Idontknowwhatimdoing
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- Greek Cypriot
As you said the lack of talforat or north african proxies forces the model to inflate greatly the Natufian.
And deflates it to normal levels on G25.
As you said the lack of talforat or north african proxies forces the model to inflate greatly the Natufian.
The Max Planck institute wants to hide levantine? Obviously you're confused. Also maybe people who are actually professional aren't obsessed with trying to prove it is there. Unlike yourself and those like you.Maybe because they wanted to model Italians with 0% Levantine?![]()
No, G25 inflates it greatly compared to what comes out in official papers, which you dismiss as wrong, but you are unable to say why an amateur calculator is to be preferred over the work of academicians.And deflates it to normal levels on G25.
Maybe because they wanted to model Italians with 0% Levantine?![]()
Bruh, i dont disagree with you about South Italians being the closest to ancient Greeks. The excess Iran N admix in South Italians might even help them plot closer to ancient Greeks too, + the ancient Italian and Greek admix
No, G25 inflates it greatly compared to what comes out in official papers, which you dismiss as wrong, but you are unable to say why an amateur calculator is to be preferred over the work of academicians.
No, obviously there's some due to the moors and Saracens. But he used your dubious model, which is what I asked you to do. The outputs you used may be flawed within and of itself. I doubt the academics fail to make the realization, if there's some nuances to using it we aren't aware of.
You do realize that for Sicilians to get 10% Natufian they would need much more North African admix than Canaanite related?
Maybe you need to brush up on the papers that say otherwise.Greeks through the ages mostly absorbed newcomers with more Steppe admix. Be it Slavs, Vlachs, Albanians (the latter two also Slav admixed). Other than that, Greece and Anatolia were one political continuum since the late Bronze Age.
So modern Greeks in comparison to Mycenaeans have more steppe admixture and are also pulled towards Anatolia. Because of these two factors modern Greeks do not overlap with Bronze Age Greeks. Even though Bronze Age Greeks are the dominant source of the modern Greeks gentic composition.
I believe that South Italians plot closer to Mycenaean Greeks especially compared to mainland Greeks not so much because they have more ancestry from that source. But rather because the ever evolving genetic composition of the South Italian region was more balanced relative to the Mycenaeans. Phoenicians and Siceliots counter balanced higher levels of Steppe admixture of Romans, medieval Greeks, Albanians, Celts which were absorbed by the locals.
Slowly but surely, as we will have more samples from Greeks through the ages, we will notice that they will increasing pull more and more towards modern Greeks. Hellenistic Greeks will likely have somewhat more Steppe admixture, and most assuredly more of this Anatolian imput given that Greece and Anatolia were already interconnected for almost a millenium.
My humble 2 cents: thread seems to be grossly derailed, there's another thread to compare ancient Greeks with moderns.
Thus far, also for those who want to keep track of the nomenclatures:
[TABLE="class: t1"]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]Sample n (Y-DNA)[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]Site[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]Date[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]Y-DNA[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]J1a-P58
Sample (n=5)[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]ID HGC001[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]Hagios Charalambos cave, Crete[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]2300-1900 BC[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]J1a-P58 (xZ643,Y4067,ZS12454,Y205364)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]ID HGC002[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]Hagios Charalambos cave, Crete[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]J1a-P58[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]ID HGC005[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]Hagios Charalambos cave, Crete[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]J1a-P58[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]ID HGC013[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]Hagios Charalambos cave, Crete[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]J1a-P58[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]ID HGC063[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]Hagios Charalambos cave, Crete[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]J1a-P58[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]J1b-ZS50
Sample (n=2)[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]ID LAZ017[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]Lazarides, Aegina[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]J1b-ZS50[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]ID NST012[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]Nea Styra, Euboea[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]J1b-ZS50>ZS5071[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]J2a1-M319
Sample (n=4)[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]ID HGC037[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]Hagios Charalambos cave, Crete[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]2400-1800 BC[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]J2a1-M319[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]ID HGC015[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]Hagios Charalambos cave, Crete[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]2400-1800 BC[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]J2a1-M319>Y151557[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]ID HGC018[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]Hagios Charalambos cave, Crete[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]2400-1800 BC[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]J2a1-M319>Y151557[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]ID HGC031[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]Hagios Charalambos cave, Crete[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]2400-1800 BC[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]J2a1-M319>Y151557[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]J2a1a1-Y6240
Sample (n=3)[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]ID HGC006[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]Hagios Charalambos cave, Crete[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]J2a1a1-Y6240>BY82631[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]ID HGC009[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]Hagios Charalambos cave, Crete[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]J2a1a1-Y6240>BY82631[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]ID HGC017[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]Hagios Charalambos cave, Crete[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]J2a1a1-Y6240>BY82631[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]J2a-Z7671
Sample (n=3)[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]ID APO025[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]Aposelemis, Crete[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]J2a-Z7671[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]ID XAN041[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]Chania, Crete[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]J2a-Z7671[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]ID TIR010[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]Tiryns, Argolis[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]J2a-Z7671[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]J2a-Y17002
Sample (n=1)[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]ID XAN031[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]Chania, Crete[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]J2a-Y17002[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]J2a1a2-Y13128
Sample (n=1)[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]ID XAN029[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]Chania, Crete[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]J2a1a2-Y13128>Z36829[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]J2a-PF5252
Sample (n=1)[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]ID GLI003[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]Glika Nera, Attica[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]J2a-PF5252*[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]J2a2-PF5008
Sample (n=3)[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]ID AID007[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]Aidonia, Corinthia[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]J2a2-PF5008>Y24510[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]ID AID008[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]Aidonia, Corinthia[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]J2a2-PF5008>Y24510[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]ID XAN024[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]Chania, Crete[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]J2a2-PF5008>MF10501*[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]G2a2a-PF3147
Sample (n=3)[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]ID LAZ018[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]Lazarides, Aegina[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]G2a2a-PF3147>FGC55322[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]ID XAN051[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]Chania, Crete[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]G2a2a-PF3147>L91>Y130324[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]ID MYG004[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]MBA/LBA Mygdalia, Achaia, Greece[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]1600-1450 BCE (~1525 BCE)[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]G2a2a-PF3147>L91>Y130324[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]G2a2b2-F872
Sample (n=1)[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]ID NST005[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]Nea Styra, Euboea[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]G2a2b2-F872>PF3378[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]C1a2-V20
Sample (n=2)[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]ID XAN035[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]Chania, Crete[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]C1a2-V20>V3918[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]ID AID002[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]Aidonia, Corinthia[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]C1a2-V20>F16270[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]E1b-CTS10912
Sample (n=1)[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]ID XAN016[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]Chania, Crete[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]E1b-CTS10912>BY6578[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]R1b-PF7562
Sample (n=1)[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]ID XAN030[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]Chania, Crete[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]R1b-PF7562[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]T1a3b2-Y11151
Sample (n=2)[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]ID HGC010[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]Hagios Charalambos cave, Crete[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]T1a3b2-Y11151>BY59831[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]ID HGC055[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]Hagios Charalambos cave, Crete[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]T1a3b2-Y11151>BY59831[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]J2b-L283
Sample (n=4)[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]ID MYG001[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]MBA/LBA Mygdalia, Achaia, Greece[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]1600-1450 BCE (~1525 BCE)[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]J2b-L283>Z615*[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]ID MYG008[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]MBA/LBA Mygdalia, Achaia, Greece[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]1600-1450 BCE (~1525 BCE)[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]J2b-L283>Z615*[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]ID MYG006[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]MBA/LBA Mygdalia, Achaia, Greece[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]1600-1450 BCE (~1525 BCE)[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]J2b-L283>Z615*[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td1"]ID MYG005[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]MBA/LBA Mygdalia, Achaia, Greece[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]1600-1450 BCE (~1525 BCE)[/TD]
[TD="class: td1"]J2b-L283>Z615*[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
\There are still some other samples not included in the tabel that haven't been properly analyzed yet many however are low coverage. It will be interesting to know the dates for all of the samples.