Ancient Central Anatolian Neolithic

The PCA has projection bias. We can't trust anything it shows anyways.

If by "projection bias" (according to google this appears to be a term form behavioural psychology?) you mean the PCA is skewed due to disparate sample sizes, there's no reliable method to correct for this afaik. It's disingenuous to say that it cannot be trusted at all.
 
There's always such terrible projection bias in a PCA that it can't be trusted whenever it doesn't support someone's prior pronouncements, and especially when it doesn't jive with that person's mythos about his "nation's" origins.

That isn't to say that a PCA is the last word: there is some projection bias, and all genetic variation isn't reflected in it.

The thing to do is to check the results with those from other tools.
 
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But that was so obvious, since basically all Farmers ANatolian/EEF had Haplogroup I among them. It is not unlikely that allot of the I today in Europe is actually of Farmer ancestry.
Well according to the haplogroup distribution i had similar clues,it hint to me that played some role in expansion of farming for example given the distribution,first or second wave doesn't matter,otherwise can not spread that much in my opinion, but i was reading a lot of different things about it.
 
I also think that the "EEF" like genetic material that went into the Central European MN and moved east into the steppe might have had a lot of these later migrations in it.

I think LBK (EEF) was not influenced by the 2nd wave from Anatolia because the LBK genomes are very similar to the NW Anatolia genomes (Barcin and Mentese)
The second wave would have been the one coming from Tepcik-Ciftlik-like genomes. This second wave arrived into the Balkans after LBK and carded/impressed ware people had allready left the Balkans.

I think the 2nd wave influenced Vinca, Cucuteni-Tripolye, Hamangia, Boian and Gumelnita cultures.
So, steppe people were also affected by the second wave.

I think this may be the earliest arrival of 2nd wave into the Balkans : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dudești_culture
They were herders in Wallachia (lower Danube)
 
 
But that was so obvious, since basically all Farmers ANatolian/EEF had Haplogroup I among them. It is not unlikely that allot of the I today in Europe is actually of Farmer ancestry.

Concerning Y-I2a1 I would call for more caution. We have to wait for more proofs. Not impossible but not already proved. I'm not against the thought some Y-I2a1a came from South but we have to find which South they came from. Concerning Y-I2a1b I doubt I a little... The same for Y-I2a1.
 
I want to say the same for Y-I2a2
 
I think the 2nd wave influenced Vinca, Cucuteni-Tripolye, Hamangia, Boian and Gumelnita cultures.
So, steppe people were also affected by the second wave.

I think this may be the earliest arrival of 2nd wave into the Balkans : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dudești_culture
They were herders in Wallachia (lower Danube)

I think they were influenced by a different wave, a later wave, but was that different wave Tepecik or was it Barcin or Kumtepe like? Or were there three slightly different waves? I don't know. Does the archaeology help?

I can't find specific dates for each sample. I wish they'd provided that. So, basically, all we know is:

Boncuklu: 8300-7500 BC. Central Anatolia-Forager-elementary farming and some experimentation with pig domestication.

Tepecik:7500-5800 BC-Central Anatolia- Mixed and complex plant and animal exploitation practices (hunting and gathering, cereal agriculture and domesticated animals...significant interaction with communities further east at the headwaters of the Tigris, perhaps having to do with obsidian.

Barcin: 6400 BC Pottery Neolithic in NW, not Central Anatolia.

Kumtepe: 5700 BC Copper Age NW Anatolia

Did you take a look at the Admixture Chart?
http://www.cell.com/cms/attachment/2062474746/2064493946/gr3_lrg.jpg

I think it's important to note that the Boncuklu and Tepecik analysis is based on both whole genome and shotgun sequencing analysis. Was that always the case in all the papers in the past? Did they use the same set of samples for the modern populations? Could some of the discrepancies be accounted for by that fact?

It looks as if they're saying that over time the "WHG like" percentage of the Boncuklu samples dropped a bit. Given the archaeology that I'll reference below, I think it's pretty clear that with the Pottery Neolithic there was migration from elsewhere, probably from the Tigris Euphrates area but perhaps also from the Levant which changed them slightly. By the time of Tepecik Central Anatolia was definitely less WHG.

The EN samples seem to have quite a bit of variation. North-West Anatolian Pottery Neolithic Barcin is sort of in-between Boncuklu and Tepecik, and Kumtepe and Mentese, also further north, are sort of back up to the Boncuklu levels. What were the people who took off for Europe like? We know that there was a migration, pre-pottery Neolithic, from the coastal northern Levant where Syria meets Anatolia and which went to Cyprus among other places. We don't have samples from there. Does anyone know if there are even any available from that place and time? One might think they would have been more like Boncuklu, but they're also pretty close to where we might find Levant Neolithic. As for the movement of Pottery Neolithic like people out of the Near East, were they more Tepecik like or Barcin like? From what I remember of the archaeology there's very little to show any interactions between Barcin and the Balkans, for example. So, perhaps they were Tepecik like, but I don't know. I used to have the dates for the various early pre-pottery and pottery Neolithic settlements clear in my mind, but now I'd have to look them up. If anyone has a handle on it, please post.

The FST charts are interesting too. Look at where both Boncuklu and Tepecik have the strongest correlation. It's certainly not the Near East. Also, I just noticed that for all the talk about how Levantine the Cypriots are, by this measure they are a lot more European than Levantine. Obviously, of course, this is just part of their genetic variation.

Kilinc et al First Farmer F3 graphic (1).jpg

Kilinc et al First Farmer F3 graphic (2).jpg

Kumtepe is a whole other issue. The authors don't say, but is this Kumtepe 6? The authors do definitely see a closer correlation between Otzi/Remedello and Kumtepe, but can we tell from the analysis whether there was an actual movement of Kumtepe like people into southeastern Europe, or could it be that Boncuklu, Tepecik and some WHG picked up in Europe "looks like" Copper Age Kumtepe. On the other hand, there we have Otzi and Remedello with copper implements and other "hallmarks" of supposedly "Indo-European" culture, and yet no sign of "steppe" admixture at all, or so minor that it could be noise. So, could all of that have come from Northwestern Anatolia? Certainly, this paper underscores that, as Dienekes showed years ago, and as I've continued to say, Otzi has some CHG, which other MN samples do not.

Anyway, the paper has some nice data on the archaeology, which hints at the source of the minor changes in the genetics.

Farming came late to Anatolia: "The Epipalaeolithic of the plateau and its coastal fringes is poorly documented [S23]. However, one site on the plateau has been excavated at Pınarbaşı in the Konya Plain, where unlike the partially contemporary Levantine Early Natufian, there is no evidence of sedentary practices or intensive plant exploitation [S24]. The earliest sedentarising communities on the plateau appear in the 10th-9th millennia cal BC and are represented also by occupation at Pınarbaşı which lacks evidence of cultivation or herding [S25]."

The "Basal Eurasian" must have arrived before the Pre-Pottery Neolithic: "The Pre-Pottery Neolithic period (PPN) of the plateau is better understood. Among the human groups and cultures of the Konya Plain there are indications of highly diverse but indigenous communities during this phase of uptake of sedentism, of cultivation and of herding."

"There is thus substantial evidence for interactions between central Anatolia, the south coast of Turkey, the Levant and areas south-east of the Taurus from the Epipalaeolithic into the Pottery Neolithic [S32]."

"A diversity of cultures can be described in the Anatolian plateau during the subsequent Pottery Neolithic, considered to span from c.7000 to c.6000 cal BC. In Çatalhöyük in the Konya Plain [S34,35] we find rectilinear closely packed house clusters as at 8th millennium Aşıklı Höyük, and domestic organization that resembles 9th- 8th millennium Boncuklu. In contrast, Tepecik-Çiftlik and Köşk Höyük in Volcanic Cappadocia have independent houses and open areas, pointing to cultural differences with the Konya plain...Recent work has detected many new settlements in the Volcanic Cappadocia region; these are thought to be related to migrating individuals and small groups, possibly moving over quite significant distances, attracted by the local obsidian sources."
 
Genetiker: Y-SNP calls from Neolithic central Asia Minor
Sample Period Date BC Haplogroup
Bon004 Pre-Pottery Neolithic > 8300 G2a2b2b-F705 calls
Bon001 Pre-Pottery Neolithic 8212–7952 G2a2b2b1a-PF3422 calls
Tep001 Pottery Neolithic 7500–5800 G, J2, or R1b calls
Tep006 Pottery Neolithic 7500–5800 C1a2-Y10446 calls
Tep003 Pottery Neolithic 7500–5800 G2a2a-PF3159* calls
 
after Genetiker Y-calls :

3 x G2a2 + 1 x C1a2

finally G2a2 like NW Anatolia & Europe neolithic
no G2a2 was found in Levant or Iran HG & neolithic
this G2a2 in Central Anatolia was a seperate tribe, the forfathers of Europe neolithic
they were trading obsidian from Capadocia with the proto-Natufians in the Levant since 16 ka

http://www.archatlas.org/ObsidianRoutes/ObsidianRoutes.php
http://www.archatlas.org/ObsidianRoutes/Slide1.jpg


AFAIK this is the first neolithic settlement in the area, ca 10,8 ka

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aşıklı_Höyük

it is very similar to the later Catal Huyuk area
there are indications of early metallurgy in Catal Huyuk, but that is uncertain

there is this study re origins of NW Anatolina neolithic

http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0099845
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/ar...id=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0099845.g001

well, I think this study is wrong, now that I see the new genetic evidence

as for early European neolithic :

there is an early wave 8.8-9 ka to aceramic Sesklo and Crete about which very little is known

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sesklo

the 1st big wave was 8.4 ka to Thesally and to Corfu (carded/impressed ware)
it looks like the 8.4 ka wave to Thesally had the same origin as Barcin/Mentese, and that this was the origing of later Starcevo and LBK
Corfu 8.4 ka was carded/impressed ware






TurkeyBoncuklu [Bon004] PPNM6500-6200 BCG2a2b2b – F705
N1a1a1http://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(16)30850-8

TurkeyBoncuklu [Bon002] PPNF


K1ahttp://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(16)30850-8

TurkeyBoncuklu [Bon005] PPNF


N1a1a1http://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(16)30850-8

TurkeyBoncuklu [Bon001] PPNM8212 – 7952 BCG2a2b2b1a – PF3422
U3http://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(16)30850-8

TurkeyTepecik-Ciftlik [Tep001] Pottery NeolithicM7500-5800 BCG, J2 or R1b
K1ahttp://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(16)30850-8

TurkeyTepecik-Ciftlik [Tep006] Pottery NeolithicM7500-5800 BCC1a2 – Y10446
N1a1a1http://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(16)30850-8

TurkeyTepecik-Ciftlik [Tep003] Pottery NeolithicM7500-5800 BCG2a2a – PF3159*
N1b1ahttp://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(16)30850-8

TurkeyTepecik-Ciftlik [Tep002] Pottery NeolithicF


K1a12ahttp://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(16)30850-8

TurkeyTepecik-Ciftlik [Tep004] Pottery NeolithicF


N1a1a1http://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(16)30850-8

TurkeyBarcın [I0707/BAR2 / L11-213]F6500-6200 BC

K1a4Mathieson 2015

TurkeyBarcın [I0708/BAR6 / L11-439]M6500-6200 BCJ2aM410, L559, L212; J2a-M410 > PF4610 > Z6049 > Z6048(xS20392)N1b1aMathieson 2015; Additional info on Y-DNA SNPs from Chris Rоttеnѕtеіnеr

TurkeyBarcın [I0709/BAR20 / M13-170]M6500-6200 BCH2L281, P96, L284, L285, L286U3Mathieson 2015

TurkeyBarcın [I0736/L11-216]F6500-6200 BC

N1a1a1aMathieson 2015

TurkeyBarcın [I0744/M10-275]M6500-6200 BCG2a2b2aZ3077, CTS688, PF3329, CTS4454, CTS10366, P303, Z3243, PF3342, Z3481, PF3343J1c11Mathieson 2015

TurkeyBarcın [I0745/M11-363]M6500-6200 BCH2L281, P96, L284, L285, L286U8b1b1Mathieson 2015

TurkeyBarcın [I0746/L11-322]M6500-6200 BCG2a2b2a1cCTS342K1a or K1a1Mathieson 2015

TurkeyBarcın [I1096/BAR26/M10-76]M6500-6200 BCI2cL596, L597N1a1a1Mathieson 2015

TurkeyBarcın [I1097/BAR271 / M10-271]M6500-6200 BCG2a2b2aZ3077, CTS946, PF3329, CTS4454, CTS10366, Z3243, PF3342, Z3481W1-T119CMathieson 2015

TurkeyBarcın [I1098/BAR99 / M10-352]F6500-6200 BC

X2d2Mathieson 2015

TurkeyBarcın [I1099/L11-S-488]M6500-6200 BCG2a2a1bL91T2bMathieson 2015

TurkeyBarcın [I1100/M11-351]F6500-6200 BC

K1a or K1a6Mathieson 2015

TurkeyBarcın [I1101/M11-352a]M6500-6200 BC

T2bMathieson 2015

TurkeyBarcın [I1102/M11-354]M6500-6200 BCC1a2V20K1a3aMathieson 2015

TurkeyBarcın [I1103/M11-S-350]M6500-6200 BCG2a2a1b1PF3247K1b1b1Mathieson 2015

TurkeyBarcın [I1579/M13-72]F6500-6200 BC

K1a-C150TMathieson 2015

TurkeyBarcın [I1580/L12-393]F6500-6200 BC

H5Mathieson 2015

TurkeyBarcın [I1581/L12-502]F6500-6200 BC

U3Mathieson 2015

TurkeyBarcın [I1583/L14-200]M6500-6200 BCG2a2a1bL91K1a2Mathieson 2015

TurkeyBarcın [I1585/M11-59]F6500-6200 BC

J1 or J1cMathieson 2015

TurkeyBarcın [I0854/L11-215]F6500-6200 BC

N1a1a1aMathieson 2015
FikirtepeTurkeyMenteşe [I0723/T1, M229 / UH]M6400-500 BCG2a2aPF3165, PF3166, PF3175, PF3184X2m2Mathieson 2015
FikirtepeTurkeyMenteşe [I0724/T2 / UP]M6400-500 BCICTS6231K1a4Mathieson 2015
FikirtepeTurkeyMenteşe [I0726/M15, M15.2, M15.2 / UF]F6400-500 BC

H or H5-C16192TMathieson 2015
FikirtepeTurkeyMenteşe [I0727/M24 / UA JK 16]M6400-500 BCGCTS11294K1a2Mathieson 2015
FikirtepeTurkeyMenteşe [I0725/T4 / SSK15]F6400-500 BC

N1a1a1aMathieson 2015

TurkeyBarcın [Bar31]M6419–6238 BCG2a2b > genetiker G2a2b-L30*
X2mHofmanová 2015

TurkeyBarcın [Bar8]F6212–6030 BC

K1a2Hofmanová 2015

TurkeyKumtepe [Kum6]
6,700 BP

H2aOmrak 2016
ChalcolithicTurkeyBarcın Höyük [I1584 / M10-111]F3943-3708 calBCE (5016±31 BP)

K1a17Lazaridis 2016


Kumtepe was founded only 6.8 ka, it has nothing to do with neolithic Barcin/Mentese

We need Vinca genomes.
 
Further, genetic affinities between later Anatolian farmers and fourth to third millennium BC Chalcolithic south Europeans suggest an additional wave of Anatolian migrants, after the initial Neolithic spread but before the Yamnaya-related migrations.


In Italy this is confirmed by archaeology. Copper age italian cultures before the bell beaker had strong anatolian influences: laterza, gaudo, rinaldone etc.
 
@Bicicleur,

Could you explain your thinking about this in more detail?

Bicicleur:http://journals.plos.org/plosone/art...l.pone.0099845
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/art...e.0099845.g001

well, I think this study is wrong, now that I see the new genetic evidence


That early wave went to Cyprus as well as to Sesklo and Crete, yes?


I wish we had the yDna from the Turkey Chalcolithic.


Also, in case someone hasn't seen it...

"Gedmatch IDs:

M311970 Bon002 Boncuklu, Central Anatolia 8279-7977 calBCE (10289-9987 BP)

M380264 Rev5 Revenia, Central Greece 6438–6264 BCE (8448-8274 BP)
M072869 Bar31 Barcin, Northwest Anatolia 6419-6238 BCE (8429-8248 ybp)
M822045 Klei10 Kleitos, Central Greece 4230–3995 BCE (6240-6005 ybp)

M197341 WC1 Wezmeh Cave, Central Zagros Iran 7455-7082 BCE (9465-9092 ybp)

Bon002 had an unexpected eye color:
Bon002 M311970 eye color prediction

Try comparing the IBD of Bon004 at 100 SNPs and 1 cM with the others, and especially with:
M677694 Satsurblia
M603839 Kotias
M115616 I0867 Levantine PPNB
F999937 NE1 Starcevo
F999916 Stuttgart LBK"

I wouldn't take some of these calculator results as gospel, particularly the ones from Eurogenes that are always going to show inflated eastern and sometimes northern European.
 
@Bicicleur,

Could you explain your thinking about this in more detail?

Although domestic sheep and goats appear first in central Turkey by the mid eighth millennium cal BC, domestic cattle appear a millennium later and domestic pigs are never incorporated into Neolithic economies in this region [76]. The combination of domestic caprines, cattle and pigs occurs for the first time in Turkey, outside of the SE, in the early seventh millennium cal BC, where all four livestock species are evident in the Izmir region at Ulucak VI and then slightly later in SW Turkey at Bademağacı ENI, and in southern Turkey at Yumuktepe [102] (Fig. 1). Since a completely autochthonous domestication event in western Turkey is unlikely, this pattern suggests a rapid westward movement of domestic animals across southern Turkey [4]. The geography and timing of this early expansion suggest it may have followed a coastal route, either by land or by sea [20], although the initial phases of this process in southern Turkey are currently poorly documented [40],[103]. However, the absence of domestic cattle and pigs in central Turkey at this time suggests that this region was not directly involved in the earliest spread of domestic livestock either to the Lakes region or western Turkey and reaffirms the distinctive nature of the Central Anatolian Neolithic tradition [104][106].

Barcin and Mentese Y-DNA dated 6500-6200 BC are in majority G2a2.
G2a2 are nowhere found in meso- or neolithic SW Asia except in this study about central Anatolia (3 out of 4 are G2a2 and 1 is C1a2 which is found in Barcin too).
 
That early wave went to Cyprus as well as to Sesklo and Crete, yes?

Cyprus was earlier, allready 10.8 ka

oldest Sesklo dating is not so clear, but 9-8.8 ka seems quite likely
in Crete, neolithic layers underneath Knosos have been dated to +/- 9-8.8 ka
 
I saw this posted elsewhere:

" Bon002 is a very important result, because she lived at 8279-7977 calBCE looks just like a Starcevo or LBK farmer (what became of the Cardial people in Gedmatch?) but actually lived right near Çatalhöyük which existed from approximately 7500 BCE to 5700 BCE, and flourished around 7000 BCE. That's 500-700 years BEFORE Çatalhöyük.

Çatalhöyük - Wikipedia

Why would someone from South Central Anatolia from c. 8,100 BCE look almost the same as someone from Stuttgart Germany 5,100 BCE, 3,000 years later? And complete with a substantial portion of WHG admixture?

It's as if the "admixed" Early European Farmers were already admixed with "European" WHGs when they first started farming in Anatolia."


Haven't we been saying this for about a year? Boncuklu got slightly less WHG over time. If the major wave that went to Greece was Barcin like, then they might have indeed picked up a little extra WHG in Europe, but they had a good amount already.
 
It's as if the "admixed" Early European Farmers were already admixed with "European" WHGs when they first started farming in Anatolia."


Haven't we been saying this for about a year? Boncuklu got slightly less WHG over time. If the major wave that went to Greece was Barcin like, then they might have indeed picked up a little extra WHG in Europe, but they had a good amount already.
Exactly, we did. We suspected that WHG had refugium in Anatolia and Neolithic Farmers crossed with them there. At about 10% level, and later picked another 10% in Balkans.

I'm yet to find time to read the newest paper. Just glanced at charts and posts and everything is what we expected to see in Central Anatolia. Though perhaps not that close to the edge of Fertile Crescent.
 
Exactly, we did. We suspected that WHG had refugium in Anatolia and Neolithic Farmers crossed with them there. At about 10% level, and later picked another 10% in Balkans.

I'm yet to find time to read the newest paper. Just glanced at charts and posts and everything is what we expected to see in Central Anatolia. Though perhaps not that close to the edge of Fertile Crescent.

yes, and I tought it was upto Karain and Belbasi cave area, near Antalia.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belbaşı
in these caves there are presumed Aurignacian layers upto ca 19 ka and presumed Gravettian layers upto 15 ka
it is not clear whether the Aurignacian layer is European Aurignacian or Levantine Aurignacian

what is even more amazing now is this :

TurkeyTepecik-Ciftlik [Tep006] Pottery NeolithicM7500-5800 BCC1a2 – Y10446
N1a1a1http://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(16)30850-8

Tepecik-Ciftlik is so much further east than Karain and Belbasi cave area.

[FONT=&quot]Turkey[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Tepecik-Ciftlik [Tep006] Pottery Neolithic[/FONT][FONT=&quot]M[/FONT][FONT=&quot]7500-5800 BC[/FONT][FONT=&quot]C1a2 – Y10446[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]N1a1a1[/FONT][FONT=&quot]http://www.cell.com/current-biology/...822(16)30850-8[/FONT]
 
So he had the same Y-DNA as LaBrana and a paleolithic individual from the Czech Republic, very cool
 
Exactly, we did. We suspected that WHG had refugium in Anatolia and Neolithic Farmers crossed with them there. At about 10% level, and later picked another 10% in Balkans.

It is very important conclusion.

We will wait new scientific papers for new samples and more details.
 

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