# Population Genetics > Y-DNA Haplogroups > T >  A predicted male first cousin, similar T yDNA, no shared X

## Thorbjorn

Someone, male, I don't know comes up at the top of my DNA Relatives list at 23andMe. He is predicted to be a first cousin. My Y haplogroup is T1a1a. His is listed as L-131, which I think is T1a2. We don't share any X, which I believe means we are paternal relatives. _The Shared cM Project 3.0 tool v4_ predicts any of these relationships:

Great-GrandparentGreat-Aunt / Uncle Half Aunt / Uncle1CHalf Niece / NephewGreat-Niece / NephewGreat-GrandchildGreat-Great-GrandparentGreat-Great-Aunt / UncleGreat-Great-Niece / NephewHalf Great-Aunt / UncleHalf Great-Niece / Nephew1C1RHalf 1C
I think it's pretty safe to rule out most of them except 
1CHalf Niece / Nephew1C1RHalf 1CGreat-Niece / Nephew
My DNA test was with the V4 chip. So is it possible that we share a close and/or direct male ancestor if our T subclades are different? Or if my test were done with the V5 chip might it show I'm actually T1a2? Is that possible? I'm still learning about all this, all the more complicated as I find more DNA relatives, the results of the tests become more accurate, and many people include little to no information on their profiles.

----------


## Salento

In this case the Y T Haplogroup is not the cause of a 1st Cousin, or any other close relation.
T1a1a (L208) and T1a2 (L131) are on a different branch of Tree (Ancient Relation).




https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...-M184_tree.png

----------


## Thorbjorn

I thought it might be coincidence.

----------


## Sile

> Someone, male, I don't know comes up at the top of my DNA Relatives list at 23andMe. He is predicted to be a first cousin. My Y haplogroup is T1a1a. His is listed as L-131, which I think is T1a2. We don't share any X, which I believe means we are paternal relatives. _The Shared cM Project 3.0 tool v4_ predicts any of these relationships:
> 
> Great-GrandparentGreat-Aunt / Uncle Half Aunt / Uncle1CHalf Niece / NephewGreat-Niece / NephewGreat-GrandchildGreat-Great-GrandparentGreat-Great-Aunt / UncleGreat-Great-Niece / NephewHalf Great-Aunt / UncleHalf Great-Niece / Nephew1C1RHalf 1C
> I think it's pretty safe to rule out most of them except 
> 1CHalf Niece / Nephew1C1RHalf 1CGreat-Niece / Nephew
> My DNA test was with the V4 chip. So is it possible that we share a close and/or direct male ancestor if our T subclades are different? Or if my test were done with the V5 chip might it show I'm actually T1a2? Is that possible? I'm still learning about all this, all the more complicated as I find more DNA relatives, the results of the tests become more accurate, and many people include little to no information on their profiles.


T1a1 and T1a2 split apart 15400 BP .......thats a long time ago.

----------


## Salento

> T1a1 and T1a2 split apart 15400 BP .......thats a long time ago.


The good old days! LOL
I was looking at the Tree, and between T1a1 and T1a2 there is unconfirmed “Unstable snp”.

----------


## Thorbjorn

> T1a1 and T1a2 split apart 15400 BP .......thats a long time ago.





> The good old days! LOL
> I was looking at the Tree, and between T1a1 and T1a2 there is unconfirmed “Unstable snp”.


I saw that tree picture. Pretty fascinating. Instead of focusing only on my paternal line I guess I have my maternal line to explore also to find this person.

----------


## Joey37

I have a guy on my mother's side who has the same haplogroup I have, and it's a really precise definition-R1a YP445, or R1a1a1b1a1b1d.

----------


## Thorbjorn

> I saw that tree picture. Pretty fascinating. Instead of focusing only on my paternal line I guess I have my maternal line to explore also to find this person.


I think he actually is a paternal relative. He shares 4.6% and 2.3% DNA with two people who are unquestionably in my father's family... his grandson from his fling when he was 21 or 22, and the great-granddaughter of my father's sister, both of whom are high matches with me. This is getting pretty interesting. :)

----------


## Sile

> The good old days! LOL
> I was looking at the Tree, and between T1a1 and T1a2 there is unconfirmed “Unstable snp”.


on facebook ( T haplogroup ) Gareth Henson explains this "unstable SNP.......I will try to find it for you ....................ftdna might not be correct in placing it in the tree.
.
still looking......but the unstable SNP is Z19859 ...........according to Mr. Banks from Isogg, it comprises of 2 snp from T1a2 group....L131 and L454 
I am positive for L131 , but negative for L454 .............that is my "instability" ................really do not know what Z19859 is for or is it necessary to be even in the T tree

----------


## Salento

> on facebook ( T haplogroup ) Gareth Henson explains this "unstable SNP.......I will try to find it for you ....................ftdna might not be correct in placing it in the tree.
> .
> still looking......but the unstable SNP is Z19859 ...........according to Mr. Banks from Isogg, it comprises of 2 snp from T1a2 group....L131 and L454 
> I am positive for L131 , but negative for L454 .............that is my "instability" ................really do not know what Z19859 is for or is it necessary to be even in the T tree


Thanks Sile.
For now Z19859 is located right on top of L131 (all L131 are presumed positive for Z19859).

I’m also positive for L131 and Negative for L454.

If it’s real, T1a1 and T1a2 are both positive for Z19859. I Think. Maybe?

----------


## Sile

> Thanks Sile.
> For now Z19859 is located right on top of L131 (all L131 are presumed positive for Z19859).
> 
> I’m also positive for L131 and Negative for L454.
> 
> If it’s real, T1a1 and T1a2 are both positive for Z19859. I Think. Maybe?


The Chios/ionion greeks/anatolians with T1a2 have positive L454 ...........most of the central europe T1a2 do not have L454
I will check with all who are in my ftdna zero and 1 distance matches

----------


## Salento

> The Chios/ionion greeks/anatolians with T1a2 have positive L454 ...........most of the central europe T1a2 do not have L454
> I will check with all who are in my ftdna zero and 1 distance matches


As you know, we’re both negative for L454 (L162).

----------


## Sile

ok...Mr. Henson said
Z19859 sits right in the middle of DYZ19 region which is harder to sequence. In Yfull one has a mixture of C and G reads.
haplogroup T2 ( Bhutan and armenia ) and T1a3 ( oldest origin in south Kazakhstan ) are clean of the SNP , while T1a1 and T1a2 have mixed reads for this.
So, Z19859 could be equal to M70 ..........Z19859 is over 16k years ago
.
.
Looked at mine in yFull, I am G to C on 88 reads

----------


## strongislandny21

My maternal uncle/grandfather as T-CTS6507 stemming from T-M70 (T1a1).

Any information on this subclade?

We are Ashkenazi Jewish.

----------

