Religion why are not u a muslim?

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Marhabaa!
moslema said:
shariaa..old fashioned...how????

Read my last post on the sharia...:)
Ok, If I am mistaken about "heaven", forgive me....I am looking forward to your answers.

اطيب لتمنيا ت Sorry if mistype..my keyboard is teasing me...
 
Miss_apollo7 said:
Marhabaa moslema. Ahlan wa sahlan.

I have two questions for you, what do you think about the sharia law?

My opinion:
When you look at criminal law and civil law, you find different sharia-provisions and their employment in several Muslim countries.
This is very clear from Universal Islamic Declaration of Human Rights from 1981. This document has this definition on the sharia Muslim law:
That every ordinances, which stems from the Koran and Sunna [accounts and doings by prophets which are told in the ?hadith?], and all other laws, which are deduced from these two sources, can be considered valid in the Islamic law.
This can?t be joined with ?western? understanding of law and rights.
Mainly because:
Among the widespread sharia-provisions is the man?s right to cast off wives, who do not please him, and women?s lack of rights on their own children, women?s duty to always be under supervision of a guardian and the man?s rights to physically punish their wives and children.

Another question:
What do you think of the book Why I Am Not a Muslim by Ibn Warraq? He says that the sharia does not distinguish between law and rituals?and that the sharia is too controlling interfering in every aspect of a man?s daily life. Do you agree?

Looking forward to your answers.:)


excuse me Miss APollo..

i will-in shaa Allah-answer u tomorrow.....it is too late

u look very cultured ..

my respect!
 
60Yen said:
Since you're an agnost. I've got a question for you.

There is a submarine, but you can't see the submarine because it's submerged. Is there a submarine or not? An agnost would say it isn't there, because you cannot see it... would you say that?

Truth is more as a broken mirror and everyone picked up a broken piece.

Let's see. If the submarine is submerged, and I can't see it...how would I know it's there in the first place? Of course it's there, but I don't know about it. If I saw it go down, or my friend saw it go down, then I would believe them. But if some random guy walked up to me and said "Hey look! A submarine!" And pointed to some random spot in the ocean I'd probably smile and nod, and not believe them.

So yes, I suppose I need to see some sort of proof in order to believe.
 
moslema said:
i ask them "what dont u like islam?

that a man can marry more than....and a woman cant!"

and not only 1 woman wants it..except"(...)

not a man likes to b a 2nd husband!
Actually, I'm more of a monogamist than anything else. Too risky to be promiscuous (& too exhausting for a lazy man). But the question of polygamy (yeah, I know, promiscuity is not polygamy, but the effects are similar) wasn't covered by anyone else, & it's interesting.

I think, in Germany was done a survey on "having affairs while in a relationship" quite recently. It showed that there are more women than men who had affairs, hence it seems that the urge for more than one sex partner is at least as big in women as in men.

But I suppose, we have to agree to disagree on that.
 
polygamy..

Bossel..here is the ordinary life that we live..



an (ill-old.....)woman .she loves her husband,he does love her.

she cant lead a normal life cos of her disease.here r the choices

1)the wife stays with the husband ho has to take this

a- he\deprived of many of his rights..sour.................???

b)she feels guilty

c)children\unstable


2)the decissionof getting apart

a-she\completely lonely..no husband nor children..no fellow in pain

b-he\guilty-sorry for giving up her

c-children\haterd among a prapable coming familythese r ur only choises..

but i can tell u that

there r many women in any society that:
NEED to get married..settle down..live the life even as a 2nd wife.

examples\
u do know many ex.that the 1st wd accept staying even with a new woman and a 2nd woman that accepts to b the 2nd.

in islam:
1 of his wives-the 1st after death of Khadija the 1st at al-
i mean(Sauda bent zamaa)..she got too old about 80.being a wife the prophet must give her all her rights (including the sexual r.)..well..when he felt he cdnt give her all her rights..he,himself asked her if..her opinion in divorce
she refused,,asked him to stay with him and let her day (her turn in meeting him)to (Aesha) .

and dont miss that u can get married to 1 woman.(this is what happens usually)

Miss_apollo7 said:
Marhabaa!


Read my last post on the sharia...:)
Ok, If I am mistaken about "heaven", forgive me....I am looking forward to your answers.

اطيب لتمنيا ت Sorry if mistype..my keyboard is teasing me...
السلام عليكم

well, i didnt read the book..but the opinion(rituals-rules)is very common.


islam is not only believing in Allah.it is a system of life.if u believe in ALLAH who created u and everyone..every creature in universe,u will
accept this graet sys. and apply it to ur own life.it will be the pattern of clear values in ur life wich is full of changale factors.

so let s talk about a certain idea in shariaa..u begin!
ولك اطيب امنياتي بالهداية الى طريق الله القويم.

DragonChan said:
Let's see. If the submarine is submerged, and I can't see it...how would I know it's there in the first place? Of course it's there, but I don't know about it. If I saw it go down, or my friend saw it go down, then I would believe them. But if some random guy walked up to me and said "Hey look! A submarine!" And pointed to some random spot in the ocean I'd probably smile and nod, and not believe them.

So yes, I suppose I need to see some sort of proof in order to believe.

what if u and ur friend were in the same place while it was going down?

what if that rndom guy showed u a kind of a messege from the submarine..as aclue?

what if u do see bubbles or whatever telling u that there (may really be)
something dow there?

wdnt u believe the random guy??

i do.

what exactly do u need... to believe?

RockLee said:
@1 : that's being rascist

@2 : that's extortion

And I have to agree with Violet

This sounds to me that this religion is OBVIOUSLY created by men who want women to be their slaves so they SAY God said they should obey...

created by men?

what kind of men that can fabricate such an amazing huge accurate sys. of life..and the koraan??

visit this site-if u wish-to get what i mean..


http://www.55a.net/en/miracles/a012.php
http://www.55a.net/en/miracles/a013.php
 
DragonChan said:
Let's see. If the submarine is submerged, and I can't see it...how would I know it's there in the first place? Of course it's there, but I don't know about it. If I saw it go down, or my friend saw it go down, then I would believe them. But if some random guy walked up to me and said "Hey look! A submarine!" And pointed to some random spot in the ocean I'd probably smile and nod, and not believe them.

So yes, I suppose I need to see some sort of proof in order to believe.
But there could be a submarine....


:souka:

@ Moslema, to him it looks like it has been created for men. Men do have more rights in the Islam, you find that normal, I don't. Woman should be equil, why can the man marry more wifes. You say because the wife can be Ill, but the man could be Ill too and the man could be the one responsible for not getting childeren either.

It appears to me that the woman are just little factories for childeren in the Islam culture...
 
@moslema: Marhabaa.

YOu told me to mention some specific things in the sharia, and I have given some examples in this post: Click:

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showpost.php?p=116060&postcount=99

(especially what we would call criminal and civil "law".)

I personally think it is wrong that rituals in a religion (no matter which) should be a "law" in life. That is when I think it is against my beliefs, mainly because everyone should have a right to believe, or not to believe, and live his/her own life as he/she wishes without specific rules laid out intervening in everyday life.
And I do not think the sharia is applicable to western modern society because it goes against the concept of democracy, liberalism and free choices.

Maybe it is easier/convenient if there were specific rules for us all, however, I still believe in the FREE WILL and therefore I am Not a Muslim.

What do you think? So you think it is right? (with sharia)
Especially regarding criminal law (punishment of criminal acts done by women and men), property law, especially inheritance: women can in some Muslim countries only inherit half OR nothing - just because she was born a female. And civil law/rights. (no explanation needed - as most of forum members have mentioned it in this thread, especially by RockLee and Bossel).
Do you oppose UN's Human Rights because there is an Islamic Human Rights from 1981?
 
moslema said:
=)diseased (have a problem concrning normal life..may be sexually)

Ah that explains the confusion. 'Diseased' in English means 'dead'.

moslema said:
u know what? it is really funny!!
i ask them "what dont u like islam?
that a man can marry more than....and a woman cant!"
and not only 1 woman wants it..except"(...)
not a man likes to b a 2nd husband!

Hmm I was a bit unclear on this topic I suppose. My problem with the Islam is the apparent inequality between men and women. And it's not the fact that the woman can't marry more man that bothers me. Not at all. It's the fact that the same 'rule' does not apply to both sexes. I personally think monogamy is the proper way to live. I understand this is part of cultural, sociological and probably religious conditioning. But at least, the same applies to both men and women.

Some of the values I have for myself can be a bit conservative, but I am liberal at heart. So I don't condemn other people for leading their lives differently. So to stay with the subject of monogamy and polygamy, if people think for themselves that polygamy is a better way to live, than that is their good right. But I would like it to be a choice that both men and women can make! So I guess I am liberal and egalitarian ;)

In that way, I also think it is your right to live by your own religious beliefs and I would never say that the way you live is wrong (as long as you are happy with it heheh). That doesn't mean that I agree with all the aspects of the Islam and I like discussing the things I do not like. In fact, I wish I knew or rather, remembered more about the Islam in order to be better able to discuss things in depth, rather than just about this men/women inequality thing :)

If I have the time I might read up on it one of these days ...

Hmm one of my Turkish acquaintances once said the the Qur'an itself does not promote inequality - please correct me if I am wrong - but over the centuries people - men ;) - have given different interpretations. Must be a continuing process, a crazy few of the imams in Holland are pretty extreme ... a few months ago one of them said that each women should receive a daily beating ... now I am quite positive that this is not a common way for men to treat women, but when trusted people like imams proclaim such things, many men will believe him and execute his teachings.

OK I need to get on with work so I will leave it at this for now.

Laters all.
 
What I mean with man made is this : I believe a long time ago men thought of an idea to claim woman to do things for them, and at the same time give them less rights , so they wouldn't have the chance to choose for themselves, those men thus made some rules like THE MAN only can marry more wives for his own pleasure, and the wife has to obey, and agree with the fact that he has more woman.Because else he will use his MADE UP rules and say she doesn't obey ALAH(although the men invented the rules not ALAH).You see what I mean now? I personally don't believe in Alah or God because they don't seem righteous gods to me, they killed many of their own creations, a GOD would never do that in the first place !!! And I don't think Religion and SCIENCE should be linked to eachother, those are 2 DIFFERENT ways of explaining things !!
 
Miss_apollo7 said:
@moslema:
Do you oppose UN's Human Rights because there is an Islamic Human Rights from 1981?
I'm wondering. Islamic Human Rights. Do they have more human rights ;) ?
 
60Yen said:
But there could be a submarine....


:souka:

@ Moslema, to him it looks like it has been created for men. Men do have more rights in the Islam, you find that normal, I don't. Woman should be equil, why can the man marry more wifes. You say because the wife can be Ill, but the man could be Ill too and the man could be the one responsible for not getting childeren either.

It appears to me that the woman are just little factories for childeren in the Islam culture...

wel,men DO NOT have more rights in islam than women..

for ur kids..u buy a doll ror the girl..and a horse for the boy

i.e it depends on features and needs...and wait for the file"men rights and duties in islam"and.."women rightsand duties in islam"


when the man is ill,she asks for divorce if its her choice..

cos she cant marry 2 men for reasons i told u.

i wd b so happy to b a children factory BUT THIS IS NOT every thing.

i am on my way to b a doctor.and i guess i can do many things.other than being a mother-i am not yet-..

so plz dont say "ONLY"..
 
female inheritence(parents)..religion freedom in islam

Miss_apollo7 said:
@moslema: Marhabaa.

YOu told me to mention some specific things in the sharia, and I have given some examples in this post: Click:

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/showpost.php?p=116060&postcount=99

(especially what we would call criminal and civil "law".)

I personally think it is wrong that rituals in a religion (no matter which) should be a "law" in life. That is when I think it is against my beliefs, mainly because everyone should have a right to believe, or not to believe, and live his/her own life as he/she wishes without specific rules laid out intervening in everyday life.
And I do not think the sharia is applicable to western modern society because it goes against the concept of democracy, liberalism and free choices.

Maybe it is easier/convenient if there were specific rules for us all, however, I still believe in the FREE WILL and therefore I am Not a Muslim.

What do you think? So you think it is right? (with sharia)
Especially regarding criminal law (punishment of criminal acts done by women and men), property law, especially inheritance: women can in some Muslim countries only inherit half OR nothing - just because she was born a female. And civil law/rights. (no explanation needed - as most of forum members have mentioned it in this thread, especially by RockLee and Bossel).
Do you oppose UN's Human Rights because there is an Islamic Human Rights from 1981?
well,
1)islam guarantees ur freedom to believe or not..and ur completely free

2)i dont think that u want to live without a law..which one??

there r many laws all over the worlds..what suits u more?

democracy?

well, today all ppl living with u have ur point of view..the same.so u lead the life u wish..what about tomorrow?

there may b other ppl with other ideas,other values..other measures

will u accept their new laws when u apply democracy?

they -as one bulk in ur face-may think that women only shd learn medicine..and they cd have reasons that u do think r nonsese...but democracy means ..what ppl say!

this is what tomorrow s ppl may think .what is ur opinion?

3)inheritence law\ i am afraid that u r so correct.

a female gets ( talking about inheriting from parents)1\2 of what a male takes..why?

a woman is ALLWAYS spended upon by someone(father-brother-husband)according to her situation.
they are-for the whole life r responsible for spending upon her.

MOREOVER, she can keep money and properties(from inheriting maybe..)
and not responsible for any spending.


4) i wont tell more about poly gamy untill u answer,
being a normal female..do u want to MARRY more than 1 man? Y or NO


5)about islam human rights 1981..i know nothing.
i do know that islam sys. to organise all kinds of human relatinship was put much earlier than 1400 years ago..but yea..they may have written them..i shd ask.

Violet said:
Ah that explains the confusion. 'Diseased' in English means 'dead'.



Hmm I was a bit unclear on this topic I suppose. My problem with the Islam is the apparent inequality between men and women. And it's not the fact that the woman can't marry more man that bothers me. Not at all. It's the fact that the same 'rule' does not apply to both sexes. I personally think monogamy is the proper way to live. I understand this is part of cultural, sociological and probably religious conditioning. But at least, the same applies to both men and women.

Some of the values I have for myself can be a bit conservative, but I am liberal at heart. So I don't condemn other people for leading their lives differently. So to stay with the subject of monogamy and polygamy, if people think for themselves that polygamy is a better way to live, than that is their good right. But I would like it to be a choice that both men and women can make! So I guess I am liberal and egalitarian ;)

In that way, I also think it is your right to live by your own religious beliefs and I would never say that the way you live is wrong (as long as you are happy with it heheh). That doesn't mean that I agree with all the aspects of the Islam and I like discussing the things I do not like. In fact, I wish I knew or rather, remembered more about the Islam in order to be better able to discuss things in depth, rather than just about this men/women inequality thing :)

If I have the time I might read up on it one of these days ...

Hmm one of my Turkish acquaintances once said the the Qur'an itself does not promote inequality - please correct me if I am wrong - but over the centuries people - men ;) - have given different interpretations. Must be a continuing process, a crazy few of the imams in Holland are pretty extreme ... a few months ago one of them said that each women should receive a daily beating ... now I am quite positive that this is not a common way for men to treat women, but when trusted people like imams proclaim such things, many men will believe him and execute his teachings.

OK I need to get on with work so I will leave it at this for now.

Laters all.
1)violet,ofcourse quran didnt promote inequality.
our reference is not imams..its quran and sunnah..i can read..i can understand..an imam wd help me if i needed,

he shd be so honest and not fabricating so help ppl obey Allah and not himself.
listners shd b discussing what doesnt meat quran and sunnah directly
of what they hear or receive.

2)i guess u may read my opinion in democracy.

3)u do hate restriction..but u do need a law to live to u is the Q i asked miss apollo about this.


well rocklee,u say" Allah KILLED HIS CREATURES??"how? when?

religion is to believe in ALLAH who created every creature...

science is to know about creatures..

If the creater-the 1 i am telling u he is the creater-told u much about his creatures that nobody knows in science..wont u believe in him??
 
moslema said:
1)violet,ofcourse quran didnt promote inequality.
our reference is not imams..its quran and sunnah..i can read..i can understand..an imam wd help me if i needed,

he shd be so honest and not fabricating so help ppl obey Allah and not himself.
listners shd b discussing what doesnt meat quran and sunnah directly
of what they hear or receive.

2)i guess u may read my opinion in democracy.

3)u do hate restriction..but u do need a law to live to u is the Q i asked miss apollo about this.

I disagree when you say that imams are not a reference. Yes, there is more than one description for what an imam is, but lets stick to the description where the imam is the leader of a congregation. His followers will see the imam as a wise man, as a man who is learned and who can advise them on all life's questions. When this guy proclaims his ideas, he shall be believed. You say that you read and understand and go to the imam for guidance. Many followers though just listen to imams (no I never witnessed this in person, but my Turkish acquaintance told me about this). So if he interprets the Qur'an in his own special way and absolutely believes that he is right, which according to you is maybe not the right way you will probably disagree with him (yes?) ... but the people who follow the imam's every word might end up living according to a wrong interpretation ... ehmm ... do you understand what I mean to say?

Hmm I don't think we should mix politics and religion.

I'm not quite sure what you mean with your third quote ...
 
60Yen said:
I'm wondering. Islamic Human Rights. Do they have more human rights ;) ?

Dear 60yen:

I am not saying "they" have more human rights, I am just referring to what it is called...it is called "Islamic Human Rights from 1981" exactly, from Universal Islamic Declaration of Human rights, from reps from Egypt, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and other countries I can't remember. However, I know the "Human Rights" term is misleading for us westeners...

I do not think it is "Human Rights" seen from my point of view at all...that is my point. (read my previous posts - I am saying "their law" is not applicable to my way of thinking). :) :wavey:


@ moslema:


erm....what can I say...I just disagree with you I am afraid, but I totally respect your choices. As long as you are satisfied and happy with your lifestyle, and I am happy with mine...I was just brought up differently, like you are brought up differently.
But cut to the chase....may I politely ask your interest for Japan?? and a Japanese forum?? :) Respect to your choices in life and it is great that you are studying medicine - good choice!

PEACE!!! :)
[/SIZE]
 
Last edited:
@Moslema: A god wouldn't let his creations kill and exterminate eachother for fun.If the god u claim to be the creator would be a God, he would be a very bad one, because he likes to see how his creations murder and wipe out species he created.U can't prove with science that God exited.Science is an exact thing, based on facts that are there and can be proven.Religion is based on believing it without seeing it, you don't have an explanation, thus 2 totally different things!!
 
moslema said:
wel,men DO NOT have more rights in islam than women..

for ur kids..u buy a doll ror the girl..and a horse for the boy

i.e it depends on features and needs...and wait for the file"men rights and duties in islam"and.."women rightsand duties in islam"
Maybe there is a slight difference in what you consider "equal rights" to what most of us (probably) would consider as such. I would say, equal rights should be - well - equal. This means, men & women should have the exactly same rights.
When you say equal rights, you seem to mean the "same" rights adapted to gender. But this is exactly what is considered discrimination in the West. You cannot really expect us to accept this. Just the same you could argue that people with dark skin are naturally different from people with light skin & naturally would need different "equal" rights.

"Equal" rights according to natural differences (be it gender, race, sexual orientation or whatever) are what is called discrimination.
 
Let me just say, that I am a Muslim man originally from Bosnia. I'm very proud of my religion and I believe it is truly a religion of peace, mercy, humility and obedience to God. You guys can believe in what you want. To you your way, to me mine.
BTW, these kinds of threads are cool. Some of you seem threatened by a thread like this, saying "enough already." This is America(?) so don't we have freedom of speech to say what we want? As you have freedom of speech to ignore this thread instead of replying to it and adding nothing to it.

Also, let me say that a lot of women have converted to Islam, and are still doing so. I don't understand that, if you guys say islam is oppressive towards women. If that is the case, then why do so many women convert to Islam? Explain that to me. Are ALL of them misinformed or hypnotized?
If you guys have any questions regarding gender roles in Islam, I suggest you check out www.whyislam.org .That site should answer any questions you have regarding human rights, women's issues,etc.
God bless.
 
Miss_apollo7 said:

Dear 60yen:

I am not saying "they" have more human rights, I am just referring to what it is called...it is called "Islamic Human Rights from 1981" exactly, from Universal Islamic Declaration of Human rights, from reps from Egypt, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and other countries I can't remember. However, I know the "Human Rights" term is misleading for us westeners...

I do not think it is "Human Rights" seen from my point of view at all...that is my point. (read my previous posts - I am saying "their law" is not applicable to my way of thinking). :) :wavey:
:) It was more of a joke. I heared about these guys before, they gave out Islamophobic Awards (George Bush, Ariel Sharon got them and more). Which is redicilous, because criticizing is okay, but be beware of your own mistakes as well. Because in that way Bin Laden could be Christianophobic.
 
moslema said:
shariaa..old fashioned...how????

I guess you can't understand as you have never experienced anyting else. The concept of "old fashioned" only means something in comparison to how one particular society has evolved. Muslim societies haven't reached the same level of freedom, free thinking, equality and humanity as most "developed countries". As a result, the sharia law is not old-fashioned for Muslim, but actual.

and all good women go to heaven and get beauty more than virgins there

about virgins..u r nt so accurate.i will read more in this to correct ur words.

Anyway, what's the point for a woman to be beautiful if she doesn't need to attract men to have children (can they make children in heaven ?), and what's the point for men to have 78 or so virgins if they stay there for the eternity, as they will get bored after a few years, or a few hundred years, or a few thousands years. Life in heaven must be utterly boring. Can people create new products like computers, mobile phones, dvd players, etc. or do they have to live always in the same way since human were created by god ?
Is there any opportunity for active and ambitious people to realize themselves by founding companies, publishing books, composing music or building a house ? If nothing of this exist in heaven, how do people spend their time except for men having sex with virgins ? Is sex the only thing a Muslim can wish for ? Is that why Muslim countries are so backward ?

=) most important reason is that she wdnt b so sure about each babies father.

But don't you have DNA tests or what ? If you were to trust 100% the hormones and instincts of 100% of the (married) women on earth, then you'd be as naive as thinking all men can be satisfied with one woman for all their life. In the UK, it was estimated that 5% of children are born from another father than the husband/partner (see article). So marriage does not solve any problem, and humans are the same all over the world regarding sex. So if I were you I'd check if your father really is your father. I only trust science and reason. How many thousands of millions of Muslims fathers do you think have been cheated into believing that their religion made them safe from adultery ? It is possibe to make a baby in just a few minutes... and having 3 wives make it even more difficult to chekc what they do all day long.

60Yen said:
I'm wondering. Islamic Human Rights. Do they have more human rights ;) ?

No less, that is why they needed to make a different charter from the rest of the world, so as to protect a lifestyle dictated by the Koran which was against "universla human rights" as seen by the West.

RockLee said:
@Moslema: A god wouldn't let his creations kill and exterminate eachother for fun.If the god u claim to be the creator would be a God, he would be a very bad one, because he likes to see how his creations murder and wipe out species he created.

Exactly, RockLee. If god exists, it must be very stupid for the management he made (or the imperection in its "art", its "original creation"). I mean, to see how humans make wars, kill, rape and torture each others, god must either be extremely sadistic or extremely incapable.

@Moslema

You will have realised that I used "it" talking about god. Christians and Muslims call god "He", as if "he" were a man. To be "male", god would have to be a "sexual life being" (as you know, cells, bacterias, etc do not have a sex, as they reproduce by dividing themselves in two). There was a time on earth when sexual life beings didn't exist, although life already existed. Sexual reproduction was just an evolution in the way of reproduction, so that the male and female of one species could have different attributes. For human, males are stronger, more logical, with better 3 dimensional imagination and better solultion finding abilities. Women are more senitive, better aware of their environment and people's feelings, better at languages, communication, etc. So if god was male, he would have all the attributes of the male (including deffects), and lack those of the females. He would also be attracted to female of his own species (is there any other gods ?), and would be just a mere life being. A life being can die, otherwise it wouldn't be called "life being". It also need to be born and develop.

Considering all this, can you sincerely say that god must be male ? Do you also think that god looks like a human ? Does god have the same personality traits as humans, such as creativity, sociablity, individualism, kindness, cruelty, prudence, passion, reserve, etc. ? What about feelings (anger, joy, pain, fear, jealousy, hatred, love, shyness, arrogance, etc.) ?
Please think very well before answering (because god will judge waht you say about him).

Yamatoblue said:
Also, let me say that a lot of women have converted to Islam, and are still doing so. I don't understand that, if you guys say islam is oppressive towards women. If that is the case, then why do so many women convert to Islam? Explain that to me. Are ALL of them misinformed or hypnotized?

I would certainly never think that somethind if "good" or "true" because some (even thousands, or millions) people do it. There are so many stupid, ignorant and undereducated people on earth that I would even go as far as to say that the majority (of them) is, more often than not, wrong. So you explanation only confirms that some women are ignorant or misinformed or credulous enough to believe that they will have a better life (otherwise why convert ?) by adopting Islam.

But there are millions of people in the so-called free and developed countries (USA, Europe, etc.) who still believe in Christianity, Islam or whatever because they think it will improve their life. Isn't that the most eloquent example of human ignorance and stupidity, when we see how governments use and have always used these weaknesses to wage wars for their own profits ?

At least the good Christian soldiers and goof Muslim believers kill each other in Iraq or Afghanisthan thinking they will go to heaven and they died for their cause. How touching. If only they could not extend their problems to other who don't care about their beliefs !
 
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