# Humanities & Anthropology > History & Civilisations >  Greatest civilization?

## Zauriel

Which civilization do you think is the greatest? I'm torn between Greek, Chinese and Roman civilizations, because they all have a very important part in world history.

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## Maciamo

When you say Chinese civilisation, do you mean ancient Chinese only ? It would make more sense as the other are all ancient and you didn't choose medieval civilisations like the Arabs, Aztecs or Incas. But what about ancient India ?

I would consider Greece and Rome as the same civilisation, given their proximity, almost identical religion and numerous exchanges (upper-class Romans used to study in Greece and speak Greek as well as Latin).

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## Zauriel

Yes, I meant ancient Chinese.

I forgot about Ancient India and Aztec civilization. It seems I also forgot about Persian and Hebrew Civilizations.

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## Maciamo

I have modified that. Shall I merge Greeks with Romans to make Greco-Roman civilisation ?

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## Zauriel

Yeah, I guess so. Thanks anyway.

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## Maciamo

And my vote goes to the Greco-Roman civilisation.  :Smiling:

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## No-name

It isn't ancient, but I vote for the modern global civilization. It is hard to compare meso American to Egyptian, Greco-Roman to Indus River Valley, Mesopotamian to Chinese... What gets points and what criterion are we using? I like the aesthetics of Japanese culture, but much of it is not all that ancient. On the other hand great civilizations in the Americas and Africa... kind of died out and left only ruins behind. (What legacy does the ancient Zimbabwe or Maya culture leave to us...) And simply because an ancient society never left great philosophy or literature, or never had technology... does that score them lower?

Right here, right now- there is no other place I'd rather be.
Right here, right now- watching the world wake up from history.

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## Mitsuo

Greco-Roman Here.

I am very impressed with them. Not to say that I'm not with the others, but more so with the Greco-Roman.

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## Maciamo

> It isn't ancient, but I vote for the modern global civilization. It is hard to compare meso American to Egyptian, Greco-Roman to Indus River Valley, Mesopotamian to Chinese...


I don't think that was the point of the poll to choose "modern global civilization" when it's clearly about specific ancient cvilisations. Therefore I removed the option "other", as there are no real other ancient civilisations that we know of (btw, "ancient" means until about the 5th or 6th century CE). Even Japanese civilisation start in medieaval times, like the Maya.

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## No-name

I'm not certain where your definition of "ancient" comes from. Most scholars (according to my extensive "Google" scholarship :) ) seem to include the now extinct new world civilizations and the Ainu and older Japanese civilization. And there are dozens of other ancient civilizations apart from the ones you listed. I would include the Anasazi, Maya, Inca, Aztec, Olmec, Toltec, Miami, Red Paint, Clovis, (and 50 other new world civilizations) Mali, Songhai, Sudan, Kush, Axumite, (and a few other African Civilizations) Assyria, Sumerian, Mitani, Uratha, Babylonia, Persia, Mede (as all separate entities), There is a list at the bottom of this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_history

And although I don't mind leaving the criterion open, but the discussion of how you determine or measure "greatest" is definitely intriguing.

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## Maciamo

Well, as an amateur historian who almost became a professional historian, Ancient Times finish at the same time everywhere and that corresponds roughly to the fall of the Roman Empire in Europe, North Africa and the Middle East, the fall of the Gupta Empire in India. In other words "Medieval Times" by Western standard (mine) corresponds to the rise of Islam, the beginning of the Sui and Tang dynasties in China, the Yamato and Nara periods in Japan, of the decline of the Classic Maya period.

Sorry, I mistook when I said Maya above, so I have added it. There is little need including the smaller American and Middle Eastern civilisation in a poll for the greatest one... Anyway, I think it is better to avoid confusion by adding to many small civs or an option "Other", as people like you might think of later civilisations .

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## monrepo

The Ancient Greek civilization  :Smiling:

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## Silverbackman

What about Teotihuacan civilization? It was one of the largest Mezo-American civilizations.

As for my pic, I can't really say. Probably a tie between Chinese, Greco-Roman, and Indian civilization.

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## Maciamo

> What about Teotihuacan civilization? It was one of the largest Mezo-American civilizations.


Teotihuacan is a city. It belonged to the Maya-Mixtec-Aztec civilisation. So you could vote for Maya if you want to vote for them.

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## MikawaObasan

The reconstruction of the Roman Empire was roughly the size of today's European Union. I wonder if they would be willing to accept Canada into the EU if we wanted to. I want to have Canada in.

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## Sukotto

What about "other"?

How about the communities set up during the Spanish Civil War?
Ha!
Actually, I know little about that time/place, except that like all other
attempts at similar situations this too had been smashed by the outside and not been able to exist or fall on its own merits.

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## mygger

Chinese civilization were greatest.

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## Maciamo

> Chinese civilization were greatest.


Would you care to explain why you think so ? That would be more interesting for the discussion.  :Satisfied:

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## Ua'Ronain

I also voted for Greco-Roman civilization for many of the reasons stated here; when I think of western civilization almost all of it stems from the Greeks.

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## MOHAMMEd21

I`ll say the egyptien one
not because I`m egyptien but cause it was the first cilivization ever and other cilivizations imitated it

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## Maciamo

> I`ll say the egyptien one
> not because I`m egyptien but cause it was the first cilivization ever and other cilivizations imitated it


That's not true. The Mesopotamian, Greek, Kurgan, Indus and Chinese civilizations all started around the same time as the Egyptian one, if not earlier. 

It could be argued that the Western European Megalithic civilization also started earlier than the Egyptian one as some megaliths are older than the first pyramids. The oldest megaliths are 7000 years old. The Predynastic Period of ancient Egypt started 5000 years ago. 

It all depends on what you call "civilization". Is a primitive Neolithic agricultural society without cities and without a state a civilization ? I don't think so.

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## MOHAMMEd21

> That's not true. The Mesopotamian, Greek, Kurgan, Indus and Chinese civilizations all started around the same time as the Egyptian one, if not earlier. 
> 
> It could be argued that the Western European Megalithic civilization also started earlier than the Egyptian one as some megaliths are older than the first pyramids. The oldest megaliths are 7000 years old. The Predynastic Period of ancient Egypt started 5000 years ago. 
> 
> It all depends on what you call "civilization". Is a primitive Neolithic agricultural society without cities and without a state a civilization ? I don't think so.


the egyptien civilization was exist before the discovery of writing
and if we tlak about the civilization Prehistoric you will see the badery and fayome civilizations
now egyptologist say that egyptiens discovered the Agriculture 12500 B.c
and when egypt unified in the first time about 4400B.c egypt was reached along way with civilization 
Now we are in the year 6227 in the egyptien years and that`s means that ancient eyptiens discovered the Solar calendar 6227 years ago
and to discover that you need too much knowldage and that`s means the the civiliaztion was earlier .

all the europien civilizations were mainly taked from greece and everybody know that greeks get it from Egypt

there was american writer called martine palner who said that all the greece civilization is pharaonic and half of the language is egyptien
do you know that the world desert in egyptien mean the red land or the yello land and we said it "deshert" that`s for example
also you can read Legacy of Egypt to w. dawson to know how much the greece took from us
and for sur you red the book _Stolen Legacy to_ George G. M. James

the eastern civilization like indian or chiness starte too early I`ll not dnay that but it didn`t effect in the human civilization march (little effects)

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## rms2

> And my vote goes to the Greco-Roman civilisation.


I agree.

The Egyptians had a great civilization. The Mesopotamians had a great civilization.

But first in time is not necessarily best.  :Good Job:

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## Maciamo

> the egyptien civilization was exist before the discovery of writing


Many civilizations did. But the first writing system originated in Mesopotamia, not in Egypt. Europe may also have predated Egypt for early writing, with the Vinča symbols (in South-East Europe) going back to 8,000 years ago.

The oldest pyramids known on earth are not those of Egypt, but those of Visočica hill (or Grad hill) in the Bosnia. Some archaeologists estimated that they could be up to 14,000 years old, although the actual date is probably closer to 9,000 years old.




> Now we are in the year 6227 in the egyptien years and that`s means that ancient eyptiens discovered the Solar calendar 6227 years ago
> and to discover that you need too much knowldage and that`s means the the civiliaztion was earlier .


Stone circles like in Stonehenge were also used as calendars. Although the stone version is "only" 5,000 years old (like the Pyramids of Giza), there is evidence of an earlier site going back to 10,000 years ago.




> all the europien civilizations were mainly taked from greece and everybody know that greeks get it from Egypt


Not Western European Megalithic civilizations.




> there was american writer called martine palner who said that all the greece civilization is pharaonic and half of the language is egyptien


That's possible in the case of pre-Mycaenian Egypt. Y-DNA has indeed confirmed a high presence of haplogroup E1b1b in Greece stemming from Egypt.

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## Radegast

Roman, without Greek(Vizantia), because Ellins were successor of Roman and have not thought up nothing. And they were patinet successor, because they had not create a new directions in art and philosopher idea by they fall.
But, of course, old Greek, were great civilizations.

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## Canek

the maya civilization.

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## Vallicanus

> Roman, without Greek(Vizantia), because Ellins were successor of Roman and have not thought up nothing. And they were patinet successor, because they had not create a new directions in art and philosopher idea by they fall.
> But, of course, old Greek, were great civilizations.


 
The ancient Greeks and Etruscans provided Rome with nearly all its culture.

As for the Byzantines you despise, they, as the Eastern Roman Empire, outlasted the Western Roman Empire by a thousand years.

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## Antigone

Plus it was the Greek scholars with their texts who migrated into Italy after the fall of Constantinople who contributed a large part in the development of what was to become the Renaissance movement.

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## iapetoc

> Roman, without Greek(Vizantia), because Ellins were successor of Roman and have not thought up nothing. And they were patinet successor, because they had not create a new directions in art and philosopher idea by they fall.
> But, of course, old Greek, were great civilizations.


well for your information there is an ancient report that about 600 BC Romans visited Sparta and created a kind of constitution according Lakonian state, Greeks is the case of early romans the middle and Byzantium is the 3rd period of Greco-Roman,
while in West where Roman empire could not stand new dreamers of Romans build empires like Romans but based in another Nations etc,
Greeks and roman are not connected before 200-100 BC, after is Greco-roman mostly in East,
in west it is a little different.

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## Zoey

> the egyptien civilization was exist before the discovery of writing
> and if we tlak about the civilization Prehistoric you will see the badery and fayome civilizations
> now egyptologist say that egyptiens discovered the Agriculture 12500 B.c
> and when egypt unified in the first time about 4400B.c egypt was reached along way with civilization 
> Now we are in the year 6227 in the egyptien years and that`s means that ancient eyptiens discovered the Solar calendar 6227 years ago
> and to discover that you need too much knowldage and that`s means the the civiliaztion was earlier .
> 
> all the europien civilizations were mainly taked from greece and everybody know that greeks get it from Egypt
> 
> ...


What you forget to say is: the original Egyptian were Greek, and as you know that the official language of Egypt was Coptic before the Arabic, as you see the Coptic language is written with Greek Alphabet.

For your information, the queen Cleopatra was Greek from the Aegean, read well your history before jumping over all.

In my opinion the Greek civilization, the Mesopotamian civilization (the Assyrian) are the greatest.

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## barbarian

"Which civilization had the first system of law? The first formal educational system? The first tax cut? The first love song? The answers were found in excavations of ancient Sumer, a society so developed, resourceful, and enterprising that it, in a sense, created history. The book presents a cross section of the Sumerian "firsts" in all the major fields of human endeavor, including government and politics, education and literature, philosophy and ethics, law and justice, agriculture and medicine, even love and family.

_History Begins at Sumer_ is the classic account of the achievements of the Sumerians, who lived in what is now southern Iraq during the third millennium B.C. They were the developers of the cuneiform system of writing, perhaps their greatest contribution to civilization, which allowed laws and literature to be recorded for the first time."


*History Begins at Sumer: Thirty-Nine Firsts in Recorded History* 

by Samuel Noah Kramer


My votes goes to Mesopotamian civilization. although today's world built on *greco-european* civilization. the first steps of everything starts here (religion, writing, agriculture etc.)

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## roamtheworld

I do not think it to be fair to declare one civilization as the greatest in history. Every civilization and in fact every human being who ever sat foot on earth had an important role to play in human evolution. Every civilization played important part and contributed invaluable additions all along to bring us to the stage where we are today.

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## Barrister

> I`ll say the egyptien one
> not because I`m egyptien but cause it was the first cilivization ever and other cilivizations imitated it


How do Egyptians explain the current state of their civilisation? If the burden lies on the Egyptian people, how did you lose everything that made you great? If the blame lies on external forces, clearly, you are to rightly commend them for having such influence over everything you do. Where did things go wrong? I know about a half dozen Egyptians...when it's convenient they identify as Arabs, when it's not so convenient they distance themselves from Arabs and are quick to point out clear distinctions between themselves and Arabs, often through their ancient glory. I know one Egyptian girl in particular, telling me about her sister who married someone from a special forces team called "Thunderbolt". I didn't mean to burst her bubble, but i had to tell her that Thunderbolt suckles at the mammary gland of America, like the entire egyptian armed forces.

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## Keegah

I think he means Ancient Egyptian culture, Barrister. Seeing as to how that's what the poll is actually asking. With maybe the exception of Hebrew, Chinese and Indian culture, every nation represented on that poll is doing a lot worse today than they did in ancient times.

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## LeBrok

Well, some of the cultures/civilizations are not dominant in their geographical areas anymore, and that might be painful to many, but this is just from overdose of pride. 
It doesn't mean they are doing worse than before. They all have more citizens by power of ten, and comparing to ancient standard of living, they all doing much better now. The mortality is much lower, they have more food and much better variety. They have bigger houses, with TV and cellphones, and many have cars or bikes and travel way beyond their villages. Unheard off way back. The list is much longer, but I hope I made my point already.

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## Keegah

Fair enough. What I really meant is that most of those cultures aren't as powerful/influential as they were during their respective hey days, but I did word it rather poorly. Thanks for clarifying that.

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## LeBrok

I knew what you meant, I just needed to point the little things that improved. :)

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## Artech

All listed ancient civilizations take a significant place in human history. There are different acceptance criteria for the assessment of which civilization is the greatest. 
Since this is European forum, for me is an interesting effect of an ancient civilization that left such a strong influence up to the present day in this region which is reflected through the symbols present in front of the European Parliament and on the European coins.
It is the goddess of Mesopotamia or ancient Greece. To be honest, all the symbolism I do not know, but it is obvious that it is important for all of us in Europa.

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## Potentia

Greco-Roman. It is pretty much the foundation of the Western World. However! All of those civilizations are important to the development of our cultures.

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## kyrani99

> Roman, without Greek(Vizantia), because Ellins were successor of Roman and have not thought up nothing. And they were patinet successor, because they had not create a new directions in art and philosopher idea by they fall.
> But, of course, old Greek, were great civilizations.


You got it round the wrong way. Greeks are superior to the Romans by a long, long long way. And the Romans polluted and corrupted everything they copied.

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## DuPidh

> You got it round the wrong way. Greeks are superior to the Romans by a long, long long way. And the Romans polluted and corrupted everything they copied.


Even though I am by no mean a Greek fan, since I have some ALB heritage, I have to agree with you at this point. There is no civilization of ancient times, great as the Greek one! I have my reasons to think this way.
1) Greeks perfected the maritime knowledge that they got from Arabs ( I mean shipbuilding and navigation). Chinese, Indians, and all others that you call civilizations learned 4000 years after Greeks what sea navigation was.
2) Greeks put strong foundations in arts, architecture, foundation that still exist today. What Chinese, Indians and others did? Nothing.
3) Greeks started what was a genuine science which as time went by grew in what it is today.. What others did? Nothing.
Greeks taught the west how to write. Nobody wants to learn how the Indians and Chinese write
Roman civilization is a continuation of Greek one. Of course Romans pushed what was Greek at new heights, but they had the foundations build by others.(Greeks)
Not to confuse modern Greeks with Ancient ones. Modern Greeks are hybrids with Turks, so their intellectual level is corrupted with Turks and other inputs that diluted the power and the greatness of the ancient. Modern Greeks have the moral right to be called the hairs of that ancient civilization but make no mistake, they are not the same. The `level of ineptitude and behavior of today Greeks, proves that beyond any doubts. Its the ancient Greeks that keeps alive the modern Greece. Had not been for them the west would happily called modern Greece as west Turkey.

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## DuPidh

> Which civilization do you think is the greatest? I'm torn between Greek, Chinese and Roman civilizations, because they all have a very important part in world history.


To help you reach a conclusion which ancient civilization is the greatest, answer this few questions;
1) Which civilization came up with the letters you are actually writing right now ? ( hint: a civilization in southern Europe)
2) Where did the literature ( comedy, tragedy, history, philosophy )started? (hint: a civilization in southern Europe)
3) Where proof based math and science started?(hint: A civilization in southern Europe)
4) If Chinese, Indian and others civilizations were great what do we inherit from them today?( hint: nothing)
I could have written more questions but I think these few are enough to have an Idea.

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## LeBrok

> To help you reach a conclusion which ancient civilization is the greatest, answer this few questions;
> 1) Which civilization came up with the letters you are actually writing right now ? ( hint: a civilization in southern Europe)


 Phoenicians. Greeks adopted their alphabet.



> 2) Where did the literature ( comedy, tragedy, history, philosophy )started? (hint: a civilization in southern Europe)


 We don't know where they had started but surly Greeks perfected them nicely.



> 3) Where proof based math and science started?(hint: A civilization in southern Europe)


Again Greeks perfected and organized these, though some math could have been Phoenician. After all they invented money.



> 4) If Chinese, Indian and others civilizations were great what do we inherit from them today?( hint: nothing)


 What about guns and canons for China, and many independent inventions (from the West) like clock, philosophy, schools, math, etc.
I think the mathematical numbers came from India. And I'm sure with them some basic math and geometry.

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## Angela

Not to take anything from the Greeks, but...

Isn't the Epic of Gilgamesh literature?

How about the Old Testament? History, fable, myth, folklore, poetry, love stories, you name it, and begun in the 7th century BC.

I could go on. 

"Ex Oriente Lux, Ex Occidente Lex"

Algebra came from India.

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## LeBrok

> How about the Old Testament? History, fable, myth, folklore, poetry, love stories, you name it, and begun in the 7th century BC.


[/QUOTE]
Not to mention Babylonian creative writing or law codex. Many biblical stories were copied from Babylonian literature, when Jews were enslaved there around 1,000 BC.

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## DuPidh

> Phoenicians. Greeks adopted their alphabet.
> We don't know where they had started but surly Greeks perfected them nicely.
> Again Greeks perfected and organized these, though some math could have been Phoenician. After all they invented money.
> What about guns and canons for China, and many independent inventions (from the West) like clock, philosophy, schools, math, etc.
> I think the mathematical numbers came from India. And I'm sure with them some basic math and geometry.



No gun came from China. The crude form of gun was invented in Europe. Gunpowder came from China. It was brought to Europe by Marco Polo. The invention of gunpowder was a random event than a scientific formula. With science that Archimedes was doing at his time I can get a PHD today and a professorship at MIT. 
Clock was invented in Europe. When Europeans introduced clocks in China they were shocked for a century. 
The first book about Geometry was written by a Greek named Euclid. It is still taught today his geometry since there are a number of other geometries in modern mathematics. Algebra is an Arab thing. Numbers also are Arab inventions. The only thing Indians brought were number 0. Since 0 is nothing, Europeans were not writing it as a symbol, and in today computing 0 is significant.
Yes ancient Greeks build some of their knowledge from their neighbors civilizations but they left significant fingerprints in many sciences and social sciences. Again, all you have to do is go and visit a museum and you will see something Greek.

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## DuPidh

> Not to take anything from the Greeks, but...
> 
> Isn't the Epic of Gilgamesh literature?
> 
> How about the Old Testament? History, fable, myth, folklore, poetry, love stories, you name it, and begun in the 7th century BC.
> 
> I could go on. 
> 
> "Ex Oriente Lux, Ex Occidente Lex"
> ...


Yes, there was literature in other civilizations but Greeks organised literature in science. There are different criteria in writing a tragedy, from a comedy, or a narrative. Aristotle put boundaries and definitions to different types. B

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## The_Lyonnist

The greatest civilization is... Lyon !

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## Mikedabest

All these civilizations were great, but the Greco-Roman one had the bigger impact on the current world

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