J2b2-L283 (proto-illyrian)

[mount123]

Does anyone here by chance know (Trojet, Polska?) where this Bavarian id:YF110285 exactly comes from in Bavaria?

He is under J2b-L283>Y21045>PH4679 Y109700 and in Yfull live forms this new branch FGCLR1273*.

 

[mount123]

Interesting read about developments regarding J2b-L283>Z1043:
https://phylogeographer.com/j2b-ft33373-an-iron-age-line-of-j2b-z1043-with-significant-western-balkans-diversity/

J2b-FT33373 an Iron Age Line of J2b-Z1043 with Significant Western Balkans Diversity

„One new sample traces his male line to Spodnja Pohanca, Artiče, Krško, today Slovenia. He informed me that he believes that further back his ancestors lived in Slavonia, the eastern part of Croatia. I'm marking his sample as Krško until more details can be clarified regarding a possible deeper origin.
The second new sample from Greece traces his male line to Grevena, Greece, but his male line ancestors were likely originally not ethnic Greeks. His male line ancestor lived in the village of Lavdas and belonged to an ethnic group known as Koupatsarei. This group is described as likely having descended from sedentarized Vlachs in this paper.“

Thoughts About the Ancient Origin of J2b-FT33373 and parent J2b-Z1043

„Presently, given that we have not yet found ancient J2b-Z1043 samples dating to the Iron Age, before any Roman-mediated migrations would have occurred, the geographic origin of J2b-Z1043 and its immediate child J2b-FT33373 is not precisely known.“

„Given that several high resolution ancient J2b-Z1297 samples have been found in the western part of the Late Bronze Age / Early Iron Age Glasinac-Mati culture, and all were negative for prolific J2b-Z1043, I think that the eastern range of Glasinac-Mati could represent the homeland of J2b-Z1043.“

„One other line of J2b-Z1043 with an Iron Age TMRCA and significant diversity in the Balkans is J2b-FTA62354. This is a branch of J2b-FGC55778, an easily identified branch as nearly all of these men have DYS385a = 10 (a denotes the first number in the hyphenated pair). These men trace descent to Montenegro, northern Albania and North Macedonia“

Also interesting to note is that as it seems amongst those two Hacs J2b-L283 guys (Hacs_24, Hacs_10) Hacs_10 seems to be Z8421 so very likely Z1043 I’m assuming (preprint on 5/6th century cemeteries from Pannonia).

 

[Southpaw]

Did the kalash people had Y dna studies done on them before?
They are said fo be macadonian decendants

Yeah, and they are far more isolate and different from Balkan people than the rest of MENA people, some very rare Y-DNA L, G, R clades. Forgot the details. Even autosomally they are an unique Central Asian people. Makes sense because they lived in such high altitude environment, and were quite isolate for some time.

 

[torzio]

Does anyone here by chance know (Trojet, Polska?) where this Bavarian id:YF110285 exactly comes from in Bavaria?

He is under J2b-L283>Y21045>PH4679 Y109700 and in Yfull live forms this new branch FGCLR1273*.

Rosenberg, Bayern, Germany

https://germany.places-in-the-world.com/2845058-place-rosenberg.html

 

[mount123]

It’s a bit of a head scratcher because that Henry Shephard, who was one of the authors from the Southern Arc study, explicitly mentions that bone samples were sent from Purcari, Moldova and Giurgiulesti, Moldova to Harvard’s Reich Lab for sequencing to be included in that study. These are very high profile burials. Purcari is a Usatovo burial dating back to 3500 BC. Skeleton was about 2.15 meters tall. Giurgiulesti is thought to be Suvorovo Novodanilovka. Family of 5, kurgan, high status burial, with possible sacrifice of the wife/mother. Dates to about 4100/4200 BC. These skeletons were more gracile in appearance, so possibly admixed with Old Europe groups.

Reading over this again: by saying admixed with old Europe groups as in Steppe + additional Farmer ancestry?

So the J2b-L283 due to be published sample from Moldova is ~4000 BCE (4500-3500 BCE) and should predate Yamnaya. So clearly the aforementioned groups are rather the context it will be found in. Do you or others here know of any more specifics and can narrow it down further or perhaps make a bet on which cultural complex it will be?

From the other forum:

Yeah from what I can see there is one 4500-3500 BC male with J2b2a in Moldova, I don't see any Yamnaya samples with it however. I think this is the same sample Davidski was alluding too in the past which had quite some steppe ancestry but also some farmer ancestry.

 

[mount123]

Reading over this again: by saying admixed with old Europe groups as in Steppe + additional Farmer ancestry?

So the J2b-L283 due to be published sample from Moldova is ~4000 BCE (4500-3500 BCE) and should predate Yamnaya. So clearly the aforementioned groups are rather the context it will be found in. Do you or others here know of any more specifics and can narrow it down further or perhaps make a bet on which cultural complex it will be?

Considering the dating of 4500-3500 BCE it will more likely be a Suvorovo Culture sample.

Just at the pace, surely not the best site to quote albeit does not seem to differ too much from the papers I'm reading through on Suvorovo (excluding further comments):

"The Suvorovo culture, also called the Suvorovo group, was a Copper Age culture which flourished on the northwest Pontic steppe and the lower Danube from 4500 BC to 4100 BC.

The Suvorovo culture is entirely defined by its burials. These include kurgans and flat graves. Burials are oriented towards the east or northeast, in a supine position with legs either flexed or extended. Roofs of the burial chambers are often covered with stone slabs or logs.

Typical grave goods of the Suvorovo culture include ceramics both the Gumelnița–Karanovo culture and the Cucuteni–Trypillia culture, and shell-tempered wares that are typical of the steppe.The Suvorovo kurgans are the earliest ones to appear in Southeast Europe Its features are characteristic of cultures on the steppes and forest-steppes further east in Ukraine and southern Russia. In accordance with the Kurgan hypothesis, the Suvorovo culture is evidence of a westward expansion of early Indo-European peoples from their homeland on the steppe."

 

[Wanderer]

Moldova study still hasn't been published. Seems like something wrong is going on with their study maybe

 

[mount123]

Moldova study still hasn't been published. Seems like something wrong is going on with their study maybe

No. Some papers just take a long time until they get published.
Literally just one page ago:

I don’t know the reason why these samples from the NWBSR are delayed, but my hunch is they are probably meticulously checking all of the samples for “reservoir effect” and trying to ensure the samples are properly dated. Moldova/Ukraine samples anywhere near the Black Sea or large rivers that date back to the eneolithic tend to belong to groups that consumed large quantities of fish and other types of meat and not a lot of plant based food. This can offset the dating of the samples. So some of these samples, as a result, may actually be older than previously thought. Nailing down the precise age of samples throughout that region will be critical to understanding which groups they belonged to. So I think they’re looking for very accurate dating of the samples along with ancient DNA to make the best assessment as to which cultural complexes these various samples came from.

 

[Wanderer]

No. Some papers just take a long time until they get published.
Literally just one page ago:

Ok your right. Its been nearly a month and I didnt read that post before

 

[mount123]

Enter_tain, seek some psychological help, you've been opening nearly 50 puppet accounts over the past time and derailing a bunch of threads with pseudo scientific garbage. Stop evading your ban.

This thread is not about Albanians and R1b-Z2103, it is about J2b-L283.

Also, learn about them time frames you stubborn troll: Yamnaya 3300–2600 BC

The due to be published J2b-L283 sample from Moldova is dated at 4500-3500 BCE with the median age being ~4000 BCE. It is not a Yamnaya sample and has no affiliation with that culture whatsoever.

 

[Wanderer]

Enter_tain, seek some psychological help, you've been opening nearly 50 puppet accounts over the past time and derailing a bunch of threads with pseudo scientific garbage. Stop evading your ban.

This thread is not about Albanians and R1b-Z2103, it is about J2b-L283.

Also, learn about them time frames you stubborn troll: Yamnaya 3300–2600 BC

The due to be published J2b-L283 sample from Moldova is dated at 4500-3500 BCE with the median age being ~4000 BCE. It is not a Yamnaya sample and has no affiliation with that culture whatsoever.

Where do you get that its J-L283? Who announced that?

What clade of J-L283?
Is J-L283 * or J-Z2509* or J-Z627* or Z600 * or Z585* ect ?

 

[mount123]

Where do you get that its J-L283? Who announced that?

What clade of J-L283?
Is J-L283 * or J-Z2509* or J-Z627* or Z600 * or Z585* ect ?

Genuine question: do you ever read this thread or do you expect others to point to posts just one page ago? Jesus.

 

[Wanderer]

Genuine question: do you ever read this thread or do you expect others to point to posts just one page ago? Jesus.

where do you get that the moldovan sample(s) is J-L283?
You haven't seen it right?

 

[Okoi]

Enter_tain, seek some psychological help, you've been opening nearly 50 puppet accounts over the past time and derailing a bunch of threads with pseudo scientific garbage. Stop evading your ban.

This thread is not about Albanians and R1b-Z2103, it is about J2b-L283.

Also, learn about them time frames you stubborn troll: Yamnaya 3300–2600 BC

The due to be published J2b-L283 sample from Moldova is dated at 4500-3500 BCE with the median age being ~4000 BCE. It is not a Yamnaya sample and has no affiliation with that culture whatsoever.

1. I am not enter_tain

2. I quoted from genetic papers like Lazaridis, Mathieson etc on which how the Indo Europeans formed which a moron like you calls pseudo scientific garbage yet quotes from wikipedia. nowhere did I say it is a Yamnaya 100%. Nowhere did I mention only Albanians but Albanians clearly are part of this with the highest % of this Y-DNA and found close to the Balkans so it is an Y-DNA that spread possibly from the Balkans into Italy etc. some incompetent moron like you cannot see this is not my problem. Yamnaya were the main Indo European ancestors of the Balkans who brought R1b-Z2103 which we seen in Vucedol and in Iron Age Albania and which we see in Maros together with J2b2-L283, so yes it is something worth mentioning.

3. Suvorovo Culture is believed to be an Early Indo European culture you incompetent moron, basically confirming what I am saying that it might be some Early Indo European if it has steppe ancestry.

You're nothing but some little internet warrior think you are so smart and know everything but litterally have no arguments other than personal attacks , probably one of the most incompetent morons I have ever seen. Same moron who years ago claimed Cetina culture wasn't a proto-Illyrian culture now claims every Illyrian was J2b2-L283 when we see a bunch of R1b in Albania.


You're nothing but some little rat you moron and there are posts here where you clearly insult Albanians and don't want Albanian to be Illyrian for personal reasons yet you had no argument you little rat, every Albanian here knows you are trash.

 

[Okoi]

Same moron got banned from Anthrogenica together with these other trash. Keep playing internet warrior.

 

[Okoi]

.........................

 

[Okoi]

Considering the dating of 4500-3500 BCE it will more likely be a Suvorovo Culture sample.

Just at the pace, surely not the best site to quote albeit does not seem to differ too much from the papers I'm reading through on Suvorovo (excluding further comments):

It's saying the same thing that I am saying you moron, that it's an early Indo European.
3500 BCE and 4000 BCE isn't Suvorovo culture you moron , learn the dates . 3500 BCE could be the start of Usatove culture



We know there were some sporadic IE migrations into the Balkans but nothing huge like Yamnaya , this could be an Early Indo European sample that had contact with people around the Steppes or Indo Europeanized. R1b-Z2103 and J2b2-L283 were found in Maros so yes they either migrated together at one point or they came in contact somewhere. Don't pretend like this isn't important to the history of the Balkans or J2b2-L283 , you incompetent moron.

 

[Okoi]

These are some of your posts:

He is a fan of the pseudo scientific fantasy that Slavs are autochthonous to the Balkans. I think he is not referring to the obviously contaminated modern Slavic sample but to one basal I2a2 non-IE sample from Slavonia, Potocari and is trying to link it to I2a1b-Slav which does not make sense whatsoever since these are different haplogroups.

Also, J2b-L283 in antiquity does not have anything to do with the ancestors of Proto-Albanians but everything with Illyrians as we've seen.

They are Illyrian wether you like it or not and Proto-Albanians have absolutely nothing to do with Illyrians. You have a vibrant imagination, I'll give you that.

Non sense. J2b-L283 has nothing to do with Proto-Albanians. Second of all the South Dalmatian Posusje samples are harbingers as to what is to be expected from even more southern regions.

There is no E1b-V13 in BA and most definitely not among Classical Illyrians. This is an Albanian nationalistic obsession of you.

From some of your posts in this thread: eupedia.com/forum/threads/42499-Ancient-balkan-states-Y-DNA?p=646487&viewfull=1#post646487


So according to this dude J2b2-L283 has nothing to do with Albanians despite it is found the highest in Albanians together with R1b-Z2103 which have been found together or in same sites across the Balkans and in Iron Age Albania, in Maros, Vucedol we have R1b-Z2103, believed to be a proto-Illyrian culture, Cetina where a bunch of J2b2-L283 was post-Vucedol culture.

Same maggot that claimed Cetina culture wasn't proto-Illyrian. Now claims all Illyrians were J2b2-L283 based on few samples from 1-2 tribes across the Adriatic yet Macedonia and Albania which was inhabited by Illyrians lots of R1b.. Nothing links E-V13 to some proto-Albanians. It's not even an IE marker. I am thinking this dude is either some minority Shqipfoles such as Serb, Bulgarian or something with an Albanian Y-DNA or just some confused moron.

We all know who you are and your agenda you little maggot. Every Albanian here except for these two little sissy boys of yours know you are trash. Keep coming here and pretend like you know every subject and accuse everyone of spreading pseudo scientific trash which is exactly what you do.

 

[Okoi]

Some more of your posts in that same thread:

I am not a Muslim. You surely are not a troll account

Thanks for the compliment tallava dancing fanatasy wannabe Illyrian descended person.

I am pretty sure this guy is not Albanian or even a real Albanian. Want me to believe some dude like you is Albanian and is being objective on genetic and historical matters. Just look at his posts in that thread. No arguments whatsoever , just calling people slurs and claiming they are spreading pseudo scientific garbage.


Keep playing internet warrior but even internet warriors have their end of days. Don't you worry about that. Now that we found two of the most common Albanian Y-DNA in Albania I wonder what this little maggot says now + tribal name en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanoi

 

[mount123]

It is quite clear that you seem to have psychological issues. What a funny thing of you to say. So just because I am a proud Nikaj tribesman and neither my family or me are Muslim I cannot be Albanian?

Keep your Albanian nationalistic non sense out of this thread and your Djihadist terrorist bullshit. There are people here from all over the world that belong to J2b-L283 and none of them are interested in reading your crap.

Also, thanks for the death threat kiddo:

When I find you in real life and deal with you then we are going to see how tough you are. Keep playing internet warrior on forums