# Population Genetics > Autosomal Genetics >  Ancestry dna Eurogenes K13 match

## Lenab



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## Lenab



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## Lenab

Can someone please explain these results from my Gedmatch test. Also the history between Italian Abruzzo and Molise areas

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## Salento

> Can someone please explain these results from my Gedmatch test. Also the history between Italian Abruzzo and Molise areas


https://www.eupedia.com/italy/abruzzo.shtml

https://www.eupedia.com/italy/molise.shtml

https://www.eupedia.com/italy/

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## Lenab

> https://www.eupedia.com/italy/abruzzo.shtml
> 
> https://www.eupedia.com/italy/molise.shtml
> 
> https://www.eupedia.com/italy/


Yeah I get it but what type of people have immigrated to those regions rather than Wiki links dear

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## srdceleva

What is ur known ancestry


Sent from my KIW-L21 using Tapatalk

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## Salento

Stick with Wiki for now, get a general Knowledge, or else you won’t be able to judge the Credibilities of all the Theories out there.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene...story_of_Italy

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## Lenab

> What is ur known ancestry
> 
> 
> Sent from my KIW-L21 using Tapatalk


Partly English see my North Atlantic Baltic score of a Anglo Saxon background my Mum has various genetics from South Eastern Europe she was born in the Levant though not that it reflects on genetics if anyone asks she isn't a Christian lol

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## Lenab

> Stick with Wiki for now, get a general Knowledge, or else you won’t be able to judge the Credibilities of all the Theories out there.
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene...story_of_Italy


Ok I can but the thing is they don't list various migration of settlements I know that South Italy is genetically ''Greek'' populated and Ionian Greek populated at that. But that doesn't tell me much about the Illyrians who were Latin?!

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## Angela

> Ok I can but the thing is they don't list various migration of settlements I know that South Italy is genetically ''Greek'' populated and Ionian Greek populated at that. But that doesn't tell me much about the Illyrians who were Latin?!


Illyrians weren't Latin. Where did you get that?

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## Lenab

> Illyrians weren't Latin. Where did you get that?


When I say Latin I think they were a Illyrian Thracian mix that is what I have heard I don't know how to describe Thracians really? Are they to do with Greeks or Italians more?

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## davef

Looks like another job for Captain Wiki.....

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latins



*"Latins referred originally to an Italic tribe in ancient central Italy from Latium"*

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## Jovialis

> Ok I can but the thing is they don't list various migration of settlements I know that South Italy is genetically ''Greek'' populated and Ionian Greek populated at that. But that doesn't tell me much about the Illyrians who were Latin?!


The only place Illyrians _may_ have settled is in Puglia, via the Messapii.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iapygians

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## Lenab

> Looks like another job for Captain Wiki.....
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latins
> 
> 
> 
> *"Latins referred originally to an Italic tribe in ancient central Italy from Latium"*


Yes I know about Italic tribes and Romance tribes I am talking about Thracians

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## Lenab

> The only place Illyrians _may_ have settled is in Puglia, via the Messapii.
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iapygians


There is Dalmatia in Croatia thats a different thread

The history of *Illyrian* warfare spans from the beginning of the 2nd millennium BC up to the 1st century AD in the region of *Illyria* and in *southern Italy* where the Iapygian civilization flourished. It concerns the armed conflicts of the *Illyrian* tribes and their kingdoms in the Balkans in *Italy* as well as pirate activity in ...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illyrian_warfare

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## Lenab

> The only place Illyrians _may_ have settled is in Puglia, via the Messapii.
> 
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iapygians


http://www.abruzzo-villas.com/atri-italy/

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## Lenab

n prehistoric times *Abruzzo* was inhabited by Italic tribes who belonged to the group of Adriatic Sabelli (Peligny, Vestini, Marsi, Marrucini, Frentani, Pretuzi, Sanniti and others), as well as *Illyrian* (Greek) tribes who established colonies on the Adriatic coast. According to an ancient legend, after the Trojan War (12th century ...

http://www.santatiana.ru/history_eng.html

There is a reason why Abruzzo and Molise are connected with each other I think.

Anyway is it more Latin/Illyrian or Greek/Gothic that's what I want to know I somewhat know the history anyway.

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## Jovialis

Its not entirely certain if the Messapii were Illyrians, but the Latins were definitely not Illyrians.

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## Lenab

> Its not entirely certain if the Messapii were Illyrians, but the Latins were definitely not Illyrians.


Ok thank you. If it helps according to a haplogroup test I did my SNP match up to H Pioneers H2a2a1

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## Lenab



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## AdeoF

Illyrians are not latins at all. They where mostly at the Balkans most of the time

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## Lenab

> Illyrians are not latins at all. They where mostly at the Balkans most of the time


Well wasn't sure why I plotted with South Italy like Abruzzo if Illyrians were just Thracian but as the links say above there are past settlements in various areas of South Italy. I was confused that if they are physically mixed with Italians and not just Balkan ethnic groups but thanks anyway.

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## Sile

> Illyrians are not latins at all. They where mostly at the Balkans most of the time


As per Roman historians Strabo and Livy and modern historian Gimbatus, Illyrians first appeared in the Eastern Alps circa 1600BC nearly 1000 years before entering the balkans . They are not Latin neither do they have any Balkan language.....my guess would be an early central danubian language which got Celtinized and Venticized over time

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## Sile

> n prehistoric times *Abruzzo* was inhabited by Italic tribes who belonged to the group of Adriatic Sabelli (Peligny, Vestini, Marsi, Marrucini, Frentani, Pretuzi, Sanniti and others), as well as *Illyrian* (Greek) tribes who established colonies on the Adriatic coast. According to an ancient legend, after the Trojan War (12th century ...
> 
> http://www.santatiana.ru/history_eng.html
> 
> There is a reason why Abruzzo and Molise are connected with each other I think.
> 
> Anyway is it more Latin/Illyrian or Greek/Gothic that's what I want to know I somewhat know the history anyway.


No ones knows where the Sabelli originate from...........there is doubt that they are even indigenous to Italy

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## Lenab

> No ones knows where the Sabelli originate from...........there is doubt that they are even indigenous to Italy


It's the point of me making up the thread alright but obviously down South in certain areas there is a possibility of Italians being Illyrian then.

So maybe I should ask what's the percentage of it down south are they generally Alpine Med like me etc

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## davef

The one true way to find out how Illyrian certain South Italians are is to compare them against ancient Illyrian samples.

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## Lenab

> The one true way to find out how Illyrian certain South Italians are is to compare them against ancient Illyrian samples.


Sorry is there a website where I can find such plots like PCA or whatever?

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## Jovialis

> 


Did you connect your profile to that of a male relative? Like a father or brother?

What DNA service is that?

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## Lenab

> Did you connect your profile to that of a male relative? Like a father or brother?
> 
> What DNA service is that?


Sorry that was a haplogroup test I did with Britain's dna.com it's a company that offers haplogroup tests for your genetic make up. I s24 was my Father's haplogroup according to them but that makes sense seeing as he is English

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## Lenab

My Mum's was H a general European haplogroup but it's highest in the Balkans and South Eastern Europe according to them too

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## Salento

> The one true way to find out how Illyrian certain South Italians are is to compare them against ancient Illyrian samples.


Modern “Partially Illyrians” comparison, Me.

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## Lenab

> Modern “Partially Illyrians” comparison, Me.


But where are you from in Italy? So it is just West Balkan then, just genetically South East European. I wonder how they got to South Italy then, I knew that parts of it like Calabria have a ancient Greek and I have even heard of Viking settlements in South Italy but not Illyrians...

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## Salento

> But where are you from in Italy? So it is just West Balkan then, just genetically South East European. I wonder how they got to South Italy then, I knew that parts of it like Calabria have a ancient Greek and I have even heard of Viking settlements in South Italy but not Illyrians...


I’m from South Puglia. 
Illyrians came to Italy before the Greeks, same says 3.500 years ago.
As Reference:

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## Salento

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illyrians

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## Lenab

> I’m from South Puglia. 
> Illyrians came to Italy before the Greeks, same says 3.500 years ago.
> As Reference:


Thank you! I can't give you any more rep today but because I have repped so many others on this thread so when my reps come back I can rep you again lol

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## Lenab

> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illyrians


Thank you! I have heard that the Illyrians were mixed with Gothic and Greek tribes is that correct?

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## davef

> Modern “Partially Illyrians” comparison, Me.


Oh ok based on that I can see how they impacted parts of Italy genetically

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## Salento

> Thank you! I have heard that the Illyrians were mixed with Gothic and Greek tribes is that correct?


Nobody knows for sure.

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## Lenab

> Nobody knows for sure.


I don't think anyone from the Balkans could be Nordic lol even the blonde ones

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## zanipolo

> I don't think anyone from the Balkans could be Nordic lol even the blonde ones


Maybe it was misspelled and should be Noric not nordic .............Austria is Noricum
When the Celts had superseded the Illyrians, Noricum was the southern outpost of the northern Celtic peoples, and during the later period of the Iron Age, the starting point of their attacks upon Italy.[citation needed] In Noricum, almost all those Celtic invaders are mentioned. Archaeological research, particularly in the cemeteries of Hallstatt, has shown that a vigorous civilization was in the area centuries before recorded history, *but the Hallstatt civilization was a cultural manifestation prior to the Celtic invasions and close to the earlier Illyrians.* The Hallstatt graves contained weapons and ornaments from the Bronze age, through the period of transition, up to the "Hallstatt culture", i.e., the fully developed older period of the Iron age.[citation needed] William Ridgeway made a strong case for the theory that the cradle of the Homeric Achaeans was in Noricum and neighbouring areas.[7][8][contradictory]
Illyrians were created in Pannonia, Noricum and Dalmatia.

Language
The *Noric language*, a continental Celtic language, is attested in only fragmentary inscriptions, one from Ptuj[9][10] and two from Grafenstein,[11][12] neither of which provide enough information for any conclusions about the nature of the language.[9][11]

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## Lenab

> Maybe it was misspelled and should be Noric not nordic .............Austria is Noricum
> When the Celts had superseded the Illyrians, Noricum was the southern outpost of the northern Celtic peoples, and during the later period of the Iron Age, the starting point of their attacks upon Italy.[citation needed] In Noricum, almost all those Celtic invaders are mentioned. Archaeological research, particularly in the cemeteries of Hallstatt, has shown that a vigorous civilization was in the area centuries before recorded history, *but the Hallstatt civilization was a cultural manifestation prior to the Celtic invasions and close to the earlier Illyrians.* The Hallstatt graves contained weapons and ornaments from the Bronze age, through the period of transition, up to the "Hallstatt culture", i.e., the fully developed older period of the Iron age.[citation needed] William Ridgeway made a strong case for the theory that the cradle of the Homeric Achaeans was in Noricum and neighbouring areas.[7][8][contradictory]
> Illyrians were created in Pannonia, Noricum and Dalmatia.
> 
> Language
> The *Noric language*, a continental Celtic language, is attested in only fragmentary inscriptions, one from Ptuj[9][10] and two from Grafenstein,[11][12] neither of which provide enough information for any conclusions about the nature of the language.[9][11]


It was misspelled I mean a racial classification like people from the Balkans cannot be 100 percent Northern European in genetics, although even North Europeans are mixed with Celts etc especially the English and Dutch

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## zanipolo

> It was misspelled I mean a racial classification like people from the Balkans cannot be 100 percent Northern European in genetics, although even North Europeans are mixed with Celts etc especially the English and Dutch


If ancient and modern historians state the indigenous people of Austria in the bronze-age where illyrians then that is the race and not the invading celts.

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## Lenab

> If ancient and modern historians state the indigenous people of Austria in the bronze-age where illyrians then that is the race and not the invading celts.


So I guess that explains the Alpine part of the ancestry/Phenotype.

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## Angela

That a half English half Balkan person would come out with Abruzzo as first choice is extremely unlikely, even at that kind of genetic distance.

A half Turkish or other Near Eastern person might conceivably land there, perhaps.

No Illyrian samples have yet been analyzed so there's no way to compare against them. 

I don't know why you're focusing on them anyway. The Abruzzi have the typical genetics of southern Italians, there's nothing particularly Illyrian about them.

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## Lenab

> That a half English half Balkan person would come out with Abruzzo as first choice is extremely unlikely, even at that kind of genetic distance.
> 
> A half Turkish or other Near Eastern person might conceivably land there, perhaps.
> 
> No Illyrian samples have yet been analyzed so there's no way to compare against them. 
> 
> I don't know why you're focusing on them anyway. The Abruzzi have the typical genetics of southern Italians, there's nothing particularly Illyrian about them.


No focus on them, and regardless Abruzzo is South Italy with Balkan genetics in general *not South Italian*. Turks do not come from the Balkans apart from Western Anatolians. Macedonians, South Serbians Montenegrin , Croatian Danube, and Albanian Arvanites/Tosks do though.

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## Lenab

> That a half English half Balkan person would come out with Abruzzo as first choice is extremely unlikely, even at that kind of genetic distance.
> 
> A half Turkish or other Near Eastern person might conceivably land there, perhaps.
> 
> No Illyrian samples have yet been analyzed so there's no way to compare against them. 
> 
> I don't know why you're focusing on them anyway. The Abruzzi have the typical genetics of southern Italians, there's nothing particularly Illyrian about them.


And Salanto printed out the map where Illyrians have landed in Italy, you clearly do not know enough about a country you claim to be from, end of conversation.

Thread closed. Unsubscribed.

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## Jovialis

> And Salanto printed out the map where Illyrians have landed in Italy, you clearly do not know enough about a country you claim to be from, end of conversation.
> Thread closed. Unsubscribed.


Clearly, you have no idea where Abruzzo is located on the map.




Also, it's only a theory, there's no ancient DNA samples for Illyrians. Even if they did land in those areas in the lower Adriatic coast, you honestly think that would be enough to change the demographics of the people that already were living in the Abruzzo region? As for the Iapygians their origins are unknown. Moreover, genetic similarities between some of the people in the Balkans, and south Italy could have come as early as the late Neolithic.

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## Lenab

> Clearly, you have no idea where Abruzzo is located on the map.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, it's only a theory, there's no ancient DNA samples for Illyrians. Even if they did land in those areas, you honestly think that would be enough to change the demographics of the people that already were living in the Abruzzo region?


Ok whatever it was apart of a Illyrian kingdom. No I don't I have listed the ethnic groups that South Italy is related to in the Balkans. I don't think South Italy is just simply Greco, Greek or South European. I know for a fact that people from the West Balkans have settled there like Arvantine Albanians and Croatians in Campomario as well and are similar to the Danube types in Croatia. 

The Illyrians are mostly in Dinaric types. I asked a simple question is Abruzzo more to do with South Italians Greco types or people from South East Europe Balkan types excluding Dinarics. I think it's a bit of both to be honest. Yes, for the other stuff it is late neolithic. 

I have no obsession with Illyrians Albanians do.

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## Jovialis

> Ok whatever it was apart of a Illyrian kingdom. No I don't I have listed the ethnic groups that South Italy is related to in the Balkans. I don't think South Italy is just simply Greco, Greek or South European. I know for a fact that people from the West Balkans have settled there like Arvantine Albanians and Croatians in Campomario as well and are similar to the Danube types in Croatia. 
> 
> The Illyrians are mostly in Dinaric types. I asked a simple question is Abruzzo more to do with South Italians Greco types or people from South East Europe Balkan types excluding Dinarics. I think it's a bit of both to be honest. Yes, for the other stuff it is late neolithic. 
> 
> I have no obsession with Illyrians Albanians do.


Of course Southern Italy is not just Greek, there were Italic people there too. Southern Italians are more ITALIAN than they are Greek.

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## Angela

> No focus on them, and regardless Abruzzo is South Italy with Balkan genetics in general *not South Italian*. Turks do not come from the Balkans apart from Western Anatolians. Macedonians, South Serbians Montenegrin , Croatian Danube, and Albanian Arvanites/Tosks do though.


That comment makes absolutely no sense...the Abruzzi is a Southern Italian region in genetics, dialect, culture, you name it. 

It's no more or less Balkan than any other southern Italian region.

If you continue to post such nonsense, meaningless posts I'm going to have to start deleting them. It gives a very bad impression of the caliber of discussion here.

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## Lenab

> That comment makes absolutely no sense...the Abruzzi is a Southern Italian region in genetics, dialect, culture, you name it. 
> 
> It's no more or less Balkan than any other southern Italian region.
> 
> If you continue to post such nonsense, meaningless posts I'm going to have to start deleting them. It gives a very bad impression of the caliber of discussion here.


South Italy is it is apart of Eastern Mediterranean anyway that is including in the Balkans the Balkans in South Eastern Europe.

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## davef

There are British people with Viking ancestry, does that make them Scandinavian or the regions where the vikings invaded part of Sweden?

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## Lenab

> Of course Southern Italy is not just Greek, there were Italic people there too. Southern Italians are more ITALIAN than they are Greek.


Even if that is the case I have no problem with it. I was just curious to know the history of the people in culture. It was a generalised question and I am sorry if it seemed defensive on my part.

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## Lenab

> There are British people with Viking ancestry, does that make them Scandinavian or the regions where the vikings invaded part of Sweden?


No it makes them British people with Viking genetics they are culturally British just like South English who are genetically related to North Germans who are culturally British not culturally North German. 

So I guess everywhere has different immigration of peoples.

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## davef

> No it makes them British people with Viking genetics they are culturally British just like South English who are genetically related to North Germans who are culturally British not culturally North German. 
> 
> So I guess everywhere has different immigration of peoples.


Then if supposedly Abruzzo people do have Illyrian blood, why can't they be Italian?

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## Angela

Just stop....Some parts of England have SOME ancestry from Vikings, which is probably not all that different from the DANISH ancestry that some of them have. They're not TOTALLY "VIKING" even in the Hebrides or Iceland. For goodness' sakes, every area in Europe has layers of migration, each new group of migrants mingling with the people who were there before.

This has already been studied and discussed for probably every "ethnic" group in Europe. Use the search engine to educate yourself about modern population genetics before you post, or your stay here will be short.

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## Lenab

> Just stop....Some parts of England have SOME ancestry from Vikings, which is probably not all that different from the DANISH ancestry that some of them have. They're not TOTALLY "VIKING" even in Hebrides. For goodness' sakes, every area in Europe has layers of migration, each new area mingling with the people who were there before.
> 
> This has already been studied and discussed. Use the search engine to educate yourself about modern population genetics before you post, or your stay here will be short.


In North England they have a Viking/Celtic mix 

https://thewildpeak.wordpress.com/20...-west-england/

Angela, I am sorry if we have started off on the wrong foot I don't take an interest in arguing with people online. I will round up this thread now you can just delete it.

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## cylnlts

Population


North_Atlantic
7.82

Baltic
4.49

West_Med
15.09

West_Asian
27.37

East_Med
28.52

Red_Sea
4.27

South_Asian
4.39

East_Asian
3.91

Siberian
2.35

Amerindian
0.75

Oceanian
0.43

Northeast_African
-

Sub-Saharan
0.6

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## alexfritz

Population


North_Atlantic
34.89

Baltic
17.17

West_Med
23.53

West_Asian
5.94

East_Med
14.70

Red_Sea
2.60

South_Asian
-

East_Asian
-

Siberian
0.58

Amerindian
0.25

Oceanian
0.34

Northeast_African
-

Sub-Saharan
-

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## Angela

Another useless calculator where only if you already know who you are in terms of ethnicity can you make any sense of it.

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## Sile

K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013
Admix Results (sorted):
#	Population	Percent
1 North_Atlantic 29.88
2 West_Med 22.94
3 East_Med 17.23
4 Baltic 17.04
5 West_Asian 8.44
6 Red_Sea 2.34
Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.
--------------------------------
Least-squares method.
Using 1 population approximation:
1 North_Italian @ 6.760091
2 Tuscan @ 10.795969
3 Romanian @ 11.411736
4 Bulgarian @ 12.733378
5 Portuguese @ 12.821866
6 Serbian @ 12.969690
.................................................. .

MDLP K11 2xOracle and OracleX4
Admix Results (sorted):
#	Population	Percent
1 Neolithic 39.99
2 WHG 24.69
3 EHG 23.52
4 Basal 8.21
5 Iran-Mesolithic 1.90
6 ASI 1.54
Finished reading population data. 161 populations found.
11 components mode.
--------------------------------
Least-squares method.
Using 1 population approximation:
1 Maros_BA @ 13.194548
2 Germany_BA @ 14.352517
3 Germany_Bronze_Age @ 14.352517

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% GermanStuttgart_LBK +50% Karsdorf_LN @ 3.616040
.
.
Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Halberstadt_LBA +25% Iran_Chalcolithic +25% Salzmuende_MN @ 2.439221

.
.

I have not bothered with anything over 15.0

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