haplogroup L, the rarest in Europe

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Androcle

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Y-DNA haplogroup
L2a
I belong to the haplogroup L, the rarest in Europe.
My subclade is L2, which is the western form of L.
L1 is found in India, L3 in Pakistan.
Here is one scenario among many others :
One thinks that the haplogroup L is dravidian (black skinned, dravidian language).
In the 14th century BCE lived in western Iran the Elamites (black skinned, with a dravidian-like language), whose capital was Shushan (= Susa). It is probable that their haplogroup was mainly L2.
In the Bible (Ezra 4:10) it is said that the assyrian king Ashurbanipal had exiled and deported Elamites to Samaria. A bas-relief in Louvre museum shows Ashurbanipal with deported Elamites. This can explain the presence of L2 in Syria and Lebanon. These deported mingled with the local population and became Phoenicians. That's the reason why L2 are found in Mediterranean Europe.

Se non e vero, e bene trovato !
 
This is very interesting. I am an blond blue eyed American of Swiss ancestry who is L2a who can trace his family back to Rudi Gutten in the 13 hundreds in Switzerland. This is a long way from India but perhaps my family were Phoenicians.
 
carl good said:
This is very interesting. I am an blond blue eyed American of Swiss ancestry who is L2a who can trace his family back to Rudi Gutten in the 13 hundreds in Switzerland. This is a long way from India but perhaps my family were Phoenicians.
Click to expand...

It might be difficult to trace the migration pattern of the little L2 there is in Europe, but Classical-era merchants from Persia/Phoenicia/etc. seems possible, I believe that Maciamo postulates that on this site. I haven't scoped out any scholarly sources, though, because L2 never seems relevant when discussing European demographics as a whole.

By the way, welcome! I'm a fellow American of Swiss descent (well, on the direct patriline anyway)... I can't get my line back so far but I've also gotten a fairly rare haplogroup for my line (I2*-cluster A). I suppose "Gutten" was Anglicized as "Good" in your case? My original Swiss-German surname was similarly radically Anglicized... it even starts with a different letter now.
 
There are a number of "goods" in the US with the Lb2 Y chromosome haplogroup. It seems that they reside from pensylvania to Illinois. Many were anabatists or religious conservatives such as the mennonites originally. I was supprised that so many of those with this haplogroup in the US have the surname "Good" using Family Tree DNA web site.
 
carl good said:
There are a number of "goods" in the US with the Lb2 Y chromosome haplogroup. It seems that they reside from pensylvania to Illinois. Many were anabatists or religious conservatives such as the mennonites originally. I was supprised that so many of those with this haplogroup in the US have the surname "Good" using Family Tree DNA web site.
Click to expand...

Is the spelling consistent among the Good family? My surname's English spellings vary radically. For example, most did not make the change to the first letter that my branch did. In fact, I wasn't certain that my surname was even related to some of these other spellings until I took a DNA test.
 
I've read about the Goods and found it quite interesting. Do they have any close matches in other surnames or from around the Mediterranean?
 
carl good said:
This is very interesting. I am an blond blue eyed American of Swiss ancestry who is L2a who can trace his family back to Rudi Gutten in the 13 hundreds in Switzerland. This is a long way from India but perhaps my family were Phoenicians.
Click to expand...

Hi, I have a very interesting family story: My great-grandfather (Julius Kenézy de Simánd) is from genus Guthkeled whose ancestor called Vecellinus von Weißenburg from Bavaria. He became a great hero in Hungary helping the christian kings against the pagan rebels. These genus later split into several others: Báthory, Kenézy, etc. It is fascinating that the name Gutt, Gutten, Guth remains even 1000 years also in Hungary.

Kind Regards:
Gábor Balogh
 
Androcle said:
I belong to the haplogroup L, the rarest in Europe.
My subclade is L2, which is the western form of L.
L1 is found in India, L3 in Pakistan.
Here is one scenario among many others :
One thinks that the haplogroup L is dravidian (black skinned, dravidian language).
In the 14th century BCE lived in western Iran the Elamites (black skinned, with a dravidian-like language), whose capital was Shushan (= Susa). It is probable that their haplogroup was mainly L2.
In the Bible (Ezra 4:10) it is said that the assyrian king Ashurbanipal had exiled and deported Elamites to Samaria. A bas-relief in Louvre museum shows Ashurbanipal with deported Elamites. This can explain the presence of L2 in Syria and Lebanon. These deported mingled with the local population and became Phoenicians. That's the reason why L2 are found in Mediterranean Europe.

Se non e vero, e bene trovato !
Click to expand...

hi, i was also tested as L2, i am From Caucasus, Chechnya, and it looks like we also have lot of L-s there. There is lot of interesting things about L Haplogroupe, looks like its an very special one :grin:. Well Is someone here who is also in Familytreedna database?
 
Haplogroup L30- is that rare?

Hello. I have been typed as having haplogroup L30, with a subgroup of G-PF2822. I'm having a very difficult time getting any info on the subgroup and I wasn't aware that the L group was rare! My ancestry is from Sicily (what a mixture that can be!) on both sides of the family. Anyone have any info that can shed some light on either L30 or G-PF2822?

Much thanks,
sdimaria
 
Very interesting! Did any of you take the Family Finder test at FDNA? Their new myOrigins (earlier Population Finder) might reveal where the L came from.
 
sdimaria said:
Hello. I have been typed as having haplogroup L30, with a subgroup of G-PF2822. I'm having a very difficult time getting any info on the subgroup and I wasn't aware that the L group was rare! My ancestry is from Sicily (what a mixture that can be!) on both sides of the family. Anyone have any info that can shed some light on either L30 or G-PF2822?

Much thanks,
sdimaria
Click to expand...

To be clear, you are not Haplogroup L, you are Haplogroup G and carry the SNP L30/PF3267/S126. On ISOGG's haplotree nomenclature, its name is G2a2b. PF2822 isn't on the ISOGG tree, so that one doesn't have a name, but FTDNA puts it as a subclade of G-L30>L141>L177>F1193>F1079>PF3252>F1671 (phew), or G2a2b2b1a at ISOGG. If you're reading Maciamo's G page, look for "L177" on the tree, as that's the most specific he goes; he calls it "G2a3b2." I suggest you read Maciamo's page for a good introduction. Wikipedia also has some information on L177 here.
 
That's right, Sparkey: Sdimaria belongs to subhaplogroup G-L177, a subgroup of macrohaplogroup G. Because of the unreliability of L177 (3 compounds on 3 different locations in the palindromic (bad) area of the Y-chromosome), we have remplaced this SNP by the equivalent PF3359. G-PF2822 is one of the subclades of G-PF3359.
I am the (unpaid) Y-DNA G-PF3359 haplogroup project administrator on FamilyTreeDNA. I sent you a friend request, Sdmaria. I hope that we can exchange data.
 
I have been thinking about the Gedrosia effect. It is basically the Iranian cultural spread especially with Cyrus the Great Empire which included Baluchistan, Pakistan and up to Egypt and Lydia in Anatolia. Alexander the Great conquered the Persian Empire. Then the Parthian controlled Persia and then the Genghis Khan conquered the Khwarezm Empire that controlled Persia. So the central part of Iranian cultural was broken up thus Baluchistan (Gedrosia) seem remote from Europe. People in Elam and Indus Valley probably were rich in Haplogroups H and L. They being part of the Persian Empire may have spread around the Empire.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achaemenid_Empire

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khwarezm
 
At first I was going to say that African Immigration meant that L wouldn't be that rare in Europe during the next century, but then I found out you were talking about Y-dna.
 
Hi, I'm Y haplogroup L M20. A bit of a shock. I have well recorded English only ancestry. My surname line I've only managed to trace back to the Thames Valley to circa 1720s. No idea how the L got in there or when.

23andMe test proved me positive at M317, but negative to M349, which leaves me pretty isolated here in NW Europe. It could relate to the Pontic Greek M317 cluster. No sign of anything in my autosomes from that part of world, so doesn't look a too recent or direct entry into the line I'm having further tests at FTDNA including the Big Y.
 
A Norfolk L-M20 said:
Hi, I'm Y haplogroup L M20. A bit of a shock. I have well recorded English only ancestry. My surname line I've only managed to trace back to the Thames Valley to circa 1720s. No idea how the L got in there or when.

23andMe test proved me positive at M317, but negative to M349, which leaves me pretty isolated here in NW Europe. It could relate to the Pontic Greek M317 cluster. No sign of anything in my autosomes from that part of world, so doesn't look a too recent or direct entry into the line I'm having further tests at FTDNA including the Big Y.
Click to expand...

Since TL-P326 where once a union
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_LT

and 100% of T1a-M70 is found in Early Neolithic skeletons in modern Germany, then for L-M20 to be in Europe in the Neolithic times is not a stretch
 
Yes, I'm familiar with the hypothesis that L may be connected to early Neolithic Farmers. Without any supportive evidence from ancient DNA so far. It is what it is. One of the problems of having a rare haplogroup, is that I'm unlikely to meet any close cousins, and knowledge about it is very thin.
 
... and now that I have my Big Y results, that might just fit. I had 90 novel SNPs. My terminal SNP is L SK1214, believed to have been tested in Iran or Iraq. My nearest Y matches are Pontic Greek, but our TMRCA is 13,000 ybp. Yes, that's right the nearest other Big Y tester to me at the present is 13 kya away.
 
Without aDNA with L there are only hypotesis, an hypotesis could be that L was present in old Europe (like C for example) and it was replaced by the arrival of R, G, E1b1b, T, J...
 
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Hauteville said:
That's a distribution.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_L-M20#Europe

Without aDNA with L there are only hypotesis, an hypotesis could be that L was present in old Europe (like C for example) and it was replaced by the arrival of R, G, E1b1b, T, J...
Click to expand...

so because these ( R, G, E1b1b, T, J.. ) all have ancient skeletons found in Europe, you think there will be no L ??

T and L where once in union...........since T ( ydna ) has been found in Early Neolithic Germany, I expect L will be also found in Europe
 
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