# Population Genetics > Y-DNA Haplogroups > T >  T1a2b Members

## Arfunda

Dear paternal Y-DNA T1a2b (T-L446) Members;

My paternal Y-DNA is T1a2b. I live in Turkey, and my paternal and maternal origins are from two towns of the area between Ancient Paphlagonia and Bithynia.

Of course there are people from many countries sharing T. But I wonder where and when T1a2b had originated?
When I read the forum messages of Anthrogenica I saw that there were T1a2bs mostly from Italy. here in eupedia ı saw there are T1as from Italy, too.

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## Arfunda

I am asking these questions for my T1a2b origin? These are the possibilities of my origin:

1. As I read from the historical sources Enetians of Pahplagonia were taken to Italy. Can it explain the shared origin? Are the Enetions of Pahphlagonia who had traveled to Italy and whose name was given to (V)Enetia were my grand grand... grandfather's cousins? (1)

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## Arfunda

2.Bucellarian Theme was created around the middle of the 8th century, comprising most of the ancient region of Paphlagonia and parts of Galatia and Phrygia.The name of the theme derives from the late Roman Bucellarii, elite cavalry troops of Gothic or Roman origin, often found as privately recruited bodyguard troops.(2)
Paplagonia had been a part of Roman and later East Roman Empire. Roman Empire had legionnaires from different areas. Can this explain the shared origin? (3) 

Did my T1a2b grand grand... father first come to Bithynia from Italia as a Roman soldier? and had a child form a Bithynian or Paplagonian woman?

Or was it the opplosite? The sources about Roman Empire tells that Pahplagonia gave many soldiers to Roman Empire? Did the Tba2b cousins of great ... great grandfather were these soldiers from Paphlagonia?

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## Arfunda

3.Most gladiators were sold from slave markets from every land of Roman Empire. Can this explain the shared origin? Were my T1a2b Bithynian grand grand ... grandfather's cousins sold to Roman Empire as a slave, as a gladiator?

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## Arfunda

4.Where and when was our first original T1a2b grand .... grandfather born? And how his sons migrated/or taken to other places? Was it during neolitic period or later? Does T1a2b have Italian or Anatolian or Levantine origines? or any other origin? How old is T1a2b? Where was he first born?

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## Arfunda

5.Did Phoenecians carry T1a2b while they were traveling by their ships towards the Mediterrean and Black Sea costs. Here is a link showing the trade routes of Ancient Greece, Italy and Anatolia. (4)

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## Arfunda

6. Was my T1a2b grand grand... grandfather a member of one of the tribes that had come to Bithynia from Thrace. (5)

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## Arfunda

7. Was my T1a2b grand... grandfather a member of one of the tribes that had come to Paphlagonia from Caucasia? (6)

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## Arfunda

8. Was my T1a2b grand... grand father an Original Anatolian whose grandsons were first citizens of Bithynia/Paphlagonia, later of Roman/Byzantine Empire, and at last of Ottoman Empire?

As I know my paternal grandfathers have been living at the same geography for centuries.

Kind Regards

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## Arfunda

I couldn't share my links for my references. I should post 20 messages to share links.

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## Arfunda

Some Sources:

Afezolli D, Allen BM, Hepworth JE, Andrew JK. Unearthing the Roots of Venice: Relics to DNA.

Avila C. Exploring the history of venice: Relics, records, and relations.

Reynolds, Beatrice. "Brum And Perotti Present A Greek Historian." Bibliotheque d'humanisme et Renaissance 16, no. 1 (1954): 108-118.

Karpov S. The Black Sea region, before and after the Fourth Crusade. Urbs capta: The Fourth Crusade and its Consequences; La IVe Croisade et ses consequences. 2005:288-9.

Carlson E, Nwaobasi F, Saxena S, Truchanovicius V. Venice: Genesis of the City and its People (Doctoral dissertation, Worcester Polytechnic Institute).

Bartusis MC. The late Byzantine army: arms and society, 1204-1453. University of Pennsylvania Pr

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## torzio

> Dear paternal Y-DNA T1a2b (T-L446) Members;
> 
> My paternal Y-DNA is T1a2b. I live in Turkey, and my paternal and maternal origins are from two towns of the area between Ancient Paphlagonia and Bithynia.
> 
> Of course there are people from many countries sharing T. But I wonder where and when T1a2b had originated?
> When I read the forum messages of Anthrogenica I saw that there were T1a2bs mostly from Italy. here in eupedia ı saw there are T1as from Italy, too.


you come from an ancient area which was a mix of ...Palaic people and Bithynia was thracian people .................they spoke https://www.britannica.com/topic/Ana...nguages/Palaic 

I got the same thing when I first got snp L446

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## torzio

> I am asking these questions for my T1a2b origin? These are the possibilities of my origin:
> 
> 1. As I read from the historical sources Enetians of Pahplagonia founded Venetia. Can it explain the shared origin? Are the founders of Venetia are my grand grand... grandfather's cousins? (1)



The oldest people in Veneto/friuli regions of Italy ,where the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euganei .................they are said to be kicked out of the plains of Veneto when the Veneti arrived 1250BC 
Roman historian Cato states the Euganei had 34 towns ............so they where large in number

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## torzio

> 2.Bucellarian Theme was created around the middle of the 8th century, comprising most of the ancient region of Paphlagonia and parts of Galatia and Phrygia.The name of the theme derives from the late Roman Bucellarii, elite cavalry troops of Gothic or Roman origin, often found as privately recruited bodyguard troops.(2)
> Paplagonia had been a part of Roman and later East Roman Empire. Roman Empire had legionnaires from different areas. Can this explain the shared origin? (3) 
> 
> Did my T1a2b grand grand... father first come to Bithynia from Italia as a Roman soldier? and had a child form a Bithynian or Paplagonian woman?



Bithynia was ancient Thracians and Phrygia was direct south of Bithynia ................different people from what I read about 

no idea if you are roman soldier.............but many thracians served as Roman troops

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## torzio

> 4.Where and when was our first original T1a2b grand .... grandfather born? And how his sons migrated/or taken to other places? Was it during neolitic period or later? Does T1a2b have Italian or Anatolian or Levantine origines?



I believe T split off into the current 4 groups of T1a1, T1a2, T1a3 and T2-Ph110 in Central-Asia ( southern Kazakhstan area) .....................T ydna belong under Haplogroup LT and further back under 
K-M9

K-M9 is where haplogroups R1a, R1b, N, O also come form 


These haplogroups would be "1st cousins"

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