# Humanities & Anthropology > History & Civilisations >  Who were the greatest Poles in history ?

## Maciamo

This thread is intended to complement the greatest Polish contributions of the world. Instead of contributions, we will now be voting for individuals, regardless of whether their achievements had an impact on the rest of the world or just in their country or region. They can be national heroes, great athletes, artists, scientists, or politicians that shaped the country's identity and history.

Before opening the poll I would like to have as many candidates as possible. I will choose a maximum of 20 for the poll. Here are those that have already been mentioned in the thread about greatest contributions.


- Mikołaj Kopernik (Nicolaus Copernicus)
- King Jan III Sobieski
- Ignacy Domeyko
- Fryderyk Franciszek Chopin
- Ignacy Łukasiewicz
- Henryk Sienkiewicz
- Ludwik Zamenhof
- Maria Salomea Skłodowsk (Marie Curie)
- Jan Lukasiewicz
- Bronisław Malinowski
- Marian Rejewski
- Wiaslawa Szymborska

I personally hesitate between Marie Curie, Nicolaus Copernicus and Bronisław Malinowski, although if I had to choose I'd go with Curie since her achievements were more important for humanity.

----------


## Bahadir

Mikołaj Kopernik (although judging by haplogroup (R1b), he's father was probably a German).

----------


## himagain

Kopernik, truly a great mathematician, but while I give him his due, Chopin affects me at a deeper aesthetic level, and transports me to greater personal fulfillment than Kopernik.

----------


## Maciamo

Someone on Facebook also suggested Tadeusz Kościuszko.

----------


## Cimmerianbloke

Shouldn't Pope John Paul II be on this list? I've been a few times to Poland and he is everywhere. History will probably remember him as a key character of the 20th Century. From a Polish point of view, Adam Mieckiewicz and Josef Pilsudski are important figures, both have statues in every major city.

----------


## Dagne

To me personally Pope John Paul II is at the top of the list.

----------


## himagain

How about Lech Walesa who had great organizing skills? He must deserve credit as being a notable Polish figure.

----------


## Maciamo

> Shouldn't Pope John Paul II be on this list? I've been a few times to Poland and he is everywhere. History will probably remember him as a key character of the 20th Century.


In my eyes he is one of the great criminals of the 20th century, along with Hitler, Stalin and Mao. It may not look obvious at first (to say the least), but Pope John Paul II's stance against artificial birth control, including the use of condoms, caused millions of death and plenty of suffering around the (Catholic) world. By having the Catholic Church prohibit the use of condoms, he contributed to the spread of AIDS, especially in the developing Catholic world, notably the southern half of Africa, but also in Latin America. 

The lack of artificial birth control effectively caused a demographic surge in all these countries which is the main reason why world poverty increased in absolute numbers in the last 30 years (again, mostly in the Catholic world, since poverty decreased in most of Asia during that period). 

There are now over 33 million people living with AIDS worldwide, and a staggering 70% of them live in Catholic Africa. Between 2 and 4 million people die of AIDS every year. So far, there has been 25 million deaths and 14 million orphaned children in southern Africa alone. Pope John Paul II is responsible in great part for most of these deaths. That makes him a far worse person than Hitler, a harbinger of disease, death and desperation. What's so great about that ?

----------


## LeBrok

Maciamo, you overestimated influence of pope and church doctrine on use of contraceptives. The biggest counterargument is Poland, the most catholic country in Europe and maybe in the world, and where love of JP II is still the strongest. The use of birth control is on same scale as in most western countries, and is the main cause of shrinking population.

----------


## Maciamo

> Maciamo, you overestimated influence of pope and church doctrine on use of contraceptives. The biggest counterargument is Poland, the most catholic country in Europe and maybe in the world, and where love of JP II is still the strongest. The use of birth control is on same scale as in most western countries, and is the main cause of shrinking population.


The Polish population is far better educated than the African one. The biggest influence of the Catholic Church is among the uneducated classes, therefore mostly in Africa. Most European Catholics are only Catholic in name or by tradition and do not pay much attention to the Pope's guidelines. But African countries still have the religious fervour Europeans had a century ago (or even 50 years ago).

----------


## Cimmerianbloke

Maciamo, I agree with Lebrok that your tirade is due to your exacerbated anti-clericalism. Putting JPII on the list with the most murderous souls of the 20th century is giving him too much credit. As for Africans and AIDS, the impact of contraception is nothing but negligible, as in the poorest areas you refer to, there is no contraception available, and would there been, people would rather spend the little they have on food. I am no friend of the papacy myself but I have a deep respect for Wojtyla the man, who made a difference in many people's life, but especially in Poland and in Ireland as I have personally witnessed. Above his role as a church leader, he will also pass in history as the man who resisted communism and was left standing when the USSR fell apart.

----------


## Maciamo

It has been brought to my attention that Copernicus was an ethnic German, not Pole, and that he spent all his life in German Prussia. His ancestry seems to be more German than anything else. He also registered himself in the _Matricula Nobilissimi Germanorum Collegii_ during his short stay at Bologna University.

His surname is not obviously German or Polish, but his Y-DNA (R1b) makes its more likely to be German. His mother's name, Watzenrode, was undeniably German.

----------


## Tomenable

This guy deserves some credit too, I knew he was a famous explorer, but only recently I learned about his humanitarian contributions. It is estimated that he saved as many as 200,000 Irish lives during the Great Irish Famine, risking his own life in the process:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pawe%C5%82_Strzelecki

"(...) Towards the end of 1846, the Great Irish Famine was under way and the British Relief Association formed with the sum of £500,000 subscribed for the relief of the sufferers. Strzelecki was appointed an agent of the Association to superintend the distribution of supplies in County Sligo, County Mayo and County Donegal. He devoted himself to his task with success, though he was for a time incapacitated by famine fever. In 1847 and 1848 he continued his work in Dublin as sole agent for the Association. In recognition of his services he was made a Companion of the Order of the Bath (CB) in November 1848. He helped impoverished Irish families to seek new lives in Australia. *It has been estimated that the various works in which he was involved saved 200,000 Irish lives.* (There is a commemorative plaque dedicated to him on Sackville Place, Dublin[12]). He was also active in helping injured soldiers during the Crimean War, being personally acquainted with Florence Nightingale. Strzelecki arrived back to London in 1849, where he was made a fellow of the Royal Geographical Society and was awarded its gold medal for "exploration in the south eastern portion of Australia". The Society still displays his huge geological map of New South Wales and Tasmania for public viewing. He was also made a fellow of the Royal Society, having gained widespread recognition as an explorer as well as a philanthropist. (...)"

Population density in Ireland in 1841, 1936, 2002:

​https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/com...841_1936_2002/

----------


## Rethel

> - Wiaslawa Szymborska







> I personally hesitate between Marie Curie, Nicolaus Copernicus and Bronisław Malinowski, although if I had to choose I'd go with Curie since her achievements were more important for humanity.


Skłodowska was a mazowian Prusess.
Copernicus probably a German, but it is not sure.

----------


## Rethel

> It has been brought to my attention that Copernicus was an ethnic German,


Not, it is not known, as his pedigree is not fully known, and
even in the proposed origin place it is not clear who was who.




> not Pole, and that he spent all his life in German Prussia.


It is not true also.
1. There was no such thing as "german Prussia", but even if, then
2. he lived in "polish prussia" - both ethnically and politically.




> His ancestry seems to be more German than anything else.


As I said, it is not surely know, so how can you say "that was more german than anhthing else"?
To know, if was "more than" you would have to have full knowledge or be a seer. Have you or are you?




> He also registered himself in the _Matricula Nobilissimi Germanorum Collegii_ during his short stay at Bologna University.
> 
> His surname is not obviously German or Polish, but his Y-DNA (R1b) makes its more likely to be German. His mother's name, Watzenrode, was undeniably German.


It doesn't matter.
The same you can say other wise, and what?

----------


## Rethel

> In my eyes he is one of the great criminals of the 20th century, along with Hitler, Stalin and Mao. It may not look obvious at first (to say the least), but Pope John Paul II's stance against artificial birth control, including the use of condoms, caused millions of death and plenty of suffering around the (Catholic) world. By having the Catholic Church prohibit the use of condoms, he contributed to the spread of AIDS, especially in the developing Catholic world, notably the southern half of Africa, but also in Latin America.


You just showed finally, that you are not only evil (as you promote the evolution, suport perverts aso) but totaly wicked. I am not going to defend JP2 as he was probably the worst pope in history until Francis, but this what you said shows how twisted and corrupted is your soul. There are other 100% sure methods to avoid AIDS as for example not making sex with such people. Even if he would allowed to use condoms, people who are whoremongers, would not use them anyway, especially in Africa, where they believe in some pagan stuff, that sex without condom can cure AIDS. So, the role of the pope is none here. Especially, that he promoted alongside the christian moral teaching about marriage and faithfullness which can protect anyone from having AIDS if he follows it. So, if you really think as you wrote, you are totaly wicked person. Nothing strange, that your forum is leading by other godless corrupted people like LeBrok and Angela, who literally deeply hate everything and anyone what is good, christian, or even traditional in secular way, supporting every evil thing, every pervertism, every communistic view-point. Btw, the equalization of the ban on condoms with your atheistic leftist genocidal commarades shows also how stupid and idiotic you and other atheists are. Just lack of words for such idiocy...

JP2 was a great heretic and apostate, I do not even support his teaching on condoms, but this what he taught about condoms was not bad - but you by saying what you said, showed, how greatly depravated person you are, how evil, stupid and thoughtless. Just deeply wicked. As any atheist finally shows that he is. This is not surrprizing for me - not any longer. Outside: tolerant, nice and funny, but inside: full of corruption, wickedness and evil thoughts, supporting every ungodly evil practice and criticizing every good godly way.

Apage Satanas!

----------


## Tomenable

As for Copernicus I think it matters more that he was a loyal Polish patriot, than his origins. His father was born in Cracow (Poland's capital city) and his mother was from Toruń (Thorn), which used to be part of the Teutonic Order's state but only until 1454. When he was born (1473) it was already part of Poland.

At the University of Bologna there was no Polish Natio, so he registered in German Natio as this was his mother's culture. Also if I'm not mistaken German Natio was not only from Germans but pretty much from anyone coming from Central Europe.

If we go by ethnicity then you could also argue, that many "famous Germans" like Kant or Nietzsche were not German:

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...l=1#post552555

On GEDmatch, Kant would most likely plot with modern Lithuanians and Latvians rather than with Germans. 

As for Copernicus, R1b alone means nothing, this is the 2nd most common haplogroup in Poland after R1a (which is only carried by half of Poles). I expected I would be R1a (based on my surname) and yet against all odds I got R1b and a rare subclade at that. But my subclade is not German, although it might be of recent Western European origin (we will see after I get my BigY results). To really be sure whether Copernicus had a lineage originating from Germany, Poland, or elsewhere, you would need to test his Y-DNA with a next generation sequencing test such as BigY, which can explore deep subclades:

https://isogg.org/wiki/Y-DNA_next_generation_sequencing

Also autosomal DNA results of Copernicus would be interesting to see. I doubt he would plot with West Germans if we uploaded his raw data on GEDmatch. Rather, he would be close to West Slavs and East Germans. His mother would likely plot with East Germans.

Here is an interesting and recent (2015) read in English about his purported grave and DNA:

http://www.cyfronet.krakow.pl/~n1kok...stery-2015.pdf

----------

