Immigration What should Europeans do with illegal immigrants?

[Vallicanus]

Epoch, there are none as blind as those who don't want to see.

 

[DejaVu]

Migrants Threw Christians Overboard, Italian Police Say
http://www.newsweek.com/migrants-threw-christians-overboard-italian-police-say-322825


GENEVA/PALERMO, Italy (Reuters) - Italian police arrested 15 African men suspected of throwing about a dozen Christians from a migrant boat in the Mediterranean on Thursday, as the crisis off southern Italy intensified.
Forty-one more deaths were reported in a separate incident.
Police in the Sicilian capital Palermo said they had arrested the men, from Ivory Coast, Mali and Senegal, after survivors reported they had thrown 12 people from Nigeria and Ghana to their deaths and threatened other Christians.
The 15 were arrested on charges of multiple homicide motivated by religious hatred.
"The motive for the resentment was traced to their faiths," police said. "Twelve people are said to have drowned in the waters of the Mediterranean, all of them Nigerian and Ghanaian."
The survivors' account underscores the rising chaos in the Mediterranean, which thousands of migrants, many fleeing war and deprivation in Africa, try to cross in rickety boats in the hope of a better life in Europe.
Around 20,000 migrants have reached the Italian coast this year, the International Organisation for Migration (IOM) estimates, fewer than arrived in the first four months of last year, but the number of deaths has risen almost nine-fold.
Almost 450 people are now thought to have died this week after rescued migrants brought to the Sicilian port of Trapani on Thursday said 41 others traveling with them had drowned.
About 400 died earlier this week when passengers crowded to one side of their boat, causing it to capsize, survivors said.
Traffickers take advantage of a breakdown of order in Libya to charge some $1,000 for every migrant to whom they give a passage. Some also turn violent, threatening coast guards with machine guns to avoid having their boats confiscated.
The murder suspects were among almost 100 migrants brought to Palermo on Wednesday. The arrests were made on the basis of testimony from about 10 survivors, who said they had left Libya in a rubber boat on Tuesday, police said.
Italy phased out a dedicated maritime search and rescue operation called "Mare Nostrum" or "Our Sea" late last year, making way for a European Union border control mission.
The EU operation, called Triton, has been criticized by humanitarian groups and Italian authorities as it has a much smaller budget and a narrower remit than Mare Nostrum.


Muslim migrants 'threw Christians overboard during row on boat from Libya to Italy', say police
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...row-on-boat-from-libya-to-italy-10184025.html


Muslim migrants threw 12 Christians overboard to their deaths because they were not praying to Allah when they asked God for help when their dinghy suffered a puncture
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3044584/Pray-Allah-ll-throw-overboard-Muslims-ordered-Christians-punctured-dinghy-African-migrants-sank-Mediterranean.html

 

[epoch]

@LeBrok

More proof that your theory on how immigrants are about to boost our economy is spectacularly flawed:

http://www.blu-news.org/2015/03/13/daenemark-asylanten-integration-gescheitert/

"Drei von vier Flüchtlingen, die in den frühen 2000er Jahren nach Dänemark kamen, sind zehn Jahre später arbeitslos. Der Dänische Arbeitgeberverband (DA) stellte eine Untersuchung an und kam dabei zu dem Ergebnis, dass die Bemühungen, Asylanten auf dem dänischen Arbeitsmarkt zu integrieren, als gescheitert angesehen werden müssen."

EDIT: It states that three out of four of the refugees that were admitted early 2000's in Denmark are still out of a job.

 

[gyms]

It is not about being paranoid, but lacking a plan what to do with this wave of refugees. It is a mess and solution is needed.

The most obvious way in which the US bears responsibility for ISIS's rise is the 2003 invasion of Iraq. The United States invaded Iraq, accidentally sparked a sectarian civil war, and generally created the conditions for what was then al-Qaeda in Iraq to flourish. Without the American invasion, al-Qaeda in Iraq never would have been so strong, and ISIS never would have grown out of it.
http://www.vox.com/2014/8/25/6065529/isis-rise

 

[Vallicanus]

The most obvious way in which the US bears responsibility for ISIS's rise is the 2003 invasion of Iraq. The United States invaded Iraq, accidentally sparked a sectarian civil war, and generally created the conditions for what was then al-Qaeda in Iraq to flourish. Without the American invasion, al-Qaeda in Iraq never would have been so strong, and ISIS never would have grown out of it.
http://www.vox.com/2014/8/25/6065529/isis-rise

Certainly ISIS was instigated by surviving members of Saddam Hussein's Baath Party.

Britain and France are to blame for the current migrant fiasco in Libya when they replaced Ghaddafi's admittedly bloody dictatorship with complete chaos. Berlusconi had a deal with Ghaddafi where in exchange for Italian aid Ghaddafi stopped sea crossings from Libya to Sicily.

The USA largely avoided the 2011 intervention in Libya so they can't be blamed for that.

 

[gyms]

According to International law refugees need to seek refuge in neighboring countries, not use their status to go to countries thousands of miles away, so for example, a Syrian ought to look for refuge in Jordan/Lebanon/Turkey, an Afghan in Iran/Pakistan/China, a Bosniak in Serbia/Croatia/Albania etc.

Abolutely right!

 

[gyms]

http://www.the-american-interest.com/2013/01/18/the-crisis-in-the-west/

The existing liberal democratic political institutions can neither halt the growth of social inequality nor guarantee social justice and legitimize the technocratic decision-making of the ruling elite, which is becoming increasingly distant from society at large. While American society is at least accustomed to social inequality at some level, Europeans have proven to be totally unprepared for the decline of the welfare state. The European crisis also turned out to be especially severe, insofar as the European community, which claims to be the only “normative power” in the world, has shown itself incapable of using normative values to preserve social stability or solve the social problems of the past decade (such as demographic decline, an aging population, migration, the failure of multiculturalism and others).

 

[LeBrok]

@LeBrok

More proof that your theory on how immigrants are about to boost our economy is spectacularly flawed:

http://www.blu-news.org/2015/03/13/daenemark-asylanten-integration-gescheitert/

"Drei von vier Flüchtlingen, die in den frühen 2000er Jahren nach Dänemark kamen, sind zehn Jahre später arbeitslos. Der Dänische Arbeitgeberverband (DA) stellte eine Untersuchung an und kam dabei zu dem Ergebnis, dass die Bemühungen, Asylanten auf dem dänischen Arbeitsmarkt zu integrieren, als gescheitert angesehen werden müssen."

EDIT: It states that three out of four of the refugees that were admitted early 2000's in Denmark are still out of a job.

I have 3 big proofs that it works very well. They are US, Canada and Australia. All 3 are built by immigrants, all 3 very successful economically, and they continue accept flow of immigrants. So if it doesn't work in Holland or Denmark, it is not a problem with migrants but with a system, or perhaps racism of employers.

 

[LeBrok]

The most obvious way in which the US bears responsibility for ISIS's rise is the 2003 invasion of Iraq. The United States invaded Iraq, accidentally sparked a sectarian civil war, and generally created the conditions for what was then al-Qaeda in Iraq to flourish. Without the American invasion, al-Qaeda in Iraq never would have been so strong, and ISIS never would have grown out of it.
http://www.vox.com/2014/8/25/6065529/isis-rise

And you can blame god for creating ISIS, because he create people who made ISIS. Seriously Dude, sooner or later Hussein would be dead and grass root forces would come to the surface and the hell broke loose anyway. US just accelerated the process making power vacuum. The Sunni/Shia hatred or religiosity fundamentalists were already there.
Look at Syria, local people created revolution not even waiting for Assad to die.

Are you an immigrant or kid of immigrants gyms?

 

[LeBrok]

Migrants Threw Christians Overboard, Italian Police Say
http://www.newsweek.com/migrants-threw-christians-overboard-italian-police-say-322825


Muslim migrants 'threw Christians overboard during row on boat from Libya to Italy', say police
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...row-on-boat-from-libya-to-italy-10184025.html


Muslim migrants threw 12 Christians overboard to their deaths because they were not praying to Allah when they asked God for help when their dinghy suffered a puncture
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3044584/Pray-Allah-ll-throw-overboard-Muslims-ordered-Christians-punctured-dinghy-African-migrants-sank-Mediterranean.html

Now you know how ugly religious hatred is, so why do you spread and propagate your hatred against Muslims?! What would Jesus do?
Are you immigrant or a kid of immigrant?

 

[LeBrok]

The most obvious way in which the US bears responsibility for ISIS's rise is the 2003 invasion of Iraq. The United States invaded Iraq, accidentally sparked a sectarian civil war, and generally created the conditions for what was then al-Qaeda in Iraq to flourish. Without the American invasion, al-Qaeda in Iraq never would have been so strong, and ISIS never would have grown out of it.
http://www.vox.com/2014/8/25/6065529/isis-rise

You would have Sunni/Shia war sooner or later, whether it was ISIS, al-Qaeda or other organization running the show. Hatred was already there, religious fundamentalism was already there, you had Kurds dreaming about independence already there. Iraq war was just an accelerator.

 

[LeBrok]

Lebrok has only liberal platitudes and anecdotal evidence to offer but no sensible solutions.

What are you blind? There are 5 solutions at the top of this page. You are yet to come up with out.

 

[bicicleur 2]

I have 3 big proofs that it works very well. They are US, Canada and Australia. All 3 are built by immigrants, all 3 very successful economically, and they continue accept flow of immigrants. So if it doesn't work in Holland or Denmark, it is not a problem with migrants but with a system, or perhaps racism of employers.

Australia, you say?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asylum_in_Australia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandatory_detention_in_Australia

There are no refugees coming to Australia because they are immeadiately sent back or put in jail.
If boat refugees would arrive to the US or Canada they would do exactly the same.

So if you are telling what Europeans should do, you're a bloody hypocrit.

 

[gyms]

I have 3 big proofs that it works very well. They are US, Canada and Australia. All 3 are built by immigrants, all 3 very successful economically, and they continue accept flow of immigrants. So if it doesn't work in Holland or Denmark, it is not a problem with migrants but with a system, or perhaps racism of employers.

US,Canada and Australia are not national states!Europe consist of...

 

[gyms]

Now you know how ugly religious hatred is, so why do you spread and propagate your hatred against Muslims?! What would Jesus do?
Are you immigrant or a kid of immigrant?

Yo are really confused

 

[LeBrok]

This is getting ridiculous, LeBrok. First you state that there are only 200.000 migrants and you present shoddy statistics to prove they all contribute to the economy. I counter with other statistics and now you come with... this. First of all, Europe is NOT an empire. Do read up on twentieth century history. Wars were fought about it and were LOST. You could have been born after the decolonization and be a grandfather today. Europe doesn't even have influence that much anymore. Secondly, the migrants don't go to their former colonizers but to the countries they expect the most free benefit from. Case in point: Sweden.

I never saw your statistics, try posting again. Look at US, Canada and Australia how successful immigrant countries are. What would be a better statistic than the whole successful country built by immigrants?

So enforcing asylum and immigration rules, as set by democratic governments, should simply not be done? Wow. Just wow.

Who said enforcing regulations and running whole process lawfully shouldn't be done? Vast majority of migrants in these cosmopolitan cities are legal. I'm sure you can go to New York and buy an apartment there to stay on visa. You don't need to be US citizen.

No, in mediaeval times it turned into war.

There were wars for many reasons, but the fact is that there were fewer restrictions to settle. The point was about law not about feelings.

May I ask why on earth you use such extreme shoddy reasoning? And why do you want this colonization attempt so badly to succeed?

Immigration laws already exist. The problem is that Europe is not ready, in many ways, for the volume of refugees. That creates the mess, bad treatment of people, crime and the paranoia. The solution must be found to this crisis. What is yours?
I'm suspecting that by calling it colonization, you hate the idea of immigration at any degree, right?

 

[DejaVu]

I never saw your statistics, try posting again. Look at US, Canada and Australia how successful immigrant countries are. What would be a better statistic than the whole successful country built by immigrants?

Who said enforcing regulations and running whole process lawfully shouldn't be done? Vast majority of migrants in these cosmopolitan cities are legal. I'm sure you can go to New York and buy an apartment there to stay on visa. You don't need to be US citizen.



There were wars for many reasons, but the fact is that there were fewer restrictions to settle. The point was about law not about feelings.

Immigration laws already exist. The problem is that Europe is not ready, in many ways, for the volume of refugees. That creates the mess, bad treatment of people, crime and the paranoia. The solution must be found to this crisis. What is yours?
I'm suspecting that by calling it colonization, you hate the idea of immigration at any degree, right?

Look at US, Canada and Australia how successful immigrant countries are. What would be a better statistic than the whole successful country built by immigrants?



Do you really know what you are talking about?
Do you think commiting genocide of Europe is the solution for succesful countries?
USA, Canada and Australia commited genocide against the native people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide_of_indigenous_peoples
This is one of the biggest crimes in history.

 

[Vallicanus]

What are you blind? There are 5 solutions at the top of this page. You are yet to come up with out.

I choose solution 3 then.

You begin as a rational and open-minded poster and you then become totally partisan in your posts.

DejaVu is correct.
Canada, USA and Australia, which you laud to the heavens largely eliminated their native populations in seas of blood before they became a Shangri-La for immigrants.

I trust you want the same fate for the poor, racist, obstructive indigenous Europeans.

The Anglophone world has so much blood on its hands that it makes the medieval Mongols look like Amnesty International.

 

[epoch]

I have 3 big proofs that it works very well. They are US, Canada and Australia. All 3 are built by immigrants, all 3 very successful economically, and they continue accept flow of immigrants. So if it doesn't work in Holland or Denmark, it is not a problem with migrants but with a system, or perhaps racism of employers.

Obviously, how could I not have thought this! Racism is to blame! Well, that implies that the US, Canada and Australia experience far less racism of employers.

But what is this? A report on racism by Canadian employers? No, impossible!

THE LAST AVAILABLE CENSUS DATA

before the federal government cancelled the country’s mandatory long form Census reveals a troubling trend in Canada. Despite years of unprecedented economic growth and an increasingly diverse population, this report confirms what so many Canadians have experienced in real life: a colour code is still at work in Canada’s labour market.

and

acialized men are 24% more likely to be unemployed than non-racialized men. Racialized women have it worse: They’re 48% more likely to be unemployed than non-racialized men. This may contribute to the fact that racialized women earn 55.6% of the income of non-racialized men

http://www.wellesleyinstitute.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Colour_Coded_Labour_MarketFINAL.pdf

and there is more:

http://well-being.esdc.gc.ca/misme-iowb/[email protected]?iid=16

Your argument falls apart there.

 

[Yetos]

I like your way of thinking.
I suggest :

Collect all refugees in a large camp of 100 km wide along the border.
Let ISIS have it's way till nobody else but ISIS is left in Syria and surroundings.
Then bomb the whole area till there is no more bloody ISIS people left.
Then empty the large refugee camp by sending them all back to where they came from.

A neat and clean solution, don't you think so?

well I Must agree, that this is main philosophy of how problem can be solved
away from details,
it is a good plan to save innocents continue their lives, and exterminated every islamofascist,