# Population Genetics > Autosomal Genetics >  aDNA does not indicate Native American ethnicities but mtDNA is B2

## Duarte

Autosomal DNA (FTDNA and MyHeritage) does not indicate Native American ethnicities to me, but FTDNA mtDNA indicates haplogroup B2 to me. *B2 is one of five mitochondrial DNA's haplogroups found among the indigenous peoples of the Americas*, the others being A, C, D, and X.  :Thinking:

----------


## italouruguayan

Hi Duarte!
My mtDNA is A2, and in my case, MyOrigins gives me 19% Native American, while most Gedmatch calculators give me almost the same (18%). Perhaps your Native American ancestors are far away in time ...

----------


## Angela

After enough admixture, as italouruguayan says, the autosomal signature may be gone.

----------


## Duarte

Elvis Presley: mtHaplogroup: B. Very interesting video. This video is offered by FTDNA to all those who take the "Full Sequence" mitochondrial test. My mtHaplogroup (B2) is frequent in the Xavante tribe (Brazilian Amazon), of macro-jê ethnicity. Although my Amerindian percentage is less than 1% on my FTDNA autosomal DNA test (aDNA <1%), the Xavantes are Botucudo Indians, as were the Maxakalí, Krenak, Aranã e Xacriabá Indians, who were victims of genocide in the region where I was born, not existing here since 1750 (mid-eighteenth century). Interestingly the video reports that the most famous person in the world who belongs to Haplogroup B is none other than one of my favorite artists: Elvis Presley. 
"The Maxakalí, Krenak, Aranã and Xacriabá Indians lived in the region during the colonial period and were exterminated, leaving few traces for the population of Belo Horizonte" (Source: Portuguese Wikipedia). Also have to click the small play button in the bottom left corner of the video screen. It should work (Only in PC). 

https://www.familytreedna.com/mtdna-...e77c0001663344

In case of difficulties with the link posted above, the FTDNA video can be watched at the YouTube link below:




Y-Full mtHaplotree:

----------


## Salento

> Elvis Presley: mtHaplogroup: B. Very interesting video. This video is offered by FTDNA to all those who take the "Full Sequence" mitochondrial test. My mtHaplogroup (B2) is frequent in the Xavante tribe (Brazilian Amazon), of macro-jê ethnicity. Although my Amerindian percentage is less than 1% on my FTDNA autosomal DNA test (aDNA <1%), the Xavantes are Botucudo Indians, as were the Maxakalí, Krenak, Aranã e Xacriabá Indians, who were victims of genocide in the region where I was born, not existing here since 1750 (mid-eighteenth century). Interestingly the video reports that the most famous person in the world who belongs to Haplogroup B is none other than one of my favorite artists: Elvis Presley. 
> "The Maxakalí, Krenak, Aranã and Xacriabá Indians lived in the region during the colonial period and were exterminated, leaving few traces for the population of Belo Horizonte" (Source: Portuguese Wikipedia). Also have to click the small play button in the bottom left corner of the video screen. It should work (Only in PC). 
> 
> https://www.familytreedna.com/mtdna-...e77c0001663344
> 
> In case of difficulties with the link posted above, the FTDNA video can be watched at the YouTube link below:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 :Cool V:  You and Elvis are obviously Related :) 

... to the Ancestral Maternal line of the Magnificent People:

----------


## Duarte

> You and Elvis are obviously Related :) 
> 
> ... to the Ancestral Maternal line of the Magnificent People:


Wonderful video, Salento. Magnificent tribute to the indigenous peoples :)

----------


## Wheal

my gut feeling is that your B2 is from Iberia. My son's girlfriend is 50% new world and she scores 23% Iberian.

----------


## Regio X

> Elvis Presley: mtHaplogroup: B. Very interesting video. This video is offered by FTDNA to all those who take the "Full Sequence" mitochondrial test. My mtHaplogroup (B2) is frequent in the Xavante tribe (Brazilian Amazon), of macro-jê ethnicity. Although my Amerindian percentage is less than 1% on my FTDNA autosomal DNA test (aDNA <1%), the Xavantes are Botucudo Indians, as were the Maxakalí, Krenak, Aranã e Xacriabá Indians, who were victims of genocide in the region where I was born, not existing here since 1750 (mid-eighteenth century). Interestingly the video reports that the most famous person in the world who belongs to Haplogroup B is none other than one of my favorite artists: Elvis Presley. 
> "The Maxakalí, Krenak, Aranã and Xacriabá Indians lived in the region during the colonial period and were exterminated, leaving few traces for the population of Belo Horizonte" (Source: Portuguese Wikipedia). Also have to click the small play button in the bottom left corner of the video screen. It should work (Only in PC). 
> https://www.familytreedna.com/mtdna-...e77c0001663344
> In case of difficulties with the link posted above, the FTDNA video can be watched at the YouTube link below:
> 
> 
> Y-Full mtHaplotree:


Pretty cool, Duarte! 
And I didn't know Elvis had B2. Very interesting!

----------


## Duarte

> Pretty cool, Duarte! 
> And I didn't know Elvis had B2. Very interesting!


Thank you Regio. I was also surprised by the revelation. The King of rock, like me, has a very ancient indigenous ancestral great-grandmother. Very cool.

----------


## digital_noise

> my gut feeling is that your B2 is from Iberia. My son's girlfriend is 50% new world and she scores 23% Iberian.


That makes no sense. His B2 is likely Native, its just from so long ago that the Native admix has been bred out.

----------


## Wheal

I could be wrong @digital_noise, just a thought I had while reading the post... :Rolleyes:

----------


## Duarte

I strongly believe that my haplogroup B is Native American and came from a very old female indigenous ancestor who lived in the Jesuit Missions Region in Brazil, Paraguay and Argentina (16th and 17th centuries).
However, I found this very interesting article by Maciamo here in Eupedia talking about the presence of altaic mtDNA in European populations, including the typically native American mtHaplogroups A, B, C and D.
Among several interesting considerations, says Maciamo that Catalonia possess mtHaplogroup A and C, Vendée mtHaplogroup B. mtHaplogroup B has been found in the Rhône valley of France, a region also known for being a hotspot of Y-haplogroup Q with possible Hunnic connection.
Altaic people such as the Turks and Kurds possess mostly mtDNA B, C and G.
I believe it is worth reading:






> I have created a map showing the distribution of East & North Asian (Mongoloid) mtDNA haplogroups in Europe and the Middle East. This includes haplogroups A, B, C, D, E, F, G, M7, M8, Y and Z.
> 
> 
> 
> ANALYSIS:
> 
> *Western Europe*
> 
> Western Europe has the lowest percentage of East Asian haplogroups, with an average of 0.3%. No country has 0%, but the current data shows that Basques and Cantabrians have 0%. It is not surprising that Western Europeans should have less North/East Asian mtDNA than Central or East Europeans since they are geographically furthest from Asia. R1b men came from the Middle East before becoming Indo-European speakers in the Pontic Steppe and invading Europe. This isn't the case of R1a people who already had some Mongoloid mtDNA (and physical feature based on archaeology) in the Pontic-Caspian Steppe at least since the Neolithic, but more probably since the Palaeolithic.
> ...

----------


## jack456

Is it possible that bronze smelting was invented by G-L497 members of the Danube region near Romania/Ukraine and that the PIE.

----------


## Regio X

@Duarte
Interesting! Well, the odds are it's one of our Native Americans mtDNAs, which represents between 30-40% of the hgs in Brazil, if my memory serves, while another good chunk is European and Sub-Saharan. I couldn't find Iberian B2 in GenBank neither in YFull, but supposedly there would be some from Spain in FTDNA.
http://www.ianlogan.co.uk/sequences_..._sequences.htm (Let's see if we find some of your extra mutations in here; I'll send you a message about it.)

https://yfull.com/mtree/b2/

https://www.familytreedna.com/public...tree/B;name=B2

But in theory some B2 could be from Iberia as well. Whereas some Central Asian mtDNAs in parts of Spain could be related to a more Northern route, I wonder if the supposed Portuguese B2 s are related to a Southern one, like the following (in the hypothesis the map is accurate):


https://www.quora.com/Did-the-Ottomans-conquer-Morocco

Of course, this is highly speculative. It's just that few time ago I saw a Brazilian with haplogroup G1, pretty uncommon in Portugal, as G2a1 (most of Portuguese G men are G2a2). A man who has patrilineal ancestry from West Azerbaijan and this Brazilian (patrilineal ancestry from Portugal) form a branch with TMRCA of 4000 ybp, so it seems possible the hg was absorbed at some point in the way from Asia to West Europe, more recently. More samples will provide further clues on this. 
I believe the development of mtDNA tree will also help you to figure out the origin of your (so far unknown) subclade.

----------


## Angela

> Is it possible that bronze smelting was invented by G-L497 members of the Danube region near Romania/Ukraine and that the PIE.


Amzallag would disagree. 
https://www.jstor.org/stable/2062761...o_tab_contents

If you're thinking of that foil, the dating is in dispute.

Also, it would be odd given that most of Europe entered the Bronze Age so much later than the Near East.

Regardless, this is off topic. If you wish to pursue it, post in a metallurgy thread.

----------


## I()

may be right

----------


## Duarte

Thank you Regio. Thank you Angela. Thanks everybody.
I am pleased that FTDNA points me to the terminal haplogroup mtDNA B2, the same as the Xavante Indians I admire so much.
I voted for Chief Xavante Raoni in a petition requesting his nomination for the Nobel Peace Prize in reason of his peaceful struggle for the peoples of the Amazon rainforest and the preservation of this wonderful ecosystem.
It is an honor for me that FTDNA has defined B2 as my terminal haplogroup mtDNA, the same as Chief Raoni's.
But, as Regio said, my subclade is unknown, so much so that Y-Full declares it "new" and its "nomenclature" has been changed 4 times since I uploaded the FASTA FTDNA file to mtHaplotree Y-Full.
I consider the mtHaplogroup assigned to me by Y-Full - B2h1b2a - to be speculative, for now.
Understanding the definition offered by the "FTDNA mtHaplogroup Full Sequence" as the exact - B or B2.
Obviously I would not be surprised at mtHaplogroup B if my autosomal tests indicated an indigenous ancestry equal to or greater than 5% and not "zero" as in most cases or <1% in case of FTDNA.
That was, even, the reason I created this topic.
It's been great, because with the help of the Eupedia members the lights will come on and guide me to the end of the tunnel.
Maciamo's article brought more fuel to the discussions. It was great.
I appreciate the effort of all who are here trying to help me :)

----------


## I()

> Thank you Regio. Thank you Angela. Thanks everybody.
> I am pleased that FTDNA points me to the terminal haplogroup mtDNA B2, the same as the Xavante Indians I admire so much.
> I voted for Chief Xavante Raoni in a petition requesting his nomination for the Nobel Peace Prize in reason of his peaceful struggle for the peoples of the Amazon rainforest and the preservation of this wonderful ecosystem.
> It is an honor for me that FTDNA has defined B2 as my terminal haplogroup mtDNA, the same as Chief Raoni's.
> But, as Regio said, my subclade is unknown, so much so that Y-Full declares it "new" and its "nomenclature" has been changed 4 times since I uploaded the FASTA FTDNA file to mtHaplotree Y-Full.
> I consider the mtHaplogroup assigned to me by Y-Full - B2h1b2a - to be speculative, for now.
> Understanding the definition offered by the "FTDNA mtHaplogroup Full Sequence" as the exact - B or B2.
> Obviously I would not be surprised at mtHaplogroup B if my autosomal tests indicated an indigenous ancestry equal to or greater than 5% and not "zero" as in most cases or <1% in case of FTDNA.
> That was, even, the reason I created this topic.
> ...


Even if you don't have Native American ancestors (but I think you have), your attachment to the native people, who lived in those territories more than ten thousand years before the Europeans came, is worth all the respect.

----------


## Regio X

@Duarte
My pleasure. :)
Btw, you can also use some GedMatch calculators to get more clues on your actual Amerindian percentage.

----------


## Duarte

> @Duarte
> My pleasure. :)
> Btw, you can also use some GedMatch calculators to get more clues on your actual Amerindian percentage.


Thank you, once again Regio. The most common Gedmatch calculators are the Eurogenes. The most up-to-date algorithms for these calculators are at https://yourdnaportal.com.
Using the three main ones, K13, V2 K15 and K36, the Amerindian percentages remain very small, most of the time consistent with the average percentages present in the spreadsheets for Portuguese and some Spanish european populations. This spreadsheets can be checked in Gedmatch:

----------


## Regio X

> Thank you, once again Regio. The most common Gedmatch calculators are the Eurogenes. The most up-to-date algorithms for these calculators are at https://yourdnaportal.com.
> Using the three main ones, K13, V2 K15 and K36, the Amerindian percentages remain very small, most of the time consistent with the average percentages present in the spreadsheets for Portuguese and some Spanish european populations. This spreadsheets can be checked in Gedmatch:


Thanks. I said "some" GedMatch calculators precisely to get different references. Then, importantly, you get related % in various calculators, which seems to be a sign of real Native American ancestry. Did you try Harappa, btw?
Anyway, you must have something around 2%. 
I just remembered to read few time ago a related post from Dodecad, which may interest you.
http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2012/12...omponents.html

See also this other oldie:
https://dna-explained.com/2014/05/21...rmanic-people/

Cheers

----------


## Duarte

> Thanks. I said "some" GedMatch calculators precisely to get different references. Then, importantly, you get related % in various calculators, which seems to be a sign of real Native American ancestry. Did you try Harappa, btw?
> Anyway, you must have something around 2%. 
> I just remembered to read few time ago a related post from Dodecad, which may interest you.
> http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2012/12...omponents.html
> See also this other oldie:
> https://dna-explained.com/2014/05/21...rmanic-people/
> Cheers


Thanks Regio. 
Very useful informations and interesting papers attached by you. 
Working with Gedmatch's HarappaWorld, these would be, in theory, my Native American related ethnicities:

SE-Asian
0.30 Pct

Siberian
-

NE-Asian
0.39 Pct

Papuan
0.72 Pct

American
0.84 Pct

Beringian
-

San
-

TOTAL
2.25 Pct



Cheers  :Smile:

----------


## Duarte

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

----------


## Duarte

My New Kit MyHeritage – Ancestry + Health
Eurogenes - nMonte3 Oracle Results - YourPortalDNA

Eurogenes K13
Europe : 95.6%
North Africa: 1.4%
Sub-Saharan Africa: 2%
Asia: 0.6%
America: 0.2%
Oceania: 0.2%
TOTAL: 100%




Eurogenes V2 K15
Europe : 97.0%
North Africa: 0.2%
Sub-Saharan Africa: 2.4%
Asia: 0.0%
America: 0.4%
Oceania: 0.0%
TOTAL: 100%



Eurogenes K36
Europe : 99%
West Asia: 0.8 %
Sub-Saharan Africa: 0.2%
TOTAL: 100%

----------


## Duarte

Traits and health risk results





> 






> 


Neanderthal traits and EDAR (Useful for identifying Native American and East Asian ancestry)




>

----------


## Angela

> My New Kit MyHeritage – Ancestry + Health
> Eurogenes - nMonte3 Oracle Results - YourPortalDNA
> 
> Eurogenes K13
> Europe : 95.6%
> North Africa: 1.4%
> Sub-Saharan Africa: 2%
> Asia: 0.6%
> America: 0.2%
> ...


Interesting that Extremadura and Andalusia are your closest matches. Those are the areas from which the majority of Spanish New World peoples draw their descent, and I also think they may be the Spanish provinces, along with Galicia, closest to the Portuguese.

----------


## Duarte

> Interesting that Extremadura and Andalusia are your closest matches. Those are the areas from which the majority of Spanish New World peoples draw their descent, and I also think they may be the Spanish provinces, along with Galicia, closest to the Portuguese.


I think you're right Angela. Although I am not very keen on family traditions, I have a side of the family, the “Viegas”, who are very attached to these things. They did a wide family origins survey and even have a “coat of arms”. They had a family meeting where everyone gathered and I refused to go. But my father, my mother (at the time they still alive) and my brothers went there. Even though I didn't go there, they were kind and sent me the family “coat of arms” and the "book" with all the ancestors. I never opened the book but It’s written below the “coat of arms” that the family is of Spanish origin (Extremadura). Below the photo of the mentioned pennant:

----------


## I()

Come on, men! As far as I understand, you live in the South America with European ancestry from about 500 years ago and also a motherline from the same epoch. I remember a version of "Old Shutterhand" by Karl May ? This is history and this is the past .... No one can change, but at least know about it. And here you are right I think.

----------


## Duarte

> Come on, men! As far as I understand, you live in the South America with European ancestry from about 500 years ago and also a motherline from the same epoch. I remember a version of "Old Shutterhand" by Karl May ? This is history and this is the past .... No one can change, but at least know about it. And here you are right I think.


@ I()
Now results of FTDNA mtDNA Full Sequence is equals to Y-Full’s mtHaplotree. For while my deeper mitochondrial DNA is equivalent to an ancient indigenous from Americas (the called founders peoples). I do not belong to any of the known subclades of B2 mtDNA.







Enviado do meu iPhone usando Tapatalk

----------


## Angela

> @ I()
> Now results of FTDNA mtDNA Full Sequence is equals to Y-Full’s mtHaplotree. For while my deeper mitochondrial DNA is equivalent to an ancient indigenous from Americas (the called founders peoples). I do not belong to any of the known subclades of B2 mtDNA.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Enviado do meu iPhone usando Tapatalk


I know of something similar happening to some Cubans. Some carry sub-lineages of L1 or L2 (and L3, of course), can't remember the details of the particular case I'm remembering. It's easy to say it comes from an African slave woman brought to Cuba, but there are instances of those lineages showing up in the Canary Islands, from which some Cubans derive ancestry, and also from Southern Spain, and, of course, Portugal. One sample showed up in Bronze Age Spain.

Some detailed sub-lineage work has to be done to figure it out.

----------


## Duarte

> I know of something similar happening to some Cubans. Some carry sub-lineages of L1 or L2 (and L3, of course), can't remember the details of the particular case I'm remembering. It's easy to say it comes from an African slave woman brought to Cuba, but there are instances of those lineages showing up in the Canary Islands, from which some Cubans derive ancestry, and also from Southern Spain, and, of course, Portugal. One sample showed up in Bronze Age Spain.
> 
> Some detailed sub-lineage work has to be done to figure it out.


Yes, indeed Angela. What intrigues me most is that my maternal great-grandmother was Portuguese and, in turn, daughter of a Portuguese male and a Spanish female. Where did this B2 come from?

----------


## Tomenable

> Autosomal DNA (FTDNA and MyHeritage) does not indicate Native American ethnicities to me


But it does! You scored trace amounts of South America. GEDmatch confirms you have it.




> Yes, indeed Angela. What intrigues me most is that my maternal great-grandmother was Portuguese and, in turn, daughter of a Portuguese male and a Spanish female. Where did this B2 come from?


You mean that you can trace your maternal great-grandmother's mother back to Europe?

Some studies suggest, that in very rare cases mtDNA can be inherited from the father:

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-00093-1

----------


## Duarte

> But it does! You scored trace amounts of South America. GEDmatch confirms you have it.
> 
> 
> 
> You mean that you can trace your maternal great-grandmother's mother back to Europe?
> 
> Some studies suggest, that in very rare cases mtDNA can be inherited from the father:
> 
> https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-00093-1


Thanks for the link Tomenable :)
Yes, I know that (GEDmatch admixtures).
But I have always believed that my autosomal SSA DNA and my (little) autosomal Amerindian DNA were an inheritance from my paternal family and my maternal grandfather's family, who are descendants of colonial Iberians. My maternal grandmother's family is totally Iberian and arrived in Brazil in 1908. It was from my mother, from my maternal grandmother, from my maternal great-grandmother (Portuguese) and from my maternal great-great-grandmother (Spanish) that I inherited mtDNA B2. From my father I inherited the R1b-L151 (provisional, until the conclusion of BIG Y in November).
Hugs.


Enviado do meu iPhone usando Tapatalk

----------


## Duarte

> But it does! You scored trace amounts of South America. GEDmatch confirms you have it.
> 
> 
> 
> You mean that you can trace your maternal great-grandmother's mother back to Europe?
> 
> Some studies suggest, that in very rare cases mtDNA can be inherited from the father:
> 
> https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-00093-1


Perhaps a mestizo girl may have gone to Spain with the Spanish Jesuits who were expelled from the "Missions" by the Portuguese in the mid eighteenth century. Maybe my great-great-grandmother is a descendant of this girl. It is worth speculating on anything 
Hugs ;)


Enviado do meu iPhone usando Tapatalk

----------


## Regio X

> You mean that you can trace your maternal great-grandmother's mother back to Europe?
> Some studies suggest, that in very rare cases mtDNA can be inherited from the father:
> https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-00093-1





> See this: https://thegeneticgenealogist.com/20...ally-come-dad/


I didn't read the study yet, but the article above states the following:
"This research strongly suggests that while paternal inheritance of mtDNA can occur, it is extremely rare and likely co-presents with mitochondrial disease. Thus, all mtDNA research to date suggests that paternal inheritance of mtDNA will not affect genealogical research."

@Duarte
As discussed before, we never know, but the odds are it's Native American, which is reinforced by certain mutations in your coding region. It's possible a new branch was not "decided" yet because of the "ambiguity" of your results; still, in a first look, the current possibilities seem to point to America. Just a guess. We'll probably have a definitive answer in the future. :)

----------


## Duarte

> I didn't read the study yet, but the article above states the following:
> "This research strongly suggests that while paternal inheritance of mtDNA can occur, it is extremely rare and likely co-presents with mitochondrial disease. Thus, all mtDNA research to date suggests that paternal inheritance of mtDNA will not affect genealogical research."
> 
> @Duarte
> As discussed before, we never know, but the odds are it's Native American, which is reinforced by certain mutations in your coding region. It's possible a new branch was not "decided" yet because of the "ambiguity" of your results; still, in a first look, the current possibilities seem to point to America. Just a guess. We'll probably have a definitive answer in the future. :)


Thank you Regio. :)

The article presented by Tomenable does not negate what is presented in his article. The hypothesis arguided by the authors is that fully healthy individuals may, also, have mitochondrial heteroplasmy:

“Luo and colleagues identified three families with mtDNA heteroplasmy that could not be explained by maternal inheritance. The story started with a young boy suspected of having a mitochondrial disease. The authors performed high-resolution mtDNA sequencing, but did not identify any disease-causing mtDNA mutations. However, their analysis uncovered unusually high levels of mtDNA heteroplasmy. Intriguingly, the same unusual pattern of mtDNA variation was found in the boy’s mother and in his two healthy sisters (Fig. 1). 


Figure 1 - Family tree revealing paternal inheritance of mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA). Luo et al.2 sequenced the mtDNA of several members of a family in which many individuals had a high level of mtDNA heteroplasmy (the presence of distinct genetic variants in the same cell). This mtDNA variability is denoted by two colours in the same silhouette of an individual. The analysis showed that some of the individuals with heteroplasmy had inherited mtDNA from both of their parents, breaking the usual pattern of exclusive maternal inheritance of mtDNA. Luo et al. suggest that the ability to inherit paternal mtDNA is a genetic trait.

Although biparental inheritance of mtDNA and heteroplasmy coincided with disease symptoms in some of the individuals studied by Luo et al., the authors’ data do not demonstrate a causal link with disease. In fact, we cannot be certain that the study participants have mitochondrial disease, because no specific examinations to confirm this diagnosis are reported. Further study is needed to identify more cases of potential paternal mtDNA inheritance, and to determine the functional consequences of such heteroplasmy. Notably, this knowledge is relevant to mitochondrial-donation therapy (“three-parent babies”), which aims to prevent the transmission of disease-causing mtDNA to offspring, but which can also potentially generate individuals with two types of mtDNA, one from the donor and another from the mother.”


Enviado do meu iPhone usando Tapatalk

----------


## Regio X

> Thank you Regio. :)
> 
> The article presented by Tomenable does not negate what is presented in his article. The hypothesis arguided by the authors is that fully healthy individuals may, also, have mitochondrial heteroplasmy:
> 
> “Luo and colleagues identified three families with mtDNA heteroplasmy that could not be explained by maternal inheritance. The story started with a young boy suspected of having a mitochondrial disease. The authors performed high-resolution mtDNA sequencing, but did not identify any disease-causing mtDNA mutations. However, their analysis uncovered unusually high levels of mtDNA heteroplasmy. Intriguingly, the same unusual pattern of mtDNA variation was found in the boy’s mother and in his two healthy sisters (Fig. 1). 
> 
> 
> Figure 1 - Family tree revealing paternal inheritance of mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA). Luo et al.2 sequenced the mtDNA of several members of a family in which many individuals had a high level of mtDNA heteroplasmy (the presence of distinct genetic variants in the same cell). This mtDNA variability is denoted by two colours in the same silhouette of an individual. The analysis showed that some of the individuals with heteroplasmy had inherited mtDNA from both of their parents, breaking the usual pattern of exclusive maternal inheritance of mtDNA. Luo et al. suggest that the ability to inherit paternal mtDNA is a genetic trait.
> 
> ...


@Duarte
Sure, sure. The article certainly doesn't contradict the study. It's in fact based on the study:
"Will Luo and colleagues’ findings affect the counselling of individuals carrying disease-causing mtDNA mutations who are considering having children? Not greatly, because paternal mitochondrial transmission seems to be exceedingly rare in humans."
So exceedingly rare...

Plus, as the article pointed out, the study apparently deal with the condition as a disease - mild or not, depending on each case. Yes, healthy individuals may have it, a situation that seems to be even rarer. It's just that, the way it was diffused in the media, it looked like it was just an uncommon situation without any implications. That's why the article states:
"Be careful with the media coverage, which can omit several important facts such as the mitochondrial disease. Here are a few links, some of them a bit sensationalized by omitting the significant limitations:"
This is what motivated my comment.

The whole point, in short, is that you're a Brazilian with a typical Native American mtDNA, associated to traces of the related ancestry in autosomal. Where Occam's razor points to? mtDNA inheritance from father or a Iberian origin based on traces of B2 in Cataluña (less problematic than an inheritance from father though), while in theory possible, looks like unnecessary speculations here. It would affect each testee no matter the case, with no reason for so. Such speculations demand more than that imo. Point is that the answer looks way simpler, but I agree it's fun to do these mental exercises.
Finally, I know you haven't said otherwise. :) At the end, we likely agree.

Cheers.

----------


## Duarte

> @Duarte
> Sure, sure. The article certainly doesn't contradict the study. It's in fact based on the study:
> "Will Luo and colleagues’ findings affect the counselling of individuals carrying disease-causing mtDNA mutations who are considering having children? Not greatly, because paternal mitochondrial transmission seems to be exceedingly rare in humans."
> So exceedingly rare...
> 
> Plus, as the article pointed out, the study apparently deal with the condition as a disease - mild or not, depending on each case. Yes, healthy individuals may have it, a situation that seems to be even rarer. It's just that, the way it was diffused in the media, it looked like it was just an uncommon situation without any implications. That's why the article states:
> "Be careful with the media coverage, which can omit several important facts such as the mitochondrial disease. Here are a few links, some of them a bit sensationalized by omitting the significant limitations:"
> This is what motivated my comment.
> 
> ...


Cheers back, dear friend. Thanks once again ;)


Enviado do meu iPhone usando Tapatalk

----------


## italouruguayan

Hi Duarte!
In Spain, "Indianos" were called those who, being Spaniards or their descendants, after having made their fortunes in the American colonies (formerly called "Las Indias" in Spain), returned to the peninsula. Apparently some American mitochondrial lineage arrived in Spain in this way, as seen in a study published by the Genographic Project on a sampling in Asturias.

----------


## italouruguayan

https://blog.nationalgeographic.org/...n-family-tree/

----------


## Duarte

> Hi Duarte!
> In Spain, "Indianos" were called those who, being Spaniards or their descendants, after having made their fortunes in the American colonies (formerly called "Las Indias" in Spain), returned to the peninsula. Apparently some American mitochondrial lineage arrived in Spain in this way, as seen in a study published by the Genographic Project on a sampling in Asturias.


Thank you Italo. You’re very kind. Very useful information. Maybe my great-great-grandmother was Indiana. Below my great-great-grandfather, the Portuguese António Guerra, in 1908. Next, his granddaughter and my grandmother - maybe, in this sense, Indiana as my great-great-grandmother, the Spanish female, Filomena. My grandma was Brazilian, of dual nationality (Portuguese and Brazilian). Her name is Maria Angelica Viegas. Pic of 1972, shortly before her death at 64 yers old.

----------


## italouruguayan

Thanks Duarte! I'm glad to have contributed something useful.
My mtDNA, A2, coincides with the sample of Asturias, and according to Maciamo, also with that of the Mexican-American actress Eva Longoria.
Regards!

----------


## Duarte

> Thanks Duarte! I'm glad to have contributed something useful.
> My mtDNA, A2, coincides with the sample of Asturias, and according to Maciamo, also with that of the Mexican-American actress Eva Longoria.
> Regards!




Eva is really a very beautiful woman. You have with She a fantastic mtDNA “match”. Wikipedia says that, “despite She beings of Mexican (Tejano) origin, Eva Longoria's ancestors moved to the present state of Texas even before it was incorporated into the United States. She managed to trace her ancestry to the region of Asturias in Spain. A genetic study by a television program also suggests that she has indigenous descent and a bit of African descent. According to this study, Longoria's ancestry is 70% European, 27% Amerindian, and 3% African. Eva was named by “People en Español” magazine as one of the 25 most beautiful people on the planet and by Maxim magazine, in the first position, among the sexiest female stars in the world.”

Regards.




Enviado do meu iPhone usando Tapatalk

----------


## italouruguayan

Yes, Duarte. My "relative" is really beautiful (fortunately my wife does not read these posts ...lol...). And my "mix" is very similar to hers: I'm 79% European, 18% Native American and 3% sub-Saharan African ...

----------


## Duarte

> Yes, Duarte. My "relative" is really beautiful (fortunately my wife does not read these posts ...lol...). And my "mix" is very similar to hers: I'm 79% European, 18% Native American and 3% sub-Saharan African ...


Lol. It's better to really say nothing. It will be hard to explain that it is just a post in a forum about genetics. The first thing my wife would ask is, who is this girl and what are you doing? LOL. Have a nice night dear friend Ítalo.


Enviado do meu iPhone usando Tapatalk

----------


## I()

maybe everywhere, women are the same...
We must be careful because it is a word in Romania that sounds like this.
"The woman lifts you ... the woman drops you." ... :Confused:  :Confused:

----------


## Duarte

Big Y 700 complete. FTDNA's results displayed today:

R1b > M269 > L23 > L51 > P310 > L151 > P312 > DF27 > ZZ12 > ZZ19 > Z31644 > BY2285 > BY25634 > FGC35133

----------


## Angela

> Thank you Italo. You’re very kind. Very useful information. Maybe my great-great-grandmother was Indiana. Below my great-great-grandfather, the Portuguese António Guerra, in 1908. Next, his granddaughter and my grandmother - maybe, in this sense, Indiana as my great-great-grandmother, the Spanish female, Filomena. My grandma was Brazilian, of dual nationality (Portuguese and Brazilian). Her name is Maria Angelica Viegas. Pic of 1972, shortly before her death at 64 yers old.


I love her eyes, and the streak of white in her hair. She could easily be Italian as well, but not the man. He looks completely Iberian to me. 

Nice pictures.

----------


## Duarte

> I love her eyes, and the streak of white in her hair. She could easily be Italian as well, but not the man. He looks completely Iberian to me. 
> 
> Nice pictures.


Thank you Angela. 
As always, you're very kind :)

----------


## Regio X

> Big Y 700 complete. FTDNA's results displayed today:
> 
> R1b > M269 > L23 > L51 > P310 > L151 > P312 > DF27 > ZZ12 > ZZ19 > Z31644 > BY2285 > BY25634 > FGC35133


Awesome, Duarte! Finally! Congrats!

@Angela
Completely agree. She could be Italian.

----------


## Duarte

> Awesome, Duarte! Finally! Congrats!
> @Angela
> Completely agree. She could be Italian.


Thank you Regio  :Smile:

----------


## Duarte

> @Duarte
> Sure, sure. The article certainly doesn't contradict the study. It's in fact based on the study:
> "Will Luo and colleagues’ findings affect the counselling of individuals carrying disease-causing mtDNA mutations who are considering having children? Not greatly, because paternal mitochondrial transmission seems to be exceedingly rare in humans."
> So exceedingly rare...
> 
> Plus, as the article pointed out, the study apparently deal with the condition as a disease - mild or not, depending on each case. Yes, healthy individuals may have it, a situation that seems to be even rarer. It's just that, the way it was diffused in the media, it looked like it was just an uncommon situation without any implications. That's why the article states:
> "Be careful with the media coverage, which can omit several important facts such as the mitochondrial disease. Here are a few links, some of them a bit sensationalized by omitting the significant limitations:"
> This is what motivated my comment.
> 
> ...




Dear friend Regio X. How are you? We haven't talked for a long time. I would just like to point out a little more about the presence of mongolian mitochondrial haplogroups in Europe (of course I do not have Maciamo's expertise) just to enrich the discussion on the subject.

As I said in previous posts, my maternal lineage (grandmother, great-grandmother and great-great-grandmother) is 100% Iberian. All of them Portuguese citizens. I met my great-grandmother (who died at 94) and also my grandmother (who died at 64).

I loved to find out that I'm a B, although I expected something more downstream and not just a B2 whose age is estimated at 17,100 ybp by Y-Full.

A Latin American like me could not be think it's weird to have a Native American mitochondrial haplogroup, and I am not be think it's weird. I'm just dealing with facts.

I have a 100% Iberian maternal lineage and a Mongolian mitochondrial haplogroup (or Native American if you prefer).

I recently discovered, right here in Eupedia, a Portuguese who has an Alan “Y” haplogroup (a post by Pax Augusta was essential for me to make this discovery). See the topic below:

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/39208-J1-ysc235

The following grafts, obtained from Wikipedia in English, show that Alans and Huns had a visceral relationship during many centuries of history (at least until the early Middle Ages in Europe):

_"The name Alan is an Iranian dialectical form of Aryan. Possibly related to the Massagetae, the Alans have been connected by modern historians with the Central Asian Yancai and Aorsi of Chinese and Roman sources, respectively. Having migrated westwards and become dominant among the Sarmatians on the Pontic Steppe, they are mentioned by Roman sources in the 1st century AD. At the time, they had settled the region north of the Black Sea and frequently raided the Parthian Empire and the Caucasian provinces of the Roman Empire. From 215–250 AD, their power on the Pontic Steppe was broken by the Goths.

Upon the Hunnic defeat of the Goths on the Pontic Steppe around 375 AD, many of the Alans migrated westwards along with various Germanic tribes. They crossed the Rhine in 406 AD along with the Vandals and Suebi, settling in Orléans and Valence. 

Around 409 AD, they joined the Vandals and Suebi in the crossing of the Pyrenees into the Iberian Peninsula, settling in Lusitania and Carthaginensis. The Iberian Alans were soundly defeated by the Visigoths in 418 AD and subsequently surrendered their authority to the Hasdingi Vandals. 

After the Gothic entry to the steppe, many of the Alans seem to have retreated eastwards towards the Don, where they seem to have established contacts with the Huns. Ammianus writes that the Alans were "somewhat like the Huns, but in their manner of life and their habits they are less savage." Jordanes contrasted them with the Huns, noting that the Alans "were their equals in battle, but unlike them in their civilisation, manners and appearance". In the late 4th century, Vegetius conflates Alans and Huns in his military treatise – Hunnorum Alannorumque natio, the "nation of Huns and Alans" – and collocates Goths, Huns and Alans, exemplo Gothorum et Alannorum Hunnorumque.

The 4th century Roman historian Ammianus Marcellinus noted that the Alans were "formerly called Massagetae," while Dio Cassius wrote that "they are Massagetae." It is likely that the Alans were an amalgamation of various Iranian peoples, including Sarmatians, Massagetae and Sakas. Scholars have connected the Alans to the nomadic state of Yancai mentioned in Chinese sources. The Yancai are first mentioned in connection with late 2nd century BC diplomat Zhang Qian's travels in Chapter 123 of Shiji (whose author, Sima Qian, died c. 90 BC). The Yancai of Chinese records has again been equated with the Aorsi, a powerful Sarmatian tribe living between the Don River and the Aral Sea, mentioned in Roman records, in particular Strabo.

Around 370, according to Ammianus, the peaceful relations between the Alans and Huns were broken, after the Huns attacked the Don Alans, killing many of them and establishing an alliance with the survivors. These Alans successfully invaded the Goths in 375 together with the Huns. They subsequently accompanied the Huns in their westward expansion.

Following the Hunnic invasion in 370, other Alans, along with other Sarmatians, migrated westward. One of these Alan groups fought together with the Goths in the decisive Battle of Adrianople in 378 AD, in which emperor Valens was killed. As the Roman Empire continued to decline, the Alans split into various groups; some fought for the Romans while other joined the Huns, Visigoths or Ostrogoths. A portion of the western Alans joined the Vandals and the Suebi in their invasion of Roman Gaul. Gregory of Tours mentions in his Liber historiae Francorum ("Book of Frankish History") that the Alan king Respendial saved the day for the Vandals in an armed encounter with the Franks at the crossing of the Rhine on December 31, 406). According to Gregory, another group of Alans, led by Goar, crossed the Rhine at the same time, but immediately joined the Romans and settled in Gaul.
Under Beorgor (Beorgor rex Alanorum), they moved throughout Gaul, till the reign of Petronius Maximus, when they crossed the Alps in the winter of 464, into Liguria, but were there defeated, and Beorgor slain, by Ricimer, commander of the Emperor's forces.

In 442, after it became clear to Aetius that he could no longer rely upon the Huns for support, he turned to Goar and convinced him to move some of his people to settlements in the Orleanais in order to control the bacaudae of Armorica and to keep the Visigoths from expanding their territories northward across the Loire. Goar settled a substantial number of his followers in the Orleanais and the area to the north and personally moved his own capital to the city of Orleans.

Under Goar, they allied with the Burgundians led by Gundaharius, with whom they installed the Emperor Jovinus as usurper. Under Goar's successor Sangiban, the Alans of Orléans played a critical role in repelling the invasion of Attila the Hun at the Battle of Châlons. In 463 the Alans defeated the Goths at the battle of Orléans, and they later defeated the Franks led by Childeric in 466.

Around 502-503 Clovis attacked Armorica and but he was defeated by the Alans, however the Alans, who, like Clovis, were Christians, desired cordial relations with him to counterbalance the hostile Arian Visigoths who coveted the land north of the Loire. Therefore, an accord was arranged by which 
Clovis came to rule the various peoples of Armorica and the military strength of the area was integrated into the Merovingian military.

Following the fortunes of the Vandals and Suebi into the Iberian peninsula (Hispania, comprising modern Portugal and Spain) in 409, the Alans led by Respendial settled in the provinces of Lusitania and Carthaginensis. The Kingdom of the Alans was among the first Barbarian kingdoms to be founded. The Siling Vandals settled in Baetica, the Suebi in coastal Gallaecia, and the Asding Vandals in the rest of Gallaecia. Although the newcomers controlled Hispania they were still a tiny minority among a larger Hispano-Roman population, approximately 200,000 out of 6,000,000.

In 418 (or 426 according to some authors), the Alan king, Attaces, was killed in battle against the Visigoths, and this branch of the Alans subsequently appealed to the Asding Vandal king Gunderic to accept the Alan crown. The separate ethnic identity of Respendial's Alans dissolved. Although some of these Alans are thought to have remained in Iberia, most went to North Africa with the Vandals in 429. Later the rulers of the Vandal Kingdom in North Africa styled themselves Rex Wandalorum et Alanorum ("King of the Vandals and Alans").

There are some vestiges of the Alans in Portugal, namely in Alenquer (whose name may be Germanic for the Temple of the Alans, from "Alan Kerk", and whose castle may have been established by them; the Alaunt is still represented in that city's coat of arms), in the construction of the castles of Torres Vedras and Almourol, and in the city walls of Lisbon, where vestiges of their presence may be found under the foundations of the Church of Santa Luzia.

In the Iberian peninsula the Alans settled in Lusitania (Alentejo) and the Cartaginense provinces.

The Alans who remained under Hunnic rule founded a powerful kingdom in the North Caucasus in the Middle Ages, which ended with the Mongol invasions in the 13th century AD. These Alans are said to be the ancestors of the modern Ossetians.

The Alans spoke an Eastern Iranian language which derived from Scytho-Sarmatian and which in turn evolved into modern Ossetian."_

My "Y" haplogroup (R-DF27) has very high frequencies in areas where mongolic mitochondrial haplogroups have been found in Western Europe (Catalonia, Vendée and Charente-Maritime, Rhone Valley - in a possible ancient association with the Huns/Alans):




Needless to say about the remarkable presence of the Alans in Portugal, who founded, there, the first barbarian kingdom in Western Europe.

I love being a mitochondrial Xavante (although I have no confirmation of any clade downstream of the B2 subclade), but I can't rule out being a mitochondrial descendant of an ancient Alan/Hun mestizo woman, I think.

Cheers  :Smile:

----------


## Regio X

> Dear friend Regio X. How are you? We haven't talked for a long time. I would just like to point out a little more about the presence of mongolian mitochondrial haplogroups in Europe (of course I do not have Maciamo's expertise) just to enrich the discussion on the subject.
> 
> As I said in previous posts, my maternal lineage (grandmother, great-grandmother and great-great-grandmother) is 100% Iberian. All of them Portuguese citizens. I met my great-grandmother (who died at 94) and also my grandmother (who died at 64).
> 
> I loved to find out that I'm a B, although I expected something more downstream and not just a B2 whose age is estimated at 17,100 ybp by Y-Full.
> 
> A Latin American like me could not be think it's weird to have a Native American mitochondrial haplogroup, and I am not be think it's weird. I'm just dealing with facts.
> 
> I have a 100% Iberian maternal lineage and a Mongolian mitochondrial haplogroup (or Native American if you prefer).
> ...


Hi, Duarte. Fine here. What about you?
Yes, an Iberian B would make more sense than father inheritance. 
As I said, it looked more likely it was Native, because you do have traces of NA in Autosomal, and because you're Brazilian, but you're saying this recent matrilineal ancestor was 100% Portuguese, without adoption in the line. That changes things, I agree.
As you said, currently you're just B2, so you certainly have additional mutations that may form new branches below it, and these new branches will likely help to solve this "mistery". So let's wait the next chapters of mtDNA phylogeny. :)

Cheers

----------


## Duarte

> Hi, Duarte. Fine here. What about you?
> Yes, an Iberian B would make more sense than father inheritance. 
> As I said, it looked more likely it was Native, because you do have traces of NA in Autosomal, and because you're Brazilian, but you're saying this recent matrilineal ancestor was 100% Portuguese, without adoption in the line. That changes things, I agree.
> As you said, currently you're just B2, so you certainly have additional mutations that may form new branches below it, and these new branches will likely help to solve this "mistery". So let's wait the next chapters of mtDNA phylogeny. :)
> 
> Cheers


I'm fine Regio, thanks. Let's look forward to the upcoming season of the "My Weird Mitochondrial DNA" TV series on NETFLIX. I hope there are not many seasons. LOL  :Good Job:

----------


## Duarte

I think that the migration of Alans to Hispania, joining themselves to Suebis and Vandals in this migration, can explain many of these autosomal matches displayed by MTA:














Enviado do meu iPhone usando Tapatalk

----------

