Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

[mount123]

Kudo që jeni Arbnorë, urime 16 vjetorin e Pavarësisë së Dardanisë

 

[PaleoRevenge]

Ethnic Albania based on haplogroups.

R-Z2705
It's passable

E-V13
Extremely passable

J2b-L283
hmmmm Timmy!!!!!

R-PF7566 (native R-PF7563 of central-northern Albania)

R-Y32042(native R-PF7563 to southern Albania, ie descendants of Kamenica samples)

So who are the real Albanian haplogroups? E-V13 with it's R-Z2705 sidekick and R-Y83965? Or J2b-L283, R-PF7566, R-Y32042 and R-BY250? This is not hard to figure out.

 

[norbert]

The Albanians are quite diverse for a small people. I'd say the original Albanian haplogroups are R1b-PF7563 and R1b-Z2103 which would make them the direct descendants of Yamnaya. E-V13 and J2b-L283 represent other ethnic substrates that were assimilated in ancient times.

 

[MOESAN]

I'm not sure a lot of Y-J2b-L283 are not a superstratum indeed...

 

[PaleoRevenge]

In genarchivist someone posted a link from an insider sharing results from the upcoming Bulgarian study, I will post what's relevant for this thread.

I would add that for a long time there is a clear difference between the populations in southern and northern Bulgarians, which began during the Hellenistic era and disappeared only after the 13th-14th century. The changes in the south began during the Hellenistic era, when the local genomes became a minority there, and the north. b. apazava autochtonic character. in the south as early as the 3-1 century BC. we meet sub-Saharan Africans, North Africans, Persians, all exotic haplogroups, Siberians and the only thing I don't think are papuas. in the imperial era. Plovdiv preserves the diversity of the Hellenistic era and adds Anatolians to it; things in the South have acquired a very exotic character in the period 7-8 century, when there is an influx of people in southwestern Asia - Persia, india, Pakistan, at least this is what exotic, unique haplogroups say. in the 11th-13th century there is a second migrant wave from the southeast, this time an anatomy. at least I connect the 7th-9th century wave (which is super-exotic for Europe) with fugitive migrants from the Islamic conquest of Iran and Pakistan; and the second with fugitives from the Seljuk conquest of Anatolia. the so-called Bogomils carry genomes of Persia and the Indus River, and I am very much in doubt to connect even indirectly with the Balkans. Their haplogroups are unambiguous - R2, L, those in Europe and the Anatolia that even the Middle East has never existed, their epicenter is between feathers and the Indus River today; respectively, I do not know what these people have brought as a religion - Hinduism (this for the rebirth of souls, for example, miterism, Mazdaism, zoroastrianism, a pinch of Manic Christianity, perhaps - but hardly - and from this symbiosis, Bogomilism, Torbeshi, baboons, baboons and other Cathars were probably born. Most of the time, in my opinion, this Bulgarian has at least retained its indigenous character, at least until the 820th, when Omurtag banishes the Timochans. which I think are not a Slavic tribe, but a Balkan one. and I think it drives them to future albania, which is amazing. again, in my opinion, in the same region as B's, future Vlachs are formed, along the sirmium-middle strip. After 1200. the two Bulgarians mix. Or rather the three, if I count the Timochans and the Vlachs. I will not comment on Slavs and Proto-Bulgarians, except that they have survived in abundant quantities, and so on to this day. Of the proto-Bulgarian results, I suspect no one will be happy, but the Altaists will suffer the most, perhaps. Which, however, tells us nothing about, for example, the language of the proto-Bulgarians, which we cannot understand from their genes. However, their population history is quite trivial and nothing special. Unlike the Gothic, where we sequenced the 30th genome, incl. of t. pomegranate royal Goths and are a suffocating sight. Of the 30 genomes, only a few are I1, enough to confirm that they are really cool; the rest - brutal, tough 100% steppe from the whole steppe, and Caucasians from the newspaper. This, alas, the Goths, not the proto-Bulgarians. But, I think I've said enough and even more than I should. With the proviso that the interpretations are my personal and will not go through the scrubbing of the scientific teams and will be rejected, admitting that much of what is written is real speculation rather than "data".

25% анатолийско-византийски компонент в съвременните българи.

Мисля, че ще е безопасно да съобщя едно наблюдение от изследването ни на днк от миналото на българските земи. След 700 секвенирани образци, от близо 300 образци от територията на първото българско царство (на север от стара планина), за всичките му 2 века и половина, почти няма индивид от хаплогр...

www.forumnauka.bg

The author says after Roman period, native genes survive in northern Bulgaria, and probably western. The author thinks Timochans are not Slavic, but I think that's his bad understanding of associating geography with the preceding population. He makes an interesting comment that these "Timochans" were banished in 820s by Omurtag and drives these people into "future" Albania. Needless to say this is the Bessi theory reincarnated.
Also interesting, some of the locals stayed behind and only mix in with the Bulgaro-Slavs starting in 1200s. It would be great if there is a future study with a special focus on taking samples from these region for the period 200 -1000 AD.

 

[Hawk]

In genarchivist someone posted a link from an insider sharing results from the upcoming Bulgarian study, I will post what's relevant for this thread.

25% анатолийско-византийски компонент в съвременните българи.

Мисля, че ще е безопасно да съобщя едно наблюдение от изследването ни на днк от миналото на българските земи. След 700 секвенирани образци, от близо 300 образци от територията на първото българско царство (на север от стара планина), за всичките му 2 века и половина, почти няма индивид от хаплогр...

www.forumnauka.bg

The author says after Roman period, native genes survive in northern Bulgaria, and probably western. The author thinks Timochans are not Slavic, but I think that's his bad understanding of associating geography with the preceding population. He makes an interesting comment that these "Timochans" were banished in 820s by Omurtag and drives these people into "future" Albania. Needless to say this is the Bessi theory reincarnated.
Also interesting, some of the locals stayed behind and only mix in with the Bulgaro-Slavs starting in 1200s. It would be great if there is a future study with a special focus on taking samples from these region for the period 200 -1000 AD.

He does make some remarks but he is very confusing, i think he lacks understanding how archaeogenomics works.

Initially in another thread he says Kapitan Andreevo E-V13 came from Anatolia after Troy fell (literally he says Trojan allies who came from Kurdistan (lol delusional)).

Then he says in its very early prehistoric times it came from North-East, what is North-East exactly?

But, we shall wait and see the final results, and we will do the interpretation of how situation looks like. But i think, he is wrong. Remember when Etruscans were hailed as Anatolian newcomers when all archaeologists were categorically refusing that due to their heavy local and Urnfield influence drastically different even from Aegean let alone Anatolia. Same thing applies to E-V13 cultural complex. They were intruders in NW-Anatolia during LBA, if not one of the cause of downfall of Hittite Empire. For instance the problematic Muski: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mushki

looks like in historical time they were known in NW-Anatolia as Mysi likely and in Balkans as Mysi/Moesians.

Maybe we will be surprised somehow, but i just think it's subjective interpretations of leaks and bad faith interpretations. There are small room for errors IMO.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

I noticed he had weird interpretations. I posted his comment anyhow since he made the remark about a migrations of locals into Albania as a surprising unseen result. IBD matches? Or haplogroups matches? We will see.
What is cool is that in the interview about the Greek origins, the other insider said papers take longer to publish because we have started introducing IBD methods after the product is almost finished. I don't mind that. I'd love to see the wedgie boy argue how IBD matches are the result of singular samples.

 

[Hawk]

I noticed he had weird interpretations. I posted his comment anyhow since he made the remark about a migrations of locals into Albania as a surprising unseen result. IBD matches? Or haplogroups matches? We will see.
What is cool is that in the interview about the Greek origins, the other insider said papers take longer to publish because we have started introducing IBD methods after the product is almost finished. I don't mind that. I'd love to see the wedgie boy argue how IBD matches are the result of singular samples.

That greeting about J2b2 Illyrians and Gujarati people triggered Brumi for bad, it was epic, he was hyped when he mentioned E-V13 and Thracians now he wants to label him as not trustworthy.

25% анатолийско-византийски компонент в съвременните българи.

www.forumnauka.bg

 

[epirus1000]

In genarchivist someone posted a link from an insider sharing results from the upcoming Bulgarian study, I will post what's relevant for this thread.

25% анатолийско-византийски компонент в съвременните българи.

Мисля, че ще е безопасно да съобщя едно наблюдение от изследването ни на днк от миналото на българските земи. След 700 секвенирани образци, от близо 300 образци от територията на първото българско царство (на север от стара планина), за всичките му 2 века и половина, почти няма индивид от хаплогр...

www.forumnauka.bg

The author says after Roman period, native genes survive in northern Bulgaria, and probably western. The author thinks Timochans are not Slavic, but I think that's his bad understanding of associating geography with the preceding population. He makes an interesting comment that these "Timochans" were banished in 820s by Omurtag and drives these people into "future" Albania. Needless to say this is the Bessi theory reincarnated.
Also interesting, some of the locals stayed behind and only mix in with the Bulgaro-Slavs starting in 1200s. It would be great if there is a future study with a special focus on taking samples from these region for the period 200 -1000 AD.

I read this: "Ev-13 does not necessarily seem to be related to the Thracians, but to other Paleo-Balkan ethnicities with little-known names today."
So, there are little Ev-13 in those areas. I don't know how is the "Bessi theory reincarnated".
The paper is very important to remove for good the Thracians as the origin of proto-Albanians. Good to see that.

 

[Archetype0ne]

Polska posted this on another forum:

PolskaTranscript of conversation between Khan and Kristiansen:

Khan: “And then with Albanian, I read that paper and it seemed like Albanian/Illyrian is probably directly Yamnaya. Where do you stand on Greek? Is Greek….ah…”

Kristiansen: “Well, well, that is, of course, the $100 dollar question. We have the answer to that and we are about to publish it. We are still working…we are finalizing, fine tuning the manuscript for the Bronze Age Genomic and Linguistic History of the Bronze Age Mediterranean and we have an answer to that.

In a way, it is a follow up and expansion of the paper the Reich Group published 1 or 2 years ago about the Southern Arc. There they show that you have direct Yamnaya migration into the NORTHERN Balkans. And I remember Dr. Heyd told me already several years ago that you had, actually, what looked like Yamnaya tumuli/barrows in Albania…So they should be there, there should be a group of them coming down there…ah..and that has been demonstrated in that paper (Southern Arc) from the Harvard Group.

Now what happens then later and HOW FAR SOUTH (emphasis mine) they get and what impact they would have on Bronze Age Greek…ah…we have been sequencing a large number of individuals and we can definitely prove an answer to that, but you’ll have to wait for the paper.”

-End of brief conversation on Bronze Age Greek-

I guess the senseless bickering going on here for years now might get a conclusion one way or the other.

 

[Archetype0ne]

The full quote seems more interesting:

^Timestamped: 25:10

It seems that they are sitting on a lot of samples, and that they were about to publish but had to delay due to IBD methods.

 

[Archetype0ne]

Based on the talk it seems Khan has read the Kamenice paper, and it also seems like Kristiansen has insight on the work of Reich, Anthony etc going on. This year might be stacked when it comes to papers:

pelopSome new abstracts (no papers yet)

Source:

transfomation_abstracts_17April2024_final.pdf

drive.google.com

Home | My Site

www.transformeurope2budapest2024.com

The Genetic Origin and Linguistic Expansion of the Indo-Europeans
David Reich, David W. Anthony and Dorcas R. Brown

Part 1 David Reich: The Genetic Origin of the Indo-Europeans

The Yamnaya archaeological complex appeared around 3300 BCE across the steppes north of the Black and Caspian Seas, and by 3000 BCE reached its maximal extent from Hungary in the west to Kazakhstan in the east. To localize the ancestral and geographical origins of the Yamnaya among the diverse Eneolithic people that preceded them, we studied ancient DNA data from 428 individuals of which 299 are reported for the first time, demonstrating three previously unknown Eneolithic genetic clines. First, a “Caucasus-Lower Volga” (CLV) Cline suffused with Caucasus hunter-gatherer (CHG) ancestry extended between a Caucasus Neolithic southern end including people from Neolithic Armenia, and a steppe northern end including Eneolithic people from Berezhnovka in the lower Volga. Bidirectional gene flow across the CLV cline created admixed intermediate populations in both the north Caucasus, such as the Maikop people, and on the steppe, such as those at the site of Remontnoye north of the Manych depression. CLV people also helped form two major riverine clines by admixing with distinct groups of European hunter-gatherers. A “Volga Cline” was formed as lower Volga people mixed with upriver populations that had more Eastern hunter-gatherer (EHG) ancestry, creating genetically hyper-variable populations as at Khvalynsk
in the Middle Volga. A “Dnipro Cline” was formed as CLV people bearing both Caucasus Neolithic and lower Volga ancestry moved west and acquired Ukraine Neolithic hunter-gatherer (UNHG) ancestry to establish the population of the Serednii Stih culture from which the direct ancestors of the Yamnaya themselves were formed around 4000 BCE. This population grew rapidly after 3750–3350 BCE, precipitating the expansion of people of the Yamnaya culture who totally displaced previous groups on the Volga and further east, while admixing with
more sedentary groups in the west. CLV cline people with lower Volga ancestry contributed four fifths of the ancestry of the Yamnaya, but also, entering Anatolia from the east, contributed at least a tenth of the ancestry of Bronze Age Central Anatolians, where the Hittite language, related to the Indo-European languages spread by the Yamnaya, was spoken. We thus propose that the final unity of the
speakers of the “Proto-Indo-Anatolian” ancestral language of both Anatolian and Indo-European languages can be traced to CLV people living in the north Caucasus, lower Don and lower Volga sometime between 4400–4000 BCE.

Part 2 David Anthony and Dorcas R. Brown: The Yamnaya Origins and the Expansion of Late PIE Languages

The origin and expansion of the Yamnaya culture is difficult to understand without adequate aDNA sampling of populations from the Pontic-Caspian steppes. A new study from the David Reich lab of aDNA from more than 400 Eneolithic and Bronze Age individuals from the Pontic-Caspian steppes reveals a complex chronological layering and admixture of multiple ancestries that contributed to Yamnaya genetic origins, probably within the eastern range of Seredni Stih populations in the early to mid-4th millennium BCE. As the Yamnaya population
expanded, after about 3000 BCE, people who shared steppe genetic ancestry innovated to create new material (archaeological) cultures on both the eastern (Afanasievo) and western (Corded Ware) wings of the expansion, creating what archaeologists often regard as independent cultural entities that obscured a shared genetic and perhaps linguistic heritage. It seems that people who shared genetic ancestry often created distinct material cultures, and occasionally people with similar material cultures had distinct genetic ancestries (Lower Don and Core Yamnaya). Genes and material culture can follow different trajectories, and the comparison of aDNA & archaeology provides a tool to explore their complex relationship.

Bioarchaeology of Innovations — The 4th/3rd Millennium BC in the Caucasus and Beyond
Sabine Reinhold, Wolfgang Haak, Ayshin Ghalichi, and Christina Warinner

The 4th and 3rd millennia BC witnessed an acceleration of cultural interaction, which included the rapid spread of new technologies and social concepts at an unprecedented rate across much of Eurasia. In recent years, bioarchaeological research in the wider Caucasus region has revolutionised the understanding of the emergence of the Eurasian interaction sphere by revealing several key factors that were fundamental to a technological, economic and social framework that enabled life in the largely hostile environments of the steppe.
Ancient DNA of humans revealed highly dynamic trajectories in the formation of biological populations, among them the ‘steppe genetic ancestry’, later prominent in Yamnaya and other steppe populations. It also revealed a complex biological demarcation between people in the steppe and the mountains and piedmonts with a ‘Caucasus genetic ancestry’ that lasted for about 3,000 years from the 5th to the late 2nd millennium BCE. We find identical cultural formations, such as the Early Bronze Age Maykop culture, associated with several different genetic ancestry profiles, as well as different archaeological cultures of the Middle Bronze Age associated with identical genetic ancestry profiles. Technologies like the development of wheeled vehicles and drought animals crossed this boundary, as did the technology that probably was crucial to the development of the steppe as a permanent human habitat – dairy farming. Palaeoproteomics specifies the first
consumers of dairy products in steppe peoples of the late 5th and 4th millennium BCE. The first steps towards the domestication of the horse were taken in the late 4th millennium BC north of the Caucasus, and the decisive steps in the breeding of woolly sheep can probably also be dated to this time. The multiproxy bioarcheological perspective does not only elucidate these processes but is fundamental to understand the cultural fabric emerging across the Eurasian steppes in the late 4th and 3rd millennia BCE.

Human Genetics Perspective of the Carpathian Basin at the Dawn of the 3rd Millennium BCE
Anna Szécsényi-Nagy, János Dani, Gabriella Kulcsár, Dániel Gerber, Tamás Hajdu, Alena Šefčáková, Ron Pinhasi, Balázs Gusztáv Mende, Mária Bondár, David Reich

This paper explores the archaeogenomic landscape of the Carpathian Basin around the transition from the 3rd millennium BCE, leveraging both published and new ancient DNA data. During the final phase of the Late Copper Age, archaeological cultures such as the Baden Complex and the Coţofeni culture witnessed the emergence of kurgan burials from the westernmost communities related to the Yamnaya culture across the Pannonian Plain and Transylvania. The arrival of these communities is traced back to the northeast Balkans around 3100/3000 BCE. Our analyses indicate that Yamnaya-associated individuals from Hungary and certain burials of the so-called
‘East Slovakian Mound cultures’ are genetically indistinguishable, reflecting the genetic makeup of the Yamnaya group from the Samara region in Russia. Interestingly, the introgression of additional farmer ancestry within the Yamnaya sample set appears sporadic, while dating of these introgressions reveals local contributions in only a few instances. Our paper presents evidence of potential sex-biased diffusion of Yamnaya-related ancestry into the Carpathian Basin and the dynamics of the early 3rd millennium BCE spread of steppe components in
the area. Concurrent with the cultural and genetic impacts of the Yamnaya and Corded Ware, the Vučedol culture of Slavonia/north Balkans emerged, significantly influencing the Early Bronze Age community formation in southern Transdanubia. The Vučedol culture was noted for introducing steppe-related genetic ancestry into their region in the early 3rd millennium BCE, thereby diversifying ancestry
proportions within the population. These new findings provide significant insight into the complex genetic and cultural transformations within East-Central Europe during this pivotal era, directly contributing to our understanding of Early Bronze Age population formations.

Pandemics and Migration: The Neolithic–Corded Ware Transition in Northern Europe
Kristian Kristiansen
Co-authors: Frederik Valeur Seersholm, Martin Sikora, Abigail Daisy Ramsøe,
Jialu Cao (aDNA analyses), Karl-Goran Sjogren, Laurę Salanova and Philippe Chambon
(archaeology), Morten Fischer Mortensen, Ralph Fyfe (pollen summaries), Torben Dehn
and Svend Hansen (megalith end-dates)

Recent genetic evidence on the spread of the Neolithic plague indicates that it was a ’global’ pandemic covering large tracts of the Eurasian continent. It demands that we re-evaluate its demographic impact on late Neolithic populations, which has been questioned. We present new evidence from two megaliths in respectively western Sweden and NW France, where the effects of the plague can be documented. To this we add new independent evidence from pollen diagrams, as well as 14C dates of the end of megalithic architecture. It all supports a major demographic decline from northwestern France to South Scandinavia. It also adds a new perspective on the 14C sum curves as parameters of demography, which has been debated, but which can be correlated in time with the genetic and environmental results. Taken together they provide a new prelude to the onset of steppe migrations and their geographical expansion. This is followed by an interpretation of the migratory processes, their social and environmental impact in Denmark.

Well, from the abstract alone there is a lot to digest.

It seems they think CVL was the base for IE?
And it seems the Danube as was suspected was the main highway for the early Yamnaya groups into the Balkans.

Have to say, that if this read is indeed correct, I feel a bit vindicated for my stance on this the last couple of years.

 

[epirus1000]

Based on the talk it seems Khan has read the Kamenice paper, and it also seems like Kristiansen has insight on the work of Reich, Anthony etc going on. This year might be stacked when it comes to papers:



Well, from the abstract alone there is a lot to digest.

It seems they think CVL was the base for IE?
And it seems the Danube as was suspected was the main highway for the early Yamnaya groups into the Balkans.

Have to say, that if this read is indeed correct, I feel a bit vindicated for my stance on this the last couple of years.

Khan was pretty sure that Albania/Illyrians meaning Balkans in the Harvard paper of 2022. Adding the Kamenice paper and burial type connected directly to Yamnaya according to Kristiansen.
Moreover Kristiansen suggesting the upcoming paper will give a final answer to Greek relations to Yamnaya, which might help define also the proto-Albanian relations to Greeks in the Bronze age.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

That greeting about J2b2 Illyrians and Gujarati people triggered Brumi for bad, it was epic, he was hyped when he mentioned E-V13 and Thracians now he wants to label him as not trustworthy.

25% анатолийско-византийски компонент в съвременните българи.

www.forumnauka.bg

Brumi is likely a E-V13 cuck. PS

It is possible this Bulgarian is equating E-L618 with E-V13? If any E-V13 branch migrated to Bulgaria prematurely it would not be an abundant branch among moderns anyhow as Bulgaria saw repeated turnovers, similar to R-PF7563 position in modern Albania, a trace lineage from a bygone time.

 

[mount123]

I10206, Moldova_EBA_Yamnaya, 2900-2500 BCE, J-L283

Grave 12:10 (individual ID I10206)

The grave was situated in the northeastern sector of the mound, 2.80 m away from the central landmark (R.C.), at a depth of 1.65 m. The burial chamber, rectangular with rounded corners and slightly arched sides, was oriented east-west, measuring 1.25 × 1.80 m. Based on the characteristics of the filling of the pit, the arrangement of skeletal remains, and the location of the grave goods, it can be inferred that grave no.10/M.10 was disturbed in ancient times. The skeletal remains were found scattered in different areas of the pit and at different depths.

It was deduced that the deceased was originally placed at the bottom of the pit, with the head oriented to the east. Traces from the plant layer covering the pit bottom were found near and beneath the skeleton. Grave goods: a flint arrowhead of elongated triangular shape with slightly convex sides and a concave base. The artefacts’ length is 2 cm, width 1.4 cm, and thickness 0.5cm.

The skeleton, lacking anatomical connection, is incomplete and poorly preserved. Traces of bright red ochre were identified on all its elements, particularly intense on the skull. Other taphonomic changes observed include cracking, exfoliation (aerial weathering), and marks left by rodent teeth.

Anthropological sex: male.
Molecular sex: male, with an unusual Y-haplogroup J2b2a1 (J-L283).
Biological age at death: about 30 years (young adult).
Pathologies: supragingival calculus; active porotic hyperostosis (cribra cranii).

The skeleton is very robust, with extremely pronounced muscle insertions, with extensive enthesopathic changes on the humerus and femurs. The individual exhibits a very large skeletal stature, at least 181 cm.

Traumas: a perimortem fracture in the middle third of the right clavicle.

The burial must be attributed to Cernavodă-I or Yamnaya cultures.

 

[Hawk]

Brumi is likely a E-V13 cuck. PS

It is possible this Bulgarian is equating E-L618 with E-V13? If any E-V13 branch migrated to Bulgaria prematurely it would not be an abundant branch among moderns anyhow as Bulgaria saw repeated turnovers, similar to R-PF7563 position in modern Albania, a trace lineage from a bygone time.

He was trolling E-V13 thread with his other sock-puppet account Ushta for a week, forget about targaryen and his army of split-personality sock-puppet accounts.

As for him (the Bulgarian), he was just puzzled because during Chalcolithic E-V13 appears somewhere in-between North Carpathian and Ukrainian Steppe which we saw among Usatovo Kurgan approximately. I actually must give props here to Huban because he once mentioned this possibility. He cited precisely Cardial-Ware influence in a North-Pontic Culture. But i took him lightly/not serious.

Part of these E-V13 mixed with European HG (not sure if he meant I2) which together created Chalcolithic Cultures from Northern Balkans, very important ones, not sure which in particular.

Then in Late Chalcolithic E-V13 spread somewhere in Bulgaria. But he totally acknowledges the Psenicevo came from the North in Early Iron Age. It's just waves.


As for J2b2-L283 among Crnavoda and Yamnaya, good that they published because our J2b2 friends were quite nervous for a couple of hours because of counter-trolling, but to remind them:

Molecular sex: male, with an unusual Y-haplogroup J2b2a1 (J-L283).

You are as Steppe as E-V13, I2, I1.

 

[mount123]

As for J2b2-L283 among Crnavoda and Yamnaya, good that they published because our J2b2 friends were quite nervous for a couple of hours because of counter-trolling, but to remind them:

Molecular sex: male, with an unusual Y-haplogroup J2b2a1 (J-L283).

You are as Steppe as E-V13, I2, I1.

CHG auDNA and uniparental DNA in prehistoric Eastern Europe disagrees. Quite frankly, give it a rest e pusho pak.

To remind you: The skeleton is very robust, with extremely pronounced muscle insertions, with extensive enthesopathic changes on the humerus and femurs. The individual exhibits a very large skeletal stature, at least 1,81 m.

 

[Hawk]

CHG auDNA and uniparental DNA in prehistoric Eastern Europe disagrees. Quite frankly, give it a rest e pusho pak.

To remind you: The skeleton is very robust, with extremely pronounced muscle insertions, with extensive enthesopathic changes on the humerus and femurs. The individual exhibits a very large skeletal stature, at least 1,81 m.

lol, childish. Point being 1 sample among hundreds of other R1b/R1a Steppe.

 

[Trojet]

lol, childish. Point being 1 sample among hundreds of other R1b/R1a Steppe.

Point is that one sample proved you wrong about J2b-L283

What's funny is it got published within hours after your post at the other forum doubting it has anything to do with Steppe..

 

[PaleoRevenge]

As for him (the Bulgarian), he was just puzzled because during Chalcolithic E-V13 appears somewhere in-between North Carpathian and Ukrainian Steppe which we saw among Usatovo Kurgan approximately. I actually must give props here to Huban because he once mentioned this possibility. He cited precisely Cardial-Ware influence in a North-Pontic Culture. But i took him lightly/not serious.

Part of these E-V13 mixed with European HG (not sure if he meant I2) which together created Chalcolithic Cultures from Northern Balkans, very important ones, not sure which in particular.

Then in Late Chalcolithic E-V13 spread somewhere in Bulgaria. But he totally acknowledges the Psenicevo came from the North in Early Iron Age. It's just waves.

They pick and choose what to focus from the Bulgarian leaks. The poster clearly said autosomaly there is a night and day difference with Penschievo vs BA layer, it can't more clear cut than that.

Looks like there will be huge data dumps this year.
That paper about Hungary might be the one that everyone posted slides from youtube a while back, with two E-V13s in the graph.

That fellow in the Bulgarian forum, engaging the insider, claiming to be Macedonian is probably Huban.