# Humanities & Anthropology > Philosophy >  Common Spiritual traits for each Haplogroup

## Twilight

Hello there, today being a Sabbath Day in the religion I'm affiliated with; Catholic, I've been quite intrigued about the J2 article about how the bull is said to be worshipped by J2 civilizations. So I was wondering how each religion came to be and what Haplogroup or Haplogroups can take credit for certain traditions :Thinking: . ( :Wary: If there are some things that I typed in my question that doesn't make sense, I am more than willing to edit this forum page or if I need to break this up to each haplogroup that's cool too, thank you so much :Grin: )

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## Cambrius (The Red)

Why would haplogroups and religion be associated?

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## Twilight

> Why would haplogroups and religion be associated?


According to Maciamo, there is a distinct relationship between bull Worship and Haplogroup J2. It's on the J2 page under Genetics. 

This page is also an offshoot of this link done by Maciamo http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...ndu-identities

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## Twilight

http://piereligion.org/ I also have stumbled into this link talking about the Proto-Indo-European Religion

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## Ike

> Why would haplogroups and religion be associated?


Because there were not many redskins that believed in Horus, and not many Jews believed in Manitou.

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## Aberdeen

> Because there were not many redskins that believed in Horus, and not many Jews believed in Manitou.


That seems to me to be more of a cultural issue than a result of haplotypes. Most people in Europe and North America are from a christian background for historical reasons, but I doubt if you can predict how likely they are to have moved away from the faith of their ancestors on the basis of their haplotypes.

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## Twilight

Yeah I may have phraised this wrong, Maciamo explains that YDNA J2 created bull worship and I noticed that bulls in Mythologies continued on to Celtic and Baltic Mythologies where R1 is quite common if not predominate over J2 so I'm wondering if the Indo-Europeans adopted Bull Mythologies.

With all do respect, Christians can't just come out of nowhere, sone of the haplogroups have to contribute to the philosophy ^_^

Come to think of it the name sounds misleading, I can open up a revised page if you'd like

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## Ike

The bull worship is related to stars (approx. 4000-2000 BC). It was also worshiped in Egypt and around. The better question now is who invented the Zodiac.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrolo...Taurean_Age.29

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## Aberdeen

> The bull worship is related to stars (approx. 4000-2000 BC). It was also worshiped in Egypt and around. The better question now is who invented the Zodiac.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrolo...Taurean_Age.29


There's been some speculation that the zodiac still used by astrologers in the western world today was created by the Sumerians, but the Chinese horoscope seems to be a separate creation. I think that trying to use the stars in order to figure out the flow of energy in human lives is something that would eventually occur to all early people if they didn't already have some kind of horoscope. People want to explain the world to themselves, and in a low tech world, the night sky provides a spectacular display on clear nights. It's too bad that there are a lot of people who've never seen the night sky free from light pollution. Even in a huge country like Canada, you have to go a long way away from all human habitation before you're free from artificial light. When you're out on the land away from artificial light and you get a clear night, the stellar display is truly amazing, and makes one feel that the stars are living beings that could easily influence human destiny. (And on an overcast night you find out why the ancients feared darkness).

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## Angela

I had an experience like that when I was camping in southern Idaho. Unforgettable.

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## Aberdeen

> I had an experience like that when I was camping in southern Idaho. Unforgettable.


Although I've lived in cities for over 30 years now, I still remember the stars from my childhood, and as an adult I've often been in out in the wilderness far enough from artificial light to see the full effect of the stars. That really is a magical experience. But on an overcast night, being out on the land can be scary. Once I was camping by myself and couldn't find my flashlight, and it was overcast. And the night was so dark that I could hold my hand up inches from my face and not see my hand at all. In fact, I couldn't see anything, and the mind plays strange tricks in total darkness. I kept waking up in the night and because I couldn't see anything at all, I felt as if the world had disappeared, and nothing existed except for myself and what I could feel around me, the tent and the sleeping bag. Several times I had to open the tent flap, reach out and touch the ground, just to reassure myself that the Earth was still there. I always remembered to carry an extra flashlight after that experience. It helped me to understand why the ancients feared the dark. But I feel sorry for anyone who's never seen the stars and the Moon in their full glory, away from artificial light on a clear night.

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## Angela

I don't know if you're a writer by trade, Aberdeen, but if you aren't, you should be...

Your passage and the discussion upthread brought this to mind...

"It was cold, but the ground was dry. I laid myself down on the grass to look at the stars. It seemed as if I were seeing them for the first time. And perhaps it was actually true, because I was looking at them without thinking about their names. I envisaged myself as a caveman who has read nothing, who has studied nothing, who knows nothing. And, free of all that knowledge, I lost myself in the wonder of it, soothed by the immensity of the universe. I no longer looked at it. I was part of it." Tiziano Terzani, Un Altro Giro di Giostra. I would describe him as a godless priest, or a godless mystic, usually employed as a journalist.

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## Aberdeen

Thanks, Angela. I was a writer by trade, but a writer of letters and memos about the correct interpretation of tax legislation. Not quite the same thing as Mr. Terzani's style of writing. And I must say that I've often admired your writing style. Perhaps we could persuade Maciamo to create a section where some of us could write Ancient Europe Fan Fiction, where we imagine ourselves as ancient IE folk or whoever and write from a first person perspective about our experiences in invading Iberia or whatever.

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## RobertColumbia

> That seems to me to be more of a cultural issue than a result of haplotypes. Most people in Europe and North America are from a christian background for historical reasons, but I doubt if you can predict how likely they are to have moved away from the faith of their ancestors on the basis of their haplotypes.


That's an interesting research idea. It might especially work in the US, where the culture strongly believes that religion is a personal matter and where people are not required to, or sometimes even expected, to follow their parents in religion.

It would be interesting to look at some of the relatively recent New Religious Movements that have gained a significant following in many areas of the US and see if people of certain haplogroups were disproportionately attracted to them. For example, it might be the case that I2 people are more likely to convert to the LDS (Mormon) faith and that Scientologists are predominantly R1a and E1b1b, even in areas where R1b predominates among the general public.

Has there been any research along these lines?

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## Twilight

> That's an interesting research idea. It might especially work in the US, where the culture strongly believes that religion is a personal matter and where people are not required to, or sometimes even expected, to follow their parents in religion.
> 
> It would be interesting to look at some of the relatively recent New Religious Movements that have gained a significant following in many areas of the US and see if people of certain haplogroups were disproportionately attracted to them. For example, it might be the case that I2 people are more likely to convert to the LDS (Mormon) faith and that Scientologists are predominantly R1a and E1b1b, even in areas where R1b predominates among the general public.
> 
> Has there been any research along these lines?


 Kind of forgotten that I started this thread, I haven't found a internet page as far as United States religions are concerned however I suppose we can start a test. Everyone can say what haplogroup YDNA and Mtdna they belong too and their direct Paternal and direct maternal ancestor's religions.

For example 

I'm YDNA R1b-U152 and directly decended from a British Quaker Family, my Paternal Grandpa Grandpa left the farm life in Jet City and moved to Nebraska where he became a Methodist Priest Until he retired. My Biological Dad was apart of the 4 square Church but divorced my Mom when I was 2. I was raised by my Mom whom we are both Catholic, but I was also influenced by My Step Dad's Chinook Shaminism.

My Mtdna is J1c7a, my Maternal Grandmother was born into an Anglican Family and lived in the Middlesex area for centuries, when Nanny started to live with Grandpa she converted to Catholicism and moved to Tennessee where my Mom was born.

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## MtDNA

> Kind of forgotten that I started this thread, I haven't found a internet page as far as United States religions are concerned however I suppose we can start a test. Everyone can say what haplogroup YDNA and Mtdna they belong too and their direct Paternal and direct maternal ancestor's religions.
> 
> For example 
> 
> I'm YDNA R1b-U152 and directly decended from a British Quaker Family, my Paternal Grandpa Grandpa left the farm life in Jet City and moved to Nebraska where he became a Methodist Priest Until he retired. My Biological Dad was apart of the 4 square Church but divorced my Mom when I was 2. I was raised by my Mom whom we are both Catholic, but I was also influenced by My Step Dad's Chinook Shaminism.
> 
> My Mtdna is J1c7a, my Maternal Grandmother was born into an Anglican Family and lived in the Middlesex area for centuries, when Nanny started to live with Grandpa she converted to Catholicism and moved to Tennessee where my Mom was born.



Well, my MtDNA is U2e1, and members of direct maternal line were Twelver Shia Muslims from west Iran/Iraq. Back then, there was no technical border between Iran and Iraq, and people went back and forth freely.

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## Sile

> Well, my MtDNA is U2e1, and members of direct maternal line were Twelver Shia Muslims from west Iran/Iraq. Back then, there was no technical border between Iran and Iraq, and people went back and forth freely.


There was no muslim at the time of creation of U2e1, your ancient ancestors are noted as Pagans praying to the same God as you pray to today

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## Twilight

That's true, we were all descended from pagans at one point

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