Ancient Central Anatolian Neolithic

Do we have Early Neolithic sample from Italy to compare it with Otzi?
Do we have Early Neolithic sample from Italy to compare it with Otzi?

Otzi was found on the Italian/Austrian border.
Remedello was just south of the Alps, some 100-200 km form Otzi.
Remedello covered most of the Po Valley. Last I heard, that's Italy.


This is a good discussion of Remedello:

Disappointingly, for some, the Bell Beaker level is less advanced than the prior Copper Age level.

We really need more analyses of ancient dna in Italy. I know some is supposedly coming, but not, unfortunately, from the Reich Lab. One of many things I'd like to see is a comparison of Remedello and Rinaldone.

These are the daggers they're talking about:

This is a stelae from the Lunigiana, but they're all over eastern Liguria too.


A paper is coming out this year with Bronze age DNA from all over Europe. This has been confirmed. I think we'll get it before New Years.
Otzi is not Early Neolithic, neither Remedello. They are LN or Chl.
Yes! Now it's filling in more.

Kilinc et al:

"The Demographic Development of the First Farmers in Anatolia"


  • •​
    Pre-pottery farmers had low genetic diversity, akin to Mesolithic hunter-gatherers
  • •​
    Genetic diversity levels are higher in the subsequent Pottery Neolithic
  • •​
    Central Anatolian farmers belonged to the same gene pool as early European farmers
  • •​
    Copper Age genetic affinities suggest a second wave of Anatolian gene flow


The archaeological documentation of the development of sedentary farming societies in Anatolia is not yet mirrored by a genetic understanding of the human populations involved, in contrast to the spread of farming in Europe [ 1–3 ]. Sedentary farming communities emerged in parts of the Fertile Crescent during the tenth millennium and early ninth millennium calibrated (cal) BC and had appeared in central Anatolia by 8300 cal BC [ 4 ]. Farming spread into west Anatolia by the early seventh millennium cal BC and quasi-synchronously into Europe, although the timing and process of this movement remain unclear. Using genome sequence data that we generated nine central from nine CentralAnatolian Neolithic individuals, we studied the transition period from early Aceramic (Pre-Pottery) to the later Pottery Neolithic, when farming expanded west of the Fertile Crescent. We find that genetic diversity in the earliest farmers was conspicuously low, on a par with European foraging groups. With the advent of the Pottery Neolithic, genetic variation within societies reached levels later found in early European farmers. Our results confirm that the earliest Neolithic central Anatolians belonged to the same gene pool as the first Neolithic migrants spreading into Europe. Further, genetic affinities between later Anatolian farmers and fourth to third millennium BC Chalcolithic south Europeans suggest an additional wave of Anatolian migrants, after the initial Neolithic spread but before the Yamnaya-related migrations. We propose that the earliest farming societies demographically resembled foragers and that only after regional gene flow and rising heterogeneity did the farming population expansions into Europe occur."

Spread into west Anatolia from central Anatolia, or from the Levant? As for the last highlighted sentence, I've been saying that for years. Let's see now if they prove it.

The PCA with both modern and ancient samples is very interesting indeed. You really should enlarge it and study it:

Just some initial reactions:

Yamnaya and Afanasievo overlap. No modern population clusters close to them, although the Mordovians are perhaps the closest.

Corded Ware and Andronovo overlap and are close to Karsdorf. The closest populations to them are the Croatians and the Bulgarians. Sintashta, Bell Beaker and Eperstadt are not far away. The closest to Bell Beaker, Eperstadt and Sintashta are again the Croatians and the Bulgarians. Even closer perhaps. They can't be unchanged since that time, right? There were movements into the Balkans from Slavic speaking areas, after all, or was that input smaller than we've been assuming, or from a place closer to the Balkans? That, or do you believe in coincidence?

Corded Ware overlaps with Rathlin and isn't too far from Bell Beaker. Rathlin is really not too close to the English samples at all, and Corded Ware isn't close to Estonians, Lithuanians, Belorussians at all; it's much closer, again, to the Balkan populations and Hungary.

The Bedouins and Saudis are pulled very far south, and the Jordanians and Palestinians as well. That has to be African gene flow, yes? It also must have started by the Bronze Age, because although the Bronze Age Levantine sample isn't there, from other papers we know it plotted among Saudis.

Of course, after going through all this it's as well to remember there may be some projection bias, and a PCA is only a very small part of total variation.

The rest will have to wait until tomorrow. I'm too tired.

Angela and everyone—-

Resurrecting this thread. With recent publication of Penske et al 2023 and all of its new Chalcolithic samples from Old Europe, combined with a smaller set of preexisting Eastern Balkan_Chl we now have near-definitive autosomal confirmation of this.

I will be posting runs here soon.

The only question is what archaeological correlates exist for this. Hopefully, folks can post relevant literature—-it doesn’t seem easy to come by. I managed to come across a Romanian author who’d written a piece years ago about this in regards to Hamangia, but did not provide concrete material evidence for his claims of this secondary Anatolian connection.

This thread has been viewed 29515 times.