# Population Genetics > Autosomal Genetics >  Post your DNA Land results

## Hauteville

Please discuss

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## Tomenable

When I get my results from FTDNA, I will put them through DNA.Land and post here.

Meanwhile, check also: http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...-with-DNA-Land

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## Promenade

West Eurasian 100%
Northwest European 60%

Balkan 21%

North Slavic 5%

Finnish 4.7%

Southwestern European 8%

Ambiguous 1.2%



These were my results, surprised at all the Balkan/Finnish ancestry but I guess it's deeper ancestry from neolithic times?

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## Tomenable

> surprised at all the Balkan/Finnish ancestry but I guess it's deeper ancestry from neolithic times?


What is your (known) ethnic background?

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## Promenade

> What is your (known) ethnic background?



I'm an American mutt but I've done a lot of research and created a fairly detailed pedigree. 

My grandfather had ancestry from Ireland, Bavaria, Wurttemberg and France. 
My grandmother had ancestry from Lower Saxony, Wurttemberg and Pomerania. 
Other Grandfather had ancestry from Lower Saxony, Bremen, Scotland, Netherlands and Ireland. 
And my other grandmother had ancestry from Lower Saxony, Lower Silesia and Ireland. 

I'm only missing a few 3x and 4x great grandparents that I couldnt track back to outside the US, but I think this is much more detailed than most people with deep ancestry in the states know. The Balkan and Finnish just look out of place to me

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## Athiudisc

West Eurasian 100%
Northwest European 77%

North Slavic 8.6%

South/Central European 7.4%

Ambiguous 6.6%



My ancestry is Frankish German, Saxo-Frisian Dutch, Anglo-Danish English and Gaelic Irish.

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## HYGILI4K

Mine:

DNA Land.jpg

Dad is of italian descent (5/8 veneto, 2/8 tuscan and 1/8 lombardian) and mom is central portuguese (Castelo Branco province);

Dravidian was a surprise. Maybe some of my ancestors came from India when part of it was controlled by Portugal.

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## Twilight

Okay, this is getting historically strange. How come Uralic keeps on showing up in my DNA results. The farthest east my recorded ancestors ever lived was in West Prussia and 4% of my DNA came from West Prussia. 











West Eurasian 100%
Northwest European 79%

South European 8.8%
Ambiguous 8.8%

Northeast European 7.8%
Finnish 4.7%

Ambiguous 3.1%

Ambiguous 4.6%

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## Tomenable

*A random modern Belarusian:*



*Five random modern Poles:*

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## Promenade

> Okay, this is getting historically strange. How come Uralic keeps on showing up in my DNA results. The farthest east my recorded ancestors ever lived was in West Prussia and 4% of my DNA came from West Prussia. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We received the same amount of Finnish ancestry even though neither of us have known Finnish or Far north east european ancestors. Coincidentally enough we also both have ancestry from western Prussia. I dont think this test is very accurate, but it's interesting to note.

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## Ukko

> We received the same amount of Finnish ancestry even though neither of us have known Finnish or Far north east european ancestors. Coincidentally enough we also both have ancestry from western Prussia. I dont think this test is very accurate, but it's interesting to note.

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## Sile

mine is below

West Eurasian 100%
South European 58%
South/Central European 39%

Balkan 19%

Northwest European 27%

Sardinian 8.4%

Ambiguous 3.5%

North Slavic 3%

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## Fluffy

West Eurasian 100%
Northwest European 61%

Southwestern European 19%

Balkan 15%

Northeast European 4%
North Slavic 2.1%

Finnish 1.9%

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## Promenade

@Ukko
I am aware that the original Prussians were Balts and of the connection between Balts and Finns but I've never received Finnish in any other genetic test (excluding Wegene). Also by that time I'm guessing most of Prussia, especially western Prussia was either heavily Germanized or Polanized. Finns are still largely a genetic isolate in terms of autosomal dna, even from neighboring groups that share their Y-DNA. The DNA DNAland detected in us could be of Finnish origin, but I'm not convinced

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## jgviv

How accurate this test is?

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## Maleth

West Eurasian 100%

---------------------

Mediterranean Islander 82% 
Finnish 8.7% 
Northwest European 5.3%
Southwestern European 3.7%

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## John Doe

With 23andme I get around 96% Ashkenazi and the rest unknown, strangely though with FTDNA I get 88% Ashkenazi and 11% South Central European.

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## Maleth

> With 23andme I get around 96% Ashkenazi and the rest unknown, strangely though with FTDNA I get 88% Ashkenazi and 11% South Central European.


They all vary, I guess the calculating base would be from different sources. Even this Dna Land now has a different interpretation.

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## davef

> West Eurasian 100%
> 
> ---------------------
> 
> Mediterranean Islander 82% 
> Finnish 8.7% 
> Northwest European 5.3%
> Southwestern European 3.7%


WOW your results are so legit for you Maleth it's almost funny! Scoring through the roof in the Mediterranean islander category is totally appropriate for a Maltese person! I guess its your northern ancestry that brought it down.

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## Maleth

> WOW your results are so legit for you Maleth it's almost funny! Scoring through the roof in the Mediterranean islander category is totally appropriate for a Maltese person! I guess its your northern ancestry that brought it down.


 :Grin:  In fact this is what it says about Med Islander = *Mediterranean Islander**Includes: Cypriot in Cyprus; Italian/EastSicilian and Italian/WestSicilian in Italy and Maltese in Malta

Does not include: Egyptian in Egypt; Tunisian in Tunisia; Albanian in Albania; Greek in Greece; Palestinian in (Central) Israel; Sardinian and Toscani in (Sardinia and 1 other site) Italy; Syrian in Syrian and Turkish in (Adana, Aydin, Kayseri and 1 other site) Turkey*

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## davef

Well I'm glad they don't include those groups. If i recall, Malta, Sicily and Cyprus are mediterranean islands. Italy and Egypt aren't. Lol. I don't quite know the story behind the list of populations in the "does not include" list, is it just a reminder that they were able to tell albanians, levantines, etc apart from med islanders? That can't be overly difficult.

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## Maleth

> Well I'm glad they don't include those groups. If i recall, Malta, Sicily and Cyprus are mediterranean islands. Italy and Egypt aren't. Lol. I don't quite know the story behind the list of populations in the "does not include" list, is it just a reminder that they were able to tell albanians, levantines, etc apart from med islanders? That can't be overly difficult.


I presume its all about general autosmal dna which gives (clusters) Sicily and Malta (which happens to be islands) (probably Ashkenazi Jews?....and Cypriots too?) a very similar mix, give and take, similar kind of minestrone, compared to other regions around. Spanish Islands are not included for example. It seems that DNA land are more straight forward and have based their information on similar average regional autosmal results, making new classifications, compared to the more complicated ancestry breakdowns you get say on Gedmatch.

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## Angela

I wonder how some other groups score on this. I know that some Spaniards and Portuguese cluster with the Near East on 23andme. It would be interesting to see the scores of people from Ibiza, for example, or people from southern Portugal or parts of Andalucia.

Of course, if they're doing one cluster centered on Iberia, all the minority ancestry might get absorbed by that.

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## davef

@Maleth
You mean just a more "big picture" relationship between people of the eastern mediterranean starting from italy? Makes sense. There's an interesting ashkenazi/Levantine category made up of various levantines, med islanders, and east euros. 

@Angela
Spaniards grouping with near easterners? Once again my mind is blown! Are they actual
Spaniards?

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## Angela

> Davef: @Angela
> Spaniards grouping with near easterners? Once again my mind is blown! Are they actual
> Spaniards?


Who knows? That's why all analyses of results from "individuals" should come with a huge "BUYER BEWARE" sign. I used to share with someone who said he was, and I saw where he clustered on 23andme's version of a PCA, but how do you verify the ancestry of all four of someone's ancestors ? I also saw some screenshots other people had taken, but again, who knows? I sometimes get the feeling that New Worlders who have minority SSA or Amerindian claim they're actually fully Spanish or Portuguese. I did have a pretty good relationship with a Hispanic person who clustered there although I don't understand why, so maybe some of the screenshots I saw of supposedly "pure" Iberians were actually those of Hispanics. Again, I don't know why they'd cluster there, though. Is it just the few percent of SSA that moves them there?

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## Regio X

23andMe - West Eurasian 100%:	

South European 38%:	Balkan 27%; South/Central European 11%.
Northwest European 31%.
Southwestern European 16%: Southwestern European 8.6%; Sardinian 7.5%.
Ashkenazi/Levantine 14%: Mediterranean Islander 9.2%; Ashkenazi 4.7%.
Kalash 1.3%.

FTDNA - West Eurasian 100%:

South European 58%: South/Central European 40%; Balkan 19%.
Northwest European 27%.
Southwestern European 8.1%: Southwestern European 6.9%; Sardinian 1.2%.
Mediterranean Islander 5.1%.
Ambiguous 1.2%.

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## davef

> Who knows? That's why all analyses of results from "individuals" should come with a huge "BUYER BEWARE" sign. I used to share with someone who said he was, and I saw where he clustered on 23andme's version of a PCA, but how do you verify the ancestry of all four of someone's ancestors ? I also saw some screenshots other people had taken, but again, who knows? I sometimes get the feeling that New Worlders who have minority SSA or Amerindian claim they're actually fully Spanish or Portuguese. I did have a pretty good relationship with a Hispanic person who clustered there although I don't understand why, so maybe some of the screenshots I saw of supposedly "pure" Iberians were actually those of Hispanics. Again, I don't know why they'd cluster there, though. Is it just the few percent of SSA that moves them there?


Don't quite see how being a few percent ssa will get you from spain to the Mideast. Did you see his test results?

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## Angela

We had a bit of a tiff, so we no longer share. I sensed a lot of racism in the attitudes and the preoccupations...you know, lots of phenotype talk, like who, or what group is more "exotic", that sort of thing. I never understood that. Exotic by whose standards? Is there a template somewhere? Who decided what it should look like? Lots of talk too about how much SSA did X person have versus Y person, or X group versus Y group. 

Definitely not stuff I wanted to continue to give head room to, so I cut off communication.

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## davef

> We had a bit of a tiff, so we no longer share. I sensed a lot of racism in the attitudes and the preoccupations...you know, lots of phenotype talk, like who, or what group is more "exotic", that sort of thing. I never understood that. Exotic by whose standards? Is there a template somewhere? Who decided what it should look like? Lots of talk too about how much SSA did X person have versus Y person, or X group versus Y group. 
> 
> Definitely not stuff I wanted to continue to give head room to, so I cut off communication.


Did you see his actual results? Odd for a full Iberian to be that close to near eastern populations. Perhaps he was sephardic...

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## Angela

Sephardic? I've never met a Sephardic Jew who considered himself Spanish or spoke Spanish at home or identified with the culture in any way. They're usually from North Africa or with roots in the Near East. They don't live in Spain, and they know a lot less about it than I do. What they might speak is Ladino, which is very different. They're not going to be up on classical Spanish guitar or know all this stuff about small towns in Galicia. The only thing I don't know is if all four grandparents were from Spain. As for the Hispanic person with whom I got friendly, I knew a lot about the background there too, the food, the relatives etc. As for the screen shots I saw, it was all second hand, so who knows, maybe they were all Hispanics and not Spanish at all


What I don't understand is why a Hispanic with only about 4-5% or so SSA and 2-3% Amerindian would plot in the Near East. We tried to figure it out, but couldn't come to any conclusions. I wouldn't go building any conclusions on it; I don't think the 23andme PCA was much good.

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## davef

> Sephardic? I've never met a Sephardic Jew who considered himself Spanish or spoke Spanish at home or identified with the culture in any way. They're usually from North Africa or with roots in the Near East. They don't live in Spain, and they know a lot less about it than I do. What they might speak is Ladino, which is very different. They're not going to be up on classical Spanish guitar or know all this stuff about small towns in Galicia. The only thing I don't know is if all four grandparents were from Spain. As for the Hispanic person with whom I got friendly, I knew a lot about the background there too, the food, the relatives etc. As for the screen shots I saw, it was all second hand, so who knows, maybe they were all Hispanics and not Spanish at all
> 
> 
> What I don't understand is why a Hispanic with only about 4-5% or so SSA and 2-3% Amerindian would plot in the Near East. We tried to figure it out, but couldn't come to any conclusions. I wouldn't go building any conclusions on it; I don't think the 23andme PCA was much good.


Yeah, just a shot in the dark, really with the sephardic guess. They're the only group I can think of from the "Spanish" world who would plot even remotely middle eastern. 

So besides ssa and Native American, is the rest of him european? I know I'm sitting on this but this error makes me question 23 and me even more. Even Native American can't get you to the Middle East bc i doubt modern middle easterners share much if anything with native Americans but a lot of them do have sub Saharan that amounts to something.

Or maybe the pca is plain garbage. Wonder if other calculators plot him in the Middle East. If they plot him in Iberia (ok a bit outwards with the ssa and Native American) then the pca doesn't work properly.

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## Angela

> Yeah, just a shot in the dark, really with the sephardic guess.* They're the only group I can think of from the "Spanish" world who would plot even remotely middle eastern.* 
> 
> So besides ssa and Native American, is the rest of him european? I know I'm sitting on this but this error makes me question 23 and me even more. Even Native American can't get you to the Middle East bc i doubt modern middle easterners share much if anything with native Americans but a lot of them do have sub Saharan that amounts to something.
> 
> Or maybe the pca is plain garbage. Wonder if other calculators plot him in the Middle East. If they plot him in Iberia (ok a bit outwards with the ssa and Native American) then the pca doesn't work properly.


Well, I wouldn't go so far as all that. Here's a Behar PCA. Quite a few of the Spanish samples are quite close to the Middle Eastern samples. It depends what reference samples you have, the number of samples etc. I grant you this is very different from what we usually see, but it's just to show the differences that can exist. Part of it may be because the reference sample for Spaniards that is usually used is half Catalan, so I don't know how representative it is of the whole country. That's drastically overweighting it with one of the more "northern" groups. 

In the case of 23andme most of their reference samples are their own clients, so it's going to be different from a random sample chosen by scientists, although in the case of 23andme you're going to have a lot more samples than the researchers normally get. Another thing that occurs to me is that the 23andme PCA might have had a combined Near East/North African area. Maybe those particular Spanish samples were plotting with North Africans. That just occurred to me, by the way, but I can't check it because they've removed that feature. Too bad.

http://i.imgur.com/aNaQLL6.jpg

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## davef

> Well, I wouldn't go so far as all that. Here's a Behar PCA. Quite a few of the Spanish samples are quite close to the Middle Eastern samples. It depends what reference samples you have, the number of samples etc. I grant you this is very different from what we usually see, but it's just to show the differences that can exist. Part of it may be because the reference sample for Spaniards that is usually used is half Catalan, so I don't know how representative it is of the whole country. That's drastically overweighting it with one of the more "northern" groups. 
> 
> In the case of 23andme most of their reference samples are their own clients, so it's going to be different from a random sample chosen by scientists, although in the case of 23andme you're going to have a lot more samples than the researchers normally get. Another thing that occurs to me is that the 23andme PCA might have had a combined Near East/North African area. Maybe those particular Spanish samples were plotting with North Africans. That just occurred to me, by the way, but I can't check it because they've removed that feature. Too bad.
> 
> http://i.imgur.com/aNaQLL6.jpg


Those maps are interesting but weird...in the left pca, some of those Spaniards are sitting in with the south italians, cypriots and jews and Georgians are surprisingly european. I can't judge correctness, but it's quite a surprise. 

And those North Africans you mentioned probably had spanish heritage...or the Spaniards who clustered with those had North African heritage. Or spain isn't as homogenous as one would expect.

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## davef

Then again I know pca's can distort things...a half Saudi half irish individual would probably plot in Cyprus or something. You can't make a cypriot out of an irish parent and a Saudi parent. That's insane.

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## Angela

Actually, in this particular PCA, there are three Italian clusters, ITA A, B, and T, which is Tuscan. All three of them are north of those Spanish samples that are drifting among the Cypriots and some toward the Armenians. The main Spanish cluster is with the Tuscans. I don't know the geographical location from which those samples came. 

Like I said, it all depends on the samples you have. 23andme may in some instances have more, but they weren't randomly chosen. Behar had their own set. The set that is often used in academic studies is heavily weighted toward Catalans. 

Then there's methodology to consider. As I said, I can't remember if the 23andme "PCA" type feature combined the Near East and North Africa. 

Then, with 23andme, as I also said, when person X says, these are my results and I'm from place Y, there's no way of verifying if that's the truth, or even if they themselves are aware of the specific regional or ethnic ancestry of all four of their grandparents.

So, it's as well to take a lot of this stuff with a huge grain of salt, imo.

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## davef

Yeah samples matter. I wonder if the cypriots in that study have greek blood? They're in line with south italians but in most maps they usually plot south of any european. And Spaniards usually are a bit higher than north italians in most other maps but those are likely the Catalans you mentioned. 

Then again I think reading percentages and numbers would be more informative. A half orcadian half Lebanese would plot as north as Georgian jews in the left map while still having higher north european percentages than them. Its a matter of having enough Levantine blood to plot there.

PCAs only say where one plots, not why. At least that's my guess. The explaination rests on actual numbers and percentages. Am I right?

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## Angela

> Yeah samples matter. I wonder if the cypriots in that study have greek blood? They're in line with south italians but in most maps they usually plot south of any european. And Spaniards usually are a bit higher than north italians in most other maps but those are likely the Catalans you mentioned. 
> 
> Then again I think reading percentages and numbers would be more informative. A half orcadian half Lebanese would plot as north as Georgian jews in the left map while still having higher north european percentages than them. Its a matter of having enough Levantine blood to plot there.
> 
> *PCAs only say where one plots, not why. At least that's my guess. The explaination rests on actual numbers and percentages. Am I right?*


Generally true, I think, but again, what is being relied upon? If it's the same old unverifiable results from something like Gedmatch, how reliable are those percentages? 

As I pointed out above, someone tells you he's 100% X ancestry. How do you know that's true? Maybe three grandparents are from that region, but one isn't. Or, the person publishing that information may not be being truthful. It's a sad fact that this hobby is riddled with racists of one variety or another, or just seriously neurotic, if not psychotic people. We've had some recent "unmaskings" right here on this board. Would you rely on something relayed to you by a person like that? I wouldn't.

Then, it's an Admixture program, which can be useful, but definitely has its limitations. The results have to be interpreted by someone who understands Admixture, not some half educated yahoo on the internet. Where the samples were taken is also very important. To use our example from above, how representative of the Spanish as a whole is a sample that is 50% Catalan? Also, who created it? Was the sampling balanced, or was it done to "highlight" certain ancestry? A whole article was issued recently pointing out the errors that academics have made in running Admixture and drawing conclusions from it, so how much worse are the problems in amateur created programs?

The problem with genetic genealogy is that genetic results are being "interpreted" or disseminated by people who either don't have the background to understand the material, or have ulterior motives. I've personally seen people disseminate absolutely falsely labeled material. Why would I accept anything a person like that presents as "proof". 

It's like a witness who impeaches himself or herself. 

Just look at people who have posted here presuming to instruct the rest of us what people from various parts of Italy look like, *when they've never set foot in the country in their entire lives.* And no, it isn't the same thing to be around some Italian Americans in one particular American city. I've lived among them, married among them, and most of them, unless they're in their 90's and actually did the immigrating, don't have a clue in what particular towns in Sicily, for example, each of their four grandparents originated. All my husband knew was the province. It's pathetic. Plus, this is going to be a subset, and not necessarily a representative subset. Then, the idiocy continues by comparing their appearance with that of various middle easterners, of whom they've probably met a handful in their lives. The chutzpah is pretty amazing.

So, always, it's a case of "buyer beware". The gullibility of people in this field, even academics at times, is really astounding. They need to spend a couple of months in any criminal fraud bureau.

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## suebiking

I am sorry but what iberian result are you people discussing. Maybe I look bad for asking but I did not see any in this thread.

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## davef

@suebilking
It's ok, the result is only mentond of in this thread, it isn't displayed.

@angels
True! I know that italy itself is very diverse and you get phenotypes of all sorts (basing this off of my limited knowledge).

Also, in the map to the right, the Spaniards in fact DO plot north of Tuscans abs south italians plot north of cypriots but why? Were different samples being used or is it that different areas of the genome were being analyzed?

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## suebiking

well it's allright, I did not understand that.

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## Regio X

> Please discuss





> 23andMe - West Eurasian 100%: 
> 
> South European 38%: Balkan 27%; South/Central European 11%.
> Northwest European 31%.
> Southwestern European 16%: Southwestern European 8.6%; Sardinian 7.5%.
> Ashkenazi/Levantine 14%: Mediterranean Islander 9.2%; Ashkenazi 4.7%.
> Kalash 1.3%.
> 
> FTDNA - West Eurasian 100%:
> ...


In Gedmatch, my results based on 23andMe and FTDNA data are similar one another, but in DNA Land they're significantly different. 
Besides, I have run the data four times, in different months, and the percentages have always been changed. I don't know why. Perhaps the genomes submitted, or part of them, are used by the algorithm, or it's still under development process, i.e., the algorithm itself would have changed a lot. Or both. (?)

My mother, full Italian/Venetian, came out as 51% Balkan. Odd!

Well, I take this with a ton of salt.

Father's - West Eurasian 100%: 

South European 41%: South/Central European 29%; Balkan 12%.
Northwest European 29%.
Southwestern European 17%: Southwestern European 14%; Sardinian 2.9%.
Ashkenazi 8.8%.
North Slavic 2.9%.
Ambiguous 1.4%.

Mother's - West Eurasian 100%:

South European 57%: Balkan 51%; South/Central European 6.2%.
Northwest European 29%.
Southwestern European 14%: Sardinian 9.9%; Southwestern European 4.4%.

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## davef

> In Gedmatch, my results based on 23andMe and FTDNA data are similar one another, but in DNA Land they're significantly different. 
> Besides, I have run the data four times, in different months, and the percentages have always been changed. I don't know why. Perhaps the genomes submitted, or part of them, are used by the algorithm, or it's still under development process, i.e., the algorithm itself would have changed a lot. Or both. (?)
> 
> My mother, full Italian/Venetian, came out as 51% Balkan. Odd!
> 
> Well, I take this with a ton of salt.
> 
> Father's - West Eurasian 100%: 
> 
> ...


Maybe ftdna looks at different genes? Hmmm...8.8 percent Jewish seems awfully high for a north italian, I can only imagine what south italians get in that category (should be much higher given the stronger east med background). 23 and me and ftdna did an excellent job telling Jews apart from South Italians and it seems that this program has ways to go, at least in that aspect. 

So yeah, it seems to have much room for improvement.

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## Regio X

> Maybe ftdna looks at different genes? Hmmm...8.8 percent Jewish seems awfully high for a north italian, I can only imagine what south italians get in that category (should be much higher given the stronger east med background). 23 and me and ftdna did an excellent job telling Jews apart from South Italians and it seems that this program has ways to go, at least in that aspect. 
> 
> So yeah, it seems to have much room for improvement.


Yes, it looks at different genes, but, still, I would say those differences in DNA Land couldn't be so big.
And yes, these 8.8 percent Ashkenazi doesn't make much sense. It seems to me as well that 23andMe and FTDNA did a good job in this matter. :)

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## Sile

> In Gedmatch, my results based on 23andMe and FTDNA data are similar one another, but in DNA Land they're significantly different. 
> Besides, I have run the data four times, in different months, and the percentages have always been changed. I don't know why. Perhaps the genomes submitted, or part of them, are used by the algorithm, or it's still under development process, i.e., the algorithm itself would have changed a lot. Or both. (?)
> 
> My mother, full Italian/Venetian, came out as 51% Balkan. Odd!
> 
> Well, I take this with a ton of salt.
> 
> Father's - West Eurasian 100%: 
> 
> ...


why is this balkan number odd? ..............genetic papers always link venetians with Bulgarians and south-french, the laz papers of 2014 where the first to find this close link. Cleary they do not mean the modern bulgarians or modern south-french.............more like thracians and gaulish people

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## Sile

BTW, I was given this as which companies should more accurate AuDna numbers

-23andme version 3

-Natgeno 2 ( first version and transferred to ftdna )

-Ftdna

-British DNA

-Ancestry

-23andme version 4

-23andme version 2

If there are others, they where not given

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## Angela

> why is this balkan number odd? ..............genetic papers always link venetians with Bulgarians and south-french, the laz papers of 2014 where the first to find this close link. Cleary they do not mean the modern bulgarians or modern south-french.............more like thracians and gaulish people


This has nothing to do with ancient peoples; it's all based* only* on modern allele frequencies. 

This is why people shouldn't take "Admixture" clusters so seriously. It all depends how one groups the clusters. In this case, they grouped the Balkans and north/central Italy and called it "Balkan".

Somebody else would create an "Italian" centrum somewhere in Italy and measure everyone in terms of that, which is what 23andme did.

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## Sile

> This has nothing to do with ancient peoples; it's all based* only* on modern allele frequencies. 
> 
> This is why people shouldn't take "Admixture" clusters so seriously. It all depends how one groups the clusters. In this case, they grouped the Balkans and north/central Italy and called it "Balkan".
> 
> Somebody else would create an "Italian" centrum somewhere in Italy and measure everyone in terms of that, which is what 23andme did.


then what does the laz link represent?

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## davef

So you can have a db with only Russians and sub saharans, have a Turk go through the test, and the Turk would come out as partially Russian. This is one way a test can trick its participants, correct? Because it would count the Turk's western hunter gatherer genes that are found in Russians and not in sub saharans as "Russian"?

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## Regio X

@Angela
I think DNA Land called it "South European". Balkan is Albanian + Bulgarian + Greek, and South/Central European is Bergamo + Tuscan, isn't that right?

@Sile
51%!? It's really hard to believe in such number, especially if we consider DNA Land is based on modern people. Besides, don't you think odd a Venetian being closer to Balkan than to Bergamo? Likely the link you mentioned helps to explain the result, but it would be still a bad result, imo, even if Bessica/Bessega (where a grandfather of my mother had roots) has been colonized by "Bessoi" soldiers in Roman times. :) 
Btw, the Balkan cluster exists also in 23andMe, and my mother gets between 7 and 8% there (version 4). Well, it seems to me there are sufficient evidences (see also previous posts) showing DNA Land "have much room for improvement", as davef says. :)

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## Angela

> @Angela
> I think DNA Land called it "South European". Balkan is Albanian + Bulgarian + Greek, and South/Central European is Bergamo + Tuscan, isn't that right?
> 
> @Sile
> 51%!? It's really hard to believe in such number, especially if we consider DNA Land is based on modern people. Besides, don't you think odd a Venetian being closer to Balkan than to Bergamo? Likely the link you mentioned helps to explain the result, but it would be still a bad result, imo, even if Bessica/Bessega (where a grandfather of my mother had roots) has been colonized by "Bessoi" soldiers in Roman times. :) 
> Btw, the Balkan cluster exists also in 23andMe, and my mother gets between 7 and 8% there (version 4). Well, it seems to me there are sufficient evidences (see also previous posts) showing DNA Land "have much room for improvement", as davef says. :)


I'm sure you know better than I do. I don't pay very much attention to these things any more. Really, it's only ancient dna and how it proves or disproves archaeology and ancient history that interests me. 

What I do know is that on Kurd's calculator with no Bergamo or Tuscan reference samples, I always come out as someone from the Balkans, usually Bulgarian or Albanian or something in the top two. 

Cavalli-Sforza pointed out forty years ago that northern Italians are close to the people of the northern Balkans (not Greeks). That's old hat. However, a calculator that tells me I'm Bulgarian is useless because I'm not. On any calculator with Bergamo and Tuscan samples I'm right between them. When the "North Italy" sample from Piemonte is included, I'm closest to them. Obviously, calculators with those reference samples are better at "placing" me. 

This dividing Europe into "clusters" is fraught with difficulty, especially in southern Europe. DNA Land has obviously aggregated those alleles which northern Italians *share* with Balkan peoples, and includes them in the Balkans cluster or labels them as "Balkan". If they created a "Northern Italian" cluster of those shared north Italian/Balkan genes and called them north Italian, people in the Balkans would get big North Italian percentages. One isn't more "right" than another.

What I do know is that northern Italians are not Bulgarians, and Tuscans are not Albanians, even if they might place relatively near each other on a PCA plot or they share some alleles. Yes, they were equally impacted by certain population migrations, but on the other hand, there are definite differences in terms of which "northern" or central European groups affected them, as just one example. Northern Italians got more from the "Celts" and the "Germanics", although the Balkans got some. On the other hand, the Balkans got more influence from the "Slavs", and even in some cases from the Central Asiatics. So, they're not the same people, and any calculator that gives that impression isn't any good. 

Obviously, we know that someone from the Veneto should be closer to someone from Bergamo or Brescia than to someone from Bulgaria. 

Oh, Genographic is another example. Do they still cluster Italians and Greeks together? That's bound to give a whole different set of percentages.

No, I don't think these programs and calculators are very useful other than for telling you how typical you are for your specific place and time. National borders have been too fluid in Europe and there's been too much moving around. They're not going to be able to tell me the only other things that would interest me, such as how much "Roman", or Etruscan, or Celt, or Lombard I am, although the ones based on ancient samples can tell me pretty accurately how Anatolian Neolithic I am, or steppe herder, or WHG, so maybe with enough ancient samples someday we'll get calculators that could do this. Of course, we would have to prepare to be disappointed in that case. I'm going to be really bummed out if I have no Etruscan in me, for example, given that I've been studying them and romanticizing them since I was in university.

----------


## davef

> @Angela
> I think DNA Land called it "South European". Balkan is Albanian + Bulgarian + Greek, and South/Central European is Bergamo + Tuscan, isn't that right?
> 
> @Sile
> 51%!? It's really hard to believe in such number, especially if we consider DNA Land is based on modern people. Besides, don't you think odd a Venetian being closer to Balkan than to Bergamo? Likely the link you mentioned helps to explain the result, but it would be still a bad result, imo, even if Bessica/Bessega (where a grandfather of my mother had roots) has been colonized by "Bessoi" soldiers in Roman times. :) 
> Btw, the Balkan cluster exists also in 23andMe, and my mother gets between 7 and 8% there (version 4). Well, it seems to me there are sufficient evidences (see also previous posts) showing DNA Land "have much room for improvement", as davef says. :)


Just read a result for a south italian; he scored about 50% Ashkenazi/Levantine so yes there's room!

----------


## Sile

> @Angela
> I think DNA Land called it "South European". Balkan is Albanian + Bulgarian + Greek, and South/Central European is Bergamo + Tuscan, isn't that right?
> 
> @Sile
> 51%!? It's really hard to believe in such number, especially if we consider DNA Land is based on modern people. Besides, don't you think odd a Venetian being closer to Balkan than to Bergamo? Likely the link you mentioned helps to explain the result, but it would be still a bad result, imo, even if Bessica/Bessega (where a grandfather of my mother had roots) has been colonized by "Bessoi" soldiers in Roman times. :) 
> Btw, the Balkan cluster exists also in 23andMe, and my mother gets between 7 and 8% there (version 4). Well, it seems to me there are sufficient evidences (see also previous posts) showing DNA Land "have much room for improvement", as davef says. :)


Bessoi "Roman" troops are from Bessi Thracian tribe on the modern border of Bulgaria and Greece. Many Bessi fled other Thracian tribes to seek help by Rome.

You should know the history of Bessica, a frazione of the town of Loria in Veneto ..............I seen this story as my mother's line is directly north of Loria in San Zenone. 

BTW There are 3 women of Loria that married into my uncles ( mothers line ) .............................If you privately send me your surname , I will ask my mother

----------


## Sile

Balkans..................what does balkans represent in genetics.

Some have Romania and Slovenia in the Balkans and some exclude them as part of the Balkans ................I have yet to see what is Genetics Balkans

----------


## Pax Augusta

Personally, I wouldn't take too seriously DNA-LAND.

----------


## Sile

> mine is below
> 
> West Eurasian 100%
> South European 58%
> South/Central European 39%
> 
> Balkan 19%
> 
> Northwest European 27%
> ...


Eurogenes has North_italian markers ( most likely the last calculator to use them apart from Mdlp23

mine below

K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013

*Admix Results (sorted):*

*#*
*Population*
*Percent*

1
North_Atlantic
29.88

2
West_Med
22.94

3
East_Med
17.23

4
Baltic
17.04

5
West_Asian
8.44

6
Red_Sea
2.34




Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 North_Italian @ 6.760091
2 Tuscan @ 10.795969
3 Romanian @ 11.411736
4 Bulgarian @ 12.733378
5 Portuguese @ 12.821866
6 Serbian @ 12.969690
7 Spanish_Extremadura @ 13.613523
8 Spanish_Galicia @ 13.654930
9 Greek_Thessaly @ 14.260424
10 Spanish_Cataluna @ 14.529769
11 Spanish_Murcia @ 15.000357
12 Spanish_Valencia @ 15.101360
13 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 15.240896
14 Spanish_Andalucia @ 15.292781
15 French @ 15.305198
16 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 16.560854
17 Italian_Abruzzo @ 17.069130
18 Spanish_Cantabria @ 17.566936
19 West_Sicilian @ 17.631674
20 Southwest_French @ 18.649832


and 


*MDLP K23b Oracle Rev 2014 Sep 16
*


*Admix Results (sorted):*

*#*
*Population*
*Percent*

1
European_Early_Farmers
29.03

2
Caucasian
27.88

3
European_Hunters_Gatherers
25.56

4
South_Central_Asian
5.03

5
Near_East
4.22

6
North_African
4.16

7
Ancestral_Altaic
3.18

8
Melano_Polynesian
0.75

9
South_Indian
0.2



*Single Population Sharing:*

*#*
*Population (source)*
*Distance*

1
Italian_North ( )
2.33

2
German-Volga ( )
7.59

3
South_German ( )
8.16

4
Italian_Piedmont ( )
9.46

5
Italian_Bergamo ( )
9.88

6
Austrian ( )
9.97

7
Italian_Tuscan ( )
10.27

8
Belgian ( )
11.31

9
Frisian ( )
11.49

10
Dutch ( )
12.02

11
North_German ( )
12.38

12
Hungarian ( )
12.9

13
Slovenian ( )
12.94

14
Irish ( )
13.31

15
Serb_Serbia ( )
13.33

16
Italian_Abruzzo ( )
13.61

17
English ( )
13.62





The fabricated story by someone on my German-Volga link is that it is Balkar people who are a mix of Avars and Bulgars ( who where around the south Volga area ).......I doubt this, but I am unsure

----------


## Angela

> Just read a result for a south italian; he scored about 50% Ashkenazi/Levantine so yes there's room!


What, did Sikelliot pull another "exotic" southern Italian set of results out of his hat? It must be like Nanny's bag in Mary Poppins; it's never empty, always something more to pull out. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AivZSC9J3Rs

Why don't any of these people ever post their own results, or contact an actual Italian? If you do come into contact with them, tell them we'd love to speak to them here, in Italian or dialect as they prefer, and find out how much they know about all four of their grandparents.

----------


## Regio X

> I'm sure you know better than I do. I don't pay very much attention to these things any more. Really, it's only ancient dna and how it proves or disproves archaeology and ancient history that interests me. 
> 
> What I do know is that on Kurd's calculator with no Bergamo or Tuscan reference samples, I always come out as someone from the Balkans, usually Bulgarian or Albanian or something in the top two. 
> 
> Cavalli-Sforza pointed out forty years ago that northern Italians are close to the people of the northern Balkans (not Greeks). That's old hat. However, a calculator that tells me I'm Bulgarian is useless because I'm not. On any calculator with Bergamo and Tuscan samples I'm right between them. When the "North Italy" sample from Piemonte is included, I'm closest to them. Obviously, calculators with those reference samples are better at "placing" me. 
> 
> This dividing Europe into "clusters" is fraught with difficulty, especially in southern Europe. DNA Land has obviously aggregated those alleles which northern Italians *share* with Balkan peoples, and includes them in the Balkans cluster or labels them as "Balkan". If they created a "Northern Italian" cluster of those shared north Italian/Balkan genes and called them north Italian, people in the Balkans would get big North Italian percentages. One isn't more "right" than another.


That makes a lot of sense. So DNA Land should try something like a "Broadly South", like in 23andMe. In fact, the way it is now, without this kind of label, I would say neither the "Northwest European" percentage could be much higher - or even higher - than the "South/Central European" (Bergamo + Tuscan) percentage, in our context.
The same here: in Gedmatch, when "North Italy" and/or "Tuscan" are present, most of times they're the first populations in my oracle. MDLP K13's seems the best.




> What I do know is that northern Italians are not Bulgarians, and Tuscans are not Albanians, even if they might place relatively near each other on a PCA plot or they share some alleles. Yes, they were equally impacted by certain population migrations, but on the other hand, there are definite differences in terms of which "northern" or central European groups affected them, as just one example. Northern Italians got more from the "Celts" and the "Germanics", although the Balkans got some. On the other hand, the Balkans got more influence from the "Slavs", and even in some cases from the Central Asiatics. So, they're not the same people, and any calculator that gives that impression isn't any good. 
> 
> Obviously, we know that someone from the Veneto should be closer to someone from Bergamo or Brescia than to someone from Bulgaria.


Perfect!




> Oh, Genographic is another example. Do they still cluster Italians and Greeks together? That's bound to give a whole different set of percentages.
> 
> No, I don't think these programs and calculators are very useful other than for telling you how typical you are for your specific place and time. National borders have been too fluid in Europe and there's been too much moving around. They're not going to be able to tell me the only other things that would interest me, such as how much "Roman", or Etruscan, or Celt, or Lombard I am, although the ones based on ancient samples can tell me pretty accurately how Anatolian Neolithic I am, or steppe herder, or WHG, so maybe with enough ancient samples someday we'll get calculators that could do this. Of course, we would have to prepare to be disappointed in that case. I'm going to be really bummed out if I have no Etruscan in me, for example, given that I've been studying them and romanticizing them since I was in university.


I have always been curious about the migrations around the world, and naturally even more about the migrations to North Italy from other lands in the past centuries or millennia. Doing the tests, besides helping research somehow, find relatives etc., I would have at least an idea about how these migrations affected me, how close or how far in genetic sense I am from a given people or person, with Italian/Venetian background or not, and stuff like that. My interest on genetics in general was born on the way, and it was a plus. :) Particularly, I think the tests provided a satisfactory notion on that, but, like you, I want more, of course. It would be really amazing if it was possible to calculate how much Etruscan we are, for example. Yes, someday...




> Bessoi "Roman" troops are from Bessi Thracian tribe on the modern border of Bulgaria and Greece. Many Bessi fled other Thracian tribes to seek help by Rome.
> 
> You should know the history of Bessica, a frazione of the town of Loria in Veneto ..............I seen this story as my mother's line is directly north of Loria in San Zenone. 
> 
> BTW There are 3 women of Loria that married into my uncles ( mothers line ) .............................If you privately send me your surname , I will ask my mother


I have two ggggg-grandparents from San Zenone, related to the Bessica's branch. heheh I'm going to send you a message.




> Balkans..................what does balkans represent in genetics.
> 
> Some have Romania and Slovenia in the Balkans and some exclude them as part of the Balkans ................I have yet to see what is Genetics Balkans


Specifically in DNA Land:

*Balkan*
Includes: Albanian in Albania; Bulgarian in Bulgaria and Greek in (2 sites) Greece
Does not include: Egyptian in (2 sites) Egypt; Belarusian in Belarus; Italian/EastSicilian, Italian/Bergamo and Toscani in (Bergamo and 2 other sites) Italy; Lithuanian in Lithuania; Ashkenazi Jew in Poland; Turkish in (Aydin, Balikesir and Istanbul) Turkey; Ukrainian in (East) Ukraine and Ashkenazi Jew from East Europe especially Lithuania (expat in Baltimore MD)

*South/Central European*
Includes: Italian/Bergamo, Italian/Tuscan and Toscani in (Bergamo, Tuscany and 1 other site) Italy
Does not include: Albanian in Albania; Basque/French in France; Italian/EastSicilian, Italian/WestSicilian and Sardinian in (Sardinia and 2 other sites) Italy and Lithuanian in Lithuania




> What, did Sikelliot pull another "exotic" southern Italian set of results out of his hat? It must be like Nanny's bag in Mary Poppins; it's never empty, always something more to pull out. 
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AivZSC9J3Rs
> 
> Why don't any of these people ever post their own results, or contact an actual Italian? If you do come into contact with them, tell them we'd love to speak to them here, in Italian or dialect as they prefer, and find out how much they know about all four of their grandparents.


Great movie! :)

----------


## Hauteville

> Just read a result for a south italian; he scored about 50% Ashkenazi/Levantine so yes there's room!


Southern Italy fit into Mediterranean Islander cluster while Ashkenazi have their own cluster too.

----------


## Pax Augusta

> *MDLP K23b Oracle Rev 2014 Sep 16
> *
> 
> 
> *Admix Results (sorted):*
> 
> *#*
> *Population*
> *Percent*
> ...


German-Volga comes out also in the results of this woman from Asiago Altopiano, high plateau northwest of Vicenza, Veneto, North-East Italy. 


Single Population Sharing:

#	Population (source)	Distance
1	Italian_North ( )	3.53
2	Italian_Piedmont ( )	8.08
3	Italian_Tuscan ( )	8.21
4	German-Volga ( )	9.9
5	Serb_Serbia ( )	10.55
6	Austrian ( )	10.69
7	South_German ( )	10.84
8	Italian_Bergamo ( )	10.96
9	Italian_Abruzzo ( )	11.15
10	Greek_Northwest ( )	12.21
11	Slovenian ( )	12.22
12	Hungarian ( )	12.35
13	Sicilian_Trapani ( )	12.43
14	Montenegrian ( )	12.49
15	Kosovar ( )	12.56
16	Sicilian_West ( )	12.63
17	Hungarian_Budapest ( )	13.21
18	Maltese ( )	13.71
19	Bulgarian ( )	13.86
20	Serb_BH ( )	14.01

----------


## davef

What's up with these hierarchys? For example south/Central Europe breaks down into Tuscany and north italy and Balkans breaks down into Albania, Bulgaria, med islander breaks down into Sicily, Malta, Cyprus etc.My confusion stems from the fact that Sicily and Cyprus, as an example are clearly differnt genetically so why are they grouped into the same category?

----------


## Hauteville

> What's up with these hierarchys? For example south/Central Europe breaks down into Tuscany and north italy and Balkans breaks down into Albania, Bulgaria, med islander breaks down into Sicily, Malta, Cyprus etc.My confusion stems from the fact that Sicily and Cyprus, as an example are clearly differnt genetically so why are they grouped into the same category?


Indeed, that's a nonsense.

----------


## Sile

> German-Volga comes out also in the results of this woman from Asiago Altopiano, high plateau northwest of Vicenza, Veneto, North-East Italy. 
> 
> 
> Single Population Sharing:
> 
> # Population (source) Distance
> 1 Italian_North ( ) 3.53
> 2 Italian_Piedmont ( ) 8.08
> 3 Italian_Tuscan ( ) 8.21
> ...


Thanks, Many asiago people settled there after WW2 due to Tito want of italians to leave dalmatia and istria

----------


## Tomenable

My results (I'm native to Greater Poland):

North Slavic 55%
Northwest European 36%
South European 9,5%:
a) Balkan 8,2%
b) South/Central Euro 1,3%

----------


## Tomenable

By comparison here is an Austrian guy native to Lavanttal:

----------


## Tomenable

Here are my *puntDNAL K15* *Admixture Proportions:*

*AdmixResults (sorted):*

# Population Percent

1 NE_European 63.87
2 Mediterranean 23.07
3 Caucasian 8.62
4 SW_Asian 2.75

*Single Population Sharing:*

# Population(source) Distance

1 Polish 2.06
2 Swedish 4.03
3 Norwegian 6.35
4 North_German 6.79
5 Belarusian 7.58
6 Slovenian 7.94
7 Scottish 8.18
8 Austrian 8.36
9 Orcadian 8.57
10 Irish 8.96
11 Russian 9.03
12 Hungarian 9.25
13 Mordovian 9.39
14 English 9.55
15 Karelian 10
16 Finnish 11.06
17 Lithuanian 11.07
18 Croatian 11.26
19 Utahn_White 12.85
20 South_German 13.53

*Mixed Mode Population Sharing:*

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance

1 55.3% Irish + 44.7% Lithuanian @ 1.31
2 97.2% Polish + 2.8% Lezgin @ 1.32
3 97.1% Polish + 2.9% Chechen @ 1.37
4 97.3% Polish + 2.7% Balkar @ 1.37
5 97.5% Polish + 2.5% North_Ossetian @ 1.38
6 97.8% Polish + 2.2% Abkhasian @ 1.39
7 97.4% Polish + 2.6% Kumyk @ 1.4
8 98% Polish + 2% Georgian @ 1.41
9 97.8% Polish + 2.2% Armenian @ 1.5
10 97.7% Polish + 2.3% Turk_Istanbul @ 1.5
11 97.8% Polish + 2.2% Iranian @ 1.52
12 97.8% Polish + 2.2% Azerbaijani @ 1.52
13 98% Polish + 2% Turk_Trabzon @ 1.53
14 97.9% Polish + 2.1% Assyrian @ 1.54
15 97.8% Polish + 2.2% Kurdish @ 1.55
16 97.7% Polish + 2.3% Turk_Kayseri @ 1.56
17 97.4% Polish + 2.6% Nogai @ 1.57
18 98.3% Polish + 1.7% Makrani @ 1.61
19 98.1% Polish + 1.9% Druze @ 1.63
20 90% Polish + 10% Croatian @ 1.64

*Least-squares method:*

*Using 1 population approximation:*

1 Polish @ 2.238746
2 Swedish @ 4.368013
3 Norwegian @ 6.937643
4 North_German @ 7.445572
5 Belarusian @ 8.280502
6 Slovenian @ 8.800512
7 Scottish @ 8.935552
8 Austrian @ 9.235437
9 Orcadian @ 9.406956
10 Russian @ 9.506400
11 Irish @ 9.863779
12 Mordovian @ 9.869370
13 Hungarian @ 10.260476
14 English @ 10.468441
15 Karelian @ 10.544641
16 Finnish @ 11.698936
17 Lithuanian @ 12.190455
18 Croatian @ 12.493614
19 Utahn_White @ 14.122682
20 South_German @ 14.882483

*Using 2 populations approximation:*

1 50% Lithuanian +50% Irish @ 1.767380

*Using 3 populations approximation:
*
1 50% Lithuanian +25% Scottish +25% Serbian @ 1.412848

*Using 4 populations approximation:*

1 Lithuanian + Belarusian + Irish + Irish @ 1.370878
2 Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Scottish + Serbian @ 1.412848
3 Lithuanian + Polish + Swedish + Croatian @ 1.493977
4 Lithuanian + Lithuanian + North_German + Serbian @ 1.495193
5 Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Slovenian + Utahn_White @ 1.532534
6 Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Hungarian + Utahn_White @ 1.532589
7 Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Norwegian + Serbian @ 1.536387
8 Lithuanian + Polish + Polish + Croatian @ 1.536519
9 Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Utahn_White + Croatian @ 1.539768
10 Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Slovenian + South_German @ 1.546338
11 Lithuanian + Polish + Swedish + Hungarian @ 1.549488
12 Lithuanian + Polish + North_German + Slovenian @ 1.554888
13 Lithuanian + Polish + Swedish + Slovenian @ 1.589559
14 Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Irish + South_German @ 1.594764
15 Lithuanian + Belarusian + Irish + Slovenian @ 1.595171
16 Lithuanian + Belarusian + Scottish + Croatian @ 1.604715
17 Lithuanian + Lithuanian + English + Croatian @ 1.607019
18 Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Irish + Utahn_White @ 1.607358
19 Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Swedish + Serbian @ 1.614269
20 Lithuanian + Belarusian + Irish + Austrian @ 1.632150

----------


## Tomenable

This is my Eurogenes K13:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent

1 Baltic 25.41
2 North_Sea 22.25
3 Atlantic 19.65
4 Eastern_Euro 18.22
5 West_Asian 6.36
6 West_Med 5.35
7 East_Med 2.70

----------


## citizen of the world

African 72%:	
West African 29%	
Lower Niger Valley 16%
Senegal River Valley 8.2%
Mende/Akan 4%
East African 24%
North African 19%

West Eurasian 27%:	
Arab/Egyptian 24%
Ambiguous 1.7%
Kalash 1.2%

Amazonian 1%

----------


## Volat

> My results (I'm native to Greater Poland):
> 
> North Slavic 55%
> Northwest European 36%
> South European 9,5%:
> a) Balkan 8,2%
> b) South/Central Euro 1,3%


What are the reference populations for north-western European component at DNA.Land?

----------


## Tomenable

> What are the reference populations for north-western European component at DNA.Land?


Here are the reference populations:

*North Slavic:*

Belarusian in Belarus; Estonian in Estonia; Lithuanian in Lithuania; Mordovian and Russian in Russia and Ukrainian in (East) Ukraine

*Northwest European:
*
Scottish Argyll_Bute_GBR and British in England; Icelandic in Iceland; Norwegian in Norway and Orcadian in Orkney Islands

*Balkan:
*
Albanian in Albania; Bulgarian in Bulgaria and Greek in (2 sites) Greece

*South/Central European:*

Italian/Bergamo, Italian/Tuscan and Toscani in (Bergamo, Tuscany and 1 other site) Italy

----------


## Goga

This are my results :


a.jpg


But these results don't make any sense. So called 'Central Indoeuropean' is to broad. Why is the Iranian Plateau integrated within Northern Caucasus (Maykop/Yamnaya)? I'm 100% sure that my DNA is linked much more to the Iranian Plateau (the original Urheimat of PIE, Leyla Tepe), than to the secondary PIE homeland in Northen Caucasus, Yamnaya. Therefore my Indo-Iranian component is way to low and 'Central Indoeuropean' is to high, while Indo-Iranian is actually native and originally from an area between Kurdistan and Western Iran.
I have more 'Gedrosia' component, than 'Northern Caucasus' component. But this result doesn't show that.


b.jpg


So, I don't agree with the results!!

----------


## LeBrok

> This are my results :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But these results don't make any sense. So called 'Central Indoeuropean' is to broad. Why is the Iranian Plateau integrated within Northern Caucasus (Maykop/Yamnaya)? I'm 100% sure that my DNA is linked much more to the Iranian Plateau (the original Urheimat of PIE, Leyla Tepe), than to the secondary PIE homeland in Northen Caucasus, Yamnaya. Therefore my Indo-Iranian component is way to low and 'Central Indoeuropean' is to high, while Indo-Iranian is actually native and originally from an area between Kurdistan and Western Iran.
> I have more 'Gedrosia' component, than 'Northern Caucasus' component. But this result doesn't show that. 
> 
> ...


Finally your delusion of being some sort of pure race unravels. OMG, you have two major components and what with the Arab and Jew "contamination" and some others?

----------


## Sile

> Finally your delusion of being some sort of pure race unravels. OMG, you have two major components and what with the Arab and Jew "contamination" and some others?


Don't be silly

You would really look at any % under 5 ?

He is indo-iranian into central european

----------


## Goga

> Don't be silly
> 
> You would really look at any % under 5 ?
> 
> He is indo-iranian into central european


They call it Central *INDO*european, mio caro amico.

Actually, I thought I would be more 'Semitic'. My own prediction was that Kurds in general would have between 5 -10 % Semitic DNA in them (yeah, from ancient Jews of Babylon, Akkadians, Chaldeans, Assyrian, Egyptians (from the Mitanni era), modern Arabs etc.).

1.8 % Arab/Egyptian + 1.5 % Ashkenazi = 3.3 % Semitic. It is LESS than I thought!


I don't have any Jewish ancestors. Dnal.land is a Jewish site. So that so called 1,5% Ashkenazi component is a Jewish conspiracy against me and Iranians in general!

----------


## Sile

> They call it Central *INDO*european, mio caro amico.
> 
> Actually, I thought I would be more 'Semitic'. My own prediction was that Kurds in general would have between 5 -10 % Semitic DNA in them (yeah, from ancient Jews of Babylon, Akkadians, Chaldeans, Assyrian, Egyptians (from the Mitanni era), modern Arabs etc.).
> 
> 1.8 % Arab/Egyptian + 1.5 % Ashkenazi = 3.3 % Semitic. It is LESS than I thought!
> 
> 
> I don't have any Jewish ancestors. Dnal.land is a Jewish site. So that so called 1,5% Ashkenazi component is a Jewish conspiracy against me and Iranians in general!


the bulk of kurds should be non-semitic people who originate north of the zargos mountains

try this company and see what you get

https://www.wegene.com/en/

----------


## Twilight

> They call it Central *INDO*european, mio caro amico.
> 
> Actually, I thought I would be more 'Semitic'. My own prediction was that Kurds in general would have between 5 -10 % Semitic DNA in them (yeah, from ancient Jews of Babylon, Akkadians, Chaldeans, Assyrian, Egyptians (from the Mitanni era), modern Arabs etc.).
> 
> 1.8 % Arab/Egyptian + 1.5 % Ashkenazi = 3.3 % Semitic. It is LESS than I thought!
> 
> 
> I don't have any Jewish ancestors. Dnal.land is a Jewish site. So that so called 1,5% Ashkenazi component is a Jewish conspiracy against me and Iranians in general!


I wouldn't be so sure about that, Abraham from Genesis came from the Mesopotamian city of Ur. You're Ashkenazi ancestry could have just as easily been a proxy for Mesopotamian ancestry or maybe assimilated European migrants into Kurdistan. I Mtdna J1c7a is a popular Jewish mtdna but I'm not of Jewish ancestry and according to Maciamo, mtdna J1c is Paleolithic Balkan.

----------


## Goga

> the bulk of kurds should be non-semitic people who originate north of the zargos mountains
> 
> try this company and see what you get
> 
> https://www.wegene.com/en/


Done. Will get the results within 3 working days.

Thank you very much for the link!

----------


## Goga

> I wouldn't be so sure about that, Abraham from Genesis came from the Mesopotamian city of Ur. You're Ashkenazi ancestry could have just as easily been a proxy for Mesopotamian ancestry or maybe assimilated European migrants into Kurdistan. I Mtdna J1c7a is a popular Jewish mtdna but I'm not of Jewish ancestry and according to Maciamo, mtdna J1c is Paleolithic Balkan.


Hebrew is native to the Levant, but the name of their God YAHWEH has either Mesopotamian or Hurrian roots. 

The only ancient 'European' migrants I can think about are East Iranian speaking Sarmato/Alanians ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alans ) from the Pontic Steppe. Scythians/Sarmato-Alanians helped the Medes (direct ancestors of the Kurds) to defeat the Assyrians. Maybe that's why there is some Steppe ancestry in Kurdistan +also some Y-DNA hg. I2a. But maybe those Scythians/SAKA were from Central Asia, I don't know.
Also, not sure about the origin of the legendary Cimmerians ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimmerians ), but Cimmerians had at least the Iranian leadership and helped the Medes (Kurds) to defeat the Armenians/Urartu. Cimmerians together with some Medes eventually settled down in Cappadocia and in Commagene.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cappadocia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Commagene

" _The cultural identity of the Kingdom of Commagene has been variously characterized. Pierre Merlat suggests that the Commagenian city of Doliche, like others in its vicinity, was "half Iranianized and half Hellenized". "_




My mtDNA is HV1b2. HV1b2 has North West Asian roots. Family of my mother has nothing to do with the Jews. Many, many Ashkenazi Jews do belong to this mtDNA haplogroup. Also many Jews have Iranic Y-DNA R1a-Z93.

http://kurdishdna.blogspot.nl/2013/10/hv1b2-discovered-among-yezidi-kurd.html



Some say that Ashkenazi-Levite Jews have Iranian roots, from the Parthian era. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parthian_Empire )


http://kurdishdna.blogspot.nl/2012/07/ashkenazi-jews-and-their-iranian-origin.html

http://kurdishdna.blogspot.nl/2013/12/ashkenazi-levite-jews-and-their-iranian.html

----------


## Goga

> The only ancient 'European' migrants I can think about are East Iranian speaking Sarmato/Alanians ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alans ) from the Pontic Steppe. Scythians/Sarmato-Alanians helped the Medes (direct ancestors of the Kurds) to defeat the Assyrians. Maybe that's why there is some Steppe ancestry in Kurdistan +also some Y-DNA hg. I2a. But maybe those Scythians/SAKA were from Central Asia, I don't know.
> Also, not sure about the origin of the legendary Cimmerians ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimmerians ), but Cimmerians had at least the Iranian leadership and helped the Medes (Kurds) to defeat the Armenians/Urartu. Cimmerians together with some Medes eventually settled down in Cappadocia and in Commagene.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cappadocia
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Commagene
> 
> " _The cultural identity of the Kingdom of Commagene has been variously characterized. Pierre Merlat suggests that the Commagenian city of Doliche, like others in its vicinity, was "half Iranianized and half Hellenized". "_


But then again Sarmato-Alans had Iranian Plateau 'deep-roots' and their Y-DNA was *not* I2a at all, *but* J1, J2, G2a and Iranian R1a-Z94.

https://www.academia.edu/7061155/%D0...D0%A1._312-315
https://www.academia.edu/15713987/%D...%D0%A1.146-153


NOT native to the Steppes at all..

" _In a study conducted in 2014 by V.V. Ilyinskyon on bone fragments from 10 Alanic burials on the Don River, DNA could be abstracted from a total of 7. 4 of them turned out as belonging to yDNA Haplogroup G2 and 6 of them had mtDNA I. The fact that many of the samples share the same y- and mtDNA raises the possibility that the tested individuals belonged to the same tribe or even were close relatives. Nevertheless, this is a strong argument for direct Alan ancestry of Ossetians and against the hypothesis that Ossetians are alanized Caucasic Speakers, since the major Haplogroup among Ossetians is G2 either.[54]

__In 2015 the Institute of Archaeology in Moscow conducted researches on various Sarmato-Alan and Saltovo-Mayaki culture Kurgan burials. In this analyses, the two Alan samples from 4th to 6th century AD turned out with yDNAs G2a-P15 and R1a-z94, while from the three Sarmatian samples from 2nd to 3rd century AD two turned out both with yDNA J1-M267 and one with R1a.[55] And the three Saltovo-Mayaki samples from 8th to 9th century AD turned out with yDNAs G, J2a-M410 and R1a-z94 respectively__[56]_ "

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alans



Same can be said about the Cimmerians. Cimmerians could be also very native to West Asia and not to the Pontic Steppe at all.....

----------


## Twilight

> But then again Sarmato-Alans had Iranian Plateau 'deep-roots' and their Y-DNA was *not* I2a at all, *but* J1, J2, G2a and Iranian R1a-Z94.
> 
> https://www.academia.edu/7061155/%D0...D0%A1._312-315
> https://www.academia.edu/15713987/%D...%D0%A1.146-153
> 
> 
> NOT native to the Steppes at all..
> 
> " _In a study conducted in 2014 by V.V. Ilyinskyon on bone fragments from 10 Alanic burials on the Don River, DNA could be abstracted from a total of 7. 4 of them turned out as belonging to yDNA Haplogroup G2 and 6 of them had mtDNA I. The fact that many of the samples share the same y- and mtDNA raises the possibility that the tested individuals belonged to the same tribe or even were close relatives. Nevertheless, this is a strong argument for direct Alan ancestry of Ossetians and against the hypothesis that Ossetians are alanized Caucasic Speakers, since the major Haplogroup among Ossetians is G2 either.[54]
> ...


Good history point, Iranian tribes really got around :). On a side note, having 2% Arabic DNA is mathematically equivilant to an Arabic and/or Iraqi 4th Great Grandfather maybe a little older. Perhaps tthe arabic DNA is a proxy but I'd check with your genealogical family tree to be sure.

----------


## Boreas

> This are my results :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But these results don't make any sense. So called 'Central Indoeuropean' is to broad. Why is the Iranian Plateau integrated within Northern Caucasus (Maykop/Yamnaya)? I'm 100% sure that my DNA is linked much more to the Iranian Plateau (the original Urheimat of PIE, Leyla Tepe), than to the secondary PIE homeland in Northen Caucasus, Yamnaya. Therefore my Indo-Iranian component is way to low and 'Central Indoeuropean' is to high, while Indo-Iranian is actually native and originally from an area between Kurdistan and Western Iran.
> I have more 'Gedrosia' component, than 'Northern Caucasus' component. But this result doesn't show that. 
> 
> ...


There is nothing to disagree. They don't say different thing then you be. But you are 100% right about extra large size of Central Indoeuropeans. But it is just the side effect to limited number of the samples which they have. At least, they have to divide that group into three pieces as Anatolina-Armenian, Iran-Zagros and Caucausian 

For me, now you look pretty pure as Sile said  :Good Job:  
Maybe it can be change after they divide the group.

----------


## Goga

> the bulk of kurds should be non-semitic people who originate north of the zargos mountains
> 
> try this company and see what you get
> 
> https://www.wegene.com/en/


My https://www.wegene.com/en/ results are in. The results are still very strange, but now my biggest auDNA component is Iranian again. 46.9% Iranian + 12.32% Southern Asian (Gedrosia) = *59.22*% *Indo-Iranian*.


Wegene results are now saying that I'm 33.69% Greek. It is crazy. That Greek component has to be Caucaso-Anatolian or something. Otherwise it wouldn't make any sense.

And now it is saying that I'm 7% Semitic. This is what I've expected, like I said I thought that between 5 - 10 % of Kurdish DNA is Semitic. 


c.jpg


So, according to this Chinese site I'm 59.22% *Indo-Iranian*, 33,70% *Caucaso-Anatolian* and 7.04% *Semitic*.
It's better and less biased than that Jewish DNA.land site.


I'm sure that a huge percentrage of that so called 'Greek' auDNA was actually also part of Indo-Iranian race.


Thank you for mentioning me this site!!!!

----------


## Goga

> For me, now you look pretty pure as Sile said  
> Maybe it can be change after they divide the group.


I do consider myself as an average pre-Islam proto-Kurd.

----------


## Dinarid

> My https://www.wegene.com/en/ results are in. The results are still very strange, but now my biggest auDNA component is Iranian again. 46.9% Iranian + 12.32% Southern Asian (Gedrosia) = *59.22*% *Indo-Iranian*.
> 
> 
> Wegene results are now saying that I'm 33.69% Greek. It is crazy. That Greek component has to be Caucaso-Anatolian or something. Otherwise it wouldn't make any sense.
> 
> And now it is saying that I'm 7% Semitic. This is what I've expected, like I said I thought that between 5 - 10 % of Kurdish DNA is Semitic. 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is it biased because it's Jewish?

----------


## Goga

> Is it biased because it's Jewish?


Yeah, I don't trust Jews ( + other Semites, like Assyrians & Arabs), Turks, Armenians, Indians and Poles as for genetics and history. China is much less biased toward West Eurasian history, simply because mighty Chinese folks don't care about West Eurasians and their history. China doesn't try to steal history of other races. China is proud of their own mighty history, so they don't lower themselves to steal history of other races..

----------


## Sile

> My https://www.wegene.com/en/ results are in. The results are still very strange, but now my biggest auDNA component is Iranian again. 46.9% Iranian + 12.32% Southern Asian (Gedrosia) = *59.22*% *Indo-Iranian*.
> 
> 
> Wegene results are now saying that I'm 33.69% Greek. It is crazy. That Greek component has to be Caucaso-Anatolian or something. Otherwise it wouldn't make any sense.
> 
> And now it is saying that I'm 7% Semitic. This is what I've expected, like I said I thought that between 5 - 10 % of Kurdish DNA is Semitic. 
> 
> 
> 
> ...


greek means, greek, bulgarian and anatolian (pontic )

Hungarian = Austrian, German, Hungaria, czech

Sardinian = italian


The site concentrates only on Asia and the middle-east ................that is their goal
So you results should be more accurate than me

mine is

96.55% Europe
40.99% Hungarian = as above26.43% Greek = as above16.55% Sardinian = as above12.55% French = french0.03% Others
3.43% Other Asia
3.42% Iranian = north and western Iran0.01% Others

----------


## Boreas

> I do consider myself as an average pre-Islam proto-Kurd.


Average, probably yes. As you said, Greek DNA is a little weird and that should be Anatolian-Caucausoid etc.

----------


## Boreas

> Yeah, I don't trust Jews ( + other Semites, like Assyrians & Arabs), Turks, Armenians, Indians and Poles as for genetics and history. China is much less biased toward West Eurasian history, simply because mighty Chinese folks don't care about West Eurasians and their history. China doesn't try to steal history of other races. China is proud of their own mighty history, so they don't lower themselves to steal history of other races..


Ask them to Tibetians

----------


## Boreas

According to yours, mine is so mixed. 

Here are mine and my brother's results

Mine
Boreas.jpg

My Brother's results

boreas little bro.jpg

----------


## Yetos

> Wegene results are now saying that I'm 33.69% Greek. It is crazy. 
> I'm sure that a huge percentrage of that so called 'Greek' auDNA was actually also part of Indo-Iranian race.


hi there cousin  :Laughing: 

Makedonian or Ionian?  :Thinking:

----------


## Goga

> According to yours, mine is so mixed. 
> 
> Here are mine and my brother's results
> 
> Mine
> Boreas.jpg
> 
> My Brother's results
> 
> boreas little bro.jpg


Weird. How can your brothers results be so different from yours? This test fails on so many levels.

But it seems that you guys are European (Balkan / Greeks) first, on the second place some East Eurasian (Seljuk/Turkic ?) and then some West Asian.

But the biggest surprise for me is that it is so different from Kurds. How is that possible? I mean Kurds and Turks are each neighbors for 1000 years.


Thank you very much for your contribution!

----------


## Goga

> hi there cousin Makedonian or Ionian?


Before the arrival of the Turks, Greeks and Kurds were neighbors. Ionians would make more sense than Makedonian. Maybe it has something to do with Graeco-Aryan connection. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graeco-Aryan

I'm sure that Kurds (Iranians) and Greeks share many ancient Neolithic farmer / Indo-European ancestors with each other.

----------


## Boreas

> Weird. How can your brothers results be so different from yours? This test fails on so many levels.


Different results of two brother is good example to show that how much we should trust these test, how big their standard deviation is.

Our East Asia parts are completely different. There is no common thing. :Thinking: 

Ftdna shows that my brother is 2% North African - Maghreb(which I don't have). But Dna.Land (Jewish website :Grin: ) gave him double percent Med Islander share then me. That's make sense. 

Probably our friends Maleth who is from Malta won't be 82% Mediterranean Islander and become a little bit North African in Ftdna system.

We know something about genetic, but we need to go forward to analyse it.




> But the biggest surprise for me is that it is so different from Kurds. How is that possible? I mean Kurds and Turks are each neighbors for 1000 years.


In my opinion, don't take it seriously. FtDNA has more Turk-Armenia samples so they have also one single branch for that. According to FtDNA, I am 55% European - East&South Europe, and 31% Middle Eastern - Anatolian, so when you don't see Anatolia as a group, Turks become more Continental European(as in DNA.Land 89%) and difference between Kurds and Turks is getting bigger.

----------


## Sile

> greek means, greek, bulgarian and anatolian (pontic )
> 
> Hungarian = Austrian, German, Hungaria, czech
> 
> Sardinian = italian
> 
> 
> The site concentrates only on Asia and the middle-east ................that is their goal
> So you results should be more accurate than me
> ...



below are my fathers ...............between he and me there are differences due to Different haplogroup mothers


94.01% Europe
45.23% Hungarian20.74% French18.74% Sardinian9.27% North-Slavic0.03% Others 5.97% Other Asia
5.96% Iranian0.01% Others 





looking at the above, we share the ydna from of hungarian, french, iranian and Sardinian........the others should be mtdna origins. My mother line seems to be Greek and my father's mother line would be north-slavic

so while fathers and children should be more different in marker % than brothers are 

.................................................. ...............
one of my sons is
99.97% Europe
42.16% French29.95% Greek20.94% Hungarian6.91% Sardinian0.01% Others


His mothers line should be French as this is the only increase from my results

----------


## Boreas

> 


Your Father 94,01% European
You 96,55% European
Your Son 99,97% European

I can guess your grandchild

----------


## Sile

> Your Father 94,01% European
> You 96,55% European
> Your Son 99,97% European
> 
> I can guess your grandchild


not yet, but I guess 100% european 

as one son is married to a girl of welsh ancestry and the other to a bavarian ancestry .............all australians of course

----------


## Tomenable

> Wegene results are now saying that I'm 33.69% Greek. It is crazy. That Greek component has to be Caucaso-Anatolian or something. Otherwise it wouldn't make any sense.


How about some Hellenistic legacy?:  :Grin:

----------


## davef

Or the movie 300! Angela recommended this movie to me due to its historically accurate portrayal of Leonidas's war against the Persians. 

Kidding, kidding.....

Lol

----------


## Tomenable

> This are my results :
> 
> 
> Attachment 8023
> 
> 
> But these results don't make any sense. So called 'Central Indoeuropean' is to broad. Why is the Iranian Plateau integrated within Northern Caucasus (Maykop/Yamnaya)? I'm 100% sure that my DNA is linked much more to the Iranian Plateau (the original Urheimat of PIE, Leyla Tepe), than to the secondary PIE homeland in Northen Caucasus, Yamnaya. Therefore my Indo-Iranian component is way to low and 'Central Indoeuropean' is to high, while Indo-Iranian is actually native and originally from an area between Kurdistan and Western Iran.
> I have more 'Gedrosia' component, than 'Northern Caucasus' component. But this result doesn't show that.
> 
> ...


*Goga*, these results do make sense.

"Central Indoeuropean" includes also Iranians. So I would assume that in your case it is mostly Iranian/Kurdish.

Iranians are genetically almost the same as Kurds, and very similar to Armenians and some Georgian groups.

By the way, try using GEDmatch (you have many different ancestry calculators there, check out several):

https://www.gedmatch.com/login1.php

Later I can give you some other Kurdish and Iranian admixture results from GEDmatch for comparison.

----------


## Goga

> *Goga*, these results do make sense.
> 
> "Central Indoeuropean" includes also Iranians. So I would assume that in your case it is mostly Iranian/Kurdish.
> 
> Iranians are genetically almost the same as Kurds, and very similar to Armenians and some Georgian groups.
> 
> By the way, try using GEDmatch (you have many different ancestry calculators there, check out several):
> 
> https://www.gedmatch.com/login1.php
> ...


I tried gedmatch already a long time ago. I posted my results everywhere on this site. Nothing special about it (average Kurdish).


I do understand what you mean.

And yeah, Iranians (Persians) and Kurds (Medes) are almost the same. The closest people to us are people of the Caucasus. Caucasus is even populated by East Iranian speakers, the Ossetians. Georgians (have a very small populations compared to the Iranids) are also heavily Iranized by the ancient Iranians.
But there are some distinguish differences between Armenian, Georgians and Iranians. Armenians are Anatolians shifted toward the Mediterranean Sea and Kurds/Persians are native Iranids shifted toward Anatolia. I mean they should have separated it in at least 2 more different groups. Those who have mostly from the Anatolian farmers (Armenians, Pontic Greeks & Turks) and those who are native to the Iranian Plateau + CHG (Iranian, Kurds & Caucasians).


Do you know how many times Persians defeated the Greeks? Much more than the Greeks defeated the Persians. Nerveless, nothing but kudos to Alexander, he was a true warrior and defeated/conquered the whole Aryan world. Aryans deeply respected him! 
But I don't think Greeks of that time left a huge genetic marker in the Iranian world, because after the death of Alexander the legacy of the Greeks died with Alexander. So Greeks ruled the Iranian world for a very brief time.

----------


## Sile

> Or the movie 300! Angela recommended this movie to me due to its historically accurate portrayal of Leonidas's war against the Persians. 
> 
> Kidding, kidding.....
> 
> Lol


LOL  :Laughing:  ................it was played by a scotsman

----------


## Tomenable

Have you tried Eurogenes *Steppe K10* ??? It is not available on GEDmatch.

My results (37.14% WHG-UHG + 29.54% Steppe + 29.36% Near Eastern):

29.36% Near_Eastern
0.00% East_Asian 
0.05% Siberian 
0.09% Oceanian 
37.14% WHG-UHG 
0.00% Sub-Saharan 
3.32% Hindu_Kush 
29.54% Steppe 
0.50% Amerindian 
0.00% Southeast_Asian

*4 Ancestors Oracle* (it is a bit off, because it sees me as a Czech):

Population data has been read. 180 populations found.
Personal data has been read. 20 approximations mode.
Person: Test1
Threshold of components set to 0,5%

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Czech @ 1,852706
2 Ukrainian_Lviv @ 3,797305
3 Ukrainian_Poltava @ 4,202667
4 Utah_German @ 4,712932
5 Hungarian @ 4,872053
6 Utah_Scandinavian @ 6,119147
7 Utah_USA @ 6,276021
8 Ukrainian_Kharkov @ 6,295541
9 Orcadian @ 6,392775
10 Utah_British @ 6,443461
11 Scottish @ 6,607535
12 Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 6,673569
13 English @ 6,841505
14 Icelandic @ 6,947883
15 Norwegian @ 7,110208
16 Alberstedt_LN @ 7,17376
17 Polish @ 7,588556
18 Belarusian @ 8,281611
19 Bosnian @ 8,883426
20 Serbian_Bosnia @ 9,024064
180 iterations.

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 Alberstedt_LN+Serbian_Bosnia @ 1,302357
2 Alberstedt_LN+Croatian @ 1,425368
3 Alberstedt_LN+Bosnian @ 1,548714
4 Alberstedt_LN+Hungarian @ 1,585818
5 Halberstadt_LBA+Serbian_Bosnia @ 1,782164
6 Czech+Czech @ 1,852706
7 Croatian+Halberstadt_LBA @ 1,896181
8 Bosnian+Halberstadt_LBA @ 2,006617
9 Ukrainian_Lviv+Utah_German @ 2,246481
10 Czech+Ukrainian_Lviv @ 2,329209
11 Hungarian+Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2,397398
12 Hungarian+Ukrainian_Poltava @ 2,397907
13 Hungarian+Ukrainian_Lviv @ 2,410605
14 Hungarian+Polish @ 2,436805
15 Lithuanian+Romanian @ 2,496408
16 Ukrainian_Lviv+Utah_USA @ 2,498371
17 Hungarian+Ukrainian_Kharkov @ 2,505857
18 Ukrainian_Poltava+Utah_German @ 2,506196
19 Lithuanian+Serbian @ 2,532952
20 Czech+Ukrainian_Poltava @ 2,569293
16290 iterations.

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Halberstadt_LBA +25% Corded_Ware_LN +25% Esperstedt_MN @ 0,476727
2 50% Halberstadt_LBA +25% Corded_Ware_LN +25% Sardinian @ 0,482259
3 50% BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN +25% Bergamo +25% HungaryGamba_BA @ 0,600303
4 50% Alberstedt_LN +25% Czech +25% Montenegrin @ 0,73399
5 50% Alberstedt_LN +25% Czech +25% Serbian @ 0,756658
6 50% Lithuanian +25% Greek +25% Orcadian @ 0,780602
7 50% Lithuanian +25% Greek +25% Scottish @ 0,831056
8 50% Polish +25% Halberstadt_LBA +25% Kosovar @ 0,857265
9 50% Alberstedt_LN +25% Hungarian +25% Serbian_Bosnia @ 0,860052
10 50% Utah_German +25% BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN +25% Serbian @ 0,874223
11 50% Alberstedt_LN +25% Croatian +25% Hungarian @ 0,879402
12 50% Bosnian +25% Lithuanian +25% Orcadian @ 0,923615
13 50% Utah_Scandinavian +25% BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN +25% Kosovar @ 0,925221
14 50% Halberstadt_LBA +25% Corded_Ware_LN +25% Spain_EN @ 0,970507
15 50% Alberstedt_LN +25% Bosnian +25% Hungarian @ 0,985774
16 50% Utah_German +25% BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN +25% Montenegrin @ 0,989374
17 50% Bosnian +25% Lithuanian +25% Scottish @ 0,997905
18 50% Bosnian +25% Halberstadt_LBA +25% Polish @ 1,019938
19 50% Czech +25% Alberstedt_LN +25% Bosnian @ 1,022222
20 50% Serbian_Bosnia +25% Alberstedt_LN +25% Halberstadt_LBA @ 1,032804
1100849 iterations.

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Corded_Ware_LN+Esperstedt_MN+Halberstadt_LBA+Halbe rstadt_LBA @ 0,476727
2 Corded_Ware_LN+Halberstadt_LBA+Halberstadt_LBA+Sar dinian @ 0,482259
3 Alberstedt_LN+BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN+HungaryGamba_ BA+Macedonian @ 0,522243
4 BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN+BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN+Berg amo+HungaryGamba_BA @ 0,600303
5 Alberstedt_LN+Bell_Beaker_LN+Corded_Ware_LN+Espers tedt_MN @ 0,630855
6 Basque+Corded_Ware_LN+Icelandic+Montenegrin @ 0,649659
7 Alberstedt_LN+BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN+HungaryGamba_ BA+Romanian @ 0,694624
8 Alberstedt_LN+BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN+Bulgarian+Hun garyGamba_BA @ 0,69476
9 Basque+Corded_Ware_LN+Orcadian+Serbian @ 0,713223
10 Greek+Halberstadt_LBA+Lithuanian+Polish @ 0,716618
11 Basque+Corded_Ware_LN+Montenegrin+Norwegian @ 0,729546
12 Alberstedt_LN+Alberstedt_LN+Czech+Montenegrin @ 0,73399
13 Basque+Corded_Ware_LN+Icelandic+Serbian @ 0,736825
14 BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN+Icelandic+Macedonian+Utah_G erman @ 0,737233
15 Basque+Bosnian+Corded_Ware_LN+English @ 0,738703
16 BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN+Montenegrin+Orcadian+Utah_G erman @ 0,740684
17 Alberstedt_LN+Alberstedt_LN+Czech+Serbian @ 0,756658
18 BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN+English+Lithuanian+Tuscan @ 0,765627
19 Basque+Bosnian+Corded_Ware_LN+Utah_USA @ 0,774204
20 BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN+Montenegrin+Scottish+Utah_G erman @ 0,775967
21 Greek+Lithuanian+Lithuanian+Orcadian @ 0,780602
22 BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN+English+Macedonian+Utah_Sca ndinavian @ 0,785818
23 Basque+Corded_Ware_LN+Norwegian+Serbian @ 0,800625
24 Basque+Corded_Ware_LN+Scottish+Serbian @ 0,805626
25 BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN+Lithuanian+Tuscan+Utah_USA @ 0,808601
26 Alberstedt_LN+BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN+HungaryGamba_ BA+Montenegrin @ 0,811753
27 Bosnian+Halberstadt_LBA+Lithuanian+Montenegrin @ 0,814286
28 BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN+Lithuanian+Tuscan+Utah_Brit ish @ 0,817396
29 BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN+Lithuanian+Tuscan+Utah_Germ an @ 0,826955
30 Greek+Lithuanian+Lithuanian+Scottish @ 0,831056
31 BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN+Macedonian+Utah_Scandinavia n+Utah_USA @ 0,832452
32 Alberstedt_LN+Icelandic+Macedonian+Polish @ 0,843443
33 Basque+Corded_Ware_LN+English+Serbian_Bosnia @ 0,852808
34 Halberstadt_LBA+Kosovar+Polish+Polish @ 0,857265
35 Alberstedt_LN+Alberstedt_LN+Hungarian+Serbian_Bosn ia @ 0,860052
36 Bosnian+Halberstadt_LBA+Lithuanian+Serbian @ 0,865046
37 BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN+Macedonian+Utah_German+Utah _Scandinavian @ 0,866992
38 Alberstedt_LN+Bulgarian+Icelandic+Polish @ 0,869533
39 Halberstadt_LBA+Kosovar+Lithuanian+Ukrainian_Lviv @ 0,873244
40 BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN+Serbian+Utah_German+Utah_Ge rman @ 0,874223
2947469 iterations.

----------


## davef

@Sile
Yeah it follows the tradition of casting Northern Europeans as Southern Europeans (Greeks/Romans) or middle easterners (like Persians etc) rather nicely.

Tomenable, that near eastern score is probably Natufian or something

----------


## Tomenable

> Tomenable, that near eastern score is probably Natufian or something


Most of it is from Early European Farmers.

By the way, *LeBrok* could you post your Eurogenes K13 for comparison?

*My Eurogenes K13:*

Baltic - 41,98
North Atlantic - 32,02
West Med - 9,48
West Asian - 7,55
East Med - 6,94
South Asian - 1,18
Siberian - 0,00
East Asian - 0,00
Amerindian - 0,48

*Polish average:*

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...QG0/edit#gid=0

Baltic - 42,03
North Atlantic - 30,66
West Med - 11,08
West Asian - 6,56
East Med - 6,22
South Asian - 1,02
Siberian - 0,97
East Asian - 0,45
Amerindian - 0,07

It looks like something is shifting me a bit towards the South (even though all of my great-grandparents were from Wielkopolska, which is a north-central rather than southern region). Maybe this is why I'm getting "South_Polish" 1st and "Polish" 2nd in Eurogenes calculators. And in Steppe K10 I got "Czech" 1st and "Ukrainian_Lviv" 2nd (which is like "South_Polish"  :Grin: ). 

But my ancient matches in Steppe K10 are interesting:

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Halberstadt_LBA +25% Corded_Ware_LN +25% Esperstedt_MN @ 0,476727
2 50% Halberstadt_LBA +25% Corded_Ware_LN +25% Sardinian @ 0,482259

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Corded_Ware_LN+Esperstedt_MN+Halberstadt_LBA+Halbe rstadt_LBA @ 0,476727
2 Corded_Ware_LN+Halberstadt_LBA+Halberstadt_LBA+Sar dinian @ 0,482259

Halberstadt_LBA was R1a-Z280. And that could be a sample from Lusatian culture.

----------


## Dinarid

> Yeah, I don't trust Jews ( + other Semites, like Assyrians & Arabs), Turks, Armenians, Indians and Poles as for genetics and history. China is much less biased toward West Eurasian history, simply because mighty Chinese folks don't care about West Eurasians and their history. China doesn't try to steal history of other races. China is proud of their own mighty history, so they don't lower themselves to steal history of other races..


I hope you're ********. Such an odd mix of ethnicities to distrust. As for your weird obsession with Chinese cultiure, I've seen this bizarre glorification of Asian cultures quite frequently. The Chinese are also known for copying things from other nations and just reproducing them well, so I find your sentiment quite amusing.

----------


## LeBrok

> Most of it is from Early European Farmers.
> 
> By the way, *LeBrok* could you post your Eurogenes K13 for comparison?


*#*
*Population*
*Percent*

1
Baltic
43.78

2
North_Atlantic
29.46

3
West_Med
12.49

4
West_Asian
7.36

5
East_Med
3.08

6
East_Asian
1.45

7
Red_Sea
0.82

8
Siberian
0.7

9
Northeast_African
0.36

10
South_Asian
0.26

11
Amerindian
0.24



It places me in South Poland and Ukrainian-Lviv. Which is sort of right. One of my grandfather was from Krakow, and the rest from Eastern Poland.

Couldn't find Steppe K10.
*puntDNAL K12 Ancient Oracle results:**Single Population Sharing:* *
#
Population (source)
Distance

1
Bell_Beaker_Germany_I1549
4.08

2
BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN_I0059
5.18

3
Unetice_EBA_I0117
6

4
Halberstadt_LBA_I0099
6.43

5
Corded_Ware_Estonia_RISE00
7.28

6
Nordic_LN_SG_RISE97
7.28

7
Potapovka_I0419
7.73

8
Alberstedt_LN_I0118
8.71

9
Bell_Beaker_Czech_RISE569
9.72

10
Corded_Ware_Germany_I0103
11.4

11
Srubnaya_I0232
11.4

12
Sintashta_MBA_RISE395
12.26

13
Srubnaya_I0430
12.47

14
Vatya_SG_RISE479
13.9

15
BattleAxe_Sweden_SG_RISE94
13.9

16
Corded_Ware_Germany_I0104
14.29

17
Sintashta_MBA_RISE_386
14.3

18
Andronovo_SG_RISE505
14.73

19
Hungary_BA_I1502
14.94

20
Scythian_IA_I0247
25.56


*
Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Sintashta_MBA_RISE395 +50% Hungary_BA_I1502 @ 2.196340


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Sintashta_MBA_RISE395 +25% Hungary_BA_I1502 +25% Hungary_BA_I1502 @ 2.196340

----------


## Fire Haired14

Lebrok and Tomenable are similar, ha ha. Prove race doesn't determine political views.

----------


## Yaan

West Eurasian 100%
South European 50%
Balkan 39%

South/Central European 11%

North Slavic 31%

Ashkenazi/Levantine 14%
Ashkenazi 8.6%

Ambiguous 5.1%

Arab/Egyptian 3.3%

Ambiguous 2.2%



Mine and I am Bulgarian :)

----------


## Yaan

West Eurasian 100%
South European 44%
Balkan 40%

Ambiguous 3.5%

North Slavic 28%

Mediterranean Islander 17%

Ambiguous 5%

Sardinian 4%

Kalash 2.5%


My maternal GrandPa , also Bulgarian :)

----------


## LeBrok

> Lebrok and Tomenable are similar, ha ha. Prove race doesn't determine political views.


Why should it?

----------


## Boreas

Is there anybody who can critize different analyzing methods such as Eurogenes and PuntDNAL etc. and what is K10 - K9 ....?

----------


## Boreas

> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...QG0/edit#gid=0


According to these averange results

My Eurogenes K13: -- Averange Turk
# *Population Percent* 
*1 East_Med 22.41 -- 28.97*
*2 Baltic 18.36 -- 4.32*
*3 West_Med 16.56 -- 12.01*
*4 West_Asian 15.5 -- 30.83*
*5 North_Atlantic 11.68 -- 7.02*
*6 Siberian 7.23 -- 3.63*
*7 South_Asian 4.27 -- 4.05*
*8 Red_Sea 1.11 -- 5.46*
*9 East_Asian 0.97 -- 2.41* 
*10 Oceanian 0.88 -- 0.56*
*11 Sub-Saharan 0.6 -- 0.01*
*12 Amerindian 0.21 -- 0.28*
*13 Northeast_African 0.21 -- 0.34

*Well, being a mix is sucks  :Confused: 

I am more Baltic, less West Asian
I am more West Med, less East Med these put my genetic geographic mean a little bit West but 
I am double sized Siberian then averange, it pushes me East 

Similar thing also happens in South-North. 
I am less Red Seaean but more Sub-SaharanPopulation (source) Distance
1 Greek_Thessaly 11.92
2 Bulgarian 13.44
3 Central_Greek 14.29
4 Romanian 15.32
5 East_Sicilian 15.4
6 Italian_Abruzzo 16.31
7 Ashkenazi 16.32
8 West_Sicilian 17.63
9 South_Italian 17.76
10 Serbian 19.04
11 Tuscan 19.71
12 Turkish 20.63
13 Moldavian 21.89
14 Algerian_Jewish 22.09
15 Sephardic_Jewish 22.42
16 Italian_Jewish 22.83
17 North_Italian 23.03
18 Nogay 23.31
19 Azeri 24.48
20 Cyprian 24.59

There is no proper one population. Do all of you have that much distance? The close ones are between 12-15 distance. What is our Greek, Italian friends results?


*Mixed Mode Population Sharing:
*Mixed Mode Population Sharing:


# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 51.7% Cyprian + 48.3% Tatar @ 5.39
2 72.7% Greek_Thessaly + 27.3% Afghan_Turkmen @ 5.7
3 74.2% Central_Greek + 25.8% Mari @ 5.78
4 69.2% South_Italian + 30.8% Mari @ 5.92
5 67.2% South_Italian + 32.8% Chuvash @ 6
6 75.3% Greek_Thessaly + 24.7% Uzbeki @ 6.31
7 72.7% Central_Greek + 27.3% Chuvash @ 6.35
8 72.8% East_Sicilian + 27.2% Mari @ 6.42
9 60.7% South_Italian + 39.3% Tatar @ 6.75
10 71.1% East_Sicilian + 28.9% Chuvash @ 6.76
11 59.1% Cyprian + 40.9% Chuvash @ 6.8
12 69.5% Greek_Thessaly + 30.5% Nogay @ 6.84
13 54.6% Algerian_Jewish + 45.4% Tatar @ 6.91
14 66.9% Central_Greek + 33.1% Tatar @ 6.92
15 79.1% Greek_Thessaly + 20.9% Hazara @ 7
16 83.6% Greek_Thessaly + 16.4% Hakas @ 7.08
17 82.7% Greek_Thessaly + 17.3% Shors @ 7.11
18 64.9% East_Sicilian + 35.1% Tatar @ 7.17
19 86.5% Greek_Thessaly + 13.5% Selkup @ 7.25
20 86.3% Greek_Thessaly + 13.7% Ket @ 7.33





According to modern populations the best hypothesis for me is 70% East Med-30% Altaic-Uralic

----------


## Ruqa

Mine were:

West Eurasian 100%-


Northwest European 41%

Central Asian 19%

( Indo-Iranian 12% Indus Valley 6.7% Kalash 1.2% who knows where that other 0.1 disappeared too... Maybe ambiguous) 

Balkan 15%

South Asian 15%

(Dravidian 12% and Gujrati 3.2% ... See they added 0.2% here)

Central Indoeuropean 6.3%

Ambiguous 1.5%

North Slavic 1%


Its pretty mixed isn't it.

I'm surprised to see Italian was an option, I saw is on someone else's comment. Italian didn't show up for me yet my paternal grandfather was from central Italy and his parents and theirs and I don't know how far that goes back.

The map that came with the DNA land results was interesting I had ticks from Iceland and Norway to Bangladesh and Sri Lanka.

----------


## Tomenable

Boreas,

Your results suggest that a lot of your ancestors were Turkicized Greeks (or rather Rhomaioi, Greek-speaking Romans, as they called themselves at that time). This isn't surprising for a Western Turk. You are from Istanbul which used to be called Constantinople for much of its history (and Byzantium even earlier).




> # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
> 1 51.7% Cyprian + 48.3% Tatar @ 5.39
> 2 72.7% Greek_Thessaly + 27.3% Afghan_Turkmen @ 5.7
> (...)


Seljuk Turks who invaded Anatolia in the Middle Ages were probably similar to modern Turkmens (that is where most of Seljuk forces came from, IIRC). So I think that your second result (73% Greek + 27% Turkmen) is rather accurate.




> I am more Baltic, less West Asian
> I am more West Med, less East Med these put my genetic geographic mean a little bit West but 
> I am double sized Siberian then averange, it pushes me East. Smilar thing also happens in South-North. I am less Red Seaean but more Sub-Saharan


IMO this makes perfect sense for someone with a lot of Medieval Greek ancestry from Byzantine times. Greeks usually score some Baltic and Siberian, they are shifted towards West Med as well. Sub-Saharan might be indirectly from North Africa, since nearly all of North Africans score some SSA admixture. Byzantine Empire controlled North Africa and during the Arab invasion probably many of Byzantine citizens fled from North Africa to European and Anatolian parts of the Empire. Red Sea admixture peaks in Arabia, AFAIK.

You are more Greek-like than average Turk.

But Western Turks are probably similar to you. Turks from Central Anatolia (far away from coastal areas, where Greek colonies historically existed) and Eastern Anatolia will be different.

----------


## Boreas

> Boreas,


Thanks to spend your time for me  :Grin: 




> Your results suggest that a lot of your ancestors were Turkicized Greeks (or rather Rhomaioi, Greek-speaking Romans, as they called themselves at that time). This isn't surprising for a Western Turk.


It would be great, if I saw some Greeks result. 





> You are from Istanbul which used to be called Constantinople for much of its history (and Byzantium even earlier).


Being from Istanbul, doesn't mean anything. In here, when someone told me he was from Istanbul, I am asking second time to them and most of time their father or grand father were the first person in the city. I met really a few native İstanbul people. 

The city which has biggest Kurdish population is Istanbul 
or
The largest population group in Istanbul is people from Sivas(nearly begining of West Armenia)

so using Istanbul is not a true act for genetic case. 





> Seljuk Turks who invaded Anatolia in the Middle Ages were probably similar to modern Turkmens (that is where most of Seljuk forces came from, IIRC). So I think that your second result (73% Greek + 27% Turkmen) is rather accurate.


Family tree DNA found Armenian relatives in basic MtDna resarch(H1v1) and my mom ancestery is partly from Greek island Lesbos so maybe tests are mixing anatolian-armenian and real greek genetics.





> IMO this makes perfect sense for someone with a lot of Medieval Greek ancestry from Byzantine times. Greeks usually score some Baltic and Siberian,


About Siberia, I am a siberian as much as Turkmen not even Turk. I can't explain it with Byzantine or Greek 




> You are more Greek-like than average Turk.


For average, yes it seems like that.

----------


## srdceleva

Screenshot_2016-09-21-15-36-09.jpg
My father's results for a full Slovak
Screenshot_2016-09-21-01-16-46.jpg
My results, 3/4 Slovak 1/4 American
Screenshot_2016-09-21-16-43-30.jpg
My brothers results 3/4 Slovak 1/4 american

----------


## srdceleva

> By comparison here is an Austrian guy native to Lavanttal:


Amazing to see how Slavic an Austrian guy is. Not too suprising though when we consider he's from Corinthia and a massive amount of the Austrians there have slovenian origin. I know a girl from Corinthia who doesnt speak slovenian and all of her grandparents are Corinthian but she told me three of them were full slovenian as the whole region used to be historically slovenian, very interesting results

----------


## Dibran

I am Albanian.

Mine was pretty basic. 

West Eurasian 100%	
Balkan 95%
Sardinian 5.3%

Balkan

Includes: Albanian in Albania; Bulgarian in Bulgaria and Greek in (2 sites) Greece
Does not include: Egyptian in (2 sites) Egypt; Belarusian in Belarus; Italian/EastSicilian, Italian/Bergamo and Toscani in (Bergamo and 2 other sites) Italy; Lithuanian in Lithuania; Ashkenazi Jew in Poland; Turkish in (Aydin, Balikesir and Istanbul) Turkey; Ukrainian in (East) Ukraine and Ashkenazi Jew from East Europe especially Lithuania (expat in Baltimore MD)
Sardinian

Includes: Sardinian in (Sardinia) Italy
Does not include: Algerian in Algeria; Tunisian in Tunisia; Basque/French in France; Italian/WestSicilian, Italian/Bergamo, Italian/Tuscan and Toscani in (Bergamo, Tuscany and 2 other sites) Italy; Ashkenazi Jew in Poland and Ashkenazi Jew from East Europe especially Lithuania (expat in Baltimore MD)

----------


## Tomenable

> Well, being a mix is sucks

----------


## Boreas

> 


 :Grin:  :Laughing:  :Grin:  :Laughing: 

I can't belive that you have spent your time to find this video  :Good Job:  

I guess my position is something like that

----------


## Hauteville

> West Eurasian 100%
> South European 50%
> Balkan 39%
> 
> South/Central European 11%
> 
> North Slavic 31%
> 
> Ashkenazi/Levantine 14%
> ...


First bulgarian DNA Land I see, are you close to bulgarian average in GEDmatch?

----------


## Zionas

*
100% East Asian
-88% Central Chinese
-5.9% SE Asian
-4.0% Japanese/Korean
-1.9% Other East Asian (possibly Turkic)



*

----------


## Zionas

*McDonald Analysis:
*Most likely fit is 80.3% (+- 14.2%) E. Asia (all S. Han Chinese)
and 19.7% (+- 14.2%) E. Asia (various subcontinents)
which is 100% total E. Asia


The following are possible population sets and their fractions,
most likely at the top
South_Han= 0.780 Mongolian= 0.220 or
South_Han= 0.525 North_Han= 0.475 or
South_Han= 0.932 Yakut= 0.068 or
South_Han= 0.758 Tu= 0.242 or
South_Han= 0.914 Buryat= 0.086 or
South_Han= 0.910 Mongola_Ch= 0.090
There clearly is nothing not from East Asia.


A custom fit to only that and Siberia gives
Tujia 0.7771 Tu 0.2229
North_Han 0.5352 Miao 0.4648
She 0.6212 Tu 0.3788
North_Han 0.3715 Tujia 0.6285
South_Han 0.5685 Yi 0.4315
South_Han 0.5948 Naxi 0.4052
all of which are perfect fits, so any or any average of rows, or any similar ethinc groupos will do.
YOU are from automated fit
South_Han= 0.823 Tu= 0.177
South_Han= 0.676 North_Han= 0.324
South_Han= 0.852 Mongolian= 0.148
South_Han= 0.936 Mongola_Ch= 0.064
South_Han= 0.948 Altai= 0.052
South_Han= 0.941 Buryat= 0.059
South_Han= 0.954 Yakut= 0.046
South_Han= 0.967 Chukchi= 0.033
South_Han= 0.793 Japanese= 0.207

or from the same custom fit
Tujia 0.9775 Chukchi 0.0225
Tujia 0.9786 Nganassan 0.0214
South_Han 0.7468 Yi 0.2532
South_Han 0.7638 Naxi 0.2362
Hezhen 0.1401 Miao 0.8599
Miao 0.8214 Xibo 0.1786
Daur 0.1374 Miao 0.8626
Tujia 0.9732 Dolgan 0.0268
Tujia 0.9729 Evenk 0.0271
Oroqen 0.0459 Tujia 0.9541
Miao 0.8000 Mongolian 0.2000
Tujia 0.9676 Tuva 0.0324
North_Han 0.3441 Miao 0.6559
Tujia 0.9734 Yakut 0.0266
Tujia 0.9784 Ket 0.0216
Tujia 0.9664 Buryat 0.0336
Hezhen 0.0556 Tujia 0.9444
Tujia 0.9826 Koryak 0.0174
Tujia 0.9799 Selkup 0.0201
Daur 0.0538 Tujia 0.9462
Tujia 0.9648 Mongola_Chi 0.0352
Tujia 0.9710 Altai 0.0290


all of which are perfect fits. You should look on the Web to see what tribes
we use in our fits are “appropriate” to you. Your chromosome plot is identical to the one I send.

----------


## Zionas

*Dodecad K7b
East Asian-83.87
Siberian-14.93
South Asian-0.46
Atlantic-Baltic-0.37
West Asian-0.24
Southern-0.12

3/4 southwestern (Chongqing), 14 northwestern (Xi'an).
*

----------


## DuPidh

> Screenshot_2016-09-21-15-36-09.jpg
> My father's results for a full Slovak
> Screenshot_2016-09-21-01-16-46.jpg
> My results, 3/4 Slovak 1/4 American
> Screenshot_2016-09-21-16-43-30.jpg
> My brothers results 3/4 Slovak 1/4 american


 what do you mean by american, native american?

----------


## DuPidh

> I hope you're ********. Such an odd mix of ethnicities to distrust. As for your weird obsession with Chinese cultiure, I've seen this bizarre glorification of Asian cultures quite frequently. The Chinese are also known for copying things from other nations and just reproducing them well, so I find your sentiment quite amusing.


I too found very naive his posting. He could also be a provocateur! Asian cultures at modern times are simply an extension of Western cultures. I understand, Asian cultures can learn from the west science and technology, but I expect them not to extend that learning, to cultural things like art and architecture, fashion, music. They have to express themselves not to simply copy from the west. They do have talented people but their people are trained in the west and bringing westernization to East.

----------


## KaiserT

*WEST EURASIAN - 100%*

 CENTRAL ASIAN - 73%
- Indus Valley - 66%
- Indo-Iranian - 7%

SOUTH ASIAN - 21%
- North Indian - 17%
- South Indian - 4%

CAUCASUS-ANATOLIA - 6%

----------


## Northener

My results: 

West Eurasian 100% 
Northwest European 92%
Finnish 5%
Mediterranean Islander 1.9%
Ambiguous 1.1%


I can place NW European (with such a result it would be kind of weird if i couldn't ;) and the Mediterranean Islander (guess the result of Spanish soldier during a raid in 1586), but can't place the Finnish component where does it stand for? And the ambiguous? Someone a clue?

----------


## Ukko

> My results: 
> 
> West Eurasian 100% 
> Northwest European 92%
> Finnish 5%
> Mediterranean Islander 1.9%
> Ambiguous 1.1%
> 
> 
> I can place NW European (with such a result it would be kind of weird if i couldn't ;) and the Mediterranean Islander (guess the result of Spanish soldier during a raid in 1586), but can't place the Finnish component where does it stand for? And the ambiguous? Someone a clue?


Northern Germanics often get "Finnish" in this test, it is shared ancestry.

----------


## Northener

> Northern Germanics often get "Finnish" in this test, it is shared ancestry.


Ok, I'am curious which shared ancestry is at stake!

----------


## Tomenable

> Ok, I'am curious which shared ancestry is at stake!


From Scandinavia probably.

----------


## Northener

> From Scandinavia probably.


My question was more aimed to detect if it could be some kind of HG or....

----------


## Boreas

> *WEST EURASIAN - 100%*
> 
> CENTRAL ASIAN - 73%
> - Indus Valley - 66%
> - Indo-Iranian - 7%
> 
> SOUTH ASIAN - 21%
> - North Indian - 17%
> - South Indian - 4%
> ...


Indus Valley is Central Asia !!!

----------


## srdceleva

> what do you mean by american, native american?


I mean white American. Would take me forever to list out every european ethnicity that makes up that quarter...

----------


## NightBird

Hi. I'm waiting for my results but I ran my sons' tests through DNA Land after seeing this thread. Could someone clarify a couple things please?

"South/Central Europe - Italian/Bergamo, Italian/Tuscan and Toscani" - Is this specific to the Lombardy/Tuscany regions or does it include all of Northern Italy and perhaps Germany, Northern France, and related countries? And what about Southern Italy?

"Northwest Europe" includes Scottish, British, Norwegian and a couple others. I'm assuming this would not include the western coast of Ireland since that area was untouched by Viking invaders. Am I correct? And it mentioned France is not to be included with Northwest Europe but what about areas like Normandy, Lorraine, and Alsace?

Thanks so much.

----------


## NightBird

Hi. I'm waiting for my results but I ran my sons' tests through DNA Land after seeing this thread. Could someone clarify a couple things please?

"South/Central Europe - Italian/Bergamo, Italian/Tuscan and Toscani" - Is this specific to the Lombardy/Tuscany regions or does it include all of Northern Italy and perhaps Germany, Northern France, and related countries? And what about Southern Italy?

"Northwest Europe" includes Scottish, British, Norwegian and a couple others. I'm assuming this would not include the western coast of Ireland since that area was untouched by Viking invaders. Am I correct? And it mentioned France is not to be included with Northwest Europe but what about areas like Normandy, Lorraine, and Alsace?

Thanks so much.

----------


## Valerius

52% Balkan
24% North Slavic
24% Mediterranean Islander

----------


## New Englander

*100% West Eurasian*

*South Europe: 37%*
Balkan:22%
SC Euro: 16%
*Ashkenazim 28%*
Ashkenazim: 21%
Ambigouse: 7%
*NW European: 10%*
*Indo-European: 9.4%*
*SW Europe: 6.7%*
Ambiguous: 6.7%
*Indo-Iranian: 4.2%*
*Arab/Egyptian: 3.8%*

----------


## kingjohn

West Eurasian 100%
South European 37%
South/Central European 29%
Balkan 7.5%
Ashkenazi/Levantine 30%
Ashkenazi 29%
Mediterranean Islander 1%
Indo-Iranian 9.1%
Arab/Egyptian 8.3%
Central Indoeuropean 7.7%
Southwestern European 7.5%
Southwestern European 6.2%
Sardinian 1.2%

this is my results ..... :)
regards
Adam

----------


## Hauteville

People with Jews (non Ashkenazi) ancestors do often score Indo-Iranian admix...

----------


## kingjohn

indid :)
best regards
adam 

p.s 
they just dont have *mizrachi* or *sefhardi jewish* _refrences_ 
any way the eastern communities pick those_ iranian allells_ in *iran/iraq* before the islam came 
to the area because later the communities were isolated from muslims communities
i also score *6% central asia* {*refrence afghanistan pashtun*} in ftdna my origins map

----------


## TaeZStkyoht

West Eurasian 100%
Ashkenazi/Levantine 42%
Mediterranean Islander 40%

Ashkenazi 1.2%

Central Indoeuropean 37%

Central Asian 20%
Mid-Turkic 7.7%

Indo-Iranian 6.3%

Indus Valley 6.2%

South/Central European 1.2%

----------


## brianco

Northwest European 82%

North Slavic 9%

South/Central European 3.4%

Ambiguous 3.1%

Sardinian 2.6%






> West Eurasian 100%
> Northwest European 77%
> 
> North Slavic 8.6%
> 
> South/Central European 7.4%
> 
> Ambiguous 6.6%
> 
> ...


I am similar, all UK that is known. Probably similar farther back in time :)

----------


## susembe

well, i am not european but in case you were wondering, here is a turk's results from Dna land
West Eurasian 97%
Central Indoeuropean 62%

Mediterranean Islander 27%

Central Asian 7.2%
Indo-Iranian 5.2%

Kalash 2%

Ambiguous 1.5%

East Asian 2.9%
Central Chinese 1.6%

Siberian 1.3%

----------


## susembe

well, you obviously do not represent anatolian turkish population. Are your parents greece immigrants from balkans or thessaloniki that migrated to annatolia during 1920s? Or maybe a tatar family from balkans?

----------


## susembe

> Indus Valley is Central Asia !!!


well, you obviously do not represent anatolian turkish population. Are your parents greece immigrants from balkans or thessaloniki that migrated to annatolia during 1920s? Or maybe a tatar family from balkans?

----------


## LeBrok

> well, i am not european but in case you were wondering, here is a turk's results from Dna land
> West Eurasian 97%
> Central Indoeuropean 62%
> 
> Mediterranean Islander 27%
> 
> Central Asian 7.2%
> Indo-Iranian 5.2%
> 
> ...


Hi susembe, can you post your Harappa results in this thread below, please:
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...d-contemporary

----------


## Boreas

> well, you obviously do not represent anatolian turkish population. Are your parents greece immigrants from balkans or thessaloniki that migrated to annatolia during 1920s? Or maybe a tatar family from balkans?


I guess you mixed me with "TaeZStkyoht". That guy has Mediterranean Islander structure as much as Maltese  :Shocked:  :Shocked:  :Shocked:

----------


## LeBrok

> I guess you mixed me with "TaeZStkyoht". That guy has Mediterranean Islander structure as much as Maltese


want to donate your DNA to Harappa?
http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...d-contemporary

----------


## Boreas

> want to donate your DNA to Harappa?
> http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...d-contemporary


I have already done it. Check 29-09-16, 20:23

1 Caucasian 29.17
2 NE-Euro 21.96
3 Mediterranean 18.64
4 Baloch 11.05
5 SW-Asian 6.72
6 Siberian 5.56
7 S-Indian 2.78
8 NE-Asian  2.78

See I am obviously Central Asian, I belong to Central Asian Steppes, I am the one who will be defended by might pure blood Kurd nation and send it again there.  :Grin:  :Laughing:  :Grin:

----------


## LeBrok

> I have already done it. Check 29-09-16, 20:23
> 
> 1 Caucasian 29.17
> 2 NE-Euro 21.96
> 3 Mediterranean 18.64
> 4 Baloch 11.05
> 5 SW-Asian 6.72
> 6 Siberian 5.56
> 7 S-Indian 2.78
> ...


Hey, you are the only one I have from Turkey, so you fit Turkey perfectly. :) What part of Turkey roughly are you from? 
I'm missing over 1% of your admixtures, what are you hiding? ;)

----------


## Goga

The point is that Turks are very mixed people. They are not homogeneous. EVERY 'Turk' has a different auDNA. One Turk has Greek roots, other Turk has Arab roots, etc.

From Population Spreadsheet for HarappaWorld.


Population
S-Indian
Baloch
Caucasian
NE-Euro
SE-Asian
Siberian
NE-Asian
Papuan
American
Beringian
Mediterranean
SW-Asian
San
E-African
Pygmy
W-African

turk
1.00
15.71
46.74
8.90
0.33
3.66
2.36
0.29
0.52
0.67
9.83
9.72
0.07
0.11
0.04
0.07

turk-aydin
0.86
11.66
38.15
14.31
0.35
6.04
3.98
0.46
0.48
0.68
13.63
8.64
0.09
0.25
0.02
0.40

turk-istanbul
1.13
15.51
45.12
10.68
0.53
3.04
3.09
0.38
0.21
0.71
10.66
8.72
0.05
0.11
0.05
0.01

turk-kayseri
0.82
15.41
45.47
8.48
0.69
3.55
2.30
0.41
0.34
0.79
11.13
10.48
0.03
0.05
0.02
0.03

turkish
2.08
18.93
43.22
6.33
0.46
2.67
1.88
1.27
0.72
0.84
9.29
11.36
0.59
0.17
0.18
0.00

----------


## Boreas

> The point is that Turks are very mixed people. They are not homogeneous. EVERY 'Turk' has a different auDNA. One Turk has Greek roots, other Turk has Arab roots, etc.
> 
> From Population Spreadsheet for HarappaWorld.


I like you, when you become rational such as this time.  :Heart: 

But also same you told that

_"No matter what Kurds are defeating and will defeat Turks big time. Kurds will sent Turks back to Cnetral Asia." 

_I didn't write different things then you saidPlease check my results and sent me where I am belong. Just end my suffer  :Grin:

----------


## Goga

> I like you, when you become rational such as this time. 
> 
> But also same you told that
> 
> _"No matter what Kurds are defeating and will defeat Turks big time. Kurds will sent Turks back to Cnetral Asia." 
> 
> _I didn't write different things then you saidPlease check my results and sent me where I am belong. Just end my suffer


Some Turks will be send back to Central Asia/Altai, some will stay in the Western Turkey. People like you will go back to Europe/ the Balkans  :Grin: .

----------


## LeBrok

> The point is that Turks are very mixed people. They are not homogeneous. EVERY 'Turk' has a different auDNA. One Turk has Greek roots, other Turk has Arab roots, etc.
> 
> From Population Spreadsheet for HarappaWorld.
> 
> 
> Population
> S-Indian
> Baloch
> Caucasian
> ...


Hey Goga, where do you get these tables from?

----------


## Goga

From GEDmatch.com. When you see your own results you can click on the same page on 'Spreadsheet'. And you will get results of all known populations, from South Amer, Africa to Japan.

----------


## Goga

tables deleted

----------


## LeBrok

Thanks, I managed to miss that. I thought you have these compiled by someone on some website.
I found this table too but it looks like many European ethnicities are missing.

----------


## Pax Augusta

> Hey Goga, where do you get these tables from?


From the GedMatch version of this.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...dd4/edit#gid=0

----------


## Goga

> From the GedMatch version of this.
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...dd4/edit#gid=0


Thanks, I'm now going to delete all those tables posted by me. They hurt my eyes

----------


## Sile

> The point is that Turks are very mixed people. They are not homogeneous. EVERY 'Turk' has a different auDNA. One Turk has Greek roots, other Turk has Arab roots, etc.
> 
> From Population Spreadsheet for HarappaWorld.
> 
> 
> Population
> S-Indian
> Baloch
> Caucasian
> ...


We all know that the Turks have been in modern Turkey for only 1000years ................clearly we cannot get a clear admixture on them since we do not know exactly the admixture of the anatolians where before the Turks arrived

----------


## Goga

> We all know that the Turks have been in modern Turkey for only 1000years ................clearly we cannot get a clear admixture on them since we do not know exactly the admixture of the anatolians where before the Turks arrived


Turks, Jews, Arabs (Levant), Northern Semites like Assyrians are the most mixed people in the Middle East. Even people of the northern Caucasus are very mixed, mixed with the Turks, Russians, Iranians etc.

As far as I know we have already ancient samples from the Western (near Greece) & Eastern (ancient Armenia) Anatolia, and from the western parts of the Zagros Mountains (Eastern Kurdistan, ancient Iranians). 



The purest people of the Mddle East have to be the Kurds and maybe Arabs (Bedouin) from Saudi Arabia. Gulf Arabs are also mixed and have also some ancient Iranic DNA. And even Bedoiun tribes from Arabia have for about 10-20% of the Black African ancestry. Besides a gene flow from Africa into Arabia there could be 2 reasons why there is so much Black African ancestry among the Arabs. Maybe from the ancient roots of the proto-Semites or from the Black Slaves, maybe from both

----------


## Goga

It has been said that the URHEIMAT of the Arabs is Yemen. Proto-Arabs came from Yemen.

Population
S-Indian
Baloch
Caucasian
NE-Euro
SE-Asian
Siberian
NE-Asian
Papuan
American
Beringian
Mediterranean
SW-Asian
San
E-African
Pygmy
W-African

yemenese
*2.44*
*7.85*
*26.76*
0.93
0.46
0.24
0.21
0.43
0.28
0.55
5.40
35.59
*0.33*
*8.24*
*1.44*
*8.85*




You see:

0.33 + 8.24 + 8.85 + 1.44 = *18.86*% of African ancestry, part of proto-Semites + African gene flow
2.44 + 7.85 + 26.76 = *37.05*% Iranian ancestry, either from the ancient NorthWest Asian farmers or maybe from the Medes & Persians.

----------


## LeBrok

> It has been said that the URHEIMAT of the Arabs is Yemen. Proto-Arabs came from Yemen.
> 
> Population
> S-Indian
> Baloch
> Caucasian
> NE-Euro
> SE-Asian
> Siberian
> ...


The proportions are skewed for Iranian Farmer. It looks more like Anatolian-Armenian Chalcolithic. It would even explain 5% Med in Yemen, and NE Euro.
Anatolian Chalcolithic

Iranian Neolithic 10,000 years


Population


Population


S-Indian
-

S-Indian
 6.13

Baloch
9.14

Baloch
 62.71

Caucasian
48.14

Caucasian
 24.97

NE-Euro
6.45

NE-Euro
 -

SE-Asian
-

SE-Asian
 -

Siberian
0.16

Siberian
 -

NE-Asian
-

NE-Asian
 -

Papuan
-

Papuan
 0.35

American
-

American
 -

Beringian
-

Beringian
 -

Mediterranean
26.7

Mediterranean
 -

SW-Asian
9.27

SW-Asian
 3.88

San
-

San
 0.18

E-African
-

E-African
 -

Pygmy
-

Pygmy
 -

W-African
0.13

W-African
 1.78

----------


## Goga

> It has been said that the URHEIMAT of the Arabs is Yemen. Proto-Arabs came from Yemen.
> 
> Population
> S-Indian
> Baloch
> Caucasian
> NE-Euro
> SE-Asian
> Siberian
> ...


vs. Kurds

I take '2 Kurd', because N=24 (highest pop sample)

Population
S-Indian
Baloch
Caucasian
NE-Euro
SE-Asian
Siberian
NE-Asian
Papuan
American
Beringian
Mediterranean
SW-Asian
San
E-African
Pygmy
W-African

1 kurd
3.01
25.64
41.13
4.69
0.43
1.29
0.58
0.81
0.62
0.87
6.38
13.37
0.38
0.55
0.24
0.00

*2 kurd*
*0.75*
*27.90*
*44.12*
*4.87*
0.30
0.57
0.28
0.39
0.75
0.51
4.86
13.94
*0.12*
*0.32*
*0.13*
*0.19*

3 kurd
1.56
26.52
45.34
5.55
0.32
0.49
0.58
0.38
0.38
0.19
5.67
12.81
0.09
0.05
0.07
0.00



0.12 + 0.32 + 0.13 + 0.19 = *0.76*% of African ancestry, I guess gene flow from Southern Mesopotamia & Levant
0.75 + 27.90 + 44.12 = *72.77*% of Iranian (Aryan) ancestry.

4.87% + some Mediterranean could be from the ancient Greeks (SouthEast Europe & Western Anatolia)


I didn't count SW-Asian + Mediterranean. I do consider it 'ambiguous' because it could be part of many races, from the ancient Anatolian farmers, Mesopotamians to modern Arabs. Although ancient Medes & Persians had also as much SW-Asian + Mediterranean as modern Kurds.

----------


## Goga

> The proportions are skewed for Iranian Farmer. It looks more like Anatolian-Armenian Chalcolithic. It would even explain 5% Med in Yemen, and NE Euro.


I'm not talking about the Iranians from 10,000 years, but about the Iranians from 6,000 years ago, *from the Sumerian famer era*. There is a lot of 'Baloch' + 'S-Indian' component among the Arabs, even MORE than among the Anatolian Chalcolithic

Med & NE Euro in Yemen can be from the Levant or directly from the ancient Greeks.

----------


## DNZ

West Eurasian 100%
South European 51%
Balkan 44%

South/Central European 6.1%

North Slavic 25%

Central Indoeuropean 14%

Central Asian 6%
Kalash 2.5%

Mid-Turkic 2.2%

Indo-Iranian 1.3%

Southwestern European 2.1%

Ambiguous 2.1%

----------


## brg12007

maybe someone can help me make heads or tails of this report


West Eurasian 100%
Mediterranean Islander 36%

Northwest European 24%

North Slavic 20%

South/Central European 19%

Ambiguous 1.1%




all four of my grandparents were born well within the borders of macedonia today, I would venture to guess that my great grandparents were also born in those same towns, as the majority of my ancestry comes from people who kept livestock, suggesting to me that they stayed put where they were. 

The north european figure seems especially high to me, on ancestry.com my report suggested I had 2% irish ancestry, with 1% west europe, and the remaining bulk of my ancestry was shown to be split between "Italy/Greece" and "Eastern Europe" but here it says it's close to a quarter of my makeup. And then I'm a bit surprised at Med Islander, as Macedonia is a landlocked place, and I would have thought some kind of Balkan admixture would show up before cyprus, as my family has lived in the balkans likely for thousands of years? Finally a finnish/caucasian/west asian and jewish influence (about 10-15%) that has flashed consistently enough on other reports seems absent here, does that mean it's likely just noise on the other tests?
Curious to hear anyones take on this, thanks! Appreciate any help!

----------


## Boreas

> We all know that the Turks have been in modern Turkey for only 1000years .......


Khazar invasian in Armenia (Mostly East Anatolia), in 630.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chorpan_Tarkhan 

East Roman Empire whose mother is Hazar princes.
http://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/IV._Leo_Hazar (750-780)

----------


## Sile

> Khazar invasian in Armenia (Mostly East Anatolia), in 630.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chorpan_Tarkhan 
> 
> East Roman Empire whose mother is Hazar princes.
> http://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/IV._Leo_Hazar (750-780)


Invasion of an area and settlement of an area are 2 different concepts

----------


## bix

West Eurasian 98%
Northwest European 76%

Mediterranean Islander 8.1%

Finnish 7.5%

Southwestern European 6.2%
Southwestern European 3.7%

Sardinian 2.4%

Siberian 1.9%



I can only guess what the Finn and Siberian are about, the rest isn't surprising.

----------


## Boreas

> Invasion of an area and settlement of an area are 2 different concepts


I don't think that they just came and ate all crops and went back like a grasshopper.

During the all invasion, there is also genes transfer.

----------


## cylnlts

BLOGHELPSettingsLOG OUT
 *DNA.LAND - Ancestry*  
*Ancestry Report for Çaylan Ulutaş*ancestry questions? 

Ancestry Composition
Çaylan
Ulutaş 






















West Eurasian 96%
Central Indoeuropean 54%

Balkan 18%

Mediterranean Islander 17%

Indo-Iranian 4.1%

Ambiguous 1.7%

Arab/Egyptian 1.3%

Japanese/Korean 2.6%

Native American 1.2%






Ancestry Map


Colors: Same as Above Greyscale: Indicating Percentage Both at Once

----------


## tahir0010

Turk, Bosnian, Iraq, and Greece

----------


## DNZ

Father

Mother

----------


## clarbg

Me:


West Eurasian 97%
Northwest European 80%

Southwestern European 12%

North Slavic 2.7%

South/Central European 2.3%

Tubalar 2.7%




I believe "Tubalar" is Northeast Asian

Mum: 


West Eurasian 100%
Northwest European 76%

Southwestern European 10%

Northeast European 8.7%
Finnish 6.4%

North Slavic 2.2%

South European 3.5%
Balkan 1.8%

South/Central European 1.7%

Ashkenazi/Levantine 1.2%
Ambiguous 1.2%

----------


## DNZ

İnteresting admixture.East Turkic-Altai component.Some Turks and Tatars score it.I don't even have any.Coming from your father side.:)And Your mother's side have finnish.How is your gedmatch results?Probably,You score some East Asian and Siberian.

----------


## clarbg

I do get a little bit of "Mongoloid" on some Gedmatch calcultors, mostly southeast Asian or Native American, interestingly very little Siberian. I don't know where that comes from lol. I'm mostly Scottish/English + some German on my mum's side.

MDLP


*Population*
*Percent*

1
European_Hunters_Gatherers
35.38

2
European_Early_Farmers
31.39

3
Caucasian
17.84

4
South_Central_Asian
8.88

5
Ancestral_Altaic
3.29

6
North_African
0.99

7
South_East_Asian
0.95

8
Melano_Polynesian
0.89

9
Amerindian
0.39

10
South_Indian
0.01

----------


## MsJ

West Eurasian 100%
Northwest European 46%

Southwestern European 25%

Northeast European 23%
North Slavic 18%

Finnish 5.4%

South/Central European 4.1%

Ambiguous 1.1%

----------


## Dibran

Do they ever update their results?

I just got 95 percent Balkan and 5 percent Sardinian. 

I guess it's consistent though. I'm roughly 94 percent Balkan on 23. 

I wish Balkan results were more regionalized.

----------


## Apsurdistan

West Eurasian 100%
North Slavic 54%


South/Central European 31%

Balkan 12%

Central Indoeuropean 2.3%

Northwest European 1.7%



That's all it gave me... I don't know why it doesn't show other European regions 

So apparently I'm a lot more Belorussian and north Italian than Balkan? And I'm from Bosnia. Yeah that sounds about right...
And I'm more central Indoeuropean (whatever that is) than any kind of west European...

And the trait prediction:
It says i'm a night owl- True
It says my height should be 165cm- Bullshit I'm 179cm
Eye color brown- True
That I'm averagely neurotic- wrong I'd say I'm above average neurotic
That I drink coffee less than average- I don't know I thought I quite liked coffee, drink it about twice a day. 
Educational attainment: You have completed college! I finished 15.5 years of school and I score above average- Nope. Didn't go to college cuz I didn't like school or the people in it. But my parents and my sister did.

----------


## Aha

My data
Ukrainian, Kyiv

----------


## Tomohawk

Northwest European 78%
-----------------------------------------
South/Central European 8.5%
Balkan 2.8%
-----------------------------------------
Southwestern European 6.1%
-----------------------------------------
Finnish 1.7%
North Slavic 1.5%
-----------------------------------------
Kalash 1.3%

 :Good Job:

----------


## Butler

My DNA Land results 

An Irish paternal line Y-DNA haplogroup I-A427 sub of I-M223

West Eurasian 100%
Northwest European 92%

South/Central European 5.1%

Southwestern European 3.3%

----------


## kitbluee

Northwest Euro 94%
Includes: Scottish Argyll_Bute_GBR and British in England; Icelandic in Iceland; Norwegian in Norway and Orcadian in Orkney Islands

North Slavic 6%
Incudes: Belarusian in Belarus; Estonian in Estonia; Lithuanian in Lithuania; Mordovian and Russian in Russia and Ukrainian in (East) Ukraine

My original results gave me Irish/Scottish/Welsh, Finnish and Middle East.

There's a few main places that keep popping up on Gedmatch all the way to Central Russia. My mtdna is h2a2a1. 

I'm adopted and have no clue what I am  :Laughing:

----------


## March Hare

Northwest European 62%
North Slavic 29%
Finnish 2.1%
Sardinian 4.4%
South/Central European 2.7%

Has anyone matched for Orcadian, but not Icelandic or vice versa? This is the first time I've seen an ancestry test match me with Icelandic.

----------


## HaSofer

Easturope 42.2 %
North/Westeurope 33.5 %
Italian 23.1 %
Sardinian 1.2 %


Im confused about the Italian DNA. dont know from where.

----------


## Silesian

> Easturope 42.2 %
> North/Westeurope 33.5 %
> Italian 23.1 %
> Sardinian 1.2 %
> 
> 
> Im confused about the Italian DNA. dont know from where.


What branch of ydna- R1b and mtdna do you group with?

----------


## Sile

> Easturope 42.2 %
> North/Westeurope 33.5 %
> Italian 23.1 %
> Sardinian 1.2 %
> 
> 
> Im confused about the Italian DNA. dont know from where.


Where did you get this italian from as there is no Italian in DnaLand ...........I just rechecked all of my accounts there

----------


## mitty

I get:

West Eurasian 100%

Northwest European 85%

Northeast European 10% - Finnish 7.7%, North Slavic 2.7%

Southwestern European 2.4%, South/Central European 2.1%

----------


## HaSofer

> What branch of ydna- R1b and mtdna do you group with?


Im R-M269. I tested 111 Markers but not yet SNP-Testing. But im planning to do so.

----------


## HaSofer

> Where did you get this italian from as there is no Italian in DnaLand ...........I just rechecked all of my accounts there



Oh .. I didnt read "DNA-Land-Results".. I thought DNA Results in general. I tested my autosomal DNA by myheritage and my brother made a test at ftdna for haplogroup and autosomal dna.
Recently i discovered gedmatch.

----------


## HaSofer

I transfered my autosomal dna from myheritge to DNA Land and got these results:

North Slavic 37%
Finnish 4.8%
South/Central European 31%
Northwest European 25%
Sardinian 1.6%
Ambiguous 1.1%

as for my brother who tested at ftdna.. i transfered also his autosomal dna to DNA Land and these are the results:

North Slavic 16%
Finnish 11%
South/Central European 1.7%
Balkan 34%
Northwest European 37%

We have the same father and the same mother, we only tested at two different companies. why do we have so different DNA results?

----------


## galon07

> I transfered my autosomal dna from myheritge to DNA Land and got these results:
> 
> North Slavic 37%
> Finnish 4.8%
> South/Central European 31%
> Northwest European 25%
> Sardinian 1.6%
> Ambiguous 1.1%
> 
> ...


DNA companies "read" the data different in ways, as their population clusters differ from each other. In this case, I guess dna.land is showing some of the South/Central European as Balkan (or vice-versa), for example. This is why these results shouldn't be considered "precise", but only as guesses that point to a certain direction. There's also the fact that each person (even siblings) may inherit genes from their parents "differently". So it would be normal to have a brother with more "North Slavic" than the other, for example (though I think that in terms of autosomal it's really more related to the way that calculators read it).

----------


## galon07

The results:

Attachment 10390

----------


## HaSofer

> DNA companies "read" the data different in ways, as their population clusters differ from each other. In this case, I guess dna.land is showing some of the South/Central European as Balkan (or vice-versa), for example. This is why these results shouldn't be considered "precise", but only as guesses that point to a certain direction. There's also the fact that each person (even siblings) may inherit genes from their parents "differently". So it would be normal to have a brother with more "North Slavic" than the other, for example (though I think that in terms of autosomal it's really more related to the way that calculators read it).


thank you for the explanation. so the southern european dna could be basicly anything in the mediterranean? on certain calculators on gedmatch this part of my dna is identified as jewish and on other calculators greek, armenian or italian. is there a way to see with certainty if its either italien or jewish dna?

----------


## Salento

@ HaSofer 
Go to Gedmatch > Eurogenes > Jtest > Oracle
Look for AJ and Italians.
If they are in your results whatever come first it’s the answer to your question. (Hopefully)

----------


## HaSofer

I get Italian, but on other calculators i get Spaniard, Jewish, Greek, Armenian, Turkish, Lebanese etc. so im confused, also because i dont know of Italian ancestry in our family. We know of German, Russian and Jewish ancestry. but i think this is not the right place for this topic?

i also get not even 5% ashkenazi. but more east and west mediterranean:

*#*
*Population*
*Percent*

1
SOUTH_BALTIC
21.46

2
NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO
19.33

3
ATLANTIC
18.63

4
EAST_EURO
13.62

5
WEST_MED
12.86

6
EAST_MED
9.08

7
ASHKENAZI
4.4

8
WEST_ASIAN
0.4

9
EAST_ASIAN
0.21

----------


## Salento

(For Europeans Only)
I read somewhere that in Eurogenes K13, if you get 6% or more Red Sea and you are European, chances are you are part Ashkenazy Jew. 
Below 6% Read Sea you are not.
I can’t find the Link, and I don’t now how reliable this is.

----------


## Angela

> (For Europeans Only)
> I read somewhere that in Eurogenes K13, if you get 6% or more Red Sea and you are European, chances are you are part Ashkenazy Jew. 
> Below 6% Read Sea you are not.
> I can’t find the Link, and I don’t now how reliable this is.


It's only reliable if you don't think Euro K13 is a travesty and should be removed from gedmatch.

That's a little convoluted, isn't it, but I'm sure you get my drift. 

If anyone wants to know if they are Ashkenazi they should go to 23andme.com and test. As for Sephardic, you're out of luck unless you have a paper trail, unfortunately. We had a relatively sizeable Jewish community in my mother's area hailing from Spain, including one highly regarded Rabbinical family, who left an imprint on some of our foods, for instance, and I've always wondered if any of the men were less than godly and ditto for some of the servant girls. Of course, the overall impact on the genomes of the area would be non-existent, but in a family line or two it might have had an impact. No way to know, unfortunately, unless someone has slightly odd results for the area.

See:
https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org...h-history-tour

"Eighteenth-century rabbis from Turin were Joshua Colon, Isaac Formiggini, Abraham Sanson b. Jacob ha-Levi Fubini, Michael Solomon Jonah, *Gabriel Pontremoli*, Jacob b. Joshua Benzion Segre, Abraham b. Jehuda Segre, and Daniel Valabrega.

"Professor Aldo Pontremoli, head of the department of physics at the University of Milan, was in charge of meteorological research in the 1928 Italian expedition to the North Pole, an expedition which cost him his life.

Painter Raffaello Pontremoli, another member of this talented family.

There are numerous other secular scholars and rabbis in the Pontremoli line. Some of them intermarried with the Luzzatti family, and so are descended from the Jewish Italian prime minister.

https://translate.google.it/translate?hl=en&sl=it&u=https://www7.tau.ac.il/omeka/italjuda/items/show/792&prev=search


The branch which relocated to Thessalonica virtually all perished at the hands of the Nazis.

These are Jewish students at a liceo in Milano before the German invasion. There's an Emma Pontremoli among them.

[IMG][/IMG]

----------


## Silesian

> I get Italian, but on other calculators i get Spaniard, Jewish, Greek, Armenian, Turkish, Lebanese etc. so im confused, also because i dont know of Italian ancestry in our family. We know of German, Russian and Jewish ancestry. but i think this is not the right place for this topic?
> 
> i also get not even 5% ashkenazi. but more east and west mediterranean:
> 
> *#*
> *Population*
> *Percent*
> 
> 1
> ...


It will be interesting to see your ydna line[Western or Eastern R1b- if it is related to the tribes that sculptured these burial markers.

*Kernosovsky Idol*https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A...B4%D0%BE%D0%BB

----------


## Salento

@Angela 
I was using the Rule of Thumb..
In the same way the % Ratio of South/East Europe vs South/West Europe could determines Iberian, Italian, and Greek shifted ancestry.

----------


## Angela

> @Angela 
> I was using the Rule of Thumb..
> In the same way the % Ratio of South/East Europe vs South/West Europe could determines Iberian, Italian, and Greek shifted ancestry.


I don't see how that would be a very accurate way of determining Ashkenazi ancestry. It might just be a higher percentage of "east Med" than in other Europeans which could have arrived at numerous periods in history.

It certainly didn't come from Ashkenazi Jews. Ashkenazim are a bottlenecked population which didn't form until at the earliest around 1000 AD, and they formed in Central Europe and/or Eastern Europe. They have nothing to do with Italians. There's no situation where they could have impacted the genomes of Italians. You'd be more likely to find some of their ancestry in Eastern Europe than in Italy. The impact of Italian ancestry on the Ashkenazim is a different story.

----------


## Salento

> I don't see how that would be a very accurate way of determining Ashkenazi ancestry. It might just be a higher percentage of "east Med" than in other Europeans which could have arrived at numerous periods in history.
> 
> It certainly didn't come from Ashkenazi Jews. Ashkenazim are a bottlenecked population which didn't form until at the earliest around 1000 AD, and they formed in Central Europe and/or Eastern Europe. They have nothing to do with Italians. There's no situation where they could have impacted the genomes of Italians. You'd be more likely to find some of their ancestry in Eastern Europe than in Italy. The impact of Italian ancestry on the Ashkenazim is a different story.


All of that is true, and I agree with you.
My last post wasn’t about establishing Ashkenazim. 
:)

----------


## davef

Actually reading the average k-13 scores for Ashkenazim, the Red Sea is pretty low, just under 6 percent. The strongest components are East Med followed by West Med. Imo eurogenes k36 and the j-test belong in the garbage

----------


## Salento

> Actually reading the average k-13 scores for Ashkenazim, the Red Sea is pretty low, just under 6 percent. The strongest components are East Med followed by West Med. Imo eurogenes k36 and the j-test belong in the garbage


The Goal is to establish some way to differentiate real AJ / fake AJ in the Oracles results of Europeans.
Read last sentence of Post #195

----------


## davef

23andme does that best. ^

----------


## HaSofer

What is strange to me is for example my dna in dodecad k7 compared to my brothers.

So although we have almost the same results, he gets way more Jewish while i get Italian instead.
I also dont know how reliable the dodecad k7 test is to get information about jewish dna.
For me as a newby it just shows that its aparently not so easy to seperate mediterranean people in regards to dna.

my results in dodecad k7:

*#*
*Population*
*Percent*

1
Atlantic_Baltic
71.58

2
Southern
15.06

3
West_Asian
11.62

4
Siberian
1.6

5
African
0.14



*Single Population Sharing:

#
Population (source)
Distance

1
Hungarians (Behar)
3.45

2
Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad)
3.76

3
German (Dodecad)
4.23

4
Cornwall (1000Genomes)
4.47

5
Kent (1000Genomes)
5.09

6
CEU30 (1000Genomes)
5.19

7
French (HGDP)
5.38

8
Dutch (Dodecad)
5.49

9
English (Dodecad)
5.5

10
French (Dodecad)
5.78

11
British (Dodecad)
6.81

12
British_Isles (Dodecad)
7.06

13
Irish (Dodecad)
7.16

14
Argyll (1000Genomes)
7.52

15
Orcadian (HGDP)
7.67

16
Ukranians (Yunusbayev)
8.14

17
Orkney (1000Genomes)
8.28

18
Mixed_Slav (Dodecad)
9.02

19
Polish (Dodecad)
10.39

20
Norwegian (Dodecad)
10.81



Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

#

Primary Population (source)
Secondary Population (source)
Distance

1

75.8%
Norwegian (Dodecad)
+
24.2%
C_Italian (Dodecad)
@
0.43

2

71.9%
Norwegian (Dodecad)
+
28.1%
Tuscan (HGDP)
@
0.43

3

65.3%
Ukranians (Yunusbayev)
+
34.7%
Valencia (1000Genomes)
@
0.44

4

67.8%
Ukranians (Yunusbayev)
+
32.2%
Aragon (1000Genomes)
@
0.48

5

71.8%
Norwegian (Dodecad)
+
28.2%
TSI30 (Metspalu)
@
0.53

6

82.7%
Norwegian (Dodecad)
+
17.3%
Sephardic_Jews (Behar)
@
0.53

7

70.3%
Norwegian (Dodecad)
+
29.7%
O_Italian (Dodecad)
@
0.54

8

80.1%
Norwegian (Dodecad)
+
19.9%
Ashkenazi (Dodecad)
@
0.59

9

65.9%
Ukranians (Yunusbayev)
+
34.1%
Cantabria (1000Genomes)
@
0.59

10

70.8%
French (HGDP)
+
29.2%
Russian (Dodecad)
@
0.6

11

79.6%
Norwegian (Dodecad)
+
20.4%
Sicilian (Dodecad)
@
0.61

12

79.2%
Norwegian (Dodecad)
+
20.8%
S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad)
@
0.61

13

62.9%
Ukranians (Yunusbayev)
+
37.1%
Cataluna (1000Genomes)
@
0.63

14

80.1%
Norwegian (Dodecad)
+
19.9%
Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar)
@
0.64

15

70.5%
French (HGDP)
+
29.5%
Russian_B (Behar)
@
0.66

16

82.7%
Norwegian (Dodecad)
+
17.3%
Morocco_Jews (Behar)
@
0.69

17

68.1%
Ukranians (Yunusbayev)
+
31.9%
Castilla_La_Mancha (1000Genomes)
@
0.7

18

62.8%
French (HGDP)
+
37.2%
Mixed_Slav (Dodecad)
@
0.72

19

68%
Ukranians (Yunusbayev)
+
32%
Spanish (Dodecad)
@
0.76

20

61.7%
Swedish (Dodecad)
+
38.3%
N_Italian (Dodecad)
@
0.79




*and my brothers results on dodecad k7:

*#*
*Population*
*Percent*

1
Atlantic_Baltic
68.25

2
Southern
15.21

3
West_Asian
13.99

4
Siberian
1.41

5
South_Asian
0.53

6
African
0.32

7
East_Asian
0.28



*Single Population Sharing:

#
Population (source)
Distance

1
Hungarians (Behar)
1.21

2
French (HGDP)
5.98

3
French (Dodecad)
6.56

4
Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad)
6.76

5
German (Dodecad)
7.09

6
Cornwall (1000Genomes)
7.77

7
Dutch (Dodecad)
8.1

8
CEU30 (1000Genomes)
8.26

9
Kent (1000Genomes)
8.42

10
English (Dodecad)
8.86

11
Ukranians (Yunusbayev)
9.43

12
British (Dodecad)
10.11

13
British_Isles (Dodecad)
10.32

14
Irish (Dodecad)
10.33

15
Argyll (1000Genomes)
10.38

16
Mixed_Slav (Dodecad)
10.56

17
Orcadian (HGDP)
10.78

18
Orkney (1000Genomes)
11.44

19
Polish (Dodecad)
12.66

20
Cataluna (1000Genomes)
13.51



Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

#

Primary Population (source)
Secondary Population (source)
Distance

1

73%
Swedish (Dodecad)
+
27%
Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar)
@
0.36

2

82.3%
Norwegian (Dodecad)
+
17.7%
Druze (HGDP)
@
0.4

3

81.7%
Norwegian (Dodecad)
+
18.3%
Lebanese (Behar)
@
0.43

4

73%
Swedish (Dodecad)
+
27%
Ashkenazi (Dodecad)
@
0.49

5

98.4%
Hungarians (Behar)
+
1.6%
Mozabite (HGDP)
@
0.51

6

83%
Swedish (Dodecad)
+
17%
Samaritians (Behar)
@
0.51

7

98.1%
Hungarians (Behar)
+
1.9%
Moroccan (Dodecad)
@
0.51

8

98.4%
Hungarians (Behar)
+
1.6%
Moroccans (Behar)
@
0.52

9

98.2%
Hungarians (Behar)
+
1.8%
Algerian (Dodecad)
@
0.53

10

72.4%
Swedish (Dodecad)
+
27.6%
Sicilian (Dodecad)
@
0.59

11

98.8%
Hungarians (Behar)
+
1.2%
Ethiopians (Behar)
@
0.6

12

98.8%
Hungarians (Behar)
+
1.2%
Ethiopian_Jews (Behar)
@
0.61

13

76.5%
Swedish (Dodecad)
+
23.5%
Sephardic_Jews (Behar)
@
0.61

14

95.7%
Hungarians (Behar)
+
4.3%
Canarias (1000Genomes)
@
0.61

15

71.8%
Swedish (Dodecad)
+
28.2%
S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad)
@
0.62

16

94.5%
Hungarians (Behar)
+
5.5%
Portuguese (Dodecad)
@
0.63

17

98.9%
Hungarians (Behar)
+
1.1%
Somali (Dodecad)
@
0.66

18

66.3%
Ukranians (Yunusbayev)
+
33.7%
North_Italian (HGDP)
@
0.67

19

63.7%
Mixed_Slav (Dodecad)
+
36.3%
North_Italian (HGDP)
@
0.67

20

51.9%
Norwegian (Dodecad)
+
48.1%
Romanians (Behar)
@
0.68


*

----------


## HaSofer

> It will be interesting to see your ydna line[Western or Eastern R1b- if it is related to the tribes that sculptured these burial markers.




Yes i ordered an snp test on ftdna. I heard that many Sefardim are in the R1B Haplogroup. Others say its a convert lineage.

----------


## Salento

> 23andme does that best. ^


Deleted. 
23andme Biz strategies and my Personal Actions, are not related to the quality of their Products.

----------


## Silesian

> Yes i ordered an snp test on ftdna. I heard that many Sefardim are in the R1B Haplogroup. Others say its a convert lineage.




With regard to the age of R1b to the North of Caucasus on the Steppe--
Here is *ph2ter latest G25 PCA*Eurasian detailed G25 PCA with moderns and ancients, group names only:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/s6hhnssodpqn9zu/G25.png?dl=0

You can see the distance between Ma_1>24k+/-[MA-1 is the only known example of Y-DNA R* (R-M207*) – that is, the only member of haplogroup R* that did not belong to haplogroups R1, R2 or secondary subclades of these. ] and Khvalynsk Enolithic5K+/-{R1b-L754+] 
Incredible that both Steppe samples of R+R1b[even after 24000+/- years]plot closer to Yamnaya-R1b-Z2103+ [-Samara/Afansievo/Karagesh] than the Hajji Firuz R1b sample[age to be carbon dated verified] from Iran-which also has a small component of percent of Northern Steppe admixture.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/s6hhnssodpqn9zu/G25.png?dl=0

----------


## Tomenable

> It certainly didn't come from Ashkenazi Jews. Ashkenazim are a bottlenecked population which didn't form until at the earliest around 1000 AD, and they formed in Central Europe and/or Eastern Europe.


The scholarly consensus is that they formed in the Rhineland, which is in Western Europe.

From there, they were gradually expelled to Central/Eastern Europe a few centuries later.

=====

*Edit:*

I mean the bottleneck was in the Rhineland. They could actually form even back in Italy.

----------


## KingKhalasi

idk, this is a pretty weird test. it gives me super off percentages XD

----------


## Jovnna

West Eurasian 100%
Northwest European 72%

Northeast European 17%
North Slavic 8.9%

Finnish 7.7%

South/Central European 6.2%

Southwestern European 5.4%



West Eurasian 100%
Northwest European 72%

Northeast European 17%
North Slavic 8.9%

Finnish 7.7%

South/Central European 6.2%

Southwestern European 5.4%

----------


## Jovnna

I did an autosomal DNA kit with AncestryDNA and they sent my results back which seems pretty normal the usual British, north west Europe and Irish but I uploaded my raw DNA to the following:

DNA.Land I got 7.7 % ancestry from Finland 
wegene 25% Finland/northwest Russia
gedmatch 4 to 8% Finland with saami swede

but Ancestry DNA says 0%

whats happening do I have Finnish DNA or not?
Focusing on Finland because it stood out on the other tests plus I don't have any clue who my granddad was. His name wasn't even put on my Dads birth certificate.

----------


## Jovnna

Sorry for just posting right in there Im going crazy now. Thanks for your time reading my post. J

----------


## hrvclv

Hi, Jovnna. Let me be clear from the outset : I am no geneticist, and often get just as confused by some results as you seem to be right now.

Here's what I think anyway... My hunch is that DNA Land use Finland as some proxy for some share of ancient European Hunter-Gatherer DNA that has remained comparatively unaltered in our genomes over the millenia - some "basal WHG", if you wish.

I am from central France, and get 5.1% Finnish in their breakdown.

My Portuguese son-in-law gets 8.8% Finnish !!

For both of us, something labelled "South Baltic" or even "Scandinavian" might make sense, with the Suebi ending up in Braga, and the Burgundians and Wisigoths settling my own area. But Finnish ?? It hardly makes any sense, either historically or genealogically. So it has to be understood otherwise, "prehistorically", no doubt.

Just hypotheses. I'll be glad if someone knows better, and explains.

----------


## kirrun

Hei Jovnna!

My advise: Make account to MyHeritage, no need to buy from there new test, you may upload your Ancestry raw data there and soon you'll see whom you share your genes. So did i and got a lot of Finnish relatives. Try!

----------


## Angela

> Hi, Jovnna. Let me be clear from the outset : I am no geneticist, and often get just as confused by some results as you seem to be right now.
> 
> Here's what I think anyway... My hunch is that DNA Land use Finland as some proxy for some share of ancient European Hunter-Gatherer DNA that has remained comparatively unaltered in our genomes over the millenia - some "basal WHG", if you wish.
> 
> I am from central France, and get 5.1% Finnish in their breakdown.
> 
> My Portuguese son-in-law gets 8.8% Finnish !!
> 
> For both of us, something labelled "South Baltic" or even "Scandinavian" might make sense, with the Suebi ending up in Braga, and the Burgundians and Wisigoths settling my own area. But Finnish ?? It hardly makes any sense, either historically or genealogically. So it has to be understood otherwise, "prehistorically", no doubt.
> ...


Fwiw, I think you're exactly right.

@Kirrun,
I haven't got results for either this or MyHeritage, but since that seems to give Iberians lots of Eastern European I'm doubtful it will be any less confusing. 

If people want to know what they actually are because for some reason they don't know, then my advice would be to take 23andme. They say it goes back 500 years, probably to cover themselves, but probably it goes back at least 1000 to 13-1400 years at least going by the minority ancestry that shows up.

If you want to know ancient ancestry someone is going to have to produce a publicly available test based on ancient samples.

----------


## Jovnna

OK thankyou all for your contribution in helping me out :)

----------


## Jovnna

Hi just to add I found two 3rd cousins from Finland, four 3rd cousins from Sweden and 16 from the Netherlands :) so I guess its there but few people. Thanks again

----------


## Sizzles

42% South Central euro
Italian/Bergamo, Italian Tuscan and tuscani no my Italian is Sicilian and it's 22% 

15% balkans
Albanian Bulgaria greek

27% norwest euro
Scottish, British, iceland, norway

10% north slavic 
Belarusian Russia Lithuania 

4.2% finnish
1. 2% Cypriot Sicilian no. I am 22% to 25% Sicilian. Mom is half sicilian

Ancestry dna
42% east euro and russia
NE Italy Croatia Bosnia Herzegovina 
22% italy sicily
15% greek and balkan
13% Irish scotland
3% france
3% Germanic euro
1% sweden
1% baltic state

Known ancestry, croatian slovenian Sicilian Irish English, German French, dutch

----------


## Jovnna

make that 30 3rd cousins or later. I put country before but changed it to ethnicity as many finlanders living in other countries. So I guess it is recent as these people are still alive.

----------


## italouruguayan

My results


West Eurasian 78%

South Central European 47%

North Western European 20%

Arab/Egyptian 4.9%

South Western European 3.7%

Ashkenazi 2.4%


Native American 17%

Native American 13% 

Amazonian 4.9%


East African 3%

Ambiguous 1.3%

----------


## Userius

West Eurasian 100%
North Slavic 56%

Northwest European 41%

Ashkenazi 1.9%

Southwestern European 1.6%



I think it's weird. I would have expected Balkan over Ashkenazi or Southwestern Europe. I'm not sure how DNA Land processes the kits.

----------


## Jovnna

My DNA.Land I ment to put them earlier:

West Eurasian 100%

North west European 72%
North east European 17%

- North Slavic 8.9%
- Finnish 7.7%

South Central European 6.2%
South western European 5.4%
[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0)]
[/COLOR]

----------


## Diamondlove

West Eurasian 100%
Northwest European 35%

Northeast European 25%
North Slavic 23%

Finnish 2.3%

Balkan 23%

Indo-Iranian 9.3%

Southwestern European 4.7%

Mediterranean Islander 3%

----------


## tortieflower

Me:
NW European 68%
Balkan 24%
Finnish 5.1%
SW European 2.2%

My mom:
NW European 64%
SW European 17%
Sardinian 1.4%
Finnish 9.7%
N Slavic 2.7%
Ambiguous 2.1%
Balkan 1.5%
Kalash 1.1%

Much of it is way off for both of us. Paper trail is England, Ireland, Scotland, West Germany, Netherlands, France, Belgium. The NW European percentages are acceptable, but the rest is not even close. Finland makes sense for WHG proxy, but the rest, who knows. Maybe it's all just proxies for ancient stuff.

----------


## pinovski

PD: Sorry > noroeste > northwest suroeste >southwest sur/centro de europa > south/ central europe





Hi, I'm from Asturias, Spain. In my family, we are not aware of having relatives outside of Spain, not even outside of Asturias, we even know our great-grandparents. The really interesting thing is that my haplogroup is the G ... not r1b, not E.

----------


## Luarev

Mine I'm 1/4 portuguese 1/4 polish 1/8 armenian and the rest is French.
West Eurasian 100%
Northwest European 31%

North Slavic 19%

Balkan 17%

Southwestern European 16%
Southwestern European 7.9%

Sardinian 7.7%

Ashkenazi/Levantine 15%
Ashkenazi 11%

Mediterranean Islander 3.3%

Ambiguous 1.7%

Central Indoeuropean 1.5%



My mother she is 1/4 armenian and the rest is French.West Eurasian 100%
South European 42%
Balkan 34%

South/Central European 8.2%

Northwest European 39%

Southwestern European 8.9%
Southwestern European 5%

Sardinian 3.8%

Arab/Egyptian 7%

Central Indoeuropean 2%

Ambiguous 1.2%

----------


## Carlos

Attachment 10636
Attachment 10637
Attachment 10638

These are my DNA autosome results. I think it's about the 4 grandparents and therefore 8 great-grandparents. I was surprised to find such a high value in France and Central Europe, which added to the Southeast Europe gives me a higher value than the Iberian Peninsula itself. I'm very clumsy and I can not interpret it too well, if you can help me out.

----------


## Salento

> These are my DNA autosome results. I think it's about the 4 grandparents and therefore 8 great-grandparents. I was surprised to find such a high value in France and Central Europe, which added to the Southeast Europe gives me a higher value than the Iberian Peninsula itself. I'm very clumsy and I can not interpret it too well, if you can help me out.


If you still haven't done it: 
Upload your FTDNA *“Build 36 Raw Data Concatenated”* to Gedmatch. :)

----------


## Duarte

Attachment 10644
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lKc...ew?usp=sharing
My DNA.LAND Results. Data uploaded from MyHeritage DNA. I'm from the Southeast Region of Brazil.

----------


## matty74

Is this accurate?

----------


## Duarte

> Is this accurate?


This is me:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GV_...ew?usp=sharing
Attachment 10667
For me, in general, I think it is accurate:
- 90% (Western Eurasia) + 5% (North African) = 95% Iberian.
- 3% Sub-Saharan Africa = descent of African slaves (very common in Brazil).
- 2% Amazonian = native american descendant (also very common in Brazil).
Greetings.

----------


## matty74

My DNA Land results seem to be more broad and not as detailed as my ancestry.com results. I think it’s pretty true that I’m broadly of NW European descent but the 11% Finnish part was interesting. I’m not sure where that comes from. I’ve matched up with Finns on MyHeritage.com though, but no idea where. Given my verifiable ancestry, I’m not sure where the Balkan comes from either. I’ve got nearly 800 matches from Norway alone. I also seem to have more DNA matches with the Netherlands than Germany! Even though my surname originates in Mecklenburg. 

DNA Land
100% West Eurasian
77% Northwest European
11% Finnish
10% Balkan
1.9% Southwestern European
Ancestry.com
100% European
46% Norway
Western Norway (Hordaland/Rogaland)
25% England, Wales & Northwestern Europe 
14% Germanic Europe 
8% Ireland & Scotland 
7% Sweden

MyHeritage.com
Europe 100%
North and West Europe 100%
Scandinavian 85.7%
North & West European 14.3%

Known Ancestry locations within 3 generations (Great and Great Great Grandparents):
Paternal Ancestry:
Denmark (South and North Jutland)
Mecklenburg-Vorpommern (NE of Wismar)
Hannover (Uelzen & Suderburg)

Distant: Quebec, Rhineland and English 

Known Maternal Ancestry locations within 2-3 Generations (Great Grandparents):
Norway (Stavanger, Madla, Vats & Vikedal)
Ostfriesland, Germany (Emden, Leer, Aurich, Esens)
Hannover, Germany 

Some distant Irish and English. Unknown locations.

----------


## Carlos

*To Pinovski

*Pinovski: Amazonian 1.6% and are you Asturian? Or some ancestor of yours who made his fortune in America and returned with a native American wife perhaps.

----------


## Duarte

> My DNA Land results seem to be more broad and not as detailed as my ancestry.com results. I think it’s pretty true that I’m broadly of NW European descent but the 11% Finnish part was interesting. I’m not sure where that comes from. I’ve matched up with Finns on MyHeritage.com though, but no idea where. Given my verifiable ancestry, I’m not sure where the Balkan comes from either. I’ve got nearly 800 matches from Norway alone. I also seem to have more DNA matches with the Netherlands than Germany! Even though my surname originates in Mecklenburg. 
> DNA Land
> 100% West Eurasian
> 77% Northwest European
> 11% Finnish
> 10% Balkan
> 1.9% Southwestern European
> Ancestry.com
> 100% European
> ...


Hello Matty,
Below "GEDmatch.Com Population Spreadsheet for Dodecad K12b ".
As you can see, the Finns are much more Northern Europeans than the Norwegians and the Swedes. By the other side, Norwegians and the Swedes are much closer to the Germans and Dutch.
The Finns are much more northern European, Siberian, southwestern Asian and South Asian than the typical Germanic peoples (Norwegians, Swedes, Germans and Dutch).
I hope you have fun analyzing the spreadsheet.
Greetings.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

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## TardisBlue

*Actual ancestry:* 
37.5% NE French
12.5% SE French
50% South Italian

*DNALand results:*
37% Balkan
31% NW Euro
16% SW Euro (14% Sardinian - 1.9% SW Euro)
6.6% Arab/ Egyptian
5.1% Ashkenazi
2.6% Central Indoeuropean
1.1% Ambiguous

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## Duarte

> Attachment 10636
> Attachment 10637
> Attachment 10638
> 
> These are my DNA autosome results. I think it's about the 4 grandparents and therefore 8 great-grandparents. I was surprised to find such a high value in France and Central Europe, which added to the Southeast Europe gives me a higher value than the Iberian Peninsula itself. I'm very clumsy and I can not interpret it too well, if you can help me out.


Hello Carlos,
Its ethnicity is typically Iberian and you should not worry too much about the 43% share of western and central Europe.


Remember that part of Andalusia was occupied by the Swabians, mainly to the west, that, later, were replaced by the Visigoths and Andalusia was part of Kingdom of Visigoths until Arab invasion of the Iberian Peninsula. Before the consolidation of the Kingdom of the Visigoths, much of what is the coast of Andalusia was part of the Byzantine Empire


The Swabians originated from the region between the Elbe and Oder rivers in present-day Germany. The Goths were a Germanic people originating from the southern regions of Scandinavia and the Visigoths were one of two branches in which the Goths were divided. Nothing abnormal that you have inherited a sizable percentage of germanic DNA (43%). Genes mingle at random. Just as you have inherited much DNA from the Germanic invaders, other relatives of you may have inherited much less. Natural.


Simply put, for me, you are 100% Iberian, ethnically divided as follows:
41% of the Iberian natives;
43% of Germanic invaders (Swabians, Goths and Visigoths and, perhaps, even Vandals);
10% of Byzantine origin (southeast of europe)
4% Berber (ancient - 6000 years ago - and medieval - 8th century after Christ);
2% background noise.
Warm greetings.
Duarte

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## matty74

> Hello Matty,
> Below "GEDmatch.Com Population Spreadsheet for Dodecad K12b ".
> As you can see, the Finns are much more Northern Europeans than the Norwegians and the Swedes. By the other side, Norwegians and the Swedes are much closer to the Germans and Dutch.
> The Finns are much more northern European, Siberian, southwestern Asian and South Asian than the typical Germanic peoples (Norwegians, Swedes, Germans and Dutch).
> I hope you have fun analyzing the spreadsheet.
> Greetings.
> 
> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing



Thank you!!

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## Duarte

> Thank you!!


You're Welcome!

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## Andalusi

Deleted post.

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## Carlos

^^Hi, how are you welcome?

Hi, how are you welcome?


To be your first post you enter strong. All in one, presentation, display of results, name of evocative nickname; although from the past because it no longer exists.
What part of Spain are you from?

http://yusufgalan.blogspot.com/2014/...ia-es-una.html

You had the Tartessa star on, now you have just removed it.

http://paseandohistoria.blogspot.com...de%20Catalunya

Are you Yasuf Galán, from Madrid and the first Spanish Yidahista arrested in Spain?

https://elpais.com/politica/2017/10/...14_529611.html

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## Andalusi

I answer you Carlos.

As I putted before, I am from Andalusia. 

I uploaded that picture to my profile because I am appasionate to ancient hispanic and andalusi history. As you know, the star have tartessic origins and then andalusian people catch this symbol for his own monuments or culture. I cachted this image from Google photos, I didn't know that belong to Yusuf Galn blog. I have now deleted this picture (don't before as you say) in case it is offensive. The reason for my nick is my passion for al Andalus history, nothing more. 

I am not Yusuf Galn of course and any terrorist person. I am a simple user that I want learn of this forum. It's unacceptable your attitude.

PD: I have deleted my results... if I see that in this forum there is more respect, I will came back to write.

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## Carlos

^^ 
¿No sabía que estaba usando símbolos del blog de Yasuf Galán, la Yidahista española detenida como soldado cibernético, además de usar el término Andalusí y etiquetar a su grupo étnico como "ibérico con rastros árabes y bereberes"? 

Obviously the Tartessos star is not offensive by itself, but if the model that you had as an avatar takes you directly to the blog of a terresita, what do you want me to think?


Todo muy extraño. 
Para empezar, Al-Andalus no es Andalucía, ni Andalusí = andaluz y tú los estás relacionando. 
Ni Al-Andalus existe ni los andaluces. 
Alguien que se define a sí mismo de forma tan extraña y que sus datos y la imagen de su nick te llevan directamente al blog de Yusuf Galán (y el cual se eliminó rápidamente), ¿quieres que crea que es una coincidencia? Si no lo es es un presunto simpatizante. 
Y parece que tiene mucha prisa por eliminar su cuenta.
Espero que comprueben su ID de cuenta.

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## Andalusi

Contesto en espaol, porque creo que me entederas perfectamente.

No tienes ningn derecho a acusarme de algo tan gravsimo y tan abominable como todo lo que me estas diciendo. Ni soy ese tipo ni soy simpatizante. Desconoca totalmente que esa foto en concreto perteneca al blog de esa abominacin de persona, si es que se le puede llamar persona. Si no me crees all t.

No tienes que darme lecciones sobre lo que e es Andaluca y al-Andalus, s que son dos cosas totalmente diferentes y de tiempos distintos. Y si puse en orgenes tnicos eso, es porque me aparecen tales porcentajes (aunque mnimos) en dna.land. No obstante, lo he retirado por si resulta ofensivo...

Y no es prisa ninguna por eliminar mi cuenta, lo que no voy es a estar escribiendo ni pertenenciendo a un foro en el que se me insulta de esta manera.

Y ante todo, pido disculpas si por algo que haya puesto en mi nick o perfil, ha resultado ofensivo.

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## Carlos

> Contesto en espa�ol, porque creo que me entederas perfectamente.
> 
> No tienes ning�n derecho a acusarme de algo tan grav�simo y tan abominable como todo lo que me estas diciendo. Ni soy ese tipo ni soy simpatizante. Desconoc�a totalmente que esa foto en concreto pertenec�a al blog de esa abominaci�n de persona, si es que se le puede llamar persona. Si no me crees all� t�.
> 
> No tienes que darme lecciones sobre lo que e es Andaluc�a y al-Andalus, s� que son dos cosas totalmente diferentes y de tiempos distintos. Y si puse en or�genes �tnicos eso, es porque me aparecen tales porcentajes (aunque m�nimos) en dna.land. No obstante, lo he retirado por si resulta ofensivo...
> 
> Y no es prisa ninguna por eliminar mi cuenta, lo que no voy es a estar escribiendo ni pertenenciendo a un foro en el que se me insulta de esta manera.
> 
> Y ante todo, pido disculpas si por algo que haya puesto en mi nick o perfil, ha resultado ofensivo.


Do not have the letter ñ on the computer?

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## Angela

Andalusi:

This is an English language forum. Please post in English.

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## Salento

> If you still haven't done it: 
> Upload your FTDNA *“Build 36 Raw Data Concatenated”* to Gedmatch. :)


There have been changes at FTDNA since I posted this, for Gedmatch try “Build 37 Raw Data Concatenated”. (as of now)

It seems that there are compatibility issues with the new format on multiple sites.

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## Carlos

^^^^

It's true it had changed.

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## AndreaE

Hi, my ancestors are from Bavaria/Germany and here are my results:

Ancestry Composition
*Andrea
Egner*











West Eurasian 96%
Northwest European 91%

South/Central European 3%

Finnish 2%

North African 4.3%

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## Puertoordacense

South/Central European 44%
Southwestern European 25%
Mediterranean Islander 9.3%
North Slavic 4.2%
Finnish 3.3%
Northwest European 6.9%
Dravidian 1.7%
Arab/Egyptian 1%
North African 4.8%

Sent from my MI 8 SE using Tapatalk

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## RagnarofMacedon

IM Macedonian from (Kumanovo) but my mother is half Serbian.


FTDNA

East Europe 48%
Southeast Europe 42%
Ashkenazi 4%
Shepardic 3%
Middle Eastern 3%

DNA.land

South European 60%
-South/Central European 30%
-Balkan 30%
North Slavic 31%
Ashkenazi 8.6%

GenePlaza

Eastern Medditerranean 41.3%
-Cypriot in Cyprus,Italian/EastSicilian and Italian/WestSicilian and Maltese in Malta.
North Slavic 28.9%
Southwestern European 15.3%
-Basque/French and Basque/Spanish.
Ashkenazi 10.5%
Ambigouous 1.2%

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## Hawk

North Albanian - Eastern Kosovo region.

Mediterranean Islander - 47%
Balkan - 34%
Northwest European - 19%

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