# Humanities & Anthropology > Anthropology & Ethnography > Guess the Ethnicity >  Guess his ethnicity

## Angela



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## Anfänger

I think he might be Greek or from any Balkan country.

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## Duarte

French. He looks like someone from southern France.

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## italouruguayan

Reminds me of an Italian actor from the series "Commissario Rex"

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## Angela

You got it, Italo, he's the Italian actor whom you saw in that series. :) I don't think he "looks" very Italian, however, neither in facial bone structure nor body type.

If I had to play a guessing game, I guess I'd say Balkanite, but that doesn't quite fit either.

I think he has a very archaic look in a lot of his pictures. Unlike Moesan, I'm not all that conversant with all the Mesolithic samples from Europe so I can't be more specific than that, but those jutting brows, slanted forehead, even his body built etc., are not at all common in Italy.

This is what I mean; he should never smile. :)


When I found out his heritage it made more sense. He's half Sardinian. I think perhaps his looks are a bit of a throw back because of the large percentage of WHG in Sardinians.



I've always thought he was ugly, but I just saw him in the first episode of La Vita Promessa with Luisa Ranieri on Netflix, and he definitely has a sort of smoldering sexuality thing going on when he wants to portray it. :)

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## italouruguayan

It seemed to me that it was him! :) 
His cheekbones caught my attention, not very "Italian" ...

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## Duarte

His features remind me of those of French Chef Olivier Anquier (Olivier Noel Christian François Anquier) living in Brazil and born in Montfermeil - France.

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## Angela

Yes, I definitely see it, although the Frenchman is better looking. :)

Anyone who is looking for something to watch should give the series a try. I think it's quite good in portraying the experience of those immigrants who went to the U.S. in the beginning of the 20th century, even if it's a bit of a soap opera. If nothing else, one can look at the beautiful Luisa Ranieri. One can a bit understand his obsession, without excusing his crimes against her. 

She's gained a little weight and a few wrinkles with the passage of the years (she was 45 when the film was made in 2018) and two babies, but I think she's still stunning, even having clearly resisted the pressure to have things done to her face and body.

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## Pax Augusta

> You got it, Italo, he's the Italian actor whom you saw in that series. :) I don't think he "looks" very Italian, however, neither in facial bone structure nor body type.
> 
> If I had to play a guessing game, I guess I'd say Balkanite, but that doesn't quite fit either.
> 
> I think he has a very archaic look in a lot of his pictures. Unlike Moesan, I'm not all that conversant with all the Mesolithic samples from Europe so I can't be more specific than that, but those jutting brows, slanted forehead, even his body built etc., are not at all common in Italy.
> 
> This is what I mean; he should never smile. :)
> 
> 
> When I found out his heritage it made more sense. He's half Sardinian. I think perhaps his looks are a bit of a throw back because of the large percentage of WHG in Sardinians.


His parents, father is Sardinian from Oristano and his mother is most likely Tuscan from Siena. The pic was posted by him.

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## Cato

According to this article the surname Arca is of Corsican origin

https://www.lanuovasardegna.it/regio...ali-1.15775631

His name Is Francesco Arca

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## Angela

That may be, but the line obviously was in Sardinia long enough for the phenotype to be very Sardinian of a certain type and not typically Corsican.

I by no means meant to imply that all Sardinians look like him, because they don't, but a certain percentage do indeed exhibit that archaic phenotype.

Also, you can find rather archaic looking people in other countries too. 

I always thought Rafael Nadal was rather archaic looking.

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## Cato

I don't know much about the phenotype of the Corsicans but i agree that he looks Sardinian although he consider himself Tuscan (from what i've read)

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## Pax Augusta

> I don't know much about the phenotype of the Corsicans but i agree that he looks Sardinian although he consider himself Tuscan (from what i've read)


Well, he consider himself (also) Sardinian.

«Sono al 51% sardo!» «Il mio sangue sardo, la caratteristica che ho ereditato da mio padre – spiega – è la testardaggine, come lui ho la testa dura e credo sia la mia dote migliore, per lo meno sul piano professionale, perché mi spinge a non arrendermi, ad affrontare le difficoltà che sono arrivate, arrivano e arriveranno».

*Tornando alla Sardegna, qual è il suo legame con l’isola?* 

«Intenso. Qua ho i cugini, gli zii, la famiglia da parte mio padre. Sono legato a tutto il Sinis e in particolar modo a Is Arutas che è la spiaggia della mia infanzia e che continuo ad amare. Ma la Sardegna la conosco tutta: la spiaggia di Porto Pino e tutta la zona di Teulada mi fa impazzire, al nord ci sono scenari incredibili ma l’entroterra ha un fascino magico. Mi capita di frequentarla anche d’inverno e diverse volte ho avuto il piacere di godermi la Sartiglia. La Sardegna è un mondo che contiene mondi». 

https://www.lanuovasardegna.it/tempo...ace-1.17849642

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## Cato

Here he says "sono un toscano romanista" i'm a Tuscan who supports A.S. Roma 
https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.voceg...da-siena-85430

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## Pax Augusta

> Here he says "sono un toscano romanista" i'm a Tuscan who supports A.S. Roma 
> https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.voceg...da-siena-85430


That's a 2016 interview to a newspaper of AS Roma supporters, the one I had posted is more recent (and it was to a Sardinian newspaper). Can you immagine a Tuscan who supports AS Roma? He is an actor, he lives in Rome, most of the Italian actors live or move to Rome, and he says what the interviewer expects to hear. In any case, he is still half Sardinian and half Tuscan. His Sardinian father was a soldier in the Folgore, which has most of its bases in Tuscany.

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## Angela

How did a molehill turn into a mountain? My father was born in Sarzana (Liguria on the border of Toscana) and raised near Aulla in Toscana. He identified a lot with Ligurians and Tuscans because he spent his life amongst them until moving to the U.S. in his mid thirties. That didn't change the fact that he was 100% Emilian, often went to visit family there and understood and spoke a variant of Pramzan spoken in the mountains.

Genetics don't change, although cultural affiliations might. Another example is my husband: 100% Southern Italian in genetics but American in affiliation. He neither understands nor speaks Italian, has never been there for more than two weeks at a time, has loyalty only to the U.S. although he is proud of his Italian heritage and is far more Italian in his personality and outlooks than even he appreciates.

This is a thread about PHENOTYPES. That relates to genetics. What difference does it make if he sometimes describes himself as a Tuscan and sometimes as a Sardinian, especially as he's actually both, and as a supporter of a Roman team since he's probably lived there for decades.

Even in Italy people move around. A Southern Italian who moves to the Trentino or Aosta is still Southern Italian in terms of genetics. Foreigners might not be able to tell them apart, but Italians should in most cases be able to do so. Your genetics don't and can't change. Even if a person would prefer to identify with their new area I'm sure if it's Italy that the locals don't let him or her forget it. 
.

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## bigsnake49

> 


In that first pic he looks a bit like my son who is a total mongrel, Greek/Thracian on my side and Italian and English/Irish on his mother's side.

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## Cato

He doesn't look central italian

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## Vallicanus

Chiellini is Tuscan but most Tuscans have straight noses of moderate size,not big, hooked noses.

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## thejoker

> This man is from Tuscany, he is exactly 50% from central Italy, his mother is tuscan. 
> 
> Despite he is not a stereotypical central italian with a "big hook nose" like for example Chiellini, central italians can look also like him.
> 
> An example is for example the champion Filippo Magnini from Marche (central italy). Not all central italians have hook nose as anyone claim!
> Attachment 13043


How is Chiellini's nose typical for Tuscany or Central Italy ?? Most of Tuscan and Central Italian football players have straight little\medium nose. 
Arca doesn't look central Italian at all, let alone Tuscan, he looks Sardinian to the bone and he's a drop of water with his Sardinian father infact not the Mom. If anything Arca took his straight nose after his mom as his father is quite dinarized in the nose . Who says that all central Italians have hook noses anyway, i mean trolls apart ?? It's like to say that all Sardinians look like Gavino Garrucciu, Maria Grazia Loddo, Francesca Lodo and Michela Murgia that is swarthy, dark, large berid nosed and short like many believe.

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## Pax Augusta

Don't turn this thread in a typical Apricity discussion. Is it clear quaquaraqua aka Askra?

For the others: don't feed the tr-olls.

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## Pax Augusta

Since he got dragged into this, these are Giorgio Chiellini's Tuscan parents, both from Livorno. It is quite evident that Giorgio Chiellini's nose is also due to the fact that he has broken it numerous times.

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## Vallicanus

> Since he got dragged into this, these are Giorgio Chiellini's Tuscan parents, both from Livorno. It is quite evident that Giorgio Chiellini's nose is also due to the fact that he has broken it numerous times.


The father looks very typical of Tuscany.

Tuscan women are sometimes fairer than their menfolk but Chiellini's mother is especially light.

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## Angela

We now have an example of the new math: 50% = 100%. :)

I'm confused why Nordicists don't like it when WHG revivals show up in phenotype. Would they like it better if they were fair skinned? That would be against the ancient dna as we currently understand it, however. 

Well, Nordicists are confused from the inception, after all, given that the "Nordic" phenotype could be held to be a depigmented "Mediterranean", i.e. farmer phenotype. :)

It isn't the most logical, consistent, ideology is it?

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## Jovialis

^^I feel like a lot of British people look like depigmented Mediterraneans, (even pigmented ones). This makes sense to me, considering they can be modeled as about half Anatolia_N/CHG.

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## Jovialis

> ^^I feel like a lot of British people look like depigmented Mediterraneans, (even pigmented ones). This makes sense to me, considering they can be modeled as about half Anatolia_N/CHG.



Aneli et al. 2021 says *Anatolia_N / plus smaller but significant CHG admixture* are significant components that define the Mediterranean genetic continuum.

Considering the chart above, you could say Northern Europeans are half-Mediterranean / half-European Hunter-gatherer.

When you consider the Lazaridis pre-print from 2018 (Dzudzuana being core of West Eurasian ancestry), I wonder if something like that may be closer to reality.

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## Jovialis

> He doesn't look central italian


My wife is Central Italian, but has a more "Northern" look with light eyes and hair.

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## Angela

> ^^I feel like a lot of British people look like depigmented Mediterraneans, (even pigmented ones). This makes sense to me, considering they can be modeled as about half Anatolia_N/CHG.


The British, especially the English, have changed since the Iron Age and the Anglo-Saxon period, as has all of Europe. It's movement from south to north, from France in their case. Even the Norwegians, who are about as "Nordic" as you get are only about 50-55% Steppe nowadays, quite different from Nordic Iron Age.

You only consistently get there and above in far northeastern Europe and eastern Europe, which isn't, if you're going to have any factual basis for this stuff at all, Nordic territory. 

That's what's so ironic about all this "Nordicism", White Nationalism being so prominent in Eastern Europe. They're Slavs, not Nordics, and as such most of them wouldn't have passed the Nazi "racial" tests. That's why the test is now percentage of steppe ancestry or "boreal" ancestry instead of "Nordicism". The majority of the Slavs were all headed for the gas chambers once the Germans got through with the Jews and Gypsies and Homosexuals, the latter also ironic given how the SD etc was crawling with them. 

Well, as I've said elsewhere, if you're looking for logic you're not going to find it in these ideologies.

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## Sylvanas

He looks like Greek to me.

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## Cato

The pigmentation of Arca is similar to that of the Sardinian singer Marco Carta. I don't know if It's a WHG thing because i've never seen a Lithuanian with that look, maybe ANF ?

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## Northener

> The British, especially the English, have changed since the Iron Age and the Anglo-Saxon period, as has all of Europe. It's movement from south to north, from France in their case. Even the Norwegians, who are about as "Nordic" as you get are only about 50-55% Steppe nowadays, quite different from Nordic Iron Age.
> 
> You only consistently get there and above in far northeastern Europe and eastern Europe, which isn't, if you're going to have any factual basis for this stuff at all, Nordic territory. 
> 
> That's what's so ironic about all this "Nordicism", White Nationalism being so prominent in Eastern Europe. They're Slavs, not Nordics, and as such most of them wouldn't have passed the Nazi "racial" tests. That's why the test is now percentage of steppe ancestry or "boreal" ancestry instead of "Nordicism". The majority of the Slavs were all headed for the gas chambers once the Germans got through with the Jews and Gypsies and Homosexuals, the latter also ironic given how the SD etc was crawling with them. 
> 
> Well, as I've said elsewhere, if you're looking for logic you're not going to find it in these ideologies.


Nordicism and (hyper) borealism have the same roots (wiki Dutch google translate):




> Theosophy, Ariosophy and Third Reich
> The glorification of the far north dates back to the Enlightenment and Romanticism, where the north served as a model for the stereotypical values ​​of Western civilization. In the 19th century racial theory of Arthur de Gobineau, Ludwig Schemann and Houston Stewart Chamberlain, the north is then connected with the origin of the Aryan race. The theosophist Helena Blavatsky uses a development model. In her 1888 Root-Race Doctrine, she distinguishes between the earlier inhabitants of the sunken continents of Hyperborea, Lemuria, and Atlantis, and the Aryans of the present Indo-European continent. In later esoteric writers these categories largely coincide.
> 
> 
> Around 1900, from these impulses, the doctrine of Ariosophy arose, which focused on the divine mission of the Aryan or white race. The Thule-Gesellschaft was particularly influential, which was one of the direct predecessors of the German Nazi Party. From 1928, the German-Dutch scholar Herman Wirth developed the theory that Western civilization arose on a submerged continent that he called Atlantis, Hyperborea or Thule. He saw the rise of the Nazi movement as a return to the roots of this Atlantean-Nordic civilization and the beginning of a spiritual renaissance. Wirth's ideas were met with widespread interest. SS leader Heinrich Himmler appointed him director of the Deutsche Ahnenerbe in 1935 and his ideas remained part of the core values ​​of the Third Reich even after he himself was sidetracked.
> 
> 
> Julius Evola
> The word "boreal" in its current sense was probably first used by the Italian reactionary and traditionalist Julius Evola, a thinker influential in far-right circles.[3] Evola was partly inspired by the work of Herman Wirth.[4] In his 1937 book Il mistero del Graal (The Riddle of the Grail), Evola writes:
> ...


https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boreaal_(politieke_term)

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## Angela

I have no idea what you're talking about. First of all that doesn't at all look like him. You've chosen a picture taken from a distance where he could be an average Med person. He isn't. This is what he looks like when he's TANNED. The pictures I provided are of him WITHOUT a tan. Do I have to explain to someone flying the Italian flag that people can have one skin tone in January and another many shades darker at the end of August?

The WHG had dark skin according to the data we now have. The people living in Lithuania, even if they have a lot of WHG are, of course, fair skinned since they have EVOLVED to fit their environment in the 5,000 years which have passed. The SHG had a significant percentage of fair haired, eyed and skinned individuals among them, remember?



Do you see the huge, protruding brow ridge, with the deep set eyes and high cheekbones?


I was talking about ARCHAIC BONE STRUCTURE in the cranium and face. It's not about pigmentation. He has rather archaic features. Sardinians have quite a bit of WHG in them, more than mainland Italians, to be sure. A certain percentage of Sardinians, perhaps those with more ancestry from the isolated parts of the island, can have those archaic features. Arca is HALF SARDINIAN. He looks Sardinian, NOT Tuscan. Not all Sardinians look like him. 

This is a Mediterranean face. Please don't tell me you don't see the difference.

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## Cato

It was not my intencion to convince you, for me they look similar.... punti di vista

You don't see those traits (i'm not talking about pigmentation now) in Baltic Peoples or northern European in general, so no WHG

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## Angela

If you can't tell the difference between a Marco Mengoni type and the coarse featured, hardly reduced face of Arca with his significant surpraorbital arches and that forehead, and don't know that there are a lot of depigmented Meds in northern Europe all I can suggest is that you get ahold of some of the old anthropology books and look at the plates until you figure it out.

I'm out.

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## Palermo Trapani

> Yes, I definitely see it, although the Frenchman is better looking. :)
> 
> Anyone who is looking for something to watch should give the series a try. I think it's quite good in portraying the experience of those immigrants who went to the U.S. in the beginning of the 20th century, even if it's a bit of a soap opera. If nothing else, one can look at the beautiful Luisa Ranieri. One can a bit understand his obsession, without excusing his crimes against her. 
> 
> She's gained a little weight and a few wrinkles with the passage of the years (she was 45 when the film was made in 2018) and two babies, but I think she's still stunning, even having clearly resisted the pressure to have things done to her face and body.


I have seen the first episode, very good so far but yes there is a soap opera element. It is obvious Mr. Ferri from Cosmo is in love with Carmela (had a Great Grandfather with masculine version of name, Carmelo) so I wonder where that goes. I sense Don Spano (grew up with some Spano's) is likely going to head to NYC given he got the mail from Maria to her fiancé/boy friend. I didn't realize Luisia Ranieri is Luca Zingaretti's (Commissioner Montalbano) wife. Lucky fellow as she is a very stunning woman.

One other thing, watching the episode it seemed like it was filmed in Sicily and I thought the Naples part was actually Naples but it turns out watching the credits it was filmed in Puglia, tip of the cap to Jovialis and Salento. Does anyone have an idea where in Puglia it was filmed. Beautiful scenery.

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## Cato

> If you can't tell the difference between a Marco Mengoni type and the coarse featured, hardly reduced face of Arca with his significant surpraorbital arches and that forehead, and don't know that there are a lot of depigmented Meds in northern Europe all I can suggest is that you get ahold of some of the old anthropology books and look at the plates until you figure it out.
> 
> I'm out.


According to Coon the Paleo/Mesolithic survivals are the Alpine, Borreby and Brunn types. Francesco Arca doesnt belong to these phenotypes. (Note that the coarse mediterranean type Is also present in places like Calabria, a region with barely any WHG ancestry)

This Is a what i believe Is a WHG influenced phenotype:

Girl from Oliena, Central Sardinia, in fact She could be mistaken for a Basque or even Irish girl IMO (two WHG rich populations)

Or also the mother of Giorgio Chiellini

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## Angela

> I have seen the first episode, very good so far but yes there is a soap opera element. It is obvious Mr. Ferri from Cosmo is in love with Carmela (had a Great Grandfather with masculine version of name, Carmelo) so I wonder where that goes. I sense Don Spano (grew up with some Spano's) is likely going to head to NYC given he got the mail from Maria to her fiancé/boy friend. I didn't realize Luisia Ranieri is Luca Zingaretti's (Commissioner Montalbano) wife. Lucky fellow as she is a very stunning woman.
> 
> One other thing, watching the episode it seemed like it was filmed in Sicily and I thought the Naples part was actually Naples but it turns out watching the credits it was filmed in Puglia, tip of the cap to Jovialis and Salento. Does anyone have an idea where in Puglia it was filmed. Beautiful scenery.


Here it is...

"Nella prima parte della serie, nonostante i luoghi citati siano la Sicilia e la Campania, le riprese sono state effettuate in Puglia (con il sostegno dell'Apulia Film Commission) nel Gargano e nel Salento, oltre che nelle città di Nardò, Giuliano di Lecce, Bari, Monopoli e Taranto["..

It's a wonderful place for a summer vacation, particularly in the Salento in August during the music festivals.

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## Palermo Trapani

> Here it is...
> 
> "Nella prima parte della serie, nonostante i luoghi citati siano la Sicilia e la Campania, le riprese sono state effettuate in Puglia (con il sostegno dell'Apulia Film Commission) nel Gargano e nel Salento, oltre che nelle città di Nardò, Giuliano di Lecce, Bari, Monopoli e Taranto["..
> 
> It's a wonderful place for a summer vacation, particularly in the Salento in August during the music festivals.


Ok, thanks. Those cities are now definitely on my to go list. I was hoping to make a trip this summer to Sicily again and visit some cities like Matera in Basilicata and Altamura in Puglia (See that Neanderthal they have there) in Southern Regions along with Rome again. But with this COVID crap again, that might have to wait till summer of 2023.

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## Vallicanus

> That's what's so ironic about all this "Nordicism", White Nationalism being so prominent in Eastern Europe. They're Slavs, not Nordics, and as such most of them wouldn't have passed the Nazi "racial" tests. That's why the test is now percentage of steppe ancestry or "boreal" ancestry instead of "Nordicism". The majority of the Slavs were all headed for the gas chambers once the Germans got through with the Jews and Gypsies and Homosexuals, the latter also ironic given how the SD etc was crawling with them. 
> 
> Well, as I've said elsewhere, if you're looking for logic you're not going to find it in these ideologies.


Amen to all of this. :Unhappy:  :Thinking: 

Polako's ravings have started a cult. Poles, victims throughout much of modern history, are now the ubermenschen. :Lol:

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## Vallicanus

The modern samples from Bergamo, Tuscany and Sicily are remarkably similar in Jovialis' chart.

Sicily has a bit more Caucasus HG and that's it.
Sardinia has a bit more Anatolian EN and just a little Caucasus.

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## Angela

> The modern samples from Bergamo, Tuscany and Sicily are remarkably similar in Jovialis' chart.
> 
> Sicily has a bit more Caucasus HG and that's it.
> Sardinia has a bit more Anatolian EN and just a little Caucasus.


The Spaniards and Northern Italians are almost identical on that chart, and the Tuscans are very close; the Czechs and Hungarians, i.e. Central Europeans ditto, and the Norwegians are not too far away. 

If the French Lyon sample was added they wouldn't be that far from Hungarians, i.e. Central Europeans, and the southwestern French would group with Spaniards.

In PCAs where you zoom out, the Finns and some Russians are the only Europeans with a gap between them and other Europeans, and that's because of some East Asian ancestry. Even that's misleading, however. When you have 10%+ ancestry from a different "continental breeding population", the genes are dissimilar enough to pull you away quite a distance from your own continental group. The North Africans are another example. However, in the case of the Finns, 90% of their ancestry is just the same as that of other Europeans, so to make an issue of it would be ridiculous, imo.

This is what I was trying to get at in the "Is Race a Construct thread". On a global level Europeans are extremely similar to one another, and Near Easterners are pretty close as well. 

Perhaps some of if has to do with the fact that prior to the advent of genetic analysis "physical" differences were the only metric people had to distinguish between "us" and "them", especially because contact with SSA and East Asia was so limited that differences among Europeans were highlighted. Add to that the fact that in more recent memory certain countries conquered other countries, and the conquering countries, like others before them throughout history, have lauded their own traits and disparaged those of the conquered groups. 

I think you see this most clearly in India in the development of the caste system, the most racist and destructive way of organizing society ever created, imo.

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## MOESAN

> It was not my intencion to convince you, for me they look similar.... punti di vista
> 
> You don't see those traits (i'm not talking about pigmentation now) in Baltic Peoples or northern European in general, so no WHG


Truth is with Angela. Yes, this kind of features can be found among Baltic people and even other Northern people (not the stereotype of 'nordic'). It's one of the looks of WHG's. Even in Iberia we found still this WHG's features, but at a low rate. Archaic.

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## Angela

^^Thank goodness. Finally someone who knows the difference between the archaic facial features of WHG resurfacing in various parts of Europe, and Mediterranean features.

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## calf

Serbian 

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