Immigration What should Europeans do with illegal immigrants?

[bicicleur 2]

Well, Kurds have alredy been cooperated with Assad, maybe it is because of Assad has more important enemys then Kurds and they also don't have border. Assad still voice of Alawi people of Syria

http://www.ibtimes.com/fight-kobane-may-have-created-new-alliance-syria-kurds-assad-regime-1701363

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2015/08/syrian-kurds-sets-terms-assad-partnership-150803191234786.html

this is no proof
there are similar videos circulating of Turkish police cooperating with ISIS fighters on Turkish teritory
I don't believe them either
sure is Erdogan is very ambiguous

 

[bicicleur 2]

You mean in Belgium immigrant receives citizenship right after arrival?

a refugee has to register, i.e. apply for refugee status

if it is not rejected, he/she gets citizenship status
same in Germany I believe

that's why after a few weeks Merkel will be forced to close the borders again
and then she'll get the blaim for having set in motion this uncontrollable stream of immigrants

 

[LeBrok]

a refugee has to register, i.e. apply for refugee status

if it is not rejected, he/she gets citizenship status
same in Germany I believe

that's why after a few weeks Merkel will be forced to close the borders again
and then she'll get the blaim for having set in motion this uncontrollable stream of immigrants

According to these sites there is 5 year waiting period for citizenship and some restrictions.
[h=2]Naturalisation as a Belgian citizen[edit][/h]Before January 1st of 2013 - date when the modifications to the Belgium Nationality Code have entered into force, - after three years of legal residence in Belgium any person aged 18 or more years, could apply for a naturalisation. Effective of 1 of January 2013, five years^[1] of legal residence needs to be met to submit the application for naturalisation. However, new law defined naturalisation as an exceptional act resulting in appreciation that the applicant possesses exceptional merits in the fields of sport, culture, or science.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_nationality_law


http://www.expatica.com/be/visas-and-permits/How-to-apply-for-Belgian-citizenship_100133.html

 

[epoch]

And I'm pointing to modern examples, which are more valid for our modern lives than history of the centuries. Perhaps we should be also afraid of feudalism or Roman Empire coming back?
The world has changed so much that it is impossible to predict future from history anymore. From history you couldn't predict rise of modern united Europe, democracy, free and tolerant societies, computers, robotics, free trade, etc.

Fine. We'll go that way: You can't compare Canada and its supposed successful immigration society with Europe's current invasion then. So, then why don't you believe the Europeans here, who actually experience the mess this influx causes?

It is a solution.
Turkey already hosts a million of Syrians.
Firstly Syria doesn't exist anymore. There is part controlled by Assad in domestic war with different clans. The rest is in Islamist' hands. Secondly, Syrian Kurds feel independent already, as they battle by themselves for survival against Deash. I think it is more important for Kurds, at the moment, if the rest of the world recognizes Kurdistan.

EDIT: Turkey will do everything it can to thwart that recognition.

When I asked about your independent idea, it was in relation to building new states in Middle East. Is it more beneficial for them and the region, if they can figure it out by themselves, from grass roots movements, or someone stronger and in power should cut and curve the region delaying inevitable conflicts to the future, the way colonialists did? Or is there another way to go?

That is not mine to proof. I simply bring across that the whole the-west-created-this is utter bollocks. I don\t think the West has any responsibility in Syria at all.

I'm sure if there was anything supporting your point of view, you would have don't it and posted it already.

Non-western immigrants cost society about 40 to 50.000 euro a year, due to leeching off the welfare state. This also goes for the second generation.

The agency that made this calculations is consulted by the state on a regular basis.

 

[epoch]

What I want to know, LeBrok, is why you seem so hell bound for the Europeans to accept the massive immigration. Why is that so important to you?

You seem to throw arguments at it at random. Take for instance this:

I'm glad that this Native likes modern clothing, modern weapons, modern healthcare, modrn houses and modern money. All arranged by migrants.

Last time I heard an argument like that - "The natives should be glad the white man came" - it was uttered by Stormfronters, who then went on that the best thing happening an African was to be sold in slavery and transported to the U.S. because his descendants would be so much better off.

Why on earth do you want Europe to accept massive immigration? What is it to you?

 

[Kardu]

Like a good cultural marxist he dreams to once and for all break the back of European identity and culture which are like a bone in the throat of their heaven on the earth utopia...
(and as a usual tactic he will deny this and name some heartbreaking issues like compassion and human rights)

 

[bicicleur 2]

According to these sites there is 5 year waiting period for citizenship and some restrictions.
Naturalisation as a Belgian citizen[edit]

Before January 1st of 2013 - date when the modifications to the Belgium Nationality Code have entered into force, - after three years of legal residence in Belgium any person aged 18 or more years, could apply for a naturalisation. Effective of 1 of January 2013, five years^[1] of legal residence needs to be met to submit the application for naturalisation. However, new law defined naturalisation as an exceptional act resulting in appreciation that the applicant possesses exceptional merits in the fields of sport, culture, or science.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_nationality_law


http://www.expatica.com/be/visas-and-permits/How-to-apply-for-Belgian-citizenship_100133.html

wrong source, this is not about refugees, this is about persons staying in Belgium legaly
when a refugee enters Belgium, he has to apply for refugee status ; if it is not rejected he gets citizenship rights ; this is irreversible

Merkel is about to make the same mistake as Helmut Kohl did when he converted Ostmark against D-Mark when East- and West-Germany were unified.
http://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/germancurrency.htm
It costed Germany 10-15 years of economic slowdown with marginal GNP growth.
It was the only time in postwar history that German economy was underperforming French economy.
Yet many East-Germans were - and still are - ungratefull, they feel they are discriminated compared to West-Germans.
They blaim West-Germany instead of communism that ruled East-Germany before unification.

Poland and other East-European countries didn't get that kind of support.
They are still in the process of catching up with western economies but at least they know who is to blaim for that.

 

[LeBrok]

wrong source, this is not about refugees, this is about persons staying in Belgium legaly
when a refugee enters Belgium, he has to apply for refugee status ; if it is not rejected he gets citizenship rights ; this is irreversible

You have actual access to Belgium government documents in this matter. Why don't you check it out. I'm sure you are confusing citizenship with extended resident status. I never in my life heard of any country granting citizenship to refugees right away.

 

[LeBrok]

Fine. We'll go that way: You can't compare Canada and its supposed successful immigration society with Europe's current invasion then. So, then why don't you believe the Europeans here, who actually experience the mess this influx causes?

How did your life change?

That is not mine to proof. I simply bring across that the whole the-west-created-this is utter bollocks. I don\t think the West has any responsibility in Syria at all.

Who said we have a responsibility. If we do invade Syria, it is more like exercising an option to try making peace there.

Non-western immigrants cost society about 40 to 50.000 euro a year, due to leeching off the welfare state. This also goes for the second generation.

The agency that made this calculations is consulted by the state on a regular basis.

Could you copy and past this section of statistics paper.

 

[LeBrok]

What I want to know, LeBrok, is why you seem so hell bound for the Europeans to accept the massive immigration. Why is that so important to you?

I want Europe to find a solution. To get together on this issue and act responsibly and multilaterally. Otherwise Europe looks like a mess, grotesque, inconsequential and irresponsible.

Last time I heard an argument like that - "The natives should be glad the white man came" - it was uttered by Stormfronters, who then went on that the best thing happening an African was to be sold in slavery and transported to the U.S. because his descendants would be so much better off.

Canada is big like Europe with only 35 million citizens. There is plenty of room for natives to roam and hunt the old ways if they want to continue their hunter gatherer lifestyle, for 1 million natives. There is no one stopping or forbidding them. Choice is theirs to make.

Why on earth do you want Europe to accept massive immigration? What is it to you?

To see if in Europe there is any compassion left. Not much except in Germany and Sweden.

 

[epoch]

I want Europe to find a solution. To get together on this issue and act responsibly and multilaterally. Otherwise Europe looks like a mess, grotesque, inconsequential and irresponsible.

To see if in Europe there is any compassion left. Not much except in Germany and Sweden.

The compassion you so deeply long for killed 1500 migrants a year, and that was BEFORE the Syrian onslaught. Ruthlessly closing the border by Australia reduced these deaths to zero. Germany is currently the pull factor that caused that Kurdish boy to drown. Your point of view kills.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Sovereign_Borders#Outcomes

We have shown with a number of statistics that previous postwar migrations never worked well. You can read up on Robert Putnam to see that the resulting multicultural societies don't work well on a non-economic level as well. The Australian example shows that closing the borders works very well in reducing suffering. You have to be blind not to see what needs to happen. The only thing is that sentimental people simply can't muster the courage to do it and therefore prefer to be blind.

Unfortunately we live in a world and age where cheap and easy sentiments run unchecked.

 

[Maleth]

Germany to release 6 Billion euros to help regional governments cope with thousands of migrants amid warnings that borders must close again

http://www.bbc.com/news

 

[bicicleur 2]

You have actual access to Belgium government documents in this matter. Why don't you check it out. I'm sure you are confusing citizenship with extended resident status. I never in my life heard of any country granting citizenship to refugees right away.

the registration takes only a few hours
if they are not rejected, refugee status is granted and they have the right to stay in Belgium permanently, get voting rights and full social security benefits
they can apply for Belgian nationality and they don't even have to give up their original nationality, they can keep both nationalities
unbelievable as you state yourself

attracting this swarm of refugees is going to lead to disaster
it is the reason why these people are taking this long and dangerous voyage to reach Europe in the first place
some of them even arrive now with fake Syrian passports made in Turkey

those who are staying in Calais, none of them are real refugees, they know if they'll apply the status they will be rejected
they are trying to reach the UK because it is easier to stay there in illegality

how long do you think this is going to last?
how do you think indogenous Europeans will react if they see more and more swarms are arriving?

 

[Vallicanus]

the registration takes only a few hours
if they are not rejected, refugee status is granted and they have the right to stay in Belgium permanently, get voting rights and full social security benefits
they can apply for Belgian nationality and they don't even have to give up their original nationality, they can keep both nationalities
unbelievable as you state yourself

attracting this swarm of refugees is going to lead to disaster
it is the reason why these people are taking this long and dangerous voyage to reach Europe in the first place
some of them even arrive now with fake Syrian passports made in Turkey

those who are staying in Calais, none of them are real refugees, they know if they'll apply the status they will be rejected
they are trying to reach the UK because it is easier to stay there in illegality

how long do you think this is going to last?
how do you think indogenous Europeans will react if they see more and more swarms are arriving?

I suspect most western Europeans lack the will to do anything about immigration, one way or another.

 

[bicicleur 2]

I suspect most western Europeans lack the will to do anything about immigration, one way or another.

it is because no European politicians ever have been held accountable for the consequences of their acts
the only thing they are afraid of is what will get into the press

as long as the press is their friend they get away with anything

and the press is going along with mass hysteria
they will realise the disaster only after it has allready happened

 

[Vallicanus]

What is the point of a political structure where the politicos are not accountable.

How does it differ from "dictatorship"?

 

[epoch]

it is because no European politicians ever have been held accountable for the consequences of their acts
the only thing they are afraid of is what will get into the press

as long as the press is their friend they get away with anything

and the press is going along with mass hysteria
they will realise the disaster only after it has allready happened

There is a reason the press is so blatantly pro-migrants. There is a code for journalists, the Code of Bordeaux. It consists of a number of rules, all of which are concerned with finding the truth and how to best represent it. It is considered the base of press ethics. However, years later, a new 9th article has been added which basically calls for journalists to do whatever is in their power to prevent discrimination on the basis of religion, race, sex, sexual orientation, language, nation and class.

The term "lugenpresse" is not entirely made up.

 

[bicicleur 2]

What is the point of a political structure where the politicos are not accountable.

How does it differ from "dictatorship"?

such politico has to remain popular in order to be re-elected, a dictator doesn't

 

[bicicleur 2]

There is a reason the press is so blatantly pro-migrants. There is a code for journalists, the Code of Bordeaux. It consists of a number of rules, all of which are concerned with finding the truth and how to best represent it. It is considered the base of press ethics. However, years later, a new 9th article has been added which basically calls for journalists to do whatever is in their power to prevent discrimination on the basis of religion, race, sex, sexual orientation, language, nation and class.

The term "lugenpresse" is not entirely made up.

when was the 9th article added and why ?

'lugenpresse' = political correctness ?

it seems article 9 has overruled all 8 previous articles

 

[bicicleur 2]

this is the refugee camp in Brussles in front of the registration office where they can apply for refugee status


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-OuT6PHOcU&feature=youtu.be


Belgians bring food and clothing and other necessities for the refugees
and allochtonous Belgians come to steal the goods

what a good symbiosis between different people in the same country, don't you think?
they are a real asset to the country, those allochtones