# Humanities & Anthropology > History & Civilisations >  Was Columbus of royal Polish descent?

## Tomenable

http://culture.pl/en/article/the-tru...s-polish-roots




> *The Truth behind Christopher Columbus’s Polish Roots 
> 2016/09/02*
> 
> Manuel Rosa, a Portuguese historian, claims that the man who discovered America was not of Genoese origin as is commonly believed, but descended from a Polish King. Culture.pl investigates his hypothesis.
> 
> *The twelve-toed king*
> 
> It is told that 15th-century Polish King Władysław III had six toes on each foot. He was also the son of the great Polish king Władysław Jagiełło, who defeated the Teutonic Order in the famous battle of Grunwald, and ruled over a mighty empire that ranged from the Baltic to the Black Sea. He ascended the Polish throne in 1434 and received Hungarian crown in 1440 to boot. As King of Hungary he waged war against the Ottoman Empire and died, at the age of 20, in the 1444 Battle of Varna, a crucial episode of the conflict. The fight was lost by the Hungarians and their allies and the king himself was slain on the field after leading a charge into the enemy’s ranks. However, the ruler’s body was never formally identified, a strange occurrence considering his unusual feet. This led to speculation that the monarch actually survived and that the accounts and stories about his death were untrue. According to some, after the lost battle the baffled king travelled to the Portuguese island of Madeira in the Atlantic Ocean, where he lived incognito as Henrique Alemao (Henry the German) for the rest of his days.
> 
> ...


Check also this book review:

https://indiereader.com/2016/10/lear...-untold-story/

They mention that a DNA investigation is planned. It should be pretty easy to distinguish a Jagiellonian descendant from a son of an Italian craftsman, both based on autosomal DNA and on Y-DNA.

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## MarkoZ

To save everyone's time: no.

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## LeBrok

Tomenable, you are gullible again and believe in miracles. Even if something makes you feel better, it doesn't make it true. It think if falls under confirmation bias.

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## Angela

Really? Based on what Vallicanus said, I thought he must have been a Lebanese of ancient Phoenician stock. After all, as he so helpfully pointed out, every European and especially every Italian accomplishment was actually the product of Near Easterners.

I personally somewhat favor alien origin, maybe the moons of Saturn.

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## Pax Augusta

Manuel Rosa is not even a historian, he works in IT (Information technology). 




> * MANUEL ROSA is a Portuguese-American historian and author who emigrated from the Azores to the Boston area in 1973 with his parents. He employed his early professional life as a graphic artist working on books and national magazines including The Atlantic Monthly and Boston Magazine. He is also a recipient of the 1976 Boston Globe’s Art Merit Award.
> 
> Beginning in the mid 1990s he became a leading expert in the digital artwork field and was a consultant to Prentice Hall Publishing. In the year 2000, he began a new career in IT with Lockheed Martin Corporation, contracted with the National Institute of Environmental Health Sciences where his professionalism and high standards of quality earned him Lockheed Martin’s Lightning Award, in 2002. He is currently employed by Duke University Medical Center. He is currently employed by Duke University Medical Center.*


.

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## Yetos

The name Colombus exist only in two place in Earth, Torino and Χιος Chios 
*Κολοβος* means the one with 'cut' tail, trancated, tailless and also is alternative of roe-deer, and generally deers and antilopes
*Koλομπο* (κοlompo) is also the dwell behind the port of Chania Crete,
also Kολυμβω *Κοlumpo* means swimmer.

that is island of Chios, which was Genoua's colony at that times,

in his letters to *Donna Joanna του Torres* he reveals his origins
*but his was born in Genoua,* but not in the place that is considered as his home,
his real home collapsed at 1700 and above is build a monastery,

*Taviani* (of Colompus time)also mention his love for Chios,
*AND HE IS THE ONLY WEST EUROPEAN THAT WAS ACCEPTED TO THE TOWER OF ΙΟΥΣΤΙΝΙΑΝΗΣ ΜΠΑΝΚΑΣ.
*a noble of Constantinoupolis court, which means that Colompus was from Noble family nearby the throne of Byzantium,

*Ruth Wolper* found at 1972 Pyrgi Chios island the Colompos villa, and the marmor plate (θυρεος) at the door which has writen the name Kολομβος is from 1440 AD,
same time is also the name at episcopal (bishop's) matrix of habitatnts,
beside Colompus signature was* Χροferens Colompus of terra ruba* (tera rumba is a coastal small valley at south of Chios island)

the name Kolombos still exist at Chios island, possibly 1 male escape the Chios Disaster/massacre at Greek revolt at 1821.

PS
besides if it true, America was discovered at 500 AD.  :Grin: 


Both RuTh Wolper and Δ Σισιλιανος who made wide search notice that all his written are in Greek, especially at MAGO MUNDI his favorite book.
in fact by Colompos letter to Donna JUanna of Torrens Wolper and Σισιλιανος believe that he might comed from Con/polis nobility and was a Δισυπατος (emperror Palaiologos family relative)

*Certain is the name exists at Chios island before Genoua, and exist even today.
and his title is a land at Chios island,
and Born at Genoua,
and he was not son of weaver's but sailor's family noble,
and that is not his house, the house he was born is little distance nearby a monastery build at 1710 about.*

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## Angela

And the hits just keep on a coming. Anyone else? There have to be some other nationalities that want to get into the act besides the Poles, the Greeks, and the Catalans? :)

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## Yetos

> And the hits just keep on a coming. Anyone else? There have to be some other nationalities that want to get into the act besides the Poles, the Greeks, and the Catalans? :)



*Chios island,

under Genouates (Genovese) control from 1346 to 1566

sorry it is true, 

*L'8 giugno 1363, l'imperatore bizantino Giovanni V Paleologo, conferisce i titoli di Re, Despota e Principe di Chio, ai seguenti nobili patrizi genovesi: Nicolò de Caneto de Lavagna, Giovanni Campi, Francesco Arangio, Nicolò di San Teodoro, Gabriele Adorno (doge di Genova dal 1363 al 1370), Paolo Banca, Tommaso Longo, Andriolo Campi, Raffaello de Forneto, Luchino Negro, Pietro Oliverio e Francesco Garibaldi e Pietro di San Teodoro. Con il conferimento di questi titoli, questi maonesi, avevano il dominio su: Chio, Samo, Enussa, Santa Panagia e Focea.
Il dominio della Repubblica di Genova si concluse nel 1566, dopo un lungo e sanguinoso assedio da parte dell'Impero Ottomano. In quell'anno nell'isola di Chio vi erano 12000 Greci ortodossi ed oltre 2600 Genovesi cattolici (ossia un quinto del totale della popolazione era "latino")[2]: vi era parlato un dialetto coloniale genovese (il Chiotico).

Besides Colompus at his epistoles writes: *I am not the first captain of my family, from Colon (le Jeune) it is my name*

and *both his son Ferdinard and Bartholomeo Las Casas* (a historian monk the times of Colompus) say about his connection with Palaiologos family* (Γεωργιος Παλαιολογος Δισυπατος,* the exiled prince who become pirate as *Colon le Jeune*)

historian Taviani also mentions Chios island,

besides if he was born at 1451 and was a weaver till his 23 (1474!!!) the story is wrong, atopon. (forty years in prison he writes at 1500).

he knew excellent Greek Latin and Spanish at 14!!!!!! and secrets of maths and astronomy that even admirals do not know at 23 !!!!!! *with out entering sea* !!!!!

*his signature* 


Not only
how come he married a Portoguese nobility if he was just a weaver's son? *his nobility was given by Italians at 20 may 1493* 
and how come his brother Bartholomeos until 1492 lived as famous cartographer (needs very good maths) at Henry 7th court and at Louis Versailles Paris?

so what Colompus say about his origin
as also that he was at Chios at 1463 with Ship ROXANA and with Jiovani Di Negro and Nicola Spinola and not at 1474 
and after he become Colompus of terra ruba (valley south of Pyrgi Chios)

the only corect that fits with what he himshelf, his son and other historians wrote 
*is that Colompus was born or raised at Genova* but at 1436-9, possibly to hide him, and his family exist at Chios as the villa has the mark and name from 1440,
*visited Chios* at 1462-3, and was *noble* and educated and *pirate comrade with Colon le Jeune* (Γεωργιος Παλαιολογος)

*sory, it not a hit under the belt,
it is the missing link of his story, that we did not ever heared

*if you think that all the above are incorrect then sorry they are true

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## LABERIA

Come on. This thread remember me this:


*My Big Fat Greek Wedding- Give me any word and I show you the greek root*

But there is the sequel:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Big_Fat_Greek_Wedding_2

_Gus has ridiculously convinced himself that he is a direct descendant of Alexander the Great and wants an online ancestry site to confirm this. 
At the wedding reception, Gus receives a note from the ancestry site verifying that he is indeed a descendant of Alexander the Great. 
_

Hahahahahaha.

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## LeBrok

No, no, he was Canadian.  :Laughing:

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## Yetos

> Come on. This thread remember me this:
> 
> 
> *My Big Fat Greek Wedding- Give me any word and I show you the greek root*
> 
> But there is the sequel:
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Big_Fat_Greek_Wedding_2
> 
> _Gus has ridiculously convinced himself that he is a direct descendant of Alexander the Great and wants an online ancestry site to confirm this. 
> ...



*you wanted or not* 

*the house of at Chios island is repaired by EU arcaiologists with EU money since was damaged by earthquake* 
*as Οικια Κολομβου 1440 with EU flag

*


now go back to read some childish propaganda
and let your irony 
you attack me again 

I guess first time you hear names of pirates
or you see such a plate !!!!!!

*it SAYS* 

*KOLOMBO'S HOU**SE
**

*if you can see it
*So now you can drink back the poison and irony you served*  :Laughing: *
Chears 
*

Oh plz NO No do not turn to Green colour!!! hate and anger are bad 
especially when the other is telling the truth


_A sinistra la firma di Colombo prima del 1492, a destra la firma da "Ammiraglio" al servizio della Corona di Castiglia.



_

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## Yetos

> No, no, he was Canadian.



any proof?*​*

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## Yetos

*Tesi Sulla nascita a Chios di Cristoforo Colombo*

La presenza, non la nascita, a Chios di Cristoforo Colombo è certa, egli soggiornò a Chios per più di un anno ospite nel 1474 all’età di circa venti anni, ospite da Angelo Giustiniani Banca, figlio di: Andreolo Banca (1385-1456), autore della storia in versi latini della guerra contro Venezia del 1431, amico del Papa Eugenio IV. 
La tesi “Chiota” della nascita di Cristoforo Colombo, non sarebbe in ogni caso contraria alla sua genovesità, essendo Chios all’epoca (è già da un secolo) possedimento Genovese amministrato dalla Maona dei Giustiniani. Azzardato sarebbe dire che sia greco nel senso etimologico moderno. 
La tesi è sostenuta in particolare dallo studioso Ruth G. Durlacher-Wolper (Christophoros Columbus: A Byzantine Prince from Chios, Greece. The New World Museum, San Salvador, Bahamas. 1982) , direttore del New World Museum di San Salvador.
 
La teoria della sua nascita nell’isola di Chios è una delle tante ipotesi che si rincorrono intorno al motivo per cui è documentata la presenza di Colombo nell'isola per circa due anni, quando il navigatore era poco più che ventenne. 
Quel che è certo è che Chios ha rappresentato per Cristoforo Colombo la prima grande avventura in mare, la prima lunga navigazione, partendo da Savona il 25 maggio 1474 secondo alcuni storici, da Noli un anno prima secondo altri. A Chios Colombo era andato a cercare fortuna, a trovare una sua strada autonoma dagli affari di famiglia legati alla tessitura. E il commercio più redditizio del sito era quello del mastice. Ne parlò lo stesso navigatore nel suo giornale di bordo il 12 novembre 1492 quando, a Cuba, credette di aver trovato il lentisco, la pianta da cui si ricava la mastica: _ma quanto alla resina del lentisco essa è di grande pregio poiché non se ne trova che nell’isola di Scio. Ove credo, se la memoria non mi inganna, che ne ricavino per un valore di 50.000 ducati._ 
Come abbiamo detto, Cristoforo Colombo nacque vicino a “terra rossa” o “campo rosso”, termine assai frequente nell’isola di Chios per indicare il tipico colore della terra. 
Colombo sottolinea che il soggiorno nel Levante lo aveva ispirato in prima linea: attraverso le conversazioni con greci, ebrei e mori eruditi fu stimolato verso lo studio della cosmografia. Da questo momento in poi è sorta in me la curiosità di esplorare il mondo. 
La firma di Colombo "Xro-Ferens" Christophoros è scritto in greco-latino o Bizantino e si firma scrivendo Chios con la “X” greca. Inoltre il nome di “Cape Maysi” a Cuba si usano le lettere greche di Alpha and Omega. 
Altri intriganti elementi, ma non gli unici, sono il fatto che il navigatore conoscesse la produzione del mastice, esclusiva di Chios, e calcolasse le distanze percorse con una "misura segreta" di origine greca utilizzata, all'epoca, solo nell'Egeo. 
Il figlio di Cristoforo Colombo, Ferdinando, scrive che proviene da una terra di marinai, ma che la sua famiglia di origine Genovese aveva una lunga storia nel commercio delle stoffe. Avevano vissuto a Genova e da li egli scrive al padre, ma anche nel testamento di Colombo non si fa menzione di una casa a Genova. 
la marineria genovese di Chios era rinomata e riconosciuta fin dal XV secolo. 
La teoria "greca" si lega a quella che afferma che Colombo in realtà fosse un principe bizantino (vedi in inglese: *Cristoforo Colombo, fu un principe Bizantino?* ). A Chios esiste il villaggio di Pyrgi che si dice un tempo si dice che gli abitanti chiamavano "Colombus" (KOLOMVOS). Sicuramente qualcuno del suo equipaggio nella prima spedizione verso l'America era Chiota. Lo stesso Colombo, cita molte volte nel suo giornale di bordo verso l’America l’isola di Chios, ricordiamo inoltre che non scriveva e parlava Italiano anche se a tal epoca non esisteva ancora una lingua nazionale come tale (diversi documenti in “The four Voyages of Columbus”. Hakluyt Society. London, 1930.) 
L’indizio che fa pensare a Colombo come un principe bizantino è quello che negli scritti tra il figlio Ferdinando e lo spagnolo Bartolomeo Las Casas. 
Di Cristoforo Colombo si conservano relativamente pochi documenti autografi; inoltre, se conveniamo con F. Streicher quando considera che i due punti davanti alla X e il nesso di questa X con l'abbreviazione indicano che la firma non è autentica, allora dovremo escludere i testi VI, XIII, XLIV, LIX e le annotazioni al "Ptolemeo" della Accademia della Storia di Madrid. In ogni caso, gran parte degli scritti colombiani, tra cui quelli di maggior spessore, sono giunti fino a noi grazie a copie che dobbiamo, nella stragrande maggioranza dei casi, alla penna di un'altra figura insigne: fra' Bartolomé de Las Casas. Questo fatto richiede un chiarimento. Las Casas e Diego Colombo, il primogenito, si conobbero alla Espanola, dove quest'ultimo era giunto come Ammiraglio nel 1509. Subito tra i due si stabilì una reciproca simpatia. Negli scritti dei due, si parla che Bartolomeo Las Casas "ha navigato con il mio parente Colon il giovane, il greco, il pirata”. Colon il giovane era membro di una delle più imporatni famiglie Bizantine, quella dei Palaeologi. Giorgio Palaeologus Disipatos e anche conosciuto come “Giorgio il Greco”, tornato pirata dopo la caduta di Costantinopoli nel 1453. 
Credo che questa deduzione sia comunque falsa in quanto a partire dal 1475 un altro comandante di flotta si aggiunge alla guardia di Colombo: Gorge Paleologue, il quale era chiamato anche Colombo il Giovane. Il re francese Luigi XI nel 1473 aveva dovuto farlo arrestare per istruirlo a diventare il comandante della flotta francese (Roncière 1914, S. 377). Hernando Colón scrive che successivamente Cristoforo Colombo navigò„ per lungo tempo nella società di Colombo il Giovane “Questi fu nominato il ’Giovane’ per differenziarlo dal suo famigerato omonimo (Guillaume de Casenove) George Plaologue, che portava anche il soprannome di "Bissipato" o "il Greco“ nato dalla dinastia regnante bizantina dei Paleologi). Poiché si conoscono i discendenti dell’ultimo imperatore bizantino, egli proveniva da quella linea secondaria che apparteneva alla contea del Monferrato, a nord di Genova. Colombo il Giovane viene menzionato negli atti segreti veneziani spesso insieme a "omplices, colligati“ e "servidori“ , di quando in quando si parla anche di un certo Nicolò o Giovanni Gringo, altri due bizantini che allora si trovavano al servizio della Francia (Salvagnini, 1894, p. 176). 
Colombo viene dal nome Colon, come usualmente si faceva chiamare Cristoforo Colombo. Questa provenienza spiega (per l’autore) anche perchè Colombo scriveva in Greco-latino (anche se, e questo lo dico io, era abbastanza usuale per i Genovesi di Chios scrivere in franchi otico: il greco con i caratteri latini). 
Questi fatti sono le principali argomentazioni di Ruth G. Durlacher-Wolper per dimostrare l’identità greca di Cristoforo Colombo: 

1) la firma di Colombo "Xpo-Ferens" (Christophoros), è in greco-latino (Bizantino). 
2) Colombo scrive di Chios con la “X” greca (Xios) 
3) Colombo rimarca l’angolo delle sue lettere con la lettera greca “X” per “Xios” o per “Xpo-Ferens”, il suo nome 
4) Il nome dato da Colombo di “Cape Maysi” a Cuba e scritto con le lettere greche di "Alpha e Omega." 
5) Colombo non ha mai chiesto agli “Italiani” navi o aiuto anche quando ne aveva bisogno e mai gli “Italiani” gli ne hanno dato. 
6) Colombo non ha mai parlato o scritto in Italiano. 
7) Colombo riportava a margine note in greco nel suo libro più caro “Imago Mundi” del Cardinale Pierre d'Ailly. 
8) Colombo era chiamato appunto Genovese perchè Chios era un dominio Genovese 
9) Colombo chiamava se stesso e firmava i documenti come: "Columbus de Terra Rubra" (Colombo della Terra Rossa), perché è rossa la terra della mastikora nel sud di Chios. 
10) Colombo si appoggiava al Banco di San Giorgio come gli altri Chioti genovesi perchè: a) Chios era una colonia genovese, b) Chios era Genovese dal 1346 
11) Colombo celava la sua vera identità perchè temeva di essere ucciso dai Turchi dopo la caduta di Costantinopoli (aggiungerei che erano Chioti i soldati genovesi al seguito di Giovanni Giustiniani Longo generale nella difesa di Bisanzio) 
12) Colombo si presentava chiamandosi "Colon," e scriveva che aveva nagivato con parenti di sangue reale che avevano questo nome. 
13) Colombo scrisse due “libri di calcoli” sulle misure geografiche di San Salvador. Colombo afferma che quello “vero“ era in greco, quello “falso” in latino. L’autore li mostra scritti in greco " affermando che era la sua lingua ufficiale. 
14) Ferdinando Colombo suo figlio, non trovò traccia degli antenati del padre negli archivi di Genova e scrisse di non essere in grado di trovare la casa in cui viveva



photo of house

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## Pax Augusta

> The name Colombus exist only in two place in Earth, Torino and Χιος Chios 
> *Κολοβος* means the one with 'cut' tail, trancated, tailless and also is alternative of roe-deer, and generally deers and antilopes
> *Koλομπο* (κοlompo) is also the dwell behind the port of Chania Crete,
> also Kολυμβω *Κοlumpo* means swimmer.
> 
> that is island of Chios, which was Genoua's colony at that times.


Colombo is most likely one of the most common surnames in North-west Italy.

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## Milan.M

Yetos then trough Palaiologos we can claim share on him hehehe,since on mother side they were descent of Dejanovic,i know nothing about Columbus origin,but i will agree that he is Genoese,hence Italian even if there is posibility that he immigrated from somewhere else.

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## Angela

Gentlemen, can we please try not to get into another discussion based on unreliable sources and unreliable facts? Also, check your claims for accuracy before you make them.

This is the distribution of the surname "Colombo" in Italy. For people who are apparently not very conversant with Italian geography, the area of highest concentration is not Torino, and not even the region of Piemonte. 

http://www.gens.info/italia/it/turis...ombo&x=27&y=13


Ed. The area with the intense band of circles reaching into the sea is *GENOVA.*

The ten most common surnames in Italy:
*According to the site Gens [1], the following are the most common surnames in Italy:*

Rossi.Russo.Ferrari.Esposito.Bianchi.Romano.*Colombo.*Ricci.

Is there by any chance a full moon tonight?

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## davef

Christopher Columbus was a ruthless pirate who abused native Americans. We should boycott his holiday and I support the native Americans' efforts to tarnish his memory.

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## Fire Haired14

> Christopher Columbus was a ruthless pirate who abused native Americans. We should boycott his holiday and I support the native Americans' efforts to tarnish his memory.


Alexander the Great, Genghis Khan, and countless other admired historical figures did horrible things. That doesn't mean we shouldn't admire them. Columbus should be remembered and I have no problem with a Columbus day because his discovery of America changed world history like few other events in history. Schools should teach the horrible things he did and why he's so important to world history.

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## Yetos

> Gentlemen, can we please try not to get into another discussion based on unreliable sources and unreliable facts? Also, check your claims for accuracy before you make them.This is the distribution of the surname "Colombo" in Italy. For people who are apparently not very conversant with Italian geography, the area of highest concentration is not Torino, and not even the region of Piemonte. http://www.gens.info/italia/it/turis...ombo&x=27&y=13Ed. The area with the intense band of circles reaching into the sea is *GENOVA.*The ten most common surnames in Italy:*According to the site Gens [1], the following are the most common surnames in Italy:*
> Rossi.Russo.Ferrari.Esposito.Bianchi.Romano.*Colombo.*Ricci.
> Is there by any chance a full moon tonight?


Come on Russo It is very common in Greece especcialy at Megle Aromani populationsDemi Russos

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## bicicleur

> Christopher Columbus was a ruthless pirate who abused native Americans. We should boycott his holiday and I support the native Americans' efforts to tarnish his memory.


sooner or later, what happened to the native Americans would happen, with or without Columbus

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## Angela

> sooner or later, what happened to the native Americans would happen, with or without Columbus


As it happened in Australia with the Aborigines, and also, as it happens, in Africa when the Bantu speakers came in contact with the Pygmies, and in East Asia, and on and on. Nor was the New World a peaceful paradise full of flower children. 

To be clear, I don't support brutality by anyone, and what has happened to these societies world-wide is a tragedy, but history can't be reduced to evil white men versus the rest of the world. It's dishonest and it's divisive and destructive. It is also, as you can see, how history is being taught in American schools.

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## Pax Augusta

> Christopher Columbus was a ruthless pirate who abused native Americans. We should boycott his holiday and I support the native Americans' efforts to tarnish his memory.


Then, you're abusing yourself the native Americans, because you live illegally in their homeland. We should all boycott all the people from the USA, including you.

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## Pax Augusta

> Come on Russo It is very common in Greece especcialy at Megle Aromani populationsDemi Russos


Come on, not only Colombo and all the Russos, everything in Italy is of Greek origin, even the Alps, the dogs, the horses, the trees and the rivers in Italy are of Greek origin. A populace of 10 million Greeks have generated 60 milion Italians in Italy and 140 milion Italians around the world.  :Laughing:

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## LeBrok

> As it happened in Australia with the Aborigines, and also, as it happens, in Africa when the Bantu speakers came in contact with the Pygmies, and in East Asia, and on and on. Nor was the New World a peaceful paradise full of flower children. 
> 
> To be clear, I don't support brutality by anyone, and what has happened to these societies world-wide is a tragedy, but history can't be reduced to evil white men versus the rest of the world. It's dishonest and it's divisive and destructive. It is also, as you can see, how history is being taught in American schools.


 You are right that we need to keep in mind historical societal norms to judge historic figures. However, we should be open about everything our heroes did in real life, without romanticizing everything about them. I think they would look more imperfect, more real, more human, more like us. So we know that though not perfect, this should stand in our ways to achieve something great in life. When we closely look at Indian "saint" Gandhi we will learn that he was a bit of a racist, at least on some occasions. Jesus was a pacifist, except his "communist, anti commerce" streak in the Temple, and he accepted slavery on few occasions, never spoke against it. Einstein wasn't a genius husband and a good father. Etc, etc.

I don't like superheroes. I like normal humans doing heroic things, standing above societal norms, dreaming big, improving the world.

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## Angela

> You are right that we need to keep in mind historical societal norms to judge historic figures. However, we should be open about everything our heroes did in real life, without romanticizing everything about them. I think they would look more imperfect, more real, more human, more like us. So we know that though not perfect, this should stand in our ways to achieve something great in life. When we closely look at Indian "saint" Gandhi we will learn that he was a bit of a racist, at least on some occasions. Jesus was a pacifist, except his "communist, anti commerce" streak in the Temple, and he accepted slavery on few occasions, never spoke against it. Einstein wasn't a genius husband and a good father. Etc, etc.
> 
> I don't like superheroes. I like normal humans doing heroic things, standing above societal norms, dreaming big, improving the world.


I totally agree, LeBrok. Given my temperament and my professional experiences, no one has to convince me that all human beings are flawed. Also, depending on the "type" of flaws, I also like my "heroes" better that way. One of my favorite people, and definitely my favorite American president, is Abraham Lincoln; I own more than a dozen biographies of him and I'm sure I'll buy more. Yet, he did things I find problematical, he suffered from severe depression at times, and on and on. It all just makes him more human, and more "relatable". 

There's also a difference between recognizing someone's achievements and thinking of him or her as a "hero". I recognize Columbus' achievement; he's in no sense a "hero" for me. That's of course my own subjective judgment.

For the board:

Whenever the topic of the encounter between Europeans and Native Americans comes up, I immediately think of these two films. They're both excellent.

Black Robe is set in Canada. The whole film is on youtube.
This is the trailer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zS6bmm921G8

The Mission is set in South America. For anyone who doubts that what was done to Native Americans was horrendous, just watch this movie. This can also be watched in its entirety on youtube, but this is the trailer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HU14R9hbUFc

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## Sile

> *Chios island,
> 
> under Genouates (Genovese) control from 1346 to 1566
> 
> sorry it is true, 
> 
> *L'8 giugno 1363, l'imperatore bizantino Giovanni V Paleologo, conferisce i titoli di Re, Despota e Principe di Chio, ai seguenti nobili patrizi genovesi: Nicolò de Caneto de Lavagna, Giovanni Campi, Francesco Arangio, Nicolò di San Teodoro, Gabriele Adorno (doge di Genova dal 1363 al 1370), Paolo Banca, Tommaso Longo, Andriolo Campi, Raffaello de Forneto, Luchino Negro, Pietro Oliverio e Francesco Garibaldi e Pietro di San Teodoro. Con il conferimento di questi titoli, questi maonesi, avevano il dominio su: Chio, Samo, Enussa, Santa Panagia e Focea.
> Il dominio della Repubblica di Genova si concluse nel 1566, dopo un lungo e sanguinoso assedio da parte dell'Impero Ottomano. In quell'anno nell'isola di Chio vi erano 12000 Greci ortodossi ed oltre 2600 Genovesi cattolici (ossia un quinto del totale della popolazione era "latino")[2]: vi era parlato un dialetto coloniale genovese (il Chiotico).
> 
> ...


Maybe you can find more information on the catalan company in Chios and Asia minor.................story is colombus family line was part of this catalan company.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catala..._in_Asia_Minor

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_Company

They where replaced in the area by the 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navarrese_Company

His family then went back to Barcelona, but by this time , the kingdom of Aragon gave their lands and titles to the duchy of Barcelona. moving forward, scholars state that columbus could not even speak or understand Genoese


After the berbers where cleared out of Spain..........the Castilian cortes of Isabella had many major issues with the catalan cortes of ferdinand , a division appeared ............ It got worse after Isabella died and Ferdinand tried to marry a Navarrese princess. Due to these bad feelings, the Catalans where the ones to hide Colombus/Colon identity by moving his family to Genoa ( early on ) and so prevent the Castilians to grap any glory that a "spaniard" discovered the new world.

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## Yetos

> Come on, not only Colombo and all the Russos, everything in Italy is of Greek origin, even the Alps, the dogs, the horses, the trees and the rivers in Italy are of Greek origin. A populace of 10 million Greeks have generated 60 milion Italians in Italy and 140 milion Italians around the world.




oh boy, give better numbers.

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## Yetos

> Gentlemen, can we please try not to get into another discussion based on unreliable sources and unreliable facts? Also, check your claims for accuracy before you make them.
> 
> This is the distribution of the surname "Colombo" in Italy. For people who are apparently not very conversant with Italian geography, the area of highest concentration is not Torino, and not even the region of Piemonte. 
> 
> http://www.gens.info/italia/it/turis...ombo&x=27&y=13
> 
> 
> Ed. The area with the intense band of circles reaching into the sea is *GENOVA.*
> 
> ...




Angela come on,

*only in my area Central Makedonia are more than 4500 males with name Russos.*
many of them are Armani mainly Mengle or towards Mengle, means Romans Latin-speakers with origin from ex-Yugoslavia Rumania and Hungary N Greece
others are Greeks from Russia, Crimea, others are just Russians who migrate,

his name is *Russo-poulos,* 


*can you tell me what he is?
Roman, Armani Megle, Armani Kutsuk, Armani Cin(que)zari, Italian, Greek from Peloponese, Greek from Russia, Russian, etc etc.*

search Forebears

http://forebears.io/surnames?q=Russos

it gives 7298 modern Greeks with this name,

and Rousos with 1 s gives 580 and Rossos gives 495 and Russis 1693
and Russias gives 353 to Italy,

JUST OPEN the map, PRESS the name,

*http://forebears.io/surnames/roussos*

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## LABERIA

> Come on, not only Colombo and all the Russos, everything in Italy is of Greek origin, even the Alps, the dogs, the horses, the trees and the rivers in Italy are of Greek origin. A populace of 10 million Greeks have generated 60 milion Italians in Italy and 140 milion Italians around the world.


Not everything. For example the river Po is from Albanian. Po in Albanian is yes. You see? There you go. You have robbed an Albanian river.

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## Yetos

> Maybe you can find more information on the catalan company in Chios and Asia minor.................story is colombus family line was part of this catalan company.
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catala..._in_Asia_Minor
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_Company
> 
> They where replaced in the area by the 
> 
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navarrese_Company
> ...



Sile
the man was accomodated for 2 years by *Giustiniani De Banca* family, maybe the biggest *Dogi* of Genouates (Genovese) Democracy,
If he was a simple weaver's son do you believe he would be accomodated so long? 

At Kerkyra -Corfu if you enter some pallazzos or Liston before the Francais occupation and your name was not at Libro d' oro, you could even face death penalty.
*even today the term Ποπολαρος POPOLAROS which is Italian word is used there and means all classes except nobles.

*he had Genovese citizenship and born and raised at Genoua, and also he used to dress himshelf as Genovese merchant,
*But Italian nobility was given to him at 1494.

*we could knew *Colompo's origin* when the Ispanians gave Diego (his son) citizenship and nobility, after 1500,
but I do not know if it was in purpose, or they did not knew, etc etc. *THEY DID NOT MENTIONED HIS EX-ORIGIN* (before the Ispanic one)

*Colompo's Religion, 
*At Chios island the Colombos had Orthodox priest, 
But Colombo was Catholic,
How come this happened,
searching History of Church at balkans and East Roman we know that after the great Schism created many sub-groups
some of them are saved even today Like ΟΥΝΙΑ *UNIA* which are typically with new calendar, but they follow the old calendar Greek Orthodox at shape language etc etc, but they praise the Pope,
after 1200 started a movement that is called *Ενωτικοι* Unificates, which desire the reunion of 2 churches,
*that effort created the 1438 council of Ferrara Florence* (Συνοδος Φερραρας Φλωρεντιας), *pope Eugenios IV*
After 1439 have turn to Catholicism for part of population from Balkans and East Empire, even to Syrrian Christians 
Chios and Psara were among them, 
as you see part of catholics in Greece are remnants of crusaders, emporion settlers, rulers etc etc.
and part is from that council, 1439
*at that council also participated Γεωργιος Παλαιολογος* or Colon le Jeune, or George the Greek, 
and his team and ambassadors were the first to be baptised Catholics, although Markos of Ephesos and rest of 700 left due to 'et fillio' (Filioque).
*that cost him an exile* because he did not kept the union of the 700 mission, 
*that is why Georgios is known as the exiled Byzantine priest.
Colombo's relatives probably were also at that Council,* if as some claim Georgios was not his father,

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## Angela

It's "tin foil hat" time, apparently. It's ok; it's a free "internet", and I'm trying to take a calmer, more detached approach and see the humor in some of these things. 

Yetos, that man couldn't look less Italian. :) You really should watch both of the "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" movies, and I say that as someone who in real life is very, very fond of Greek people. (And yes, I see a lot of similarities with Italians!)

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## arvistro

> No, no, he was Canadian.


He was actually an American, the very first American of European descent :)

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## Yetos

> It's "tin foil hat" time, apparently. It's ok; It's a free "internet", and I'm trying to take a calmer, more detached approach and see the humor in some of these things. 
> 
> Yetos, that man couldn't look less Italian. :) You really should watch both of the "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" movies, and I say that as someone who in real life is very, very fond of Greek people. (And yes, I see a lot of similarities with Italians!)





Hahaha, 
you see, 
by Term Rousso- surely he can be a Romano-Latin one, (Armani or Italian)

by Term -opoulos surely he is Peloponese Greek,

by meaning of Rousso he can be of Russian or Viking origin,


but she is Christina Roussou (surname male -os, female turns to possesive -ou) in Italian Russu.
she is a writer of Aromani Origin from Central Makedonia (towards Megle) from the town Naoussa that Romans used and developed and kept strong army.

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## Blanco

Columbus might been a Marrano/Jew?




> Recently, a number of Spanish scholars, such as Jose Erugo, Celso Garcia de la Riega, Otero Sanchez and Nicholas Dias Perez, have concluded that Columbus was a Marrano, whose survival depended upon the suppression of all evidence of his Jewish background in face of the brutal, systematic ethnic cleansing.
> Columbus, who was known in Spain as Cristóbal Colón and didn't speak Italian, signed his last will and testament on May 19, 1506, and made five curious -- and revealing -- provisions. 
> Two of his wishes -- tithe one-tenth of his income to the poor and provide an anonymous dowry for poor girls -- are part of Jewish customs. He also decreed to give money to a Jew who lived at the entrance of the Lisbon Jewish Quarter.
> On those documents, Columbus used a triangular signature of dots and letters that resembled inscriptions found on gravestones of Jewish cemeteries in Spain. He ordered his heirs to use the signature in perpetuity.
> According to British historian Cecil Roth's "The History of the Marranos," the anagram was a cryptic substitute for the Kaddish, a prayer recited in the synagogue by mourners after the death of a close relative. Thus, Columbus' subterfuge allowed his sons to say Kaddish for their crypto-Jewish father when he died. Finally, Columbus left money to support the crusade he hoped his successors would take up to liberate the Holy Land.

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## Lourenço Damas

Having read Manuel Rosa's book, which was just named BEST HISTORY BOOK of 2016 by Huffington Post, I just say I agree with Rosa. The history as we knew it was falsified and the guy who sailed in 1492 was never called COLUMBUS or COLOMBO. Historians really had it wrong on this one. Rosa spent 25 years of research and though some argue he is an IT guy at Duke, please realize Rosa's first book was published in 2006 after 15 years of research and the Duke site reads as Duke employee only after first book. 
There is a list of academics and history professors siding with Rosa in Portugal, USA and Poland. I was truly surprised by the amount of evidence presented in the book, which debunks once and for all the idea that Columbus, the wool weaver from Genoa we had accepted, was the same guy who sailed in 1492. A clear case of mistaken identity was made and Rosa unravels all of that in his book. 
I only have to make this final point, it is amazing with the amount of documentation available which points to the correct history that nobody else was able to debunk that Italian fairy tale before Rosa did it.
Soon the history books will have no choice but to be rewritten. Columbus was not Columbus and he was not Italian.
I ausgehst you read o Rosa's blog the reviews of his readers if you want more details. Especially the text by Dr. E. Lee Spence, Underwater Archaeologist
President, Sea Research Society, VP, International Diving Institute... nothing more I can say except the truth shall set everyone free and in my view, Rosa has uncovered the truth... www . columbus - book . com

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## Lourenço Damas

Yetis, Rosa also writes about this famous* (le Jeune)* _but I note that you have corrupted his name to Colon. Le Jeune (the Younger) was a "Colombo" not Colon.
The names of the two French pirates were Colombo "the Elder" and Colombo "the Younger" because when Muslims invaded Constantinople, Prince George Dissipates ran way to France where he became famous at sea battles and so they called him_ _ Colombo "the Younger" in honor of the other famous French sea fighter, Vice-Admiral of Normandy,_ Guillermo de Casanove, called Colombo because his ship was called "La Colombe".. 
But note that these two Frenchmen were in he service of the King of Portugal in 1476 when Columbus supposedly swam ashore from his sinking ship.
The Greek connection is only that Columbus was related to _Colombo "the Younger"_

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## Yetos

@ Damas

you are refferering to this from Vecinian chronicles

''« Colombo le Jeune, neveu (ou fils) de l'illustre pirate Colombo »''
or this? 

''« le fils de Colombo et Jean le Grec »'' 2 years after the death of Casanove


I suggest read my the post #13,

it is in Italian,
If you do not know, 
I can find an english translation,

Σισσιλιανος (D Sissiliano) believes that he was his son and hide him at Gevona, (sponsa imperialis)
it is a possible hypothesis, but an hypothesis,

besides generally if we read Colombus letters and rest, he could not been born at 1451, but earlier,
Prince George (the younger) was exiled from Palaiologos family at council of Ferrera-Florence not after 1453 but around 11438-1439, 10 years before Moameth enters Con/polis
search Samuel Eliot Morison work about the atopon that follows Las Casas and Ferdinard and Colompus himshelf notes, about dates,

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## Lourenço Damas

Huffington Post

*NON-FICTION** - HISTORY* Best Book of The Year 2016 -

*COLUMBUS—THE UNTOLD STORY*By Manuel Rosa
The Best of 2016

25 years of research has pieced together a stunning array of artifacts and data, from one end of Europe to another, from Asia, Africa and the Americas: a chapel ruin, a ceiling mural in a private palace, DNA test results, an impressive diversity of documents, keenly analyzed . . . and a sword, unearthed by a Bulgarian peasant, that found its way to a museum in Saint Petersburg. The study and comparison of carefully censored State archives also helped explain Columbus’ life -- hitherto enshrouded in the deceitful machinations of power politics, false identities, and false discoveries in the Age of Exploration. Myth has at last been separated from fact, exposing what actually transpired. Being extremely fond of writing memoirs, journals and letters, the man known as Columbus left a great deal of this overwhelming proof himself. Now, 523 years later, his writings assisted in his own undoing. Many other clues -- meant to be deciphered generations later, when the need for secrecy had passed -- have been painstakingly gathered and analyzed. Some were cryptically displayed in the details of portraiture and esoteric writings, others in the most obvious features of one of the greatest works of Spanish Baroque drama, on heraldry, on a gravestone, via signatures and pseudonyms. What emerges is the picture of a consummate and cunning double-agent, with a bold and grandiose agenda. Enter this 500-year-old labyrinth and discover the unimaginable: a medieval conspiracy so audacious, so massive, and so well executed that it fooled the world for half a millennium.

I am fascinated by your book! It is the most thoroughly researched book on the topic 
of the man the world knows as "Christopher Columbus" that I have ever read.
–  Robert Bilicki

www . 1492 . us . com

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## Tomenable

At least Obama is of royal Polish descent:

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...l=1#post500382

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## LeBrok

> At least Obama is of royal Polish descent:
> 
> http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads...l=1#post500382


Check Trump, I'm sure he is too. After all, he is so presidential/royal/golden. ;)

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## Pax Augusta

> Having read Manuel Rosa's book, which was just named BEST HISTORY BOOK of 2016 by Huffington Post,


Could you post the link to the Huffington Post's Best History Book of 2016?

The truth is costantly falsified, even by Manuel Rosa himself?

Manuel Rosa claims in his own website that his book has won "Best History Book of The Year 2016 - Huffington Post". 
But is it true?

https://columbusbook.blogspot.it/201...-2016.html?m=0

There is only one blog where Manuel Rosa's book has been cited, the IndieReader's blog hosted by the Huffington Post, but this blog does not reflect the opinion of the Huffington Post's editorial board, and IndieReader is quite distinct from Huffington Post.

The Best Self-Published Books of 2016 by IndieReader

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/indier..._13512048.html

So, stating that Manuel Rosa's book was named Best History Book of 2016 by Huffington Post, it's quite incorrect and misleading.

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## Sile

> Huffington Post
> 
> *NON-FICTION** - HISTORY* Best Book of The Year 2016 -
> 
> *COLUMBUS—THE UNTOLD STORY*By Manuel Rosa
> The Best of 2016
> 
> 25 years of research has pieced together a stunning array of artifacts and data, from one end of Europe to another, from Asia, Africa and the Americas: a chapel ruin, a ceiling mural in a private palace, DNA test results, an impressive diversity of documents, keenly analyzed . . . and a sword, unearthed by a Bulgarian peasant, that found its way to a museum in Saint Petersburg. The study and comparison of carefully censored State archives also helped explain Columbus’ life -- hitherto enshrouded in the deceitful machinations of power politics, false identities, and false discoveries in the Age of Exploration. Myth has at last been separated from fact, exposing what actually transpired. Being extremely fond of writing memoirs, journals and letters, the man known as Columbus left a great deal of this overwhelming proof himself. Now, 523 years later, his writings assisted in his own undoing. Many other clues -- meant to be deciphered generations later, when the need for secrecy had passed -- have been painstakingly gathered and analyzed. Some were cryptically displayed in the details of portraiture and esoteric writings, others in the most obvious features of one of the greatest works of Spanish Baroque drama, on heraldry, on a gravestone, via signatures and pseudonyms. What emerges is the picture of a consummate and cunning double-agent, with a bold and grandiose agenda. Enter this 500-year-old labyrinth and discover the unimaginable: a medieval conspiracy so audacious, so massive, and so well executed that it fooled the world for half a millennium.
> 
> ...


youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPJyr3EOLZI

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## Pratt

*Columbus of royal Polish descent? It sounds new.*

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## Pratt

So Columbus was anything but Genoese or Italian.

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## LABERIA

I believe that he was an italian. But i think that there is nothing strange if one day scholars decide that he was an Spaniard or an Portuguese. 

There is something funny. This surname Dissipates, is the surname of an Albanian medieval family from South. They are mentioned in medieval chronicles as Dysipati or Disipaties. They are considered to be the ancestors of the famous Shpata family. Yetos know very well who are Shpata family. 
But i want to make clear(because troolls are always waiting in ambush), that i am not claiming any Albanian ancestry for this famous sailor.

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## Yetos

Δις Υπατος = Δισυπατος = twice supreme consul = ultimate high rank in the court.

Emperor's council or Senate -highest counsil titles
Δισυπατος
Υπατος
Πρωτανθυπατος
Ανθυπατος

in Latin Ypatos is like ''altum consule''

οκ many family names keep as characteristic a title given to an ancestor

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## LABERIA

> Δις Υπατος = Δισυπατος = twice supreme consul = ultimate high rank in the court.
> 
> Emperor's council or Senate -highest counsil titles
> Δισυπατος
> Υπατος
> Πρωτανθυπατος
> Ανθυπατος
> 
> in Latin Ypatos is like ''altum consule''
> ...


Kostas Giakoumis, a greek scholar is the autor of this study:
Fourteenth-century Albanian migration and the ?relative autochthony? of the Albanians in Epeiros. The case of Gjirokaster - ResearchGate 



> ... and the second is letters of the Metropolitan of Naupaktos John Apokaukos to a certain George *Dysipati*, who was considered to be an ancestor of the famous *Shpata* family.(21) Furthermore, I suggest that names that appear in two acts of the Angevins of Naples dated 1304 (22) using the forms, Albos, *Spatos*, Catarucos, Bischesini, Aranitos, Lecenis, Turbaceos, Marchaseos, Scuras, Zeneuias, Bucceseos, Logoresc and Mateseos are either well-known, less-known or totally unknown names of Albanian clan leaders at that time. 
> 
> 
> 
> (20.) G. Tafel - G. Tomas (1856), 122.
> (21). N. Bees - E. Seferli, 'Unedierte Schriftstiicke aus der Kanzlei des Johannes
> Apokaukos', BN] 21 (1974), doc. 62. For views on this name as being ancestral to
> the name 'Shpata', see P. Xhufi (1994), 47 and note 132.
> (22). L. Thalloczy - K. Jirecek - M. Sufflay (1913), 166a, doc. 563 and 167-168,
> doc. 569.


In standard Albanian dy=two. In dialect forms, North, South, is also used di and not dy. 
In Albanian the words sword and ax are very similar. 
Shpatë = sword
Sëpatë = ax. 
So the surname could be translated in English Two swords or Two axes. 

Sorry for the of-topic.

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## Yetos

High counsil titles,

*Ύπατος* και *Δισύπατος* (Τιμητικός τίτλος Συγκλητικών), 
Ανθύπατος και Πρωτανθύπατος (Τιμητικός τίτλος Συγκλητικών),
*Σπαθάριος* και Πρωτοσπαθάριος (Τίτλος αποδιδόμενος στους μεγαλύτερους ιδιοκτήτες που υπηρετούσαν ως αξιωματικοί), 
Κονσουλάριος (Σύμβουλος),
Οφικιάλιος (Αξιωματούχος), 
Ποτεστάστος (Εξουσιοδοτημένος αξιωματούχος, εξουσιαστής, κυβερνήτης [potestas = δύναμη]) 
Χωροδεσπότης (Άρχοντας που εξουσιάζει μια περιοχή, φεουδάρχης).

anyway ΔισΥπατος was the title of George the Greek,
*his family name was Palaiologos,* so any chance with a family name Dysipati is exluded,
but both Spatos and Dysipatos sounds Byzantine titles to me, with Greek meaning

*about Disypatos family name* comes from late 9th century at Thessaloniki and Con/Polis as written at* Kletorologion by Philotheos*
by the seals that have been found Disypatos family Monks Bishops and Protospatharioi oρ spatharokandidatos, (πρωτοΣπαθαριοι and Σπαθαρο-candidates)
*
the first Disypatos Family name known with seal* is Θεοδωρος ο Στουδιτης Theodore the Studite from Con/polis who moved to Thessaloniki and the most famous 2 are Μανουηλ Οψαρας Δισυπατος and Gregorios Palamas or David Disypatos who also had ancestry from the Metochites of Strumnista (Kossovo e Metochia = Metohites) 
Disypatos Family turn against Laskaris for the thrown of Con/polis,

that 404 years before Naples of Giakoumis, even Before Maniakis and his revolt 

*you want me to believe Giakoumis of 2000 or Philotheos of 900?

*with all the respect, and the effort to stay gentle, due to our older argues,

Disypatos was a title of the Byzantines,
some family surnames keep the title given to one of their ancestors,
like ταγματαρχης major, καπετανιος captain, etc
it does not come Albanian Du sepate, but from Greek δις + Υπατος 
now if Dysipati is an Albanian family name mention at 1300 around and Naples,
as Giakoumis claim, and the connection with Byzantine nobilty of Disypatos family, I really do not know
*BUT* remember that Albanians were also Romans of the East Roman empire, 
I believe I made my myshelf and my believes clear,

----------

