# Population Genetics > mtDNA Haplogroups > H >  haplogroup mt H4a

## Arngrim

Hi all,


new to this site, I am looking for information on my mitochondrial haplogroup, which seems underrepresented: H4a. I do not find enough information on the internet, and the few that I find not do me much ...
I saw that it would have appeared on the shores of the Black Sea there are about 12,000 years and is present mainly in Poland and Ireland. On another site, someone also said that there would be a lot of carries this haplogroup on the shores of the North Sea.
My maternal line from Switzerland, so far enough from Poland or Ireland, I wonder what historical tribes attach this haplogroup, what population movements, which would justify the presence of H4a in the depths of the canton of Freiburg lol.

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## Aberdeen

As far as I've been able to determine, there's not much information out there about mtDNA H4.

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## marielouise

My haplogroup is H4a1a1a1a. I was born in Sweden and my maternal ancestors also lived in Sweden at least from the mid 1700s. I agree that there does not seem to be too munch information about H4.

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## Arbaso

I am also a H4a 1a1a, according to the ADN results processed in 23andme. 
There is very little information on this haplogroup, maybe because it is very scattered around Europe, from what I am reading in this forum and in others. I will share with you my background, in case it is helpful for anybody:
Ethnically speaking I am Basque. I can trace my mithocondrial line back to around 1600s and all those women were Basques who lived in the Biscayan coast. The 23andme results concluded that I am 98% from the Iberian peninsula. I wonder what this means: my ancestors have always lived in the same place, that is, in the Northern area of the Iberian peninsula?
I read in your posts that people who also have this haplogroup come from Switzerland and from Sweden, which seem quite far away from the Basque Country. The more I read about this haplogroup, the more puzzled I get. If anyone can throw some light on this, we'll be so grateful!

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## marielouise

My haplogroup is H4a1a1a1a. All my maternal ancestors lived in Sweden, in the same general area, in Västergötland. I have gone back, in my research, to Annika Larsdotter Thiman, born in 1656 in Kvänum, Skaraborg county. Västergötland is an agricultural area, and apparently it was settled early by a farmer population. I would love to know more about them!

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## Judith

Arbaso please join the FTDNA H4 project if you have not already joined? And all other H4s!
The earliest H4 DNA that I know of is from Spain and it is early Neolithic. That makes your ancestor possibly one of the earliest H4 in Europe.

It says that the Eastern Europe LBK culture had common origins (levant) with the Cardial culture 
The person lived ~5300BC and the sample is H4a1a is F19
I can not post a link yet but search for Olade Spain and ancient DNA and you will find it in mbe.oxfordjournals.

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## BBow

My haplogroup is H4a1a4b. My maternal family have been in New Zealand since the 1860s, it seems that my Great Great Grandmother was Irish, possibly born in Cork - one of the reasons for having the MtDNA test was to see if more could be discovered about this branch of my family.

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## LondonBlueEyes

> My haplogroup is H4a1a1a1a. All my maternal ancestors lived in Sweden, in the same general area, in Västergötland. I have gone back, in my research, to Annika Larsdotter Thiman, born in 1656 in Kvänum, Skaraborg county. Västergötland is an agricultural area, and apparently it was settled early by a farmer population. I would love to know more about them!


Like you Marie Louise my maternal roots are firmly planted in Skaraborg, Västergötland. My oldest ancestor found is Christina Persdotter b. 1784 in Fredsberg parish, Skaraborg. Also my paternal roots are to a large extent found in Västergötland, but some of them in Bergslagen (Örebro) and Småland.

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## Arbaso

Hi Judith, I have been reading the information provided by FTDNA H4 project and I will also go through the Oxford journals paper, which really seems interesting. 
However, it seems that I cannot join the FTDNA project unless I order one of their DNA tests:
To join you should:
 Have Results from the mtDNA Full Genomic Sequence test at Family Tree DNA to get the most from the project
 Have your HVR1, HVR2, and Coding Region (CR) results turned on.
 Allow this project's admins to see your CR data.

I have the raw data provided by 23andMe and no problem at all to share it, the more so if it helps clarify the whereabouts of H4 in Europe. But I am not willing to take further DNA tests or pay to join a project. Any suggestions, Judith?

Thanks for your interest!

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## Judith

Hi we are both new to the forum so neither of us can PM yet. When we can we should exchange information. I totally understand your hesitation to pay more when you already know the answer of which group you are in. Can you upload your results to James Licks mt hap analyser and that will tell you will extra mutations you have. Since you are from the Basque area you may be autosomal (and mtDNA) early farmer. The GEDMATCH admixture tool puntl k10 ancient will tell you that.

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## Arbaso

Thanks for pointing the James Licks analyser, I didn't know about it. As for GEDMATCH, I already uploaded my results there. These are the results I get with Puntl k10 Ancient:

Population


ASI
-

Sub-Saharan
0.59

Oceanian
-

Beringian
-

ENF
39.47

CHG
14.20

Siberian
-

E_Asian
-

WHG
44.35

Amerindian
1.39



Looking at the average in oracle4 for Spanish Basques, I am more or less there, except my WHG seems a little lower. By the way, what does CHG stand for? I don't know much about these admixture things, but this one says that my hunter-gatherer percentage is higher than the neolithic farmer one.

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## Judith

MarieLouise do you know how early your farmers settled in Sweden?
H4 is generally everywhere in Europe at a low level and high level means >3% and the ftdna H4 project site has the details where known, but information is not available for every country.
CHG is Caucasus hunter gatherer and it gets into Europe via the early farmers from Turkey and Levant about 7000years ago then later in the Bronze Age 4000 years ago with the Steppe people.
All of the significant migrations of prehistory contributed to today's distribution.

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## Judith

Arbaso for comparison I am English and my results are
sub Sahara 0.92
oceanian 0
Beringian 0.65
ENF 27.6
CHG 19.8
WHG 48.9
Amerindian 0.58

We need to ignore the less than 1% ones but the most significant is your ENF is much higher than mine. I have more WHG and more CHG from the Bronze Age Steppe invaders.
H4 has caught Maciamo's interest and he has posted a new thread.

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## RTerry

Hello out there to all my fellow H4 relatives. I, like all of you am finding it extremely difficult to find any information regarding H4 or further subclades. I am H4a1a1a3 and have had very little success recovering even basic information about my haplogroup. This has been frustrating because much of the resarch studies and other works I have found may mention H4 but only include the same sad information regarding H4- Often found in Iberia and Ireland. My grandmother, through oral history, passed down our maternal lineage as Dutch. I have read many studies regarding mtDNA H, but all of he research has left me with more questions than answers. Multiple immunological studies mention H1, H3 and H4 to be protective against several diseases including HIV, but I have yet to see any data or sudy conclusions to elaborate with any information specific to H4. Last week Family Tree did change my origins from (R-M222) 22% Ireland and British Isles and (H4a1a1a3) 77% Western and Central Europe to 98% British Isles and 2% other. Either H4 information is being withheld from the general public, paying DNA Study Participants, due to Political or other reasons or H4 is an incorrectly published haplogroup. Something seems unusual about the lack of information and/or secrecy surrounding our haplogroup. It seems much information is being withheld from us and I find this frustrating, unfair, alarming and ehically questionable since I am paying for this service and allowing for ongoing research with my DNA and sequencing results. It was nice to vent a bit with others I am sure feel quite similar at times.

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## Arbaso

Hi RTerry, I understand your frustration about the lack of information for H4 and subclades. I am H4a1a1a* from the Basque Country, and FTDNA has me now as 100% Iberian. I'm not sure why you are saying that H4 is an incorrectly published haplogroup, although I do agree that experts don't share all the information they have, that there should be more transparency. However, I think the main problem we have in the H4 haplogroup is its scarcity, and also the wierd distribution of it in the world now. Look, I am in a Facebook group called Iberia ADN, with more than 2000 members, and I am the ONLY H4 in the group. I read in a scientific paper that regarding the Iberian peninsula, H4 is present in less than 5% only in the northern part. In the FTDNA H4 project there are many H4s from the British Isles, but also from Sweden, Poland, Austria...Apparently, there are also quite a few in northern Africa and Arabia. The distribution is wierd. I agree there should be more information, but I think even experts don't know what to do with this 'funny' haplogroup.

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## Judith

We are certainly a wierd HG, all over Europe, and hence America too. I am H4a1a1a with 6 extra mutations.
The scientists are not so keen to use us and hence tell us where all of the sub clades come from because it is too unclear. So it is up to us amateurs!
There is a useful technique we have discovered for 23&me results:
Upload your autosomal 23&me to FTDNA (and get more matches, about 10% of 23&me or FTDNA ones)
Apply to join the H4 project
Upload your mtDNA to James Lick and paste the results onto a document and email the H4 volunteer admins with it explaining why you have asked to join the H4 project.
I have proved that it works by doing it.

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## MsJ

Hello all! I am new to Eupedia. According to 23andme I am H4a2. I cannot find anything on that subclass except that it exists. When I used James Licke's calculator I received H4a1c1a as my best match except that the mutation at H4a that moves me to H4a1 is missing. So is that why 23andme put me in H4a2? Maybe? My earliest maternal ancestor that I know was an Elizabeth Derryberry whose surname was Anglicized from Durrengberger. There is speculation that her maternal grandmother was a Dekker from Bayern. But it's really just a guess and I was hoping my tDNA would shed some light. But I'm just more confused!

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## Youcef1825

Hi everyone, 

I'm from North-East Algeria, from a city called Jijel along the mediterranean sea, and my mtDNA haplogroup has just been tested as H4a1a by FTDNA.

I've spent the day searching for its origins and its history, but found nothing, except that it is very rare and spread all over Europe and the Near East, but it's rare everywhere ..

I'm just like all of you, searching for some information about H4.

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## astanton

I'm also an H4a and wish I could get more information online about it. It's rare accounting for 5% of Poland's population, which is where I was born. Outside of Poland it is even more rare so apparently there are not a lot of us around. Besides Warren Buffet having it, does anyone know of any famous people with that haplogroup? 






> Hi all,
> 
> 
> new to this site, I am looking for information on my mitochondrial haplogroup, which seems underrepresented: H4a. I do not find enough information on the internet, and the few that I find not do me much ...
> I saw that it would have appeared on the shores of the Black Sea there are about 12,000 years and is present mainly in Poland and Ireland. On another site, someone also said that there would be a lot of carries this haplogroup on the shores of the North Sea.
> My maternal line from Switzerland, so far enough from Poland or Ireland, I wonder what historical tribes attach this haplogroup, what population movements, which would justify the presence of H4a in the depths of the canton of Freiburg lol.

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## roberto1960

I am Y R-Z43 MT H5F I am from ITALY florence tuscany

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## WickedWise

I just received my 23andMe results as well and I am H4a. I live in the US and my mother was adopted so I know very little on her side. My results came back as:
99.5% European
50.2% Ashkenazi Jewish
34.2% NW European - 22.6% Scandinavian, 5.5% British & Irish, 6.2% Broadly European
10.5% Eastern European
0.3% Southern European - 0.3% Broadly S. European
4.3% Broadly European
0.5% East Asian & Native American
<0.1% Sub-Saharan African
MtDNA H4a

I don't talk to my father and all my grandparents have passed away but of course I can only assume the same of my mothers birth parents. 
I'm just pretty much digging around looking for information to expand what I have found. 
I do know that the genetic disease gene, Alpha-1 Antitrypsin Deficiency, that I carry (MZ) most likely came from my mother's Scandinavian side. It was originally most prevalent there. I also have Leri's Disease/Melorheostosis in my foot but due to its rarity they haven't made any genetic connections although many sufferers have multiple family members with it. 
So, I suppose that is my story.
I'm glad to have found a bit of information here and I hope we find more as a team!

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## Judith

> Hi everyone, 
> 
> I'm from North-East Algeria, from a city called Jijel along the mediterranean sea, and my mtDNA haplogroup has just been tested as H4a1a by FTDNA.
> 
> I've spent the day searching for its origins and its history, but found nothing, except that it is very rare and spread all over Europe and the Near East, but it's rare everywhere ..
> 
> I'm just like all of you, searching for some information about H4.


Hi Jijel, have you joined the ftdna project? It is probably our best chance of tracking ourselves back! Judith

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## Judith

> I just received my 23andMe results as well and I am H4a. I live in the US and my mother was adopted so I know very little on her side. My results came back as:
> 99.5% European
> 50.2% Ashkenazi Jewish
> 34.2% NW European - 22.6% Scandinavian, 5.5% British & Irish, 6.2% Broadly European
> 10.5% Eastern European
> 0.3% Southern European - 0.3% Broadly S. European
> 4.3% Broadly European
> 0.5% East Asian & Native American
> <0.1% Sub-Saharan African
> ...


Hi wickedwise
You mother is adopted but you do have Scandinavian too so was she adopted locally in Scandinavia?
Are you Ashkenazy on your father’s side?You will be sure that the ethnicity suggested is true because you will have many 1000s of 3-5th cousins.
23&me have many interest groups some of which are on the health aspects and maybe one of your inherited diseases may be a topic too. The only way the actual part of the gene which causes each disease get identified is by lots of people testing. Between us we hold many of the answers if we but knew it! If your interests are not a group there then form one. As you say it *must* be genetic when it runs in families. Hope you find more insight in it all.

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## davef

wickedwise is without a speck of doubt half Ashkenazi. 23andme is the best at finding Ashkenazi patterns.

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## [email protected]

Hi am Casey I did the 23andme DNA test my maternal haplogroup was H4a I have 36% French and German mine said it was traced back to Marie Antoinette and Coprenicus.

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## Reta Grant

We share the same group. My family emigrated from England in 1840's as Mormons who later settled in the West, some in Utah. I live in Florida. There are still descendants here, in Utah, Michigan. It may have been that Mormons also settled in New Zealand. I have been to New Zealand several times and thoroughly enjoyed it and the people there.

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## RVBlake

I am HG H4a1, as determined by FTDNA. I have an extensive family tree constructed , and my earliest documented maternal ancestor, the progenitor of my H4a1 line, is Perrine Reau, born c. 1611 in Poitou-Charente, France. I shall investigate the H4 Project at FTDNA.

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## kuzmosi

Hi again RVBlake cousin!

My paternal grandfather's mtDNA HG: H4A1A4B according to the Genographic project. Earliest known mother: Maria Horvath, born 1801 Balkany, Szabolcs county Hungary. Religion: Catholic.

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## mc123clark

I’m a Maternal haplogroup H .... traced back to 
marie Antoinette, and many other royals including the current Prince Philip 
... very cool and exciting .. can’t wait to explore more

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## I-L205.1

Dear Marie-Louise,

we are probably related maternally. My brother is doing genealogical research at the moment and we are H4. In the maternal line he has so far reached Charlotta Ryding who was born in 1848 and her mother Sara Olofsdotter. They lived in Hjälstad, Skaraborgs län. If you are interested I can get back to you when we have reached further down in the maternal line.

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## Eochaidh

My mtDNA is H4a1a4b and my maternal line is New Jersey (USA) Quakers who were earlier than the famous Pennsylvania Quakers. They seem to have come from the poor Pennines area of west Yorkshire in England. This area is on the west side of the Danelaw near Jorvik, so a Scandinavian maternal line is consistent. I generally get 1% or 2% Scandinavian in my aDNA and considering my other components, the best fit is also on my maternal line.

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## Conastoga

May I share info I collected over the years to help some here?

H4 is among the oldest H clades. There is 60 maximum mutations found so far. "Haplogroup H4 is a branch on the maternal tree of human kind. Its age is between 9,100 and 12,100 years (Behar et al., 2012b)..." "Haplogroup H is a branch on the maternal tree of human kind. The woman who founded this line lived between 12,100 and 13,600 years ago (Behar et al., 2012b)..." Haplogroup HV is a branch on the maternal tree of human kind. The woman who founded this line lived between 19,100 and 24,700 years ago (Behar et al., 2012b)..." "Haplogroup R0 is a branch on the maternal tree of human kind. Its age is between 28,900 and 51,100 years (Behar et al., 2012b)." "Haplogroup R is a branch on the maternal tree of human kind. Its age is between 54,400 and 58,600 years (Behar et al., 2012b)."

The origination is Southwestern Asia, otherwise the Arabian Peninsula of Egypt and the Levant; eastern Mediterranean and Riverine coastal fisherman/forager. They migrated along the coast and up rivers into Anatolia and along the coast of Greece, to include the riverines north westerly toward Black Sea and Caspian Sea. Over time, the daughters of R find themselves from West Europe to the Mammoth Steppe of the Ukraine and Russia. As the Last Glacial Maximum (LGM) zenith, They took refuge south. Those on the west of Europe took refuge in the Iberian, those of east Europe took refuge toward Anatolia. Those on the Mammoth Steppes took refuge through Georgia between the Caspian and Black Sea, and those easterly took refuge Turkmenistan and Afghanistan. After a couple millennia of thawing beginning around 14,000 BE, the Younger Dryas Catastrophe (10,900-9,600 BCE) hit worse than the LGM. Many people perished and mega fauna became extinct, explaining in simple terms. It was about 8,000 BCE people recovered and began expanding again into the north which now becoming a thickly forested interior of Europe. From the Iberian Peninsula, the migration was along the Atlantic Coast, up rivers and into Doggerland. The Alps and thick interior European forests was one reason for the migration routes. The Neolithic,Chalcolithic andthe following Bronze Age (Bell Beaker Folk), each period was late in the British Isles. Beakers came to the English Channel from the west coast originating on the western Mediterranean coast. Some scholars report the Bell Beaker Folk arise about 3,000 BCE and have connections with Yamnaya pastoralist (2900-1800 BCE) in northern Italy (south of the Alps) bring the horse into Spain about 2,900 BCE. They bring the Bronze Age trade to western Europe replacing the Corded Ware culture and arrive in the British Isles about 2,400 BCE. DNA shows us that the western British Isles and Ireland was populated from the direction of the Atlantic Coast. The Neolithic or farming culture was impeded by the thick forest migrating towards the Baltic Sea. There was a climate change called the Piora Oscillation beginning about 3,900 BCE which was very wet and cold in western Europe, which is not good for standing grain crops. Pardon my digression...

I spent a number of recent years researching my matrilineal H4a1. My ancestral grandmother came from Wales.

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## Strudel

I am new here and have recently found out from 23andme that my mtdna haplogroup is the less common one of *H4a1a1a*. Like others have noted, there is still not much known about this hg. I can offer to post some of my regional results from GEDMATCH or other places, but it would be helpful to know which is the most meaningful ones to do. 

I can say so far my earliest known maternal ancestor is my grandmother who was born in the Trier area of Germany in 1912, is culturally and linguistically German. To the best of knowledge my maternal line has been only in Continental Europe with perhaps a recent earlier connection to the alpine region of Europe. I have no known British Isles connection as per paper trail ancestors. 

23andme Ancestral Composition:

59.6% French & German 
14.3% Broadly NW European
7.7% Eastern European
6.8% Broadly European
3.3% British & Irish (*specifically Argyll and Orkney using GEDMATCH - is this Norse admixture?) 
3.2% Italian* (shows up more more in GEDMATCH) 
2.4% Broadly Southern European* (shows up more in GEDMATCH) 
1% Iberian* (The Iberian shows up somewhat more in deeper GEDMATCH analysis) 
0.6% Scandinavian
0.4% Ashkenazi Jewish
0.4% Broadly Asian & North African 
0.1% Native American

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## Judith

Hi Strudel

Many H4a1a1a people are from Uk and Ireland simply because that is where a large numbers of testers come from, plus the USA/Canada/Australia emigration if you have not read the H4 pages on the ftdna mtdna then please see what you think.
The link is https://www.familytreedna.com/groups...out/background
if you want to join there are instructions on the site and in this thread. It does not cost you anything.

The numbers of people from Germany in each sub-clade are on line there.
Gedmatch uses sample populations and Orkney is one of them together with south east England (Kent) so my northern England comes out as a mix of those two.
Eurogenes K13 is good for Europeans and K36 for world http://bga101.blogspot.com/2013/03/e...-gedmatch.html
But different calculators help for different groups of people for instance the J test for Ashkenazy Jewish lines. 
Have fun, but it is only for fun to learn a bit about our origins.







> I am new here and have recently found out from 23andme that my mtdna haplogroup is the less common one of *H4a1a1a*. Like others have noted, there is still not much known about this hg. I can offer to post some of my regional results from GEDMATCH or other places, but it would be helpful to know which is the most meaningful ones to do. 
> 
> I can say so far my earliest known maternal ancestor is my grandmother who was born in the Trier area of Germany in 1912, is culturally and linguistically German. To the best of knowledge my maternal line has been only in Continental Europe with perhaps a recent earlier connection to the alpine region of Europe. I have no known British Isles connection as per paper trail ancestors. 
> 
> 23andme Ancestral Composition:
> 
> 59.6% French & German 
> 14.3% Broadly NW European
> 7.7% Eastern European
> ...

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## alison

Hi

I'm new here my hapla group is H4a1a4b1. My ancesters I know of where all English origin. So finding my results confusing. Interesting to see others on here with similar dna and find out how we're connected. Not really sure what I'm doing yet with the information but do have detailed family trees available online.

Alison

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