# Population Genetics > Y-DNA Haplogroups >  Nikola Tesla was not I2a but R1a

## Tomenable

Apparently they've recently tested more male relatives of the famous inventor.

Google Translated:

"The Serbian-American inventor Nikola Tesla most probably does not belong to the haplogroup I-CTS10228. The first tested Tesla with haplogroup I2a is most likely the descendant of a man who entered Tesla and got the last name of Tesla through the female line. The man's name was Kalinic.

The tested second Tesla was tested two months ago and belongs to the haplogroup R1a-M458 and has a family tree and is directly related to Nikola Tesla by the male line. Direct ancestor of Tesla belonging to R1a and grandfather of Nikola Tesla were born brothers.

We will have to wait to test another or possibly two Tesla to have a final confirmation. However, it is almost certain that Nikola Tesla had a haplogroup R1a. Because Tesla was tested in close association with Nikola Tesla, four knees *(?)* share them with common ancestors.

Tested Tesla's 2 test done at Belgrade's Serbia, DNA lab. The result is:

DYS393, DYS390, DYS19, DYS385a, DYS385b, DYS439, DYS389i, DYS392, DYS389ii, DYS458, DYS437, DYS448, YGATAH4, DYS456, DYS576, DYS570, DYS438, DYS481, DYS549, DYS533, DYS635, DYS643

13 25 16 10 11-14--12 13 11 29 16-----14 20------11--17-19 21---11 25 12 12 23 10

R1a-M458> CTS11962"

Source: www.poreklo.rs, Serbian DNA.

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## Tomenable

More about it:




> Some guy with surname Tesla was tested few year ago and he is I2-PH908, but he say that he is not real Tesla, because his ancestor married some Tesla girl and adopted her surname, real surname of his ancestor was Kalinić.
> 
> Other guy with surname Tesla was tested about 2 month ago, he is from Lika from same village as Tesla's father (that guy and Tesla have a common ancestor in the male line) and he is *R1a-M458*.

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## davef

Nikola Tesla rocks

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## Wonomyro

duplicate post - deleted

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## Wonomyro

There is a dispute on the origin of Nikola Tesla. Croatians believe that he was descended from a Croatian noble family Draganić. The claim is based on Tesla's own words found in his diary. The person who saw the diary is slavist and historian Ljubica Štefan. According to Štefan, Tesla wrote the following: (translated by Bing and corrected by myself) 


> I'm glad that also Croats think that I belong to them because my ancestors are from Croatian noble family Draganići from Zadar. As the Croatian nobles in the 16th century, they came to Lika and stayed. Into Lika my ancestors got via Novi Vinodolski. My mother's ancestors, the Kalinić's, are also Croatian noblemen from Novi Vinodolski. My great-grandfather due to circumstances had to leave to the Bosnian Krajina and there he married an Orthodox girl and converted to Eastern Orthodoxy. He had the protruding front teeth so people called him Tesla to the tools with which one process wood and from that comes my current surname of Tesla. It is actually a nickname. My grandfather was an officer in the Lika Regiment, and my father, an Orthodox priest.


 Lika, Zadar and Novi Vinodolski are regions and cities in Croatia all close to each other.

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## vcovaci

Well nobody was actually certain the Serbian inventor did belong to hg I2a:

_The Serbian-American scientist and inventor Nikola Tesla (1856-1943), most famous for his work on the modern alternating current (AC) electricity supply system, the induction motor, the Tesla coil, etc., is thought to have belonged to haplogroup I2a-Din-S (L147.2+). The Serbian DNA Project at Poreklo has tested a Tesla from the same village as Nikola's father, who is very likely from the same Tesla line._ (http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplog...#famous_people)

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## twójstary

How come he's "Germano-Slavic"? Was "West Slavic" so hard to swallow, must there be "German" in it? I know Maciamo's article about Poland is one-sided, but seems like not only article is.

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## Bachus

This is true, Tesla was R1a-M48 (L1029).

Family of Nikola Tesla originated from Raška (Old Serbia), they moved from Raška to Herzegovina, from Herzegovina they moved to northern Dalmatia, and around 1690. they settled in Lika.

Old surmame of Tesla's ancestors was Draganić.
Surname Tesla was created because some ancestor of Tesla had crooked teets similar as tool Adze (Adze is Tesla in Serbian), and because of that he got a nickname Tesla which later became surname. 

https://sr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Тесла_(алатка)

https://sr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Никола_Тесла

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## Bachus

> Well nobody was actually certain the Serbian inventor did belong to hg I2a:
> 
> _The Serbian-American scientist and inventor Nikola Tesla (1856-1943), most famous for his work on the modern alternating current (AC) electricity supply system, the induction motor, the Tesla coil, etc., is thought to have belonged to haplogroup I2a-Din-S (L147.2+). The Serbian DNA Project at Poreklo has tested a Tesla from the same village as Nikola's father, who is very likely from the same Tesla line._ (http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplog...#famous_people)


Nikola Tesla was R1a-M458 without any doubt.

Guy with surname Tesla which is tested and who is R1a-M458 have common ancestor with Tesla by male line.

Guy with surmame Tesla who is I2-PH908 is not real Tesla, because his ancestor have surname Kalinić and he was adopted surname Tesla because he was married for some girl from Tesla family and took her surname.

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## LeBrok

> Nikola Tesla was R1a-M458* without any doubt.*
> 
> Guy with surname Tesla which is tested and who is R1a-M458 have common ancestor with Tesla by male line.
> 
> Guy with surmame Tesla who is I2-PH908 is not real Tesla, because his ancestor have surname Kalinić and he was adopted surname Tesla because he was married for some girl from Tesla family and took her surname.


Please, listen to yourself...
1. Fatherhood is not 100% sure thing, neither Tesla's or his family descendents.
2. People change last names.

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## Bachus

> Please, listen to yourself...
> 1. Fatherhood is not 100% sure thing, neither Tesla's or his family descendents.
> 2. People change last names.


Great-grandfather of guy who is I2-PH908 was changer last name from Kallinić to Tesla, because he is married with girl from family Tesla and adopted her last name.

Guy who is R1a-M458 is real Tesla, and he had common ancestor by male line with Nikola Tesla.

Few guys with last name Tesla who had common ancestors by male line with Nikola Tesla will be tested very soon and soon we will know 100% what is haplogroup of Nikola Tesla. 
He was probably R1a-M458, it is very small chance that he was I2-PH908, but we will see.

Look at here (almost at the end of the page) *Тесла* (Tesla in Cyrillic) https://dnk.poreklo.rs/tabela-pojedi...grp-filter=R1a

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## Lenab

Tesla was so blatantly Dinaric and I2 variant a blind man could see.

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## Bachus

> Tesla was so blatantly Dinaric and I2 variant a blind man could see.


Y DNA is not often related with physical appearance.

I know some guys who are E-V13 and J2b which have blonde hair, blue eyes and pale skin, and I also know some guys who are I1 and R1a which are swarthy.

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## Lenab

> Y DNA is not often related with physical appearance.
> 
> I know some guys who are E-V13 and J2b which have blonde hair, blue eyes and pale skin, and I also know some guys who are I1 and R1a which are swarthy.


Yes because it's not Neolithic that is associated with swarthiness like people falsify and claim, but WHG

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## Angela

Just so everyone is clear: MN people did not look like modern day Norwegians. It's true that WHG were, however, probably darker than the incoming Neolithic farmers, although they had blue eyes. SHG samples included blonde, blue eyed, fair skinned people, and EHG had fair skin and brown hair and brown eyes. On an individual level yDna and mtDna don't necessarily correlate with certain skin tones. Those alleles are on the autosomes. 

Now, it's time to get back to the topic, which IS NOT pigmentation.

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## stevenarmstrong

> Great-grandfather of guy who is I2-PH908 was changer last name from Kallinić to Tesla, because he is married with girl from family Tesla and adopted her last name.
> 
> Guy who is R1a-M458 is real Tesla, and he had common ancestor by male line with Nikola Tesla.
> 
> Few guys with last name Tesla who had common ancestors by male line with Nikola Tesla will be tested very soon and soon we will know 100% what is haplogroup of Nikola Tesla. 
> He was probably R1a-M458, it is very small chance that he was I2-PH908, but we will see.
> 
> Look at here (almost at the end of the page) *Тесла* (Tesla in Cyrillic) https://dnk.poreklo.rs/tabela-pojedi...grp-filter=R1a


The only way you could know Nicola Tesla's haplogroup with absolute certainty is if you found the body of Nicola Tesla and had it tested. Testing known relatives will only tell us his LIKELY haplogroup. There's always the possibility of a "non-paternity event."

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## davef

> The only way you could know Nicola Tesla's haplogroup with absolute certainty is if you found the body of Nicola Tesla and had it tested. Testing known relatives will only tell us his LIKELY haplogroup. There's always the possibility of a "non-paternity event."


I doubt his y-DNA being r1-a was responsible for his intellectual capacity, otherwise everyone with that Y chromosome would be as smart as he was (hint: hardly anyone is as smart).

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## Bachus

> The only way you could know Nicola Tesla's haplogroup with absolute certainty is if you found the body of Nicola Tesla and had it tested. Testing known relatives will only tell us his LIKELY haplogroup. There's always the possibility of a "non-paternity event."


Body of Nikola Tesla was burned in cremation.

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## Lenab

Yep so it's just open to speculation

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## mihaitzateo

Is not known what HG Tesla had.
Does Tesla has any brothers that left descendants?
No!
He had a brother that died young,without descendants.
Tesla's body is not available for Y DNA testing, either.
Besides, the ethnicity of a person is not given by his Y DNA.
Not even the genetics is given by Y DNA, genetics is obtained through autosomal testing.

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## Lenab

> Is not known what HG Tesla had.
> Does Tesla has any brothers that left descendants?
> No!
> He had a brother that died young,without descendants.


Lol there is a quote by him I am not sure if it's real or not, stating that he didn't want to get to know women or be in a relationship because they are nothing but trouble and they will screw with his head and work.

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## Bachus

> Is not known what HG Tesla had.
> Does Tesla has any brothers that left descendants?
> No!
> He had a brother that died young,without descendants.
> Tesla's body is not available for Y DNA testing, either.
> Besides, the ethnicity of a person is not given by his Y DNA.
> Not even the genetics is given by Y DNA, genetics is obtained through autosomal testing.


Father of Nikola Tesla had brother, and that unlce of Tesla had male offspring.

Descendant of Tesla's uncle (father's brother) by direct male line live today in Serbia, he was tested and he is R1a-M458 (L1029).

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## Lenab

> Father of Nikola Tesla had brother, and that unlce of Tesla had male offspring.
> 
> Descendant of Tesla's uncle (father's brother) by direct male line live today in Serbia, he was tested and he is R1a-M458 (L1029).


How come he is so blatantly Dinaric then? My ex who was partly Macedonian partly Cretan and very dramatic features was R1b too that's kinda odd.

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## Dibran

Interesting his fatherline was from Northwest Macedonia originally. Could be an assimilated Avaro-Slav, or even Bulgar. Assuming M458-L1029

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## Dibran

> How come he is so blatantly Dinaric then? My ex who was partly Macedonian partly Cretan and very dramatic features was R1b too that's kinda odd.



Dude, Haplo has jack to do with phenotype. Albanians have some of the most Dinarics. Most of which are from northwest Albania, whom, up to this point are predominantly E-V13 and J2b. Some ones already told you something similar so its probably going to go over your head.

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## Lenab

> Dude, Haplo has jack to do with phenotype. Albanians have some of the most Dinarics. Most of which are from northwest Albania, whom, up to this point are predominantly E-V13 and J2b. Some ones already told you something similar so its probably going to go over your head.


''Haplogroups have nothing to do with phenotype'' not one haplogroup might not have much to do with phenotype, but a whole load of them would. 

Serbians have a lot of Dinarics too I live in the UK but I have a few Serbian and Croat friends, only one Serbian friend of mine is a Slavic type the rest are Dinaric.

Trouble is during Neolithic in the Balkans South East Europe almost all of the phenotypes were East Alpine, and Mediterranean.

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## Bachus

> Interesting his fatherline was from Northwest Macedonia originally. Could be an assimilated Avaro-Slav, or even Bulgar. Assuming M458-L1029


Tesla have nothing to do with Macedonia, his deepest origin is from Raška (Sjenica) which is Old Serbia.

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## Wonomyro

> Tesla have nothing to do with Macedonia, his *deepest origin* is from Raška (Sjenica) which is Old Serbia.


 How deep? ....

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## Bachus

> How deep? ....


Ancestors of Tesla lived in Raška in the middle age, they migrated from Raška to Herzegovina in 15th century, from Herzegovina they migrated to northern Dalmatia (near Knin) in first half of 16th century, and from northern Dalmatia around year 1690 they migrated to southern Lika in village Raduč where is born father of Nikola Tesla.
Nikola Tesla was born in Smiljan because his father was priest in Smiljan, his ancestors lived in Raduč since 1690 which is southern Lika and Smiljan is central Lika. 

Previous surname of Tesla's ancestors were Draganić, and even today village Draganiće exist near Sjenica, also village Draganići exist near Raška town in southwestern Serbia https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draganići

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## Wonomyro

> Ancestors of Tesla lived in Raška in the middle age, they migrated from Raška to Herzegovina in 15th century, from Herzegovina they migrated to northern Dalmatia (near Knin) in first half of 16th century, and from northern Dalmatia around year 1690 they migrated to southern Lika in village Raduč where is born father of Nikola Tesla.
> Nikola Tesla was born in Smiljan because his father was priest in Smiljan, his ancestors lived in Raduč since 1690 which is southern Lika and Smiljan is central Lika. 
> 
> Previous surname of Tesla's ancestors were Draganić, and even today village Draganiće exist near Sjenica, also village Draganići exist near Raška town in southwestern Serbia https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draganići


What reliable document or source provides that? There is also a municipality called Draganići in Croatia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragan...arlovac_County




> *Draganić* is municipality in Karlovac County, Croatia. The municipality consists of the villages of Lug, Goljak, Mrzljaki, Jazvaci, Darići, Budrovci, Bencetici, Barkovići, Draganići, Lazina, Franetici, Vrbanci, and Vrh.[1]
> The combined population is 2,950,[2] of whom 97% are Croats.[3]
> 
> Draganić is a birthplace of Ivan Biličić and Marija Barković, paternal grandparents of Bill Belichick, an American football head coach


Also Draganići are the medieval Croatian noble family:

http://plemstvo.hr/obitelji/draganicvrancic




> Dragoja, prvi je Draganich, koji se spominje u kronikama grada Šibenika i to 1332. godine (Duišin 1938)


First Draganich was mentioned in the chronicles of city of Šibenik as soon as in 1332. That is far before 16th century.

Šibenik is here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%A0ibenik

And Smiljan, birthplace of Nikola Tesla is here:

https://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smiljan

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## mihaitzateo

There are also theories that Nicolas Tesla was ethnic Vlach.
He did spoken in Romanian with Henri Coanda.

Anyway, he was born and raised in Serbia. Not matter what Y DNA he had he was part Serbian,part American because a large part of his life he lived in the US.
EDIT:
I think Tesla was more American that Serbian, because a larger part of his life he lived in the US.

As for YDNA being linked to ethnicity I highly doubt any of the states:
US,Russia, European Union states, China or UK and rest of Commonwealth states will grant you citizenship because you have a certain Y DNA.
If you have I1 and you are not a citizen of one of the Nordic Council states, go ask citizenship to Finland,Norway,Denmark,Sweden,Iceland invoking the reason that you are bearing I1 as paternal line.
See what will happen :) .

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## Wonomyro

> There are also theories that Nicolas Tesla was ethnic Vlach.
> He did spoken in Romanian with Henri Coanda.
> 
> *Anyway, he was born and raised in Serbia*. Not matter what Y DNA he had he was part Serbian,part American because a large part of his life he lived in the US.
> EDIT:
> I think Tesla was more American that Serbian, because a larger part of his life he lived in the US.


Where did you get that?  :Laughing:  Nikola Tesla visited Serbia (Belgrade) only once in his life. I think it was a one-day visit. He was already famous then and the Serbian politicians wanted to take selfies...  :Grin: 

I don't understand why people, especially those from Serbia, are trying so hard to obscure the Tesla's origin. He was born in Smiljan, a village in Croatia near a city of Gospić where he attended the middle school. His Serbian identity is due the fact that his father was a priest of a Serbian Orthodox Church. The confessional preferences made that the Orthodox population in Croatia later opted for a Serbian identity rather then Croatan which is predominantly Chatholic. The legends that tell they all came from Serbia was just a nation building mithology.

Even an English wikipedia stated this: 




> Born and raised in the *Austrian Empire*, Tesla received an advanced education in engineering and physics in the 1870s and gained practical experienc


Sadly, not a single word that it was actualy Croatia. It is so weird.

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## Dibran

> There are also theories that Nicolas Tesla was ethnic Vlach.
> He did spoken in Romanian with Henri Coanda.
> 
> Anyway, he was born and raised in Serbia. Not matter what Y DNA he had he was part Serbian,part American because a large part of his life he lived in the US.
> EDIT:
> I think Tesla was more American that Serbian, because a larger part of his life he lived in the US.
> 
> As for YDNA being linked to ethnicity I highly doubt any of the states:
> US,Russia, European Union states, China or UK and rest of Commonwealth states will grant you citizenship because you have a certain Y DNA.
> ...


He was born in Croatia, which was then part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. His father is of Serbian descent. But he himself nor his family was born in Serbia.

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## Bachus

> There are also theories that Nicolas Tesla was ethnic Vlach.
> He did spoken in Romanian with Henri Coanda.
> 
> Anyway, he was born and raised in Serbia. Not matter what Y DNA he had he was part Serbian,part American because a large part of his life he lived in the US.
> EDIT:
> I think Tesla was more American that Serbian, because a larger part of his life he lived in the US.
> 
> As for YDNA being linked to ethnicity I highly doubt any of the states:
> US,Russia, European Union states, China or UK and rest of Commonwealth states will grant you citizenship because you have a certain Y DNA.
> ...


Tesla have nothing to do with Vlachs.
Native village of Nikola Tesla is located around 200 km from Istria where it was few Vlachs (Istroromanian/Ćići) villages.
Nikola Tesla was pure and proud Serb, and Croatian and Romanian wishes about that he was Croatian or Romanian origin are just lunatic fantasies.

Real Vlach haplogroups are eastern R1b, E1b and J2b2, Tesla was R1a-M458 and even if he was I2a-Din he is still Slavic, because R1a-M458 and I2a-Din are both Slavic.

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## Bachus

> He was born in Croatia, which was then part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. His father is of Serbian descent. But he himself nor his family was born in Serbia.


Ancestors of Nikola Tesla came to Lika region (in village Raduč https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raduč) in year 1690 from northern Dalmatia, to northern Dalmaria they came from Herzegovina in first half of 16th century and in Herzegovina they came from Raška (Old Serbia) in 15th century.

Ancestors of Nikola Tesla lived in Raška region (sothwestern Serbia), probably near town Sjenica https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sjenica

Milutin Tesla father of Nikola Tesla is born in village Raduč in Lika, ancestors of Tesla lived in Raduč since 1690 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raduč#Notable_people

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## Wonomyro

duplicate deleted

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## Wonomyro

> Nikola Tesla was *pure and proud Serb*, and Croatian and Romanian wishes about that he was Croatian or Romanian origin are just lunatic fantasies.


Let us suppose that this family theory you told us is true (which is highly questionable):




> Ancestors of Tesla lived in Raška in the middle age, *they migrated from Raška to Herzegovina in 15th century, from Herzegovina they migrated to northern Dalmatia (near Knin) in first half of 16th century, and from northern Dalmatia around year 1690 they migrated to southern Lika in village Raduč where is born father of Nikola Tesla*.


How many ancestors who lived 400-500 years ago a person can have? Do you realy believe that all of them were “pure Serbs”, taking into an account that the "family" lived practically all that time in Croatia? Imagine that the similar family emigrated into France or Italy. How “pure Serbs” would their members be after 400 years?

And Republic of Serbia named Belgrade Airport after a person whose ancestor is believed (not sure) originated on the territory of Serbia *500 years ago*!!!

 :Useless:

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## Bachus

> Let us suppose that this family theory you told us is true (which is highly questionable): How many ancestors who lived 400-500 years ago a person can have? Do you believe that all of them were “pure Serbs”, taking into an account that the family lived practically all that time in Croatia? Imagine that the similar family emigrated into France or Italy. How “pure Serbs” would their members be after 400 years?


When I say ancestors of Nikola Tesla I'm thinking of paternal line.
But all other ancestors of Tesla (not only by paternal line) were Serbs, for example mother of Nikola Tesla (Đuka) was also Serbian from family Mandić.

Untile 1995 native village of Nikola Tesla Raduč was pure Serbian village for many centuries, and not only Raduč, southern Lika, northern Dalmatia and western Bosnia had Serbian majority in the last 5 centuries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raduč#...n/Demographics

Until 1995 there was only 2 villages near Raduč with Croatian (Bunjevci) majority; Lovinac and Sveti Rok.

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## Wonomyro

> When I say ancestors of Nikola Tesla I'm thinking of paternal line.
> But all ancestors of Tesala (not only by paternal line) were Serbs, for example mother of Nikola Tesla is also Serbian from family Mandić.
> 
> Native village of Nikola Tesla Raduča were pure Serbian village for many centuries, and not only Raduč, southern Lika, northern Dalmatian and western Bosnia had Serbian majority in the last 5 centuries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raduč#...n/Demographics
> 
> Until 1995 there was only 2 villages near Raduč with Croatian (Bunjevci) majority; Lovinac and Sveti Rok.


These villages were often exchanging the brides and there were many faith conversions as well. There was no genetic "purity" there. Nor cultural nor confessional.

By the end of the 19th century and beginning of the 20th century the Orthodox believers opted for modern Serbian national identity under the influence of the Orthodox priests, even though they had no relations to Serbia whatsoever. However some member of Tesla clan were still keeping their Croatian identity before WWI for which we know from US immigration records.

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## Bachus

> These villages were often exchanging the brides and there were many faith conversions as well. There was no genetic "purity" there. Nor cultural nor confessional.
> 
> By the end of the 19th century and beginning of the 20th century the Orthodox believers opted for modern Serbian national identity under the influence of the Orthodox priests, even though they had no relations to Serbia whatsoever. However some member of Tesla clan were still keeping their Croatian identity before WWI for which we know from US immigration records.


Nikola Tesla was not of Croatian origin.

Father of Nikola Tesla was Milutin Tesla and he was Orthodox priest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla#Early_years

Milutin is pure Serbian name, Serbian king from middle age was Milutin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan_Milutin

Deal with it.

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## Wonomyro

> Nikola Tesla was not of Croatian origin.
> 
> Father of Nikola Tesla was Milutin Tesla and he was Orthodox priest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla#Early_years
> 
> *Milutin is pure Serbian name, Serbian king from middle age was Milutin* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan_Milutin
> 
> Deal with it.


Then I assume that Hannibal Lecter is probably Carthaginian?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal_Lecter

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal

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## Bachus

> Then I assume that Hannibal Lecter is probably Carthaginian?
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal_Lecter
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hannibal



Hannibal Lecter is fictional person which have nothing to do with Carthaginians.
Unlike Hannibal Lecter Mulutin Tesla was real person of same nationality as king Milutin.

If Tesla was Croatian his father should be Krešimir, Domagoj or Tomislav, and not Milutin same as Serbian king.

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## Wonomyro

> Hannibal Lecter is fictional person which have nothing to do with Carthaginians.
> Unlike Hannibal Lecter Mulutin Tesla was real person of same nationality as king Milutin.
> 
> If Tesla was Croatian his father should be Krešimir, Domagoj or Tomislav, and not Milutin same as Serbian king.


OK, if Mr. Lecter wasn’t good example, let’s take the name Tomislav for instance which is quite popular in Serbia. Tomislav was Croatian king. Does it mean that the Serbs with that name are actually Croats? 

It is true that Serbian churches are full of portraits of Serbian medieval lords. Among them is Milutin as this fresco shows:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Milutinst.jpg

What could one expect of an average believer of Serbian Church then to name his children after these people? However, that has nothing to do with the religion, ethnicity or genetics of their ancestors.

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## Zvrk9

Tesla himself put an end to the debate in 1936, when he sent a telegram to Croatian politician Vlatko Macek, that read: 


"Thank you very much for your much-appreciated greetings and honors, I am equally proud of my Serb origin and my Croat homeland. Long live all Yugoslavs."

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## Wonomyro

> Tesla himself put an end to the debate in 1936, when he sent a telegram to Croatian politician Vlatko Macek, that read: "Thank you very much for your much-appreciated greetings and honors, I am equally proud of my *Serb origin and my Croat homeland*. Long live all Yugoslavs."


These were not his own words but Maček's. 

Tesla only politely confirmed. Some words are not properly translated to English. The Croatian word "rod" means kin, not origin. The sentence reflects the knowledge and ideas of its time. It was already a period of Yugoslavia when a process of national identification of the Croatian Orthodox believers as Serbs was already finished. A public perception was that they all were Serbs by the ethnicity. 

However, we speak here about the older origin which could had been different.

Edit: We'd like to see what is written about it in Tesla's secret diary which is hold in Belgrade.

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## Dibran

> These were not his own words but Maček's. 
> 
> Tesla only politely confirmed. Some words are not properly translated to English. The Croatian word "rod" means kin, not origin. The sentence reflects the knowledge and ideas of its time. It was already a period of Yugoslavia when a process of national identification of the Croatian Orthodox believers as Serbs was already finished. A public perception was that they all were Serbs by the ethnicity. 
> 
> However, we speak here about the older origin which could had been different.
> 
> Edit: We'd like to see what is written about it in Tesla's secret diary which is hold in Belgrade.


Well, his earliest ancestor was from Northwest Macedonia right? So, chances are his earliest known ancestor was a Bulgarian, Vlach, or Serb. His mother was Croatian, no? So, he is at least 50/50. What seems to be the issue of dispute between the two of you?

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## Bachus

> Well, his earliest ancestor was from Northwest Macedonia right? So, chances are his earliest known ancestor was a Bulgarian, Vlach, or Serb. His mother was Croatian, no? So, he is at least 50/50. What seems to be the issue of dispute between the two of you?


His ancestors were not from Macedonia, his earlieast ancestors were from Raška (Sandžak) which is the heart of Serbian medieval state.

His morther were not Croatian.

Only rellation of Tesla with Croatians is that because his was born on the territory of modern Croatia, but there was no Croatia when he was born, Croatia is created in year 1991 and Tesla was born 1856 (Tesla is 135 years older than Croatia). 

Tesla was born in Austrian Empire (Millitary Frontier) and not in Croatia.

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## Wonomyro

> Well, his earliest ancestor was from *Northwest Macedonia right*? So, chances are his earliest known ancestor was a Bulgarian, Vlach, or Serb. His mother was Croatian, no? So, he is at least 50/50. What seems to be the issue of dispute between the two of you?


Where did you get that? The ancestral surname of Tesla is Draganić. The Draganićs are first mentioned early as in the 14th century as Croatian nobility in the chronicles of city Šibenik. Tesla's ancestors came to Lika from Dalmatia. That fits.

http://plemstvo.hr/obitelji/draganicvrancic

According to unpublished Tesla's diary, one of the family branches, Tesla's ancestors, converted from Catholicism to Orthodox Christianity, That is why they later declared themselves as Serbs.

----------


## Dibran

> His ancestors were not from Macedonia, his earlieast ancestors were from Raška (Sandžak) which is the heart of Serbian medieval state.
> 
> His morther were not Croatian.
> 
> Only rellation of Tesla with Croatians is that because his was born on the territory of modern Croatia, but there was no Croatia when he was born, Croatia is created in year 1991 and Tesla was born 1856 (Tesla is 135 years older than Croatia). 
> 
> Tesla was born in Austrian Empire (Millitary Frontier) and not in Croatia.


Maybe his descent is recently from Sandzak. However, per what I have read, and discussed with other Serbs, his earliest paternal ancestor(like around the time of the Ottoman Empire) was supposedly surnamed Draganic or Dragic, and was from Northwest Macedonia. If his earliest ancestor was from there, his origin is likely Vlach, Bulgarian or Serb. Given his Y-DNA being more predominant in R1a Bulgarians Macedonians, maybe this is where it came from? It would depend i guess on the terminal SNP of the family member of his tested. Regardless of it being called the Austro-Hungarian Empire, per his biography and every accepted record I have read, he was born in Lika, Croatia, which was then part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire.

----------


## Dibran

> Where did you get that? The ancestral surname of Tesla is Draganić. The Draganićs are first mentioned early as in the 14th century as Croatian nobility in the chronicles of city Šibenik. Tesla's ancestors came to Lika from Dalmatia. That fits.
> 
> http://plemstvo.hr/obitelji/draganicvrancic
> 
> According to unpublished Tesla's diary, one of the family branches, Tesla's ancestors, converted from Catholicism to Orthodox Christianity, That is why they later declared themselves as Serbs.


Not certain. This information (with regards to northwest macedonia origin) was in a forum

Makes sense. M458-L1029 is practically non-existent/negligible among Serbs. M458 in the Balkans seems most common in Bulgarians, Macedonians, Croatians and Northern Greeks.

----------


## Wonomyro

> His ancestors were not from Macedonia, his earlieast ancestors were from Raška (Sandžak) which is the heart of Serbian medieval state.


Where are the records?




> Only rellation of Tesla with Croatians is that because his was born on the territory of modern Croatia, but there was no Croatia when he was born, Croatia is created in year 1991 and Tesla was born 1856 (Tesla is 135 years older than Croatia). 
> 
> Tesla was born in Austrian Empire (Millitary Frontier) and not in Croatia.


Don't be silly. The territory we are talking about is the heart of the Croatian medieval state. What difference does it make if it was used as a military frontier against Turks? How can you say that it was not Croatia? 

Use the same standards when talk about Serbia. Serbia literaly didn't exist for 400 years, after Turks stormed it. Take a look at your own sentence on the top of this post...

----------


## Bachus

Nikola Tesla was born an ethnic Serb in village Smiljan , Lika country, in the Austrian Empire (present day Croatia), on the 10 July.
His father, Milutin Tesla (1819-1879), was and Orthodox priest https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikola_Tesla#Early_years

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## Wonomyro

Yes, we know that Croatia was a part of Hapsburg Empire. ^ ^ ^

I am just telling you to use same standards when you speak about Serbia. You said that Tesla's ancestors came from Sanjak. Yes, that was the part of Turkish Empire at the time. Wasn't it?

Or do you think that the text "Serbia" was written in their passports?

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## Garrick

Nikola Tesla was greater scientist and it is good to see he is respected on this forum.

Tesla’s father Milutin was Serbian Orthodox priest. Tesla’s mother Georgina was from Serbian Orthodox family too, her father Nikola Mandic was Serbian Orthodox priest and her grandfather, too.

One of informative website of Tesla is website of The Tesla Science Foundation, in Narberth, Pennsilvania, USA.
http://teslasciencefoundation.org/who-was-nikola-tesla/

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## Wonomyro

^^ Absolutely. Every nation would like to "have it". It is sad that Serbian cultural institution Matica Srpska didn't recognize him:




> *1878. MATICA SRPSKA IN NOVI SAD REJECTS APPLICATION FOR STIPENDIUM*
> Matica Srpska had already rejected his first application, submitted on October 14, 1876. In his new application to the “celebrated Matica  Srpska”, he asked for a stipendium to complete “engineering studies” in Vienna or Prague, but was refused a second time. Apparently he did not regard this as a slight from the oldest and most highly-regarded Serbian cultural, literary and scientific institution because, as a world-famous scientist, he became a member in 1902.


I'd realy like to know the reasons why they rejected him...

@Garrick, thank you for this precious link!

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## Bachus

@ Wonomyro

You are declared half-Gypsy and in the same time you're Croatian natinalist, I never before heard for such something. LOL

My point is that Tesla was not Croatian origin, there is no evidence for that.

Tesla had Serbian national consciousness and that is the most important (he was of real Serbian origin), deal with it.

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## Wonomyro

@Bachus,

I am not more nationalist that you. I would say less.

My point is that Tesla is not Serbi*an*. His connections with Serbia is fantasy. His roots and the family ancestry is in Croatia. His Serb identity is due to confessional and cultural reasons. We are talking here about genetic origin. Dont we? That has nothing to do with the cultural labels. Therefore the last thing we need here are some fake ancestries invented by nationalists for building the national self-esteem.

----------


## Bachus

> @Bachus,
> 
> I am not more nationalist that you. I would say less.
> 
> My point is that Tesla is not Serbi*an*. His connections with Serbia is fantasy. His roots and the family ancestry is in Croatia. His Serb identity is due to confessional and cultural reasons. We are talking here about genetic origin. Dont we? That has nothing to do with the cultural labels. Therefore the last thing we need here are some fake ancestries invented by nationalists for building the national self-esteem.


Of course that we talking about genetic origin, and haplogroup R1a-M458 is more typical for eastern than for western Balkkans, almost all Croatian R1a is Z280 (Carpathian-Dalmatian branch).

----------


## Wonomyro

> Of course that we talking about genetic origin, and haplogroup R1a-M458 is more typical for eastern than for western Balkkans, almost all Croatian R1a is Z280 (Carpathian-Dalmatian branch).


There are plenty of R1a-458 in Croatia as well. Some north Adriatic islands (Cres e.g.) has it 50% of all R1a. 

How many in Serbia?

----------


## Bachus

> There are plenty of R1a-458 in Croatia as well. Some north Adriatic islands (Cres e.g.) has it 50% of all R1a. 
> 
> How many in Serbia?


Northern Adriatic islands has R1a-Z280 (Carpathian-Dalmatian branch), not R1a-M458.

About Serbian R1a-M458 you can see here https://dnk.poreklo.rs/tabela-pojedi...grp-filter=R1a

Kirgyzs have 65% R1a which is more than Russians and Poles, according to your logic Tesla is of Kyrgyzian origin!?

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## Wonomyro

> Northern Adriatic islands has R1a-Z280 (Carpathian-Dalmatian branch), not R1a-M458.


That is *not true*. 

Here are the results from a study. The names represent islands: 

R1a1a1b1a1-M458
----------------------- 
Cres = 27/99 
Dugi otok = 2/44 
Mljet = 2/39 
Pag = 1/33 
Pašman = 1/42 
Ugljan = 3/68

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...22876/abstract 




> About Serbian R1a-M458 you can see here https://dnk.poreklo.rs/tabela-pojedi...grp-filter=R1a


Data from Poreklo is not representative. There is a recent study on Serbia. Isn't there? 




> Kirgyzs have 65% R1a which is more than Russians and Poles, according to your logic Tesla is of Kyrgyzian origin!?


That was a very stupid comment. Tesla's ancestors lived for centuries in Croatia, not in Kyrgyzia. Therefore Croatian data is the most relevant. We see that, the very likely, pre-Otoman invasion population had quite enough of R1a-458 haplogroup.

----------


## Dibran

> Northern Adriatic islands has R1a-Z280 (Carpathian-Dalmatian branch), not R1a-M458.
> 
> About Serbian R1a-M458 you can see here https://dnk.poreklo.rs/tabela-pojedi...grp-filter=R1a
> 
> Kirgyzs have 65% R1a which is more than Russians and Poles, according to your logic Tesla is of Kyrgyzian origin!?



Kyrgyz dont belong to M458 though, do they? Serbian R1a is overwhelmingly Z280. Croatia is the only Western Balkan country with significant amounts of M458. Outside of Bulgaria Macedonia and Northern Greece that is. Romania has a good amount too.

----------


## Bachus

> Kyrgyz dont belong to M458 though, do they? Serbian R1a is overwhelmingly Z280. Croatia is the only Western Balkan country with significant amounts of M458. Outside of Bulgaria Macedonia and Northern Greece that is. Romania has a good amount too.


Serbian R1a-M458 in Krajina came from the central Balkans (Raška, Kosovo and central Serbia) and not from serbized Croatians, because Serbs were never assimilated any Croatians, unlike Croatians who assimilated a lot of Serbs.

Serbs from Lika (in Croatia) have around 20% R1a and 70% is M458, unlike them Croatians from Lika and neighboring regions have mostly Z280 (Carpathian-Dalmatian branchs).

If Tesla was Carpathian-Dalmatian branch of R1a-Z280 it would be a chance that he is of Croatian origin by male line, but Tesla was R1a-M458 which very rare for Croatians from Lika and near Lika. Croatians who have M458 are from some other region which are fair awyy from Lika.

Tesla is the closest to Serbian family Plećaš from Lika, and he is also close to Serbian family Zdravković from central Serbia and Kuzmić from Bosnia near Banja Luka.

Tesla is not close to Croatian holders of R1a-M458.

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## Dibran

> Serbian R1a-M458 in Krajina came from the central Balkans (Raška, Kosovo and central Serbia) and not from serbized Croatians, because Serbs were never assimilated any Croatians, unlike Croatians who assimilated a lot of Serbs.
> 
> Serbs from Lika (in Croatia) have around 20% R1a and 70% is M458, unlike them Croatians from Lika and neighboring regions have mostly Z280 (Carpathian-Dalmatian branchs).
> 
> If Tesla was Carpathian-Dalmatian branch of R1a-Z280 it would be a chance that he is of Croatian origin by male line, but Tesla was R1a-M458 which very rare for Croatians from Lika and near Lika. Croatians who have M458 are from some other region which are fair awyy from Lika.
> 
> Tesla is the closest to Serbian family Plećaš from Lika, and he is also close to Serbian family Zdravković from central Serbia and Kuzmić from Bosnia near Banja Luka.
> 
> Tesla is not close to Croatian holders of R1a-M458.


Listen to yourself. Serbia as a whole is predominantly Z280. Croatian R1a is predominantly M458. And thats not because of Serbs.

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## Wonomyro

> Serbian R1a-M458 in Krajina came from the central Balkans (Raška, Kosovo and central Serbia) and not from serbized Croatians, because Serbs were never assimilated any Croatians, unlike Croatians who assimilated a lot of Serbs.


What makes you so sure that Draganić’s R1a-M458 comes from “central Balkans”, and not from the neighbouring areas in Croatia? Especially after I presented you information about the 14th century nobility of Šibenik whose surname was Draganić. Šibenik is not far from Knin and Lika.

The thesis that “Serbs were never assimilated any Croatians” simple does not hold the truth. There were no Serbian churches in Croatia and Bosnia before Osman conquest. Just compare the maps “before” and “after” and calculate the balance.




> Serbs from Lika (in Croatia) have around 20% R1a and 70% is M458, unlike them Croatians from Lika and neighboring regions have mostly Z280 (Carpathian-Dalmatian branchs).


What paper?




> If Tesla was Carpathian-Dalmatian branch of R1a-Z280 it would be a chance that he is of Croatian origin by male line, but Tesla was R1a-M458 which very rare for Croatians from Lika and near Lika. Croatians who have M458 are from some other region which are fair awyy from Lika.


Draganićs came from Dalmatia to Lika. Haplos of Lika's Croatians are not important for comparison.




> Tesla is the closest to Serbian family Plećaš from Lika, and he is also close to Serbian family Zdravković from central Serbia and Kuzmić from Bosnia near Banja Luka.
> 
> Tesla is not close to Croatian holders of R1a-M458.


Not convincing.

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## Wonomyro

> Listen to yourself. Serbia as a whole is predominantly Z280. Croatian R1a is predominantly M458. And thats not because of Serbs.


That data is unfortunately outdated. Most of these 458 turned to be 558 due to some mistake. The most recent paper corrected that. However, there are still fair enough of 458 in Croatia.

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## Bachus

> Listen to yourself. Serbia as a whole is predominantly Z280. Croatian R1a is predominantly M458. And thats not because of Serbs.


Tesla is close only to few Serbian holders of R1a-M458, and he is far away from Croatian holders of R1a-M458.

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## Garrick

> @Garrick, thank you for this precious link!


Yes, but what I see discussion went down.

One Croat and one Albanian cannot accept the fact, Nikola Tesla is Serb.

It is pure Balkan jealousy, it typically gives a picture of Balkans and Balkanites, unfortunately.



Monument of Nikola Tesla in New York, USA

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## Wonomyro

> Yes, but what I see discussion went down.
> 
> One Croat and one Albanian cannot accept the fact, Nikola Tesla is Serb.
> 
> It is pure Balkan jealousy, it typically gives a picture of Balkans and Balkanites, unfortunately.
> 
> Monument of Nikola Tesla in New York, USA


Well, it seems that our friends, Serbians can't accept that Tesla has nothing to do with Serbia, even more. 

Just for fun, here is a page of Tesla's passport (Croatian: PUTOVNICA):

https://sh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datote...esla_01082.JPG

The coat of arms in the middle of the page is this one (coloured): 

https://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datoteka:Coa_Croatia_Country_History_(with_crown)_ (1868-1918).svg

Edit: There was an argument here, earlier, that Tesla can't be from Croatia because "Croatia didn't exist then". Now we see that not only that Croatia existed, but also that Tesla had its passport.

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## Garrick

> Not certain. This information (with regards to northwest macedonia origin) was in a forum
> 
> Makes sense. *M458-L1029 is practically non-existent/negligible among Serbs*. M458 in the Balkans seems most common in Bulgarians, Macedonians, Croatians and Northern Greeks.


This is wrong.

*
M458-L1029 is represented among Serbs in Serbia, Bosnia and Croatia.

In Poreklo.rs you can see 46 tested Serbs and 1 Bosniac are M458-L1029.
https://dnk.poreklo.rs/naslovna/

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## Wonomyro

> This is wrong. * M458-L1029 is represented among Serbs in Serbia, Bosnia and Croatia. In Poreklo.rs you can see 46 tested Serbs and *1 Bosniac* are M458-L1029. https://dnk.poreklo.rs/naslovna/


Oops! He could be Bosniac too!

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## davef

I hope this helps....
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Tesla-1
Its a comprehensive family tree of Tesla's which even lists the places of birth of his ancestors in this tree. I haven't seen it all yet, but it seems informative.

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## Wonomyro

..........

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## Garrick

> Well, it seems that our friends, Serbians can't accept that Tesla has nothing to do with Serbia, even more. Just for fun, here is a page of Tesla's passport (Croatian: PUTOVNICA): https://sh.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datote...esla_01082.JPG The coat of arms in the middle of the page is this one (coloured): https://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datote...1868-1918).svg


 Someone can think that earth is plane, and all what he wants, it didn't change facts. 

Point of my writing is that is ugly (but unfortunately typical Balkan) that bickering is about such greater man, and why, only because Nikola Tesla was Serb, and yes, Nikola Tesla was American too. 

Therefore in his monument in New York is written: *Nikola Tesla, Serbian and American*.

*
After the death of Nikola Tesla, an American court, in January 1943, awarded custody of his property to Sava Kosanovic, the son of Tesla’s youngest sister Marica, Sava Kosanovic was a Serbian politician, publicist and diplomat who, at that time, was living in New York as a member of the Royal Yugoslav Government-in-exile. 

For everyone who visits Belgrade recommendation is to visit Nikola Tesla museum.
http://www.tesla-museum.org/web/page.php?p=4&s=89&l=en

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## Wonomyro

> Someone can think that earth is plane, and all what he wants, it didn't change facts.
> 
> Point of my writing is that is ugly (but unfortunately typical Balkan) that bickering is about such greater man, and why, only because Nikola Tesla was Serb, and yes, Nikola Tesla was American too.
> 
> Therefore in his monument in New York write: *Nikola Tesla, Serbian and American*.
> 
> *
> 
> After the death of Nikola Tesla, an American court, in January 1943, awarded custody of his property to Sava Kosanovic, the son of Tesla’s youngest sister Marica, Sava Kosanovic was a Serbian politician, publicist and diplomat who, at that time, was living in New York as a member of the Royal Yugoslav Government-in-exile. 
> ...


That's a surface. We wish to know secrets...

For instance, why Tesla's private archive ended up in Belgrade, a capital of Serbia?

Tesla's wished his personal things to be kept in his *homeland*.

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## Garrick

> That's a surface. We wish to know secrets...
> 
> For instance, why Tesla's private archive ended up in Belgrade, a capital of Serbia?
> 
> Tesla's wished his personal things to be kept in his *homeland*.


Who don't like facts he can try with secrets (probably one of the most famous researcher of secrets was Erich von Daniken, his approach is interesting, but unscientific).

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## Wonomyro

> Who don't like facts he can try with *secrets* (probably one of the most famous researcher of secrets was Erich von Daniken, his approach is interesting, but unscientific).


We heard about Tesla's secret diary, kept in the State Archive in Belgrade, which is not published for some reason...

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## alexfritz

> Listen to yourself. Serbia as a whole is predominantly Z280. Croatian R1a is predominantly M458. And thats not because of Serbs.


first and foremost i like the fact that n.tesla is an M458+L1029er (obvious reasons) first and only prominent of the M458+ lineage to begin with; but i have seen different data for the balkan, for sure Z280+ is the most dominant yet M458+ is very seldom throughout but most common (sample count) in bulgaria followed by serbia; though in underhill et al only croatian samples are listed by M458+ and no serbian samples but these were as i understand it selected R1a samples to begin with; 


overall M458+ is most present n70/123 in modern lusatian sorbs with earliest M458+ so far found in medieval wilzen[lechic-wends] gravefield on usedom, it seems as if the slavic expansion towards the elbe/saale and into old-thuringia rednitz/upper-main was mostly carried by M458+ slavs (polabian-lechs/sorbs) whereas the slavs expanding into the balkan were mostly carried Z280+ (plus I2aDin); the ancestral clade Z283+ is so far earliest Kun2 2500-2300bc Corded-Ware(estonia); rebala et al (pre-war data)
Sorben (n=123) 65.0% R1a1a M17+/M198+ davon 8.1% R1a1a M17*+ und *56.9%* R1a1a1b1a1 M458+ 
Bayern (n=218) 12.3% R1a1a M17+/M198+ davon 4.5% R1a1a M17*+ und *7.7%* R1a1a1b1a1 M458+

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## Zvrk9

Nobody will think more highly of Croatia or Serbia if you somehow win the pointless Tesla nationality/Y-DNA debate. Most of the world does not care. As someone already commented, Tesla is more of an American creation. 


Forget about winning the pitiful national credit for Nikola! If Croatia and Serbia are such a fertile grounds for great minds, (and there are some like Ivan Mestrovic, Mihajlo Pupin ... oh, yes Bill Belichick the czar of American football) why not focus on creating more opportunities for your children? In Balkans, there is never the focus on the fostering creative economy, eliminating widespread corruption, electing leaders for other than nationalistic platforms and improving the lives of all your people. Instead of promoting divisive personalities (Milosevic, Tudjman ... ahh, so many to name) who use nationality for their personal gain, focus on making the real change. Cherish your creative talent and make many opportunities for them in your little nations. Celebrate different nationalities and the diversity they bring to your talent pool. Promote the real values.


Much less DNA difference between Croats and Serbs than you see in Germany, Italy, Australia, Canada or America. Yet, they stay together and some got bigger and stronger. Your Tesla potentials are going there for more opportunity and a better life. Croatia and Serbia, you are not in a nationalistic Balkan war for the credits of the past. There is more to be ashamed of than to be proud of. You are in the economic war and you are decisively losing it. Those other nations ... they are very happy with receiving your brightest talent and they do not care about Y-DNA or from which Draganić are their parents.

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## Bachus

​Serbs who are R1a-M458

Вујатовић (Vujatović) - Bosanska Krajina/Bosnia and Herzegovina
Кецман-Шпирић (Kecman-Špirić) - Drinić/Bosnia
Кувељић (Kuveljić) - Prijepolje/Serbia
Чајић (Čajić)- Aleksandrovac/Serbia
Лончар (Lončar) - Pjevlja/Montenegro
Недин (Nedin) - Banat/Serbia
Кесић (Kesić) - Gračac/Croatia
Аћин (Aćin) - Zrenjanin/Serbia
Драгаш (Dragaš) - Drvar/Bosnia and herzegovica
Николић (Nikolić) - Valjevo/Serbia
Жакула (Žakula) - Korenica/Croatia
Обрадовић (Obradović) - Čajniče/Bosnia and Herzegovina
Чоловић (Čolović) - Nikšić/Montenegro
Нанић (Nanić) - Zaječar/Serbia
Миловановић (Milovanović) 
Стевић (Stević) - Zvornik/Bosnia and Herzegovina
Зековић (Zeković) - Šavnik/Montenegro
Ивић (Ivić) - Golubac/Serbia
Калањ (Kalanj) - Udbina/Croatia
Кликовац (Klikovac) - Podgorica/Montenegro
Благојевић (Blagojević) - Aleksandrovac/Serbia
Новаковић (Novaković) - Ugljevik/Bosnia and Herzegovina
Павковић (Pavković) - Gračac/Croatia
Чајетинац (Čajetinac) - Trstenik/Serbia
Мандић (Mandić) - Čačak/Serbia
Бајић (Bajić) - Bugojno/Bosnia and Herzegovina
Перјаничић (Perjaničić) - Aleksandrovac/Serbia
Благојевић (Blagojević) - Piva/Montenegro
Радовић (Radović) - Foča/Bosnia and Herzegovina
Ракић (Rakić) - Kosovo Polje/Serbia
Курандић (Kurandić) - Raška/Serbia
Кузмић (Kuzmić) - Kotor Varoš/Bosnia and Herzegovina
Тесла (Tesla) - Raduč/Croatia
Плећаш (Plećaš) - Gospić/Croatia
Здравковић (Zdravković) - Brus/Serbia
Путица (Putica) - Trebinje/Bosnia and Herzegovina
Опанчина (Opančina - Prijepolje/Serbia
Ђуровић (Đurović) - Prijepolje/Serbia
Матић (Matić) - Aleksandrovac/Serbia
Трипић (Tripić) - Maglaj/Bosnia and Herzegovina
Трипић (Tripić) - Maglaj/Bosnia and Herzegovina
Перишић (Perišić) - Sarajevo/Bosnia and Herzegovina
Дуњић (Dunjić) - Aleksandrovac/Serbia
Дуњић (Dunjić) -Aleksandrovac/Serbia
Јојић (Jojić) - Bajina Bašta/Serbia
Бурмазовић (Burmazović) - Loznica/Serbia 
Милинковић (Milinković) - Ub/Serbia
Аксић (Aksić) - Vitina/Serbia
Јовановић (Jovanović) - Kraljevo/Serbia
Недељковић (Nedeljković) -Kruševac/Serbia
Танкосић (Tankosić) - Drvar/Bosnia and Herzegovina
Бурсаћ (Bursać) - Bihać/Bosnia and Herzegovina
Бурсаћ (Bursać) - Knin/Croatia
Баук (Bauk) - Drvar/Bosnia and Herzegovina
Зељковић (Zeljković) - Bihać/Bosnia and Herzegovina
Радаковић (Radaković) - Karlovac/Croatia
Кнез (Arnaut) - Vrlika/Croatia
Арнаут (Arnaut) - Vrlika/Croatia
Арнаут (Arnaut) - Vrlika/Croatia
Арнаут (Arnaut) - Vrlika/Croatia
Рашета (Rašeta) - Donji Lapac/Croatia
Јањетовић (Janjetović) - Banja Luka/ Bosnia and Herzegovina
Маричић (Maričić) - Brinje/Croatia
Злојутро (Zlojutro) - Kozarska Dubica/Bosnia and Herzegovina
Тодоровић (Todorović) - Mali Zvornik/Serbia
Рашковић (Rašković) - Aleksandrovac/Serbia
Шишаковић (Šišaković) - Sremska Mitrovica/Serbia
Драгичевић (Dragičević) - Croatia
Сенте (Sente) - Bačka/Serbia
Арсић (Arsić) - Svilajnac/Serbia
Јеленковић (Jelenković) - Aleksandrovac/Serbia

In "Serbian DNA project" there is a 277 ethnic Serbs which are R1a, and 71 is M458, which means that among Serbs M458 is *25,6%* of total R1a.

https://dnk.poreklo.rs/tabela-pojedi...grp-filter=R1a

----------


## Wonomyro

> Nobody will think more highly of Croatia or Serbia if you somehow win the pointless Tesla nationality/Y-DNA debate. Most of the world does not care. As someone already commented, Tesla is more of an American creation. 
> 
> 
> Forget about winning the pitiful national credit for Nikola! If Croatia and Serbia are such a fertile grounds for great minds, (and there are some like Ivan Mestrovic, Mihajlo Pupin ... oh, yes Bill Belichick the czar of American football) why not focus on creating more opportunities for your children? In Balkans, there is never the focus on the fostering creative economy, eliminating widespread corruption, electing leaders for other than nationalistic platforms and improving the lives of all your people. Instead of promoting divisive personalities (Milosevic, Tudjman ... ahh, so many to name) who use nationality for their personal gain, focus on making the real change. Cherish your creative talent and make many opportunities for them in your little nations. Celebrate different nationalities and the diversity they bring to your talent pool. Promote the real values.
> 
> 
> Much less DNA difference between Croats and Serbs than you see in Germany, Italy, Australia, Canada or America. Yet, they stay together and some got bigger and stronger. Your Tesla potentials are going there for more opportunity and a better life. Croatia and Serbia, you are not in a nationalistic Balkan war for the credits of the past. There is more to be ashamed of than to be proud of. You are in the economic war and you are decisively losing it. Those other nations ... they are very happy with receiving your brightest talent and *they do not care about Y-DNA or from which Draganić are their parents*.


With all respect, this topic IS about genetics, and therefore we should "care about Y-DNA or from which Draganić are their parents". 

Generally, I think that we should avoid politics unless it is related to the matter of discussion. Especially we should avoid negative sterotypes about nations and stick to the facts instead.

----------


## Wonomyro

> ​Serbs who are R1a-M458
> 
> Вујатовић (Vujatović) - Bosanska Krajina/Bosnia and Herzegovina
> Кецман-Шпирић (Kecman-Špirić) - Drinić/Bosnia
> Кувељић (Kuveljić) - Prijepolje/Serbia
> Чајић (Čajić)- Aleksandrovac/Serbia
> Лончар (Lončar) - Pjevlja/Montenegro
> Недин (Nedin) - Banat/Serbia
> Кесић (Kesić) - Gračac/Croatia
> ...


I see many potential relatives in the list. Statistics is not just blind counting. We should stick to scientific papers instead. 

Also mind that these are the 20-21th century self-declared Serbs, mostly from Croatia and Bosnia and Herzegovina. I am afraid that we know about their ethnic past even less than we know about Draganić clan past.

----------


## Bachus

> I see many potential relatives in the list. Statistics is not just blind counting. We should stick to scientific papers instead.


Whose relatives you see?

----------


## Wonomyro

> Whose relatives you see?


I see many people with the same surmames from the same villages. I can't be sure whether they are indeed relatives or not, but it is very likely that they are not distant. Data in this form should not be used in any percentage calculations. The samples should pass the rigorous filtering before we can be confident that it is representative.

There is a recent scientific study on Serbia population, why don't you present that data?

----------


## Bachus

> I see many people with the same surmames from the same villages. I can't be sure whether they are indeed relatives or not, but it is very likely that they are not distant. Data in this form should not be used in any percentage calculations. The samples should pass the rigorous filtering before we can be confident that it is representative.
> 
> There is a recent scientific study on Serbia population, why don't you present that data?


Only Tripić from Maglaj, Dunjić from Aleksandrovac, and Arnaut from Vrlika are the same surnames from same places, even without them statistics would not change much.

There is scientific study only for Župa region in central Serbia, studies for other regions and for whole Serbia has not been done yet.

----------


## Wonomyro

> Only Tripić from Maglaj, Dunjić from Aleksandrovac, and Arnaut from Vrlika are the same surnames from same places, even without them statistics would not change much.
> 
> There is scientific study only for Župa region in central Serbia, studies for other regions and for whole Serbia has not been done yet.


Here it is. Out of 204 samples there were as much as 3 of R1a-M458 found:




> ID09SerPop Serbia [Serbian] North R1a Z282>M458>> L1029
> ID64SerPop Serbia [Serbian] South R1a Z282>M458>> L260>>Y2905
> ID141SerPop Serbia [Serbian] Center R1a Z282>M458>> L1029


http://www.fsigenetics.com/article/S1872-4973(17)30155-2/pdf

----------


## Bachus

> Here it is. Out of 204 samples there were as much as 3 of R1a-M458 found:
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.fsigenetics.com/article/S1872-4973(17)30155-2/pdf


In the study for Župa region in central Serbia R1a is *20,34%* ​, but I dont know what is the relation between Z280 and M458 (Župa region is samall pert of central Serbia)

This is result for Župa region

----------


## Wonomyro

> In the study for Župa region in central Serbia R1a is *20,34%* ​, but I dont know what is the relation between Z280 and M458 (Župa region is samall pert of central Serbia)
> 
> This is result for Župa region


I hope that you understand that percentages of M458 in the region are not informative enough in this matter. 

Regarding, Serbia, we should also take into account that the big deal of the present Serbian population has roots in the previously non (or not major) Serb-Orthodox areas of Bosnia, Dalmatia, Herzegovina, Montenegro etc.

----------


## hrvat22

> ​Serbs who are R1a-M458
> 
> Вујатовић (Vujatović) - Bosanska Krajina/Bosnia and Herzegovina
> Кецман-Шпирић (Kecman-Špirić) - Drinić/Bosnia
> Кувељић (Kuveljić) - Prijepolje/Serbia
> Чајић (Čajić)- Aleksandrovac/Serbia
> Лончар (Lončar) - Pjevlja/Montenegro
> Недин (Nedin) - Banat/Serbia
> Кесић (Kesić) - Gračac/Croatia
> ...


This is no proof, we can not believe on your word that they are not relatives. If you have scientific work which proves something show it.


Many Tesla from Croatia came to America at the end of the 19th century, and many of them declaring themselves as Croats under race. We have few people who declare themselves as Serbian. Nikola Tesla declares itself as Austrian under nationality, far as I know. But I think that on his emigration list is not column with 


> race of people


.

https://www.libertyellisfoundation.org/passenger

----------


## Wonomyro

> Many Tesla from Croatia came to America at the end of the 19th century, and many of them declaring themselves as Croats under race. We have few people who declare themselves as Serbian. Nikola Tesla declares itself as Austrian under nationality, far as I know. But I think that on his emigration list is not column with .
> 
> https://www.libertyellisfoundation.org/passenger


Yes, that is true. In the Ellis Island immigration records in the period 1892.—1924. there were plenty of Tesla's who declared themselves as Croats.

http://www.ellisisland.org/

It was mentioned in the paper (unfortunately in Croatian but Serbs are welcome to read it):

http://hrcak.srce.hr/index.php?show=...ak_jezik=68919

I've translated the key sentence:




> *There were 89 persons with the surname Tesla of which 29 Croats and 5 Serbs. There are also many present day "tipical" Serbian names (actually Serbian Orthodox) in a database all recorded as Croats.*


This is in line with what I was argumenting in my previous posts.

----------


## Garrick

> Many Tesla from Croatia came to America at the end of the 19th century, and many of them declaring themselves as Croats under race. We have few people who declare themselves as Serbian. Nikola Tesla declares itself as Austrian under nationality, far as I know. But I think that on his emigration list is not column with .
> 
> https://www.libertyellisfoundation.org/passenger


And what, a lot of Serbs and Croats have same surnames, in Serbia today you can find surname Tesla how many want (of course some people of them migrated from Lika and Dalmatia).

Difference between who is Serb and who is Croat when modern nations developed, determined faith, (language was practically same in shtokavian areas).

The Croats are Roman Catholic, the Serbs have Serbian Orthodox church.

The father of Nikola Tesla was priest of Serbian Orthodox church, the father of his mother was priest of Serbian Orthodox church, too.

Houston teacher archive, US

http://teachertech.rice.edu/Particip...ons/Tesla.html

"Nikola Tesla was born at precisely midnight between July 9/10, 1856, in the village of Smiljan, province of Lika (Austria-Hungary). His father, the Reverend Milutin Tesla, was a Serbian-Orthodox priest; his mother, Djuka (Mandich), was unschooled but highly intelligent. Both families came originally from western Serbia and for generations had sent their sons to serve Church or Army and their daughters to marry ministers or officers."

*
People can bicker infinitely but in the end they get nothing.

Nikola Tesla was born as Serb, he lived and made results in America, and he was American, and of course, he belongs to entire humanity.

----------


## Bachus

> This is no proof, we can not believe on your word that they are not relatives. If you have scientific work which proves something show it.
> 
> 
> Many Tesla from Croatia came to America at the end of the 19th century, and many of them declaring themselves as Croats under race. We have few people who declare themselves as Serbian. Nikola Tesla declares itself as Austrian under nationality, far as I know. But I think that on his emigration list is not column with .
> 
> https://www.libertyellisfoundation.org/passenger


Croatians race does not exist https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_(...ategorization)

Nikola Tesla was declared and proud Serb, and you can cry for that as much as you want it will not change  :Laughing: , Tesla will be Serb forever.

Tesla is not relateed with Croatians in any aspect, he was born in territory of modern Croatia, when he was born Croatia did not exist!!!  :Laughing: 

Native village of Nikola Tesla is part of Croatia since 1991 and that was 135 years after Tesla's birth, DEAL WITH IT!!!  :Laughing:

----------


## hrvat22

> Garrick





> Nikola Tesla was born at precisely midnight between July 9/10, 1856, in the village of Smiljan, province of Lika (Austria-Hungary). His father, the Reverend Milutin Tesla, was a Serbian-Orthodox priest; his mother, Djuka (Mandich), was unschooled but highly intelligent. Both families came originally from western Serbia and for generations had sent their sons to serve Church or Army and their daughters to marry ministers or officers."



Show me documents that prove it (western Serbia theory).




> The father of Nikola Tesla was priest of Serbian Orthodox church, the father of his mother was priest of Serbian Orthodox church, too.


There are many Vlachs in this area that no longer exist, we can assume that and part of Croats has converted to Orthodoxy, for that reason priest of the Serbian Orthodox Church could be anyone.




> Mehmed-paša Sokolović, the great vizier of the Ottoman Empire, he 1566 gives commandment on the occasion of the Greek Patriarch, in which he says: " Emperor give eferman that Roman friars in Budim, Timisoara and Dubrovnik and from the Croatian people
> do not ask charity, if that people belong to the Greek patriarch.


This is proof that there are also Orthodox Croatians exist in our area.

----------


## hrvat22

> Bachus






> Nikola Tesla was declared and proud Serb, and you can cry for that as much as you want it will not change , Tesla will be Serb forever.


And I am proud Serbian but we are talking about the origins of the Tesla family, maybe his ancestors are Turkish, we do not know that.

Novak Đoković is also proud Serbian but he is also and Croatian origin.





> Tesla is not relateed with Croatians in any aspect, he was born in territory of modern Croatia, when he was born Croatia did not exist!!!


In 1815, many Serbian uprisings did not know for name Serbia.

Serbian historian on Serbian national television.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zOI...vZK0Jg&index=2





> Native village of Nikola Tesla is part of Croatia since 1991 and that was 135 years after Tesla's birth, DEAL WITH IT!!


Croats live in Croatia since 1991, deal with it!!!

----------


## Modernancientdna

Serb I2, not R1A-M458

----------


## hrvat22

> Serb I2, not R1A-M458



You mean Croats ?

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...ats-to-Croatia

----------


## Bachus

> Show me documents that prove it (western Serbia theory).
> 
> 
> 
> There are many Vlachs in this area that no longer exist, we can assume that and part of Croats has converted to Orthodoxy, for that reason priest of the Serbian Orthodox Church could be anyone.
> 
> 
> 
> This is proof that there are also Orthodox Croatians exist in our area.


Read this, and deal wit it http://www.intermagazin.rs/poreklo-n...koline-bileca/

----------


## Bachus

> Serb I2, not R1A-M458


Really? https://dnk.poreklo.rs/tabela-pojedi...grp-filter=R1a

Only in somebody's fantasies some nation can have only one haplogropup, I2a is the strongest haplogroup among Serbs aound 37%, but Serbs are not only I2a.

----------


## Bachus

> You mean Croats ?
> 
> https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...ats-to-Croatia


I2-Din is not Croatian haplogroup, because haplogroups are much much older than first mention of any nation.

There is a more holders of I2a-Din among Serbs than among Croatians.

----------


## hrvat22

> Read this, and deal wit it http://www.intermagazin.rs/poreklo-n...koline-bileca/


Documents, please.

----------


## Bachus

> Documents, please.


I gave you a link, if you don't know to read it is your problem.

----------


## hrvat22

> There is a more holders of I2a-Din among Serbs than among Croatians.



So what? It has nothing to do with anything.

Here you prove what you're saying, deal with it!!

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...ats-to-Croatia

----------


## Modernancientdna

He is typical Dinaric who knows maybe he inherit Slavic R1A-M458 from steppes

----------


## hrvat22

> I gave you a link, if you don't know to read it is your problem.


I need historical records about origin of the Tesla family. Where are those records?

----------


## Bachus

> So what? It has nothing to do with anything.
> 
> Here you prove what you're saying, deal with it!!
> 
> https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...ats-to-Croatia


Do you suggest that today there is a larger number of holders of "original Croatian haplogroup" among Serbs than among Croatians?

----------


## Bachus

> I need historical records about origin of the Tesla family. Where are those records?


In Turkish archives in Istanbul.

----------


## hrvat22

> In Turkish archives in Istanbul.


If you do not have any records about origins of Tesla family, why do you claim that his ancestors are from Serbia or Serbs? You can not claim it without proof.

----------


## hrvat22

> Do you suggest that today there is a larger number of holders of "original Croatian haplogroup" among Serbs than among Croatians?


All these is written here, deal with it!!!

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...ats-to-Croatia

----------


## Bachus

> Novak Đoković is also proud Serbian but he is also and Croatian origin.


Wrong, Novak Đoković is from Serbian tibe Ozrinići from Montenegro https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozrinići_(tribe)

----------


## Bachus

> All these is written here, deal with it!!!
> 
> https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...ats-to-Croatia



That is not scientific research of relevant scientists, those are your fantasies.  :Laughing:

----------


## Modernancientdna

So what happen to Dinarics I2 

We indigenous to south Balkan Thracians, Dacians and then we move to Dobruja and White Croatia then 4th century Huns chased all Germanics from Dalmatia and your ancestor in 5th century migrate from Dobruja and White Croatia to Dalmatia coast, and my ancestor they never left Dobruja and White Croatia, this how we related

----------


## hrvat22

> Wrong, Novak Đoković is from Serbian tibe Ozrinići from Montenegro https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozrinići_(tribe)


His mother is a Croatian from Vinkovci (Croatia), what Ozrinići_(tribe) have with Serbians.?

----------


## hrvat22

> That is not scientific research of relevant scientists, those are your fantasies.


Take historical records and genetic and refute my fantasies, or deal with it!!

----------


## Bachus

> His mother is a Croatian from Vinkovci (Croatia), what Ozrinići_(tribe) have with Serbians.?


Ozrinići are Serbian tribe from Montenegro (Old Montenegero), in the middle age Montenegro was part of Serbia when Vojvodina and Belgrade was not part of Serbia.
Montenegrins are Serbs, Montenegrin nation does not exist, there was no Montenegrin nation before Josip Broz Tito and Milo Đukanović.
Genetically Montenegrins are closer to Serbs than to Croatians, deal with it.

First Serbian state in early middle age was in Herzegovina, Bosnia, Montenegro, southern/central Dalmatian, Raška, western Serbia and western part of Šumadija.
Modern borders of Serbia are same as borders of Serbia in middle age, Serbia in the early middle age was more western than today.

----------


## hrvat22

> Ozrinići are Serbian tribe from Montenegro (Old Montenegero), in the middle age Montenegro was part of Serbia when Vojvodina and Belgrade was not part of Serbia.
> Montenegrins are Serbs, Montenegrin nation does not exist, there was no Montenegrin nation before Josip Broz Tito and Milo Đukanović.
> Genetically Montenegrins are closer to Serbs than to Croatians, deal with it.
> 
> First Serbian state in early middle age was in Herzegovina, Bosnia, Montenegro, southern/central Dalmatian, Raška, western Serbia and western part of Šumadija.
> Modern borders of Serbia are same as borders of Serbia in middle age, Serbia in the early middle age was more western than today.


 Claiming this without relevant historical records and genetics is unacceptable.

----------


## Wonomyro

Guys, please stop with this fruitless discussion. We are interested in Tesla's origin, not in his self-declaration in the modern sense. 

@Bachus, you don't understand what the term "race" meant in the immigration forms. 

IMO, as of the posts #91 or #92, nothing new and relevant was said.

----------


## Zvrk9

What ethnicity was Nikola Tesla? This is the real debate here, primarily between Croatians and Serbians. 
What is the definition of being Croatian or Serbian today?


Balkan nation borders moved so much. Your people moved so much. Just look all these maps. As I understand it, Adriatic islands and coast are very DNA diverse. Some famous people like Magellan maybe started their life there. What haplogroup would he be? Pannonia, above Sava and Danube, has its own DNA mixes. In SE Serbia are many other mixes today. You are a mix of so many migrations, colonizations, occupations, and ancient tribes before you even landed on Balkans. Many of your haplogroups changed religion which you often use in defining the ethnic groups.


You lived together in the same country, and many of your families are mixed autosomal DNA. Many of your people are afraid to declare themselves to be one or the other because of relentless ethnic pressures that you are part of. You killed your own haplotypes as recent as the 90s, based on your ethnic belives and hatred.

Isn't being Croat or Serb more the state of mind? It is the matter of feeling and your upbringing like it is the case with the race.

----------


## Bachus

> What ethnicity was Nikola Tesla? This is the real debate here, primarily between Croatians and Serbians. 
> What is the definition of being Croatian or Serbian today?
> 
> 
> Balkan nation borders moved so much. Your people moved so much. Just look all these maps. As I understand it, Adriatic islands and coast are very DNA diverse. Some famous people like Magellan maybe started their life there. What haplogroup would he be? Pannonia, above Sava and Danube, has its own DNA mixes. In SE Serbia are many other mixes today. You are a mix of so many migrations, colonizations, occupations, and ancient tribes before you even landed on Balkans. Many of your haplogroups changed religion which you often use in defining the ethnic groups.
> 
> 
> You lived together in the same country, and many of your families are mixed autosomal DNA. Many of your people are afraid to declare themselves to be one or the other because of relentless ethnic pressures that you are part of. You killed your own haplotypes as recent as the 90s, based on your ethnic belives and hatred.
> 
> Isn't being Croat or Serb more the state of mind? It is the matter of feeling and your upbringing like it is the case with the race.


Croatian members trying to prove it that Tesla was Croat, which is lunatic.
Tesla and his ancestors from father's and mother's side were declared Serbs.
Father of Nikola Tesla was Orthodox priest, and his grandfather (mothrer's father) was also an Orthodox priest.

Yes, Adriatic islands are quite diverse in haplogruops, every island have some specifities, in Adriatic islands are often exotic haplogroups such as Q in Hvar and Korčula. People from Hvar ans Korčula have the highest percentage of haplogroup Q in Europe, even more than Ashkenazi Jews.
Some islands of northern Adriatic have 60% R1a, and some Dalmatian islands have 70% I2a-Din, some island have high percentage of J2...
Unlike Adriatic islands which are quite diverse Dinaric area (Dalmatian hinterland, Bosnia, Herzegovina, part of Montenegro and western Serbia) are no yso diverse, in Dinaric are haplogroup I2a-Din dominates, especially in Dalmatia and Herzegovina.

----------


## Zvrk9

I would not call any members talk lunatic because this all conversation could be called that. The discussion started about Tesla haplogroup and quickly changed to ethnicity.
How is being Serb or Croat tied to some 4000-year-old DNA haplogroup in addition to what I already stated about your two ethnic groups? 
Did people of Tesla's haplogroup some 4000 years ago (if that is an appropriate age) know that they are one or the other?

----------


## Wonomyro

> Croatian members trying to prove it that Tesla was Croat, which is lunatic. Tesla and his ancestors from father's and mother's side were declared Serbs. Father of Nikola Tesla was Orthodox priest, and his grandfather (mothrer's father) was also an Orthodox priest. Yes, Adriatic islands are quite diverse in haplogruops, every island have some specifities, in Adriatic islands are often exotic haplogroups such as Q in Hvar and Korčula. People from Hvar ans Korčula have the highest percentage of haplogroup Q in Europe, even more than Ashkenazi Jews. Some islands of northern Adriatic have 60% R1a, and some Dalmatian islands have 70% I2a-Din, some island have high percentage of J2... Unlike Adriatic islands which are quite diverse Dinaric area (Dalmatian hinterland, Bosnia, Herzegovina, part of Montenegro and western Serbia) are no yso diverse, in Dinaric are haplogroup I2a-Din dominates, especially in Dalmatia and Herzegovina.


 What is your point with Hvar island, Q and I2a haplogroup?

----------


## Bachus

> What is your point with Hvar island, Q and I2a haplogroup?


On the other thread I mentioned that because maybe is proto-Croatian.  :Thinking: 

On this thread I mentioned Q to say that Adriatic island are are pretty diverse in terms of haplogroups, and some of them are exotic for Europe.

----------


## Wonomyro

> On the other thread I mentioned that because maybe is proto-Croatian. 
> 
> On this thread I mentioned Q to say that Adriatic island are are pretty diverse in terms of haplogroups, and some of them are exotic for Europe.


Haven't you got a proper answer there? 

What does Island Hvar and Q haplogroup have to do with Tesla's origin? 

Btw. Hvar population represents 0.26% of the total Croatian population (11,000 people), and haplogroup Q is present in only 16% of all males. Islands are isolated areas and prone to genetic drifts, which is the most probably case here. The haplogroup could have come from over the sea, as we count similar percentages on Sicily, and may have belonged to only one man.

There are as much as *50 populated islands in Croatia*! Hvar is just one of them.

Do you have any sense of proportions?

----------


## Zvrk9

Maybe it is my fault due to the Magellan comment. I read somewhere that he is likely from the island of Hvar.

Is there anything more to be said about Tesla haplogroup, for now?

----------


## hrvat22

> Bachus





> Tesla and his ancestors from father's and mother's side were declared Serbs.


That record that they declare (ancestors from father's and mother's side) as Serbs do not exist. 




> Father of Nikola Tesla was Orthodox priest, and his grandfather (mothrer's father) was also an Orthodox priest.


This does not mean that they are Serbs, do you know Croatian history ? We do not have history records who speak about migration of Serbs to Croatia, possibly only to eastern Croatia (Slavonia) and couple of them in western Croatia.




> Yes, Adriatic islands are quite diverse in haplogruops, every island have some specifities, in Adriatic islands are often exotic haplogroups such as Q in Hvar and Korčula.


Croats come to Illyricum, Dalmatia and Panonia (De Administrando Imperio) and not just to two islands. Who teaches you this?




> People from Hvar ans Korčula have the highest percentage of haplogroup Q in Europe, even more than Ashkenazi Jews.
> Some islands of northern Adriatic have 60% R1a, and some Dalmatian islands have 70% I2a-Din, some island have high percentage of J2...


Croats come to Illyricum, Dalmatia and Panonia (De Administrando Imperio), do you understand that? Illyricum, Dalmatia and Panonia are not on the islands but on the western part of the Balkans. Do you know geography of Europe ?




> Dinaric area (Dalmatian hinterland, Bosnia, Herzegovina, part of Montenegro and western Serbia) are no yso diverse, in Dinaric are haplogroup I2a-Din dominates, especially in Dalmatia and Herzegovina.


According to historical data that's exactly where White Croats are coming, and this proves genetics.

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...ats-to-Croatia

----------


## Wonomyro

> Maybe it is my fault due to the Magellan comment. I read somewhere that he is likely from the island of Hvar.


It is not your fault. We had a discussion here today (about Hvar):

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...l=1#post529343

It is his way to obstruct a discussion.




> Is there anything more to be said about Tesla haplogroup, for now?


Perhaps we should keep that way. 

However, the whole dispute started because of a confusion created by a website "Poreklo" (as you can observe from the name of the topic). When I looked at their interpretation of Tesla's origin I can only say that there is something really fishy there. Then when I found Croat Ruger Bošković on the list of Serbs than I was definitely convinced that data coming from that site is not credible.

----------


## Zvrk9

According to Tesla Society in New York, Nikola Tesla and Ivan Mestrovic became friends in 1924. 
Ivan Mestrovic is the great Croatian sculptor who contributed so much outstanding art to America, Croatia, and Serbia. I like his sculptures in United Nations (NY) and Chicago.
Mestrovic's enormous talent and creativity are probably more related to his autosomal DNA as oppose to Y-DNA haplogroups. So what do we know about any of his DNA?

I would like to start a new thread but do not know how. Could one of you help?

----------


## Zvrk9

I was talking about Tesla Society so here is the link http://www.teslasociety.com/ivan.htm
You should all know Mestrovic https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Me%C5%A1trovi%C4%87

----------


## Wonomyro

There is a button on the top-left side. You must go one level up where the list of threads is displayed.

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## Zvrk9

Thanks Wonomyro, going one level up was the key.

----------


## zagortenay

Firstly, if Tesla was alive and reading this forum, as someone who championed Yugoslav identity and unity, I am sure he would be disgusted. Secondly as far as I know a Y-DNA haplogroup comprises only 1-2 % of DNA, so just looking at Y-Haplogroup is not very meaningful. 
Thirdly, this type of discussion is absurd especially in a genetics forum where you are all trying to find out about your ancestors, which was in most likelihood common if we go back at most 1000 years.

----------


## Wonomyro

> Firstly, if Tesla was alive and reading this forum, as someone who championed Yugoslav identity and unity,


His friend Ivan Meštrović as well, but later disappointed. 




> I am sure he would be disgusted.


Maybe not. He liked popularity. 




> Secondly as far as I know a Y-DNA haplogroup comprises only 1-2 % of DNA, so just looking at Y-Haplogroup is not very meaningful.


Not meaningful for what? 




> Thirdly, this type of discussion is absurd especially in a genetics forum where you are all trying to find out about your ancestors, which was in most likelihood common if we go back at most 1000 years.


Of course, we should avoid politics and ideologies here.

----------


## Zvrk9

Hi Wonomyro, you asked a good question earlier, and I cut you off (unintentionally) with my Mestrovic interest. Your question made me think that I did not understand the text and test data of Poreklo.rs very well. Using a name like "Serbian DNA Project" may sound buyest and is an unfortunate choice of words. We may soon see Croation DNA Project, which I would also like. Please make it more readable in other languages and DNA data easier to find.

Here is Google translation that describes what I am trying to say http://dnk.poreklo.rs/o-srpskom-dnk-projektu/?lang=lat

"This means that individuals within the Serbian DNA project are not Serbs but Serbs share the same space and history as well as similar genetics. The project is therefore open to all people from Serbia and the surrounding countries, and therefore we invite you to send your genetic results, as well as familiar information about the history of your family (place of origin, royal glory ...). The aim of the project is to decipher the secrets of the majority of Serbian genres and surnames by means of genetics, as well as to learn more about our total history."

If I understand that correctly, and you can read it in the original language, some people tested are not Serbian. At least not in the way of your confusing, changing (addressing both sides) ethnic definition. It is clear with Macura/Marinkovic family (you will find them in I1-Z63) that some of them are not Serbian today. 

Bachus or others, could you confirm that?

We discussed ethnicity and Y-DNA very problematic correlation if any really exists (in my humble opinion). I hope I am not opening another C-S war of words here. Please be respectful.

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## Bachus

> Hi Wonomyro, you asked a good question earlier, and I cut you off (unintentionally) with my Mestrovic interest. Your question made me think that I did not understand the text and test data of Poreklo.rs very well. Using a name like "Serbian DNA Project" may sound buyest and is an unfortunate choice of words. We may soon see Croation DNA Project, which I would also like. Please make it more readable in other languages and DNA data easier to find.
> 
> Here is Google translation that describes what I am trying to say http://dnk.poreklo.rs/o-srpskom-dnk-projektu/?lang=lat
> 
> "This means that individuals within the Serbian DNA project are not Serbs but Serbs share the same space and history as well as similar genetics. The project is therefore open to all people from Serbia and the surrounding countries, and therefore we invite you to send your genetic results, as well as familiar information about the history of your family (place of origin, royal glory ...). The aim of the project is to decipher the secrets of the majority of Serbian genres and surnames by means of genetics, as well as to learn more about our total history."
> 
> If I understand that correctly, and you can read it in the original language, some people tested are not Serbian. At least not in the way of your confusing, changing (addressing both sides) ethnic definition. It is clear with Macura/Marinkovic family (you will find them in I1-Z63) that some of them are not Serbian today. 
> 
> Bachus or others, could you confirm that?
> ...


More that 95% people which tested on "Serbian DNA project" are ethic Serbs, rest are Croatians, Bosniaks and few Macedonians.

People which are I1-Z63 at SDK are all Serbs, except maybe guy with surname Pukić (Пукић) who is Catholic from Bar in Montenegro, I'm supose that he declared self as Croatian or as Montenegrin.

Pukić does not belong to Macura cluster of I1-Z63, all people which belong to Macura cluster og Z63 at SDK are Orthodox Serbs.
Marinković belong to Macura cluster, he is Orthodox Serb from northern Dalmatia from Tribanj https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribanj
Macure are originally Serbian Ortodox clan from northern Dalmatia from Kistanje https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kistanje

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## hrvat22

> Zvrk9





> The aim of the project is to decipher the secrets of the majority of Serbian genres and surnames by means of genetics, as well as to learn more about our total history.




Representatives of Serbian genetic portal Poreklo go to the region and keep lectures about so-called Serbian I2a haplogrup, they say that original Croats are somewhere in Istria and in the north of Croatia. I as a Croat would not have a problem with that if they prove it.

Therefore they can not prove it and obviously they do it by lying, for this reason I do not recommend using this portal for evidence except for statistics.

Invite them to refute my truth 


> https://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...ats-to-Croatia


Nobody will come.

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## Wonomyro

...............................

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## Wonomyro

> If I understand that correctly, and you can read it in the original language, *some people tested are not Serbian*. At least not in the way of your confusing, changing (addressing both sides) ethnic definition. It is clear with Macura/Marinkovic family (you will find them in I1-Z63) that some of them are not Serbian today.


I am trying to understand what you meant. You probably reacted on this:




> When I looked at their interpretation of Tesla's origin I can only say that there is something really fishy there. Then when I found Croat *Ruger Bošković* on the list of Serbs than I was definitely convinced that data coming from that site is not credible.


Ruđer Bošković was a Croatian scientists from Dubrovnik. He lived in 18th century and he was never tested at Poreklo or Serbian DNK project.




> Roger Joseph Boscovich (Croatian: Ruđer Josip Bošković, pronounced [rûd͡ʑer jǒsip bôʃkoʋit͡ɕ], Italian: Ruggiero Giuseppe Boscovich,[2] Latin: Rodericus Iosephus Boscovicus; 18 May 1711 – 13 February 1787) was a Ragusan physicist, astronomer, mathematician, philosopher, diplomat, poet, theologian, Jesuit priest, and a polymath[3] from the city of Dubrovnik (modern-day Croatia), who studied and lived in Italy and France where he also published many of his works.[4] *He was nicknamed the Croatian Leibniz by Werner Heisenberg.[5]*


On Poreklo website Ruđer Bošković is mentioned in the list of Great Serbs (Velikani):

https://www.poreklo.rs/2013/07/08/po...%87a/?lang=lat

They make their readers to beleive what does not exist.

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## Zvrk9

Yes Wonomyro, it was your comment about Ruger Boskovic. I did not want you, or anyone else to feel cut off. 
I will talk to you all in some other DNA forum.

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## Wonomyro

> Yes Wonomyro, it was your comment about Ruger Boskovic. I did not want you, or anyone else to feel cut off. 
> I will talk to you all in some other DNA forum.


You are a kind person, @Zvrk9. Thank you for you comments.

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## Bachus



----------


## Lenab

> More that 95% people which tested on "Serbian DNA project" are ethic Serbs, rest are Croatians, Bosniaks and few Macedonians.
> 
> People which are I1-Z63 at SDK are all Serbs, except maybe guy with surname Pukić (Пукић) who is Catholic from Bar in Montenegro, I'm supose that he declared self as Croatian or as Montenegrin.
> 
> Pukić does not belong to Macura cluster of I1-Z63, all people which belong to Macura cluster og Z63 at SDK are Orthodox Serbs.
> Marinković belong to Macura cluster, he is Orthodox Serb from northern Dalmatia from Tribanj https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribanj
> Macure are originally Serbian Ortodox clan from northern Dalmatia from Kistanje https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kistanje


There is no difference between Montenegrin and Serbs they are probably the most close along with Croatians. Like all ethnicity from the Balkans they all share the Greek and Serbian dna.

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## Lenab

> 


Funny, because he's uber Dinaric.

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## Wonomyro

> There is no difference between Montenegrin and Serbs they are probably the most close along with Croatians. Like all ethnicity from the Balkans they all share the Greek and *Serbian dna*.


 This PCA plot shows two groups of Serbs that do not overlap:

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/art...e.0105090.g003

https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0105090.s002

These two groups are as follows:

 1. Serbs from Srebia (red) plot together with Montenegrins and some Macedonians.

2. Serbs from Bosnia (light green) plot together with Croats from Croatia, Croats from Bosnia, Bosniaks and Hungarians.

Which of two groups represents “Serbian dna”?

(Source: http://journals.plos.org/plosone/art...l.pone.0105090)

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## Bachus

> Funny, because he's uber Dinaric.


This Serbian footballer is R1a-M458, and his native village is located 15 km from native village of Nikola Tesla. Does he look like R1a?

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## Milan.M

> This Serbian footballer is R1a-M458, and his native village is located 15 km from native village of Nikola Tesla. Does he look like R1a?


What kind of surname is Basta?

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## Bachus

> What kind of surname is Basta?


It's probably created from some nickname, as many Serbian surnames from the Dinaric Alps.

Baste from Lika are cousins (by y dna) with Pavković family from Lika, and also with Mladić family from Kalinovik in Herzegovina.
Ratko Mladić is from Kalinovik, and he is R1a-M458.

Branch M458 is among Lika Serbs is more common than Z280, about 2/3 is M458 and 1/3 is Z280.
Among Serbs on average Z280 is more common. Z280 is about 70% of total Serbian R1a.

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## Lenab

Yes Serbians cluster with Macedonians probably from Eastern Thrace and absolutely Montenegrin

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## Lenab

Tomorrow I will post here pictures of my Mother's family and I will post here her Macedonian Grandfather blonde hair blue eyes so yes I can believe if it is haplogroup it's autosomal i do not trust because results vary but haplotype are set and stone and btw R1a is also high in Eastern Germany.

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## Wonomyro

> Basta families are mainly Serbs and they are mostly from Obrovac area , whereas often Croats (from Gospic ). In the past century, relatively most of Croatian residents bearing this family name were born in Obrovac area and in Zagreb. In places Srednja Gora and Kurjak in Obrovac area every fourth inhabitant had the family name Basta.


https://actacroatica.com/en/surname/Basta/

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## Bachus

> https://actacroatica.com/en/surname/Basta/


Dušan Basta originated from Srednja Gora near Udbina.

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## Lenab

Bachus maybe you could tell me a bit about my Mother's family 

and the dress as my Mum wants to know the region but I am thinking at least the family member in the top photo we think is maybe from Macedonia we think the guy in the fez could be also 
https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...72&oe=5BDA426F

Attachment 10335

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...bf&oe=5BD164B7Attachment 10335

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...bf&oe=5BD164B7


https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...87&oe=5BDC69CC

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...4b&oe=5BDC8A2E

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## iwalktheearth

I'm on this line and have him as a common male ancestor. Italy. Italian, The answer is Italy.

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## iwalktheearth

The unmutated L line that I have for the Y - DNA ( the original unmutated is from Sardenia, the Sardinian. ) Rest easy and eat pasta

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## Dibran

> I'm on this line and have him as a common male ancestor. Italy. Italian, The answer is Italy.


Sorry to break it to you but the line has nothing to do with Italian ancestry. R1a, and L1029(the line Tesla belongs) arrived during the great migration wave with Proto-Slavic tribes, and possibly Germanized Proto-Slavs(Goths). Its presence in Italy can be due to a number of reasons. The romans hired 300 Antes mercenaries(eastern proto slavs) and brought them to Rome to fight the germanic incursions in the North. Alternatively, many Proto-Slavs were assimilated into the Byzantine ethnos, and would have arrived to Sardinia when under their control, or to the Italian mainland as a Greek Speaking or Albanian speaking migrant whose earliest ancestor was an assimilated Proto-Slav. Italy also hired many Slavic mercenaries that were used in its campaigns, and Venetian Dalmatia is another avenue by which assimilation could have occurred of local Slavic tribes.

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## Fatherland

> The unmutated L line that I have for the Y - DNA ( the original unmutated is from Sardenia, the Sardinian. ) Rest easy and eat pasta



Sounds like coping, projecting and wishful thinking.

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## Dibran

> Sounds like coping, projecting and wishful thinking.



Trziniec Culture is considered an offshoot of Corded Ware. I think it could have spread from that cultural horizon, east, south, and predominantly west. This could explain its occurrence in the region of the Volga and Urals(cultural horizon of Volga Bulgars), in Central Europe(with Pannonian Avars and Proto-Slavs) and further Eastward surprisingly upwards of 25 percent of M458 has been found in Nogai, KaraNogai, and Karakalpaks!! According to historical accounts, when the Old Volga Bulgars were overrun by Khazars(pushing some westward into the Balkans) some could have fallen under the Horde. Explaining how it has such a high occurrence in these Mongol tribes. It is also found upwards of 20 percent in North and South Caucasus, among Adyghe, Shapsug, Dargins, and Lezgins. It is roughly 5-10 percent among Caucasian Avars(which may or may not have something to do with Pannonian Avars). 

I assume it spread from the Trziniec culture and was simultaneously apart of Proto-Slavs, Avars, and Volga Bulgars. It is even in Volga Tatars. Imagine the shock if it was actually Avar. I don't think Slavs would cope with the idea that more than 40 percent of central Europe is Avar rape spawn lol. Jokes aside I think these groups all carried it in some proportion. However, it formed a cornerstone of Proto-Slavic tribes.

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## john.draganici

Finally, someone is getting to the meat of his history and it's connection to italy. All the lies wrapped up around this guy called Tesla. He actually moved to usa with his brother. Then Tesla fathered two boys with this woman named maria. She took the boys to zurich then routed them back to the USA through Trieste. Each boy took a different last name, just as Tesla and his brother did upon arrival in the usa. After registering these boys on Ellis island as Slav immigrants (around 1910), each boy took a different last name, just as Tesla and his brother did upon arrival in the usa. . They then moved to Newburgh, NY, where Tesla was working on pre thule anti gravity down on the Hudson just north of Washington Park. This was all hsi return from Colorado and after Huston street was intentionally burned down. SO many lies after 1880, what about the one's from before. I'm speaking directly to the italian draganici bloodline and it's relationship to the Medici family. Indeed, there were engineers among the financiers. It is this bloodline that possesses the ccr5 gene mutation, oddly. The cypher is Apple.

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## Dibran

> Finally, someone is getting to the meat of his history and it's connection to italy. All the lies wrapped up around this guy called Tesla. He actually moved to usa with his brother. Then Tesla fathered two boys with this woman named maria. She took the boys to zurich then routed them back to the USA through Trieste. Each boy took a different last name, just as Tesla and his brother did upon arrival in the usa. After registering these boys on Ellis island as Slav immigrants (around 1910), each boy took a different last name, just as Tesla and his brother did upon arrival in the usa. . They then moved to Newburgh, NY, where Tesla was working on pre thule anti gravity down on the Hudson just north of Washington Park. This was all hsi return from Colorado and after Huston street was intentionally burned down. SO many lies after 1880, what about the one's from before. I'm speaking directly to the italian draganici bloodline and it's relationship to the Medici family. Indeed, there were engineers among the financiers. It is this bloodline that possesses the ccr5 gene mutation, oddly. The cypher is Apple.


I am a little confused lol. What does Tesla and this thread have to do with Medici? and with Draganici(I assume your line). How does any of that have to do with the threads discussion of his bloodline?

Also as far as I can tell, Tesla was never married and didn't have children. These so called children of his or their sons should take a DNA test if thats the case.

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## hrvat22

> I am a little confused lol. What does Tesla and this thread have to do with Medici? and with Draganici(I assume your line). How does any of that have to do with the threads discussion of his bloodline?
> 
> Also as far as I can tell, Tesla was never married and didn't have children. These so called children of his or their sons should take a DNA test if thats the case.


Draganići are Croatian nobles who are Tesla ancestors but the diary of Tesla in which it is written is in Belgrade in the Nikola Tesla Museum and it is not publicly exposed. That fact about the origin of Tesla allegedly is not written in that diary (according to the Serbs).

It is interesting that Serbs quote parts of that diary (how ancestor of Tesla got their nickname, surname Draganići) and when you ask them from they got this information they can not say from where. Therefore obvious that diary exist but mentione Croatian ancestors and because of that it is forbidden document for the public.

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## Dibran

> Draganići are Croatian nobles who are Tesla ancestors but the diary of Tesla in which it is written is in Belgrade in the Nikola Tesla Museum and it is not publicly exposed. That fact about the origin of Tesla allegedly is not written in that diary (according to the Serbs).
> 
> It is interesting that Serbs quote parts of that diary (how ancestor of Tesla got their nickname, surname Draganići) and when you ask them from they got this information they can not say from where. Therefore obvious that diary exist but mentione Croatian ancestors and because of that it is forbidden document for the public.


Interesting. I wonder if this John individual is Draganici than.He should test. Maybe that would lend credence to that story if that is indeed the case.

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## hrvat22

> Interesting. I wonder if this John individual is Draganici than.He should test. Maybe that would lend credence to that story if that is indeed the case.


We have John Joseph O'Neill who wrote biography of Tesla and he mentions Draganić and Mandić (mother's side) family and how ancestor of Tesla got nickname but it is also written in the supposed diary as well and surname Kalinić on the mother's side(but not Mandić surname) However John Joseph O'Neill claims and this 


> The Tesla and Mandich families originally came from the western part of 
> Serbia near Montenegro.


This claim is typical when it comes to Serbian migration to Croatia, that area is actually eastern Herzegovina. Otherwise I do not know more than one history record which exists to prove that someone (group of people) coming from this area to Croatia. So that statement of John Joseph O'Neill is most likely added to Tesla biography from a book that talks about the history of Serbs, Croats etc.

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## john.draganici

there's a lot of unwritten history and deliberately false history written....comes with the territory. He did have 2 children, 2 boys, with a woman named Maria, whom took the kids to Zurich then through Trieste, then immigrating them as new arrivals through ellis island as Slav, with 2 different last names.

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## john.draganici

> Draganići are Croatian nobles who are Tesla ancestors but the diary of Tesla in which it is written is in Belgrade in the Nikola Tesla Museum and it is not publicly exposed. That fact about the origin of Tesla allegedly is not written in that diary (according to the Serbs).
> 
> It is interesting that Serbs quote parts of that diary (how ancestor of Tesla got their nickname, surname Draganići) and when you ask them from they got this information they can not say from where. Therefore obvious that diary exist but mentione Croatian ancestors and because of that it is forbidden document for the public.


this is where the truth goes dark. Dig deep enough and you'll find blood back to northern italy, well, greater rome north. look at his face.........what is it you see? Lots of forbidden documents, from back then right up through when he went to his own funeral in disguise. His first great grandson was born on his death date, oddly. He did not hole up in the New Yorker with a pigeon. I might have fed some pigeons on a Newburgh sidewalk outside the shop by the river near the tracks. Not sure about that though, the pigeons part. Vril's away.....

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## john.draganici

most of these Tesla biographers have an agenda to reinforce a certain story line. All the old folks who knew the truth are just about dead. You'd have to have known some old oss nazi's, or a few other groups, to get anywhere near the truth.

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## john.draganici

> I am a little confused lol. What does Tesla and this thread have to do with Medici? and with Draganici(I assume your line). How does any of that have to do with the threads discussion of his bloodline?
> 
> Also as far as I can tell, Tesla was never married and didn't have children. These so called children of his or their sons should take a DNA test if thats the case.


Medici = money=power= agendas= engineer's of the court. 

And with whom would they compare their DNA? Apparently, his grandson died in January of 2017 at 99 years old.

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## Bachus

> Medici = money=power= agendas= engineer's of the court. 
> 
> And with whom would they compare their DNA? Apparently, his grandson died in January of 2017 at 99 years old.


Tested is man with surname Tesla from Raduč born village of Nikola Tesla's father https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raduč

That man has common paternal ancestor with Nikola Tesla.

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## Dibran

> Medici = money=power= agendas= engineer's of the court. 
> 
> And with whom would they compare their DNA? Apparently, his grandson died in January of 2017 at 99 years old.





> Tested is man with surname Tesla from Raduč born village of Nikola Tesla's father https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raduč
> 
> That man has common paternal ancestor with Nikola Tesla.


As Bachus said, Teslas line has been confirmed. So if he indeed had sons and You(at John) descend from his line, why don’t you take a Ydna test and prove it? The burden of proof after all rests upon you. If you test and match Tesla’s male relative than your words may be true. Until then it seems like guesswork.

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## Bachus

Tesla's ancestors lived is village Vukovsko near Kupres in the middle age https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donje_Vukovsko
They moved to northern Dalmatia around Knin in 16th century, and about 1690 they moved to village Raduč in Lika. 
In year 1700 on census of Lika by bishop Brajković families Teslić lived in villages Raduč and Ostrovica as Orthodox.
In year 1712 on Austrian census of Lika in Raduč are mentioned Stanko Teslić with father Božo, Milašin Teslić and Stojak Teslić. In neighboring village Ostrovica are mentioned Marko Teslić, Dmitar Teslić and Janko Teslić.
From sources in 1700 and 1712 it's visible that Tesla's ancestors had surname Teslić, later was creared form Tesla (probably during the 18th century).
Acording to sources Tesla family is connected with few Serbian families from Western Bosnia, Lika and Northern Dalmatia. All these families carry Slava Đurđevdan (St. George's day) like Tesla family and some of them are tested as R1a-M458 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slava

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## hrvat22

> Bachus





> Tesla's ancestors lived is village Vukovsko near Kupres in the middle age


First time I hear it, where it says?

For now we know that Tesla ancestors supposedly coming from eastern Herzegovina.




> They moved to northern Dalmatia around Knin in 16th century, and about 1690 they moved to village Raduč in Lika.


Who says it?




> In year 1700 on census of Lika by bishop Brajković families Teslić lived in villages Raduč and Ostrovica as *Orthodox*.


What does this have to do with Serbs?




> In year 1712 on Austrian census of Lika in Raduč are mentioned Stanko Teslić with father Božo, Milašin Teslić and Stojak Teslić. In neighboring village Ostrovica are mentioned Marko Teslić, Dmitar Teslić and Janko Teslić.


What does this prove?




> Acording to sources Tesla family is connected with few Serbian families from Western Bosnia, Lika and Northern Dalmatia. All these families carry Slava Đurđevdan (St. George's day) like Tesla family and some of them are tested as R1a-M458


Where it is written?


We have John Joseph O'Neill who wrote biography of Tesla and for now we only know his claim and something that is written in a Tesla diary that allegedly does not exist, we have no family Teslić, Kupres etc.

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## Bachus

> First time I hear it, where it says?
> 
> For now we know that Tesla ancestors supposedly coming from eastern Herzegovina.
> 
> 
> 
> Who says it?
> 
> 
> ...


I would give you sources, but you don't understand Chyrillic.

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## john.draganici

Milutin? Remember, a lot of these biographers are either reinforcing a particular story line, or offering another plausible course, like O'neill, Seifer, et. al.... Cypher!

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## john.draganici

Bachus, you've been lead down an incorrect path! The name was created in the 1800's for his presence in the usa, and in fact was related to buck teeth being in the bloodline. We get so stuck on the paternal bloodline in all this, but whatever, another can of worms.

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## john.draganici

Michelangelo did not go to Herzegovina to find a model for David's nose.Tesla's nose is a damn near knock off of the David sculpture, and his hands were huge too just like the David, out of proportion to his leg length, not torso. Tesla had a long torso and relatively short legs for a somewhat tall man. And michelangelo's rival?, aaah, the irony runs deep.

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## john.draganici

> I would give you sources, but you don't understand Chyrillic.


use google translate

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## john.draganici

or we can, just post the info and we can copy and paste.

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## Bachus

> Michelangelo did not go to Herzegovina to find a model for David's nose.Tesla's nose is a damn near knock off of the David sculpture, and his hands were huge too just like the David, out of proportion to his leg length, not torso. Tesla had a long torso and relatively short legs for a somewhat tall man. And michelangelo's rival?, aaah, the irony runs deep.


Nikola Tesla have nothing to do with Italians. His was pure Serb, son of Orthodox priest. His haplogroup is proto-Slavic.
Surname Teslić is recorded in Nikola Tesla's father born village in 1712 on Austrian census.
Tesla who is tested as R1a-M458 has the closest match with Serbian family Plaćaš from Gospić in Lika and with Serbian family Kuzmić from Kotor Varoš in Bosnia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospić

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kotor_Varoš

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## john.draganici

> Nikola Tesla have nothing to do with Italians. His was pure Serb, son of Orthodox priest. His haplogroup is proto-Slavic.
> Surname Teslić is recorded in Nikola Tesla's father born village in 1712 on Austrian census.
> Tesla who is tested as R1a-M458 has the closest match with Serbian family Plaćaš from Gospić in Lika and with Serbian family Kuzmić from Kotor Varoš in Bosnia.
> 
> 
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospić
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kotor_Varoš


Whatever, people believe the Bible, and someone wrote that too. The family history is so well veiled. I gain nothing from this debate. His one grandson, a DIA director, was the commander of the Serpo mission in 65', and his great grandson was also a member of that 12 person team. Hitler's grand daughter was also on that mission, and his daughter was born on Mars in 1922. Tesla was directly involved with efforts to clone humans in the 1920's, with success achieved in the 30's. It's that twisted, and some more, so yeah, people had a reason to cover things up and it goes way, way back. Tesla was Thule, 2nd reich, but that's even a more convoluted story. Down by the river in Newburgh, after they burned down Huston Street................

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## john.draganici

oh and btw, the only way the truth about Tesla's bloodline will come out is that it contains the CCR5 mutation that was just synthetically achieved through CRISPR-cas9 editing with those 2 chinese babies. So anyone with the hiv resistant ccr5 "mutation" will be somewhere within Tesla's paternal, familial bloodline. This will be the relevant "finger print", so to speak. This naturally occurring ccr5 silencing in Tesla's bloodline is being called a mutation, but it actually a relic, just like web toes and fingers in people. This ccr5 silencing is associated with HIV resistance and important cognitive processes outlined in this MIT article. This accounts for Tesla's aptitude in certain areas, indeed, and of his kin. Tesla was not some raging genius. He was real bright, obsessive guy who worked with some real bright, rich, obsessive people. Of course, Tesla's ccr5 anomaly came from people before him, right? Bachus, find out where that came from, then you'll know the truth. It is a tangled web, with so many dimensions, quite literally. 

https://www.technologyreview.com/s/6...rains-altered/

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## Tutkun Arnaut

> Nikola Tesla have nothing to do with Italians. His was pure Serb, son of Orthodox priest. His haplogroup is proto-Slavic.
> Surname Teslić is recorded in Nikola Tesla's father born village in 1712 on Austrian census.
> Tesla who is tested as R1a-M458 has the closest match with Serbian family Plaćaš from Gospić in Lika and with Serbian family Kuzmić from Kotor Varoš in Bosnia.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospić
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kotor_Varoš


might have been Serb by nationality, but by blood was vlah, every body knows it. so by blood he was closer to romanians

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## hrvat22

> Nikola Tesla have nothing to do with Italians. *His was pure Serb, son of Orthodox priest.* His haplogroup is proto-Slavic.
> Surname Teslić is recorded in Nikola Tesla's father born village in 1712 on Austrian census.
> Tesla who is tested as R1a-M458 has the closest match with Serbian family Plaćaš from Gospić in Lika and with Serbian family Kuzmić from Kotor Varoš in Bosnia.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospić
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kotor_Varoš


Unfortunately we do not have historical data that Serbs coming to Lika or that part of Croatia, whether someone is Orthodox priest in that area and in that time does not indicate which origin is someone.

In this area Vlachs (Albanians, Romanians, Greeks, Bulgarians..etc) are mentioned and they are mostly Orthodox, there also exist and Croats converted to Orthodoxy, it's the base from which Tesla draws its origin, later Orthodox become Serbs and this is another issue that has nothing to do with original origin Lika population. That's why I quoted claim of John Joseph O'Neill who says that Tesla ancestors coming from eastern Herzegovina, allegedly all Serbs come from Eastern Herzegovina but it was claimed at the time when everyone wrote their history and this claim is actually a myth, it is enough to look at the historical data and it can be seen that there are no records of any migration from that area (eastern Hezegovina).

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## Bachus

> might have been Serb by nationality, but by blood was vlah, every body knows it. so by blood he was closer to romanians


His haplogroup have nothing to do with Vlachs. His branch of R1a is proto-Slavic and has a peak among Poles and Lusatian Serbs.

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## Bachus

> Unfortunately we do not have historical data that Serbs coming to Lika or that part of Croatia, whether someone is Orthodox priest in that area and in that time does not indicate which origin is someone.
> 
> In this area Vlachs (Albanians, Romanians, Greeks, Bulgarians..etc) are mentioned and they are mostly Orthodox, there also exist and Croats converted to Orthodoxy, it's the base from which Tesla draws its origin, later Orthodox become Serbs and this is another issue that has nothing to do with original origin Lika population. That's why I quoted claim of John Joseph O'Neill who says that Tesla ancestors coming from eastern Herzegovina, allegedly all Serbs come from Eastern Herzegovina but it was claimed at the time when everyone wrote their history and this claim is actually a myth, it is enough to look at the historical data and it can be seen that there are no records of any migration from that area (eastern Hezegovina).


K13 Eurogenes autosomal of full Lika Serb (from Udbina). He is I2-PH908.

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic *33.79*
2 North_Atlantic 22.35
3 West_Med 18.56
4 East_Med 12.69
5 West_Asian 8.12
6 Siberian 1.73
7 Red_Sea 1.12
8 Oceanian 0.93
9 South_Asian 0.72

Single Population Sharing:

Population (source) Distance:
1 Moldavian 4.63
2 Croatian 6.84
3 Serbian 8.18
4 Romanian 10.2
5 Hungarian 10.72
6 Bulgarian 11.37
7 Ukrainian_Lviv 12.17
8 Ukrainian 13.2
9 South_Polish 13.63
10 Austian 14.51
11 East_German 14.85
12 Southwest_Russian 16.47
13 Polish 16.71
14 Ukrainian_Belgorod 16.91
15 Russian_Smolensk 18.36
16 Estonian_Polish 18.69
17 Belorussian 19.61
18 Geeek_Thessaly 19.71
19 Kargopol_Russian 20.05
20 Tatar 20.7

There is no Albanians in first 20 populations by similarity. He id closer to Tatars than to Albanians.

Get lost with your cheep anti-Serbian propaganda about Albanian, Vlach and Croatians origin of Lika Serbs!

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## john.draganici

> His haplogroup have nothing to do with Vlachs. His branch of R1a is proto-Slavic and has a peak among Poles and Lusatian Serbs.



COuld it be his maternal lineage is Romanian and paternal Norther Italian, or the converse? I know, you folks keep denying the italian lineage to Tesla, but I'm pretty sure you are wrong. The better question, why, obviously, has there been some obfuscation around this issue. Seem by the early 1900's, with his fame, people would have cleared this right up? Correct? But no, clearly there's a agenda to place the history within a particular story line that has complete dead ends. Well, at least they kept the church.

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## hrvat22

> K13 Eurogenes autosomal of full Lika Serb (from Udbina). He is I2-PH908.
> 
> Admix Results (sorted):
> 
> # Population Percent
> 1 Baltic *33.79*
> 2 North_Atlantic 22.35
> 3 West_Med 18.56
> 4 East_Med 12.69
> ...


Maybe you did not register what I said, *we do not have historical records* or very little from which it is apparent that *Serbs migrating to Lika or that part of Croatia*.

We do not know originally origin of person with  I2-PH908 which you mentioned, maybe that's person(ancestor) is Croatian who converted to Orthodoxy, therefore I am not guilty becouse Orthodox peoples of Croatia and Bosnia have become Serbians. Vlachs are mentioned in historical documents and they have nothing to do with Serbians. If someone comes from Bosnia to Croatia he did not come from Serbia to Croatia, records that mention Croats existed up to Montenegro, Croats live and in Bosnia. If someone comes from Bosnia to Croatia why he should bee a Serb?

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## hrvat22

> His haplogroup have nothing to do with Vlachs. His branch of R1a is proto-Slavic and has a peak among Poles and Lusatian Serbs.


We will know that for ten years exactly. Why this haplotype could not have nothing to do with Vlachs? R1a M458 exist and in Albania, Greece, Bulgaria etc. If people with R1a M458 migrating to China some branches of this haplotype will be and Chinese origin, originally R1a M458 is Slavic but subbranch of the same age 600, 500 years can be and Chinese origin, that's logic. If someone is assimilates into Vlachs does not mean that he is not Vlach because it has an R1a haplotype.

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## john.draganici

> Whatever, people believe the Bible, and someone wrote that too. The family history is so well veiled. I gain nothing from this debate. His one grandson, a DIA director, was the commander of the Serpo mission in 65', and his great grandson was also a member of that 12 person team. Hitler's grand daughter was also on that mission, and his daughter was born on Mars in 1922. Tesla was directly involved with efforts to clone humans in the 1920's, with success achieved in the 30's. It's that twisted, and some more, so yeah, people had a reason to cover things up and it goes way, way back. Tesla was Thule, 2nd reich, but that's even a more convoluted story. Down by the river in Newburgh, after they burned down Huston Street................


 I know for sure it was not Teslic'. ANd I know for sure there is buck teeth in the bloodline. FYI

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## Dibran

> There is no Albanians in first 20 populations by similarity. He id closer to Tatars than to Albanians.
> 
> Get lost with your cheep anti-Serbian propaganda about Albanian, Vlach and Croatians origin of Lika Serbs!


You should really verify things before commenting. Of course he doesn't get Albanians in k13, Albanians are not even included in that calculator. Instead we're modeled as Tuscan/Greek Thessaly etc.

Also some Proto-Slavic lineages were assimilated centuries prior to some of these migrations. Some Vlach migrations that became more southern balkan admix could have definitely carried I2-Din/M458/Z280. You speak alot without thinking. You also said there is no way it could be anything but Proto-Slavic and now there is R1a/I2a-Din Magyar elites. 

Personally I think he was Serb, but could have been of Vlach/Croatian origin. To assume these lineages could not have moved with non-slavic speakers is wrong. You have been wrong more often than not.

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## LABERIA

> Please, listen to yourself...
> 1. Fatherhood is not 100% sure thing, neither Tesla's or his family descendents.
> 2. People change last names.


I stopped to read this thread after this your post.
I don`t understand how can be discussed for almost two long years about the haplogroup of someone that has never been tested. Tomenable has this ability to provoke interesting discussions.  :Grin:

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## Bachus

> You should really verify things before commenting. Of course he doesn't get Albanians in k13, Albanians are not even included in that calculator. Instead we're modeled as Tuscan/Greek Thessaly etc.
> 
> Also some Proto-Slavic lineages were assimilated centuries prior to some of these migrations. Some Vlach migrations that became more southern balkan admix could have definitely carried I2-Din/M458/Z280. You speak alot without thinking. You also said there is no way it could be anything but Proto-Slavic and now there is R1a/I2a-Din Magyar elites. 
> 
> Personally I think he was Serb, but could have been of Vlach/Croatian origin. To assume these lineages could not have moved with non-slavic speakers is wrong. You have been wrong more often than not.


Origin of Nikola Tesla's ancestors is known. Their the oldest known settlement was Kupres plateau where they lived in the middle age https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kupres
In 16th century Tesla's ancestors moved to northern Dalmatia, and in late 17th century they moved to Lika where they were recorded in cencus of bishop Brajković in 1700 and in Austrian census 1712.
Tesla family probably have same further with Serbian family Svitlica from Kupres, they celebrate same Slava - St. Geogre's day https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slava
Svitlica family live on Kupres since middle age. When some of Svitlice will be tested than we will know are they related, there is high chance that they are related.
Tested Serb with surname Tesla from Lika who is R1a-M458>L1028 and who has common paternal ancestors with Nikola Tesla has a matches only with few Serbs.

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## Dibran

> Origin of Nikola Tesla's ancestors is known. Their the oldest known settlement was Kupres plateau where they lived in the middle age https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kupres
> In 16th century Tesla's ancestors moved to northern Dalmatia, and in late 17th century they moved to Lika where they were recorded in cencus of bishop Brajković in 1700 and in Austrian census 1712.
> Tesla family probably have same further with Serbian family Svitlica from Kupres, they celebrate same Slava - St. Geogre's day https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slava
> Svitlica family live on Kupres since middle age. When some of Svitlice will be tested than we will know are they related, there is high chance that they are related.
> Tested Serb with surname Tesla from Lika who is R1a-M458>L1028 and who has common paternal ancestors with Nikola Tesla has a matches only with few Serbs.


Congratulations. That literally does not answer anything I said, nor was I questioning his origin.

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## Yetos

Nikola Draganic Tesla, 
Son of who?
anybody knows?

8 may of 1919
given to him the Edison award
CHARLES A. TERRYS in his ceremonial speach,(page 3) says a name, the occupation, and the origin of father Tesla.
interesting is the Julian Hawthorne (page 225) on Tesla origins.

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## john.draganici

> Nikola Draganic Tesla, 
> Son of who?
> anybody knows?
> 
> 8 may of 1919
> given to him the Edison award
> CHARLES A. TERRYS in his ceremonial speach,(page 3) says a name, the occupation, and the origin of father Tesla.
> interesting is the Julian Hawthorne (page 225) on Tesla origins.


 A more important date to the Tesla discussion, in this immediate era, is 2/19/18. There was a route from FLorence to Milan to Trieste', then into croatia for the slav intermix story root. I suspect Romanian in his mother's bloodline. Please expound on Terry's speech content, and what does Julian Hawthorn say of his origins?

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## Yetos

> A more important date to the Tesla discussion, in this immediate era, is 2/19/18. There was a route from FLorence to Milan to Trieste', then into croatia for the slav intermix story root. I suspect Romanian in his mother's bloodline. Please expound on Terry's speech content, and what does Julian Hawthorn say of his origins?



his mother was a sister of bishops.
from a typical clergy family, where half become monks priests bishps etc,

his father is the question

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## john.draganici

Seifer is a cypher, a deception point, a painter of a false narrative mixed with a couple truths. I wouldn't put too much faith in his lineage depiction. 





> his mother was a sister of bishops.
> from a typical clergy family, where half become monks priests bishps etc,
> 
> his father is the question

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## Yetos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iie8U5rngwA

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## john.draganici

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iie8U5rngwA



Again, another production, mixing a couple truths with a bunch of lies. It's so much deeper, gotta see the NY times piece about his observations in Colorado.

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## Yetos

> A more important date to the Tesla discussion, in this immediate era, is 2/19/18. There was a route from FLorence to Milan to Trieste', then into croatia for the slav intermix story root. I suspect Romanian in his mother's bloodline. Please expound on Terry's speech content, and what does Julian Hawthorn say of his origins?


all data are certain about his mother,
She was a sister, a sibling of a family with bonds to Serbian church and patriarchate,
her brother was a bishop, and many relaticves were priest, diaconoi etc.
about his father, they both say, 
he was a priest, but not Serbian,

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## john.draganici

> all data are certain about his mother,
> She was a sister, a sibling of a family with bonds to Serbian church and patriarchate,
> her brother was a bishop, and many relaticves were priest, diaconoi etc.
> about his father, they both say, 
> he was a priest, but not Serbian,


He was Italian from the draganici bloodline. It was not just in Nikola's face, but his build and hands. Too bad there's no film footage. I could show you it in his walk. A man's gate is passed on. It was through Trieste from Florence, prior, connected through medici affiliations. Tesla was the great, great, great, grandson of an undisclosed son of Leonardo DaVinci. And he did have two sons, with maria, but not Lenny.

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## john.draganici

> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iie8U5rngwA


btw, this is a doctored cover photo of Tesla. He did not have such a square, heavy jaw line. The rest of is fairly accurate for him as a 30 year old.

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## DRAKON

Thank you to everyone who contributed to this thread, even though 2 years have passed since the last post, the information is still important. Too bad there is not an authenticated Family Tree for Nikola Tesla showing his bloodline inheritance since a man like him only comes along once in a century. 

The brilliance of a man like Tesla is passed off as an anomaly since most of the Tesla family and records were murdered and destroyed by Croatian Fascist Ustashe during WWII. 11 Teslas are listed as killed at Jasenovac death camp by the American Holocaust Museum. Go to AHM Victim's List and see for yourself. Other Teslas were hunted down for the crime of being Orthodox Serbs. 

The Ustashe entered Smiljan where Tesla was born and killed over 500 people. They burned down the Tesla home and church where his father preached. And they did this AGAIN during the 1990s civil war in Yugoslavia. Later the Croats rebuilt the church and home for tourists because they realized there's money in Tesla tourism. 

They did all this because `Tesla was a Croat'?!

WHY? Was the TESLA bloodline targeted?

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