Albanian substrate in Slavic Carpathia

[PaleoRevenge]

Шарудіти/Šarudity	noise, roar	sherr - loud quarrel, squabbling; discord, dispute, argument
Штрамок/Štramok	a very neat guy, a dandy	shtruar/shtruem - 3) [Fig] quiet and relaxed, moderated 4) [Fig] well-behaved; calm; patient; diligent 6) (of a table/room/house) all set up and ready (for company)
Штрамуватися/Štramuvatysja	to dress festively	shtruar/shtruem - 3) [Fig] quiet and relaxed, moderated 4) [Fig] well-behaved; calm; patient; diligent 6) (of a table/room/house) all set up and ready (for company)
шінтер/šinter	bully	sendis - exacerbate, annoy
шкап'єта/škap'jeta, шкапє/škapje	1) horses 2) horse	shkapërxyes - passing, exceeding; excelling; excessive. skapërdhiks - to curvet. This second definition confirms horse was called Skaper in old Albanian, as the verb to curvet can only be based off it.
шкерідь/škeridʹ	trouble, bad luck, something bad	shkërdhej - 1) to unhinge, break down, demolish 2) to defile, disgrace, dishonor, desecrate, sully, screw (a person)
шкорла/škorla	uprooted tree, twisted tree with roots	shkulur - uprooted.
шкрепітє/škrepitje	rocky cliff, rocky ravine, rocky precipice	shkrep - cliff, crag, pointed crag; barren peak, rocky crag. shkrepët - difficult to traverse: steep; rugged
шкрум/škrum	smoke, choking smoke, grime, sizzle, stifling	shkrumb - char, chinder, carbonized residue from burning; smelly residue of scorched food stuck to the bottom of a pan shkrumbët - charred, burned shkrumbuar - 1) incinerated; burnt; cremated 2) cooked to a crisp; parched
вшкремітки/vškremitky	to the end, to the very end, to the bottom (eitther a "to death cry" rallying charge = Mors triumphalis, to valhala, or a cheeky expression to mean death, by invoking the cremation ritual of the Daco-Thracians)	shkrumbit - to a crisp, incinerate; cremate. *Note, Daco-Thracians cremated their dead.
ОБШКРУМИТИ/OBŠKRUMYTY	Burn, scorch.	shkrumbët - charred, burned
шмалай!/šmalaj!	run!	shmang - avoid, evade, avert. shmangem - leapfrog, deviate
шмирдавка/šmyrdavka	catarrh, cold, rheum	sëmurë - 1) ill, sick, diseased, ailing; sickly; sick-looking 2) [Fig] unhealthy
шпитаки/špytaky	trick , cunning	shpitë - quick, clever shpejtë - 1) fast, fleet; rapid; quick; prompt 2) bright, apt
штеліпає/štelipaje	run away very fast	shtëllitet - to spread out; become dispersed; uncurl shtëllohem - to attack, to rush in
вштеліпали/vštelipaly	they ran away quickly	shtëllitet - to spread out; become dispersed; uncurl
штимувати/štymuvaty, штимує/štymuje	1) to suit, to be good for 2) passes, it fits	shtym - 1) push, shove 7) to manage to get through [a period of time], make it through [ ]: pull through [ ]
штипак/štypak	wooden fragment	shtypur - crushed; crushed flat; squashed
штуркати/šturkaty	push	shtyrë/shtyhet - to push and shove; shove each another
щуравий/ščuravyj, щюритиси/ščjurytysy	1) narrow-faced 2) to squint	shkurtër - short shkurton - 1) to shorten 2) to reduce, lessen
шарґа/šarga, Шарга/Šarha	rain with wind, cold wind with rain and snow; cold film formed after the thaw; blizzard, bad weather; sudden change in weather in the midday heat (hurricane wind with cold rain, sleet, hail, lightning)	shi/shiu - rain, rainfall shira - rains, raining
шарнути/šarnuty	to stab with a knife	sharrë - 1) saw; saw blade 2) saw mill) 3 saw-toothed ridge: (steep) mountain range, hidden reef (in the ocean); spinal column, spine; back (of cattle/horses) 4) scorched corncob used to shell corn 5) (Med) lockjaw, tetanus. As a adj 1) sawtooth; wavy 2) (of teeth) very sharp; (of a knife) dulled with an irregular edge: blunt

 

[PaleoRevenge]

This is a good time to invoke the Romanian hypothesis, the idea Vlach are the culprits of spreading the use of Paleo-Balkan terms into the Slavic Carpathians. An explanation taken at face value and accepted without any evaluation. This is based on the fact that in addition to Albanoid terms, there also exists terms of Latin origin in the Beskydes population. The Hutsul dialect in particular carries numerous words of clear Latin origin that were delivered through Romanian speech, though this is outside the scope of this thread it is suffice to say, these Latin words are numerous enough to suggests the ancestral Hutsul population was in contact with the Romanians for quite a while.

It is now apparent that Romanian did not receive much of it's Paleo-Balkan terms directly from early Albanians, but from an Albanoid(Dacian) language. To quote a very relevant and an actual competent linguist Vladimir Georgiev:

Rumanian possesses about a hundred words which have their correspondencesonly in Albanian. The form of these Rumanian words is so peculiar (e.g.Rum. mazǎre =Alb. modhullë 'pea(s)') that they cannot be explained as borrowingsfrom Albanian. This is the Dacian substratum in Rumanian, whereas the Albaniancorrespondences are inherited from Dacian.

There is an elephant in the room, the Hutsul dialect shares much more paleo-Balkan terminology with Albanian than Romanian, that it far exceeds it. The gaap is much bigger when one finds in the Hutusl dialect are literral Albanian expressions, Albanoid onomatopoeic emotional phrases, and vestigaes of action verbs, in addtion to words for speech, body parts, self/ownself and even Albanoid suffixes. Some of these will be discussed at a further point in time.

But even in the category of words that Albanian shares with Romanian, in the Hutsul we find a far more deeper connection, a far more understading and use of the etymology. I'll share three examples.

bryndza means cheese in western Ukrainian, Hutsul, Polish, Czech, Slovak and Romanian. The etymology was assumed to be related to an Albanian (within, internal, intenstines, etc...), but it was not 100% certain. The connection was guesswork solely based on the method of cheese production. When one dives into the Hutsul dialect we see the term bryndz-uvaty which means to gather in ones home often. The term is clearly related to Albanian brenda = inside, and it is often used to mean through impication to be in ones home as it is still used as such in the Arberesh dialect:

Next word is rânză, in Romanian it means tripe.

rânză - Wiktionary, the free dictionary

en.wiktionary.org

The origin was disputed but it was largely accepted it might be related to Albanian rrëndës - rrenet. In the Hutsul dialect this conneciton is proven beyond a doubt as the Hutsul's have following variations: ryndza - rennet curd mass in the stomach of a young calf. ryndzja - stomach. rendza - stomach ache. And cousin term rondjux/ryndzatyj - paunchy, big belly, stomach. The relation to Albanian rrëndës and rëndë, are self evident, while before this revelation, a connection to Romanian limted definition of rânză was only assumed.

Last example is Romanianan scrum - ash, slag. It laregly accepted as being related to Albanian shkrumb - char, chinder, carbonized residue from burning; smelly residue of scorched food stuck to the bottom of a pan. The Hustul variant has a more complete defintion that fully matches Albanian. škrum - burn, scortch, smoke, choking smoke, grime, sizzle, stifling.

In the Ukranian dictionary it even has an example of term I correctly guessed to mean a death cry, verifying my well reputed clear-sightedness : СКРЕМСНУТИСЯ/SKREMS-NUTYSJA = To come together, to clash in battle. The Ukranian dictionary uses literature examples: "He hears: from one side and from the other, wax flies at him, tui-tui to skrems-nutysja, so drives, so drives them the cry of the elders: "Go, children, for the homeland... for the homeland-u-u..." (M. Pav-lyk. Yurko Kulykov, 23)."

nuty as explained earlier is Ukranian suffix, and sja is a compounding suffix.

Onward youngmen to cremation, the ancestral Daco-Thracian war cry.

It is now apparent that Romanian could not have been the loaners of these Daco-Thracian terms to the Beskydes population, but they are rather autochthonous to the region and the Romanians and Slavs acquired them through contact with a Dacian derived population.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

It needs to be pointed out, a group of people affiliated with a extremely biased and incompetent project has tried to paint the substratum words shared by Romanian and Albanian as just Illyrian words(lol), which Romanians picked up in their former homeland near the Illyrian speech zone. Now it is proven quite convincingly that a good chunk of the inventory of Paleo-Balkan words Romanian shares with Albanian is not the result of intense contact with early Albanians, but a ghost Albanoid population that either was part of the ancestral Hutuls or related to them.

 

[Veriu]

It needs to be pointed out, a group of people affiliated with a extremely biased and incompetent project has tried to paint the substratum words shared by Romanian and Albanian as just Illyrian words(lol), which Romanians picked up in their former homeland near the Illyrian speech zone. Now it is proven quite convincingly that a good chunk of the inventory of Paleo-Balkan words Romanian shares with Albanian is not the result of intense contact with early Albanians, but a ghost Albanoid population that either was part of the ancestral Hutuls or related to them.

The "extremely biased" group in question consists of the linguistic consensus today including Joachim Matzinger:

A widespread opinion regard sthe older category of the Albano-Rumanian common lexicon as the reflex of an ancient substratum of Thracian, Dacian, or unknown origin (a collection of these words is Brâncuş 1983). Aside from a few single words of perhaps non-Indo-European origin (Albanian-modhullë‘ [Lathyrus aphaca]’~Rumanian mazăre ‘pea’), the largest part of this alleged substratum common to both Albanian and Rumanian consists simply of loan-words in Rumanian from Proto-Albanian, e.g. Rumanian ţarc‘pen for young livestock’ from Proto-Albanian */tsárka-/ (Modern Albanian thark). The derivational base of this noun is continued in the Old Albanian verb thurën ‘interweave’ (< IE*/k̑erH-/ ‘weave’, cf. Latincrātis‘pen’; see details in Schumacher 2009: 43−45)

There's no substratum, most of them are loanwords from Albanian to Romanian relatively late in the Roman Balkans. The only incompetence in display is that which shows glaring ignorance about linguistics.

 

[Veriu]

Needless to say that all lists of words posted are nonsensical. They're just random terms which can't be connected to each other based on any linguistic theory or notion.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

Needless to say that all lists of words posted are nonsensical. They're just random terms which can't be connected to each other based on any linguistic theory or notion.

 

[Veriu]

It is now apparent that Romanian could not have been the loaners of these Daco-Thracian terms to the Beskydes population, but they are rather autochthonous to the region and the Romanians and Slavs acquired them through contact with a Dacian derived population.

It's apparent that you don't know anything about linguistics. Terms in your lists have zero "Albanoid-Carpathian" connections, but there's a small example which shows how meaningless the post series is. You wrote that somehow the rare Rusyn word шкрум comes from Proto-Albanian because Albanian today has the term shkrumb. Proto-Albanian didn't have such a term though, it had the prefix *iš + the term *kruma, which in medieval Albanian had created what today is perceived as a single term.

So how did Rusyns potentially (I say potentially because there are other valid explanations) learn a medieval (as in, not Proto-Albanian) term. Hmm? Oh wait, Romanian has the same term as a loanword from Albanian and it's an exact match for the Rusyn term:

Cheers. You need to try more.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

The "extremely biased" group in question consists of the linguistic consensus today including Joachim Matzinger:

A widespread opinion regard sthe older category of the Albano-Rumanian common lexicon as the reflex of an ancient substratum of Thracian, Dacian, or unknown origin (a collection of these words is Brâncuş 1983). Aside from a few single words of perhaps non-Indo-European origin (Albanian-modhullë‘ [Lathyrus aphaca]’~Rumanian mazăre ‘pea’), the largest part of this alleged substratum common to both Albanian and Rumanian consists simply of loan-words in Rumanian from Proto-Albanian, e.g. Rumanian ţarc‘pen for young livestock’ from Proto-Albanian */tsárka-/ (Modern Albanian thark). The derivational base of this noun is continued in the Old Albanian verb thurën ‘interweave’ (< IE*/k̑erH-/ ‘weave’, cf. Latincrātis‘pen’; see details in Schumacher 2009: 43−45)

There's no substratum, most of them are loanwords from Albanian to Romanian relatively late in the Roman Balkans. The only incompetence in display is that which shows glaring ignorance about linguistics.

Appeal to authority fallacy. Matzinger is not replying to my thread, if he has an opinion let him state it. In light of new evidence, he is wrong. But you are not him, but you pretend to speak in his name.

Your example is another L, as Romanians got tarc from the Hutstuls.

OBCARKOVANYJ(ОБЦАРКОВАНИЙ), broken out as OB-CARK-OVANYJ - fenced. Ob means enclosing, around in Ukranianian.
CAROK(ЦАРОК) - 1) a fenced-off place in a barn (less often – in a hut) for young animals. 2) a fenced-off part of the sheepfold.
CERUVATY(ЦЕРУВАТИ) - Cer-uvaty - to darn
CYRKA(ЦИРКА) - Mesh. An openwork pattern made in place of threads pulled out of the fabric. Embroidery
CYRKOVANYJ(ЦИРКОВАНИЙ), CYROVANYJ/(ЦИРОВАНИЙ) - Lace

Both words are related to each other and have the eventual same root. Fence is related to Albanian thark(From Proto-Albanian *tsarka). And darn/weaving/mesh is related to Albania thur(From Proto-Albanian *tsurja)
thur - 1) to plait, braid, interweave 2) to knit
thurimë - 1) thing made of interlaced components: mesh, knitting, braid, wattle, wickerwork 2) wattled fence

Even in the example you chose to quote, the Hutsul dialect shows a much closer connection to Albanian than Romanian, in fact the Hutsul variations have a full coverage to Albanian definitions, while Romanain is limited to fence. lol

To quote the holly goroh:

borrowing from Polish;n. cerować "to darn, [to embroider, to embroider]" has no definite etymology;

Poles learned something from the Gorales.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

It's apparent that you don't know anything about linguistics. Terms in your lists have zero "Albanoid-Carpathian" connections, but there's a small example which shows how meaningless the post series is. You wrote that somehow the rare Rusyn word шкрум comes from Proto-Albanian because Albanian today has the term shkrumb. Proto-Albanian didn't have such a term though, it had the prefix *iš + the term *kruma, which in medieval Albanian had created what today is perceived as a single term.

So how did Rusyns potentially (I say potentially because there are other valid explanations) learn a medieval (as in, not Proto-Albanian) term. Hmm? Oh wait, Romanian has the same term as a loanword from Albanian and it's an exact match for the Rusyn term:

View attachment 18662

Cheers. You need to try more.

A non-argument, this is embarrassing. So up to 600 AD the term was iš-kruma. In Albanian it developed to shkrumb or škrumb and in Hutsul it developed to škrum. This is laughable that I have to point this out. Not only are they not far off, but related language groups do develop similarly.

There is nothing to debate.

So how did Rusyns potentially (I say potentially because there are other valid explanations) learn a medieval (as in, not Proto-Albanian) term. Hmm? Oh wait, Romanian has the same term as a loanword from Albanian and it's an exact match for the Rusyn term:

We're not talking about Rusyns, most Rusyn dialect will not have škrum in their language. You are living in a fictional world, debating fictional scenarios.

 

[Veriu]

Appeal to authority fallacy. Matzinger is not replying to my thread, if he has an opinion let him state it. In light of new evidence, he is wrong. But you are not him, but you pretend to speak in his name.

No, it's not to authority, it's to linguistic arguments developed over decades of serious research which you don't understand and therefore you can't engage with it.

Your example is another L, as Romanians got tarc from the Hutstuls.

They most obviously didn't because not only Romanian but Aromanian also has the term țarc /t͡sark/ and even Greek from Aromanian as tsarkos. Did the Aromanians who never crossed the Danube learn the term from Hutsuls in Transcarpathia? It couldn't have happened.

What could have happened and what did happen is that when Vlachs reached the Carpathians, they brought with them loanwords from Albanian.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

They most obviously didn't because not only Romanian but Aromanian also has the term țarc /t͡sark/ and even Greek from Aromanian as tsarkos. Did the Aromanians who never crossed the Danube learn the term from Hutsuls in Transcarpathia? It couldn't have happened.

What could have happened and what did happen is that when Vlachs reached the Carpathians, they brought with them loanwords from Albanian.

Unfortunately for the Vlachs they forgot most of the Albanian terms, but somehow managed to teach it to the Hutsuls first before forgetting. Amazing.

 

[Veriu]

A non-argument, this is embarrassing. So up to 600 AD the term was iš-kruma. In Albanian it developed to shkrumb or škrumb and in Hutsul it developed to škrum. This is laughable that I have to point this out. Not only are they not far off, but related language groups do develop similarly.

Nothing develops similarly anywhere in this case. There's an Albanian loanword in Balkan Latin and Romanian transmitted it to Carpathians. It's pretty obvious.

There is nothing to debate.

Of course there's nothing to debate about. You didn't bring any arguments because there aren't any. You just imagined that a Romanian word is not a loanword in a Slavic language which exists nearby but instead the term comes from a ghost Albanoid population which has never been found instead of the very real language which uses the term.

We're not talking about Rusyns, most Rusyn dialect will not have škrum in their language. You are living in a fictional world, debating fictional scenarios.

The term is in the Ruthenian (Rusyn) dictionary. You just didn't know it because you never searched for anything.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

Nothing develops similarly anywhere in this case. There's an Albanian loanword in Balkan Latin and Romanian transmitted it to Carpathians. It's pretty obvious.

Yeah they do, check out Slavic languages.

The term is in the Ruthenian (Rusyn) dictionary. You just didn't know it because you never searched for anything.

Ask the average Rusyn what skrum means.

 

[Veriu]

Unfortunately for the Vlachs they forgot most of the Albanian terms, but somehow managed to teach it to the Hutsuls first before forgetting. Amazing.

Unfortunately for you, the term which exists in Aromanian and other varieties derived from Common Romanian of the early middle ages couldn't have been a loanword from a Slavic language to Aromanian and Greek.

Tsarkos in Epirote Vlach and Greek. This is the term that 15' ago you claimed that Romanians learned from Hutsuls in Transcarpathia. The obvious fact is that this loanword from Albanian to all Common Romanian varieties was loaned by Vlachs to Slavs when they reached Transcarpathia as it was loaned from Vlachs to Greek speakers. Or should we make up another "ghost Albanoid" population that taught the term to Greeks? "Ghost Albanoids" must have been everywhere.

One more session where the ludicrousness of your "theory" becomes apparent will have to end at the moment. I've got other things to do.
довиждане

.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

Romanian shares more substratum words with Albanian than Vlach does, this strange phenomena has puzled linguists. Being that the Vlach remained neighbors to Albanian and never migrated north, it should be the other way around, with Romanians sharing less, and Vlach sharing more. I have solved an enigma no one could crack.

Common Romanian of the early middle ages couldn't have been a loanword from a Slavic language to Aromanian and Greek.

Haha, can't help but being dishonest.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

In the dictionaries, I found two words of clear Albanian suffix, there could be other types of suffixes but that was not my focus went I reviewed, so i only picked up the most obvious.

плугатар/pluhatar	a person who plows the land with a plow	From the Slavic word for plough- pluh. The suffix -tar is unquestionably Albanoid
СУМАТАР/SUMATAR	a very rich man; someone who has a lot of money	Likely a borrowing through Polish suma - An amount or quantity of money. And finished with a clear Albanian suffix.

Sumatar is interesting because if we are to assume the word entered usage through the Polish commonwealth period. That means in the 1600s the Hutsuls were still constructing words using Albanian suffix.

ChatGPT take on tar being potentially a loan:

2. Problem with this explanation​

But… there’s a puzzle:

• The suffix -tar is extremely productive in Albanian. Much more than in Romanian or Slavic borrowings.
• It combines freely with native Albanian roots, even those that never had any contact with Latin.
  
  • kërcim (jump) → kërcimtar “dancer, jumper.”
  • dashuri (love) → dashuritar “lover.”
  • shpresë (hope) → shpresëtar “one who hopes.”

This heavy productivity suggests it is not just a borrowed suffix like in Slavic (плугатар is rare and tied to a Romance model), but rather naturalized deeply into the Albanian word-formation system.

The additional reason to doubt it, is the appearance in the Hutsul language.

Another word assumed to be of latin origin is shqipoj, the etymology trail is very weak. To quote a site that can be edited at any moment:

Etymology​

Compound of shqip + -oj (“I”) (active voice personal suffix).

Origin of shqip is disputed:

• Petar Skok suggested that shqip originated from Scupi (Shkup), the capital of the Roman province of Dardania (today's Skopje).<a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/shqipoj#cite_note-1"><span>[</span>1<span>]</span></a>
• Also claimed as from Latin excipere;,<a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/shqipoj#cite_note-2"><span>[</span>2<span>]</span></a><a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/shqipoj#cite_note-3"><span>[</span>3<span>]</span></a><a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/shqipoj#cite_note-4"><span>[</span>4<span>]</span></a> a compound of Latin ex- + capiō (“to take out”)

1. sh- (“de-, dis-, ex-”) from the same root as ith (“behind”), namely Proto-Indo-European *h₁eǵʰs - from which Latin Latin ex- also derived and is a cognate to Albanian sh-.<a href="https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/shqipoj#cite_note-5"><span>[</span>5<span>]</span></a>

• Might be a deverbal from shqipe, shkype, modern forms of the old term shkabë (“eagle”); which derived from Proto-Albanian *iš-gabā, from Proto-Indo-European *kobuǵos. A cognate to English hawk, Latin capys (“bird of prey”), Russian ко́бец (kóbec, “falcon”) and Romanian scaba (“white-tailed eagle, sea eagle”)

In the Hutsul language there is a very interesting word:

ЩЕПА/ŠČEPA

Genus, kin," "stock," "tribe," or even "race". Example: "There is in the Slavic ščepi some kind of inclination toward disorder; it is vividly manifested in the Hutsuls."

shqip and shqiptar?

That is a funny way of talking/sentence "slavic shqipe". Albanian shqip and shqiptar which has no proper etymology is much better explained through a Dacian word Shqepa - kin, stock, tribe, race. Cheers.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

Time to move on to the Ukranian dictionary and makes some corrections to prior posts

АГИВ див. ГИВ АГІ, АГІ-І, АГІЙ, ІГІ, ІГІЙ, ІЙ, ІЙ-ГА, ІЙГА, ІЙ-ГІЙ, ГІЙ, ГІ-Й, ОГІЙ/AHYV dyv. HYV, AHI, AHI-I, AHIJ, IHI, IHIJ, IJ, IJ-HA, IJHA, IJ-HIJ, HIJ, HI-J, OHIJ	exclamation. Used to express indignation, irritation, 1) Anger or rebuke 2) Disgust or contempt 3) Astonishment or disbelief 4) Irritation, exasperation, or warning 5) Sudden fear or shock. Examples: – "Ahi!!! Adivy stupid! He had nothing to do and he brought upon himself a sudden death (D. Kharovyuk. Licitatsiya, 539); I have long needed to cut them out. Why should a poor man be afraid of anyone? Ahi!"	ahu - expresses indifference or contempt: pooh! *In both languages, they appear at the start of sentences, or stand alone
atiak/atik/atiyk, отік/otik	as if, as though, as in, just like	atillë - 1) such as that, like that 2) such
ашош/ašoš, АСЬ’ИК/ASʹ’YK	of course, usually, certainly. It seems that. Apparently. It seems.	ashtu - 1) in that way, that way, thus, like that 2) so 3) somewhat; so-so; somehow; about the same asi/asish/aso/asosh(archaic forms) - such, like, similar
БЕРЕЗУВАТИ/BEREZUVATY	To fulfill the duties of a "berezy". Example: But he always neglected his camp of carol singers in order to be ready, because if at Christmas the church brotherhood and the men from the parish pressured him to go to "berezuvaty" in his old age, then he would not want to become a laughing stock without a good camp of carol singers (P. Shekeryk-Donyk. Grandfather Ivanchik, 71).	brezatar - of or pertaining to a generation or lineage; of the same generation, of the same age brezni - 1) generation, age mates, the members of a generation taken as a whole 2) (Biol) descendants of a generational line
БЕРЕЗА/BEREZA	The leader of a group of carol singers, the main actor of the carol singing performance, who selects participants, repertoire.	brezatar - of or pertaining to a generation or lineage; of the same generation, of the same age brezni - 1) generation, age mates, the members of a generation taken as a whole 2) (Biol) descendants of a generational line

 

[PaleoRevenge]

Interesting points, first word is a onomatopoeic emotional expression. This is not only such example, but it's is still important to list them as it is highly unlikely two unrelated languages share various onomatopoeic words for no reason.

atiak is from the Polish(Hutsul) dictionary, otik is from Ukranian sources. Gorogh makes an attempt to explain otik and it's pure guessing relying on wild semantic shift in definition. What's more important I was not aware of asi/asish/aso/asosh, which of same root but different from ashtu, and considered more archaic. Both variants asi/asish and aso/asosh are present in Hutsul (ašoš, asyk). And even more important atillë and asosh are simply two different grammatical forms that evolved from the same remote demonstrative root. Such examples are not singletons but quite repetitive in other unrelated words of different root base but folllow the same pattern, semantic diversity/variety of the root word matches Albanian semantic shifts. I am in the process reorganizing my list.

Last example is another beauty, in the following article(http://bukcentre.cv.ua/index.php/na...ukovynske-rizdvo/5020-yak-tse-berezuvaty.html) Hutsul bereza can be summarized as follows:

Key roles of the bereza

• Leadership and experience: The bereza is the most important member of the caroling group, chosen for his experience and knowledge of the carols and rituals.
• Ritualistic duties: The bereza is responsible for leading the group through their performances, ensuring the carols and dances are performed correctly. He is also the one who begins and ends the caroling in each home, and his leadership ensures the proper execution of the Christmas traditions.
• Community representation: The bereza embodies the wisdom and tradition of the community. At the conclusion of the Christmas season, a large gathering called a Rozkolyada is often held at the bereza's home, where the caroling group celebrates and carols for him and his family.

The word has a good explanation through Albanian, which also extends to community gatherings such as those in southern Albanian "takim brezash" for annual village gatherings, a gathering that brings different generations together.
It's worth reading goroh explantion, they are shooting from the hip: https://goroh.pp.ua/Етимологія/БЕРЕЗА#1638

 

[PaleoRevenge]

БЕРФЕЛА/BERFELA, БЕРФЕЛ/BERFEL	A wooden device on which a cauldron is hungover a fire in a meadow during cheese making.	mbërthen - 1) to fasten [ ] securely; button [ ] up, secure [ ] with a clasp 2) to secure by nailing: nail 3) to put [ ] securely in place: fasten 4) to grip tight: clamp, clutch 5) to hitch up: yoke [oxen], harness [horses]
БИГОВАТИЙ/BYHOVATYJ	Changeable, changeable (about the weather). Example: "He said that if there are forty saints’ days with forty types of weather, then the whole summer will be uneven, byhovate, like March weather."	beh - to happen suddenly/unexpectedly, pop up
БИГУВАТИ/BYHUVATY	To have a desire, to want. Example: “And I would like to get from you a two-colored marten for that young man, so that he would have someone to live with, as your girl would byhuvaty for him,” – said Ivanchik, that Kostyuk would byhuvaty to take the daughter for his son, and that she is Dmitrushev’s ward, only no one knows what she will say about it. (P. Shekeryk-Donykov. Grandfather Ivanchik, 216).	bëhet - 1) to become, get; turn, turn into 2) to ripen 3) to appear 4) to happen, occur
БИЗІВНИЙ/BYZIVNYJ, БІЗІВНИЙ/BIZIVNYJ, НАБИЗІВНО/NABYZIVNO, НАБІЗІВНО/NABIZIVNO, НАБЕЗІВНО/NABEZIVNO	Reliable, safe. Example: He knows that Nikolai is a "byzivnyj" man, but he cannot believe his words (A. Krushelnytsky. Chopping the Forest, 386).	besnik - 1) true to one's word, faithful, trustworthy, loyal, honorable 2) faithful (to), accurate, accurately reflecting
БИЗІВНІШЕ/BYZIVNIŠE	More certain, safer	besim - belief, conviction; faith; trust, reliance besë - 1) pledge, word of honor 2) faith 3) [Old] pledge taken by a family to take revenge on the murderer of a member of that family within a particular period of time; truce between the two parties to a blood-feud; truce period; the protection enjoyed by a guest during his stay with the host; protection, custody, aegis 4) [Colloq] religious faith, religion 5) alliance; faithfulness 6) trust, belief
БИЗІВНО/BYZIVNO, БІЗІВНО/BIZIVNO, БІЗИВНО/BIZYVNO	Certainly, exactly, undoubtedly, safely	besim - belief, conviction; faith; trust, reliance

 

[PaleoRevenge]

First word Goroh attributes to Romanian/Moldovanian, given that this word is not listed on wiktionary it is definitely dialectal restricted and has no known etymology. It is very likely a Dacian Carpathian word borrowed into Romanian not the other way around.

byh-uvaty is clearly related to an entry from Romanian-Hutsul dictionary where the definition was more accurate as the author listed to plan. The author of the Ukranian dicitonary is focusing on the intenion but is not familiar with meaning of the root word, te bëj/bëhet is used in common Albanain talk when to parents relatives are trying to match couples for marriage, it simply means to become, and of course there is desire behind it, but that's not the root meaning behind the word. Ukranian linguists are missing out. The Albanoid root explanation is re-enforced by the secondary semantic shift in meaning changeable/sudden weather, which in turn strengthens my hypothesis overall as Hutsul words are not one off cognate lookalikes, the semantic drift in meaning mirrors Albanian forms.

Byz/biz is attributed as a loan from Hngarian: bíz. But the Hungarian word has no etymology hence no explanation, and the distribution is clearly Carpathian-Beskides. https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bíz

I am certain that similarity to Albanian bes was never noticed because of the taboo of the alleged Illyric roots of Albanian language, and likely a hostile environment that has existed and still exists in academia on the topic.