# Humanities & Anthropology > Philosophy >  Indo European supremacy

## Fluffy

Hi. I’m just asking a simple question. Why does everyone want to be associated with Indo Europeans? I’ve seen it time and again. Ev13 members try to be I. E. J2b aswell and many people in academic fields of genealogy. Were they some type of master race? Wouldn’t it be obvious though if they were? In my own family my uncle is R1b I’m G2a myself and score higher than him in “steppe ancestry”? Also I’m twice his size I have a hard time believing his ancestors could conquer my ancestors so easily. I also have a higher IQ. So how the hell does this work? His children are barely 5’5 I’m 6 ft tall. I’d kill them in a fight so how is this because he’s R1b and I’m G2a. Also my phenotype is much more Nordic and his is alpine/Mediterranean. If someone can enlighten me it would be great.

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## Jovialis

> Hi. I’m just asking a simple question. Why does everyone want to be associated with Indo Europeans? I’ve seen it time and again. Ev13 members try to be I. E. J2b aswell and many people in academic fields of genealogy. Were they some type of master race? Wouldn’t it be obvious though if they were? In my own family my uncle is R1b I’m G2a myself and score higher than him in “steppe ancestry”? Also I’m twice his size I have a hard time believing his ancestors could conquer my ancestors so easily. I also have a higher IQ. So how the hell does this work? His children are barely 5’5 I’m 6 ft tall. I’d kill them in a fight so how is this because he’s R1b and I’m G2a. Also my phenotype is much more Nordic and his is alpine/Mediterranean. If someone can enlighten me it would be great.


I'm R1b, same as the one found in the Bronze age Palace of Nestor in the time of Achilles and Agamemnon. My maternal lineage was also found in Yamnaya women, and other steppe offshoots. I am also 6 foot 2 inches tall, 215 pounds. I was tested to have an IQ of 143 in the second grade. I am in the 99 percentile in testosterone according to Nebula WGS 30x results. 

However, I'm only about 27% steppe, and the rest is attributed to Neolithic peoples. I identify more with those Neolithic people, and respect their ingenuity, and creation of advanced civilization over the warmongering, rape, and conquest romanticized for the steppe.

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## Fluffy

> I'm R1b, same as the one found in the Bronze age Palace of Nestor in the time of Achilles and Agamemnon. My maternal lineage was also found in Yamnaya women, and other steppe offshoots. I am also 6 foot 2 inches tall, 215 pounds. I was tested to have an IQ of 143 in the second grade. I am in the 99 percentile in testosterone according to Nebula WGS 30x results. 
> 
> However, I'm only about 27% steppe, and the rest is attributed to Neolithic peoples. I identify more with those Neolithic people, and respect their ingenuity, and creation of advanced civilization over the warmongering, rape, and conquest romanticized for the steppe.


Completely agree on that it shouldn’t be admirable to rape and conquer. We’re supposed to evolve as time goes on.

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## kingjohn

> Hi. I’m just asking a simple question. Why does everyone want to be associated with Indo Europeans? I’ve seen it time and again. *Ev13 members try to be I. E. J2b aswell and many people in academic fields of genealogy.* Were they some type of master race? Wouldn’t it be obvious though if they were? In my own family my uncle is R1b I’m G2a myself and score higher than him in “steppe ancestry”? Also I’m twice his size I have a hard time believing his ancestors could conquer my ancestors so easily. I also have a higher IQ. So how the hell does this work? His children are barely 5’5 I’m 6 ft tall. I’d kill them in a fight so how is this because he’s R1b and I’m G2a. Also my phenotype is much more Nordic and his is alpine/Mediterranean. If someone can enlighten me it would be great.


it is a result mainly of propagnda on the net ( mainly by a person we all know)
that if you have steppe ancestery or are related to steppe 
people by paternal line you are superior to others 
it is sad but propagnda and brainwash can still effect people minds

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## Fluffy

Thank you for your input kingjohn. Good angle to see it. Dangerous propaganda indeed lol. It’s because of people’s way of thinking everyone wants to feel “superior” .

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## Fluffy

The need to feel superior is a big one . Elevate one group over others. Why don’t we all go back to Nazism. Have we not learned anything about that type of thinking?

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## Jovialis

Funny thing is, I wonder if the people who romanticize this kind of rape and violence would also do the same for the criminals in Chicago and NYC. Somehow, I doubt it.

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## Fluffy

It’s the far right pushing this propaganda imo. Academics and such trying to prove or distort facts and history to make way for the “super human” R1b “/ R1a nonsense because if there was a super human it would be obvious .

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## Jovialis

> It’s the far right pushing this propaganda imo. Academics and such trying to prove or distort facts and history to make way for the “super human” R1b “/ R1a nonsense because if there was a super human it would be obvious .


I'm pretty right-wing, I'm sure some would even call me far-right (who isn't nowadays, according to the left?). But I think the people who do push it are probably wannabe nazis, or just nihilistic people who don't really believe in anything.

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## MOESAN

This thread could be put in another category than Y-haplo's topics. It's focused on what I could name politics-phylosophy, not DNA concerns.
That said, by chance, a lot of people here are interested in Y-haplo's only for their links to history, without any thought about superiority/inferiority, even more when we know the uniparental haplo's can be disconnected quickly of the allover DNA making.
And "low-roof" people in recent past didn't need to know their Y ahplo's to commit massive crimes.

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## Jovialis

> This thread could be put in another category than Y-haplo's topics. It's focused on what I could name politics-phylosophy, not DNA concerns.
> That said, by chance, a lot of people here are interested in Y-haplo's only for their links to history, without any thought about superiority/inferiority, even more when we know the uniparental haplo's can be disconnected quickly of the allover DNA making.
> And "low-roof" people in recent past didn't need to know their Y ahplo's to commit massive crimes.


Good idea, I moved it to the philosophy sub-forum.

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## Fluffy

But why would they want to know they’re haplogroup so bad? To feel better about themselves? It’s petty because it’s not just ancestry but a notion that a certain group is somehow better because if they’re brutality or what not.

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## Fluffy

It’s not just a hobby anymore is what I’m saying. Or simple ancestry. It’s about competition of who is more Indo European! As every haplogroup including my own tries to identify with. I don’t see anyone trying to tie themselves to EEF.

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## Jovialis

> It’s not just a hobby anymore is what I’m saying. Or simple ancestry. It’s about competition of who is more Indo European! As every haplogroup including my own tries to identify with. I don’t see anyone trying to tie themselves to EEF.


That's probably because more intelligent people without these kind of insecurities do not debase themselves with those kind of puerile contests. They're too busy raising children, and paying their mortgage to care.

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## Northener

> Hi. I’m just asking a simple question. Why does everyone want to be associated with Indo Europeans? I’ve seen it time and again. Ev13 members try to be I. E. J2b aswell and many people in academic fields of genealogy. Were they some type of master race? Wouldn’t it be obvious though if they were? In my own family my uncle is R1b I’m G2a myself and score higher than him in “steppe ancestry”? Also I’m twice his size I have a hard time believing his ancestors could conquer my ancestors so easily. I also have a higher IQ. So how the hell does this work? His children are barely 5’5 I’m 6 ft tall. I’d kill them in a fight so how is this because he’s R1b and I’m G2a. Also my phenotype is much more Nordic and his is alpine/Mediterranean. If someone can enlighten me it would be great.


Imo it's as follows if someone wants to project feelings of superiority on DNA/heritage he gets some.....

Neither Steppe/IE pride, EEF/Farmer pride.....Y-DNA type of pride...you name it!

Imo kind of ridiculous but's seems how it functions for some people.

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## Mmiikkii

> I identify more with those Neolithic people, and respect their ingenuity, and creation of advanced civilization over the warmongering, rape, and conquest romanticized for the steppe.


What "rape and conquest" is the steppe? The steppe is the steppe, period.

If we were to be guided by that, we could tell the same about the societies of "hunter-gatherers"(not neccessarily hunting forever) that were wiped out by the incoming farmers.
Some people will thank for their dissapearence... Even though we know they were finally capable of civilization in Scandinavia and when they resurged in the Megalithic era.

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## real expert

> I'm R1b, same as the one found in the Bronze age Palace of Nestor in the time of Achilles and Agamemnon. My maternal lineage was also found in Yamnaya women, and other steppe offshoots. I am also 6 foot 2 inches tall, 215 pounds. I was tested to have an IQ of 143 in the second grade. I am in the 99 percentile in testosterone according to Nebula WGS 30x results. 
> 
> However, I'm only about 27% steppe, and the rest is attributed to Neolithic peoples. I identify more with those Neolithic people, and respect their ingenuity, and creation of advanced civilization over the warmongering, rape, and conquest romanticized for the steppe.


I actually agree with plenty of things you say and your take on many topics. That said, I respectfully disagree with you here. The thing is that violence, wars, rape, brutal conquest etc. were not restricted to Steppe people. From the dawn of time, men from ALL cultures and races, raped in wars and during conquest. It's the dark side of human nature in display. Surely, there are some cultures and people that are more warlike, violent or aggressive than others. Anyway, the normal Indo-European enthusiasts admire and fanboy over Steppe folks for being conquerors and expansionists who gave rise to Indo-European languages all over Eurasia. It's okay to like IEs and also okay to fancy the Neolithic Euros over them. Each to his own.

To me, it means going from one extreme to the other when people start demonizing and hating on the Steppe people. Besides, I plead several times to stop the association of Indo-Europeans with the Nazis or other extremist groups, since it makes a rational and scholarly discussions about them difficult. Not accusing you of doing such a thing, but generally speaking, trashing the Steppe ancestry and heritage is not the right way to respond to folks with Nordicist, Nazi or other distorted views. Nobody, for instance, hates the Romans just because fascists claimed to base their ideology on the Roman Empire and its history. Btw, ironically on another forum a Greek guy with the hp G considered the Minoan culture as "gay" and wasn't thrilled with the ANF either. It's bizarre to pit ancestral groups against each other.

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## real expert

> It’s the far right pushing this propaganda imo. Academics and such trying to prove or distort facts and history to make way for the “super human” R1b “/ R1a nonsense because if there was a super human it would be obvious .



If anything, academics on the whole are rather on the liberal or even far left spectrum and not remotely right wing. It appears that the academics and intellectuals are at war with the European cultural and national identity. Hence, the politicization of Ancient DNA to nip any strong sense of identity of Europeans from North to South, in the bud. Believe it or not, but there are no few non-Europeans who pride themselves with and base their supremacy on the Indo-Europeans. In addition, with or without the obsession with Steppe ancestry, there will be folks who indulge in superiority fantasies. For example, there is Arab supremacy an ideology that promotes the "racial", cultural and ethnic superiority of Arab people over non-Arab Middle Easterners such as the Black African, Berbers, Kurdish, Turkish. Turkish nationalists on the other hand are convinced of the superiority of Turkics, Mongols over Byzantines and Europeans, etc. Japanese thought they were superior to all East Asians, so did the Han Chinese.

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## Jovialis

> I actually agree with plenty of things you say and your take on many topics. That said, I respectfully disagree with you here. The thing is that violence, wars, rape, brutal conquest etc. were not restricted to Steppe people. From the dawn of time, men from ALL cultures and races, raped in wars and during conquest. It's the dark side of human nature in display. Surely, there are some cultures and people that are more warlike, violent or aggressive than others. Anyway, the normal Indo-European enthusiasts admire and fanboy over Steppe folks for being conquerors and expansionists who gave rise to Indo-European languages all over Eurasia. It's okay to like IEs and also okay to fancy the Neolithic Euros over them. Each to his own.
> 
> To me, it means going from one extreme to the other when people start demonizing and hating on the Steppe people. Besides, I plead several times to stop the association of Indo-Europeans with the Nazis or other extremist groups, since it makes a rational and scholarly discussions about them difficult. Not accusing you of doing such a thing, but generally speaking, trashing the Steppe ancestry and heritage is not the right way to respond to folks with Nordicist, Nazi or other distorted views. Nobody, for instance, hates the Romans just because fascists claimed to base their ideology on the Roman Empire and its history. Btw, ironically on another forum a Greek guy with the hp G considered the Minoan culture as "gay" and wasn't thrilled with the ANF either. It's bizarre to pit ancestral groups against each other.


You're right about that, I don't mean to trash it, if it came off that way. I think it is cool to be about a quarter steppe too. I am more annoyed at the people who use it to pretend to be tough guys. I was pretty street wise growing up, hung out in a lot of dangerous areas, with dangerous people, have been in my fair share of physical altercations. That was before I went to college, became a professional person, and started a family, and became a home owner. I have known some of the lowest rungs of society, as well as some of the highest. I have had a pretty unique life. That being said, I seriously doubt many of these people are tough guys in this hobby, and probably look like stereotypical nerds.


I don't think the Minoans are "gay" (i.e. weak), they're named for the myth of King Minos who forced the Athenians send their children to be sacrificed to the Minotaur. Otherwise face war with Crete. Odds are this "Greek" person is some t-roll pretending to be Greek.

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## Jovialis

> What "rape and conquest" is the steppe? The steppe is the steppe, period.
> If we were to be guided by that, we could tell the same about the societies of "hunter-gatherers"(not neccessarily hunting forever) that were wiped out by the incoming farmers.
> Some people will thank for their dissapearence... Even though we know they were finally capable of civilization in Scandinavia and when they resurged in the Megalithic era.


You should write to these guys with a complaint than:

https://www.newscientist.com/article...n-ancient-dna/

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## Tomenable

> However, I'm only about 27% steppe, and the rest is attributed to Neolithic peoples. I identify more with those Neolithic people, and respect their ingenuity, and creation of advanced civilization over the warmongering, rape, and conquest romanticized for the steppe.


And according to the "Pantheon Project", Sardinia gave birth to two globally memorable people, Pope Symmachus and Antonio Gramsci:

https://pantheon.world/profile/count...ties-by-births

But according to Wikipedia, Gramsci's father immigrated to Sardinia from mainland Italy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonio_Gramsci

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## Tomenable

Never mind.

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## saraman

> it is a result mainly of propagnda on the net ( mainly by a person we all know)
> that if you have steppe ancestery or are related to steppe 
> people by paternal line you are superior to others 
> it is sad but propagnda and brainwash can still effect people minds


There are probably 4 other haplogroups besides R1b & R1a in Europe that are possibly also traceable to a “Indo-European” source like I J (via CHG/Iranians/EHG), R2(also via CHG), & Q(via ANE origin). So, it’s not far fetched for J2b, but it’s far fetched for E-V13 that are mainly associated with Farmers.

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