# Humanities & Anthropology > History & Civilisations >  origin of dravidians?

## maltesekid

south indians the really dark ones who look dark brown infact some are even darker then some lighter sub saharan africans dravidians with jet black straight hair dark brown skin and sharp thin noses? from where is their origin? some say a australoid source some call it veddoid? but what are they seriously? what "race" are they? http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/2691087760/ they are the darkest indians and also are unfortunatly hated by the northern more "aryan" mixed north indians and pakistanis http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/2690321997/ their hair is so black and straight and their skin matches some sub saharan africans their noses sharper and skull looks non african however! http://www.paristamil.com/tamilnews/...-frankfurt.jpg amazing most interesting looking people imo http://www.flickr.com/photos/2586931...n/photostream/

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## Maciamo

The Dravidians descend mostly from the first wave of people who left East Africa (Ethiopia, Somalia) around 65,000 to 70,000 years ago. Their maternal lineages belong to haplogroup M. Their original Y-DNA would have been C or D, but these lineages were later replaced by H and L. H might have evolved directly from CR in South Asia. L probably came from the Middle East or Iran.

They have dak skin because all humans had dark skin 70,000 years ago and the climate in India does not encourage a lightening of the skin. They look different from Ethiopians because they split from them so long ago (before Europeans split from Africans !).

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## maltesekid

is there dravidian genes in europe? probaly due to gypsies

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## Maciamo

> is there dravidian genes in europe? probaly due to gypsies


Only Gypsies, AFAIK.

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## oriental

Elam was a kingdom in Iran in the north corner of the Persian Gulf opposite Sumeria. They were probably linked to the Harrapa Civilization in the Indus valley. Harrapa included Pakistan, Afghanistan, Uzbekistan and the whole of northwest India. Elam were mostly people of Hg H and L as well as the Harrapa Civilization. In all these places Hg H and L can be found. The Persian Empire under Cyrus destroyed Elam so the inhabitants would have scattered all over the the place. This destruction of Elam and the drying up of the region led to the abandonment of Harrapa whose inhabitants moved east and to south India. The Aryans conqured the Dravidians and adopted the Dravidian gods and goddesses. Hindu means the people of the river. The Aryans occupied the Indus and Ganges river area and called it Bharat.

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## oriental

Checking up on Babylon it was the Assyrians who pulled down the Elamite Kingdom that was a nuisance. The Elamite buildings were pulled down and the land salted. Kassites after the collapse of Hummarbi (Amorite) kingdom ruled Babylon. They could be also linked to Hg L and M as they came from Iran before the Indo-Aryans conquored Iran.

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## MOESAN

Maciamo, I agree only partially with this simplification - 
there is nothing absurd in what you wrote but some details hurted me:
all human beings black skinned 60000/70000 years ago? why?
chimps show black skinned and white skinned subraces -
a lot of Ethiopians end Erythreans are only light brown skinned (I know a part of the explanation is in a return from W-Asia) and a lot of subsaharian tribes too - I agree our ancestors wasn't pinky skinned as a lot of us now-
I 'll not speak about genes here but I can say at the first sight that Dravidians are not homogenous in origin - 
someones phenotypically show very close 'australoid' affiliation (Veddas), some others this very unexpected aspect of a very dark skin, a fatty europoid face and skull (face broader than skull, comon trait in old times) just a little too thick nosed and thick lipped, wavy black hairs, in some way an inclassable type, and others show the different possible mixtures between these two types and some indo-afghanid influence, + maybe some light mongoloid one, that gives way to a number of results -
the inclassable features type recall me of some Erythreans I saw on TV and that showed almost the same, being just ligher skinned, but with middle features, like an old prototype, undifferencied into "black"/"white"/"yellow" modern types and very different from the wellknown crossed subafricanoid-europoid we can found there too and among people of Eastern Africa or Northern Sahara, or in every big town of the world nowaday except in far Asia - the cradle of this undifferenciated type? N-E AFrica or SW-Asia? SURELY ON THE ROAD TO INDIA, but maybe AFTER A FIRST COMING OUT CASTING MORE "PRIMITIVELIKE" PEOPLE??? that said, I need putting my nose in some surveys about their DNA.

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## andresasj

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y-DNA_...an_populations

Haplogroups by the Dravidians, believe they are descendants of the Middle East people with Aryans from North India, the local climate of India made them so.

Origin of haplogroup H:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_H_(Y-DNA)

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## bicicleur

IMO haplo H arrived in India ca 48 ka, the beginning of IUP in India.
Soon after H2 split from H1H3, who became the HG population of India.
Ca 9 ka first farmers (haplo R2 and J2) from western Iran arrived in the Indus Valley.
They blended with the H1H3 HG and gradually moved south.
These are the Dravidians.

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