haplogroup L, the rarest in Europe

Sile said:
so because these ( R, G, E1b1b, T, J.. ) all have ancient skeletons found in Europe, you think there will be no L ??

T and L where once in union...........since T ( ydna ) has been found in Early Neolithic Germany, I expect L will be also found in Europe
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No I think with new skeletons it's possible to find some very old L, especially because T was founded among LBK.
Well, only other studies of ancient skeletons can answer our question.
 
Sile said:
so because these ( R, G, E1b1b, T, J.. ) all have ancient skeletons found in Europe, you think there will be no L ??

T and L where once in union...........since T ( ydna ) has been found in Early Neolithic Germany, I expect L will be also found in Europe
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T and L split some 42600 years ago, so L has nothing to do with the neolithic T1a1.

L-L595 split from L-M22 some 23200 year ago, they may have survived LGM in different refuges.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/L/

whereas L-L595 is SW Asian, L-M22 is European.
 
Where I am so far. Big Y completed. Waiting for BAM file. Turned out that I had 90 novel SNPs, and terminate L-SK1214. The only other known SK1214 being from a study in SW Pakistan. i last shared common ancestry with the Pontic Greek L1b's 13,000 years ago. The Y haplogroup L phylogenetic tree will have to be redrawn a bit to fit in the new SK1214 lineage to myself and my Ballochi cousin. Our lineage must have diverged a thousand years after L-M317 appeared.

Based on present evidence, I'm thinking that my Y entered Europe quite recently for example, - Roman Empire, Crusades, and my favourite hypothesis, Portuguese venturers.
 
A Norfolk L-M20 said:
Where I am so far. Big Y completed. Waiting for BAM file. Turned out that I had 90 novel SNPs, and terminate L-SK1214. The only other known SK1214 being from a study in SW Pakistan. i last shared common ancestry with the Pontic Greek L1b's 13,000 years ago. The Y haplogroup L phylogenetic tree will have to be redrawn a bit to fit in the new SK1214 lineage to myself and my Ballochi cousin. Our lineage must have diverged a thousand years after L-M317 appeared.

Based on present evidence, I'm thinking that my Y entered Europe quite recently for example, - Roman Empire, Crusades, and my favourite hypothesis, Portuguese venturers.
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you should probably read this
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0081704
and study the tables which have k-m9 as these will represent some L ydna

I believe you got to the kentish UK area via a Roman Rhaetia legion ( of which a few where formed only in AD times ) which was formed in these eastern alp.

Rhaeti people became the Ladin people in this paper ( Ladin , not Latin )
 
Sile said:
and study the tables which have k-m9 as these will represent some L ydna

I believe you got to the kentish UK area via a Roman Rhaetia legion ( of which a few where formed only in AD times ) which was formed in these eastern alp.

Rhaeti people became the Ladin people in this paper ( Ladin , not Latin )
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But most European L1b's including particularly the Rhine-Danube cluster of M317, also test positive for M349. I don't. My nearest 111 marker STR is in Eastern Iran. My terminal SNP is has only previously been recorded in SW Pakistan in a Balochi speaker. I share STR's in England with another surname family, who's paternal ancestor during the 1740's, was only 32 miles from my paternal ancestor at that time. No others. The STR evidence suggests TMRCA between us of 800 - 350 years ago. Until more English turn up that match, I can't help but assume a medieval entry into Southern England. It could be earlier, but our Y does not relate to the M349 found in the Rhine / Danube cluster of Y haplogroup L1b.

On this limited evidence, I still hold that my Y was from the region of Iran, and only entered England most likely during the medieval.
 
In all likelihood; from my research ... Haplogroup L is European / Caucasoid - and this may have been a minor haplogroup or a tagalong haplogroup among (pre-Indo-European) Europeans. Perhaps it was abundant and settled in Europe with Haplogroup G bearing peoples; alongside the E-V13 (and various other E1b1b) and I2 and I1 peoples. The reason why Haplogroup L is rare in Europe is because it was already quite rare among settlers, but Indo-European settlers further reduced Haplogroup L to a very small frequency.

The reason why haplogroup L is so low is because it probably followed Haplogroup G into Western and Central Europe. I would say the same thing for Haplogroup T prior to Indo-European conquest/settlement; even though haplogroup T is shown in studies and maps to be more abundant in Europe. (If you take my theory analogously.)

If you follow the paternal haplogroups timeline; L and T are (apparently) descendants of Haplogroup K-M9 and are relatives to each other. - This is the analogy.

Most of Haplogroup L in all likelihood; came from Neolithic farmers. While the majority of Europeans in Neolithic Europe (at this time) were haplogroup G.

So, my conclusion is that Haplogroup L is nothing more than a relative Haplogroup to haplogroup T and G. E1b1b and so-forth, and it arrived in Europe as a minor haplogroup; with those peoples - and is nothing more than a minor Neolithic farmer haplogroup.
 
A Norfolk L-M20 said:
Hi, I'm Y haplogroup L M20. A bit of a shock. I have well recorded English only ancestry. My surname line I've only managed to trace back to the Thames Valley to circa 1720s. No idea how the L got in there or when.

23andMe test proved me positive at M317, but negative to M349, which leaves me pretty isolated here in NW Europe. It could relate to the Pontic Greek M317 cluster. No sign of anything in my autosomes from that part of world, so doesn't look a too recent or direct entry into the line I'm having further tests at FTDNA including the Big Y.
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According to my research; you are probably a descendant of pre-Germanic Central Europeans. This haplogroup L bearing forefather of yours; may have merely assimilated into Germanic culture and became Germanic. And then so-on and so forth, it became an Anglo-Saxon lineage.

(I noticed from my research; quite interesting to me, that Germanic peoples and Italians tend to carry haplogroup L as well as other Neolithic haplogroups in mass abundance from the norm of Europeans. Some clades of Haplogroup L are even found in Basques, Sardinians and people of the Caucasus.)
 
Korbyn said:
According to my research; you are probably a descendant of pre-Germanic Central Europeans. This haplogroup L bearing forefather of yours; may have merely assimilated into Germanic culture and became Germanic. And then so-on and so forth, it became an Anglo-Saxon lineage.

(I noticed from my research; quite interesting to me, that Germanic peoples and Italians tend to carry haplogroup L as well as other Neolithic haplogroups in mass abundance from the norm of Europeans. Some clades of Haplogroup L are even found in Basques, Sardinians and people of the Caucasus.)
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Again, I respect your views, but none of the times look correct for a European Neolithic hypothesis. L-L595 (ISOGG 2016 = L2) is mysterious, and only found very rarely, spread across Europe including Sardinia (actually, I think one has been found in Western Asia). L-M349 (ISOGG 2016 = L1b1) is the most common clade of Y hg L found in Europe, although also found in Western Asia, where it's origin looks more likely. But I'm L-SK1414 (ISOGG 2016 = L1b2c). My line diverged away from the M349 and PH8 variants of M317 around 13,000 to 14,000 years ago. So far, it's only turned up in Southern England and SW Pakistan, with possible STR predictions also from Azores, and Iran. No where else in Europe. I likely share with the Pakistani and Iranian testers 1,000 to 3,000 years ago. The Azores STR tester does look interesting. It could even maybe suggest a Portuguese trade route between Asia and England. The other South English testers are all low marker STR, but they all descend from one Y grandfather in Southern England that lived during the 1740s, only 32 miles away from my Y grandfather at that time. I personally interpret that as most "likely" suggesting that my Y moved from the region around Iran, to Southern England, somewhere between 1,500 and 500 years ago. More test results in the future will hopefully help me to develop a better understanding.
 
Hi
I find this interesting, very interesting... I have just had the results from my Y DNA (FTDNA basic 12 marker). I belong to haplogroup L-M20.
I am of Jamaican decent, the earliest forefather I have at this time dates back to 1840 in Jamaica. My understanding up until now was that we migrated from France with my surname being MIGNOTT
I am seriously considering having the 37 or 67 marker test. My results show I have one match who is in Arabia!!
If anyone could guide me or shed some light I would be grateful
 
Wilbafors said:
Hi
I find this interesting, very interesting... I have just had the results from my Y DNA (FTDNA basic 12 marker). I belong to haplogroup L-M20.
I am of Jamaican decent, the earliest forefather I have at this time dates back to 1840 in Jamaica. My understanding up until now was that we migrated from France with my surname being MIGNOTT
I am seriously considering having the 37 or 67 marker test. My results show I have one match who is in Arabia!!
If anyone could guide me or shed some light I would be grateful
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Have you joined the Y Haplogroup L project on FT-DNA and talked to it's administrator Gareth yet? I really would.
 
There are always sales around Christmas, so sit on your money for now, and you may get a Y-67 for the price of a Y-37. Or a Y-111 for the price of a Y-67.
 
I did 23andme and got L2* but the recent update changed it to L-M22. Anyone know any more info about this subclade. Seems nothing has been studied about it, or how L was distributed amongst euros.
 
Hello, I am new to this forum and very puzzled, my my mt DNA L1b1a. I am Dutch as are My ancestors. I have blond hair and green eyes. Regional affiliation according to the genographic project is 64% scandinavian, 34% southern europe and 2% finnish. Would anybody be so kind to sheb some light please?
 
Saskia said:
Hello, I am new to this forum and very puzzled, my my mt DNA L1b1a. I am Dutch as are My ancestors. I have blond hair and green eyes. Regional affiliation according to the genographic project is 64% scandinavian, 34% southern europe and 2% finnish. Would anybody be so kind to sheb some light please?
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Hi Saskia. mtDNA is a very small component of whole DNA, way below 1%. If your African ancestor great, great..grandmother lived 7 generations ago, you will have sub 1% of her total DNA input, but sometimes nothing at all, except mtDNA. Going back in time, by seventh generation, you had 128 ancestors and inherited small parts of DNA from almost all of them. Ancestry from before 150-200 years ago are disappearing very quickly from DNA. Just traces of them left.
 
Hello Gabor. Could Kenezy have changed to Kennedy? The Bathory Family is very Fascinating to me. Could L-M20 possibly be Romani?

Kind Regards
 
One more thought. I come from the Angicized 'Baker' Family, but I know the surname was originally spelled another way. It originally was Bathor. It's quite possible the 'T' was changed to 'K' and the 'H' was dropped, because my Grandfather said one letter was dropped and another one changed. I'm just throwing ideas out here.
 
It leads me to believe the recent ancestry of L-M20 in Europe possibly came from a Nomadic but Isolated People, because of the rarity, and yet the wide dispursion of the Haplogroup subclade.
 
Could Kenezy have changed to Kennedy?
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Sounds far fetched to me. Even Kinison would be more likely than Kennedy to have its origin in Kenezy.

Could L-M20 possibly be Romani?
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In India, L-M20 has a higher frequency among Dravidian castes, but is somewhat rarer in Indo-Aryan castes. No significant presence in Gypsies. If any.

 
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