Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

[PaleoRevenge]

Have you even read anything about this presentation? Dacians and Thracians are exclusively rejected even by Matzinger. It's so desperate that you people are still even after all that has been published still trying to displace Albanians outside the western Balkans. After all of this you still try to ignore everything and keep spreading fake and fringe theories.

Matzinger claims modern Alb has no Dacian-Thracian influence? Highly doubt it, you must be talking in the context of Messapic, which is true, but I didn't say that, there's your shifty character again.

fringe theories

Haha, there is your low IQ trying to bail itself out. Call the FBI. Tell them the anthro villagers are upset.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

In the E-V13, J-L283 and Albanian origins thread, this same crowd has claimed that 1. Albanian E-V13 also comes from Slavs 2. E-V13 in Albanians comes from Vlachs 3. J-L283 is Celtic (Trojet can confirm many cases where one of them will try to insinuate a Celtic connection) 3. J-L283 is not Illyrian, it's something else 4. Albanians have high Slavic admixture and hundreds of other weekly cases where someone will try again and again to attack Albanians, to make weird claims about their main haplogroups, to claim that Albanians have high Slavic admixture. All of these matters have been answered and clarified by just a few people against all constant anti-Albanian attacks. They defended Cetina as Illyrian (credits to Trojet who first said it years ago) when some other people here were siding with others who simply didn't want Cetina to be Illyrian because they didn't J-L283 to be present in a major archaeological culture. If somebody here thinks that such people didn't want Cetina to be J-L283 because they care about the ethnogenesis of Illyrians, you simply can't understand what is happening around you.

You're a loony, get your emotions in check.

They are the same people who some other Albanians (?) are attacking here daily just because they don't call their haplogroup the greatest that has ever existed or because they don't subscribe to the more and more ludicrous idea that tries to disconnect Albanians from Illyrians. Some people here prefer to just attack other Albanians simply out of spite because they stand up to anti-Albanian propaganda, while they themselves have never done a single thing even when they were in anthrogenica and weren't banned there.

No one is attacking you, or even cares to talk to you. You and your village comes here to yell at people and have their weekly meltdowns. Go back to your anthro echo chamber and high five each other into eternity, no one will care.

What exactly does the crowd here think that they're doing? They're mostly parroting fringe theories, anti-Albanian propaganda (many anti-Albanian nationalists are very happy when they read Johane Derite, Paleo-Revenge and the "neo-Illyrian" (lol) ) and attacking Albanians who stand up to BS about us.
Do you guys even understand what 99% of Albanians would have to say about your behavior?

It is not anti-Albanian not to be low IQ, vulgar and asocial. If Albanians are supposed to be dumb, asocial and vulgar, state it so publicly otherwise you're the anti-Albanian, the bad image.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

How do you explain E-V13 among Albanians? Go ahead, but don't put me theories like broder who is the typical guy who sits on the corner of the couch and waits with a beer on his hand until all the work is done, when it's done he yells i told you so, i was right.

Give at least an explanation, no matter even if you are wrong or right.

You are asking an anti-Albanian question with fringe extremists undertones. Careful.

 

[kl1ki]

Matzinger claims modern Alb has no Dacian-Thracian influence? Highly doubt it, you must be talking in the context of Messapic, which is true, but I didn't say that, there's your shifty character again.



Haha, there is your low IQ trying to bail itself out. Call the FBI. Tell them the anthro villagers are upset.

Matzinger claims that Albanian is unrelated to Daco-Thracian. What it is that you don't want to accept?

Hawk you'll get a full reply.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

Matzinger claims that Albanian is unrelated to Daco-Thracian. What it is that you don't want to accept?

Hawk you'll get a full reply.

Where does he say Albanian was never under Daco-Thracian influence? Did you even comprehend what I wrote before you went into a meltdown?

 

[kl1ki]

Where does he say Albanian was never under Daco-Thracian influence? Did you even comprehend what I wrote before you went into a meltdown?

Where does he say Albanian was never under Daco-Thracian influence? Did you even comprehend what I wrote before you went into a meltdown?

Do you understand that E-V13 can't be "Daco-Thracian influence" in what he's saying or do you just want E-V13 to be Daco-Thracian? Do you even realize that what he's saying under certain circumstances makes early E-V13 Proto-Albanian? See the big difference between the anthro-crowd and what is happening here is that many there always insisted that there has to be at least a core group of R-Z2103/R-PF7562/E-V13/J-L283 (in no particular order) clades which has to be Proto-Albanian.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

The Albanian tribe of Lala:

Myzeqe was historically inhabited by the Lalë, a local Albanian tribe .The medieval Muzaka family was related to this tribe as indicated by the name of its progenitor, Lal Muzhaqi.^[6] In the Ottoman period, a number of Albanian settlements in the plain of Myzeqe took place, notably from neighbouring Toskëria and Labëria. Starting from the late 18th century, a small group of Aromanians from the region of Korçë settled in the region as well. In the first half of the 20th century, refugees from Kosovo and the Sandzak also came in the region after it was annexed by Serbia and Montenegro and then included in Yugoslavia.
These waves of settlement mark Myzeqe as the area where all Albanian subgroups: Gheg, Tosk, and Lab populations meet.^[3] Most inhabitants are Albanians,^[10] but there are Vlachs established mainly in Divjake town, and some of the Fier villages and some Romani people, as well as the linguistically assimilated Bosniaks of Libofsha.^[11] All people from the region as called Myzeqarë ("People from Myzeqe") which is widely used on a geographical point of view.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myzeqe#Population

The people of Myzeqe are also jokingly called laluc.

The names looks similar to the east Paeonian tribe Laeaeans, I have no knowledge of ancient Greek , but google translate sound pronunciation is fairly close to lailei.
https://translate.google.com/?hl=en&tab=wT&sl=auto&tl=sq&text=Λαιαῖοι&op=translate

Has this ever been examined as a possible link?

The Laeaeans (/liːˈiːənz/; Ancient Greek: Λαιαῖοι) were a Paeonian tribe who in the 4th century BC lived adjacent to the Agrianes, another Paeonian tribe, along the upper course of the Strymon river, at the western edge of Thrace. They were not incorporated into the Odrysian state or the Paeonian state, remaining an independent tribe outside the borders of those kingdoms. According to Thucydides, the Laeaeans, along with the Agrianes, the Thracian Dii, and other tribes, joined Sitalkes in his unsuccessful campaign against Perdiccas II of Macedon.^[1] The coins issued by the Laeaeans are judged to be of crude workmanship, and seem to be imitations of finer minted coins issued by other neighboring Paeonian tribes such as the Derrones. A typical coin bears the inscription LAIAI (Laeaeans) on the obverse, and a Pegasus in a double linear square on the reverse. It is unclear whether or not the Laeaeans were conquered by Philip II or Alexander the Great, although their neighbors are recorded by historians such as Arrian as client kings.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laeaeans

 

[PaleoRevenge]

Do you understand that E-V13 can't be "Daco-Thracian influence" in what he's saying or do you just want E-V13 to be Daco-Thracian? Do you even realize that what he's saying under certain circumstances makes early E-V13 Proto-Albanian? See the big difference between the anthro-crowd and what is happening here is that many there always insisted that there has to be at least a core group of R-Z2103/R-PF7562/E-V13/J-L283 (in no particular order) clades which has to be Proto-Albanian.

You are delusional.

Do you even realize

I understand your fantasies, I don't have to realize anything, it's basic and linear.

what is happening here is that many there always insisted that there has to be at least a core group of R-Z2103/R-PF7562/E-V13/J-L283 (in no particular order) clades which has to be Proto-Albanian.

You can insist whatever you like, ancient samples are clear. North of Greece, three main groups/zones that occupied the Balkans in the IA, are J2b to the west, R-Z2103 center and E-V13 east and center.

 

[kl1ki]

The Albanian tribe of Lala:



The people of Myzeqe are also jokingly called laluc.

The names looks similar to the east Paeonian tribe Laeaeans, I have no knowledge of ancient Greek , but google translate sound pronunciation is fairly close to lalei.
https://translate.google.com/?hl=en&tab=wT&sl=auto&tl=sq&text=Λαιαῖοι&op=translate

Has this ever been examined as a possible link?

Lala can't be derived from anything related to "Laiaioi". Another thing that you don't get is that "Laiaioi" means 1) those who live on the left side in Greek https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/λαιός so either this name is a Greek name for them, or Paeonians had adopted the Greek word or originally had the same word for "left" as Greeks or 2)it's the name of a plant in ancient Greek, but in this case Laiaioi could mask a Lai(w)aioi form.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

Lala can't be derived from anything related to "Laiaioi". Another thing that you don't get is that "Laiaioi" means 1) those who live on the left side in Greek https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/λαιός so either this name is a Greek name for them, or Paeonians had adopted the Greek word or originally had the same word for "left" as Greeks or 2)it's the name of a plant in ancient Greek, but in this case Laiaioi could mask a Lai(w)aioi form.

That's your take.

 

[kl1ki]

You are delusional.



I understand your fantasies, I don't have to realize anything, it's basic and linear.



You can insist whatever you like, ancient samples are clear. North of Greece, three main groups/zones that occupied the Balkans in the IA, are J2b to the west, R-Z2103 center and E-V13 east and center.

R-Z2103>CTS1450 is found in IA Cinamak and R-M269 (likely R-PF7562) is found EBA Cinamak. There's another R-M269 which hasn't been further determined in Cinamak. There is big R-M269 diversity. R-Z2103 is found in Vucedol. So why are you lying about R-Z2103 not existing in the western Balkans?

 

[PaleoRevenge]

Another settlement in Bulgaria: Jinchovtsi

One of the legends about the foundation of the village, which is also known in Reyanovtsi and Bohova , is that three brothers - Rhea, Boya and Gia (sons of the local boyar Strezimir from the 11th century, voivode of Tsar Samuil) are the founders of the three villages. ^[2]



At about 4 km at the foot of Rui Mountain there are traces of ore shafts, remains of walls, coins and ancient objects have been found. An Ottoman cobblestone was discovered 1 km south of the village, and to the right of it - remains of a Roman road, probably part of the Via Adriatic, which connected Sredets with the White Sea and the Adriatic. In the area of ​​Tsrvulya, there are walls, tiles, etc., which indicate that there was an old settlement in this place, abandoned by the population after the passage of the crusaders from the last crusade. ^[2]



The name of Djinchovtsi appears in Turkish documents from 1576 as Djindjovca . ^{[3] [4]} Variants of the name are also Chichovtsi, Chinchovtsi, Jinchofche. In a register from the middle of the 16th century , it is mentioned that the village of Jinchofche had 1 household, and the income from it amounted to 3817 aktes. ^[5]


https://bg-m-wikipedia-org.translate.goog/wiki/%D0%94%D0%B6%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%87%D0%BE%D0%B2%D1%86%D0%B8?_x_tr_sl=bg&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc

The name rings bell of the early Albanian name Gjin. It does seem a bit off on the legend, but here is the recollection of the same story from the other "brotherly" villages.

A local legend connects the name of the village with that of Bohyan (also Boya or Bohya), who is said to be the son of the voivode Strezimir from the 11th century, who lived at the time of the last resistance of the Bulgarian state led by Tsar Samuil against Byzantium. Stresimir's brother was Slishan. Besides Bohian, Stresimir also had other sons - Kostrosh (or Kostadin), Giya (or Jiyan) and Reyan

https://bg-m-wikipedia-org.translat...tr_sl=bg&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc

A local legend, told not only here, but also in several neighboring villages, connects the origin of the village and its surrounding villages with the sons of the boyar Srezimir, the voivode of Tsar Samuil. Srezimir had several sons - Reya (Reyan), Giya (Jian) ​​and Boya (Bohian, Bohya), who founded the settlements in question. Reyan settled in the "Dupkina koria" area. Here is what Yevtim Spaskov, born in 1896, head teacher at the Jinchov school, wrote to the Sofia district inspector on April 1, 1926:"In the old days, there were three brothers - Raya, Boya and Gina, who lived in the neighboring village of Reyanovtsi. When their family grew, they separated and went to three countries. The oldest Raya stayed in the old house and the current village of Reyanovtsi was created there. The second Boya went to the folds, that is, where the sheep were raised, and founded the present village of Bohova. And the third, the youngest Jina, came to the other pens, where only goats were raised, and founded a village under the name of Jinchovtsi, and from then until now the village bears this name.

https://bg-m-wikipedia-org.translat...tr_sl=bg&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc

This is a folk legend, but interesting nevertheless that Djindjovca can be tied to a possible historical founder named Gina from 11th century.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

R-Z2103>CTS1450 is found in IA Cinamak and R-M269 (likely R-PF7562) is found EBA Cinamak. There's another R-M269 which hasn't been further determined in Cinamak. There is big R-M269 diversity. R-Z2103 is found in Vucedol. So why are you lying about R-Z2103 not existing in the western Balkans?

False menu argument again. Learn geography, point Cinamak on a map, it's right next to Kosovo and North Macedonia.

R-Z2103 is found in Vucedol.

Did you mean to say one? One R-Z2103 in Croatia, out of what? Compared to like 30 J2bs in BA and IA Croatia? Do you need a calculator?

 

[PaleoRevenge]

A similar example on the Macedonian side: Ginovtsi

The village of Ginovci has always been inhabited exclusively by Macedonians of the Orthodox Christian faith. The families living in Ginovci are: Korolejci , Baba-Stojankinci , Grgurci , Shklinci .

According to Branislav Rusić 's research in 1953, the genders in the village are:

• Oldest settlers: Todosovci (3 k.), Shklinci (3 k.), Qazinci (1 k.), Rajchilovci (3 k.), Kitarci (1 k.), Lapovci (1 k.), Korolejci (3 k. ), Barakovci (4 k.), Milchinci (6 k.), Denchinci (2 k.), Buchkinci (1 k.), Petrovci (2 k.), Docchinci (1 k.), Marinkovci (1 k.) , Manavci (4 k.), Gurchinci (3 k.), Velkovci (2 k.), Tirkovci (1 k.) and Shuka (1 k.) , three brothers immigrated from somewhere in Serbia . They founded three villages. Gina founded Ginovtsi, Milutin founded Milutince , and Ljuba founded Ljubintsi . The genera listed are from Gina.
• Of unknown origin: Jušmerci (1 k.), Sheljavci (1 k.), Pavunovci or Kojkarci (2 k.), Solaci (3 k.) and Gjelinci (1 k.)
• Settlers: Grgurci (5 k.) immigrated around 1850 from the village of Bushtranje near Vranje in Serbia ; Ziljkovci (1 village) settled around 1860 from the village of Otoshnica ; Shopci (3 k.) were settled around 1865 from the village of Meteževo ; Golovotci (3 k.) were settled around 1875 from the village of Otoshnica ; Sulimarci (1 village) moved in 1924 from the village of Milutince . ^[7]

https://mk-m-wikipedia-org.translat...tr_sl=mk&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=sc

 

[PaleoRevenge]

In the Messapic name "Balakrahiaihi" we have an interesting parallel to Alexander the Great's bodygaurd and general "Balakrus", the son of Nikanor.

This explains this

If we have to force the name Balakrus an Albanian explanation, than we have to settle for something along the lines of scratchy/crusty forehead. Which looks weird but is in line with the funky medieval names of the Arberesh and Arvanites such as Buzezezi, Symiza, etc... The format also follows Albanian name structure.

 

[Illyria]

False menu argument again. Learn geography, point Cinamak on a map, it's right next to Kosovo and North Macedonia.

Have you seen a map? Do you know what West means? It's clearly in the Western Balkans LOL. IN ALBANIA. Is Albania, Central, or East to you? If so, go back to school. Can't believe you said that with your chest, reminds me of when you said Kukes was Slavic 300 years ago.

Did you mean to say one? One R-Z2103 in Croatia, out of what? Compared to like 30 J2bs in BA and IA Croatia? Do you need a calculator?

Ok? There is ancient R-Z2103 in Italy too, next to J2b2s. You said there was no R-Z2103 in the Western Balkans, there is, we see it in Italy too, how much more West do you need it? Lol. Don't trip over yourself when you're wrong. It's ok to be wrong. R-Z2103 isn't exclusive to the Central Balkans, neither is J2b2 exclusive to the West. That's just where they are found more frequently. We have a 3900 year old J2b2 sample in Northern Serbia, later we have J2b2 in Eastern Serbia, Dardania, later we have Avar J2b2/E-V13 next to each other in Hungary. The Neo-Illyrians like to paint J2b2 as a purely coastal people, along a thin line in the Western Balkans, lol. Even the Serbian study showed lots of J2b2 in Serbia in the BA. They don't like the fact that Dardanians are called Illyrian either. So odd, all these mental gymnastics, while calling other people low IQ, even cursing them, spewing vile insults. Disgusting truly.

 

[Southpaw]

Don’t remember the thread now where but rafc suggested it first, and then he jumped in and fully supported his opinion.

Yeah, big deal, nobody cares, no one holds a grudge, i highly doubt you cared. Your issue with Riverman stands on his E-V13 theory origin. It doesn't fit your narrative. Be honest and explicit on this.

 

[Johane Derite]

If we have to force the name Balakrus an Albanian explanation, than we have to settle for something along the lines of scratchy/crusty forehead. Which looks weird but is in line with the funky medieval names of the Arberesh and Arvanites such as Buzezezi, Symiza, etc... The format also follows Albanian name structure.

The -us in balakrus is a suffix, in the same way that the -iaihi is in balakriaihi. Its not possible to etymologise it as a full stem

 

[Olti27]

Is Matzinger saying that Messapians had to take the plane from Sofia to Brindisi because Illyrian border police wouldn't let them pass.

I have to revise this theory, they din't take the plane.
What happened was that during the political election in Illyria the right wing party of Hunters-Gatherers lost to the liberal left party of Farmer-Herders.
The new new government then welcomed this Messapian(proto-albanian) illegal immigrants to work in the fields of Illyria and were integrated in the society. Later during the economic crisis of the bronze collapse there was a migration to Italy for new opportunities where the European Union of S.P.Q.R. was forming.

 

[Johane Derite]

Hackstein more or less agrees thereis some sort of balkan IE, and casually references that proto-Albanians superseded the Illyrians (hence not Illyrian) after the 9th Century Bc. He references lipper and matzinger but nowhere in there book did i see a claim by them that proto-Albanian went to albania in the pre roman period, since his entire arguments in that book show that durres is post roman, shkodra is post roman, etc. I think here Hackstein has simply confused or misread something.
Hilariously, Excine and co are trying to frame these two presenters saying Albanian is not Illyrian as a "win". The very definition of a cope is not being able to accept a loss and trying to frame it as intended or desired. How fkn sad.

Here are the pages from the book that he cites for this absurd claim (pages 164 and 184) and it becomes clear Hackstein has totally just misread and confused a basic argument.

On page 164 Matzinger lays out that Albanians treatment of toponyms like Shkoder shows that it was in a late proto-albanian phase, which can date at the earliest to the 100s BC (Post roman era of balkans).

On page 184 the 9th century bc is mentioned in context of Glasinac-Mati developing, and mentions nothing of proto-Albanians migrating after the 9th century BC.

So its clear the guy mixed up the mention of 9th century BC with the 2nd Century BC mentioned on pg 164 as the date after which proto-Albanian can have entered the Albanian regions and absorbed Illyrian toponyms like
Shkoder.

Some on anthrogenica reading into Hacksteins total misunderstanding as some intentional belief of matzingers is absurd.