# Population Genetics > Y-DNA Haplogroups > N1c >  How did Haplogroup N reach Anatolia?

## Boranidas

*Hi all,

I am originally from Turkey and I recently participated in the "Genographic project" by the National Geographic. 

I was very surprised to find out that my y dna haplogroup is haplogroup N which only constitutes %3.7 of the Turkish male population.

I personally made some research trying to find out how my ancestors have ended up in Anatolia but it is a very difficult question to answer as there was no direct hint on the matter.

The map given to me by the genographic project shows a pattern of movement from central asia towards russia and finland but the migration arrows end around there.

I need a good historical and genetic understanding of how this haplogroup could have come to Anatolia and I would really appreciate your insights on this matter.

Thank you.*

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## Maciamo

Anatolia has experienced many invasions from the Euasian steppe and Central Asia in its history, among which some people undeniably carried haplogroup N. It's hard to know more precisely which one though.

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## Boranidas

Well those are 2 possibilities but is there a migration route coming down from the Balkans as well? Considering the fact that The huns and Avars once settled in the Area. They could have made it down towards to Anatolia which we will not know in most history books.

So since we cannot be sure from which region they came from exactly, my second question is which nationality or in better terms ethnic group do you think they(haplogroup N carriers) might have belonged to? Russian invaders? Central Asian invaders?(I doubt this theory as all Turks who have the central Asian origin are mainly from Haplogroup Q and C and there has been no direct hint to how/where haplogroup N fall in to)

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## Boranidas

I believe there is no or very less information/sources in regards to this topic.

That's why I would prefer you to speculate about which possibility you find most likely and how that is so. Haplogroup N is 10,000 years old, how and with which specific migrations it might have entered Anatolia? Considering the fact that the Central Asian theory is more valid in terms of Haplogroups Q and C.

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## Joro

Bosnian Serbs have 7 percent of N haplogroup

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## Boranidas

That %7 is higher than the rate found in Turkey(%4) indirectly dismissing the possibility of the haplogroup entering Turkey through Central Asia. It might have been carried on through the Balkans.

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## willy

Yes Central Asia is the best idea on my opinion

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## Boranidas

why you think that? and plus you seem to be N tat as well. I am curious, are you originally from Europe?

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## Semitic Duwa

He's actually G, but he's just playing with your mind.

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## Haganus

In the Netherlands, West-Germany, Belgium, UK and Denmark the haplogroup N is
virtually absent.

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## usm007

I am from Turkey with Haplogroup N and my family goes back 6 generations to Ankara area.

We probably came either through Balkans or as a result of wars/invasions/rape.
Timur is another possibility since they camped around Ankara.

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## Eochaidh

I wonder if the Janissaries could be responsible for the N. They were mostly from the Balkans.

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## Maciamo

> I wonder if the Janissaries could be responsible for the N. They were mostly from the Balkans.


There is much less N in the Balkans than in Turkey.

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## Eochaidh

> There is much less N in the Balkans than in Turkey.


You are correct, of course. I should have checked this first: http://www.eupedia.com/europe/european_y-dna_haplogroups.shtml

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## willy

Turkey is the most important mixture of haplogroups on earth !

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## vadu

> Central Asian invaders?(I doubt this theory as all Turks who have the central Asian origin are mainly from Haplogroup Q and C and there has been no direct hint to how/where haplogroup N fall in to)


That is not really true. There are G1 - Argyn, R1b - Kipchak, R1a - Jalair, O3 - Naiman, N1, J2 - Doulat, E1 - Kozha there in Central Asian population as well. And Q is less than R1b or G1. 
Virtually every CA tribe belongs to certain Hg apart Q and N1 so far. But it might be a lack of data then.

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## vadu

Update to previous post. Edige (Noghai-Manghit) descendants have N1. R1a is common Hg among Altaians and Kirgiz.

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## Anatolian

what makes you say that? Interesting..

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## vadu

I am ethnic Kazakh with N1c1 and there is likely Turkic cluster of 3 Kazakhs and 1 Tatar from Volga river basin. 
So I would say N in Turkic people derived from Xiongnu and part of them later formed the core of Oghuz Turkic tribes which in turn invaded Anatolia.

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## F117stealth

Hi,

I'm Romanian and got confirmed N Haplogroup so Balkanian route could be considered. At least My granparents populated an area in the SE of Romania, very close to Bulgary and in the Danube vecinity..

Furthermore these guys here need to update their N haplogroup distribution for Romania since there are few N Y haplogroups as well. At the moment they stated "0".

May I ask you how do u look Boranidas? Have u a tipycal turkish look?

Cheers.

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## vadu

> Hi,
> 
> I'm Romanian and got confirmed N Haplogroup so Balkanian route could be considered. At least My granparents populated an area in the SE of Romania, very close to Bulgary and in the Danube vecinity..
> 
> Furthermore these guys here need to update their N haplogroup distribution for Romania since there are few N Y haplogroups as well. At the moment they stated "0".
> 
> May I ask you how do u look Boranidas? Have u a tipycal turkish look?
> 
> Cheers.


 Physical features has nothing to do with Y chromosome only, that's the contribution of all of your ancestors, including females. You'll look as your country mates unless you are recent migrant or from very isolated community.

What company have you done your test? If FTDNA, I'd recommend to order SNP L1034. There were a few breakthroughs over a couple years. Looks like Turkish and European N1c1 took different ways - Turkish via Central Asia and Iran and European via what is now Russia and Hungary, both groups from Siberia. I belong to L1034 branch as well as 1 Nenets, 1 Bashkir, 5 Hunagarians (2 of them from Transilvania), 1 Greek. So, I wouldn't surprised if Romanian turns out N1c1-L1034.

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## zanipolo

> Hi,
> 
> I'm Romanian and got confirmed N Haplogroup so Balkanian route could be considered. At least My granparents populated an area in the SE of Romania, very close to Bulgary and in the Danube vecinity..
> 
> Furthermore these guys here need to update their N haplogroup distribution for Romania since there are few N Y haplogroups as well. At the moment they stated "0".
> 
> May I ask you how do u look Boranidas? Have u a tipycal turkish look?
> 
> Cheers.


 Bosnian Serbs have 6% of N1 (LLY22g), some of the 6% is P-189.2

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## uguner

N Haplogroup might had arrived to Anatolia with Oghuzes as said in Turkey or Oghurs as said up in North now Russia among Oguric-Uralic tribes; however, both are referring to the same group of people speaking Turkic languages may be the source of the N Haplogroup.

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## F117stealth

> Physical features has nothing to do with Y chromosome only, that's the contribution of all of your ancestors, including females. You'll look as your country mates unless you are recent migrant or from very isolated community.
> 
> What company have you done your test? If FTDNA, I'd recommend to order SNP L1034. There were a few breakthroughs over a couple years. Looks like Turkish and European N1c1 took different ways - Turkish via Central Asia and Iran and European via what is now Russia and Hungary, both groups from Siberia. I belong to L1034 branch as well as 1 Nenets, 1 Bashkir, 5 Hunagarians (2 of them from Transilvania), 1 Greek. So, I wouldn't surprised if Romanian turns out N1c1-L1034.


It was genebase.com and the results pointed out N1c1d (L550+). So far I came no deeper than this. People from abroad tend to ask me if I am Polish or Russian. By Alleles means the closest match seems to be related to balts (lithuanians) so going back to what people ask me one can easily make fragile connections.. Otherwise perfectly agree with your statement. Not sure at the moment if I belong to Neuri or Varangians or to other N1c1 D (L550+) subgroups - work in progress.

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## Tatar

Probably North or Central Asian origin. Me too belong to N1c1.

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## Garrick

> There is much less N in the Balkans than in Turkey.


Yes, and for Bosnian Serbs (about 6%) it's coincidence, it's a small sample. In Serbia is less 2%, in Upper Macedonia is about 0,5-1%, in Croatia is similar, etc. Balkans is no area where N carriers could be find in a significant number.

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## Ike

I've read somewhere that some Hunnic warriors settled round Bosnia during their invasions.

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## nr9

Historically Migration Waves to Anatolia: 
First of all, Kypchaks migrating from east to west caused some Oghuz tribes to move south (Khwarezm and Transoxiana) whereas Pechenegs moved westward (Europe). Oghuz tribes encountered with Ghaznavids and had war called "Battle of Dandanaqan" and they seized Khorasan. After expanding to the westward, they encountered with Byzantium, and had battle with them in Anatolia. After attacking Anatolia, some of the local settlers moved to the west of Anatolia or Greece whereas Turkic people massively started to conquer and settle in Anatolia. Chronologically you can see the migration waves.
1. Battle of Dandanaqan (1040); Oghuz Turks started to move to Azerbaijan and Iran.
2. Battle of Manzikert (1071): Oghuz Turks started to settle in Anatolia. 
3. Battle of Qatwan (1141) caused new migration waves to Azerbaijan and Iran. Incoming Oghuz tribes terminated Seljuks in Iran, but the wing of Seljuks in Turkey continued. 
4. The armies of Genghis Khan (1222-1227) caused the biggest migration wave to Anatolia. Ottoman tribe also came to Anatolia as a result of Mongol invasion. 
5. The armies of Timur (1402) did not cause much migration to Anatolia, but they reduced the number of Armenians. 
6. The Conquer of Constantinople (1453): The Ottoman sultans started to make some Turkish tribes settle in Balkans to provide security of the west. 

As a result of all these migration waves, Central Asian Turkic tribes brought J2, R1a, R1b, C3, N, G and Q between 11th-15th centuries. The local people of Anatolia might also have similar haplogroups, but to be sure, you should test your SNPs and determine haplotype/subclade because the subclades of incomers are different from the indigeneous though they might have the same haplogroups. 

Anyway, you N might have been brought from Central Asia by Turkic tribes if it is similar to the ones in Central Asian subclades. If not, maybe from the north of Europe, Siberia or Northeast of Asia through the Balkans. In fact, N is not typical to Central Asia, but it is more typical to north of Siberia and America.

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## Norvila

Hi, Why table Y-DNA per country https://www.eupedia.com/europe/europ...logroups.shtml 
indicates 1% for Bosnian Serbs and (2,5%) for Serbia (minus?)

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## xiaodragon

Re: YHgN: there is a study , follow the link please , it has a lot information : 
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...e.0066102.t001
*Genetic Evidence of an East Asian Origin and Paleolithic Northward Migration of Y-chromosome Haplogroup N**The Y-chromosome haplogroup N-M231 (Hg N) is distributed widely in eastern and central Asia, Siberia, as well as in eastern and northern Europe. Previous studies suggested a counterclockwise prehistoric migration of Hg N from eastern Asia to eastern and northern Europe. However, the root of this Y chromosome lineage and its detailed dispersal pattern across eastern Asia are still unclear. We analyzed haplogroup profiles and phylogeographic patterns of 1,570 Hg N individuals from 20,826 males in 359 populations across Eurasia. We first genotyped 6,371 males from 169 populations in China and Cambodia, and generated data of 360 Hg N individuals, and then combined published data on 1,210 Hg N individuals from Japanese, Southeast Asian, Siberian, European and Central Asian populations. The results showed that the sub-haplogroups of Hg N have a distinct geographical distribution. The highest Y-STR diversity of the ancestral Hg N sub-haplogroups was observed in the southern part of mainland East Asia, and further phylogeographic analyses supports an origin of Hg N in southern China. Combined with previous data, we propose that the early northward dispersal of Hg N started from southern China about 21 thousand years ago (kya), expanding into northern China 12–18 kya, and reaching further north to Siberia about 12–14 kya before a population expansion and westward migration into Central Asia and eastern/northern Europe around 8.0–10.0 kya. This northward migration of Hg N likewise coincides with retreating ice sheets after the Last Glacial Maximum (22–18 kya) in mainland East Asia.*

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## xiaodragon

*Human Y Chromosome Haplogroup N: A Non-trivial Time-Resolved Phylogeography that Cuts across Language Families*https://www.cell.com/ajhg/fulltext/S...6)30160-4#fig1

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