Immigration What should Europeans do with illegal immigrants?

[Vallicanus]

It doesn't make sense. I'm offering empty villages and empty homes, not your home, not someone home. The houses are empty!

You are very presumptuous.

The houses and villages are not yours to give away!~

 

[Vallicanus]

Look at the millions already accepted..., and the West is didn't fall.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_immigrant_population

Yes, but look at all the western cities with social problems concentrated in certain districts.

I repeat, are you willing to take in at least ONE refugee and put your money where your mouth is?

 

[bicicleur 2]

It doesn't make sense. I'm offering empty villages and empty homes, not your home, not someone home. The houses are empty!

I'm afraid you're contradicting yourself.
Why would there be empty villages? Because there are no jobs in the area.


And then you come with statistics saying these people will come and get a job and be productive, not depend on welfare.

As Kardu mentions, Europe must change it's laws.
According to European law, if a country grants an applicant the status of refugee, the very same day this person gets all rights on social welfare of that country, without having worked a single day. After having received the status of refugee, the state can never take back these rights again.

In most European countries, the inhabitants who were born there don't have that right without having worked and contributed to the system first.

This is not right, and if it don't change it will not be accepted by European citizens either, they will revolt against this.

A refugee should first prove he's willing and capable to integrate in European society before granting such definitive rights.
I don't know, but I've been told in the US there is a trial periode of 10 years before recieving full citizenship with all its rights.

By the way, your phrasing of the thread is not correct.
An illegal immigrant is someone who does not apply for refugee status or is rejected.

I can be short on that.
These people should be removed from Europe immeadiately, IMO even by force and never ever again be allowed to enter European territory again.

 

[John Doe]

According to International law refugees need to seek refuge in neighboring countries, not use their status to go to countries thousands of miles away, so for example, a Syrian ought to look for refuge in Jordan/Lebanon/Turkey, an Afghan in Iran/Pakistan/China, a Bosniak in Serbia/Croatia/Albania etc.

 

[Yetos]

I believe the solution is to stop the war in their countries,

by making embargo in all amunition and warfare industries

 

[LeBrok]

You are very presumptuous.

The houses and villages are not yours to give away!~

Not yours either not to give.

 

[LeBrok]

Yes, but look at all the western cities with social problems concentrated in certain districts.

I repeat, are you willing to take in at least ONE refugee and put your money where your mouth is?

And being Canadian I'm accepting refugees and building homes for them.

 

[LeBrok]

According to International law refugees need to seek refuge in neighboring countries, not use their status to go to countries thousands of miles away, so for example, a Syrian ought to look for refuge in Jordan/Lebanon/Turkey, an Afghan in Iran/Pakistan/China, a Bosniak in Serbia/Croatia/Albania etc.

And they are, there is few millions of Syrians living in camps in Turkey, Lebanon and Jordan. Perhaps one in a hundred chooses to go farther to Europe. It means that they like Europe very much.
Europe might be getting the brave, adventurous and more educated, who speak few languages.

 

[LeBrok]

I believe the solution is to stop the war in their countries,

by making embargo in all amunition and warfare industries

Who knows, European countries might be "encourage" now to end ISIS and Assad problem. Boots on ground, sort to speak.

 

[LeBrok]

I'm afraid you're contradicting yourself.
Why would there be empty villages? Because there are no jobs in the area.

It is a different problem all together. I would let refuges to decide if village life is not good for them. European villages, Canadian too, are empty because young people left for easier life in cities. Alberta, my Canadian province, takes 50 thousand temporary workers every year from Mexico to work just on farms, because even unemployed canadians don't want to take these hard and dirty jobs.
Now, we are talking about poor refugees who are used to heavy work in Syria, right? They would take these villages any day instead of sitting in refugee camps or dying in trucks.

And then you come with statistics saying these people will come and get a job and be productive, not depend on welfare.

UK government came up with these numbers not me. Why would you believe anecdotal evidence instead?

As Kardu mentions, Europe must change it's laws.
According to European law, if a country grants an applicant the status of refugee, the very same day this person gets all rights on social welfare of that country, without having worked a single day. After having received the status of refugee, the state can never take back these rights again.

If they get a criminal record they will be deported, otherwise why would you do that to good citizens?

In most European countries, the inhabitants who were born there don't have that right without having worked and contributed to the system first.

All unable to work people will receive welfare payments and their kids too in every civilized country.

This is not right, and if it don't change it will not be accepted by European citizens either, they will revolt against this.

I never said it is right or wrong. There is a situation and it needs a solution, unlike the mess that EU faces now.

A refugee should first prove he's willing and capable to integrate in European society before granting such definitive rights.
I don't know, but I've been told in the US there is a trial periode of 10 years before recieving full citizenship with all its rights.

I'm not sure about US, but in Canada it is 3 years and you are a citizen. Can you elaborate what you mean by integration? Do they need to change religion and become Christians? Give up sticks and eat with spoons, in case of some Asians? Follow the western fashion?
I can understand some obvious things like learning a local language, or having just one wife, but I'm not sure about importance of other things for integration. By some standards some old European dudes need some integration to new world, or even Ukrainians who would like to live in Spain.

By the way, your phrasing of the thread is not correct.
An illegal immigrant is someone who does not apply for refugee status or is rejected.

They are cumming/landing illegally in Greece and Italy right? After entering illegally they receive a "refugee status". At some point they are illegal, and at some point they are legal. I'm not talking about immigrant who applies for a refugee status abroad in Asia and Africa and waits for acceptance before taking a flight to destination country. In such case they are legal all the way.

I can be short on that.
These people should be removed from Europe immeadiately, IMO even by force and never ever again be allowed to enter European territory again.

I understand that. Where would you remove them too and how they would get there? Points 3 and 4.

 

[Boreas]

I believe the solution is to stop the war in their countries,

by making embargo in all amunition and warfare industries

Definitely I agreed

"no arm trade" is best solution, and not helping dictators just for term interest.

 

[Vallicanus]

And being Canadian I'm accepting refugees and building homes for them.

This is mere sophistry.

I meant take a refugee into your house. A German citizen has done just that recently.

 

[Vallicanus]

Not yours either not to give.

This is a very immature riposte.

Truly, it is!~~

 

[bicicleur 2]

It is a different problem all together. I would let refuges to decide if village life is not good for them. European villages, Canadian too, are empty because young people left for easier life in cities. Alberta, my Canadian province, takes 50 thousand temporary workers every year from Mexico to work just on farms, because even unemployed canadians don't want to take these hard and dirty jobs.
Now, we are talking about poor refugees who are used to heavy work in Syria, right? They would take these villages any day instead of sitting in refugee camps or dying in trucks.



UK government came up with these numbers not me. Why would you believe anecdotal evidence instead?


If they get a criminal record they will be deported, otherwise why would you do that to good citizens?


All unable to work people will receive welfare payments and their kids too in every civilized country.


I never said it is right or wrong. There is a situation and it needs a solution, unlike the mess that EU faces now.


I'm not sure about US, but in Canada it is 3 years and you are a citizen. Can you elaborate what you mean by integration? Do they need to change religion and become Christians? Give up sticks and eat with spoons, in case of some Asians? Follow the western fashion?
I can understand some obvious things like learning a local language, or having just one wife, but I'm not sure about importance of other things for integration. By some standards some old European dudes need some integration to new world, or even Ukrainians who would like to live in Spain.


They are cumming/landing illegally in Greece and Italy right? After entering illegally they receive a "refugee status". At some point they are illegal, and at some point they are legal. I'm not talking about immigrant who applies for a refugee status abroad in Asia and Africa and waits for acceptance before taking a flight to destination country. In such case they are legal all the way.


I understand that. Where would you remove them too and how they would get there? Points 3 and 4.

You're talking about 50000 temporary Mexican workers to do jobs that Canadians don't want to do.
And do these Mexicans get a permanent permit to stay in Canada?

And you expect Europe to accept millions of people, provide them housing, food, clothing and basic utilities without the right to demand anything in return from them?
You must be joking.

 

[Vallicanus]

You're talking about 50000 temporary Mexican workers to do jobs that Canadians don't want to do.
And do these Mexicans get a permanent permit to stay in Canada?

And you expect Europe to accept millions of people, provide them housing, food, clothing and basic utilities without the right to demand anything in return from them?
You must be joking.

He's deadly serious, I'm afraid.

He lives well away from the problem, in Canada.

We are on the front line.

 

[LeBrok]

This is mere sophistry.

I meant take a refugee into your house. A German citizen has done just that recently.

Great, but what this has to do with pan-European program to deal with refugees one way or another?

 

[LeBrok]

This is a very immature riposte.

Truly, it is!~~

Immature is not to have a plan and look at the big mess. What is your plan?

 

[LeBrok]

You're talking about 50000 temporary Mexican workers to do jobs that Canadians don't want to do. And do these Mexicans get a permanent permit to stay in Canada?

It was just written to ilustrate dying villages problem, and jobs that locals don't want to do. They already live here for half a year, so what would change if they stay? They would spend all their money they made locally!
Besides this half of population of Alberta wasn't born here in this province or even in Canada. Well, and we are live, prosperous with good standard of living. Nothing bad happened, the world didn't claps, neither our Western civilization. Immigrants come here and work hard. There are not many more cases of lazy emigrants on welfare system than country's average. So don't give me this BS that immigrants are coming to Europe to do nothing and abuse the system. Statistics don't confirm your point of view.
There racecourses are there to help, you just don't want to help, period. It has more to do with your human condition and most Europeans than material ability to help.

And you expect Europe to accept millions of people, provide them housing, food, clothing and basic utilities without the right to demand anything in return from them?
You must be joking.

It is just 200 thousand in average year. To put it in perspective, Canada builds new housing for 300 thousand refugees a year, with population of 35 million people. Europe has 750 million people! How hard is to accommodate 200 k or even half a million this year!? Beside the point that it is not a big effort to accommodate that many people a year, is the fact that in Europe there are millions of empty houses in villages! You just don't want to give them, or rent them, the empty homes. Nice!

 

[LeBrok]

He's deadly serious, I'm afraid.

He lives well away from the problem, in Canada.

We are on the front line.

Tell me how many illegal emigrants comes every year through US/Mexico border?

Besides, this thread is about Europeans making a solution to this crises. You are getting defensive, god knows why, and instead of finding a solution, you criticize other countries?! That's how local problems are solved, right? Blame others and do nothing.

 

[Vallicanus]

Tell me how many illegal emigrants comes every year through US/Mexico border?

Besides, this thread is about Europeans making a solution to this crises. You are getting defensive, god knows why, and instead of finding a solution, you criticize other countries?! That's how local problems are solved, right? Blame others and do nothing.

I am not criticising any other country. Only you.

I have no power to alter immigration policy anywhere.
Nor do you.

Is it too difficult for you to understand that only the owners of those empty houses you pontificate about have the right to dispose of them.
You can suggest ideas like anybody else but no more than that.

I am criticising your presumption.