J-L70 - a much needed update

Azzurro said:
well we know of 2 Semitic branches that have been found in many sites, J1-Z1853 and J2b-M205, the tmrca of those branches suggest a Proto Semitic timeframe to be anywhere from 7100-5900 ybp.
Click to expand...

And to add, J-Z387's TMRCA fits.
 
SUPREEEEEME said:
Thanks - I have seen this paper before!

The issue that arises, is that most of these studies test for DYS445=6, which is a characteristic of all of J-Z387. So when a study does present data, it is reasonable to assume we're looking at a mix of J-L70 and J-FGC35503 - whereas my data is exclusively J-L70. Unfortunately in FTDNA's case, they don't have an adequate number of Cypriots tested.

Generally most of these studies have pretty small sample sizes (not the case for your Cypriot figure!), which is an additional limitation.
Click to expand...

You know in an era where NGS testing is the new norm, hopefully we can see a revisiting of these older studies and see some snp testing, to see which branches proliferated where. The Cypriot paper was an exception to being an excellent str study.
 
brick said:
Was the Viking also a Jew? You can't be sure of that.
Click to expand...

He didn’t even imply that, the viking was likely a descendant of someone from the South, like @Supreme said the sample had 20% Southern Euro like dna. L70 in Central, North and Western Europe is likely/possibly all attributable to Imperial Rome.
 
Azzurro said:
That is interesting how close are you distance wise to R136?
Click to expand...

pretty close below 5:smile:
( but most of my ancestery is western jewish):thinking:



[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]adam[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #70FF00, align: right"]3.30708331[/TD]
[TD]R136_Imperial_Era_Marcellino_&_Pietro[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #77FF00, align: right"]3.49104569[/TD]
[TD]R1544_Imperial_Era_Necropolis_of_Monte_Agnese[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #9DFF00, align: right"]4.61632971[/TD]
[TD]R64_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #9FFF00, align: right"]4.68362039[/TD]
[TD]R436_Imperial_Era_Palestrina[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #A2FF00, align: right"]4.75920161[/TD]
[TD]R53_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #A8FF00, align: right"]4.95236307[/TD]
[TD]R54_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #ABFF00, align: right"]5.03863077[/TD]
[TD]R114_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #AEFF00, align: right"]5.11934566[/TD]
[TD]R57_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #BEFF00, align: right"]5.58374426[/TD]
[TD]R65_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #CAFF00, align: right"]5.93626987[/TD]
[TD]R973_Medieval_Era_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #DBFF00, align: right"]6.42969673[/TD]
[TD]R35_Late_Antiquity_Celio[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E0FF00, align: right"]6.58944611[/TD]
[TD]R50_Imperial_Era_Centocelle_Necropolis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E2FF00, align: right"]6.64663073[/TD]
[TD]R49_Imperial_Era_Centocelle_Necropolis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #EEFF00, align: right"]6.99081540[/TD]
[TD]CrusaderKnightApuliaAbruzzoLebanonCrusaderSI53[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #F0FF00, align: right"]7.06589697[/TD]
[TD]R58_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #F2FF00, align: right"]7.10295713[/TD]
[TD]R56_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #F8FF00, align: right"]7.28116749[/TD]
[TD]R60_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FAFF00, align: right"]7.35566448[/TD]
[TD]R122_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FDFF00, align: right"]7.45313357[/TD]
[TD]R1548_Imperial_Era_Monterotondo[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFE00, align: right"]7.53091628[/TD]
[TD]R59_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFE00, align: right"]7.54059016[/TD]
[TD]R117_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFF100, align: right"]7.90899488[/TD]
[TD]R115_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFF000, align: right"]7.94520610[/TD]
[TD]R47_Imperial_Era_Centocelle_Necropolis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFEF00, align: right"]7.97989348[/TD]
[TD]R1290_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFED00, align: right"]8.02450622[/TD]
[TD]R121_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
kingjohn said:
pretty close below 5:smile:
( but most of my ancestery is western jewish):thinking:



[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]adam[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #70FF00, align: right"]3.30708331[/TD]
[TD]R136_Imperial_Era_Marcellino_&_Pietro[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #77FF00, align: right"]3.49104569[/TD]
[TD]R1544_Imperial_Era_Necropolis_of_Monte_Agnese[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #9DFF00, align: right"]4.61632971[/TD]
[TD]R64_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #9FFF00, align: right"]4.68362039[/TD]
[TD]R436_Imperial_Era_Palestrina[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #A2FF00, align: right"]4.75920161[/TD]
[TD]R53_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #A8FF00, align: right"]4.95236307[/TD]
[TD]R54_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #ABFF00, align: right"]5.03863077[/TD]
[TD]R114_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #AEFF00, align: right"]5.11934566[/TD]
[TD]R57_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #BEFF00, align: right"]5.58374426[/TD]
[TD]R65_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #CAFF00, align: right"]5.93626987[/TD]
[TD]R973_Medieval_Era_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #DBFF00, align: right"]6.42969673[/TD]
[TD]R35_Late_Antiquity_Celio[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E0FF00, align: right"]6.58944611[/TD]
[TD]R50_Imperial_Era_Centocelle_Necropolis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E2FF00, align: right"]6.64663073[/TD]
[TD]R49_Imperial_Era_Centocelle_Necropolis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #EEFF00, align: right"]6.99081540[/TD]
[TD]CrusaderKnightApuliaAbruzzoLebanonCrusaderSI53[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #F0FF00, align: right"]7.06589697[/TD]
[TD]R58_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #F2FF00, align: right"]7.10295713[/TD]
[TD]R56_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #F8FF00, align: right"]7.28116749[/TD]
[TD]R60_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FAFF00, align: right"]7.35566448[/TD]
[TD]R122_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FDFF00, align: right"]7.45313357[/TD]
[TD]R1548_Imperial_Era_Monterotondo[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFE00, align: right"]7.53091628[/TD]
[TD]R59_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFE00, align: right"]7.54059016[/TD]
[TD]R117_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFF100, align: right"]7.90899488[/TD]
[TD]R115_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFF000, align: right"]7.94520610[/TD]
[TD]R47_Imperial_Era_Centocelle_Necropolis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFEF00, align: right"]7.97989348[/TD]
[TD]R1290_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFED00, align: right"]8.02450622[/TD]
[TD]R121_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Click to expand...

I know your Syrian Jewish, Sephardi and Ashkenazi right? With some Bulgarian?

This makes sense, this sample based on examination looks to be half Southern Italian and half Cappadocian Greek like, so exactly what’d you’d expect on the East Med continuum, where Southern Italians, Western Jews, Greek Islanders and Cypriots plot.

Don’t know if its controversial here to say we are all in the same cluster.
 
I already got 4 infractions in one afternoon KingJohn your talking to a Eupedia’s most wanted

You don’t want to upset the mods you know!

They already banned Swiss Cheese guy wasn’t even here long enough for coffee.
 
Angela said:
Everything is to prove that some Jews or other Middle Easterners settled in Italy and left some y Dna behind. Whoop-de-doo. Can you imagine obsessing over crap like this?

Get a life, boys, if there is even more than one of you. Find a girl or a boy or another hobby. This is SO BORING! I come here less and less frequently because there's hardly anybody producing interesting content, or intelligent discussion. Pretty soon it's going to be like theapricity around here, with Sickeliot and his socks talking to each other and upvoting each other. :)
Click to expand...

Your the best you know that 👌🏼
 
Azzurro said:
I know your Syrian Jewish, Sephardi and Ashkenazi right? With some Bulgarian?
This makes sense, this sample based on examination looks to be half Southern Italian and half Cappadocian Greek like, so exactly what’d you’d expect on the East Med continuum, where Southern Italians, Western Jews, Greek Islanders and Cypriots plot.
Don’t know if its controversial here to say we are all in the same cluster.
Click to expand...

Yes i think r136 is belong to the C5 cluster
The east med one :cool-v:

P.s
I started to not write the mizrahi( in my signiture)
Since i score less than 2% mizrahi cluster
In my origins 3.0
same goes for my father who score the same extremely low % .
 
kingjohn said:
Yes i think r136 is belong to the C5 cluster
The east med one
P.s
I started to not write the mizrahi( in my signiture)
Since i score less than 2% mizrahi cluster
In my origins 3.0
same goes for my father who score the same extremely low % .
Click to expand...

Your thinking the Syrian Jewish side might be Sephardi origin?
 
Azzurro said:
Your thinking the Syrian Jewish side might be Sephardi origin?
Click to expand...

Yes mostly ( i also see it in my father matches
The non -aschenazi matches are with mexican and latin americans)
Buttom line i think syrian jews are different autosomally from iraqi jews
I thonk They cluster more with cyprus.....:thinking:
 
kingjohn said:
Yes mostly ( i also see it in my father matches
The non -aschenazi matches are with mexican and latin americans)
Buttom line i think syrian jews are different autosomally from iraqi jews
I thonk They cluster more with cyprus.....:thinking:
Click to expand...

It will probably depend on the individual community,
some Syrian Must’Arabi communities might be even more classical shifted like Samaritans Druze, and Lebanese.
 
I find this interesting, as one of my great-grandfathers was J2a-L70 (Greece). Our subclade is unknown, unfortunately. YFull has several L70 samples in the south Balkans: Albania, Bulgaria and Greece. Some or most of these have pretty old TMRCA’s. The autosomal test of this relative showed mostly south Balkans and some Italy, but that’s only from the last few hundred years. It would be interesting to know if the Romans brought it to the region. or if any of these branches went to Italy from the Balkans (or both).
 
Azzurro said:
It will probably depend on the individual community,
some Syrian Must’Arabi communities might be even more classical shifted like Samaritans Druze, and Lebanese.
Click to expand...

Yes
For sure
From my memory of aleppo jew kit
Back in the day it cluster with
cyprus :cool-v:
It could be that damascus jews are more eastern

P.s
My father score 7% maltese cluster there is got to be some
Med genes that he got from his dad...:thinking:
He also pass this maltese cluster to me
my mom don't score it at all
 
Ralphie Boy said:
I find this interesting, as one of my great-grandfathers was J2a-L70 (Greece). Our subclade is unknown, unfortunately. YFull has several L70 samples in the south Balkans: Albania, Bulgaria and Greece. Some or most of these have pretty old TMRCA’s. The autosomal test of this relative showed mostly south Balkans and some Italy, but that’s only from the last few hundred years. It would be interesting to know if the Romans brought it to the region. or if any of these branches went to Italy from the Balkans (or both).
Click to expand...

Maybe it spread to rest of europe
With the expansion of the roman empire:thinking:
 
Ralphie Boy said:
I find this interesting, as one of my great-grandfathers was J2a-L70 (Greece). Our subclade is unknown, unfortunately. YFull has several L70 samples in the south Balkans: Albania, Bulgaria and Greece. Some or most of these have pretty old TMRCA’s. The autosomal test of this relative showed mostly south Balkans and some Italy, but that’s only from the last few hundred years. It would be interesting to know if the Romans brought it to the region. or if any of these branches went to Italy from the Balkans (or both).
Click to expand...

Have you gotten your great grandfather’s Y tested through ftdna? There are currently several Greek lines under L70, with a couple under Z40772 and under Z2177. A lot of it is still mysterious for L70, ancient dna will provide the answer, I think its possible and likely some of the L70 in Greece could be as old as Iron Age, have you tested any deeper?
 
Azzurro said:
Have you gotten your great grandfather’s Y tested through ftdna? There are currently several Greek lines under L70, with a couple under Z40772 and under Z2177. A lot of it is still mysterious for L70, ancient dna will provide the answer, I think its possible and likely some of the L70 in Greece could be as old as Iron Age, have you tested any deeper?
Click to expand...

There has not been a deeper test, to my knowledge, only the basal clade L70 found at 23andMe. I only recently started to learn about the branch and am grateful to those who can do deep dives and report their findings.
B2B757CE-64D7-4F86-80F6-239899538F8D.jpg
 
Ralphie Boy said:
There has not been a deeper test, to my knowledge, only the basal clade L70 found at 23andMe. I only recently started to learn about the branch and am grateful to those who can do deep dives and report their findings.
View attachment 12626
Click to expand...

Have tried using Morley to see if any snps are called? I am not sure if 23&me tests any downstream snps of L70, I know the Old Nat Geo used to test. All depends on how much more information you want to know on this lineage, I would give Morley a try or upload the kit to Ftdna.
 
This is the other dude
From moots paper
1480-1490 Ad renaissance :cool-v:
https://yfull.com/tree/J-Z32056/
He cluster with south french provence autosomally
 
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