Racism

[smurf]

A lot of the people that I know are racist and it's really starting to bother me. I used to try to ignore it but lately it seems like it's been getting worse. So I'm wondering, what do you guys think about racism and the people that are racist?

 

[Mycernius]

I dislike rascism. Basing someone on the colour of their skin/religion/ sexual orientation without even getting to know them smacks of ignorance and stupidity. There are differnet types of racism I have encountered. The ones who say "I hate [insert skin colour here]" yet will still happily go to the shops run by the people they hate, or like a certain celebrity because thet make them laugh or enjoy their films. I call that convienient rascism.
The others are the real rascist. They hate different people and see them as inferior and sub-human. These ones are the real problem in the world, especially if they are in positions of power. This is real rascism.
Incidently, I can remember seeing a programme on BBC2 once called Louis Therouxs Weird Weekends where he went to meet some right wing extremists in the US. When he asked one of them which shows he like Mister extremist said he liked a 70s British sitcom called Are You Being Served?
When questioned about the character Mr. Humpreys, a very camp character, the idiot said he didn't like him, but the show was great. :clueless: Ignorance and stupidity at its finest.

 

[Dutch Baka]

Rascism.... it is there, and it will always stay there!!! i dislike it, and when somebody says rascist things from people around me i always tell them they should act normal.. i think it will always be, and always was.. its ****** up, but yeah thats the world sometimes isnt?

for myself i havnt had an rascist things, but i am sure i will get it when i am in japan as a minnority of the poppulation, i think i should just let it go, cause i know the people that are rascist are people that are well yeah... poor minded people!

there will always be a group that have rascisme against them. before it where the black now the moslims, and then the dutch, and then the americans... what do you do about it?? whats the cure against rascime? please everybody act normal, think about other there feelings, and place yourself in there position, and stop thinking that everybody is the same, if 1 dutch guy is a thief, it doesnt mean all dutch are thiefs,, hope people will think about this.. but yeah... there will always be rascisme.

 

[den4]

although I dislike racism, and I agree with dutch that it has always been there, something else to think about is that "if" it has always been there, then perhaps it is also a "normal" pattern of behavior for humans, although something that is now unacceptable as a social norm.

racism nowadays tends to be a problem that is similar to "the grass is greener in the neighbor's yard" scenario, where a mixture of envy/hate/fear tend to make the person/persons behave in a manner that can become an obsession, and when in large groups can result in mob behavior.

modern day racists are "sometimes" more sophisticated than their ancestors, where they follow the society's guidelines or laws to promote their own agenda, within the acceptable rules, but still exploiting their envy/hatred/fear of others.

but I think in the past, racism was a mechanism for self-preservation, in a time when the "outsider" was a potential enemy of the group, village, town or tribe. Skin color wasn't so much a factor as their "outsider-ness" or "alien-ness." Japan is a good example of this xenophobia trait, because you will notice that during the days before the Shogunate took power, each prefecture has their own dialect, used to preserve their uniqueness and to keep an eye out for the "foreigners" that wanted to infiltrate their group...at least that is one theory I have heard on why each prefecture had it's own unique dialect, and the seeming obsession Japan has with its "groups" and "inner circles" of friends and the like...

sad to see that this me vs them concept is still alive and well elsewhere in the world, when it comes to religion or politics....especially in the middle east...

one fact that appears to be still true is that despite the advancement of science and technology in the world, the people using that science and technology still haven't advanced beyond their own petty/greedy/self-centered/arrogant status...

I think that the fools and idiots in society are currently the "norm" and only the ones that strive to improve themselves and their lot in life are the abby-normal ones

people just have such a hard time with change...especially once they get into their comfort modes and become mentally and physically lazy...

 

[den4]

not that I'm Jewish, but I did find this link from a friend who is, and it talks about the survivors of one of the worst examples of ethnic cleansing:
http://www.vhf.org/
sad thing is that there are people about nowadays that are still in denial that people can do horrible things to each other. some folks are in denial that the Holocaust ever happened, and there are even some ignorant ones that deny the bombs ever were dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.... :?
then there are the more recent denials, like the ethnic cleansing in the former Yugoslavia, or Cambodia, Africa, and perhaps in the middle east...

and the worst of all are the ones that deny the Flying Spaghetti Monster exists!
It seems to be doing quite well after its inception!
http://www.boingboing.net/2005/08/22/free_fsm_sticker_to_.html
http://www.boingboing.net/2005/08/22/flying_spaghetti_mon.html
http://www.boingboing.net/2005/08/23/fsm_flotsam.html
http://www.boingboing.net/2005/08/25/fsm_give_us_this_day.html
http://www.boingboing.net/2005/08/26/why_dry_spaghetti_al.html
http://www.boingboing.net/2005/08/26/fsm_roundup_sc_schoo.html
http://www.boingboing.net/2005/08/26/jim_leftwichs_flying.html

some people have too much free time

 

[Ma Cherie]

Racism most of the time stems from ignorance. People who are racist usually make comments about why they're racist towards a paticular group has stereotypical veiws about that racial group. You could hear a racist say something "Well, I hate blacks cause they're all a bunch of criminals" or something like that or something.

I don't like racism, but it seems that people have to find reasons not to like someone. kashii:

 

[No-name]

Racism is so pervasive in the United States, it is pretty hard to determine what is harmful and what could be done about this. Overt bigotry is definitely out, but lots of diverse and otherwise well balanced people carry arround the old stereotypes and prejudices. It shows up in several ways like traffic stops and arrests, housing and poverty- education and employment. It seems like right now we like to close our eyes and pretend it doesn't exist, especially at the institutional level.

 

[HomicidalMouse]

My dad thinks anyone thats not a white christian is a criminal. Until he meets them when they suddenly become the nicest people hes ever met. And it annoys me so much that he cant see past a skin colour or religion. To him if a white guy did something wrong, hes just stupid, but if a black/muslim/chinese guy did something wrong, its because he's black/muslim/chinese. It drives me mad. I dont understand how someone can hate someone they've never met because of their race.

 

[lexico]

Expanding on Racism to Discrimination & Genocide

If I may be excused to briefly digress into expanding on racism:

I remember watching a history channel talk on Hitler's personal fondness for women and children. I am not talking about womanising or pedophilia, but about Hitler's genuine love for these two groups of people. The show said that he was able to bond emotionally with them because he did not feel threantened, and that he could be the sweetest person on earth. But the show was not sympathising with Hitler and his ideas, or trying to defend Hitler by emphasising his good side.

I think there is a difference between

1) being one with a bad personality,
2) being one with racist ideas (or discriminatory or genocidal ideas),
3) being one who talks like a racist (a discriniator or a genocide), and
4) being one who practices racism (or discrimination or genocide).

I could say the average hard-working, tax-paying, church-going, bible-reading, good-natured, "conscientious," white US citizen of the period 1854-1864 had "good" personalities, and got along quite fine with other whites. But it took only the following two factors to reduce the Yuki Indian population by 94%-98.5% in the ten year period, from 5,000-20,000 to 300. The two factors were

5) the idea that a Yuki and a white man were not equals
6) they were competing for the same piece of land in California.

I think that is one good example that we should be more concerned with ideas that are racist, discriminatory, or genocidal rather than the behaviour themselves, eventhough words and behaviour are often the result of having such ideas. We really need to bash racism and related ideas hard every chance we get to weed them out. We need to excercise zero-tolerance towards them; but since discrimination has been with us for so long (as den4 so aptly put) it is necessary to talk it out in every possible configuration to make sure there is no mistake in overcoming our natural tendency to become discriminatory. Our naturally occurring ideas of discrimination can and will kill if left untreated.

 

[smoke]

Where i live racism has existed for as long as i can remember. A lot of racism stems from the older generations seeing asian families getting benefits and coming into 'our country' and taking 'our housing'...this, unfortunately, passes on to younger generations and the cycle continues. People say there are different forms of racism/prejudice but something i heard somes it up.
"Being prejudice is like being pregnant, you either are or you aren't. You can't be a little bit of either."
Ultimately discrimination of any sort stems from ignorance and without ignorant people learning of the stupidty of being prejudice...nothing will change. Unfortunately it's usually up to those of us that aren't ignorant to 'teach' people the error of thier ways. So Smurf, don't ignore your friends comments and don't tolerate them. by doing nothing they will continue to make racist comments and it is something that will go on forever. stand up for what you believe is right!
A lot of people forget that racism works both ways.
If 15 white kids beat up a black kid...it's a racially motivated attack.
If 15 black kids beat up a white kid...it's not a racially motivated attack (at least, its not reported as one by the media).

It'll be interesting to see if anyone here has racist views (although i doubt it) and how much they are prosecuted for it by other members.

Where do you draw the line between racism and freedom of speech/beliefs?

 

[den4]

sometimes people have a hard time distinguishing discrimination from racism...
and at other times, people have a hard time discriminating fact from myth...
then there are those that are the professional victims that portray themselves as the victims of some past wrong (whether real or imagined) and attempt to scam off media attention just to get attention/sympathy...there are a lot of parasites in the world...
perhaps some of the racists are in the latter category, too, disguised as one of the minorities... :?

 

[lexico]

O, those two are different, but essentially related deep, deep down inside if one thinks about it analytically.
What do you think about the Jewish Holocaust matter ? Some people who are not denialists are claiming that it's been overly publicised ? Do you think that is also a case of exploitation, or exaggeration ?
What do think about Steven T. Katz' claim that the Jewish Holocaust is unique, and that the Amer-Indian genocide should not be compared to it ?
Do you think the Amer-Indian genocide was blown out of proportion by alarmists with a different agenda ?

 

[den4]

methinks each group has its own agenda, even if they claim they do not. comparisons are a human trait, and it will always happen for good or ill.
some aspects of the Holocaust can be over publicized, but then humans, as Merlin says, in the movie "Excalibur," are doomed to forget, so chances are the Jewish folks are making sure that people don't forget...and yet, by over emphasizing it, they probably desensitize the population, and this could also be a bad thing...
balance is the key....
people need to find the right keyhole that unlocks this balance...
exploitation or exaggeration is always in the eyes of the beholder...
as is with victims and the perpetrators that commit the crimes....
people are the problem....
always has been
always will be
life is probably easier as a brain eating sea squirt....

 

[lexico]

Two strange lessons in history

Hmm, I see some frustrated voices that seem to come from reverse-discrimination. This needs to studied with close attention for two reasons.

1. reverse-racism is also racism; can lead to conflicts and deaths (more like murders and massacres)

2. reverse-racism can be a convenient excuse for racial attacks which is nothing other than conventional racism.

Serbs were massacred earlier, and retaliated in reverse racism. One might argue that a preventive remedy was lacking while nationalism added fuel. Shall we erase history to obliteration so no one would remember of the past ?

Cases when genocide ceased to become a stockpile of explosives: The Tasmanian Genocide was so successful that no one was left to get back. Roughly identical with Amer-Indians. Two strange lessons in history that is also bad influence for sure.

 

[lexico]

Dangerous Ideas: where from ?

You harbour some ideas that can be interptreted as "dangerous" ideas, den4. Let me point out a few.

some aspects of the Holocaust can be over publicized, but then humans, as Merlin says, in the movie "Excalibur," are doomed to forget, so chances are the Jewish folks are making sure that people don't forget.

So you do think the Jewish Holocaust issue was justly publicised. Then do you think the AmerIndian genocide, the AfroAmerican genocide, the Armenian genocide, the genocides in Bosnia and Kosovo, Stalin's genocide, Pol Pot's genocide, the Algerian genocide, the genocide in the Belgian Congo, the Indonesian genocide of the East Timori, the Tibetan genocide, and the Chinese Genocide do not deserve attention because you think the Holocaust was uniquely deserving to be remembered, but the others not ?

..and yet, by over emphasizing it, they probably desensitize the population, and this could also be a bad thing...
balance is the key....
people need to find the right keyhole that unlocks this balance...

But discussing it (actually responding to deflective measures) is not wanted... long before a balance is reached ??? This is not friendly to the Jewish either.

exploitation or exaggeration is always in the eyes of the beholder...
as is with victims and the perpetrators that commit the crimes....

Danger:

You suddenly move the topic into relativism where the clear distinction between aggressor and victim is confused ? How so ? The international laws against war crimes, crimes against humanity, and genocide were created to bring the perps to justice; according to Raphael Lemkin (1900-1959), a Jewish Pole and founder of genocide law who lost 39 members in his extended family in the Holocaust, the only way to prevent genocide was through punishment by law. But you prefer to glide it over, and ambiguate. I believe your kind of view can be the result of at least three different possible origins.

1. one Jewish idea that states the Jewish Holocaust was unique, and that no other genocide [could/should] come(s) close to it.

2. sympathising tendency of genocide perpetrating regimes, individuals, and ideas for a personal reason such as being a former Nazi member fleeing the law or harbouring neo-Nazi ideas or the like

3. reaction to reverse-racism

4. I don't carism

 

[Kinsao]

I am very late to this thread and there is a lot to read but... I can't stand racism, and that's final.

I can understand some of the reasons behind it as people have so well expressed. But I still think it is just blinkered and plain stupid. Unbelievably stupid in fact. kashii:

 

[L.D.Brousse]

I think most racism today stems from the Fact Europe and America seem to be hell bent on allowing our enemies free citizenship at our expense. With the economical situation around the globe I think immigration should be halted until every European and American has a job and then only allow those with a skill that can provide a living for their family in. In America a new immigrant can get a 10 year tax break and loan subsidy's to start a business but a native born American can not. I judge a man by his actions not by race

 

[Chevalier]

I was subject to racism.
let me tell you, it depends on their background.
first I was little hurt, but soon found out, those people are from behind mountains (literally) and knows and never encounter such "specie" ... rarely they see far east look around.
and it's just that place, most of country is aware of variety of looks. also the fact that, Turkmens are half yellow-half white...my dad looks Mediterranean, my mom looks so and so does my bro, yet I was born with far east look, my uncle have looks of a german and so her daughter was born with such look and it's crazy, you can't foretell the appearance, just I came out random, so everyone in my ethnic.
sometimes it's us who get picky, when we're the minority, insecurity makes illusions in our minds. let me say public show of Racism indicates obvious ignorance of that person, but not all acts can't be perceived as racism. sometimes people are just curious (not all places are like Europe and US which is home of many "outsiders" too) and sometimes we best forgive, cause it's natural for a people who never outside their area (works for country folks and such)... and there are some direct racial objection which isn't racist at all... to be frank, it's objection of racial culture than race itself.
just as countries have their own cultures so does races, and people of same race don't act alike in different areas but in their own they are the only one who follows their own codes.
some of them can be perceived as positive criticism, constructive and helpful... yet if it's about looks and some superficial stuff so that's racism.

best thing to deal with racism is silence, as our fellows above said, there always be racism.
sometimes those who are subject to it are to blame, they make themselves vulnerable to it, they act weakly, they give excuses and they act picky like.
so I guess I said the hidden parts of Racism which I think some couldn't say by themselves. esp. I dislike how white people let themselves down cause they think if they give a voice about racism no one takes them serious or be looked at with pessimistic look, so I give my experience, someone who was a subject (and maybe from time to time, is, but don't give a damn cause those people just show me their ignorance).
I say everyone MUST be proud of their own race and I even laugh at some joke about us. there is no serious offend.
I myself took pride in my yellow side, I endorse country like Japan, and see it as my racial inspiration, and I have white blood in veins too (not literally lol) and I took also pride in country like France... being a multiracial has its benefits and disbenefits depends on your view.

let us know we could be born anything and let's not our miraculous life -which we have one chance to live- be wasted on trivial matters.

 

[oriental]

Past injustices perceived, real or fake, creates a revenge factor. The perpetrator(s) is identified and the descendents are the ones targeted. Whether it is right or wrong is diificult as historical facts are facts.

 

[pipinnacanus]

I think most racism today stems from the Fact Europe and America seem to be hell bent on allowing our enemies free citizenship at our expense. With the economical situation around the globe I think immigration should be halted until every European and American has a job and then only allow those with a skill

Every population deserves its own place, that is only for them. Others may visit, but they are not welcome to settle or take over neighborhoods. I do not apologize for preferring my own people.

Only a coward or dupe suggests everyone and every culture has the same potential, the same outcomes, the same benefit. There are very undesirable populations that no one in their right mind would take in, and should be banned from migrating. That may hurt the feelings of those peoples, but its true.

There is a saying-"If you dont brush your teeth, you won't have to worry about them"
Same thing goes for races and cultures= If you dont protect a place for your own culture and ethnic group, you won't have to worry about it for long..

My biggest problem with racism is censorship. I am fine with people choosing to hold or NOT hold whatever opinion you want to, but when you pass a law to criminalize 'racism' (however that is defined) then you no longer are a free person, you are a slave who has no right to free speech or honest opinion, only the order to accept and obey whatever the power elite in your nation/state tell you is allowed to say.

I have met many people of many cultures who are great, and many people who are like me who I may not like that much, but high-functioning european and asian countries are high-functioning for a reason, and there is a definite I.Q. and behavioral difference, as well as human potential between these people and other groups who are simply undesirable.

I can understand how no one wants to admit they are part of a low achievement or undesirable group, but there is a difference between preserving ones own culture and people from populations that bring harm and cost, with no benefit to admitting them, and simply being mean because you want to be mean.

I say the truth is the goal, and to get to the truth you have to be able to speak the truth openly, without censorship laws or mandated multi-culturalism and let the actual population decide what is best for it. Some races and ethnicities do need to be segregated from others - they have well earned their reputation, and its irrelevant if a minor pct of that population can somehow manage to behave themselves and profit their own families in Western countries, what is important is that impact of the mean-average..

If the mean-average is negative in its impact, then they need to be deported and removed. The populations complaining the loudest about 'racism' are from nations or states that are incredibly racist, and such hypocrisy also needs to be removed and deported.