Immigration What should Europeans do with illegal immigrants?

[concerned_european]

We Europeans are somewhat responsible for that mess.
Some people should go look back into the History books and see how and why that mess escalated.
Colonialism + 2 world wars, and a region divided with a ruler and a set-square. And Europe allways backing up or ignoring United States schemes in the region.
They have the Atlantic Ocean to protect them, we have the Mediterranean Sea.

 

[Kardu]

There would be fewer refugees if not ISIS fighters from Georgia!

On your childish path again...

I guess you haven't bothered to read the article as usual. The criminal in question is not from a country affected by ISIS violence.

 

[Kardu]

We Europeans are somewhat responsible for that mess.
Some people should go look back into the History books and see how and why that mess escalated.
Colonialism + 2 world wars, and a region divided with a ruler and a set-square. And Europe allways backing up or ignoring United States schemes in the region.
They have the Atlantic Ocean to protect them, we have the Mediterranean Sea.

Give me a break... If we blame it on colonialism since when losers are dictating their will to victors then?

 

[Vallicanus]

Did you ever break a law? Let the one without a sin to cast first stone...

He thinks he's Jesus!

 

[Vallicanus]

so, you can't find a convincing answer

Of course he can't.

 

[DejaVu]

Kalmar (Sweden), Published: 2 September 2015

http://www.ostrasmaland.se/kalmar/kristna-tvingades-flytta-fran-asylboende-efter-hot/
Christians were forced to move from the asylum accommodation for threats


A group of Christians asylum seekers have been forced to move from one of the Migration Board accommodations in Kalmar County since they harassed and threatened by fundamentalist Islamists.


The Christian group feared for his own safety after it was demanded that they would stop wearing Christian symbols, like crosses around their necks. They were not welcome in the common areas, like kitchens when the aggressive Muslim group was there.


- They chose on their own to find another accommodation, said a person with good insight into the business, to our newspaper. They dared not stay. The atmosphere became too intimidating. And they got no help.


Mikael Lönnegren in Högsby is deputy director of the Migration Board's premises in Kalmar. He confirmed that a group of Christian asylum seekers felt forced to move from an asylum accommodation for conflicts with Muslim residents.


- It is of course totally unacceptable that something like this happens, he says. We look very seriously at this.


- Hot that fall under the Criminal Code is a police thing, but obviously there is a responsibility on us. We will now make information work centers to try to ensure that similar does not happen again.


Mikael Lönnegren emphasizes that it was the Swedish Migration Board decided to move the Christian group. It was a decision they made themselves, and they also arranged accommodation on their own.


There is no division of ethnicity, or religion Immigration Service detention centers. People from different sides in a conflict may thus end up in the same accommodation.


- We assume that those fleeing to obtain refuge in our country are also following our country's laws when they come here, says Mikael Lönnegren.


He says that it is so short of places for asylum seekers that it would be impossible to make a distinction based on religious beliefs. Events such as the current does not happen often in the barracks, but taken very seriously by the Migration Board, he says.


Get similar incidents have been reported previously from the Swedish asylum accommodation. In Germany and Denmark, however, the discussion has been more lively.


In Germany, it has been required special asylum accommodation for Christians.


The Christian asylum seekers in Sweden comes mainly from Syria and Iraq.


Most asylum seekers in Sweden currently come from Syria, ten percent of the population is Christian. Any registration of religion is not done to the Migration Board, if not religion specified as grounds for asylum.


Last year, 81,301 people sought asylum in Sweden. A very large majority came from Muslim countries. 30,000 came from Syria, 11,000 from Eritrea, 5000 from Somalia and 3,000 from Afghanistan, 8,000 were stateless, mostly Palestinians.


More than two out of three asylum seekers were men. 54 000 men applied for asylum, but only 26 000 women.

 

[LeBrok]

so, you can't find a convincing answer

I don't understand your response? You can help them on so many levels that one can write a book about this.
Education, enrolling young smart people in European universities, so they can learn business and management. Share intelligence information about known Daesh members, so they can protect their borders better. Entice european companies to invest and create jobs there. Go on vacation there to support their economy. And so on.
How much you need to be convinced to help one democratic country in North Africa? Would you rather left them alone, so they can get overwhelmed by Daesh, and you have more refugees on your hand to deal with?

 

[bicicleur 2]

I don't understand your response? You can help them on so many levels that one can write a book about this.
Education, enrolling young smart people in European universities, so they can learn business and management. Share intelligence information about known Daesh members, so they can protect their borders better. Entice european companies to invest and create jobs there. Go on vacation there to support their economy. And so on.
How much you need to be convinced to help one democratic country in North Africa? Would you rather left them alone, so they can get overwhelmed by Daesh, and you have more refugees on your hand to deal with?

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-33300776

how will you stop these attacks?

there have been 2 last summer

2 more next summer are enough to take away the main source of income for Tunisia

then ISIS can start recruiting there too

next stop : Morrocco ? Southern Italy ?

you can't stop all this unless you declare war to ISIS and Islamic fundamentalism

 

[LeBrok]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-33300776

how will you stop these attacks?

there have been 2 last summer

2 more next summer are enough to take away the main source of income for Tunisia

then ISIS can start recruiting there too

next stop : Morrocco ? Southern Italy ?

you can't stop all this unless you declare war to ISIS and Islamic fundamentalism

I believe Europe already declared war on ISIS, at least the countries which take part in bombing campaigns in Syria. It is becoming obvious that bombing campaniles, though stopped advances in Iraq, are not enough to defeat Daesh. It would bring stability in the region, stopped refugee flight from Syria, and help new democracies to survive.
The cost of ground war in Syria could be smaller than supporting fresh refugees in Europe.

 

[bicicleur 2]

I believe Europe already declared war on ISIS, at least the countries which take part in bombing campaigns in Syria. It is becoming obvious that bombing campaniles, though stopped advances in Iraq, are not enough to defeat Daesh. It would bring stability in the region, stopped refugee flight from Syria, and help new democracies to survive.
The cost of ground war in Syria could be smaller than supporting fresh refugees in Europe.

if they don't want to go themselves then they could at least provide better arms for the Kurds
but Turkey plays a very ambiguous role in this

there is also refugees coming from Yemen now
the Saudis are even bombing hospitals in Yemen now
if it were American planes, how big would the outrage have been?

we should be more clear and more carefull in chosing our allies

 

[LeBrok]

if they don't want to go themselves then they could at least provide better arms for the Kurds
but Turkey plays a very ambiguous role in this

That's a big problem. Turkey is eager to attack Kurds more than ISIS, thanks to their phobia of independent Kurdistan. US still proceeds with their politics of unified Iraq, therefore all weapons go through very corrupted Iraqi government, which doesn't like independent Kurdistan, and at the end Kurds got some leftovers of arms to fight. It is really a crime against Kurds. However if Kurds got heavy weapons, it is not sure if they would attack Daesh to the end, through all Daesh held territory, to destroy it compliantly. I would guess that main goal of Kurds is to keep Daesh off territory of Kurds and concentrate on consolidating new Kurdistan. If Kurds get extended too much in pursuing and defeating Daesh, it will be more difficult for them to resist attacks of Iraq and Turkey in short future.

there is also refugees coming from Yemen now
the Saudis are even bombing hospitals in Yemen now
if it were American planes, how big would the outrage have been?

I'm afraid there might be a big Sunni/Shia war coming in Middle East. We might be for even a bigger mess in near future, before things quiet down.
We can draw a parallel from falling regimes of Easter Europe 25 years ago. There was a war in Yugoslavia, before it got better. Still there is much hatred in Balkans and Russia is menacing around the old ways. These things take time to fall in place.

we should be more clear and more careful in chosing our allies

I think we are after Libya and Iraq, that's why Syrian refugee crisis bites us now. Europe is well off and peaceful now, that's why it attracts tons of refugees. Damned if we do, damned if we don't. lol

 

[Boreas]

A dialogue should start with Assad, Free Syria and Kurds

Future of Iraq and Iraq Kurdistan should be more clear.

 

[epoch]

The cost of ground war in Syria could be smaller than supporting fresh refugees in Europe.

I thought you were promoting the idea that supporting refugees would pay back, that immigrant were an asset to society? Furthermore, have you any idea what colossal hornets nest you would get yourself into if you started fighting in Syria? Did Iraq turn out well? Two third of Iraq were the target of Saddam's oppression machine only because of their decent, and even the Sunni's lived under a harsh dictatorship. You'd say - As Rumsfeld did - they'd welcome the Americans with flowers.

If you would say the cost of such an operation id even lower than supporting fresh refugees in Europe than you basically admit that those costs of refugees are tremendous.

 

[epoch]

@LeBrok

Read this anecdote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobra_effect

 

[bicicleur 2]

I thought you were promoting the idea that supporting refugees would pay back, that immigrant were an asset to society? Furthermore, have you any idea what colossal hornets nest you would get yourself into if you started fighting in Syria? Did Iraq turn out well? Two third of Iraq were the target of Saddam's oppression machine only because of their decent, and even the Sunni's lived under a harsh dictatorship. You'd say - As Rumsfeld did - they'd welcome the Americans with flowers.

If you would say the cost of such an operation id even lower than supporting fresh refugees in Europe than you basically admit that those costs of refugees are tremendous.

if you don't want Europe to send ground troops, why don't you give some more weapons to the Kurds ?
if they could defend themselves better, there would be less refugees from that side
furthermore Muslim fundamentalism worldwide should be stopped
Saudi Arabia is funding these preachers of hatred ; Saudi Arabia should be boycotted

and yes, the refugees cost a lot of money, it is true
I am sick and tired of all those polticaly correct lies being told the last few decades
the refugees should be helped if possible
but we also should be aware of the costs and consequences
there are limits to what can be done
we should not attract the refugees
and we should not give them full European citizenship from day 1
there should be conditions

 

[Yetos]

THE bellow is a true story that happened at Athens yesterday,
the case went even to police for reporting what happened,

A fanatic Muslim gets in the taxi,
after 2 minutes he ask the taxi driver to close the radio and the music,
the taxi driver asks why? and the Arab answers 'cause the times of prophet there were no radios, neither electric music, it is evil instrument'
the taxi driver obeys and turns off the radio,
after 1 minute he stops the taxi, and opens the door, and waits outsides his taxi,
the Arab ask him what is he doing? and yells that he is going to be late at his works etc etc,
and the drivers answer,
'at the times of prophet there were not Taxi, so it is an evil instrument as radio, and I think better not to be inside and drive an evil instrument'

 

[LeBrok]

A dialogue should start with Assad, Free Syria and Kurds

Future of Iraq and Iraq Kurdistan should be more clear.

I'm not sure if anyone would speak to Assad after he killed hundred thousands Syrians. He should be out.

 

[LeBrok]

I thought you were promoting the idea that supporting refugees would pay back, that immigrant were an asset to society?

I suggested it to people like you who doesn't believe in positive impact of migrants, as an alternative.

Furthermore, have you any idea what colossal hornets nest you would get yourself into if you started fighting in Syria?

yes, it is always better to hid ones head in sand.

Did Iraq turn out well?

Iraq was Iragis to mess up, keep strong and united, but there was no will and too much hate. Ones Iraq falls into 3 independent states the things will quiet down. It should have been done right when GB withdrew from Middle East long time ago.

Two third of Iraq were the target of Saddam's oppression machine only because of their decent, and even the Sunni's lived under a harsh dictatorship. You'd say - As Rumsfeld did - they'd welcome the Americans with flowers.

They would cheer anyone who could save them from Saddam. During Desert storm they were surrendering faster than Americans could count. Too bad Bush Sr. betrayed them.

f you would say the cost of such an operation id even lower than supporting fresh refugees in Europe than you basically admit that those costs of refugees are tremendous.

It is tremendous, but also tremendous benefit ones they settled in. It is like investing in your own kids..., wait Europeans don't have kids.

Any chance you came up with Dutch stats about settled for longer migrants paying taxes, unemployment etc?

 

[LeBrok]

if you don't want Europe to send ground troops, why don't you give some more weapons to the Kurds ?
if they could defend themselves better, there would be less refugees from that side
furthermore Muslim fundamentalism worldwide should be stopped
Saudi Arabia is funding these preachers of hatred ; Saudi Arabia should be boycotted

He is afraid of Cobra effect therefore going for Ostrich effect.

we should not attract the refugees

Try to stay poor.

and we should not give them full European citizenship from day 1
there should be conditions

I don't think there is a citizenship given right away in any country, but rather permanent visa and permission to work.

 

[LeBrok]

Pope stole my idea:
Pope Francis Urges European Churches To Take In Refugees, Because It's Not Enough To Say "Hang In There"
http://www.bustle.com/articles/1088...n-refugees-because-its-not-enough-to-say-hang

There is enough empty housing in Europe to help them stay safe till peace in Syria.