Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

[Dibran]

Dardha (Kamenica) should also have a high % of J2b-L283 also communities in the Prishtina Valley. I am hoping East and Central Kosovo might get more representation in the future.

A few friends of mine from Lipjan turned out E-V13.

I'm sponsoring a small batch for parts between Prizren and Ferizaj, Ferizaj and Kacanik and Rahovec region, including Verrin and a few more in Opoje. But it's part of a large wider spread batch covering parts of Albania and Macedonia as well. so it will take me a couple years to complete funding. Unless some of these rich Albanians want to help. Lol

 

[Fustan]

Bosnians that are E-V13, could be from E-V13 Illyrians.

Does anyone have the statistics on Bosnians and Croatians (not Serbs because afaik they don't have any J2-L283 really)? I specifically wonder how much J2-L283 and E-V13 they have. I think Croats had something like 3.5% J2-L283 which is really tiny.

 

[Dibran]

Delete. Mistake post

 

[mount123]

I too think we will find E-V13 in Illyrians. E-V13 is widespread today in both the West and East Balkans, and can't be from Thracians only. Croatians, Austrians, Bosnians that are E-V13, could be from E-V13 Illyrians. South-Central Balkans was a melting pot, on the fringes of the Illyrian and Thracian worlds, so I expect both J2b2 and E-V13 to be found together there

Looks more like most of E1b-V13 in them was picked up in the East Pannonian Plain/ Carpathians.

 

[mount123]

I didn't know he used the Kosovan label. Kind of cringe lol.
What does Neo-Illyrian even mean?

I am from Kosovo that is my nationality I don't own an Albanian passport so what exactly is cringe about it? You can also address your thoughts about me directly at me.

Neo means new.

 

[mount123]

A few friends of mine from Lipjan turned out E-V13.
I'm sponsoring a small batch for parts between Prizren and Ferizaj, Ferizaj and Kacanik and Rahovec region, including Verrin and a few more in Opoje. But it's part of a large wider spread batch covering parts of Albania and Macedonia as well. so it will take me a couple years to complete funding. Unless some of these rich Albanians want to help. Lol

Nice. Dardha is quite important to me since that is where my mothers Family stems from. I might as well just randomly pick people from our neighborhood some time and test them myself. I am actually saving up for this

 

[kl1ki]

& How exactly are you a new illyrian? Did you resurrect or something? What MMOrpg game have you been playing?

 

[Dibran]

I am from Kosovo that is my nationality I don't own an Albanian passport so what exactly is cringe about it? You can also address your thoughts about me directly at me.
Neo means new.

It's cringe because it's made up. You're Albanian and your regional/geographic identity is Kosovar. Same as a Malesor or Dibran or w.e is still Albanian.

That flag and title is not really what everyone in Kosove bled for. It's basically what the European powers placed upon the people. Since they won't allow it to be joined with Albania or put the same flag.

At least add a double headed eagle in the center of the countries outline. That would be cool.
A nice FU to Serbija. Lol

 

[mount123]

edit: irrelevant to the thread's topic

 

[Illyria]

& How exactly are you a new illyrian? Did you resurrect or something? What MMOrpg game have you been playing?

This cracked me up lmao

 

[Southpaw]

Seems you are right.



Viminacium had overwhelming E-V13 and no L283 from what I see.
I got it mixed with Timacum Minus which had an even 3-3 split.

I wonder if we can deduce anything from this? Not sure about the context of the two settlements but surely this can give insight into where E-V13 was abudnant, and where and when L283 and E-V13 met in even share as a middle ground?

Edit: Even more interestingly Timacum Minus reflects modern Albanian genetics quite well 3-3-2 is roughly similar to todays Albanian YDNA of V13-L283-Z2103...

They are either Dardanians or Dalmatians. Or mixed Dardanian/Dalmatian according to grave classification.

 

[Southpaw]

My God. It all makes sense now. Hawk is from Presheva, Johane Derite's ancestors were from today's Serbia, just north of Kosovo. Of course they're pushing Daco-Thracian theory so hard and denying Illyrian-Albanian cognates lol. They want the Proto-Albanian homeland to be close to their own origins, near the Channeled Ware finds, and not in Albania or the Western Balkans

I remember just weeks ago, Hawk said something like, Thracians didn't have any interest in the poor Adriatic, and preferred the rich Aegean, and that E-V13 outnumbers J2b2 and R1b in Albanians because the Channeled Ware people were far more superior than the weaker Glasinac Mati people lmfao. I guess people gotta cope some how, but I don't know why they both jump to conclusions based on insecurity. There are many reasons that could explain why E-V13 is most common, but he likes that one best. Carlton Coon noted that Albanians above the Drin river were the tallest, strongest, most athletic, wide-shouldered and wide-jawed of all Albanians, Malsi E Madhe & Kukes are both 45%+ J2b2 lol. How could it be! When they are mixed with these weak Glasinac Mati Illyrians! We still have that upcoming paper that will make many clown theories fall flat

Every other day, one of them has to quote something about Channeled Ware or a Thracian-Albanian cognate, and say "It seems likely Proto-Albanian derived from Channeled Ware people who migrated into Albania" lol, Matzinger doesn't believe we are Thracian either, but any time an Illyrian-Albanian cognate is mentioned, Johane Derite is quick to quote him If Matzinger is such a genius, why are you pushing the Bessi-Phygrian theory if even he doesn't believe it lol. We must be from some other unattested ghost shepherding population that was Christianized that went into Albania, and no one noticed or recorded it lol.

King of missinterpretation and shifting words.

My ultimate origin is North Albania/Dukagjin where Berisha was living anyway.

I said Danubian Urnfielders didn't have so much of interest to conquer Adriatic region because they were more attracted by the riches of Mycenae and Hittite Empire(two superpowers of their time along with Egypt) which reflects more their Central-Eastern Balkan pathway in comparison with poorer Adriatic region which is true, they wanted to plunder rich regions, they were not so much of expanding territory, during Late Bronze Age they were better armored than Proto-Illyrians or whatever you want to call West-Adriatic settlers. I didn't said that's the reason it's so high among Albanians lol because E-V13 Albanians would be so different and distant in so many ways from their supposed Channeled-Ware ancestors.

And, i never said Daco-Thracian, i said Channeled-Ware which is another specific term for one of the Danubian Urnfield groups. And i said that if Matzinger is right, and the chances are that he is because he is not alone on his interpretations then Albanian is a Western Channeled-Ware derived lineage, oh yeah. Well, you guys just want to get what suits you, how many times did i write in my posts about fitting E-V13 among Illyrians, like i said before probably candidates for E-V13 among Illyrians are Enchelei, Dardanii, Pirusti, Taulanti and the cultural simbyosis of Illyrians came when Glasinac-Mat (more Northern Illyrians) and Trebeniste Culture (more Southern Illyrians) mixed.

You just start from a premise which you don't care whether is true or false and base all your worldview from that premise.

 

[Southpaw]

TBH I vibe with what I read from Brumzi. No idea why he gets so much hate. Have not seen any supremacy stuff either from him...
Sure, he expects E-V13 in Western Balkans and that's controversial in the genetic fora right now, but really I don't think he deserves all the hate he gets. I have not kept up will all his posts though, so maybe I am missing something.

He doesn't, he just pretends. He goes on and on like a broken record trying to refuse basic logic thinking because he is irritated by the fact E-V13 might have to do with Proto-Thracians, probably he expected a scenario where E-V13 in Balkans is mostly to do with Middle Age expansion of Albanians and Vlachs all over Balkans and Roman Empire spread all over Europe, and during ancient times they were some small Neolithic descended people without any identity. This is a tactical/manipulating propaganda to scope down the real influence.

He goes on saying E-V13 in Bulgaria is because of Albanian/Vlach settlers during Middle Age, the same thing he does for E-V13 in Greece or any place. I wonder how come Vlachs contribute E-V13 when they have less than the Greeks, or Arvanites where they have at equal percentage or even less in case of Peloponessians.

That's something which every decent E-V13 member has spotted on him, but people were tricked on thinking he is doing because all Albanian-fitting.

 

[mount123]

He doesn't, he just pretends. He goes on and on like a broken record trying to refuse basic logic thinking because he is irritated by the fact E-V13 might have to do with Proto-Thracians, probably he expected a scenario where E-V13 in Balkans is mostly to do with Middle Age expansion of Albanians and Vlachs all over Balkans and Roman Empire spread all over Europe, and during ancient times they were some small Neolithic descended people without any identity. This is a tactical/manipulating propaganda to scope down the real influence.

He goes on saying E-V13 in Bulgaria is because of Albanian/Vlach settlers during Middle Age, the same thing he does for E-V13 in Greece or any place. I wonder how come Vlachs contribute E-V13 when they have less than the Greeks, or Arvanites where they have at equal percentage or even less in case of Peloponessians.

That's something which every decent E-V13 member has spotted on him, but people were tricked on thinking he is doing because all Albanian-fitting.

He just recently claimed Thracians were a mix of mainly R1b (he did not name the exact subclade) and J2a (subclade?) and G2a (subclade?).

 

[Southpaw]

He just recently claimed Thracians were a mix of mainly R1b (he did not name the exact subclade) and J2a (subclade?) and G2a (subclade?).

I don't have anything against it if facts prove it.

But, chances are too slim for that scenario considering how widespread is E-V13 and ancient samples just keep showing it. You cannot jump from places to places like he proposes, there always must be a chronology, just read how Riverman proposes (he is not right all the time but for most of the time i agree with him), well Riverman as far as i know is graduated on archaeology and i realized he grasps things faster than us.

Likewise, J2b2-L283 is being found in Illyrian regions and according to Albanian archeologists and Yugoslav the same people were spread down to South Albania practicing the same burial rite of the specific inhumation on tumuli and specific tumuli burials. Now, there are exceptions of course like Enchelei practicing cremation on a pyre underneath having low tumuli and Dardanians being bi-ritual, a potential people where i see E-V13 and J2b2-L283 to meet.

He also said that E-V13 is very low in Western Anatolia where Thracians settled, but he never mentions that J2b2-L283 is low in Croatia/Slovenia as well whereas we see dozens of them in aDNA.

I too expected R1b-Z2103 or some other R1b-L51 to be the main carriers, but i totally underestimated how dynamic people are, it's just that in ancient Balkans there were more different lineages dominating other than R1b-Z2103/R1b-L51.

 

[mount123]

I don't have anything against it if facts prove it.

But, chances are too slim for that scenario considering how widespread is E-V13 and ancient samples just keep showing it. You cannot jump from places to places like he proposes, there always must be a chronology, just read how Riverman proposes (he is not right all the time but for most of the time i agree with him), well Riverman as far as i know is graduated on archaeology and i realized he grasps things faster than us.

Likewise, J2b2-L283 is being found in Illyrian regions and according to Albanian archeologists and Yugoslav the same people were spread down to South Albania practicing the same burial rite of the specific inhumation on tumuli and specific tumuli burials. Now, there are exceptions of course like Enchelei practicing cremation on a pyre underneath having low tumuli and Dardanians being bi-ritual, a potential people where i see E-V13 and J2b2-L283 to meet.

He also said that E-V13 is very low in Western Anatolia where Thracians settled, but he never mentions that J2b2-L283 is low in Croatia/Slovenia as well whereas we see dozens of them in aDNA.

I too expected R1b-Z2103 or some other R1b-L51 to be the main carriers, but i totally underestimated how dynamic people are, it's just that in ancient Balkans there were more different lineages dominating other than R1b-Z2103/R1b-L51.

Neither do I but as you said the chances are very slim. That is the whole essence of his one dimensional view and many others'. Archeological credentials are most of the time harbingers of what is to be expected from aDNA in the same context. It is called archaeogenetics for a reason. We have been proven many times that near radical replacements of former populations were definitely a thing in human history but somehow people still use solely modern distributions in order to fit their at home made narrative.

 

[Riverman]

He just recently claimed Thracians were a mix of mainly R1b (he did not name the exact subclade) and J2a (subclade?) and G2a (subclade?).

He has to, not because he can connect these haplogroups with any sort of cultural formation of importance for Thracians, but because he just thinks/wants that Thracians being present in the region before E-V13 and claims that E-V13 had nothing to do with the Thracians. Since he now realised that Channelled Ware and E-V13 might have something in common and he could be proven wrong with what he said before, he now shifts to: Well, Channelled Ware together with other Pannonian and Northern-Central Balkan groups (like Brnjica and Encrusted Pottery) might have brought E-V13, but they were no Thracian speakers but something else which was just soaked up by the locals.

And these locals, before the transitional period, seem to have been dominated by R-Z2103, I2a and G2a. Though "local" is a difficult thing, because depending on exact subclades, time and cultural context, they might very have been from other groups which came from the Carpathians or the Central Balkans too, because most people ending up in Bulgaria were (like Brnjica and Encrusted Pottery), or alternatively from the steppe (Cernavoda, Yamnaya, Noua-Sabatinovka etc.). Southern influences from the Mycenaeans were also present before, but that's typical for the Channelled Ware expansion, that everything became for some centuries oriented to the North, which is from where they were coming.

 

[Dushman]

Wow, a lot has happened in 1 night. A revival of this thread from the mental disease state of Trojan Dardanians.



It seems they might have deleted the YouTube videos. The second girl admits Iranian origin from her father’s side.

Then if you think I’m lying, go to Gjenetika group on Facebook where another girl got 7% Jewish.

Now find me Albanians from Albania (especially North Albanians) that get roughly 10% Middle East even from these basic tests. Imagine putting these Kosovo outliers to K13 and G25 how much Middle East, Roman Imperial aka Anatolian they’d get.

Looking at Butrint Imeri, Dafina Zeqiri, Capital T, Ermal Fejzullahu, Rita Ora, etc. they look like they came out of Palestine Got Talent.

Now you East Kosovans know very well you mostly migrated from our regions in North Albania, the core of Albanian tribes, and you want to throw dirt on us now? Like those Montenegrin E-V13 and R1b mountain tribes hating on Albanians. Despicable.

P.s. Regarding these Channelled Ware, Gava, etc., let’s not forget that the people that came
to be known as Illyrians were first the South Illyrians, then we learn of Illyrii Proprie Dicti, then we have that Yugoslav study dividing the Illyrians into 3-4 branches (depending who’s actually ethnically Illyrian) and is it clear that based on personal names the Illyrian core is South Illyria, Proprie dicti area around Montenegro and North Albania, Western Dardanians, and the Southern half of Dalmatians.

The 16th century BC Mycenaeans didn’t speak of Illyrians, so why waste time the Y-DNA theories?

It’s from 8-5th century BC and onwards that matters here.

Are you Muhaxhir Dardano-Trojan Union claiming that there were no E-V13 in 5th century BC in the Western Balkans (especially the Southern half) and modern Albania?

Since you truly believe so, why don’t you wait for actual evidence first?

And what’s this confidence of J2b2 being Proto-Illyrian? What if those North Dalmatians and Liburnians spoke an Italo-Celtic language? But actually we already know of their un-Illyrian characteristics, don’t we?

What about the Pannonian-Dalmatian grouping from Hungary, Bosnian, and down to Montenegro that slightly differed from the Proprie Dicti? Are you saying they didn’t have E-V13 either?

Calling E-V13 Daco-Thracian is downright retarded and comes from wishful thinking without proper evidence.

Whose to say the Real Illyrians didn’t spread from Channelled Ware from Northern and Central Balkans too and penetrated the Proto-Italic Western Balkans and pushed the Liburni and related tribes (probably J2b2) to the Westermost corners of the Balkans?

Am I saying J2b2 is Italic? No, I’m not delusional to make such claims, especially as simply a history and genetics enthusiast. I’ll just wait and see.

 

[mount123]

He has to, not because he can connect these haplogroups with any sort of cultural formation of importance for Thracians, but because he just thinks/wants that Thracians being present in the region before E-V13 and claims that E-V13 had nothing to do with the Thracians. Since he now realised that Channelled Ware and E-V13 might have something in common and he could be proven wrong with what he said before, he now shifts to: Well, Channelled Ware together with other Pannonian and Northern-Central Balkan groups (like Brnjica and Encrusted Pottery) might have brought E-V13, but they were no Thracian speakers but something else which was just soaked up by the locals.

And these locals, before the transitional period, seem to have been dominated by R-Z2103, I2a and G2a. Though "local" is a difficult thing, because depending on exact subclades, time and cultural context, they might very have been from other groups which came from the Carpathians or the Central Balkans too, because most people ending up in Bulgaria were (like Brnjica and Encrusted Pottery), or alternatively from the steppe (Cernavoda, Yamnaya, Noua-Sabatinovka etc.). Southern influences from the Mycenaeans were also present before, but that's typical for the Channelled Ware expansion, that everything became for some centuries oriented to the North, which is from where they were coming.

I ran out of upvotes. You can view this post as an upvote to your comment

 

[Southpaw]

Wow, a lot has happened in 1 night. A revival of this thread from the mental disease state of Trojan Dardanians.
View attachment 13111
View attachment 13112

It seems they might have deleted the YouTube videos. The second girl admits Iranian origin from her father’s side.

Then if you think I’m lying, go to Gjenetika group on Facebook where another girl got 7% Jewish.

Now find me Albanians from Albania (especially North Albanians) that get roughly 10% Middle East even from these basic tests. Imagine putting these Kosovo outliers to K13 and G25 how much Middle East, Roman Imperial aka Anatolian they’d get.

Looking at Butrint Imeri, Dafina Zeqiri, Capital T, Ermal Fejzullahu, Rita Ora, etc. they look like they came out of Palestine Got Talent.

Now you East Kosovans know very well you mostly migrated from our regions in North Albania, the core of Albanian tribes, and you want to throw dirt on us now? Like those Montenegrin E-V13 and R1b mountain tribes hating on Albanians. Despicable.

P.s. Regarding these Channelled Ware, Gava, etc., let’s not forget that the people that came
to be known as Illyrians were first the South Illyrians, then we learn of Illyrii Proprie Dicti, then we have that Yugoslav study dividing the Illyrians into 3-4 branches (depending who’s actually ethnically Illyrian) and is it clear that based on personal names the Illyrian core is South Illyria, Proprie dicti area around Montenegro and North Albania, Western Dardanians, and the Southern half of Dalmatians.

The 16th century BC Mycenaeans didn’t speak of Illyrians, so why waste time the Y-DNA theories?

It’s from 8-5th century BC and onwards that matters here.

Are you Muhaxhir Dardano-Trojan Union claiming that there were no E-V13 in 5th century BC in the Western Balkans (especially the Southern half) and modern Albania?

Since you truly believe so, why don’t you wait for actual evidence first?

And what’s this confidence of J2b2 being Proto-Illyrian? What if those North Dalmatians and Liburnians spoke an Italo-Celtic language? But actually we already know of their un-Illyrian characteristics, don’t we?

What about the Pannonian-Dalmatian grouping from Hungary, Bosnian, and down to Montenegro that slightly differed from the Proprie Dicti? Are you saying they didn’t have E-V13 either?

Calling E-V13 Daco-Thracian is downright retarded and comes from wishful thinking without proper evidence.

Whose to say the Real Illyrians didn’t spread from Channelled Ware from Northern and Central Balkans too and penetrated the Proto-Italic Western Balkans and pushed the Liburni and related tribes (probably J2b2) to the Westermost corners of the Balkans?

Am I saying J2b2 is Italic? No, I’m not delusional to make such claims, especially as simply a history and genetics enthusiast. I’ll just wait and see.

Eğer olsaydı dünyânın yarısı düşmânımız olurdu.

You blabber about Ottoman-Turkish yet your username is Ottoman-Turkish derived, start from it.