# General Discussion > Opinions >  How political correctness kills free speech

## Angela

This is also tied to all this nonsense about "safe spaces" on campus. The poor darlings have to be shielded from not only every hurtful comment but every opinion contrary to their own.

If this isn't reversed western civilization is in huge trouble, imo.

See:
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...campus/497387/

----------


## bicicleur

who or what is BDS and how come they are so influential ?

----------


## Angela

BDS is an organization started by Palestinians which attacks Israel and Israel policy at every opportunity. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycot..._and_Sanctions
https://bdsmovement.net/

They try to wrap themselves in the mantle of anti-apartheid, but so far as I can tell they're far left crazies and supporters of terrorism. I'm not saying Israel is always correct in what it does; I don't think the U.S. is always correct, or Italy for that matter, but this group smells like your typical fellow traveler with terrorist ties organization. (Meanwhile, the majority of Palestinian Israelis have very positive attitudes towards Jews from a recent study I saw.)

I certainly hope the FBI is trying to track their associations and is keeping an eye on them.

They make common cause with African American groups like "Black Lives Matter", radical feminist groups, etc. 

If you can believe how bad it gets, this sort of garbage shows up even at Jewish affiliated schools. The story of how a student at Brandeis University in Massachusetts who re-tweeted another person's e-mail where he said that he had no sympathy for policemen shot by African Americans is an object lesson in the totalitarianism of the left which is taking over our college campuses. 

Apparently, it's no longer permissible to broadcast or alert people to the opinions of others if those opinions are on the left side of the spectrum or are uttered by minorities. If the original poster felt no sympathy for policemen shot by African-Americans, and felt so strongly about it that he tweeted the comment, he should have no problem with the comment being tweeted. He has the right to feel that way, and other people have the right to know how he feels.

Some idiot protested, got other leftist groups to protest, and somehow got the university to impose sanctions on the student who re-tweeted the comment. He had to stay a certain distance from other people on campus for their "protection". Can you believe the stupidity and the moral cowardice of the administrators? If I were someone who had previously donated to the school I would organize a boycott in terms of donations until those administrators were fired. If people want to organize to play the intimidation game, they have to know it can be played against them, too. This kind of stuff has personal implications too. I hope this got wide circulation. Before hiring, everybody does a google search. What goes around, comes around.
http://dailycaller.com/2015/01/09/br...ists-movement/

----------


## bicicleur

I looked up what safe spaces mean.

How stupid can this be?
If people can't handle other opinions at school, how can they ever in real life?
And who decides what is 'safe'?

----------


## Twilight

As disturbing as it seems, unfortunately you can't change the spots on a dog. If they're that extreme of a leftist, why not designate a place for them that is far away from the continental United States like Alaska instead of just Canada.

I always thought of Black Lives Matter as just a matter of distrusting Governmental Employees but if there's connections with Islam, perhaps we should monitor them.

----------


## Angela

As far as I'm concerned there's absolutely no question that some police officers are racist, but it's not rampant the way these groups would have you believe. For goodness sakes', half the police force in large cities like New York, Atlanta, Detroit, Chicago, is of minority origin, and virtually all the police chiefs are from a minority group.

Plus, if you're going to organize and protest, and choose a slogan, make sure it's not a lie. That suspect DID NOT raise his hands and say, "stop, don't shoot". He reached into a patrol car and tried to take a gun away from a police officer who had called him over to the car because he was a suspect in a theft at a convenience store. When he ran off, armed with a knife, the policeman ran after him, as was his duty. He was shot when he turned around and rushed the officer. Numerous eye-witnesses, all of them black, testified to that effect before a grand jury. The false allegation was made by a man who had been part of the theft at the convenience store, and was accepted unquestioningly and spread by the media without doing even a minimal amount of checking. Such is the state of journalism today.

The tragedy is that this discredits those who raise legitimate concerns about policing in minority neighborhoods. The people who suffer are the people in those same minority communities, because the officers assigned to those neighborhoods are just taking a hands off policy. As a result, not only robbery rates, but also rapes and murders are on the increase.

Something similar happened in Baltimore. There was a witch hunt against a number of officers because an inmate who was being transported in a van wound up with a broken neck. The black female prosecutor charged every police officer who came in contact with him with murder based on absolutely no evidence. The defense intelligently went with a judge trial instead of a jury trial. A very well respected black judge dismissed all the charges; he couldn't even find evidence of criminal negligence.

@Bicicleur,
If this weren't so pathetic it would be laughable. Check out this other Atlantic article. It's called, "The Coddling of the American mind". It explains "trigger" or content warnings, and "microaggressions." Law school professors are not supposed to use the word "rape" or "violate" in teaching the law about these subjects. How precisely are you supposed to do that?

Also,
"Two terms have risen quickly from obscurity into common campus parlance._Microaggressions are small actions or word choices that seem on their face to have no malicious intent but that are thought of as a kind of violence nonetheless. For example, by some campus guidelines, it is a microaggression to ask an Asian American or Latino American “Where were you born?,” because this implies that he or she is not a real American. Trigger warnings are alerts that professors are expected to issue if something in a course might cause a strong emotional response. For example, some students have called for warnings that Chinua Achebe’s Things Fall Apart describes racial violence and that F. Scott Fitzgerald’sThe Great Gatsby portrays misogyny and physical abuse, so that students who have been previously victimized by racism or domestic violence can choose to avoid these works, which they believe might “trigger” a recurrence of past trauma."

_http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/...n-mind/399356/

Or check out this beauty, again at Brandeis...Can you imagine shelling out 200,000 and having your kid come out like this? I'd give him or her such a sciaffo their heads would rotate 360 degrees like the child played by Linda Blair in "The Exorcist".

"Some recent campus actions border on the surreal. In April, at Brandeis University, the Asian American student association sought to raise awareness of microaggressions against Asians through an installation on the steps of an academic hall. The installation gave examples of microaggressions such as “Aren’t you supposed to be good at math?” and “I’m colorblind! I don’t see race.” But a backlash arose among other Asian American students, who felt that the display itself was a microaggression. The association removed the installation, and its president wrote an e-mail to the entire student body apologizing to anyone who was “triggered or hurt by the content of the microaggressions.”

----------


## davef

'MICROAGGRESSIONS'? LOL. Do students have to constantly tweak their words in a way to avoid being convicted of committing a microagression whether it be random chatter out in a public area on campus or while writing an essay? "Statement must be gender neutral. -30 points"-a bright student gets a C- grade on an essay after losing enough points due to lack of political correctness...

Okay, it's one thing to burn a cross in front of a black student's dorm. That's flat out wrong and in my view, punishable. But asking an Asian student with an accent where he's from-"RACISM"! Says the PC principal. How is that denying that he's an American citizen? It's merely a way of getting to know him and his family background, its not the same as asking if he's a legal citizen...that would be wrong. 

Law school professors aren't allowed to say "rape"....I can't figure that one out

Students are allowed to opt out of reading books that are "offensive". That gives a lazy student an opportunity to opt out and coast by with an A grade. I would expect The Merchant of Venice to be outlawed. I'm pretty sure Angela has that book memorized-it's a Shakespeare play set in Northern Italy. That would definitely win her over :). 

Speaking of Shakespeare. I was never able to understand those plays, let alone Beowulf (not a Sheakespeare play, but I'm pretty sure it influenced him to a degree). Back in 12th grade, I became the laughing stock of the class when I gave my interpretation of the intro outloud...mine was "duuuuuuhhhh....God loves Beowulf....duuuuuuuuhhhh....God loves pagans.....uuuuuuuuhh...durrr....the royal family were all pagans...uh..."
Glad I never majored in English. Outloud isn't even a word according to spell check. lol.

----------


## Maciamo

Political correctness is quite an American thing. People in continental Europe usually have no problem saying what they think and argue with anyone who disagrees. German and French speakers can be quite blunt in that regard. Britain is a different but not because of PC. Britons are often too polite, reserved, inhibited and eager to avoid conflict to raise controversial subjects in public, or cause a fuss in general.

----------


## bicicleur

Till very recently there were many things you couldn't say in Europe without being labelled racist by established politicians and by the press.
That is political correctness too.

Safe spaces don't exist though, I had to look that one up.

----------


## Angela

@Davef,

Burning a cross in some sort of racist display might constitute a fire hazard so it's a bit different. However, let's make it a Nazi flag. If someone comes to your house and plants it on your lawn that's trespass and he can be arrested. If he puts it on his own lawn that's free speech protected by the First Amendment to the Constitution. 

It can also be carried in the public square if someone gets a permit. Don't they teach about the Skokie parade anymore? They were even allowed to march with it down the streets of a heavily Jewish neighborhood home to lots of Holocaust survivors. Talk about violating a "safe space".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation...lage_of_Skokie

That's one of the things that's so shocking about what's going on at university. Have both students and faculty forgotten that they live in a country where these things are settled law? Perhaps some of these Nazis of the left are counting on the fact that they're attending private universities, but they're accepting too much government money for the rules not to apply to them. Certainly, once they're out in the real world, there are no "safe spaces".

It's time to grow up.

@Bicicleur,
So far as I can tell, European society in general, at least as far as western Europe is concerned, is far more PC than the U.S. and there is less freedom of speech. Isn't it the case in most countries that even having Nazi flags etc. is criminal behavior? Even politically, everybody is basically a socialist.

One difference is in terms of libel laws however. You can defame people far more easily in Europe, and as a result really wild accusations can be leveled at people without consequences, particularly in the media.

What I'm describing here is a phenomenon of colleges and universities. It isn't part of normal discourse, thank God. My concern is that the habits and attitudes formed there will be carried out into the real world.

----------


## davef

I'm not saying that skinheads should be arrested for their views or for raising nazi flags on their own lawn. And I can kind of see where you're getting at angela-you're worried that students will have these over zealous pc principal ideals ingrained in their heads for up to 4 years and will essentially be weak and vulnerable to displays of racism when they're out and about right?

----------


## Angela

I'm concerned that they could easily lead the way into a totalitarianism of the left. I'm also concerned that these students have developed absolutely no capacity for critical thinking. Of course, it's the fault of the prior generation. The people staffing the colleges and universities are the sixties and seventies radicals. Now, their indoctrination is bearing fruit. It's a perfect example of being "hoisted by your own petard". If it weren't dangerous for the society as a whole there would be a certain satisfaction in seeing it happen. 

They're actually very short-sighted, in my opinion. The only way to defeat unsupported and illogical ideas is to debate them in a public forum where you can show their shortcomings.

If you force certain ideas "underground", they proliferate.

Oh, as to your comment above, a lot of Shakespeare's plays are set in Italy, and his poetry forms come from there. That isn't why I love his work, however. I'm not so parochial as all that. I love him for the extraordinary beauty of his verse and for the fact that few writers have so understood and explained the human condition in such a compassionate way. It's worth it to learn English just to be able to read English literature and especially Shakespeare in the original. As for the Merchant of Venice, it's never been one of my favorites. When I was young I knew almost all of "Romeo and Juliet" by heart. (again, set in Italy, and based on an Italian story) Then, Macbeth and the historical plays appealed to me more, but also some of the comedies, like "Twefth Night". I've always loved "Lear", although my children are so far not so ungrateful,and I don't think I'm old enough yet to completely appreciate it. "Hamlet" always annoyed me despite the fact that it's a wonderful play. In my mind I'm constantly saying, "Do it, already". He's such a ditherer. :)

If I were limited to four books to take with me into the apocalypse I'd save Dante, The Complete Works of Shakespeare, and collected volumes of Italian and English poetry. Maybe I'd extend it to five and include the King James Version of the Bible. There's no understanding of western civilization without it.

----------


## davef

So you're worried that these radicals will influence these students, and these students would take actions that are influenced by what they've been taught, and the consequences may vary :)?. 

Yeah public forums like this go good against skinheads who like to post threads about how "non-European" (insert south euro group here) are.

----------


## Maciamo

> Till very recently there were many things you couldn't say in Europe without being labelled racist by established politicians and by the press.
> That is political correctness too.
> 
> Safe spaces don't exist though, I had to look that one up.


Politicians couldn't say it, but that didn't prevent people in the street from speaking their mind. Of course politicians have to be diplomatic in a democracy. My understanding is that political correctness is the use of political restrain in stating one's opinion by non-politicians.

----------


## Maciamo

> So far as I can tell, European society in general, at least as far as western Europe is concerned, is far more PC than the U.S. and there is less freedom of speech. Isn't it the case in most countries that even having Nazi flags etc. is criminal behavior? Even politically, everybody is basically a socialist.


AFAIK Nazi propaganda is only illegal in Germany, and that does not prevent the existence of Neo-Nazi movements. 

There isn't much political correctness even among politicians in a country like France, where they regularly insult each others on public debates on TV. The Front National doesn't mince its words either towards immigrants, pretty much in the same way as Trump is doing now. The difference is that it's been like that in France for many decades without interruption. It's not a new phenomenon. Anti-Islam and anti-immigration parties are now flourishing in many European countries, including Austria, Hungary, Poland, Denmark, the Netherlands... They even ousted Angela Merkel's party in her own home state two days ago. And these parties can't win, let alone exist, without some fairly hostile and racist rhetoric.

----------


## bicicleur

> Politicians couldn't say it, but that didn't prevent people in the street from speaking their mind. Of course politicians have to be diplomatic in a democracy. My understanding is that political correctness is the use of political restrain in stating one's opinion by non-politicians.


it was not only the politicians
also the press was categorizing some political parties as 'racists' and others not

as you know, in Belgium, the main TV channel is still subsidised and its editors and responsables were appointed by commitees appointed by politicians

----------


## srdceleva

> Political correctness is quite an American thing. People in continental Europe usually have no problem saying what they think and argue with anyone who disagrees. German and French speakers can be quite blunt in that regard. Britain is a different but not because of PC. Britons are often too polite, reserved, inhibited and eager to avoid conflict to raise controversial subjects in public, or cause a fuss in general.


as an american living in Austria, i cant really agree with that. I find central europeans to be more direct about daily things, for example if someone makes a mistake in a food order, austrians will not hesitate to correct the waiter or whoever where as americans or brits may just let it slide. However, when it Comes to being politically correct, all europeans are very afraid of saying anything that seems intolerant or not liberal. Germans and austrians are even more extreme than the english i would say with political correctness Ive literally seen parades of naked People in vienna, and though the vast majority of regular People find it repulsive, almost no one says anything as they dont want to seem íntolerant.

----------


## Maciamo

> as an american living in Austria, i cant really agree with that. I find central europeans to be more direct about daily things, for example if someone makes a mistake in a food order, austrians will not hesitate to correct the waiter or whoever where as americans or brits may just let it slide. However, when it Comes to being politically correct, all europeans are very afraid of saying anything that seems intolerant or not liberal. Germans and austrians are even more extreme than the english i would say with political correctness Ive literally seen parades of naked People in vienna, and though the vast majority of regular People find it repulsive, almost no one says anything as they dont want to seem íntolerant.


Austrians also share the German trauma and shame about their Nazi past, and are therefore more careful than other Europeans about not sounding racist. I don't know how you can be sure that so many Austrians found the naked parade repulsive. German speakers are generally very open-minded and tolerant when it comes to nudity. They don't mind going to the sauna completely naked, for instance. They don't have the same squeamishness about nudity and privacy as the more reserved Brits and Belgians, and also lack the puritanical streak found among many Christian communities in the USA. When I was in Japan, I was shocked that the Japanese all went naked in communal hot spring pools, but when we discussed those issue on an expat forum, German speakers couldn't even understand what the problem was with that. For them nudity is seen as completely natural, and not shameful or distasteful.

----------


## Maleth

political correctness is the wisdom of saying what you want (free speech) without (often deliberately) using words to (often intentionally) hurt, belittle, and so on, creating a poisonous environment full of hate to satisfy some deranged mind. Political correctness is a very wide topic and has different implications in different scenarios and situations. Some are tolerable others can be very dangerous. On a street level when people pride themselves of not being politically correct seem to be always in trouble and often say their life is destined to be in trouble. Once somebody decides to say something on the spur of the moment without having digested some type of correct and unbiased information and just fueled by rumors and false theories then its not easy to erase the pain that has been created. Even if that person is correct then there are ways and ways of putting the point across. Same thing can be said. One way can destruct a relationship another way can positively construct a relationship.

----------


## LeBrok

> political correctness is the wisdom of saying what you want (free speech) without (often deliberately) using words to (often intentionally) hurt, belittle, and so on, creating a poisonous environment full of hate to satisfy some deranged mind. Political correctness is a very wide topic and has different implications in different scenarios and situations. Some are tolerable others can be very dangerous. On a street level when people pride themselves of not being politically correct seem to be always in trouble and often say their life is destined to be in trouble. Once somebody decides to say something on the spur of the moment without having digested some type of correct and unbiased information and just fueled by rumors and false theories then its not easy to erase the pain that has been created. Even if that person is correct then there are ways and ways of putting the point across. Same thing can be said. One way can destruct a relationship another way can positively construct a relationship.


Very well put Maleth, and exactly how I see it. Putting things in further perspective, for the guys and girls who think they really hate political correctness, try to be politically incorrect towards your spouse or friends. Yes, go ahead, and tell the the Truth. And good luck with your lonely life.

----------


## Angela

My feelings about free speech can be understood best in the light of the following two quotes:

"_First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—__Because I was not a Socialist.
__Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out— 
__Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
__Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
__Because I was not a Jew.
__Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."
_https://www.ushmm.org/wlc/en/article.php?ModuleId=10007392

_"I don't agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
_https://studentactivism.net/2015/01/08/no-voltaire-didnt-say-that-no-not-that-either/

That is what free speech is all about. That's why I agree with the U.S. Supreme Court decisions decriminalizing the burning of the U.S. flag, or the carrying of Nazi insignia. 

However, to be clear, free speech concerns the "*government*" or its emissaries, and whether they have the right to criminalize certain kinds of speech. It doesn't have anything to do with private life. I've said before, and it's true, that I wouldn't allow racist comments or views to be expressed in my home. I only had occasion to ask someone to leave, once, and it wasn't easy, but I did it. To look at it from a personal angle, students have a perfect right not to associate with or to shun people on campus who make offensive remarks, much less in your own home or with friends or family members.

I'm not at all talking about that. To take the example from colleges and universities again, which is the subject of this thread, institutions chartered by the government, which couldn't exist without government funding, are criminalizing certain speech, and not just blatantly racist speech. If you, in the example given,* re-tweet* a tweet by a minority student that he doesn't feel any sympathy for policemen targeted for assassination, you can and will be disciplined by the university for "attacking" minorities.

That's why I said that perhaps some university administrators think they can skirt the free speech angle by saying they're private institutions who can decide what speech they will tolerate. The problem is that they're chartered, supervised, and given a lot of money by the government, so I don't think that would work. 

This is how far things have gone. Even in cases where people sport Nazi paraphernalia or espouse white supremacist ideas, I don't think we can allow the government to prohibit speech unless or until it constitutes an incitement to violence. Where would it end? You can have a totalitarianism of the left as well as the right. If you let the government prohibit the free speech rights of "*those*" people, you give the government of a different type that comes into power the right to come after *you*.

In America, I'd be classified as a "first amendment absolutist", unless and until, as I said, the speech is used to incite violence or the overthrow of the government. I believe, also, that in allowing such ideas to be expressed, we have the opportunity to defeat them by showing how illogical and stupid they are. If you push it all underground, it will just grow.

----------


## Maleth

> Very well put Maleth, and exactly how I see it. Putting things in further perspective, for the guys and girls who think they really hate political correctness, try to be politically incorrect towards your spouse or friends. Yes, go ahead, and tell the the Truth. And good luck with your lonely life.


I have seen this time and time again on street level. Some people are genetically programmed to say exactly what they feel spontaneously, and often say 'but at least you know where you stand with me'. Sometimes they can be very nice people anyway, but their attitude seem to put them in trouble time and time again. Its just that they are short tempered and cannot control their feelings even if they simply jump to conclusions and not able to see further then the current situation, which often is not what it seems. These people (generally speaking) seem to be avoided by many and as you rightly said, ending up very lonely, for the discomfort they cause and negative environment they create. 

We have a saying locally 'From the gut to the mouth'. On the other hand when people admit that they are not in a position to comment or discuss a subject through lack of knowledge, they present it in a civil and trusted manner, they are much more adhered too, and real catalysts for change (for the better) because of how they present their arguments (we have another saying that with a good word you can bring the mouse out of his hideout). Free speech has absolutely nothing to do with being diplomatically correct. When people are in higher positions and are leaders the implications are far greater then on street level.

----------


## Maleth

> My feelings about free speech can be understood best in the light of the following two quotes:
> 
> In America, I'd be classified as a "first amendment absolutist", *unless and until, as I said, the speech is used to incite violence or the overthrow of the government.* I believe, also, that in allowing such ideas to be expressed, we have the opportunity to defeat them by showing how illogical and stupid they are. If you push it all underground, it will just grow.


This might be the crux of the matter. While I do not think there are any serious studies on the matter, it seems pretty obvious to me that certain styles and attitudes in the name of not being diplomatically correct (especially by leaders and people in high positions) will naturally lead to violence. I am not sure how can anyone think otherwise. I very much associate non political correctness by an exercise to verbally (intentionally) hurt people (whatever instant satisfaction in might bring about). It simply cannot generate an overall positive reaction. If it does it would be great to have a few examples of how it works for the best. 

Personally I am not immune to not being diplomatically correct. I use it as a very last resort in cases of bully like aggressive, abuse, selfish attitudes that need to be shocked down to earth. People who are not interested in being treated good and being spoken in the right manner. But that is a very last resort and from my experience it does not happen often. Being diplomatically correct in any situation usually does the trick and does not need to be a spontaneous reaction for every situation. Far from it.

----------


## Tomenable

> The poor darlings have to be shielded from not only every hurtful comment but every opinion contrary to their own.


*Welcome to the 21st century, the "triggering" century:* :37:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tsgc0k594Js

----------


## Twilight

> *Welcome to the 21st century, the "triggering" century:* :37:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tsgc0k594Js


I'm a Millennial myself and I've never seen such protest O.O. Sure there are protest about Police brutality but I'm starting to learn the concept of "Safe spaces", I've only seen one Trump Poster up close but Bernie Sanders posters and logos all the time. :/

----------


## bicicleur

Political correctness has nothing to do with diplomacy.
It is about people with some authority who don't want to discuss other opinions and avoid them by labelling them as 'incorrect'.
It is pure indoctrination.

----------


## bicicleur

if this is how the future of America is educated, then we're all pretty ****** up

----------


## Twilight

> if this is how the future of America is educated, then we're all pretty ****** up


I hope not, I'm still not sure what the Teacher did wrong. :/

----------


## Fire Haired14

IMO, we need political correctness more than we don't. Racist jokes or references, such as all Italian Americans are mobsters(there are many that are worse), shouldn't usually be seen as ok and it wasn't until political correctness that people cracked down on that. There is a such thing as microagressions, racial profiling, and white privilege. Political correctness points out the minor social discrimination issues we have that others rarely do. The people who proclaim political correctness however tend to exaggerate and be radical leftist as you guys have explained. There's good and bad.

I have a sense people are waking up to the radical leftist side of Social Justice Warriors and going against it. If my generation doesn't change their views on it, the radical side of Social Justice Warriors will be in power everywhere in the western world in a few decades.

----------


## Angela

Believe me, if someone insults Italian-Americans in my presence they get an ear full, even if it's considered bad form. A lot of Italian-Americans usually don't give a damn, including my husband, who thinks it's funny. (His usual response to the above is, hey listen, we're better at everything.) The trading of "ethnic" humor here is something I just don't get. I don't think it's ok to say the Irish are all alcoholics (i.e. an Irish meal-a potato and a six pack), or Poles are all stupid (all the light bulb jokes and similar ad infinitum), or the French are cowards, and on and on.

It's more than the fact that it's hurtful to members of the groups involved; it's also that stupidity, the inability to think complexly and subtly, just irritates the hell out of me. 

That doesn't mean, though, that if I were a student at a university I would run to the administration and have anyone who said such a thing kicked out or even told to stay a certain distance from me so that I could have a "safe" space. If he lived next door to me and put posters about it all over, and left me leaflets constantly, he'd be harassing me, and that's a different issue, and actionable. 

This has just gone overboard, and in addition people are muddling private vs public rights.

Mostly, what is going on, as Bicicleur pointed out, is that sixties and seventies radicals took over the professorships and the administration of colleges and universities, and have been indoctrinating students ever since. Now the chickens have come home to roost. It has gotten to the point where opposite view points and ideologies can't be taught* even* if it is to show their fallacies. So, in an example given above, "The Merchant of Venice" can't be taught because it presents a stereotypical view of Jews, even though the play contains the most impassioned plea for consideration of Jews as normal human beings of absolutely anything written until the 20th century. The movie "Gone with the Wind" shouldn't be shown because the slaves are depicted as childish or stupid, or even if not that, as accepting of their situation. It never occurs to these simpletons that a lot of slaves, if they were in a relatively decent situation, probably did accept it. For goodness sakes , kidnapped and imprisoned women learn to accept it. Also, are people really supposed to be so stupid that they can't recognize that art reflects its times? 

In the Yale situation above, the entire controversy erupted because a Yale professor sent out an e-mail that students should not see "*Halloween costumes*" as micro-aggressions or "cultural appropriations". 
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ion/?tid=a_inl

It's absolutely unbelievable. I guess my husband and his buddies, who absolutely brought down the house at a big Halloween bash by dressing up *and singing* as the Supremes(well, they told him to mouth it!), would get arrested in today's climate, even though it was meant as a humorous homage. Next they're going to ban having a sense of humor.

----------


## Twilight

> Believe me, if someone insults Italian-Americans in my presence they get an ear full, even if it's considered bad form. A lot of Italian-Americans usually don't give a damn, including my husband, who thinks it's funny. (His usual response to the above is, hey listen, we're better at everything.) The trading of "ethnic" humor here is something I just don't get. I don't think it's ok to say the Irish are all alcoholics (i.e. an Irish meal-a potato and a six pack), or Poles are all stupid (all the light bulb jokes and similar ad infinitum), or the French are cowards, and on and on.
> 
> It's more than the fact that it's hurtful to members of the groups involved; it's also that stupidity, the inability to think complexly and subtly, just irritates the hell out of me. 
> 
> That doesn't mean, though, that if I were a student at a university I would run to the administration and have anyone who said such a thing kicked out or even told to stay a certain distance from me so that I could have a "safe" space. If he lived next door to me and put posters about it all over, and left me leaflets constantly, he'd be harassing me, and that's a different issue, and actionable. 
> 
> This has just gone overboard, and in addition people are muddling private vs public rights.
> 
> Mostly, what is going on, as Bicicleur pointed out, is that sixties and seventies radicals took over the professorships and the administration of colleges and universities, and have been indoctrinating students ever since. Now the chickens have come home to roost. It has gotten to the point where opposite view points and ideologies can't be taught* even* if it is to show their fallacies. So, in an example given above, "The Merchant of Venice" can't be taught because it presents a stereotypical view of Jews, even though the play contains the most impassioned plea for consideration of Jews as normal human beings of absolutely anything written until the 20th century. The movie "Gone with the Wind" shouldn't be shown because the slaves are depicted as childish or stupid, or even if not that, as accepting of their situation. It never occurs to these simpletons that a lot of slaves, if they were in a relatively decent situation, probably did accept it. For goodness sakes , kidnapped and imprisoned women learn to accept it. Also, are people really supposed to be so stupid that they can't recognize that art reflects its times? 
> ...


I hope this incident at Yale doesn't create a stereotype for Millenials. I can't even believe an African American wOman was barred from a fraternity party over a costume. :/

----------


## srdceleva

> Austrians also share the German trauma and shame about their Nazi past, and are therefore more careful than other Europeans about not sounding racist. I don't know how you can be sure that so many Austrians found the naked parade repulsive. German speakers are generally very open-minded and tolerant when it comes to nudity. They don't mind going to the sauna completely naked, for instance. They don't have the same squeamishness about nudity and privacy as the more reserved Brits and Belgians, and also lack the puritanical streak found among many Christian communities in the USA. When I was in Japan, I was shocked that the Japanese all went naked in communal hot spring pools, but when we discussed those issue on an expat forum, German speakers couldn't even understand what the problem was with that. For them nudity is seen as completely natural, and not shameful or distasteful.


Could be that they are more comfortable with nudity here, seemed like everyone around me though looked quite adverse to seeing all of these naked men on bikes but no one said a word. Still I remeber my serbian co worker commenting once on all the nudity here and how Germans and austrians love to swim nude, he thought they were crazy. As an American I thought all europeans were cooler with nudity but it seems to be particular to the german speaking countries now that Im here. Very interesting how on one hand the most uptight and reserved people suddenly can be naked and totally comfortable with it. Austrians and Germans seem to be a people of extremes in many ways

----------


## Tomenable

> This is also tied to all this nonsense about "safe spaces" on campus. The poor darlings have to be shielded from not only every hurtful comment but every opinion contrary to their own.
> 
> If this isn't reversed western civilization is in huge trouble, imo.
> 
> See:
> http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...campus/497387/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Axyy2RZ7RoA

----------


## firetown

> as an american living in Austria, i cant really agree with that. I find central europeans to be more direct about daily things, for example if someone makes a mistake in a food order, austrians will not hesitate to correct the waiter or whoever where as americans or brits may just let it slide. However, when it Comes to being politically correct, all europeans are very afraid of saying anything that seems intolerant or not liberal. Germans and austrians are even more extreme than the english i would say with political correctness Ive literally seen parades of naked People in vienna, and though the vast majority of regular People find it repulsive, almost no one says anything as they dont want to seem íntolerant.


I am not sure if nudity is the right example, but Germans and Austrians for sure are living a life behind the curtain of racism as racist tendencies have been more than exposed in the past century. I remember a situation where a German official told a friend of mine that a new procedure registering foreigners and requiring additional documentation was for no specific reason. My friend said "Right, just a coincidence aligning with the timing of the refugee related arguments?" ... silence.
My friend: "I guess you are not allowed to talk about it".
The official: "I am not even allowed to think about it". 

At least in America you can challenge political correctness. In Germany and Austria, when it comes to the topic of anything relating to ethnicity or foreign nationals, you can actually do time in prison for saying something that is made to be illegal saying it, as lawmakers considered making free speech illegal was the only "solution" to ensure that the 3rd Reich will not repeat itself.

----------

