# Humanities & Anthropology > Philosophy >  How do you percieve God/Gods?

## Mycernius

It seem that on various threads and conversations I have read and heard, is that everyone seems to have different ideas about what God is. If you look at various cultures you can see that each one has differing aspects on the god or even gods. The Hindus see God as many different aspects, that appear in their pantheon of many Gods. Christians see God as the creator and the Alpha and Omega of everything. Shinto seem to believe in many Gods and spirits that inhabit the earth. In Africa various beliefs hold that the supreme being is so powerful that it is beyond us to know it and have lesser gods that interact with people. Just curious to know what people perceive God as.  :Doubt:  
Thank you

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## Kama

I am really close to the shintoism view at Goda. 

Well, it's quite messed up, because I believe there are many gods/spirits who can be good/bad/chaotic. God and Satan are just one of the Gods for me. Hmmm... it's hard to explain it really.

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## Frank D. White

Kinda like the Nun standing over you, ready to wack your knuckles when you do wrong. I figure I better do right here on earth or get my knuckles rapped big time when I leave this world.

Frank

 :Blush:

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## isayhello

no god at all. you have to care for yourself. there's no one watching over you. (except mom and dad if they are alive)

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## smoke

i agree with 'isayhello' to a certain extenet.
you should live life like you are not responsible to or for a god...i believe you'd be placing you life in mythological hands if you did.

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## Doc

Personally I believe in one god. God itself. I believe God is loving, and to a certain extend is extremely forgiving on his creation. However, I don't think God is there for every single human being all the time, and I think that while a person should have spiritual faith in something even if it's a damn fence post (You dirty little pagans. Of course at least it's better than not believeing in absolutely nothing.), I believe that humans must rely on their own self wits and love for themselves to survive in the harsh realities of the modern world today. You need spiritual faith, but you need to be pratical and do things for yourself rather than pray to a deity all the time to get things done.




> no god at all. you have to care for yourself. there's no one watching over you. (except mom and dad if they are alive)


BTW isayhello, do you know what I love about athiests like you? (BTW I have nothing against athiests.) You live your whole life out without believing in anything but yourself, yet when it comes time for death or talking about death you're scared s***less. 

Doc :Ramen:  :Joyful:

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## sgt. Pepper

I don't belive in a god.

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## Flashjeff

Um, does The Mighty Thor count? He's the only god I follow!  :Laughing:

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## Jungle Boy

I don't really believe in any god (there's like hundreds to choose from...not exactly concrete evidence...). I just try to be a good person and I'll worry about that when I die. As long as I be a good person and die with a clear conscience then it's all good to me.

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## kixot

I've always heard that god is love, I was raised in a society that is built over that as pillar. For me love is putting ones interests aside to think other's interests, to do things for free, to do things for the sake of others and not for one's.
So if there is a god that created us and has to be standig over everyone to judge, I don't care if there any. I don't share the vision of the Christian god that will save some at the end of time, because I don't get the idea of a god selecting people.
I do share the idea of a god that created us and that will not ask for anything now or never.

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## isayhello

> BTW isayhello, do you know what I love about athiests like you? (BTW I have nothing against athiests.) You live your whole life out without believing in anything but yourself, yet when it comes time for death or talking about death you're scared s***less. 
> 
> Doc


You're right; death DOES scare me... (some of you might know...  :Relieved:  ) And those who believe in a god of some sort might find comfort in that, and it might help them cope with issues such as death. If I believed in God, I might not have been as scared of death as I am. But I simply can't become a believer just because of that reason, if I don't feel I'm convinced.. I have thought about it, and my conclusion is that there's no god. I'm not saying that the ONLY right thing to believe or anything, it's simply what I think. 
Believing in myself sounds... also wrong to me. I don't believe in myself, at least not in the sense I think you mean. I am responsible over my own actions and over my life, but I'm not the ONLY one who could influence my life. Things don't happen because of some 'higher powers' make them happen...

Anyways, believers tend to be more calm about the life and death issue than atheists are. Maybe in a sense, that makes the religion important - even if there's no God, it gives people something they can trust and..err.. believe in!

For some, the religion and the belief in God seems like a hobby....  :Sou ka:

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## Doc

My English Literature professor is an atheist. However, he's pretty humorous about it. He was actually a Catholic, but got turned off because of the whole confessional thing when he was about 23. However, he does admit that there is some cosmic power out there, if there wasn't then how in the hell did the universe come to be? Even an atheist point of view (it was always there) is pretty weak in argument. He's even scared like crazy when it comes to death. 

Think about it, you people think that there is absolutely nothing when death comes. You just cease to exist. Some people may say that, that's a more down to earth grip on reality when it comes to death. Okay, I can understand that (pessimistic) point of view, however here's a question: if that's all life is about, then what's the point of living in the first place? I mean you shouldn't be alive if that's the case. If there's nothing after death, then whatever you did alive is rather pointless now isn't it? I'm not saying because of getting in a heaven of hell, but rather everything you lived for in life so you could be a peace in death is rather pointless.

While the religious point of view of deity and life after death is weak in a lot of spots, I feel that the atheist point of view on things is even weaker. I think it's just a copout to escape from the certain truths in life that we must all face. By saying that science and reason is the ultimate way of life, and that believing in something is completely worthless warrants automatic death in my opinion; the same for those who devote their life completely by religion and think that it has all the answers to life's problems; if there's nothing to believe in or too much to believe in, then why be alive in the first place? You may as well be used as fertilizer for flowers than staying alive on this planet.

To say that we are all part of just one big cycle of life, and that's it is rather stupid. We're alive just so we can die. I don't think so. We all have a purpose in life. Animals, bugs, etc. all have a purpose so why not humans? If we're so damn rational then why do we complain when we think there is nothing out there? There's some sort of power out there. We all have purpose. Humans aren't created just so that we can die in the end. That makes life rather pointless, even from an atheist's point of view. You know what I think? I think I know why atheists act the way they do.

You people hate the hypocrisy of organized religion, and come to the conclusion that there's nothing there. However, you are adamant about having free will (like people with religion do); that you think there's not a power in the entire universe that can stop you. But in reality, you know there is something there. You're just too scared to admit it. Thinking that there is would make you question life and the order of things. It would cause chaos in your life and routines, and you don't want that. So you choose to believe in nothing hoping that you're right, and that everything will be okay. Humanity is better suited on it's own than with a god. To bad it doesn't work out that way.

There are just some things that man cannot control, and to think they can is completely and utterly useless in my opinion. To think that man is on the top of the food chain is pretty damn sad if you ask me. Besides we don't have complete freedom of will anyway. We are reactionary. We react to our environment. That's all we do. Thinking that we have complete free will is pretty invalid. We don't have complete free will. If we do, it's very limited. We as human beings are subjected to everything else on this planet: we react to whatever we like best and go with it. That's why you have atheists, and that's why you have religious people. Sure we're reasonable creatures, but we go with what appeals to us the most by what's given to us in our environment. Why do we do such a thing? Maybe we have no choice? Maybe there is a higher power that is the one who pulls the strings. To say that there isnft, is rather pointless. (Wait until I get a cynic to argue against all of this. Maciamo is going to b**** at every single thing I say.  :Poh:  Better yet, Maciamo should stay out of this one because I don't feel like arguing with a cynic. They contradict themselves and never listen to what you have to say anyway.  :Okashii:  )

Even if we evolved into what we are, taking out the theory of creation, then why did we evolve? There has to be some driving force to make us evolve. Saying that is just happened is rather weak. Do you see what Ifm trying to say here? The atheist point of view is just as weak all the religious point of view. You people like to branch yourself off on to one side of the extreme or the other. That is pretty sad if you ask me. If there is a God, itfs probably looking down at us right now going, gThose poor sonfs of b******.h Why? Itfs because we keep f****** ourselves with being on one side of the extreme or the other. As for me, Ifm a pragmatist. Ifm practical in my points of view. Ifm neither on one side of the extreme or the other. Ifm right in the middle, which is what I think God intended us to be in the first place. I donft believe in organized religion because of the hypocrisy of the church. However, I donft believe in atheistfs point of view because itfs just has hypocritical and full of flaws.

I believe there is a power out there that created the universe that we live in. To say that itfs just by chance is irrelevant even at a scientific point of view. We are reactionary, but we do control our own destiny by picking the things we like the most. Not only that, but you know that limited free will I was talking about earlier? I think that can help a lot too. What I mean is, we can adjust and change our ways. We just need to have enough will and power to do so. However, most of us donft want to because we are in fact mostly reactionary. We are the weaker species whether we like to admit it or not. There is something out there that has made us this way. Who knows, maybe it has planned us to be this way from the beginning. We all have a purpose in life we just need to find it. The more I think about it, the more I laugh. You know atheists contradict themselves even more than they think. You say you donft believe in something, yet thatfs a belief right there. Funny how the extremes are full of flaws isnft?

In closing of my little rant Ifd like to say that I believe in God. I consider myself a Christian even if Ifm not a fan of organized religion. I wish to believe in something, not because it suits me best, but rather I will myself to. If I wanted to go with just how I feel like most of us do, I would probably be an atheist, but I know better than to just be reactionary like most of us are, and just go with that. Ifve willed myself into believing there is something out there. There has to be something after life. There are just too many unexplained things, and there is a power that is just too great that controls things. We just canft quite figure out what it is. Personally I like to believe it is God, an all loving God, and that if we are all damned in sin, that we can be forgiven as well. Well thatfs just me. You can take everything I said with a grain of salt. It doesnft matter to me how you feel, at least I know one thing for certain, I believe in something and nobody is going to take that away from me.

Doc :Ramen:  :Joyful: 

PS: Don't even argue with me if I contradict anything in this post because I'm not going to argue with you. Do you know why? Because you yourself are just has hypocritical and contradict yourself just as much as the next guy. We all are gulity of this, so deal with it.  :Okashii:

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## Mycernius

This is starting to get a little off topic. I believe the original question was how do you percieve God, not does it exist. I guess it is more a question aimed at believers. It comes down to the fact is when you are young you are given the impression that God is an old man with long white robes and a flowing beard. As you get older you hear new ideas and take these on board until you have your idea of what God is, which I believe is unique to each person. In some cases you hear these ideas and reject the idea of God altogther. I did.
Just to answer Doc (I know you won't answer). You beleive in God and I respect that. I do not for a number of reasons. The main one being that man, in his egocentric way beleives the Universe is for him, revolves around him, was created by his concept of God. The universe is currently some 15 billion years old. Our planet is 4.5 billion years old. Modern man is about 25 000 to 20 000 years old. The universe and all life before man went on it's happy way without man and his Gods for a very long time. And when man dies out, either by his own hand or by nature, the universe will still carry on its merry way without us. This is a very small planet in a very large universe. It sometimes seems that the only thing bigger than the universe is mans ego.
God is an abstarct. In order to create God you must be able to think in the abstract. We are the only creatures on this planet that can do that with complex abstarcts like God. A chimp does not have the ability to think of Gods, therefore Gods do not exist for a chimp. If a chimp could have complex abstract thioughts and looked at the world around him there is a lot he can't explain. That was what our primitive ancestors did. I can't do this therefore something much more powerful did this. Thus man created his first Gods. Over the years the concept became more complex and society became more homogenised. To control a growing society you need rules. The best way to enforce then is to us the power of Gods. A type of fear control. It is needed for large groups to function and can be seen in todays societies by laws and the threat of punishment if you go beyond these laws.
As society moved on people started to investigate the world around them. They could start to explain things that their ancestors couldn't. God starts to lose ground over science and reason, another thing that man is capable of. We will carry on and we will know more. There are those who want to keep us in the age of superstition and will invoke the fear of Gods retribution upon us all. This is the fundamentalist lobby, who would still have us back in caves. If there is any retribution it will be mans fault. 
Man is curious by nature, due to our ability to think in concepts. Some are more curious than others and are prepared to go against religious teaching and drag us to the next stage in our understanding. Copernicus, Darwin went against the beliefs of the religious and helped make us what we are today. 
If God is a comfort to you then so be it. But to some off us the concept of Gods is illogical and has no place in todays society. Our beliefs are more in nature than to an all powerful force controlling us all.
I beleive everyone is entitled to their beliefs, and their ability to enter in th reasonable discorse about them. What I do not like is the 'My way is right and you way is wrong' brigade. I don't like intolerance
BTW the term Atheist is more of a way to descibe someone with no faith. I prefer the term of non-believer. I have faith in mans ability to explain the universe and with nature to take its natural course.  :Smiling:

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## Doc

> The main one being that man, in his egocentric way beleives the Universe is for him, revolves around him, was created by his concept of God.


Funny I don't believe in that at all. To think that the universe evolves around man is pretty lame in my opinion. As vast as the universe is, I hardly believe that man is a superior being. We're nothing but a puny little species on a puny little planet in a giant ocean known as the universe. Whose to say that there aren't other speices out there that believe the same thing? Until man can explore beyond his own planet I think it's kind of hard to figure that one out. Although it would be exciting to see what other species on different planets would have on a concept of deity. :Smiling: 




> The universe and all life before man went on it's happy way without man and his Gods for a very long time. And when man dies out, either by his own hand or by nature, the universe will still carry on its merry way without us. This is a very small planet in a very large universe. It sometimes seems that the only thing bigger than the universe is mans ego.


And you wonder why I hate the church and its logic.




> God is an abstarct. In order to create God you must be able to think in the abstract. We are the only creatures on this planet that can do that with complex abstarcts like God. A chimp does not have the ability to think of Gods, therefore Gods do not exist for a chimp. If a chimp could have complex abstract thioughts and looked at the world around him there is a lot he can't explain. That was what our primitive ancestors did. I can't do this therefore something much more powerful did this. Thus man created his first Gods. Over the years the concept became more complex and society became more homogenised. To control a growing society you need rules. The best way to enforce then is to us the power of Gods. A type of fear control. It is needed for large groups to function and can be seen in todays societies by laws and the threat of punishment if you go beyond these laws.


Yet another reason why I don't like organized religion.




> As society moved on people started to investigate the world around them. They could start to explain things that their ancestors couldn't. God starts to lose ground over science and reason, another thing that man is capable of. We will carry on and we will know more. There are those who want to keep us in the age of superstition and will invoke the fear of Gods retribution upon us all. This is the fundamentalist lobby, who would still have us back in caves. If there is any retribution it will be mans fault.


Yes but science tends to go into a fundamentalist lobby as well. You're doing double talk just like a Christian fudamentalist would go on about with God.




> Man is curious by nature, due to our ability to think in concepts. Some are more curious than others and are prepared to go against religious teaching and drag us to the next stage in our understanding. Copernicus, Darwin went against the beliefs of the religious and helped make us what we are today.


Yes, but Darwin is full of BS. The "Survival of the Fittest" mentality is one of the reasons why the struggle between the classes is even worse today than it was a thousand years ago. To think that man is on top of everything because we have a rational brain is foolish. Sure we're smart, but you can't stop nature. Animals are little bit stronger than we are. Think of a lion. Do you think a lion needs a rational brain when you piss it off. I don't think so. All a lion needs to do is rip a human in half. Humans aren't on the top of the food chain of life seeing that animals can rip us apart. We have to make weapons to defend ourselves. In short, we're not as strong as we think we are. Where the weaker species when it comes to nature. So the scienctific point of view of man with Darwin is just as bigited as the religious standpoint of man.




> If God is a comfort to you then so be it. But to some off us the concept of Gods is illogical and has no place in todays society. Our beliefs are more in nature than to an all powerful force controlling us all.


Did I say that I thought God controlled my life? No I did not. I said we all have a purpose in life. That doesn't mean God controls my life. Most of the s*** that happens anymore in today's society is based on human error, judgement, and nature not that of God's. When the apcoplypse comes, then I'll say that God is pretty much controlling destiny of people's lives. It would make a good story in the VIP section for death in the next life though.  :Smiling:  

"How did you die?"
"Bus accident."
"How did you die?"
"Fell off a ladder."
"How did you die?"
"In the m***** f****** apcoplypse man!"




> I beleive everyone is entitled to their beliefs, and their ability to enter in th reasonable discorse about them. What I do not like is the 'My way is right and you way is wrong' brigade. I don't like intolerance.


So are you in the middle of the road type guy like me? Or are you the scienctific type guy. It's either one end of the extreme or the other for most people. I personally choose the middle seeing that I agree with both logic, reason, science, nature and spirtiual faith. 




> BTW the term Atheist is more of a way to descibe someone with no faith. I prefer the term of non-believer. I have faith in mans ability to explain the universe and with nature to take its natural course.


. . .Empericist  :Okashii:  (J/K)  :Smiling:  

Doc :Ramen:  :Joyful:

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## isayhello

Nice rant Doc - I enjoyed reading it. However, I don't agree with you, but that's what makes these conversations enjoyable, ne?
I... wish I could write a rant like you, but the truth is, I'm not sure what I wanna say, and my english is limited, so I'm not sure it would come out the right way... Still, I want to comment some of your posts:



> Think about it, you people think that there is absolutely nothing when death comes. You just cease to exist. Some people may say that, that's a more down to earth grip on reality when it comes to death. Okay, I can understand that (pessimistic) point of view, however here's a question: if that's all life is about, then what's the point of living in the first place? I mean you shouldn't be alive if that's the case. If there's nothing after death, then whatever you did alive is rather pointless now isn't it? I'm not saying because of getting in a heaven of hell, but rather everything you lived for in life so you could be a peace in death is rather pointless.


Why do you HAVE to have a point? You keep on mentioning this in you rant, as if there would HAVE to be one.. Couldn't it be, that there simply is NO point. See, I think this is where many people stop. Humans need explanations, they need to figure things out and understand them, to be able to accept them. Simply saying that 'there's NO point' pisses a lot of people off, since that answer offers no further knowledge... 




> You people hate the hypocrisy of organized religion, and come to the conclusion that there's nothing there. However, you are adamant about having free will (like people with religion do); that you think there's not a power in the entire universe that can stop you. But in reality, you know there is something there. You're just too scared to admit it. Thinking that there is would make you question life and the order of things. It would cause chaos in your life and routines, and you don't want that. So you choose to believe in nothing hoping that you're right, and that everything will be okay. Humanity is better suited on it's own than with a god. To bad it doesn't work out that way.


The hypocripsy of organized religion was not what made me realize there's no god (no god for me, at least). BUT looking at the organized groups of religion makes one realize what a great tool of power religion can be, and also makes it clear that religion can easily be used to make a lot of people believe in certain things. Religion is what started of most conflicts in the world... 
I don't think one should mix the words 'religion' and 'belief' and think that they are the same... they can be two completely different things...





> There are just some things that man cannot control, and to think they can is completely and utterly useless in my opinion.


Being a non-believer, or an atheist, doesn't have to mean you believe in yourself as the only existing 'God'. Some simply believe that there's no god, no reason or no greater power behind it all. You make it sound as if all atheists think they're gods themselves...




> Even if we evolved into what we are, taking out the theory of creation, then why did we evolve? There has to be some driving force to make us evolve.


Again, you ask WHY... Why, why why? Maybe there's no explanation. They fact that there might be no reason seems to scare you...? The driving force behind evolution might just have been evolution itself? Evolution IS a driving force of nature, making creatures and plants adapt to their enviroment, to make them more fit to survive. What actually _made_ it all happen in the fist place.. I believe nothing _made_ it happen - biology and chemistry and the right ingredients (sp?). No reason!




> You know atheists contradict themselves even more than they think. You say you donft believe in something, yet thatfs a belief right there. Funny how the extremes are full of flaws isnft?


Extremes are full of flaws, yes. And that's not only the atheists.

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## Thor

I'm going to feel stupid about this, so please don't bash me 100%. Couldn't gods be a product of drugs like opium and other early drugs? It's silly to think that there are deitys watching over us all, but have become silent over the years

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## Doc

> I'm going to feel stupid about this, so please don't bash me 100%. Couldn't gods be a product of drugs like opium and other early drugs? It's silly to think that there are deitys watching over us all, but have become silent over the years


You know I seroiusly wonder that sometimes too. There was a speculation that when the cave man came up with their crude concept of deity it was due to a combination of opium and fear. I wouldn't doubt if it was both. The same applies to the Greeks as well. Don't get me started on the Greek delphis!  :Poh:  Now those people were doing some seroius hardcore s*** to come up with preminitions that they did.  :Sou ka:  

Doc :Ramen: happy:

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## Doc

> Why do you HAVE to have a point? You keep on mentioning this in you rant, as if there would HAVE to be one.. Couldn't it be, that there simply is NO point. See, I think this is where many people stop. Humans need explanations, they need to figure things out and understand them, to be able to accept them. Simply saying that 'there's NO point' pisses a lot of people off, since that answer offers no further knowledge...


But don't you see? That's what pisses people off with religion in the first place. Humans have a thirst for knowledge. That's what happens when you have a rational brain. Humans will never be satified unless you don't have an answer tagged to everything. That's why people will always continue to ask the question why. Deal with it.  :Poh:  




> The hypocripsy of organized religion was not what made me realize there's no god (no god for me, at least). BUT looking at the organized groups of religion makes one realize what a great tool of power religion can be, and also makes it clear that religion can easily be used to make a lot of people believe in certain things. Religion is what started of most conflicts in the world... 
> I don't think one should mix the words 'religion' and 'belief' and think that they are the same... they can be two completely different things...


Well that also depends on your concept of a textbook definition of the words "religion" and "belief". Everybody has their own meaning to the words. There is no right or wrong answer in the world today, only opinions. As for religion being a tool of power, why do you think I disagree with organized religion the way I do? Don't even get me started on the Catholic Church. I could rant all day on those bastards.  :Poh:  




> Being a non-believer, or an atheist, doesn't have to mean you believe in yourself as the only existing 'God'. Some simply believe that there's no god, no reason or no greater power behind it all. You make it sound as if all atheists think they're gods themselves...


Dear I think you got it wrong. I wasn't tagging all atheists as being bad. Far from it. Personally I sort of like that type of mentality. It keeps a person open minded and objective. I was simply ranting on those that swear by nothing but science. The people who swear by science piss me off just as much as the ones who swear by religion do. They think that science holds all the answers, and everything else is wrong. But when science is wrong, all hell breaks loose. The same can be definitely said about religion.




> Again, you ask WHY... Why, why why? Maybe there's no explanation. They fact that there might be no reason seems to scare you...? The driving force behind evolution might just have been evolution itself? Evolution IS a driving force of nature, making creatures and plants adapt to their enviroment, to make them more fit to survive. What actually _made_ it all happen in the fist place.. I believe nothing _made_ it happen - biology and chemistry and the right ingredients (sp?). No reason!


Once again, why do you ask why? It's because we all do. It's a part of human nature dear. There's nothing you can do about it. Human nature may be unpredicatable, but it still never changes. Not having a reason scare me? Hardly! It only makes me more thirsty for knowledge. As I said before we're resaonable beings so we want knowledge. I'll never stop asking because I want to know, even if it's an opinion. I'm like a schoolboy with library book, I want to learn more. I'm not afraid if there's no answer to something. Not one bit, rather it just makes me want to learn more about the world around me.




> Extremes are full of flaws, yes. And that's not only the atheists.


I never said it was. I could go on all day about the flaws in government, economics, religion, science, etc. Everything has flaws. The question is, do you let the extremes with the most flaws rule your life? If so it could cause an unbalanced person who is not open to outside ideas. You see what I mean? Look I'm not trying to start an argument here, I just want people to start thinking constructively here. I was brought up in the world in not believing in extremes as they can bring out the worst in people, and more so can make people too cynical and closed minded for new and outside ideas. I'm not trying to piss anybody off here, I'm just trying to get you all to think without being in an extreme. That's all. :Smiling: 

Doc :Ramen:  :Joyful:

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## Thor

> You know I seroiusly wonder that sometimes too. There was a speculation that when the cave man came up with their crude concept of deity it was due to a combination of opium and fear. I wouldn't doubt if it was both. The same applies to the Greeks as well. Don't get me started on the Greek delphis!  Now those people were doing some seroius hardcore s*** to come up with preminitions that they did.  
> 
> Dochappy:


Definently, I disagree with most of the stuff people say about gods. I don't like bashing religion but it seems very awkward for me. Of course there was something before the universe, and that was probably another universe but I GUESS we could define that as a god?
Moses probably was doing some good stuff on the hill when god spoke to him. It's all speculation, isn't it?  :Blush:

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## Doc

> Definently, I disagree with most of the stuff people say about gods. I don't like bashing religion but it seems very awkward for me. Of course there was something before the universe, and that was probably another universe but I GUESS we could define that as a god?
> Moses probably was doing some good stuff on the hill when god spoke to him. It's all speculation, isn't it?


Pretty much. I mean we weren't alive around that time so who knows what really happened, other than what was written down ne? Personally I look at The Bible from a literature and historical point of view rather than a religious point of view. Keeps the person more open minded for criticism if you catch my drift. :Smiling: 

Doc :Ramen:  :Joyful:

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## Thor

In addition to the fact that many religious texts have been revised to meet with past & current standards.

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## Doc

This is true. Personally I think it is a good thing in some aspects because it can help us all understand particular religions better. However, some revisions can actually just make it more abstract and hard to understand. I guess it all depends on the ones who revise it.

Doc :Ramen:  :Joyful:

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## Mycernius

> Funny I don't believe in that at all. To think that the universe evolves around man is pretty lame in my opinion. As vast as the universe is, I hardly believe that man is a superior being. We're nothing but a puny little species on a puny little planet in a giant ocean known as the universe. Whose to say that there aren't other speices out there that believe the same thing? Until man can explore beyond his own planet I think it's kind of hard to figure that one out. Although it would be exciting to see what other species on different planets would have on a concept of deity.


I've always wondered what the religious extremists would say if aliens arrived on earth. Probably that they are Satans minions come to corrupt man.





> Yes but science tends to go into a fundamentalist lobby as well. You're doing double talk just like a Christian fudamentalist would go on about with God.


I've had to defend myself to a lot of Jesus freaks in the past. They've got a tendency to quote a lot from the Bible if they get stuck, I have to use science and logic. I used to work with a convert to JW for 5 years. This tends to focus the mind.






> Yes, but Darwin is full of BS. The "Survival of the Fittest" mentality is one of the reasons why the struggle between the classes is even worse today than it was a thousand years ago. To think that man is on top of everything because we have a rational brain is foolish. Sure we're smart, but you can't stop nature. Animals are little bit stronger than we are. Think of a lion. Do you think a lion needs a rational brain when you piss it off. I don't think so. All a lion needs to do is rip a human in half. Humans aren't on the top of the food chain of life seeing that animals can rip us apart. We have to make weapons to defend ourselves. In short, we're not as strong as we think we are. Where the weaker species when it comes to nature. So the scienctific point of view of man with Darwin is just as bigited as the religious standpoint of man.


Our survival trait is our bigger brain and intelligence. Being a weaker animal you have to find some way to defend yourself against stronger animals. This has been seen in chimps against baboons. A chimp will used a weapon to defend itself. It uses it's intelligence to overcome a stronger foe. It should be more survival of the intelligent. See the Darwin Awards  :Laughing:  






> Did I say that I thought God controlled my life? No I did not. I said we all have a purpose in life. That doesn't mean God controls my life. Most of the s*** that happens anymore in today's society is based on human error, judgement, and nature not that of God's.


I didn't say God controlled your life. I implied that the religious say that it is gods will if something happens. No, that is nature. You strike me as more spiritual than God obsessed.




> So are you in the middle of the road type guy like me? Or are you the scienctific type guy. It's either one end of the extreme or the other for most people. I personally choose the middle seeing that I agree with both logic, reason, science, nature and spirtiual faith.


I guess I am more a science and logic type along with the force of nature. It's a case of what my interest are, and I am the science type. 






> . . .Empericist  (J/K)  
> 
> Doc


Don't you insult me with big words, even if they are partially true.  :Laugh out loud:  
I think isayhello san has raised some good points as well.  :Wavey:  

PS: I thought you said you wouldn't reply to these post as they are hypocritical? Who needs Maciamo to argue against you?  :Smiling:

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## Mycernius

> I'm going to feel stupid about this, so please don't bash me 100%. Couldn't gods be a product of drugs like opium and other early drugs? It's silly to think that there are deitys watching over us all, but have become silent over the years


I once told a Mormon that Joseph Smith could have been stoned when he saw the Angel Moroni. He accepted it in good grace. I was amazed

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## Shas

Mormons & Jehovas Whitnesses are awesome  :Laugh out loud:  (just kidding!)

Ithink god is a man made concept to unite, control and educate people (with morals) rather than a real beeing. I think that because every country, culture ethinicity etc has produced an own religion somewhere in time and on the earth.


what thor said bout deities watching us: Yeah thats true God did so much 2000 years ago but then remained silent

hmmm

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## Doc

> I've always wondered what the religious extremists would say if aliens arrived on earth. Probably that they are Satans minions come to corrupt man.


There's a video game called NARC where you get to bust people like that. Religious extremists that is. It's pretty funny! :Laughing:  

Extremist: "You're going to burn in Hell!"
You after you bust the extremist: "You have the right to shut your dumbass up." :Laughing: 




> I've had to defend myself to a lot of Jesus freaks in the past. They've got a tendency to quote a lot from the Bible if they get stuck, I have to use science and logic. I used to work with a convert to JW for 5 years. This tends to focus the mind.


When I get stuck with those types of people I use Kung Fu like Robert Stack in the movie Airplane. :Laughing: 




> Our survival trait is our bigger brain and intelligence. Being a weaker animal you have to find some way to defend yourself against stronger animals. This has been seen in chimps against baboons. A chimp will used a weapon to defend itself. It uses it's intelligence to overcome a stronger foe. It should be more survival of the intelligent. See the Darwin Awards


Don't remind me. We say we're the smartest yet there are more stupid people in this world than I can count! Seriously who feeds their kid pestiside because they ate ants? Or how about somebody trying to rob a gun store, with off duty cops in it? Damn the stupidity of some people just amazes me.




> I didn't say God controlled your life. I implied that the religious say that it is gods will if something happens. No, that is nature. You strike me as more spiritual than God obsessed.


Pragmatist = ME :Smiling: 




> I guess I am more a science and logic type along with the force of nature. It's a case of what my interest are, and I am the science type.


Empericist  :Okashii:   :Smiling:  




> Don't you insult me with big words, even if they are partially true.  
> I think isayhello san has raised some good points as well.  
> 
> PS: I thought you said you wouldn't reply to these post as they are hypocritical? Who needs Maciamo to argue against you?


Maciamo is a cynic and a skeptic.  :Okashii:  I think that's reason enough.  :Smiling:  

Doc :Ramen:  :Joyful:

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## alexriversan

statues and temples are man-made artifacts.

as far as i have understood, shintoism is about to see the natural forces as "gods". somehow true, as they nourish us humans, and they are not inanimate.

many religions (like christianity) are simply death cults, supporting a global end by various efforts. like to teach small children about cruel crucification punishment. a large part of the new testament is about the judgement procedure, which takes tree days. *this is my personal perception.*

 :Smiling:   :Smiling:   :Smiling:

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## Pararousia

> You people hate the hypocrisy of organized religion, and come to the conclusion that there's nothing there. However, you are adamant about having free will (like people with religion do); that you think there's not a power in the entire universe that can stop you. But in reality, you know there is something there. You're just too scared to admit it. Thinking that there is would make you question life and the order of things. It would cause chaos in your life and routines, and you don't want that. So you choose to believe in nothing hoping that you're right, and that everything will be okay. Humanity is better suited on it's own than with a god. To bad it doesn't work out that way.


Doc, it takes ALOTTA faith to be an atheist!  :Laugh out loud:  

Loved your rants!  :Bravo:

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## NotUrHero

I think spirits exists. They can be bad, good, more or less powerful. But no God, Satan, Heaven or Hell.

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## Salento

... “doubt” is what God uses to test us ... a leap of faith is the solution!

If you grew up Catholic and you want to be worthy of Heaven you have to believe and follow the Dogma, ... and it's not optional.

If you are not Catholic, to have access to Paradise you just have to be a good person.

It is easier for a non-Catholic to go to Heaven than a Catholic, ... because Catholics have already been exposed to the “truth” and they have no excuses.

... the Nuns told me, many many years ago :)

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## ΠΑΝΑΞ

> ... “doubt” is what God uses to test us ... a leap of faith is the solution!
> 
> If you grew up Catholic and you want to be worthy of Heaven you have to believe and follow the Dogma, ... and it's not optional.
> 
> If you are not Catholic, to have access to Paradise you just have to be a good person.
> 
> It is easier for a non-Catholic to go to Heaven than a Catholic, ... because Catholics have already been exposed to the “truth” and they have no excuses.
> 
> ... the Nuns told me, many many years ago :)


That is a statement...


For many reasons the thinkers -in deep time exelixis process- decide to recognize two options
for decoding the human evolution from philosohical aspect and in extend to historiography and
social sciences in general, and those are the "tragic' and the "eschatologic" one.

The Hellenic pre christian cosmoideal and the prontestantic iluminative messianism.

At the first one -shortly, The world move in a circle, similarities with Brahmanism and versions of 
polytheist religions at the wider region is obvious. The world move in conflict with the Heraklitean (polemos) war
as father creator and the Hesiodian (Eris) quarrel. There will never be peace.
Kratos (state) and his sister Bia (violence) is the pillars of the hellenic cosmopolitan phaenomenon.
There is Hybris and blasphemery against divine order, which gods punish and often revenge, but there is not paradise or hell
for those who challenge or worship them. 

At the messianistic ones: The world extend in a straight line in constantly progress. At this option
the monotheistic authority have a plan and everything is under control. The deterministic frame of the world could explained
in terms of causes and reasons. There is hell and paradise here and out of this place, but at the end the world will be better.
The messianistic option rely -mostly- on the judaism theological tradition. 

I personally percieve -any of that kind questions- with heart.

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## ΠΑΝΑΞ

> I personally percieve -any of that kind questions- with heart.


Well, actually I wish to...  :Disappointed:

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## don_joe

Gods and spirits were always a way to explain the unexplainable. In our past we had many of those, cause we didn't understand our environment. The gods changed according to our perception, from animals as we lived in forests to pantheons of gods of trade, forging and smithing etc., to only one omnipotent god. So what is next? Now we understand much more and we have science and reasoning in the meanwhile. Gods and spirits continuously lose their importance. My family was religious, I was traditionally raised that way but at some point I couldn't take fairytales and anthrophomorphic divine creatures literally and seriously any more. I am an atheist, I don't believe or feel any presence of gods or spirits. There will always be something that we don't understand but the history proved that it has nothing to do with the supernatural.

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## Tamakore

When I was a child, I thought as a child. My parents and grandparents could answer all my questions and explain the world. I thought they knew everything. But when I became a man, I put away childish thoughts. I realized my elders didn't know everything, and that the best explanation of the universe came from science.

I think religions arose from a childish nostalgia for all-knowing, all-powerful parent figures. Departed parents and grandparents became deified as sky father, earth mother and other personified forces of nature. Ancestor worship developed into the various religions we see today. For thousands of years they satisfied the people's thirst for explanation. Then science came along and produced an evidence-based universal knowledge system that cruelly exposed the limitations of supernatural explanatory systems.

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## leperrine

God is the eternal imaginary parent that hinders you from taking personal responsibility.

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## EV13SON

I can't help but look at it like the ancients who described everything being brought into existence with a single word, ie frequency. I'm all for the idea that humans need to continue and search for the meaning and origins behind everything but not to get hung up on dogma that seeks to destroy one another over differing opinions.

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