? Or is the argument too much fun to let science interfere with it?

And how can any of you possibly know the dna profile of Alexander?

----------


## Aberdeen

> Is no one aware that we have no uniparental much less autosomal ancient dna from Illyrians ? Or is the argument too much fun to let science interfere with it?
> 
> And how can any of you possibly know the dna profile of Alexander?


Facts and reason just get in the way of screaming at your neighbour who has a different political agenda than you do.

----------


## albanopolis

> I am not afraid, I know the language spoken by ancestors, it is written in Hescychius lexicon,
> no matter Christians and Clemes wanted to input christian words as Greek, the part of Makedonian is not changed, 
> besides, from what is found today in Slavic Makedonia, we might speak that Illyrians left written, 
> we will see soon,


Why is this Englishman saying the same thing I am saying:Alexander was not Greek

The fact that Philip and Alexander used the Greek language for administration and were supposedly "Hellenistic" in orientation has more to do with political manipulation and administrative convenience than any appreciation for the Greeks. This observation is not disputed by historians. Thus the use of the Greek language does not tell us anything about the ethnic or cultural origins of the Macedonians. The English language has had a similar role in recent international history. The third largest English-speaking country in the world today (at least in population terms) is the Philippines, according to that country's own claims. Yet no one would seriously suggest that the people of the Philippines are English, or even American, by race or by culture. 
The evidence discussed in this book indicates that Alexander's mother tongue was not Greek, his mother was probably not Greek and his father was not Greek. Eventually Alexander himself became an "internationalist" rather than a Hellenophile, even to the extent of arranging marriages between thousands of Persian women and his own troops in a strange effort to merge the peoples and cultural extremes of his empir

----------


## Sile

> Why is this Englishman saying the same thing I am saying:Alexander was not Greek
> 
> The fact that Philip and Alexander used the Greek language for administration and were supposedly "Hellenistic" in orientation has more to do with political manipulation and administrative convenience than any appreciation for the Greeks. This observation is not disputed by historians. Thus the use of the Greek language does not tell us anything about the ethnic or cultural origins of the Macedonians. The English language has had a similar role in recent international history. The third largest English-speaking country in the world today (at least in population terms) is the Philippines, according to that country's own claims. Yet no one would seriously suggest that the people of the Philippines are English, or even American, by race or by culture. 
> The evidence discussed in this book indicates that Alexander's mother tongue was not Greek, his mother was probably not Greek and his father was not Greek. Eventually Alexander himself became an "internationalist" rather than a Hellenophile, even to the extent of arranging marriages between thousands of Persian women and his own troops in a strange effort to merge the peoples and cultural extremes of his empir


yes, but he was not illyrian either . He and his father fought many years against the illyrian invasion from the north. An invasion to stop the illyrians from taking macedonian lands along the *coast* after the annexation of the epirotes in modern albania

----------


## King Bardhyl

> yes, but he was not illyrian either . He and his father fought many years against the illyrian invasion from the north. An invasion to stop the illyrians from taking macedonian lands along the *coast* after the annexation of the epirotes in modern albania


Is this an argument?

----------


## albanopolis

> yes, but he was not illyrian either . He and his father fought many years against the illyrian invasion from the north. An invasion to stop the illyrians from taking macedonian lands along the *coast* after the annexation of the epirotes in modern albania


Read my above posts where German and English members of respective academy of sciences are saying,

----------


## King Bardhyl

> yes, but he was not illyrian either . He and his father fought many years against the illyrian invasion from the north. An invasion to stop the illyrians from taking macedonian lands along the *coast* after the annexation of the epirotes in modern albania


Sile, I have a question for you, are called Albanians throughout history in some sources Macedonian? Even in Bisantine and in Greek sources?

----------


## Yetos

> Read my above posts where German and English members of respective academy of sciences are saying,



DO YOU WANT US TO BELIEVE THAT AN ALBANIAN FOR YOU, A SLAV FOR SLAV MAKEDONIANS, INSTEAD OF UNITE HIS PEOPLE AND GIVE THEM THE GLORY,
UNITE THE GREEKS AND GAVE THEM THE GLORY?
*
DO YOU THING WE ARE SO IDIOTS?*

AND WHY WHERE ALEXANDER WENT GAVE ONLY GREEK AND BRYGIAN NAMES, AND TEACH GREEK?
BESIDES IF HE WAS ILLYRIAN WOULD AT LEAST ONE OF HIS EPIGONI BE ILLYRIAN?
WHY NO ONE OF EPIGONI CLAIMED ILLYRIAN ANCESTRY? 
DO YOU BELIEVE THAT MAKEDONIANS WHERE SHAMED ABOUT THEIR ORIGINS OR LANGUAGE?
*HAVE YOU* EVER READ HESYCHIUS LEXICON? ARIANOS OR AT LEAST THE STELES THAT ALEXANDER BUILD?
WHY MAKEDONIANS CLAIM AS THEIR ANCESTOR *KARAMOS* HAVE YOU ANY IDEA WHO HE WAS?

BESIDES THE MAKEDONIAN DIALECT IS SAVED AND PROVEN, 
BY THE BEFORE EVEN PHILLIP ARCHIOLOGICAL DISCOVERIES OF COMMON PEOPLE LANGUAGE 
BY HESCHCHIUS OF ALEXANDREIA,
*BESIDES FROM ANABASIS OF ALEXANDER THE ONLY WHO GAVE TRIBUTE WERE THE BRYGIANS AND GORDIUM, THE THRACIANS WHO STILL LIVE AMONG US.* *WHY?*
it is more possible to be a Mygdonian than a Illyrian 


now for the rest, even Eistein was wrong about quantum mechanics,
we forgive him, but we march on,
*I said to you read a good book by James L. O'Neil's Sidney univercity at 2013, about Makedonians which take all modern archaiological discoveries and written from the beging of time until the Mithridateian wars*

*THEY ARE ALSO RESPECTED ACADEMICS WITH GREATER AWARDS* 

The discovery of the Pella curse tablet, according to *Olivier Masson*, substantiates the view that the ancient Macedonian language was a form of North-West Greek:[13] "Yet in contrast with earlier views which made of it {i.e. Macedonian} an Aeolic dialect (O. Hoffmann compared Thessalian) we must by now think of a link with North-West Greek (Locrian, Aetolian, Phocidian, Epirote). This view is supported by the recent discovery at Pella of a curse tablet (4th cent. BC), which may well be the first 'Macedonian' text attested (provisional publication by E. Voutyras; cf. the Bulletin Epigraphique in Rev. Et. Grec. 1994, no. 413); the text includes an adverb "opoka" which is not Thessalian."


Of the same opinion is James L. O'Neil's (University of Sydney) presentation at the 2005 Conference of the Australasian Society for Classical Studies, entitled "Doric Forms in Macedonian Inscriptions" (abstract): "A fourth‐century BC curse tablet from Pella shows word forms which are clearly Doric, but a different form of Doric from any of the west Greek dialects of areas adjoining Macedon. Three other, very brief, fourth century inscriptions are also indubitably Doric. These show that a Doric dialect was spoken in Macedon, as we would expect from the West Greek forms of Greek names found in Macedon. And yet later Macedonian inscriptions are in Koine avoiding both Doric forms and the Macedonian voicing of consonants. The native Macedonian dialect had become unsuitable for written documents."


Professor Johannes Engels of the University of Cologne argues that the Pella curse tablet provides evidence to support that Macedonian was a North-West Greek dialect:[14] "Another very important testimony comes from the so-called Pella curse tablet. This is a text written in Doric Greek and found in 1986 [...] This has been judged to be the most important ancient testimony to substantiate that Macedonian was a north-western Greek and mainly a Doric dialect."*only from Wiki I found 3, except the Greek academics* 

*AREN'T THEY RESPECTIVE? AREN"T THEY SCIENTISTS? AREN"T THEY ACADEMICS?*

you remind me what Jesus told, 
you cut to pieces a mosquito to observe it, and you swallow the camel but did not notice,

*AND I ASK YOU, 
EVEN BEFORE PHILLIP WE FIND A DORIC LANGUAGE, WE FIND THE ASPIRATIONS, WE KNOW THAT IS LANGUAGE OF COMMON PEOPLE WRITEN IN BOTLES AND SPELLS (low class low education peoples,)
we have lexicon of that language from the times of Alexandreia and we have smash the mosquito,
and you want me to swallow your camel of a possible, non proven theories, with germanic not even celtic aspirations that they were Albanians?
*


now its late 
go to sleep and dream that you are a Greek, of Illyrian ancestry that speaks Albanian

but before read this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pella_curse_tablet

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient...onian_language

it will do you good.
you see day by day our knowledge increase, also our judgement, so take a look by your shelf
*I understand the words, do you? or you need translator?

YOU SEE GREEK KOINE IS EVOLUTION OF MAKEDONIAN DIALECT

besides only the testimony of Livy is enough.

sweet dreams, 
*

----------


## Yetos

Καρυατιδες Caryatids

the most know are the parthenon Akropolis 




in Amfipolis found 2,



name and origin

the oldest caryatids were found in Sifnos treasury, 
Caryatids are consider as Ionian while dorian prefered Atlas

caryatids existance give a religious or economical colour, we find them mostly in treasuries, or in holy places or next to temples, 
at least I never heard about a caryatid inside a temple, although the besides room or in pre-entrances we can see,

the name is given by a Roman Vitruvius Pollio, cause he compare them with the female dancers of Karya (Laconia), they dance with a flat dish in their head full of flowers, and legs almost tied,
it is said that he call girls from Karya from peloponese when he designed Pantheon so to have live models
until that day they named as Kορη.

that makes the Amfipolis tomp strange,

1rst we have the lion without tongue (no speaking meaning never tell who or what) means a male a king or generals tomp
2nd we have sphinx simmilar to Euridice (grand mother of Alexander) means female tomp
3rd caryatids means a holy place, a dedication to gods 
4rth red mosaic in floor and Makedonian roses show Makedonian creation as tomp, but also as palace!!!!!!!

the news give that a 4rth wall is found, which mean more agony.


Now about the owners,
many scientists said the possibilities, 
I will mention which proposed or reject who,
simply I will put a max and a min %

1. Alexander the Great min

2. Roxane wife of Alexander max

3. Phillip the 3rd brother of Kassandros Cassander min

4. Alexander the 4rth son of Alexander max

5. Olympias mother of Alexander min

6. Kassandros Cassander min

7. Αντιγονος Α κυκλωψ Antigonus the monophtalmos max

8. Ηφαιστιων Hephaestion Alexander's best friend min

9. Ηρακλης hercules son of Alexander with Barsine min

10. Πολυσπερχων Polisperchon Phillip's general max

11. Nεαρχος nearchus Alexanders admiral max

12. ΛΑομεδων Laomedon Alexanders Admiral max

13. Ανδροσθενης Androsthenes Alexander's admiral max

14 Brasidas of Sparta min

15. Αγνωνας Agnon Athenean general min

16. An empty tomp/memorial max.

----------


## Yetos

> My educated guess is that there was a relation between Thracian and Illyrian populations with Macedonians of antiquity. As far as I have read that relation was not too distant,
> Since both Thracians and Illyrians cluster predominantly E v13 there is greater chance of Alexander being E v13. But again just an educated guess, nothing scientific. Its a good chance of him being preGermanic I since Macedonians since the present day population of that region today ha a higher percentage of that haplogroup,


that is something which I checked these days,
*indeed there is big possibility to be I1*
finally something we may agree.

there is a part of Greeks which belong to palaiolithic people next to sardinians and they are mostly I1 y-Dna

although to me G2a R1b and surpisengly R1a is more possible
I exclude all J and E possibilities, but an I1 possibility you mention might be

but first must know who is inside

----------


## Yetos

the first look in 3rd chamber

the chamber is in limited conditions to crush,
that will stop the further excavations until the chamber roof stabilize,
it is because in the one part (south) the above soil is about 2,5 meters while in the other (north) is about 12-13 meters.

in the photos you see the conditions of the chamber, and the situation of the static limit,
the massive stone bricks as you see broke and many times the empty among them is big, while due to weight and pressure we see split of smaller outside surface pieces

----------


## Dianatomia

> They spoke a language which was understood by Illyrians and Thracians. So a language of the same family.
> The last recorded time of Macedonian language spoken in Macedonia is 4th century AD.


Any evidence of that claim? It is very simple. You and many other Albanians don't need to go out of your way on forums like these and write all of your claims. Scientific evidence is a blow in the face. You really don't need to convince anyone if the evidence is there. So please, show us evidence of a Macedonian languange not akin to Greek. It would be very helpful to us.

----------


## Yetos

well works to stabilize the statics of tomp continue.

2 more interesting photos



until now they are at 3rth chamber, they see the gate, but possibly is a 4rth chamber.




this is what we call Greek foot, again we find it for another time, thousands to myriads times to who knows how many?
the soes are the typical κοθορνος/κοθορνοι cothurnus, in red and yellow,



the height is more than 2 meters, they stand on an βαθρο, a column


*Now a new scenario is on loose.*

the karyatid existance seems to pass the excavations to another lvl,
according to new hypothetical theories, the Caryatids show the Artemis (diana) style, since their difference is obvious,
that follows the Makedonian religion upon which Artemis was the protecting godess, who fly over the battle,
in that case we might have something unexpected here,
a temple of *Artemis*, closed by Christians, 
yet all are still theories,

----------


## albanopolis

> Any evidence of that claim? It is very simple. You and many other Albanians don't need to go out of your way on forums like these and write all of your claims. Scientific evidence is a blow in the face. You really don't need to convince anyone if the evidence is there. So please, show us evidence of a Macedonian languange not akin to Greek. It would be very helpful to us.


Many scholars have concluded that the ancient Macedonian language was not a Greek dialect and that it was more or less related to the languages of Macedonia's northern neighbors, the Illyrians and the Thracians. These scholars include Muller and Mayer, writing in the nineteenth century, and Thumb, Thumb-Kieckers, Vasmer, Kacarov, Beshevljev, Budimir, Pisani, Russu, Baric, Poghirc, Chantraine, Katicic, and Nerosnak, writing in the twentieth. Here attention will be given to sources more readily accessible to those who want to inquire further.

----------


## albanopolis

> Any evidence of that claim? It is very simple. You and many other Albanians don't need to go out of your way on forums like these and write all of your claims. Scientific evidence is a blow in the face. You really don't need to convince anyone if the evidence is there. So please, show us evidence of a Macedonian languange not akin to Greek. It would be very helpful to us.


This is an article written by Greek linguists. As you can expect they are trying to make the case that Macedonian language is Greek. I am posting only the section where you can find authors and sources that claim otherwise.


*The speech of the ancient Macedonians, in the light of recent epigraphic discoveries**By Miltiades Hatzopoulos, VI International Symposion on Ancient Macedonia, 1999.*
Modern discussion of the speech of the ancient Macedonians began in 1808, when F. G. Sturz published a small book entitled _De dialecto macedonica liber_ (Leipzig 1808), intended to be a scientific enquiry into the position of Macedonian within Greek. However, after the publication of O. Müller’s work_Über die Wohnsitz, die Abstammung und die ältere Geschichte des makedonischen Volks_ (Berlin 1825), the discussion evolved into an acrimonious controversy -- initially scientific but soon political -- about the Greek or non-Greek nature of this tongue. Diverse theories were put forward:
I) Macedonian is a mixed language either of partly Illyrian origin -- such was the position of Müller himself, G. Kazaroff, M. Rostovtzeff, M. Budimir, H. Baric; or of partly Thracian origin, as it was maintained by D. Tzanoff.
II) Macedonian is a separate Indo-European language. This was the opinion of V. Pisani, I. Russu, G. Mihailov, P. Chantraine, I. Pudic, C. D. Buck, E. Schwyzer, V. Georgiev, W. W. Tarn and of O. Masson in his youth.
III) But according to most scholars Macedonian was a Greek dialect. This view has been expanded by F. G. Sturz, A. Fick, G. Hatzidakis, O. Hoffmann, F. Solmsen, V. Lesny, Andriotis, F. Geyer, N. G. L. Hammond, N. Kalleris, A. Toynbee, Ch. Edson and O. Masson in his mature years.

----------


## albanopolis

> well works to stabilize the statics of tomp continue.
> 
> 2 more interesting photos
> 
> 
> 
> until now they are at 3rth chamber, they see the gate, but possibly is a 4rth chamber.
> 
> 
> ...


This findings are amazing. A culmination of the greatness of the Greek culture. But the property of a not Greek population.

----------


## Yetos

> This findings are amazing. A culmination of the greatness of the Greek culture. But the property of a not Greek population.





thank you,
by hearing that from you, I am certain now,
kisses, I love you too

----------


## albanopolis

> thank you,
> by hearing that from you, I am certain now,
> kisses, I love you too


No one is trying to diminish the stature of Antique Hellenic culture. This is another show of the greatness of that culture. Hellenes own the monopoly of antiquity. But when it comes to Emadhia (alb translation;The big one) many questions arise.
They are not questions from Albanians but from well known world historians and linguists.

----------


## Ike

> This findings are amazing. A culmination of the greatness of the Greek culture. But the property of a not Greek population.


From the mouth of probably Greek himself :)

----------


## Dianatomia

> Many scholars have concluded that the ancient Macedonian language was not a Greek dialect and that it was more or less related to the languages of Macedonia's northern neighbors, the Illyrians and the Thracians. These scholars include Muller and Mayer, writing in the nineteenth century, and Thumb, Thumb-Kieckers, Vasmer, Kacarov, Beshevljev, Budimir, Pisani, Russu, Baric, Poghirc, Chantraine, Katicic, and Nerosnak, writing in the twentieth. Here attention will be given to sources more readily accessible to those who want to inquire further.


I won't go in it to much detail in historians who may have had second thoughts about the Macedonian language. I am talking about primary evidence. 
You are speaking of a Macedonian language not akin to Greek. Would you care showing us a specimen of it? All we have is the names the Macedonians used for themselves, their pets, the place names and and name of their kingdom (all Greek) and the Pella curse tablet (Dorian north-west Greek) uncovered in Macedonia. The latter nailed the coffin on many who may have had some second thoughts before that.

We are talking about a people who have conquered the known world and have left nothing but Greek elements, from Greece to India. I would have expected they had left something of their unique language. 
All the rest is secondary and speculative. I would have absolutely nothing against evidence of them speaking a non-Greek language. Find me the evidence and I'll be with you.

----------


## albanopolis

> I won't go in it to much detail in historians who may have had second thoughts about the Macedonian language. I am talking about primary evidence. 
> You are speaking of a Macedonian language not akin to Greek. Would you care showing us a specimen of it? All we have is the names the Macedonians used for themselves, their pets, the place names and and name of their kingdom (all Greek) and the Pella curse tablet (Dorian north-west Greek) uncovered in Macedonia. The latter nailed the coffin on many who may have had some second thoughts before that.
> 
> We are talking about a people who have conquered the known world and have left nothing but Greek elements, from Greece to India. I would have expected they had left something of their unique language. 
> All the rest is secondary and speculative. I would have absolutely nothing against evidence of them speaking a non-Greek language. Find me the evidence and I'll be with you.


There is hard evidence of Macedonians being non Greeks. Greek historians wrote that they (Macedonians) spoke a language that Greeks did not understand. Had it been a dialect of Greek there would have been some words Greeks understood.
I know Greeks like that Macedonian language to be a dialect of Greek but it is not.
You want to have fun kidding yourself, do it, but the issue is never going to go away.
A great majority of scholars including a Greek historian from Columbia university.
It really makes no sense discussing further this topic.
You keep your views, I am not changing mines,.

----------


## Ike

You still live in a period before Pella Tablet?

----------


## Dianatomia

> You still live in a period before Pella Tablet?


Not to mention that he lied in his response.

----------


## Yetos

> There is hard evidence of Macedonians being non Greeks. Greek historians wrote that they (Macedonians) spoke a language that Greeks did not understand. Had it been a dialect of Greek there would have been some words Greeks understood.
> I know Greeks like that Macedonian language to be a dialect of Greek but it is not.
> You want to have fun kidding yourself, do it, but the issue is never going to go away.
> A great majority of scholars including a Greek historian from Columbia university.
> It really makes no sense discussing further this topic.
> You keep your views, I am not changing mines,.


Sorry.

from Plutarch
«πάσαι μεν αι τήδε γυναίκες ένοχοι τοις Ορφικοίς ούσαι και τοις περί τον* Διόνυσον* οργιασμοίς εκ του πάνυ παλαιού, Κλώδωνές τε και Μιμαλλόνες επωνυμίαν έχουσαι, πολλά ταις Ηδωνίσι και ταις περί τον Αίμον *Θρήσσαις* όμοια δρώσιν»

«Το ότι ο Αλέξανδρος στην καταγωγή από την πλευρά του πατέρα του ήταν απόγονος του Ηρακλή, από τον Κάρανο, και από την πλευρά της μητέρας του ήταν απόγονος του Αιακού, από το Νεοπτόλεμο, δεν αμφισβητείται σχεδόν από κανέναν.»

try to read plutarch

Olympias was an Aekis from Αιακος Aeacidae. Achileus Neoptolemos (Πυρρος) Πυρρος In Makedonian means readhair κεβληπυρις (redhead bird)
her real name was Μυρταλη from μυρτιλλον tree (myrtacae)

so your dream about the Illyrian origin of Alexander again vanish in thin air,
Olympias follow the religion of Dionysos,

----------


## Garrick

> Sorry.
> 
> from Plutarch
> «πάσαι μεν αι τήδε γυναίκες ένοχοι τοις Ορφικοίς ούσαι και τοις περί τον* Διόνυσον* οργιασμοίς εκ του πάνυ παλαιού, Κλώδωνές τε και Μιμαλλόνες επωνυμίαν έχουσαι, πολλά ταις Ηδωνίσι και ταις περί τον Αίμον *Θρήσσαις* όμοια δρώσιν»
> 
> «Το ότι ο Αλέξανδρος στην καταγωγή από την πλευρά του πατέρα του ήταν απόγονος του Ηρακλή, από τον Κάρανο, και από την πλευρά της μητέρας του ήταν απόγονος του Αιακού, από το Νεοπτόλεμο, δεν αμφισβητείται σχεδόν από κανέναν.»
> 
> try to read plutarch
> 
> ...


Today is getting ridiculous reading various forums what people write. From West to East some Balkan (even non-Balkan) people claim that Alexander the Great was member of their nation. Evidence is not important, only what they want to say. Madness or what.

Pella tablet gave new proof that Ancient Macedonian was North Western Greek dialect, part of the Doric dialect. If someone wants evidence he or she can see, but there are people who are not interested in evidence, just what they imagined.

According to current knowledge of science, there is a probability Alexander the Great was (North Western) Greek and E-V13 carrier. Evidence derived indirectly which means that there is a probability of error. With every new discovery (genetic, archeological, linguistic etc.) we are closer to conclusion that Macedonians were North Western Greek tribe.

----------


## Yetos

> Today is getting ridiculous reading various forums what people write. From West to East some Balkan (even non-Balkan) people claim that Alexander the Great was member of their nation. Evidence is not important, only what they want to say. Madness or what.
> 
> Pella tablet gave new proof that Ancient Macedonian was North Western Greek dialect, part of the Doric dialect. If someone wants evidence he or she can see, but there are people who are not interested in evidence, just what they imagined.
> 
> According to current knowledge of science, there is a probability Alexander the Great was (North Western) Greek and E-V13 carrier. Evidence derived indirectly which means that there is a probability of error. With every new discovery (genetic, archeological, linguistic etc.) we are closer to conclusion that Macedonians were North Western Greek tribe.


that area is full of R1a, which follows the road that Dorians took even to Italy,
E-V13 in Makedonia has the low %
G2a has enough, 
Makedonia was not favorite with Kadmeians.
it is more complex,
the I1 is possible, since I1 and PC**** have a connection

----------


## Aberdeen

> There is hard evidence of Macedonians being non Greeks. Greek historians wrote that they (Macedonians) spoke a language that Greeks did not understand. Had it been a dialect of Greek there would have been some words Greeks understood.
> I know Greeks like that Macedonian language to be a dialect of Greek but it is not.
> You want to have fun kidding yourself, do it, but the issue is never going to go away.
> A great majority of scholars including a Greek historian from Columbia university.
> It really makes no sense discussing further this topic.
> You keep your views, I am not changing mines,.


The Athenians were snobs who pretended not to understand provincial dialects of Greek. That means nothing. Everywhere Alexander's armies went, they left inscriptions in Greek.

----------


## arvistro

All known written texts in the GDL (Grand Duchy of Lithuania) was in Ruthenian. But Gediminas and his clan were native Lithuanians. So written language alone does not prove things. 

Having said that he might as well be Greek.

----------


## Dianatomia

> All known written texts in the GDL (Grand Duchy of Lithuania) was in Ruthenian. But Gediminas and his clan were native Lithuanians. So written language alone does not prove things. 
> 
> Having said that he might as well be Greek.


Quite a misplaced comparison. In this case we do have an account of a Lithuanian language (among others). In the case of the Macedonians, we don't have anything non-Greek. Not even their (place) names, gods, calendar etc. 

Hence I said to those who doubt that I am open to evidence. Given what the Macedonians have left behind, the burden is on upon those who doubt the Greekness of the Macedonians to provide the evidence.

----------


## Garrick

> that area is full of R1a, which follows the road that Dorians took even to Italy,
> E-V13 in Makedonia has the low %
> G2a has enough, 
> Makedonia was not favorite with Kadmeians.
> it is more complex,
> the I1 is possible, since I1 and PC**** have a connection


There was one study involving and Greek researchers.

----------


## Garrick

> Quite a misplaced comparison. In this case we do have an account of a Lithuanian language (among others). In the case of the Macedonians, we don't have anything non-Greek. Not even their (place) names, gods, calendar etc. 
> 
> Hence I said to those who doubt that I am open to evidence. Given what the Macedonians have left behind, the burden is on upon those who doubt the Greekness of the Macedonians to provide the evidence.


This is the essence.

Ancient Macedonian is North Western Greek dialect according to evidence.

...
Attempts at inventing fairy tales, manipulations, constructions can be used only for fun and jokes, for serious discussion are needed facts.

----------


## noUseForAname

[QUOTE=Yetos;439777]well works to stabilize the statics of tomp continue.

2 more interesting photos



until now they are at 3rth chamber, they see the gate, but possibly is a 4rth chamber.




this is what we call Greek foot, again we find it for another time, thousands to myriads times to who knows how many?
the soes are the typical κοθορνος/κοθορνοι cothurnus, in red and yellow,


What a great findings, It would be really interested to see about their DNA, I think Alexander was a Native and not either R1b Celts, R1a Slavs, and J2 Middle East.
This also correlates with a shape of a foot and toes if this is true please see below
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ0_x-6TK98

Therefore i think (just my opinion) that *Alexanders DNA is E-V13*

----------


## Sile

[QUOTE=noUseForAname;440262]


> well works to stabilize the statics of tomp continue.
> 
> 2 more interesting photos
> 
> 
> 
> until now they are at 3rth chamber, they see the gate, but possibly is a 4rth chamber.
> 
> 
> ...


IMO, *Alexanders DNA is J2b2,* its the only marker among the ancient macedonians and ancient thracian ( only true thracians where in modern Bulgaria ), that can be classified as this south-east balkan marker

----------


## Maleth

> Therefore i think (just my opinion) that *Alexanders DNA is E-V13 
> 
> *---------------------------------IMO, *Alexanders DNA is J2b2*


As far as I know, people were already mixed enough in those times to make any guess work difficult. We would only know when the tests are carried out......if they will ever be.

----------


## Yetos

there no significsnt discoveries yet, since archaologists are searching the soil that was extracted from the tomp.
and engineers help the static stability of the building

except this



a typical door of 14 cm marble whichis typical in most ancient tomps,


the photo is how the engineers stabilize the domus and secure the static force balance.

----------


## Yetos

ok

it is sunday I do not know why today,

the mosaic of the chamber behind Klodones (caryatides)




the question?

who is driving Hermes to underground world?

the god, the chariot, the dead,

THE god, is Hermes, the ψυχοπομπος, the one who carries the souls to the underground world,
we can see his wing sandals, and his κηρυκειο, the known hermes scepter,





the dead, he wears a δαφνινο στεφανι, laurel wreath,




dimensions 3 χ 4,5 m
the mosaic is destroyed in centre in a shape of circle with 0.80 m diameter, but all ψηφια, elements are gather by the soil,

as you the picture is surrounded by what architects call ionian wave maiander, and outside by mainders and a kind of maiander which first time I see,




so any guesses for whom the Ehrmes is leading to underworld to be judged?

----------


## Yetos

the aftermath

all day most archaiologists and proffesors and historians post and answer in blogs, news media, facebook, twitter etc,

the aftermath is that with mosaic some question are answered,

It is a tomp
It is Makedonian but after the Phillip,
It has elements of South Greece and Thracian
The owner was very rich, very very rich,

about the mosaic,

most say that is the God Hermes and god Pluto Πλουτων
simmialr is found in Αιγες Aiges the Makedonian capital



so the architect knew that, before create it in Amphipolis,

The God Hermes, wears the Makedonian hat Σκιαδιον, the know berret, 

while the difference is that Hermes has wings in feet in one and wings in head in the other

----------


## Nikas

> the aftermath
> 
> all day most archaiologists and proffesors and historians post and answer in blogs, news media, facebook, twitter etc,
> 
> the aftermath is that with mosaic some question are answered,
> 
> It is a tomp
> It is Makedonian but after the Phillip,
> It has elements of South Greece and Thracian
> ...


Simply amazing! You are right, there are rampant rumours coming fast and furious now, the latest credible ones I have seen are directly linking this to Alexander the Great (not his resting place) and there are suggestions that this Hades in the mosaic bears the likeness of Philip II!

With so much going on with Amphipolis, the news of the further confirmation of Tomb II holding the remains of Philip II and his funerary mask has almost been overlooked!

http://news.discovery.com/history/ar...und-141009.htm

----------


## Yetos

Well it certain that tomp was looted,
and not only,
but also destroyed, and sealed,
personally I believe by Christians at 5-6th century, I repeat personally,

Finally we have a skeleton,










at a secret katakombe under the floor of the last chamber,

mysteries a lot,

the case of no existance of 'sarkophagos' leads to 5 solutions

1. Alexander, they sink him in honey to preserve him until the burial
2. Hephastion, he was mummified so to burried in homeland
3, Olympias, she was not burned by Kassandros
4, the sarkophagos is stolen and the skeleton is from a tomp looter
5, the dead was not a Makedonian, but a local Thracian, or an Athenean colonist, or Brasidas of Sparta,
the most possible is a Thraco-Makedonian, Alexander follower, and a very rich man,

any way the skeleton is gathered and is send for a CSI style investigation first

----------


## Yetos

http://news247.gr/eidiseis/psixagogi...6c07-393603141


the link is in GREEK language,

the skeletons which believed that were 1 person seems to be 5 person,

1 woman age around 60
1 man around 35
1 man around 45
1 man that was burned and his bones were burried there,
1 baby to child 

by the morphologic characteristic we see 
height of woman 1,57 m
height of men 163-168
the possibility of relativity is the next that will be searched


for further search 300 skeletons from ancient Necropolis and surounding area are about to be searched, by a new license given by archaiological authorities,

that will give us a clear view of genetical data of the area i suppose.

----------


## LeBrok

Thanks for the update Yetos.

----------


## Maciamo

> this will only reveal the Y DNA of the Macedonian elite at that time
> 
> anyway my guess : 
> Mycenians : R1b-L23
> Dorians : R1b-L11
> Pelask : E1b and J2b


I agree with that. I originally thought that the Mycenaeans would be a blend of R1b-L23 and R1a-Z282. But I am having doubts about R1a, which has surely been brought to the southern Balkans by the Goths. I would need more data on Greek R1a to decide if the Mycenaeans brought other subclades than the Goths.

The Pelasgians included Mesolithic E-V13 and J2b, but also Neolithic G2a (and perhaps J1 and T1a).

----------


## Devils Advocate

updates on this?

----------


## Yetos

OK 

the search will be done by 200 students from Greece and rest EU (exchange and special programs) that are in a pre and after Dr degree,

the search will be under supervision of 
Triantafyllou AUTH (thessaloniki) osteoarchaiology (bone archaiology)
Papageorgopoulou DUTh (Thrace) Anthropology

contains 300 skeleton bones 
1 scan for pathological marks
2 palaiogenetic analysis (search for ancient DNA) and possible relativity
3 AMS timing
4 Strondium analysis
5 Carbon and Azoton (C, N) analysis
6 rest istological and microspocic methods of analysis

seems in 2-3 years we might have a view of the genetical data of the area through ancient times

----------


## Maleth

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...nt&sf7138285=1

----------


## Yetos

the news about that huge monument started again a war among archaiologists, 
AUTh laboratories using C-14 found that the coals of the tomb are from 300 BC +-30 and the birth of the wood from 360 BC 
the compare with the rest Pella and Pydna royal mosaics place it at 330 to 275 BC same time with Carbon 14 method,
most possible the times of Aristonoos bodyguard of Alexander ruled over Amphipolis and the battle agaist Kassandros forces around 320 BC.
cause it is impossible to be build at the times of Kassandros to honor Alexanders family,
but it is possible to put inside and burry with soil the rest of Alexanders family just to settle once and for all with that.

The lion of Amphipolis has his tongue cut, so never to reaveal the secret of the tomp,
for that Antipatros o Σιδωνιος wrote "Ειπέ Λέον, φθιμένοιο τίνος τάφον αμφιβέβηκας , βουφάγε; Τις τασ άξιος ην αρετάς 
meaning 'Tell us lion, you that eat the bulls whose tomp you guard, who is so worth with your virtues?

Antonio Corso from August 2015 enter the team of searches, recognised the face as leader of the caravan of the dead fortune (guns etc) 
the march before the burial ceremony, the first who lead the horses was always a respected person, after that ceremony, Hermes took lead the charriot to brimng soul to underworld,
*the snake is trade mark of Zeus and OLYMPIAS*






After the C-14 results
the main argue among archaiologists are
was it for 1 person or for many?
could Olympias via Aristonnos cheat us and burry Alexander in the tomp who probably was for Ηφαιστιων?

about the exostance of the snake,
Olympias was a high Priest an Ιερεια, at the ceremonies Woman carried baskets with snakes at their heads,
and many times spoke to Zeus via the snakes,
we can see that at everything that concern Alexander,

So notice the warrior, the horse, and the snake/tree image,
now lets look somewhere else


at the mosaic at the side of Alexander we also that snake/tree image




look at the right leg, again the oak and the snake




the ultimate value gold coin, does not have the eagle, but the snake

----------


## Goga

@ *Yetos*

What is your idea about the snake? I don't understand the meaning of your post.

----------


## Yetos

> @ *Yetos*
> 
> What is your idea about the snake? I don't understand the meaning of your post.


 it is not my idea,
the combo snake/tree has been found at the tomb, 
it works like a LOGO,
it is connecting the tomp with certain religion, or with Olympias or Alexander himshelf,

from the work of Antonio Corso



the excibit A has been found at the tomp,


Πλουταρχος, (Plutarch) describes this connection among Olympias and snakes

generally the combo woman/snake is far ancient, almost mythology,
Cretan figures millenium before Alexander show women with snakes,
Hercules killed the 2 snakes that Hera send against him,
Olympias was high priestess of a dogma that allow women carry snakes at basket above their head,
BUT THE COMBO SNAKE/TREE is Rather mark of Olympias and Alexandros

Snakes and oracles,
Snakes are connected with 4 Gods,
Zeus Apollo and hermes and hera
with Hermes are connected as medicines, (Odyssey)
With Hera as revenge/punishment from Gods
But with Zeus and Apollon have the ability of telling the future or bring justice,
they have been found both at Dodona and Delphoi,
Python was asnake dragon, Pythia was the priestess of Apollo,

ALL DIVINERS PROPHETS CLAIRVOYANTS HAD AS MARK A SNAKE AND A CAULDRON

----------


## Milan

> it is not my idea,
> the combo snake/tree has been found at the tomb, 
> it works like a LOGO,
> it is connecting the tomp with certain religion, or with Olympias or Alexander himshelf,
> 
> from the work of Antonio Corso
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Let me try to collaborate on this
Olympias was devoted for the Orphic mysteries as can be seen among the Macedonians and the various mosaics found in the tombs and other sites,the cult of Dionysus/Bacchus/Zagreus/Sabazios among other names.
When we talk about serpents i can found this "Life of Alexander"
Once, moreover, a serpent was found lying by Olympias as she slept which more than anything else, it is said, abated Philip's passion for her; and whether he feared her as an enchantress, or thought she had commerce with some god, and so looked on himself as excluded, he was ever after less fond of her conversation.
Others say, that the women of this country having always been extremely addicted to the enthusiastic Orphic rites, and the wild worship of Bacchus [...], imitated in many things the practices of the Edonian and Thracian women about Mount Haemus.


The picture found in Vergina is the reflection of the same religion the "Orphic mysteries" or the similar "Eleusian mysteries" the very cult was based on "abduction of Persephoneia by Hades" this picture show the same thing and it is intrpreted that way.When Hades kiddnaped the daughter of Demeter(mother goddess) she caused widespread drought for sorrow about her daughter,this are very old agrarian cults from the Balkans.
Abduction of Persephone


The "snake tree" as well the horseman you have posted here,the deity is found troughout the ancient world,it is known as the "Thracian horseman" and is most probably Sabazious or Dionysus.
Here you have the same "Thracian horseman"


Philipi Macedonia from Roman era

For example this cults are to be found in medieval times,presumably interpreted in Slavic mythology as Perun is defeating Veles,but this is very questionable,from Croatia

Madara rider from early Bulgaria;

Among many other such examples,sometimes he is potrayed as hunting wild boars,slaying a beast etc his cult later will blent with St.George slaying the dragon cause it will be hard for the Christians to wipe out such important cult from previous times.

In my opinion the serpent maybe represent a chtonic god,note that St.George is celebrated with coming of spring,slaying the dragon you liberate the spring therefore Persephone from the underworld rebirth every year,Orphics also revered Persephone (who annually descended into Hades for a season and then returned) and Dionysus or Bacchus (who also descended into Hades and returned). Orpheus was said to have invented the Mysteries of Dionysus.Persephone is the first mother of Dionysus,Zemele is her second he is reincarnation himself.
South-Slavs have same deity Perunika/Perperusha/Perperuna the consort of Perun,in Bulgaria are to be found inscriptions with epithet "Perkon" on the horseman, all the rituals are remembered by people from pagan times and can be observed very well among folklore traditions in the Balkans.

For example about dawn goddess;the abduction and imprisonment of the dawn goddess, and her liberation by a heroic god slaying the dragon who imprisons her, is a central myth of Indo-European religion, reflected in numerous traditions. Most notably, it is the central myth of the Rigveda, a collection of hymns surrounding the Soma rituals dedicated to Indra in the new year celebrations of the early Indo-Aryans.

The Orphic mysteries however are Thracian in origin.
The similar Eleusian mysteries the mysteries represented the myth of the abduction of Persephone from her mother Demeter by the king of the underworld Hades, in a cycle with three phases, the "descent" (loss), the "search" and the "ascent", with the main theme the "ascent" of Persephone and the reunion with her mother. It was a major festival during the Hellenic era, and later spread to Rome. The name of the town, Eleusís, seems to be Pre-Greek and it is probably a counterpart with Elysium and the goddess Eileithyia.

That the Dionysic cult was widespread among Macedonians show as well the House of Dionysus found in the Macedonian city of Dion in Pieria,you can see also the "flower of life"
in the middle which i also have as my avatar but we used it as sun symbol.


I hope however that with the oracle Perperikon found in Bulgaria believed to be the temple of Dionysus,we can know more things about this cult.

----------


## Goga

> it is not my idea,
> the combo snake/tree has been found at the tomb, 
> it works like a LOGO,
> it is connecting the tomp with certain religion, or with Olympias or Alexander himshelf,
> 
> from the work of Antonio Corso
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Interesting. I don't want go off topic, but snake is also part of my Iranic religion.







http://www.personal.ceu.hu/students/...t/Mararesh.htm

----------


## Maleth

no mention on y and mt dna?  :Sad:

----------


## Yetos

> no mention on y and mt dna?


no
as i post at *#85* it will take 2-3 years.

----------


## Yetos

> Let me try to collaborate on this
> Olympias was devoted for the Orphic mysteries as can be seen among the Macedonians and the various mosaics found in the tombs and other sites,the cult of Dionysus/Bacchus/Zagreus/Sabazios among other names.
> When we talk about serpents i can found this "Life of Alexander"
> Once, moreover, a serpent was found lying by Olympias as she slept which more than anything else, it is said, abated Philip's passion for her; and whether he feared her as an enchantress, or thought she had commerce with some god, and so looked on himself as excluded, he was ever after less fond of her conversation.
> Others say, that the women of this country having always been extremely addicted to the enthusiastic Orphic rites, and the wild worship of Bacchus [...], imitated in many things the practices of the Edonian and Thracian women about Mount Haemus.
> 
> 
> The picture found in Vergina is the reflection of the same religion the "Orphic mysteries" or the similar "Eleusian mysteries" the very cult was based on "abduction of Persephoneia by Hades" this picture show the same thing and it is intrpreted that way.When Hades kiddnaped the daughter of Demeter(mother goddess) she caused widespread drought for sorrow about her daughter,this are very old agrarian cults from the Balkans.
> Abduction of Persephone
> ...


the killing of Python or Dragon or big Snake by a horse man is another story,
*it has passed to christianity as Saint George 
don't mix with that

*the snake of Alexander is connected with this

Crete 



god Γλυκων




Apollon and his tripod 

etc

the only difference among Apollo and Zeus snake is the tree,
a*t Iliad Homer places 'prophet' Καλχας Kalhas to predict the future watching the moves of the snake upon the tree,*
Olympias was a priest of Donona Zeus, an Oracle Zeus,
Olympias was also priestess of Καβειρες Kabeirs (Samothrace)
Olympias is also a follower of Orpheus 
so she posses the ability to speak, feed, live with snakes, and she can read the answers by watching their moves
watch
*2 Snakes were the guiders to Alexander in his quest to reach Ammon's Oracle
*
*EVEN TODAY THE MONKS AT MANY PLACES PREFER A SNAKE TO LIVE WITH, THAN A CAT.
*the late Saint of mt Athos, Paisios lived with a Snake to eat the mouses and rats, than a cat
and many times spoke with it as christians say.

*the snake of St George has nothing to do with this snake it is a Dragon/snake*

as also the snake of Φαρμακεια (pharmacy) of Asclepius and Hermes αre away from that snake/tree combo



neither Hera's snake has to do with,

that is the snake of a chthonic Zeus,


to understand more 
*Monotheistic Bible*
the snake seduce woman to eat the fruit (snake speaks)!!!!! Genesis
*Greek polytheism*
The snake Λαδωνας is put by Hera to protect the tree fruits from human women but guarded by hesperides nymphs)!!!
but either hercules kill the snake, either the Nymphs put the snake to sleep, so Hercules can take the fruits
*same image, tree snake man woman, different approach

Saint George approach of snake has nothing to do with Zeus snakes,
Although many consider St george as the replace of Apollo


*PS
Yet since you seem to search about Thracians, there is something interesting, the Rila area

----------


## Yetos

> Interesting. I don't want go off topic, but snake is also part of my Iranic religion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.personal.ceu.hu/students/...t/Mararesh.htm


I do not know which part of Iranic religion, and how they are connected with ZoroAstrian
but snakes in religion I doupt that has to do with Semitic or IE primary religions,
yet we see it at a zone from Mediterenean to India, 
I am not familiar so much with Iranian or Indian Polytheism so I can not tell something
can you describe what they mean?

----------


## Milan

> the killing of Python or Dragon or big Snake by a horse man is another story,
> *it has passed to christianity as Saint George 
> don't mix with that
> 
> *the snake of Alexander is connected with this
> 
> Crete 
> 
> 
> ...


I don't really understand but you show a Minoan goddess in the picture,the figurines were found only in house sanctuaries, where the figurine appears as "the goddess of the household", and they are probably (according to Burkert) related with the Paleolithic tradition regarding women and domesticity,likewise the oracle at Dodona numerous authors are saying that is being build by "Pelasgians" and one of the earliest oracles in Greece,predates the Greek settlement,as far i know earth goddess Dione is worshiped there,kind of Oceanid nymphs,water goddess and Dodonean Zeus,it is called Dodonean Zeus cause it is worshiped for different purpose than Zeus in mainland Greece, if you find Zeus that mean a "sky father" just like Juppiter or others but there is debate what was the original name of this Indo-European god,according to traditions Dione was mother of Venus and Aphrodite at least in Greco-Roman mythologies,but according to Orphic worshipers she was daughter of Gaia and Uranus,search for the ritual Dodola you can see connection with this deity.
Don't know if you want to make out of the Macedonians kind of proto-type people,but the religions are shared by different populations,they are not connected to one specific people,especialy not among Indo-Europeans.

As for Glycon i can find this 
At least initially, the cult did not worship an abstraction or a spirit of a snake but an actual, physical serpent that was said to embody the god. According to the cult's mythology, the snake appeared after Alexander had foretold the coming of a new incarnation of Asclepius. When the people gathered in the marketplace of Abonutichus at noon, when the incarnation was supposed to occur, Alexander produced a goose egg and sliced it open, revealing the god within. Within a week it grew to the size of a man with the features of a man on its face, including long blond hair. At this point the figure resembling this description was apparently a puppet that appeared in the temple. In some references Glycon was a trained snake with a puppet head.


As with previous Macedonian snake cults, the focus of worship at the temple was on fertility. Barren women would bring offerings to Glycon in hopes of becoming pregnant. According to Lucian, Alexander had less magical ways of causing pregnancy among his flock as well. The god was also believed to offer protection against the plague.

It is kind of a continuation of cult of Asclepius,also the same healer god Darrhon was worshiped by the Derrones,Macedonians and Paeonians.

----------


## Goga

> I do not know which part of Iranic religion, and how they are connected with ZoroAstrian
> but snakes in religion I doupt that has to do with Semitic or IE primary religions,
> yet we see it at a zone from Mediterenean to India, 
> I am not familiar so much with Iranian or Indian Polytheism so I can not tell something
> can you describe what they mean?


My Iranic religion, the Yezidism is connected with the Zoroastrianism through older Iranic religion. The Mithraism. The Yezidism and Zoroastrianism share the same roots. Both are derived from the Mithraism.

Ancient Iranic GOD Zurvan encircled by the snakes.





To my understanding the snake in the ancient Iranic mythology and therefore in my modern living Iranic religion has something to do with the 'cosmos'.
According to my folks we are the 'chosen people' of Tawuse Melek. Tawûsê Melek (the Peacock Angel) created the cosmos from the 'Cosmic egg' (think of the Bing Bang theory)...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melek_Taus



The Cosmic Egg / Big Bang




http://www.space.com/25126-big-bang-theory.html

----------


## Angela

There are whole books written on the subject of serpent or snake mythology around the world, including the Near East. In that area of the world it was for the Canaanites a symbol of fertility, sexuality, desire. It is often also associated with secret knowledge. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpent_%28symbolism%29

Often, the serpent is depicted with a sacred tree or staff.

Obviously, it's part of Jewish/Christian iconography as the serpent who tempted Eve in the Garden of Eden, leading to Marian iconography of Mary crushing the serpent under her feet.

http://rabbithole2.com/presentation/...ve_serpent.jpg

https://maryvictrix.files.wordpress....on_ca_1628.jpg

----------


## Yetos

> I don't really understand but you show a Minoan goddess in the picture,the figurines were found only in house sanctuaries, where the figurine appears as "the goddess of the household", and they are probably (according to Burkert) related with the Paleolithic tradition regarding women and domesticity,likewise the oracle at Dodona numerous authors are saying that is being build by "Pelasgians" and one of the earliest oracles in Greece,predates the Greek settlement,as far i know earth goddess Dione is worshiped there,kind of Oceanid nymphs,water goddess and Dodonean Zeus,it is called Dodonean Zeus cause it is worshiped for different purpose than Zeus in mainland Greece, if you find Zeus that mean a "sky father" just like Juppiter or others but there is debate what was the original name of this Indo-European god,according to traditions Dione was mother of Venus and Aphrodite at least in Greco-Roman mythologies,but according to Orphic worshipers she was daughter of Gaia and Uranus,search for the ritual Dodola you can see connection with this deity.
> Don't know if you want to make out of the Macedonians kind of proto-type people,but the religions are shared by different populations,they are not connected to one specific people,especialy not among Indo-Europeans.
> 
> As for Glycon i can find this 
> At least initially, the cult did not worship an abstraction or a spirit of a snake but an actual, physical serpent that was said to embody the god. According to the cult's mythology, the snake appeared after Alexander had foretold the coming of a new incarnation of Asclepius. When the people gathered in the marketplace of Abonutichus at noon, when the incarnation was supposed to occur, Alexander produced a goose egg and sliced it open, revealing the god within. Within a week it grew to the size of a man with the features of a man on its face, including long blond hair. At this point the figure resembling this description was apparently a puppet that appeared in the temple. In some references Glycon was a trained snake with a puppet head.
> 
> 
> As with previous Macedonian snake cults, the focus of worship at the temple was on fertility. Barren women would bring offerings to Glycon in hopes of becoming pregnant. According to Lucian, Alexander had less magical ways of causing pregnancy among his flock as well. The god was also believed to offer protection against the plague.
> 
> It is kind of a continuation of cult of Asclepius,also the same healer god Darrhon was worshiped by the Derrones,Macedonians and Paeonians.


I really do not understand were you are guiding me,
I just said that snake culture/religion is not one,
and the mark tree/snake that is mentioned even from Homer and 'prophet Kalhas' is clearly a Dodona Zeus mark,
and Zeus was not a Pelasgian deity, but a Greek deity, although even today many argue about Driopes or IE origin of Oracle

Apollo had a snake as mark but a tripod, and if you search all 'prophets' had a snake as a mark
Hera also had power upon snakes but as 'angel of Death'
Asclepius and Hermes as medicins

----------


## Yetos

> There are whole books written on the subject of serpent or snake mythology around the world, including the Near East. In that area of the world it was for the Canaanites a symbol of fertility, sexuality, desire. It is often also associated with secret knowledge. 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serpent_%28symbolism%29
> 
> Often, the serpent is depicted with a sacred tree or staff.
> 
> Obviously, it's part of Jewish/Christian iconography as the serpent who tempted Eve in the Garden of Evil, leading to Marian iconography of Mary crushing the serpent under her feet.
> 
> http://rabbithole2.com/presentation/...ve_serpent.jpg
> 
> https://maryvictrix.files.wordpress....on_ca_1628.jpg


and that is the other icon image of the snake

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hesper...Madrid)_11.jpg

----------


## Yetos

> I don't really understand but you show a Minoan goddess in the picture,the figurines were found only in house sanctuaries, where the figurine appears as "the goddess of the household", and they are probably (according to Burkert) related with the Paleolithic tradition regarding women and domesticity,likewise the oracle at Dodona numerous authors are saying that is being build by "Pelasgians" and one of the earliest oracles in Greece,predates the Greek settlement,as far i know earth goddess Dione is worshiped there,kind of Oceanid nymphs,water goddess and Dodonean Zeus,it is called Dodonean Zeus cause it is worshiped for different purpose than Zeus in mainland Greece, if you find Zeus that mean a "sky father" just like Juppiter or others but there is debate what was the original name of this Indo-European god,according to traditions Dione was mother of Venus and Aphrodite at least in Greco-Roman mythologies,but according to Orphic worshipers she was daughter of Gaia and Uranus,search for the ritual Dodola you can see connection with this deity.
> Don't know if you want to make out of the Macedonians kind of proto-type people,but the religions are shared by different populations,they are not connected to one specific people,especialy not among Indo-Europeans.
> 
> As for Glycon i can find this 
> At least initially, the cult did not worship an abstraction or a spirit of a snake but an actual, physical serpent that was said to embody the god. According to the cult's mythology, the snake appeared after Alexander had foretold the coming of a new incarnation of Asclepius. When the people gathered in the marketplace of Abonutichus at noon, when the incarnation was supposed to occur, Alexander produced a goose egg and sliced it open, revealing the god within. Within a week it grew to the size of a man with the features of a man on its face, including long blond hair. At this point the figure resembling this description was apparently a puppet that appeared in the temple. In some references Glycon was a trained snake with a puppet head.
> 
> 
> As with previous Macedonian snake cults, the focus of worship at the temple was on fertility. Barren women would bring offerings to Glycon in hopes of becoming pregnant. According to Lucian, Alexander had less magical ways of causing pregnancy among his flock as well. The god was also believed to offer protection against the plague.
> 
> It is kind of a continuation of cult of Asclepius,also the same healer god Darrhon was worshiped by the Derrones,Macedonians and Paeonians.


That is a Summerian symbol




The cretan figurine is a Minoan Priest,
now how many snakes live in the North of Europe? or at least North of Istros?
could snake religion be combined with early IE? guess not,

----------


## Milan

> I really do not understand were you are guiding me,
> I just said that snake culture/religion is not one,
> and the mark tree/snake that is mentioned even from Homer and 'prophet Kalhas' is clearly a Dodona Zeus mark,
> and Zeus was not a Pelasgian deity, but a Greek deity, although even today many argue about Driopes or IE origin of Oracle
> 
> Apollo had a snake as mark but a tripod, and if you search all 'prophets' had a snake as a mark
> Hera also had power upon snakes but as 'angel of Death'
> Asclepius and Hermes as medicins


Yetos with all due respect don't know how much we understand eachother here is quote from Strabo for example;
This oracle, according to Ephorus, was founded by the Pelasgi. And the Pelasgi are called the earliest of all peoples who have held dominion in Greece.

The earliest mention of Dodona is in Homer, and only Zeus is mentioned in this account. In the Iliad (circa 750 BCE),Achilles prays to "High Zeus, Lord of Dodona, Pelasgian, living afar off, brooding over wintry Dodona"

It is Greek or it become Greek,however the language was spreading i will not judge.
Now when you talk about Zeus as Greek and not Pelasgian,you are right but to tell you that all Indo-Europeans had their "Zeus" in their respective languages.Latin writers reffer to him as Jupiter,we all have a name for "sky father" in our languages.

----------


## Yetos

@ Milan

don't mix Πελειαδες (pιgon) of Herodotus, or the Πελιες (elders-ΓΡΑΙΟΙ (Greeks)) of Strabo with Pelasgians,

Dodona was inhabited by Σελλοι ορ Ελλοι 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selloi

simply before IE settle there, it might exist a previous a female deity, which Herodotus connect it with Egypt and Libya (3 pigons symbol)

----------


## Milan

I am familiar with that Yetos,Strabo say Pelasgians,also in the Illiad Zeus is called Pelasgian at Dodona,
Herodotus based his story that the priestess were Egyptians or Libyan cause the Peleiades(doves) at the oracle is said to be black,the oracle is connected with Peleiades(doves) in the oak tree that speak-tell prophecy,not much relevant Pelasgian or not after all.
Enough for Dodona.
Looking forward something about Macedonians.

----------


## Yetos

@ milan

Herodotus names Πελειαδα ανδ μελαινα (female pigeon and black) not Pelasgians
Strabo names Πελιες (means old) compare mount Pelion, father of Achilles Πηλεας

WHEN ALEXANDER SAY Δεδιωκτε τοις Πελασοι does not say throw away the Pelasgians, but the counsil of elders

----------


## Yetos

I Do not know why,
But I hope that will not be like Agamemnon's mummy,

They found Skeleton Bones in the tomb,

It was supposed they moved it to Manchester UK to make face reconstruction
and from there to possible DNA analysis.

Yet 2 years after and nothing,

It would very interesting to have at least a face reconstruction.

----------


## blevins13

> you are so provocative, but you know nothing,
> 
> *THE GREEK ALPHABET IS ΚΥΜΗ CYME ALPHABET,*
> THE ALPHABET THAT YOU USE, THE LATIN ALPHABET IS AN INVASION OF GREEKS,
> SIMPLY LATER GREEKS ADOPT THE PHOENICIAN.
> 
> *Its name refers to the peninsula of Cyme in Euboea. The colony was also the entry point in the Italian peninsula for the Euboean alphabet, the local variant of the Greek alphabet used by its colonists, a variant of which was adapted and modified by the Etruscans and then by the Romans and became the Latin alphabet still used worldwide today.*
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cumae
> ...


This language argument is stupid, according to this whoever adopted Greek alphabet is Greek...... look at this Ilirian tribe that has fully adopted Greek alphabet for example https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daorson , are they Greek ...??? If they are Greek also Macedonian are Greek...lets wait for the Dna proof hopefully that will settle this. I wondering why there is no DNA coming from this tombs.....why Greek are not showing us any DNA from Macedonian times????!!!! This smells    


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## LAB

> This language argument is stupid, according to this whoever adopted Greek alphabet is Greek...... look at this Ilirian tribe that has fully adopted Greek alphabet for example https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daorson , are they Greek ...??? If they are Greek also Macedonian are Greek...lets wait for the Dna proof hopefully that will settle this. I wondering why there is no DNA coming from this tombs.....why Greek are not showing us any DNA from Macedonian times????!!!! This smells    
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum



Illyrians also used the Hellenic alphabet
http://prntscr.com/j2ggf1 

The Latin alphabet is based on that of the Etruscans, which was the same with that of Lemnos.

Etruscans migrated to Italy from Corinth, and 100 years ago 85% of the population of Corinth were Albanian speakers, which is the only language that can explain the Etruscan inscriptions, and also can explain the words for the letters of the Hellenic alphabet that modern Greeks can't,
proving that Albanian is the original language of Pelloponesus and Attika that later was replace by Byzantine church.

_Map of Arvanite settlements in modern Greece, end of 19th beginning of 20th century._

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## Johane Derite

> Illyrians also used the Hellenic alphabet
> http://prntscr.com/j2ggf1 
> 
> The Latin alphabet is based on that of the Etruscans, which was the same with that of Lemnos.
> 
> Etruscans migrated to Italy from Corinth, and 100 years ago 85% of the population of Corinth were Albanian speakers, which is the only language that can explain the Etruscan inscriptions, and also can explain the words for the letters of the Hellenic alphabet that modern Greeks can't,
> proving that Albanian is the original language of Pelloponesus and Attika that later was replace by Byzantine church.
> 
> _Map of Arvanite settlements in modern Greece, end of 19th beginning of 20th century._



Even if every single word of what you say is true, you cannot expect anyone to believe you with such a different established consensus. If you have news of some catastrophe that will come, but you find yourself in 
the middle of china, it doesn't matter how true what you say is since nobody will understand the content of what you say. 

Now, if what you say is true, you CANT expect people to believe you with so LITTLE evidence. 

This is the established consensus that you have to argue against:





The consensus now is that the classical Latin alphabet is derived from a form of the Cumaean Greek version of the Greek alphabet, used by the Etruscans. 

If you believe your theory to be true, better to first develop your theory on your own until they can make sense to the hundreds of academics that believe something else. If you want to convince people
you have to speak a shared language right? If you dont want to convince people why post at all? Make up your mind what you want first, then start posting

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## blevins13

> Even if every single word of what you say is true, you cannot expect anyone to believe you with such a different established consensus. If you have news of some catastrophe that will come, but you find yourself in 
> the middle of china, it doesn't matter how true what you say is since nobody will understand the content of what you say. 
> 
> Now, if what you say is true, you CANT expect people to believe you with so LITTLE evidence. 
> 
> This is the established consensus that you have to argue against:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Very interesting chart


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## Angela

This is a thread on whether the remains in this tomb could be those of Alexander. It is not a thread on linguistics, much less any totally unsupported claim that the Etruscans came from Corinth. 

Please take the discussion to an appropriate area of the site.

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## LAB

> This is a thread on whether the remains in this tomb could be those of Alexander. It is not a thread on linguistics, much less any totally unsupported claim that the Etruscans came from Corinth. 
> 
> Please take the discussion to an appropriate area of the site.



My bad Angela, 

Claims that Greeks invented Latin alphabet are also out of this topic though,

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