Politics "WOKE" America

[Salento]

Happy Columbus Day

 

[Wanderer]

Colombus wasn't italian
He never wrote in ligurian.
He wrote 90 percent of the time in spanish.
But he knew portuguese latin greek and hebrew.

Colombus left spain right before the expulsion of the jews.
He was part jewish

He never named one island or place in the carribean after a place in italy
But he did name them after places in spain and portugal
Including la hispanola, santa lucia, cuba, curacao ect.

He married a portuguese noble woman.
None of his children were born in italy.

So how could she marry a poor foreigner?
He was refered with the title of don in writing with spain before setting out to the new world

Also colombus did commit a genocide
He was striped of his title as a result of it by queen Isabella. But she died not too soon afterwords.
But you if you praised hitler [emoji848]
But colombus [emoji119]


He literally had nothing to do with america
He has statues everywhere but bartolome de las Casas doesn't. Why is that?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.in...-as-it-lays-claim-to-columbus-421487.html?amp

 

[Salento]

@Wanderer ...imho you’re repeating bias, resentment, jealousy, cultural appropriation, and racist anti-Italian propaganda.

It is not unique to Columbus, they’ve been doing it for years with the Romans, the Etruscans, the Latins, … they also do it to the Greeks, the Egyptians, and historical figures as Alexander, even to Hannibal and many more.

 

[Twilight]

Colombus wasn't italian
He never wrote in ligurian.
He wrote 90 percent of the time in spanish.
But he knew portuguese latin greek and hebrew.

Colombus left spain right before the expulsion of the jews.
He was part jewish

He never named one island or place in the carribean after a place in italy
But he did name them after places in spain and portugal
Including la hispanola, santa lucia, cuba, curacao ect.

He married a portuguese noble woman.
None of his children were born in italy.

So how could she marry a poor foreigner?
He was refered with the title of don in writing with spain before setting out to the new world

Also colombus did commit a genocide
He was striped of his title as a result of it by queen Isabella. But she died not too soon afterwords.
But you if you praised hitler [emoji848]
But colombus [emoji119]


He literally had nothing to do with america
He has statues everywhere but bartolome de las Casas doesn't. Why is that?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.in...-as-it-lays-claim-to-columbus-421487.html?amp

Bro, Columbus Day is celebrated in Latin America. If it weren?t for Columbus, Spain wouldn?t have dominated Central or South America in the first place.
If you want to gripe about Columbus, it would be more culturally appropriate to bring the issue up to the Mexican and Caribbean Community.

 

[Jovialis]

I enjoyed watching the Columbus Day Parade on TV with my family. It was the biggest event in size since the start of the pandemic, they said on the news.

 

[Jovialis]

^^I guess Italians still have some power in NYC, while cities like Boston are changing to indigenous peoples day.

 

[Angela]

@Wanderer ...imho you’re repeating bias, resentment, jealousy, cultural appropriation, and racist anti-Italian propaganda.

It is not unique to Columbus, they’ve been doing it for years with the Romans, the Etruscans, the Latins, … they also do it to the Greeks, the Egyptians, and historical figures as Alexander, even to Hannibal and many more.

Amen to that. Haters gonna hate.

It's a tragedy what happened to Amerindians, but the biggest problem was that they had no immunity to European diseases, something about which nothing could be done. Sooner or later they would come in contact with people from the other hemispheres.

As for the rest, it was the way of the world. The Aztecs built their own empire, and prisoners were sacrificed to their gods. Indian tribe fought Indian tribe. The New World was no Garden of Eden, and there are no "Noble Savages". That was romantic poppycock. There are just people, who have always acted just like people.

Look at what happened to Italy when Rome fell. Should we tell the Germans and Austrians to tear down all their statues of the "Holy Roman Emperors"? Maybe the Spanish should tear down all their statues to Charles V after how his troops despoiled Italy, his German troops even stabling their horses in St. Peter's. Or perhaps we should never put on another performance of Henry V because he tried to conquer France.

The fact remains that without his voyages there would be no U.S., no Spanish and Portuguese speaking countries in the Western Hemisphere. Without the Columbian Exchange, our lives would be completely different.

As for his not being Italian, it's nonsense. I'm 100% Italian, born and spent my childhood in Italy, but you'd be hard pressed to find any of my writings in Italian. Italians have often served foreign masters, because there was no unified Italy. Columbus worked for the Spanish, his crews were drawn from Spain, for certain people whose language he didn't know, he used Latin. So what? Was he going to write in a dialect obscure and unfathomable even to other Italians. People forget there actually was no "Italian" language in those days, only dialects useless if you went 50 miles in the case of Liguria.

 

[real expert]

Cancel culture dominates, it dictates resentment, envy (yes, hatred and stupidity);The white man conquered, colonized, enslaved - his achievements are to be desecrated. Civilization and Enlightenment are visibly despised: punished ... the rabble Marxism - element suppresses spirit, beauty, poetry, the individual, and intelligence.

The woke mob and elitists are now resorting to using another trick next to the race card. They just deny the existence of cancel culture, political correctness and the killing of free speech. Hence, you read all over the internet articles which emphatically assert, that PC and Cancel culture only exist in the minds of paranoid right-wingers and conspiracy theorists and ain't real.

 

[Jovialis]

I saw like 5 minutes of Dave Chappelle's new special when I passed by my brother's house. It looked really funny. I've always liked his comedy. However it seems that the media wants to scourge and crucify him for comments he made about transgenders and particularly cancel culture. CNN even compared him to Trump, which is like "literally Hitler", to these pinko-goobs.

 

[Jovialis]

Cancel culture dominates, it dictates resentment, envy (yes, hatred and stupidity);The white man conquered, colonized, enslaved - his achievements are to be desecrated. Civilization and Enlightenment are visibly despised: punished ... the rabble Marxism - element suppresses spirit, beauty, poetry, the individual, and intelligence.
The woke mob and elitists are now resorting to using another trick next to the race card. They just deny the existence of cancel culture, political correctness and the killing of free speech. Hence, you read all over the internet articles which emphatically assert, that PC and Cancel culture only exist in the minds of paranoid right-wingers and conspiracy theorists and ain't real.

They use an inversion of reality to gaslight the opposition. Woke propaganda keeps people asleep. They had to Crack down on the internet, and put the FBI against people with opposing views. I look forward to the end of this reign of terror; nothing lasts forever. One day, Wokeness will destroy itself like communism did before it, in the USSR. When you have a society based on an ideal rather than merit and pragmatism, it will eventually fail. One day, we will have our Chernobyl, which will lead to a collapse. The government will grow large and more impotent, more incompetent and corrupt. Corporations will fail, because instead of choosing the best, they will be forced to hire people based on their identity, which should be irrelevant. One day, the USA will most likely fragment into smaller states, I'd bet.

Everyone can blame the woke-left for the inevitable Balkanization of the USA. People who make a living from pulling at the strings of fabric that hold the country together. These people are basically assets of our rivals.

 

[Angela]

I'm interested to see what happens in the Virginia governor's race. My hunch is that the Democrats may lose in the suburbs again. It was suburbanite women, in particular, who gave the election to Biden.

Covid had one positive effect. Mothers saw what the schools were teaching their children in a detailed, comprehensive way, and what they are teaching them is Critical Race Theory. Worse yet, they see programs for the gifted and talented being eliminated in the name of equality. If some students aren't capable of doing above average work, then we'll just eliminate the programs and schools for the ones who can and that way the disparity won't be obvious. One pillar of the American Dream is that through intellectual excellence, through a meritocracy, you can rise and your children along with you. If parents really understand what is happening it just may motivate them to turn against the Democrats.

It should be obvious how disastrous a policy like this would be for the society as a whole; our entire way of life is at stake.

 

[Jovialis]

I'm interested to see what happens in the Virginia governor's race. My hunch is that the Democrats may lose in the suburbs again. It was suburbanite women, in particular, who gave the election to Biden.

Covid had one positive effect. Mothers saw what the schools were teaching their children in a detailed, comprehensive way, and what they are teaching them is Critical Race Theory. Worse yet, they see programs for the gifted and talented being eliminated in the name of equality. If some students aren't capable of doing above average work, then we'll just eliminate the programs and schools for the ones who can and that way the disparity won't be obvious. One pillar of the American Dream is that through intellectual excellence, through a meritocracy, you can rise and your children along with you. If parents really understand what is happening it just may motivate them to turn against the Democrats.

It should be obvious how disastrous a policy like this would be for the society as a whole; our entire way of life is at stake.

DeBlasio has been very destructive in his final days. He eliminated the gifted and talented program because there weren't enough People of Color (specifically Blacks and Hispanics), and too many Whites and Asians in the class. The children had to pass a test at 4 years old, which should be enough to prove to these fools that their talent and ability is inherit.

Now this numb-nuts mayor wants to get rid of Thomas Jefferson's statue, because he was a slave holder. Why doesn't DeBlasio also give back all of the money with the founding fathers printed on it, since they were slave holders too.

 

[Jovialis]

What kind of a future does this country have, when we are not honing the talent of our brightest youth? This country could fall in a generation.

 

[Ailchu]

As for the rest, it was the way of the world. The Aztecs built their own empire, and prisoners were sacrificed to their gods. Indian tribe fought Indian tribe. The New World was no Garden of Eden, and there are no "Noble Savages". That was romantic poppycock. There are just people, who have always acted just like people.

and in return, there are also no noble civilized people.

Look at what happened to Italy when Rome fell. Should we tell the Germans and Austrians to tear down all their statues of the "Holy Roman Emperors"? Maybe the Spanish should tear down all their statues to Charles V after how his troops despoiled Italy, his German troops even stabling their horses in St. Peter's. Or perhaps we should never put on another performance of Henry V because he tried to conquer France.

i'm not going to comment on whether people in america should have Columbus day or not, but that comparision is not exactly accurate. if those statues of germanic conquerors would be standing in italian cities because of large germanic populations still living there and admiring/celebrating those conquerors then it would be more comparable.

 

[Angela]

Ailchu;633067]and in return, there are also no noble civilized people.

As always, you completely miss my point, deliberately perhaps. I didn't say the Europeans were noble; that they weren't was a given. I also specifically added that "There are just people, who have always acted just like people.

Try to get over your bias against me and give me my due when warranted, as I do with you.

i'm not going to comment on whether people in america should have Columbus day or not, but that comparision is not exactly accurate. if those statues of germanic conquerors would be standing in italian cities because of large germanic populations still living there and admiring/celebrating those conquerors then it would be more comparable.

The only difference is that as an Italian citizen I have no power to compel the Germans to tear those statues down, even though we're all supposed to be Europeans living in one union, yes? Hell, as an Italian citizen I didn't even get the chance to force Germany to surrender the monsters in both the Wehrmacht and the SS to our justice system for their atrocities in Italy. Instead, they died of old age in their beds. I think that's a lot more important than some freaking statues.

Plus, Italians have a tendency to give even their conquerors their due, a trait I don't find altogether admirable; lots of statues of Frederick II around. They're quite fond of him in Foggia where he lived for much of his life and which he loved. Not so much in the cities of the north which grew out of the communes.

My point is that history is history. I object to anyone trying to obliterate signs of the past because they dislike it. It's like the Taliban toppling statues of the Buddha. I'll grant you I can see why people wouldn't want a statue of Jefferson Davis around, just as I wouldn't want one of Mussolini in Italy, although I don't mean to draw a comparison between the two as the scale is completely different. However, there's a point where you have to draw the line. Should all statues of the Kings of Savoy and their spouses be torn down because the last one was a weakling and a coward? Should the statues of all the kings and queens of the past be torn down because now we're a democracy?

To pretend that all the founding fathers had slaves or were even in favor of slavery is a lie, but it's a lie taught as part of this curriculum. The idiots writing that curriculum are either deliberately lying or they slept through their American history courses because they were stoned.

 

[Wanderer]

Edited for non respect of moderation.

 

[bigsnake49]

As always, you completely miss my point, deliberately perhaps. I didn't say the Europeans were noble; that was a given. I also specifically added that "There are just people, who have always acted just like people.

Try to get over your bias against me and give me my due when warranted, as I do with you.




The only difference is that as an Italian citizen I have no power to compel the Germans to tear those statues down, even though we're all supposed to be Europeans living in one union, yes? Hell, as an Italian citizen I didn't even get the chance to force Germany to surrender the monsters in both the Wehrmacht and the SS to our justice system for their atrocities in Italy. I think that's a lot more important than some freaking statues.

Plus, Italians have a tendency to give even their conquerors their due, a trait I don't find altogether admirable; lots of statues of Frederick II around. They're quite fond of him in Foggia where he lived for much of his life and which he loved. Not so much in the cities of the north which grew out of the communes.

My point is that history is history. I object to anyone trying to obliterate signs of the past because they dislike it. It's like the Taliban toppling statues of the Buddha. I'll grant you I can see why people wouldn't want a statue of Jefferson Davis around, just as I wouldn't want one of Mussolini in Italy, although I don't mean to draw a comparison between the two as the scale is completely different. However, there's a point where you have to draw the line. Should all statues of the Kings of Savoy and their spouses be torn down because the last one was a weakling and a coward? Should the statues of all the kings and queens of the past be torn down because now we're a democracy?

To pretend that all the founding fathers had slaves or were even in favor of slavery is a lie, but it's a lie taught as part of this curriculum. The idiots writing that curriculum are either deliberately lying or they slept through their American history courses because they were stoned.

Not all the founding fathers were racists but a hell of a lot of them were. Even George Washington was but he freed his because he thought that slavery was not economically sustainable, not for any moral reasons. Slavery was debated hotly during the Constitutional Convention. Without the following articles and clauses protecting slavery there would have been no Constitution and no United States.

Article I, Section. 2 [Slaves count as 3/5 persons]
Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons [i.e., slaves].
Article I, Section. 9, clause 1. [No power to ban slavery until 1808]
The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a Tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person.
Article IV, Section. 2. [Free states cannot protect slaves]
No Person held to Service or Labour in one State, under the Laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in Consequence of any Law or Regulation therein, be discharged from such Service or Labour, but shall be delivered up on Claim of the Party to whom such Service or Labour may be due.
Article V [No Constitutional Amendment to Ban Slavery Until 1808]
...No Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article.

 

[Wanderer]

Edited for non-response to moderation.

 

[Angela]

Not all the founding fathers were racists but a hell of a lot of them were. Even George Washington was but he freed his because he thought that slavery was not economically sustainable, not for any moral reasons. Slavery was debated hotly during the Constitutional Convention. Without the following articles and clauses protecting slavery there would have been no Constitution and no United States.

Article I, Section. 2 [Slaves count as 3/5 persons]
Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons [i.e., slaves].
Article I, Section. 9, clause 1. [No power to ban slavery until 1808]
The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a Tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person.
Article IV, Section. 2. [Free states cannot protect slaves]
No Person held to Service or Labour in one State, under the Laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in Consequence of any Law or Regulation therein, be discharged from such Service or Labour, but shall be delivered up on Claim of the Party to whom such Service or Labour may be due.
Article V [No Constitutional Amendment to Ban Slavery Until 1808]
...No Amendment which may be made prior to the Year One thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any Manner affect the first and fourth Clauses in the Ninth Section of the first Article.

Well, there's a precise statement for you: a hell of a lot of them were...

Thank you Mr. Obvious. Anyone who has taken American History knows that some of the signers of the Constitution were in favor of slavery and that's why those clauses are in the Constitution.

A debate takes two opposing sides, or doesn't it?

How do the opinions of one side of the debate invalidate the efforts of those who wanted it banned, at a time when in many places in the Americas it was still being practiced? Hell, how much better was the serfdom practiced until the early part of the 20th century in Eastern Europe.

Indeed, how does that invalidate what I said, which is that our children are being taught that all the Founding Fathers were slave owners and/or were in favor of slavery? That ok with you? You don't think that's a lie?

Get a grip and give some thought to the times in which they lived, and stop judging the people of the past by the standards of today. Give them the credit for being eons ahead of where other political ideologies wound up, which was using the guillotine to bring about democracy.

As for Washington, you besmirch him by using a simplistic reduction of what was a complicated man and situation. If one reads his private papers as well as the public ones, one can see that his attitude toward slavery changed over the course of his lifetime. He started out a typical southerner of his time, born into slavery, just as much as his slaves were born into it. Over time that changed. " Moral doubt about the institution first appeared in 1778 when Washington expressed reluctance to sell some of his enslaved workers at a public venue or split their families. At war’s end, Washington demanded without success that the British respect the preliminary peace treaty which he said required return of escaped slaves without exception. His public statement on resigning his commission, addressing challenges facing the new confederation, made no explicit mention of slavery. Politically, Washington felt that the divisive issue of American slavery threatened national cohesion, and he never spoke publicly about it. Privately, Washington considered plans in the mid 1790s to free his enslaved population. Those plans failed because of his inability to raise the finances necessary, the refusal of his family to approve emancipation of the dower slaves, and his own aversion to separating enslaved families. His will was widely published upon his death in 1799, and provided for the emancipation of the enslaved population he owned, one of the few slave-owning founders to set them free. Because many of his slaves were married to the dower slaves, whom he could not legally free, the will stipulated that, except for his valet William Lee who was freed immediately, his enslaved workers be emancipated on the death of his wife Martha. She freed them in 1801, a year before her own death, but she had no option to free the dower slaves, who were inherited by her grandchildren."

You might try reading his actual will. I found it quite moving.

We also fought the deadliest war in our history because of slavery, brother against brother, on our own soil. Is that still not enough for you? Or do you want to debate me about whether Lincoln just wanted to save the Union rather than free the slaves? Given the simplicity of your analysis of Washington, I don't doubt it. You'll lose. I've read dozens of books on Lincoln and I assure you I know him and his motivations for every statement he made far better than you do.

Maybe you should go and tell the cities in England which grew fat and rich on the cotton from southern cotton fields to fuel their cloth mills to pay reparations too, or maybe a better idea would be to concentrate on the Arab and African countries where slavery is actually still practiced.

Americans in name only like you make me tired. I have no time to waste in debating people who because of their own indoctrination will oversee the downfall of this country.

WOKEDOM will be the death of this country, and that will be because people like you just don't get it.

 

[Wanderer]

You wont let me speak. You gave me infraction when I havnt responded. IE my first statement. And you edit my posts and censor me...