# Humanities & Anthropology > Anthropology & Ethnography > Guess the Ethnicity >  Can you guess my ethnicity/origin/Y-DNA?

## Sakattack

Hi there,

I attach some pics of mine, and I am curious to see what do you think about my nationality or ethnicity or even origin and Y-dna (tested but don't know the results yet) ONLY based on them. 

I'd be happy to get some replies. 

PS-hint: The flag doesn't say the truth. 

FB_IMG_1464390692356.jpg
received_10157000615210541.jpg
FB_IMG_1464296322801.jpg

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## Sakattack

Well, looks like I didn't manage to post the pics (tried though) and also can't edit my post. 

Some mode please either fix it or delete it. 

Thanks!

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## Alan

R1b or J2

Spanish or Greek

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## Sakattack

> R1b or J2
> 
> Spanish or Greek


Are my photos visible?  

Sent from my Robin

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## Angela

Yes, the photos are there.

Greek. Maybe J2 or E-V13, but yDna doesn't have a "look". I'm just going by the fact that I think you look Greek.

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## Sakattack

Great! I had some problems posting them (hadn't reach ten posts - no links allowed) but seems that I made it. 

Thanks for the replies, wish to get some more guesses :)

Sent from my Robin

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## Tomenable

If not Greek then maybe Spanish or Portuguese?

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## Sakattack

Well, that's surprising. 

3/3 correct answers isn't what I was expecting to be honest. 

I pass - of course - in Greece but I don't consider myself 100% typical in my country.

I have rather broad face with semi-prominent cheekbones, meso-bracycephalic and sort of strong eyebrow bridge. Light brown eyes also don't apply to the majority in Greece. 

When people try to guess where I come from, I've heard multiple guesses, including Spanish, Italian, Bulgarian, Yugoslavian, Turkish (especially in Austria where I live and there's a big Turkish minority). Once, an Armenian guy told me that I could pass easily in Armenia and considering my Armenoid (?) features that may be true. 

I have 100% Anatolian/Cappadocian ancestry as far as I know. My ancestors were Greek speaking people all the way back (I have records which date back to the 11th century).
Probably my great-great-grand ancestors were Greeks or (most likely) Hellenized people of the area. The Hellenisation of Cappadocia started with Alexander (left some troops also there) and was completed at around 6-7th century and the Greek speaking communities had been neighboring the Armenians (who denied to become hellenized, not even Greek Orthodox - sign of national identity) for a long period of time. 

I've tried to figure out who were these ancient people of Cappadocia, and I found that Hittites and Phrygians were the original inhabitants. 

My upcoming DNA results maybe throw some light on that. 

Sent from my Robin

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## Angela

> Well, that's surprising. 
> 
> 3/3 correct answers isn't what I was expecting to be honest. 
> 
> I pass - of course - in Greece but I don't consider myself 100% typical in my country.
> 
> I have rather broad face with semi-prominent cheekbones, meso-bracycephalic and sort of strong eyebrow bridge. Light brown eyes also don't apply to the majority in Greece. 
> 
> When people try to guess where I come from, I've heard multiple guesses, including Spanish, Italian, Bulgarian, Yugoslavian, Turkish (especially in Austria where I live and there's a big Turkish minority). Once, an Armenian guy told me that I could pass easily in Armenia and considering my Armenoid (?) features that may be true. 
> ...


If not Greek, I think a western Turk or someone from neighboring areas in the Balkans is what I would have guessed, not Italian. That's not to say that there aren't Greeks and Italians, particularly southern Italians, who look a lot alike and could fool me, because there are and I've been fooled. To me, you just have a type of "Greek" look that's pretty hard to mistake, although not the only type, of course.

I'm not sure that I'm persuaded by this trope that Anatolian Greeks are just Hellenized Anatolians. People are remarkably good at isolating themselves reproductively, especially when religion is involved. We've been talking about it in regard to a new paper that discusses assortative mating. 

Look at all those German villages scattered throughout southeastern and eastern Europe. Even when they shared a religion they remained distinct from the surrounding population for hundreds of years. In terms of the Greek communities in Anatolia, it makes sense that there was mixing during the classical era, but was there much with the advance of Islam? If there was movement across religious lines, wouldn't it have been Greeks joining the Muslim majority? What sense would there have been in Muslims joining the Greek community when it was so much more disadvantageous to become a Greek? Indeed, you would know better than I, but weren't Muslims forbidden from converting to Christianity?

Even in terms of the classical era, given the density of the Greek colonization in the western part of Anatolia perhaps the fact is that western Turks are heavily Greek rather than the other way around. Or, there was always similarity given that neighboring areas are indeed similar. Genetic variation exists on a cline; it doesn't stop at national borders, especially national borders that are only a few hundred years old. 

Of course, the only way we'll know what really happened is through ancient dna. Modern dna is just going to point out similarities. It's not going to point out, necessarily, the direction of gene flow or how old it is.

Btw, an Armenian telling you that you look Armenian surprises me, but I guess he would know better than I do. 

If you're interested in Greek genetics the best place to investigate is dienekes.blogspot.com. Just use the search engine, and lots and lots of threads should come up.

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## Sakattack

I never considered myself as and Latin looking person (I mean Italian or even Iberian), people who assume that I look like them provably judge through my colouring (dark hair + fair but not reddish skin). 

As for Anatolians it's true that modern Turks possess more Greek genes than the other way around, something absolutely normal and expected if we take in consideration the area's history. 

We should also keep in mind though that Anatolia was inhabited from the prehistoric times and of course was not empty when the Greeks arrived (you know that for sure and most likely better than me). With the exception of the Celts who came later, the Armenians and the Turks (Kurds and Iranic people as well - as you go towards East), at some point we lost track of the Hittites, the Phrygians, the Lydians etc and these people were absorbed either from the early Greeks (possibly) or from the late Turks. 

I don't have any doubt that my ancestors were Greek speaking people (AT LEAST after the 7th century) and one of the first group of people who embraced Christianity (proved). After that turning point I doubt that any admixture took place and all the clues - as you mentioned - suggest that they kept their reproduction line quite isolated. And almost 1500 is a quite... vast amount of time to label them as Greeks. Identity well deserved 😃

My point is that I am not sure what happened before the ancient Greeks arrived in Cappadocia (the first and second Greek Colonization didn't include Cappadocia). This happened in a small extend after the Alexander's era and then region was heavily hellenized.

Cappadocians of that period (who were at a small percentage Greeks and at a larger, hellenized locals) had some admixtures and some small degree migrations with the Pontic Greeks (lots of trade though) and to a smaller extend with their West Coast neighbours (Greeks, Lydians etc). 

In any case, I agree with that you said about borders, especially on that turn of history: neighboring populations tend to look like each other and share genes. 

Sent from my Robin

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## Sakattack

Thanks a lot btw for your suggestion about Dienekes. He's quite awesome!

Sent from my Robin

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## Dinarid

> Well, that's surprising. 
> 
> 3/3 correct answers isn't what I was expecting to be honest. 
> 
> I pass - of course - in Greece but I don't consider myself 100% typical in my country.
> 
> I have rather broad face with semi-prominent cheekbones, meso-bracycephalic and sort of strong eyebrow bridge. Light brown eyes also don't apply to the majority in Greece. 
> 
> When people try to guess where I come from, I've heard multiple guesses, including Spanish, Italian, Bulgarian, Yugoslavian, Turkish (especially in Austria where I live and there's a big Turkish minority). Once, an Armenian guy told me that I could pass easily in Armenia and considering my Armenoid (?) features that may be true. 
> ...


"Armenoids" have _much_ longer faces and especially noses, more sloping foreheads, less visible chins, less prominent brow ridges, less wide jaws, darker skin and eyes, and are hairier.

You look absolutely nothing like this.

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## Sakattack

Haha Dinarid, no I don't look like him. 

And OK, if not Armenoid in which Caucasian subrace would you classify me? 

Mediterranean? Iranid? Dinarid? Nordic? Alpine? Turanid? East Baltic? Semitic? Arabic?

Sent from my Robin

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## Angela

If people are going to start ********other ethnic groups by posting bizarre photos and describing certain groups in pejorative ways, my moderator hat is going to have to go on. This kind of thread is supposed to be for some harmless amusement, nothing more. 

These are some very famous Armenians:






The OP does not, in my opinion, look much like them at all, which is why I was surprised that supposedly an Armenian told him he resembled Armenians. Perhaps it was just meant as a sociable comment.

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## Sakattack

> If people are going to start ********other ethnic groups by posting bizarre photos and describing certain groups in pejorative ways, my moderator hat is going to have to go on. This kind of thread is supposed to be for some harmless amusement, nothing more.


Agree. But maybe he posted this pic trying to be more graphically descriptive and not particularly offensive. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt :)



> These are some very famous Armenians:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The OP does not, in my opinion, look much like them at all, which is why I was surprised that supposedly an Armenian told him he resembled Armenians. Perhaps it was just meant as a sociable comment.


Handsome/beautiful/charming individuals can be found among any ethnic group, phenotype, race or subrace. It's a subjective matter of taste after all. 

I still try to figure out my phenotype though 😃


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## Angela

> Agree. But maybe he posted this pic trying to be more graphically descriptive and not particularly offensive. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt :)
> 
> 
> Handsome/beautiful/charming individuals can be found among any ethnic group, phenotype, race or subrace. It's a subjective matter of taste after all. 
> 
> I still try to figure out my phenotype though ������
> 
> 
> Sent from my Robin


I posted the first three famous Armenians who came to my mind: Charles Aznavour, the great Armenian-French singer, Robert Kardashian, a famous American trial attorney and father of the infamous Kim Kardashian, and William Saroyan, the great Armenian American writer. I didn't choose them for their looks or lack of them.

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## Sakattack

... which makes your post even more non-biased and more original. 

Didn't say that they're some kind of exception. Don't get me wrong. 

Sent from my Robin

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## Dinarid

I would say you may have some Armenian-like influence but not enough to pass. You do have kind of big eyes, which is one thing Armenians are famous for. I would say that you would be definitely from east of the Mediterranean, in an area with influence of brachycephaly, so probably Anatolian. That said I have seen a lot of Greeks in particular with your features. Probably even some Armenians too. If I absolutely _had_ to pick a specific ethnic group/nationality based on appearance (which is very un-scientific) I would probably say Turkish.

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## Dinarid

> If people are going to start ********other ethnic groups by posting bizarre photos and describing certain groups in pejorative ways, my moderator hat is going to have to go on. This kind of thread is supposed to be for some harmless amusement, nothing more.


I am unaware of anything "offensive" posted about Armenians. The physical attributes mentioned were those listed by the anthropologists of the era you yourself like to reference quite frequently. And that particular Armenian man is not unattractive in my opinion at all. Just very exotic. I guess I should have included "big eyes" because that is considered beautiful and is quite common among Armenians. As far as I'm aware there is nothing "bizarre" about posting a photo of perhaps the most famous Armenian national personality of the 20th century to use as a (somewhat extreme) example of supposedly typical Armenian features. I have mentioned in another thread that I very much admire the Armenian people, so "********", which I take as a negative thing, was not my intention, and I can't possibly imagine how it was seen as such. I'm also quite sure that associating Armenians with any member of the Kardashian family is the last thing they want.

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## Dinarid

Also, if I had to guess a haplogroup based on appearance (which is quite hard), I would say probably R1b. As for "subrace" you are a good example of why early anthropologists thinking their categories were ingenious and perfect were quite stupid. You are quite clearly a mix of something and something else. Probably some type of Mediterranean, with some Armenoid and probably a little Alpine influence, and quite possibly "Turanid".

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## Kisuan

Not bad looking at all. :)
I'm an amateur at anthropological classifications, but I guess...."Eastern Mediterranean"? Seriously, I don't have extremely great insights on the subject matter. :/

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## RobertColumbia

> ...People are remarkably good at isolating themselves reproductively, especially when religion is involved. We've been talking about it in regard to a new paper that discusses assortative mating. 
> 
> Look at all those German villages scattered throughout southeastern and eastern Europe. Even when they shared a religion they remained distinct from the surrounding population for hundreds of years....


Great point. For a current example, look at Amish communities in the USA. They prefer to marry only among themselves and they receive very few converts. This has actually made them notably less diverse in a genetic sense from surrounding (non-Amish) German-Americans and who have become significantly admixed with Irish and other groups. Hasidic Jews, the other "funny hat" religious group of the US East Coast, is showing signs of heading in the same direction. Neither group bans converts, but converting just isn't common (or easy from a social perspective).

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