Immigration What should Europeans do with illegal immigrants?

bicicleur said:
explain yourself
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What I meant was that the land could produce food products if currently it is not being farmed. I admit that it begs the question, why did people leave the villages in the first place. Was the land depleted of resources to grow food? Was it dangerous to live there (predators)? If it was simply that there were no jobs? I could survive without income if I could grow my own food and not pay taxes. So maybe a tax forgiveness program for 'x' number of years until the settlers could develop jobs to earn income to pay taxes and/or purchase other needs.

I think what most of us forget is that many times they have a subsistence living on land that has been over-farmed or no way of getting water to the crops that they grow (that is if we are talking about arid country immigrants).
 
Wheal said:
What I meant was that the land could produce food products if currently it is not being farmed. I admit that it begs the question, why did people leave the villages in the first place. Was the land depleted of resources to grow food? Was it dangerous to live there (predators)? If it was simply that there were no jobs? I could survive without income if I could grow my own food and not pay taxes. So maybe a tax forgiveness program for 'x' number of years until the settlers could develop jobs to earn income to pay taxes and/or purchase other needs.

I think what most of us forget is that many times they have a subsistence living on land that has been over-farmed or no way of getting water to the crops that they grow (that is if we are talking about arid country immigrants).
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I don't think these illegal immigrants are interested in that kind of lifestyle, nor do they posses the knowledge and the skills to develop it.
Most of them are atracted by stories and false promises made by human trafickers to whom they paid a lot of money to organise their illegal journeys.
Also remember that Europe is much more densely populated than America.
 
bicicleur said:
I don't think these illegal immigrants are interested in that kind of lifestyle .........
Most of them are atracted by stories and false promises .....
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And self-perpetual rumours about us, our women, sex, and getting free money, housing, cars, etc.
 
Let's be serious and sincere five second right here. What european people especially male, are scared off. Is that white women going with black male. Why nobody clearly say it for the sake of. There is no shame on that and if you think its shameful to be conservative you should look at yourself. Dont try to put on the debat other human exemple and especially natural selection... Every human has the volontee and culture, to do what they think, but no they all just look at nature, sexuality, kids... North american should not talk about european futur, you are white maybe but not european, your history, is not ours, stay on your own shit. There is clearly some universel problem, like sea level rise, climate or demography. Thats cultural, is not by being sweet with migrants that you won against those fights. In conclusion, you should never be ashamed of what you think, never.
 
Its just like african american who always talks about africa, you are not african, nobody wants you in africa, especially if you look at Liberia history. Why nobody understand that ? Because north america... That country in his entierty is build on opportunism, wich is very pejorativ, opprtunist economic migrants, opportunist young european or world wide students, opportunist people for the " american dream ". You are not and never gonna be an exemple in anything, you should understand that, if you were not so autocenter.
 
halfalp said:
Let's be serious and sincere five second right here. What european people especially male, are scared off. Is that white women going with black male. Why nobody clearly say it for the sake of. There is no shame on that and if you think its shameful to be conservative you should look at yourself. Dont try to put on the debat other human exemple and especially natural selection... Every human has the volontee and culture, to do what they think, but no they all just look at nature, sexuality, kids... North american should not talk about european futur, you are white maybe but not european, your history, is not ours, stay on your own shit. There is clearly some universel problem, like sea level rise, climate or demography. Thats cultural, is not by being sweet with migrants that you won against those fights. In conclusion, you should never be ashamed of what you think, never.
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Don't extrapolate your own insecurities on the whole male population. It might be true that many or most white males think this way, especially the ones who grew up in uniformly white culture, but also there are many who don't care about this. Years ago, when fresh in Canada, I could caught myself perceiving multi racial relations as unusual and weird thing, but now having friends of all colours and faiths, I really don't care and it became normal. It is strictly cultural issue and tribalism at its worse.
 
halfalp said:
Its just like african american who always talks about africa, you are not african, nobody wants you in africa, especially if you look at Liberia history. Why nobody understand that ? Because north america... That country in his entierty is build on opportunism, wich is very pejorativ, opprtunist economic migrants, opportunist young european or world wide students, opportunist people for the " american dream ". You are not and never gonna be an exemple in anything, you should understand that, if you were not so autocenter.
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Again same mistake. You think that people think and feel like you. But if they saying otherwise they must be lying, being deceptive on purpose or politically correct. Well, you are wrong.
 
I mean, your not European, what would you know of us. My insecurities is the same as the others, because countrary to you. I dont stay on my own position i talk to my friend, on forums, on chats. The same inference came in.
 
halfalp said:
Let's be serious and sincere five second right here. What european people especially male, are scared off. Is that white women going with black male. Why nobody clearly say it for the sake of. There is no shame on that and if you think its shameful to be conservative you should look at yourself. Dont try to put on the debat other human exemple and especially natural selection... Every human has the volontee and culture, to do what they think, but no they all just look at nature, sexuality, kids... North american should not talk about european futur, you are white maybe but not european, your history, is not ours, stay on your own shit. There is clearly some universel problem, like sea level rise, climate or demography. Thats cultural, is not by being sweet with migrants that you won against those fights. In conclusion, you should never be ashamed of what you think, never.
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That is utterly ridiculous.
 
I really wonder what kind of " north american " could being vote at. Welcome them and let them select a destination country. Its like be a therapeut and say to a couple you have to love each other, this is childish. Like we say in french there is no forest without fire. Between the end of URSS and the stability of the world, nobody thinks of innovation, no they all think of unprogressiv ideas that just make us gonna thousand of years earlier. Lets be some good democrate ( nazi propagandist ) and lets go asking to eleven old years kid what they think of Trump, yes beautiful politic, and demagogy. I'm glad you are just a buisness related country, hope your futur s'gonna be full of love
 
Tomenable said:
Probably everyone knows this:

2D0423FA00000578-3258298-image-a-84_1443828958686.jpg


And here, you can see the real story behind this photo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIZ2GzStjys#t=154

:cry:
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Too much truth.
 
I really like how LeBrok " offering " desert village and house to immigrate in his mind... I wonder in what world do you live to act like somebody who has something to say or act. Like yes, just put 10 thousand random ethnic peoples in a desert village for create an obvious communautarism. Do you actually think what you saying ? Are you everyday on Oxycodon or PCP ?
 
Wheal said:
What I meant was that the land could produce food products if currently it is not being farmed. I admit that it begs the question, why did people leave the villages in the first place. Was the land depleted of resources to grow food? Was it dangerous to live there (predators)? If it was simply that there were no jobs? I could survive without income if I could grow my own food and not pay taxes. So maybe a tax forgiveness program for 'x' number of years until the settlers could develop jobs to earn income to pay taxes and/or purchase other needs.

I think what most of us forget is that many times they have a subsistence living on land that has been over-farmed or no way of getting water to the crops that they grow (that is if we are talking about arid country immigrants).
Click to expand...

That is happening in Italy to some extent, even in my own area. It's more a question of "squatting", to use the American term, rather than actual deeded right to the land or a government program.

It's not a real, long-term solution, however. First of all, many of the refugees from the Middle East and even from North Africa are urban people, not farmers. The African ones, who may indeed be farmers, are unfamiliar with European soil, plants, etc, as are Afghanis. Then there's the fact that flat, fertile land with good connections to markets has not been abandoned. That;s premium real estate, although Italy has very little of it, anyway; it's a very mountainous country. It has been importing food for its own people for thousands of years, back to the Romans.

Those villages were inhabited by subsistence farmers or tenant farmers who barely made it from crop to crop. Most people don't want to live like that anymore. Homesteading is not something that appeals to the majority of people, whether rightly or wrongly. I have to say I personally am rather taken with it, and the whole "tiny footprint" and off the grid movement, but most people aren't.

Also, as Bicicleur pointed out, the immigrants are lured by talk of benefits, money on the streets. The vast majority don't want to stay in Italy, and while they are in Italy, they're squatting in urban areas, like the Olympic Village in Torino. Most of them want to go to France or Germany or Austria or Scandinavia, although when they get to Scandinavia they're often not happy there either.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4741358/Is-Italy-trigger-migrant-nuclear-option.html

I'm sorry to say it, but most of these economic refugees should be repatriated to their home countries. Europe, and especially Italy, is not equipped to absorb them economically, without discussing any other issues.
 
Angela said:
That is happening in Italy to some extent, even in my own area. It's more a question of "squatting", to use the American term, rather than actual deeded right to the land or a government program.

It's not a real, long-term solution, however. First of all, many of the refugees from the Middle East and even from North Africa are urban people, not farmers. The African ones, who may indeed be farmers, are unfamiliar with European soil, plants, etc, as are Afghanis. Then there's the fact that flat, fertile land with good connections to markets has not been abandoned. That;s premium real estate, although Italy has very little of it, anyway; it's a very mountainous country. It has been importing food for its own people for thousands of years, back to the Romans.

Those villages were inhabited by subsistence farmers or tenant farmers who barely made it from crop to crop. Most people don't want to live like that anymore. Homesteading is not something that appeals to the majority of people, whether rightly or wrongly. I have to say I personally am rather taken with it, and the whole "tiny footprint" and off the grid movement, but most people aren't.

Also, as Bicicleur pointed out, the immigrants are lured by talk of benefits, money on the streets. The vast majority don't want to stay in Italy, and while they are in Italy, they're squatting in urban areas, like the Olympic Village in Torino. Most of them want to go to France or Germany or Austria or Scandinavia, although when they get to Scandinavia they're often not happy there either.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4741358/Is-Italy-trigger-migrant-nuclear-option.html

I'm sorry to say it, but most of these economic refugees should be repatriated to their home countries. Europe, and especially Italy, is not equipped to absorb them economically, without discussing any other issues.
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I wonder why it took politicians so many years to understand this.
Actually, many still don't, but now these see their votes and political power dwindling.
 
@Angela and @bicicleur, I do understand that. Honestly, it's a problem that just doesn't have a good solution because as others have said, it's not fair to automatically be provided benefits that give, in some cases an equal quality of life to those who are income producing and paying more and more taxes.
 
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