I can add this post which sums my current position up:
DukaThere are E-V13 samples found that shift towards Illyrians or plot like Illyrians or close which they try to explain away.
That's what you need to understand: These Illyrian-like samples are regional outliers, usually from territories which received Daco-Thracian migrants more often, like e.g. Northern Croatia.
The Albanian branches on the other hand are from the Northern E-V13 block
ONLY! Vast majority of E-V13 in Albanians is E-Z5018 and E-Z5017 and effectively its nearly all E-S2979 and E-CTS9320. This is a very specific profile of branches practically no found in Illyrians or South Thracians, but coming from the Danubian zone and Northward.
And we know from the samples of the last year(s) that the bulk of these people was still purely Daco-Thracian at least around 0-200 AD, with remaining tribes and groups up at least to about 500-600 AD. This implies it is way more likely that there was a late, Roman era, massive pulse migration.
I might repeat the numbers I posted in the E-V13 thread:
E-Z5018 alone has:
5 major
5 minor
in total 10 founder branches at the minimum.
Keep in mind I didn't count singleton Albanian testers., e.g. Albanians from Vlach branches if recent/singleton were included.
If we add central-Northern E-Z5017:
2 major
6 minor
in total 8
Plus one founder lineage which is from another E-V13 branch.
Starting 0-100 AD this implies 19 lineages which survived into modernity. R-PH970 is one and J-L283:
By comparison (keep in mind that's all just a rough estimate based on YFull data - might be +/- 2) J-283 has:
2 major
3 minor
in total 5 (maximal 8 if counting younger ones)
This means we can say that if counting surviving clan lineages, its is 19 : less than 10 for J-L283 and R-PH970 combined. In any case, it is absolutely clear that E-V13 made up more than half of the early Roman period core lineages of Albanians which survived into modernity. Not all of them might have been Proto-Albanians, some might have been Vlach, Slavic or whatever, but the numbers are pretty impressive nevertheless.
And there is no way that by chance all more recent Medieval founders were E-V13 in Albanians, because there was no population which was as dominated by E-V13 in those later periods any more. Such a pattern is therefore highly unlikely to be just chance.
We therefore can, based on the currently available evidence, safely assume that there was a massive Daco-Thracian or Daco-Roman pulse migration into a territory which was either inhabited by Illyrians or Romanised Illyrians. And this moment,
when these E-V13 clans arrived, is the defining moment for the Proto-Albanian ethnogenesis.
This is a fact, which will stay, regardless of whether Albanian can be linguistically derived from Illyrian, Messapic, Dacian, Thraican, Paeonian or whatever. It doesn't matter, because that's the genetic formation of the population. There was no population which can be considered Albanian before this moment, but just ingredients from which Albanian was formed in the process.
Now the main discussion point still open, is, who gave the language? The incoming E-V13 Daco-Thracians, the Illyrians they met, or an unknown group - or was it a hybrid?
The odd thing is if one side is so clearly dominant, with so many clans, like the Daco-Thracian/Daco-Roman E-V13 group, why they adopted a language which was at least largely not their own, but that of local Illyrians. But, its possible and there are different scenarios in which it could work out if being true in the first place.
One scenario is that the E-V13 Daco-Thracians/Daco-Romans didn't come all at once. Like there were multiple pulse migrations and when the last one came, the first were already assimilated. Even in that scenario, you don't need a very long period to achieve it, but just a couple of generations in between.
Like we see in the Akbari samples that the incoming Dacian E-V13 lineages have a high proportion of descendants which are so heavily mixed, that they are almost unrecognisable autosomally. And that happened in 100-200 years! Assuming a similar scenaro for the Albanians, if the E-V13 clans came in piece mail, like first resettled Dacians, then Daco-Romans, then Daco-Carpic, they could have been assimilated even if making up about 50 % of the lineages and being clearly the dominant factor eventually.
Therefore my proposal for the Proto-Albanian formation are by now two alternatives:
Scenario 1: Proto-Albanian is a primarily Dacian language introduced by a massive pulse migration of E-V13 males which assimilated local Romanised Illyrians.
Scenaro 2: Proto-Albanian is a primarily Illyrian language introduced by a surviving core group of J-L283 Illyrians which allied up and assimilated waves of incoming Dacian/Daco-Roman E-V13 clans.
At this point any other scenario became infinitely less likely.
In both cases I wouldn't speak of Proto-Albanian people proper before the fusion, because it was a fundamentally different people before. The fusion is likely to have happened somewhere between 0-400 AD, because that's when the Northern E-V13 clans seem to have spread massively in the Balkans. Like the Akbari archaeogenetic window shows us 0-200 AD - because 1800 BP the first were already mixed, but the majority still pure, implying they didn't arrive many generations before.
The 1800 BP sampels have the same largely unmixed profile as individuals from 1300-800 BC without significant foreign admixture. We can therefore say that the core of E-V13 had at the minimum an existence from 1400 BC to 500 AD, possibly extending to 3200 BC to 600 AD (from Cotofeni to last remnants of Daco-Carpic and Thracian groups being incorporated into other groups).
Note that Daco-Carpic tribes were fought by the Romans at least up to the 4th century AD, therefore they existed as distinct political-tribal entities up to the 4th century AD MINIMUM. And the ancient authors mention them having settlements of their own, ethnic Daco-Carpic settlements in the Balkans, in the 4-5th century AD.
By that time there were no Illyrian tribal entities of significance in existence any more. Or there is very little evidence for it. We therefore know with certainty that there were ethnic Dacian communities in the Balkans, which are likely to have used their own idiom. This is not conjecture and speculative, but was noted by various authors.
In 295–96 Diocletian and Galerius stepped in again to stabilise the Danubian border and definitively solve the problem of the Carpi, who were uprooted and deported en masse south of the river. Coeval sources stress the size of this operation, which would have entailed transferring the “entire population of the Carpi” towards Romania, and its exemplarily punitive nature.14More recent studies instead note that this deportation must not have been total, because further roundups were conducted in the years that followed. Nevertheless, there is no doubt that with respect to previous deportations, the one organised by the Tetrarchy was far more systematic, although the culture of the Carpi was not wiped out entirely.15Archaeological findings confirm the presence of Carpic settlements in the 4th century, at least in the central and southern areas of Hungary.16
Occasional reports from later periods and archaeological findings indicate that the deportees were resettled close to the military encampments of the Danubian limes.
In Moesia there were still villages of Carpi – ethnically recognisable – at the time of Valens’ wars against the Ostrogoths 70 or 80 years later. AmmianusMarcellinus’ report thus becomes even more valuable, as it confirms that the immigrants were essentially installed as compact communities, a conclusion often reached by archaeologists independently of literary sources.17
Source:
https://www.researchgate.net/public...and_the_transformation_of_the_Pannonian_limes
The question was always, why have the Albanians so few Romanised Anatolian and South Thracian influences and especially patrilineages? If the source was a fairly tribal Dacian/Carpic people, which would fit perfectly with the Northern E-V13 branches, it would make way more sense.
And if these tribal Dacian people were coming in, they likely still spoke their own language which at the very least should have influenced the Albanian idiom, if it's not its primary source (under the assumption of the local Illyrian language tradition being decisive).
The idea of later Romanised groups or early Thracian substrate groups became with the recent Akbari results much more unlikely. Because usually, if you see such a clear pattern in one place, in two places (unknown Akbari set and Viminacium), you likely will find it in a 3rd, 4th and in the end in many, many places of the Balkans. There was just a massive redistribution, over generations, of Dacian males throughout the Carpatho-Balkan sphere from Hungary down to Greece. The ancient authors speak at diffferent occasions of 50.000, 10.000, 20.000 etc. individuals at various occasions being resettled.
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