Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

[torzio]

stan is suitable too, as ofc do you know the etymology of "Aspurg"? It's an Iranian Sarmatian name attested in Tanais and elsewhere.

Btw I said nothing out of ordinary on anthrogenica, first ban was me telling Bruzmi that he will not "inferiorise" V13 with his "V13 was in Balkans forever just standing in one place and being assimilated by the others". And the second was after I posted a link to Cognitive Dissonance article in my post as he was still mentioning Western Balkans just after Southern Arch paper was published.

Excine decided to make personal attacks against me based on false notions about me, making assumptions, as he couldn't debate me. I don't get "hurt" by implying Albanian connection as I'm no self-identifying Serb. I do get irritated about implying I have no Nomad-Bulgarian connection as I invested considerable time successfully proving from the DNA and the historical sources POV that I do. Originally that is how I came to anthrogenica.





Yes I am from Bijelo Polje, maybe the oldest attested family from that area.

As far as I know, on poreklo there are almost no Slavic autochthonist people, almost all claim that I2a is Slavic in origin. I am poreklo forum member but I am not poreklo society member. Poreklo forum members are various, atm member is also user KučPalabardi, who is I think a Rrenjet administrator. Also Rugovac, who was supposedly Albanian, though some disputed this.



You are Albanian, and some Albanians such as that "Rugovac" claimed along the lines that maternal uncle is not related to you, and that member of the same tribe, same paternal ancestor from 300 years back is closer than any maternal side relative.

So from that perspective, one can claim to be anything his father was, his grandfather, his fathers fathers father, his greatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgreatgrandfather etc..

So I can be whatever was my paternal ancestor at a given time in all of history.

I have total right to call myself Bulgarian, as in 14th century my ancestors were Bulgarian, and they did not fully assimilate into the locals until the 16th century.
Also as Cuman names seem stronger than it should be for Slavic Bulgarians, such connection looks obvious (might mention Pecheneg connection in C.Balkans).

Btw. I talked about this to Bulgarian dignitaries. I always mean business. I know more ambassadors and diplomats than there are people posting here daily, so why should I care about some insignificant internet space owners and who they ban or not. Anthrogenica as the most active DNA site is still a micro site.



I recall being closer to Bosniaks or Croats than to Serbs, clustering only with NE Serbs. My Bosniak side is mostly Central Bosnia and these are known to have more Slavic ancestry than maybe even all of Croats (as these have some Western-German input).

This is because Bosniaks from Central Bosnia descend of islamized locals who did not mix with the Vlachs much (maybe some older Roman elements), whereas Bosniaks from Northern Bosnia and Herzegovina are basically loaded with Islamized Serbo-Vlach element.

Some Balkan lower than avg. , some Anatolia, that was on FTDNA, but I need to do a better auDNA test tbh.




I think N.Macedonians do have CTS1450, both Albanian and other lineages.

Never been autochtonist. That's a point of view and time. Are Kosovo Albanians native to Kosovo past the 400 year mark, vast majority are not, maybe they were 1500 years ago. Are Croatian and Bosnian Serbs native to the region? Only to Eastern Herzegovina past the 500 year mark.
Are the Bosniaks from the NW and NE Bosnia native to that area past the 500 year period. No, they for the most part descend of Serbo-Vlachs who got Islamized in 6th century, and actually the home of modern NE Bosniaks is Western Serbia, for some even Sandzak etc.

Also obviously Illyrians got displaced and killed by the Romans, and by the time of Slavic invasion in the Western Balkans Justinian plague reduced the long-ago admixed and romanised Illyrian elements to a minimum.

Regarding the Montenegrins, they seem to have a different base to that of Serbs, and Porphyrogenites does not say that Diocleans were of Serbian origin. Their Serbian connection comes later. On the other hand even the most Bosnian of all Medieval Bosnians descend from original Bosnia from Sarajevo to Zenica, have plenty of PH908, and in 10th century that small Bosnia was part of Serbia, so likely some PH908 Serboids settled around Bathinus river and started calling themselves Bosnians, in the same fashion Slavs around Neretva river were Narentians.

Southern Croats same. All of these are basically very similar, and they are totally shaped by religion. If a Serb becomes Catholic he becomes a "Croat", if he becomes a Muslim he becomes a "Bosniak" etc. Personal name is the most important element of their ethnicity.

Who cares about modern day ethnicities anyway.

Venetian records on owning Tanais ( Tana ....Azov ) .........state it was a cimmerian town and so was the area around it

 

[PaleoRevenge]

There are papers about Late Antiquity Bessi but I wasn't satisfied with the authors generic Thracian label regarding their pottery, there must be some more specific links. But that requires comparing them to all archeological cultures immediately prior to Roman arrival.

Archeologist from poreklo was suggesting maybe a direct link of Albanians with the Triballi, with Triballi not being Thracian. Triballi ruler Hales has a name which might fit into Albanian. In 14th century some Vlach groups on Kosovo had name such as Halda, Halapa. There is controversy on this Triballian name, but apparently closest analogies are Egyptian which led Papazoglu even doubting its authenticity, but old pre-proto Albanian shift of sk>h might be the indication.

Yeah the Roman Bessi burial rights were described being similar to LBA eastern Serbia, which is Brnjica territory but the author still called it Thracian. It's irrelevant, you seem to have contacted some of the authors on the Danubian frontier paper (Carles Laleaza team) two years ago, do they intend on taking any samples (maybe they have already) from the late antiquity Bessi sites? If you have any such contacts, please let us know if anything is coming down the pipeline. Even planting the idea into their heads would be a positive step.

Hopefully we'll get lucky with the Bulgarian 1,000+ samples that were just submitted to the Reich lab. Based on the post from the Bulgarian user in anthro, it looks like the Bulgarian team badly wanted to prove a autochthonous sprouting of the Thracians. If that's the case we should get some samples from Brnjica settlements in western Bulgaria, as they would be likely be targets because of their burial rights being cremation.

 

[Johane Derite]

Mayer, who claimed Slavic was an Albanoid dialect that became Balticised, argued this based on certain sound changes shared with albanian alone. Obviously his scenario of Slavic not being phylogenetically related to Baltic is not possible.

However, if his arguments for the sound changes he saw as being parallel in slavic and albanian (ks to h in albanian, ks to x in slavic, for example) are correct, maybe they reflect an ancient period of contact?

If Riverman's argument of certain E-V13 branches entering early slavic populations are correct, then this would possibly be a vector of deep "albanoid-slavic' contacts, and would also support those particular E-V13 branches speaking an Albanoid language.

 

[Johane Derite]

Mayer, who claimed Slavic was an Albanoid dialect that became Balticised, argued this based on certain sound changes shared with albanian alone. Obviously his scenario of Slavic not being phylogenetically related to Baltic is not possible.

However, if his arguments for the sound changes he saw as being parallel in slavic and albanian (ks to h in albanian, ks to x in slavic, for example) are correct, maybe they reflect an ancient period of contact?

If Riverman's argument of certain E-V13 branches entering early slavic populations are correct, then this would possibly be a vector of deep "albanoid-slavic' contacts, and would also support those particular E-V13 branches speaking an Albanoid language.

He refers here to Albanian and Slavic as branches of "Carpathian" indo european, hence his use of "Carpathian here took", etc

 

[Riverman]

If Riverman's argument of certain E-V13 branches entering early slavic populations are correct, then this would possibly be a vector of deep "albanoid-slavic' contacts, and would also support those particular E-V13 branches speaking an Albanoid language.

I think we shouldn't confuse influence with general origins, because it is clear that the Thracian Hallstatt settlements and groups were neighbours to the Slavs and some intermixture might have taken place eventually, which would explain early transmissions of various I2 and E-V13 branches, as well as later ones with Dacians, which are more sure.

What relationship Baltoslavs and Daco-Thracians have is hard to answer, but in my opinion a lot depends on the whether or not Thracian was spread late by F?zesabony-Otomani into the Carpathians or not. If it was spread late, it would rather suggest that Daco-Thracians were a branch from the Pre-Baltoslavic sphere, since F?zesabony was a Carpathian group but the result of Mierzanowice-Kostany pastoralist warriors, related to Baltoslavs, taking over.

Otherwise the whole question of how Albanian relates to Baltoslavic depends, more generally speaking, on whether you consider Albanian being closer to Illyrian or Thracian.

 

[mount123]

Reason for deletion: responding to banned user @Aspurg, now under the sock puppet account @Oroku Saki

 

[mount123]

Reason for deletion: responding to banned user @Aspurg, now under the sock puppet account @Oroku Saki

 

[torzio]

There are scientific papers out there proving Sarmatians were mainly R1a-Z93 and they have nothing to do with your E1b-V13 clade.

Sure, not a Slavic autochonist but calls land of Paleo-Balkan people (Albanians) Serbian or Bulgarian. That is pure Chetnik propaganda based on which Serbs have practiced ethnic cleansing and other atrocities on native Albanians. It is very simple: Slavs are not native to Southeast Europe and moved there freaking late during the medieval era. Now a people who are the purest survival and mosaic of the Paleo-Balkans supposedly moved to their habitat in the last 400 years? Changing the narrative much, huh Archaeogenetic studies showing continuity in uniparentals and autosomals are just a scam, according to you.

If we are native to DARDANIA you ask. Of course, you ardhacak turkoslav.

Romans are supposed to have entirely erradicated my Illyrian paternal ancestors before Slavs came? Pseudoscientific bs Stable population structure paper shows during Imperial Era Illyrian patrilineage still there from Northern Dalmatia to Doclea albeit decreased, today they are unfortunately Slavic infested regions by pidha as you for example. There was only one plague, the Slavic one. "Diocleans", this crackpot's casually using Illyrian ethnonyms to describe Slavic groups. Vocabulary that has been pushed by Serbian Milosevician propagandists.

Look, a real Illyrian Docleatae: ID R3481 from Late Antiquity, Doclea 211-320.5 CE (~266 CE) J2b-L283>>Z615>>Z638>Z1297>Z631>Z1043 nice continuity in Z1297+ territory since the Southern Dalmatia and Kotorr tumuli like the native Shkreli and Hoti for example being opressed in their identity rights in "MNE" and Rashkë. Kotorr also a nice place I have partial ancestry on my father's side from, ancestors who had to hand over their beautifully built Kulla to some brownish Borislavs.

As for your E1b clade being Turkic Pecheneg/Ottoman/Taliban I don't give a flying **** about this, I leave your obsession with your Turkoslavic heritage to you, those are not my kind Aspurgistan Alauakbarovic.

ostrogoths replaced the illyrians in the balkans before the slavs arrived

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostrogothic_Kingdom

 

[PaleoRevenge]

He doesn't know shit. He probably means this Slavomir person that also claims Albania has been ancient Slavic land into which Albanians migrated.

I have paid attention since yesterday to this Poreklo forum and already by looking at older posts of that site this seems to have been the biggest vector of Slavic autochthonist theories in the last decade and ongoing.

On anthrogenica, Huban knew where the R-Z2103(with Balkan IA profile) from the Danubian paper plotted, he must have emailed one of the team members, the pre-print did not disclose this. I have not seen poreklo members talk about Slavic antiquity in the Balkans, and I don't want to get involved in this non-existent debate. You're mad at the insults he threw but keep in mind he was responding to excine/brumi and his troll army. I would not lend my hand to clean some idiots mess, especially if they are hostile to me and and plot to limit my free speech. Let the weakling handle his own fights and don't carry his burden.

I am interested in getting insights to new data.

As for the comment on J2b was eradicated from Roman suppression, that's them coping with reality. We are not mass murderers, the Bosnian war civilian casualties must have been the work of the Byzantines or something, who knows. They have no problem devouring themselves, but we are to believe J2b just died on its own.

 

[Southpaw]

On anthrogenica, Huban knew where the R-Z2103(with Balkan IA profile) from the Danubian paper plotted, he must have emailed one of the team members, the pre-print did not disclose this. I have not seen poreklo members talk about Slavic antiquity in the Balkans, and I don't want to get involved in this non-existent debate. You're mad at the insults he threw but keep in mind he was responding to excine/brumi and his troll army. I would not lend my hand to clean some idiots mess, especially if they are hostile to me and and plot to limit my free speech. Let the weakling handle his own fights and don't carry his burden.

I am interested in getting insights to new data.

As for the comment on J2b was eradicated from Roman suppression, that's them coping with reality. We are not mass murderers, the Bosnian war civilian casualties must have been the work of the Byzantines or something, who knows. They have no problem devouring themselves, but we are to believe J2b just died on its own.

He is right in that the reduce of J2b2 in Dalmatia-Pannonia starting with Roman oppression after the Batos rebellions, likely many males ended up as slaves in South Italian mines, many were dissolved/scattered in/and around other regions or ended up as gladiators (it's notoriously known about Roman strategy to reduce potential future rebellions just as they did with Gauls, Germans, Carthaginians, then Dalmatians and Dacians; No exception), second reduce came from Justinian Plague and thirdly during Dark Age culminating with Slavic migrations/invasions. I think this chronology of events makes sense.

He has an unexplained fixation with Cumans/Pechenegs or whatever, it's true that after dark ages they were known as steppe warriors and were quite the menace but in Iron Age/Classical times their ancestors were absolutely not important, nobody, sifir/zero. Some obscure tribes living in Siberia looking for fame latter on, but, the Balkans was not like before anymore, Christianity and central government of the empire changed the mindset of people.

 

[mount123]

He is right in that the reduce of J2b2 in Dalmatia-Pannonia starting with Roman oppression after the Batos rebellions, likely many males ended up as slaves in South Italian mines, many were dissolved/scattered or as gladiators (it's notoriously known about Roman strategy to reduce potential future rebellions just as they did with Gauls, Germans, Carthaginians, then Dalmatians and Dacians; No exception), second reduce came from Justinian Plague and thirdly during Dark Age culminating with Slavic migrations/invasions. I think this chronology of events makes sense.

He has an unexplained fixation with Cumans/Pechenegs or whatever, it's true that after dark ages they were known as steppe warriors and were quite the menace but in Iron Age/Classical times their ancestors were absolutely not important, nobody, sifir/zero. Some obscure tribes living in Siberia looking for fame latter on, but, the Balkans was not like before anymore, Christianity and central government of the empire changed the mindset of people.

Good post. And correct but it is different saying displacement started during the Roman empire and saying it culminated before the Slavs came. The latter is a dogma that you will see in most posts of Slavic ethnonationalists such as this weird Serbian guy appropriating Cuman/Pecheneg ancestry.

This dogma essentially propagates the "empty Balkans", an almost romantic Slavic ideology which propagates fertile empty land that kind of is made for the Slavs. Illyrians, Moesians, Thracians, Dardanians, Paeonians etc. weren't there. All of this is coupled with Slavic autochthonism. What they then say is that Albanians, having the greatest uniparental and autosomal legacy of all these Paleo-Balkan pops, were the ones migrating into supposedly "Slavic" land.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

He is right in that the reduce of J2b2 in Dalmatia-Pannonia starting with Roman oppression after the Batos rebellions, likely many males ended up as slaves in South Italian mines, many were dissolved/scattered in/and around other regions or ended up as gladiators (it's notoriously known about Roman strategy to reduce potential future rebellions just as they did with Gauls, Germans, Carthaginians, then Dalmatians and Dacians; No exception), second reduce came from Justinian Plague and thirdly during Dark Age culminating with Slavic migrations/invasions. I think this chronology of events makes sense.

He has an unexplained fixation with Cumans/Pechenegs or whatever, it's true that after dark ages they were known as steppe warriors and were quite the menace but in Iron Age/Classical times their ancestors were absolutely not important, nobody, sifir/zero. Some obscure tribes living in Siberia looking for fame latter on, but, the Balkans was not like before anymore, Christianity and central government of the empire changed the mindset of people.

Albanian L283 show diversification starting 200 AD, J2b was recovering, especially in their core regions, Herzegovina, Montenegro, and should in theory have been a L283 refuge area, but outside Albanian linguistic zones it is non-existent. I agree with your take for the regions east of Dalmatia, which were outside imperial control and J2B would have been thinned out before Slavs showed up.

 

[Riverman]

Various Balkan regions were extremely depopulated though, already in the Roman era, when the records were still plentiful.
E.g. in Moesia the impact of the Dacian resettlements was so huge, exactly because the local population was so reduced.
Even for areas outside of the Balkans, like Austria and Southern Germany, we know that after all the raids, plagues and invasions, the local population was greatly reduced, already before the Slavs.
To put it that way, in many regions the Slavs didn't need to finish off a lot of people, because there weren't many when they came in to begin with.
However, since the Slavs too weren't that numerous, even that fractions of earlier populations would have had bigger impact, if they would have survived and procreated at the same level as the Slavs, which they definitely did not.
The Slavs acted mire exclusively and genocidal, being still classical IE clan, tribal warriors, which e.g. the East Germanics were no longer at that time.
In many Northern regions, the retreat of J-L283 surely started already with the La Tene Celtic expansion, which like the Romans did redistribute many carriers secondarily in the Celtic world, imho.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

Going by the assumption that L283 among Albanians represents the local substratum, than Illyrians were not diluted with other haplogroups under Roman rule. In rural areas they were still the majority. Again Montenegro, Herzegovania and parts of Dalmatia are quite rocky and easy to deflect and defend from barbarian raids. To be completely removed from these regions implies they were hunted down to the man.

 

[Oroku Saki]

Good post. And correct but it is different saying displacement started during the Roman empire and saying it culminated before the Slavs came. The latter is a dogma that you will see in most posts of Slavic ethnonationalists such as this weird Serbian guy appropriating Cuman/Pecheneg ancestry.

Don't call me Serbian, degenerated weakling subhuman rat, if I don't identify as such. Even though I may be descended of Medieval Serbian nobility ( of foreign origin), whereas 95 % of modern Serbs do not descend of Rashka Serbs.

Also my ancestors were maybe the greatest Ottoman Ortodox christian collaborators in the whole Western Balkan. I am an Ottoman paternally without any doubt. And Cuman is the icing on the cake.

On one side you tell me I should identify with the Slavs as I have ancestry from various sides, which has merits. On the other, you still stigmatize me by calling me Serbian despite my history with the Serbs, and you attach Serbian crimes (done actually to my closest relatives) and connect me with Miloshevic, whom my father fought against.

This is so dishonorable. I only encountered this in some Sandzak "Bosniaks", and they are Albanian like you, became Muslims 250 years ago and they think of themselves as the greatest Turks in all of history so they can trash anybody. Pathethic and pitiful. Just like Albanian Bashibozuk.
So here I am indeed identifying with my paternal line to the fullest possible extent. And some of those same Sandzak Bosniaks grovel before me and also try to prove they too are Turks.

A life of a worm has more value than yours. Just make sure you are the worm roaming far from my paths. I don't step on worms but in your case I would make an exception. And then you will see who are the Cumans/Pechenegs and what they are capable of.

Worst is that you have no brain. Bruzmi at least has brain. I trashed you, Bruzmi, Exc(rem)in(t)e without even trying hard at all. Too bad your father didn't ejaculate you elsewhere from his tiny dick.

guy appropriating Cuman/Pecheneg ancestry.

I do not appropriate what is mine. That may be according to your concept of "honor", not mine. I have Cuman ancestry. My kin had Cuman names 600 years ago. No other genetic cluster that is 600 years old in the whole Balkans and even broader can boast that.

I don't care about your worthless claims of Balkan peninsula. You stem of a minor part of Paleo-Balkan peoples. All of Paleo-Balkan was trashed by Romans (including those stronger than proto-Albanians), and Romans were trashed by Türks. Bulgars, Cumans, Pechenegs, Ottomans. Türks are superior people born for war and conquest, as proven so many times. I can only be honored my ancestors left Paleo-Balkan and Slavo-Balkan inferiority for Cuman/Türk superiority.

Any land anywhere in this universe belongs only to those who are strong enough to hold it. Was yours? Someone better came, took it away from you, if you were any good your would have conquered them instead.

You and most Albanians, Serbs and what have you not are followers of the cult of a victim, moaning, moaning, and begging the strong for help. I am a follower of the cult of a predator.

That began on the Steppe with original IE groups, but IE groups who got sedentised became over time inferior, and so in Antiquity only Scythians and Sarmatians continued on this path. And still they were defeated and assimilated by Hunno-Turks making them the best of all people in history.

You didn't conquer anything, you were trashed by the Ottomans, so much that you still crawl before the Türks.

If you or any other Albanian had any decency you would have shut your mouth after it was proven V13 has nothing to do with what 95% of you claimed. I am content that our haplogroup was not a victim hg you claimed we were.

I do not require any ethnic identification, and I am above that (being globalist). But in that sense surely I am primarily a Cuman/Türk, and bit of imperialist Bulgarian (whose elite was Turkic mostly). I speak Turkish fluently, also I speak bit of Cuman, with heavy Turkish (organizational etc.) connections, I have done positive things for Cuman/Pecheneg restoration. To all concerned about my ancestry, as I have proven that I research your own ancestry far better than you, you have no business even commenting my own ancestry, for your own sake just bugger off into the distance and don't turn around.

Am I not the demonstration that I have nothing to do with you, or the others? That I am progeny of something else.. as PaleoRevenge said I drive circles around you.. Around anyone..

Regarding Sarmatians, Iazyges had V13, and cousin clades of my own are heavy in that area so in all likelihood they had related clades, possibly even my own clade (if its is home is to the North of Danube it is very likely my clade was present among them).

 

[mount123]

Reason for deletion: responding to banned user @Aspurg, now under the sock puppet account @Oroku Saki

 

[lynxbythetv]

Balkan is believed to be of Turkic origin whereas Balcan in Gaelic is related to strong, stocky, big. Perhaps a description of Mountains. Maybe a descriptive term the Illyrians used.

 

[Oroku Saki]

A Turkish nationalist and Neo-Ottoman, my condolences. You probably also embrace that Turkish superiority by living in Germany and Western Europe off welfare.

Welfare.. I speak 10 languages and hang out with diplomats. I am Turkic nationalist, and Turkish too, Bulgarian (with no anti-Turkic nonsense common with them)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Konya

My greatgreatgreatgrandfather led Bosnians there.

I am an expert in Ottoman history, nobody knows more of Ottoman data on the Balkans, and absolutely nobody knows more on Ottoman Bosnia genealogy than me.

This man is among top people in Bosnian history
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isa_Bey_Ishaković

One of his sons was commander of sultan Mehmed II guards and in 1485 had many feudal possessions, but had only one land directly in his hand: would be my own village (today part of Bijelo Polje). In fact my direct male line ancestor quite possibly participated in the siege of Constantinople on the Ottoman side.

Which is why I am of rare clusters of Serbs/Montenegrins with cousins in Bosniaks from Bosnia but not a single cousin among Bosnian Serbs or Croatian Serbs or Bosnian Croats.
During the Ottoman conquest of North Bosnia, Bijelo Polje - Sjenica - Novi Pazar area Ottoman cavalry were given to Zvornik Sandzak.

Not to mention who built the first mosque in Novi Pazar (my cousin etc.). My paternal line is actually more Bosnian than anything else. Took part in Ottoman conquest of Bosnia, and played crucial role in early history of Novi Pazar sanjak which belonged to Bosnia. Centuries before Albanian Catholics settled and became Muslim 250 years ago.

Today all those Albanians worship Turks.

You're proud that your male paternal ancestor offered his ass to the Turks. What a feminist. Bruzmi and you are actually not that different from one another; he too wants to dissociate E1b-V13 from the Thracians although by claiming it is core Illyrian. Both of you appropriating cultures because you prefer being a secondarily acquired people. Very submissive dudettes.

I am bit feminist, I appreciate strong women, instead of women trapped by walls like Albanians used to do. Which is partly why there are many times more attractive women in Scandinavia than in Balkans.

Maybe secondarily acquired but a second hand BMW is still better than the brand new VW. There can be no Illyrians or Thracians without such language..

Tiny part of the Paleo-Balkans? That is easily refutable with scientific papers (specifically talking about my paternal Illyrian ancestors here). Google: J2b-L283 map. Also, never claimed that you as a Turk have anything to do with me, the hell

To claim Illyrian states or political you must speak an Illyrian language, and you don't, otherwise all those Illyrian names would have been easily decipherable and they are far from that.

Also, keep my father's chad Illyrian dick out of your mouth. Pretty sure it is long enough to fill your filthy throat, pushing against your trachea

Most are chad on the internet.

 

[Oroku Saki]

On anthrogenica, Huban knew where the R-Z2103(with Balkan IA profile) from the Danubian paper plotted, he must have emailed one of the team members, the pre-print did not disclose this.

R-Z2103 from which paper, I did not ask for anything on R-Z2103, either I made a good guess or I got the information the other way. Danubian paper? Unpublished paper, Southern arch?

 

[Oroku Saki]

He is right in that the reduce of J2b2 in Dalmatia-Pannonia starting with Roman oppression after the Batos rebellions, likely many males ended up as slaves in South Italian mines, many were dissolved/scattered in/and around other regions or ended up as gladiators (it's notoriously known about Roman strategy to reduce potential future rebellions just as they did with Gauls, Germans, Carthaginians, then Dalmatians and Dacians; No exception), second reduce came from Justinian Plague and thirdly during Dark Age culminating with Slavic migrations/invasions. I think this chronology of events makes sense.

Western Illyrians were dominated by J-Y15058 and this clade barely exists today on the Balkans. It's totally insignificant in Albanians.

There is a new book "magical world of Illyrians" by Salmedin

He is member of society Baton, promoting publications Acta Illyrica.
This was presentation of the society Bathinus.

I am not sure about him but women next to him, speaking at 10 mins, champions the idea that the modern Bosnians are descended of Bato's Illyrians. She had one video discussion with archeologists and she talked all the time about modern Bosnian Illyrian DNA ancestry.

He has an unexplained fixation with Cumans/Pechenegs or whatever, it's true that after dark ages they were known as steppe warriors and were quite the menace but in Iron Age/Classical times their ancestors were absolutely not important, nobody, sifir/zero. Some obscure tribes living in Siberia looking for fame latter on, but, the Balkans was not like before anymore, Christianity and central government of the empire changed the mindset of people.

I have a fixation with all horse warriors. And actually it was Steppe Iranics that fully developed this culture. Yamnaya had horses but they primarily used other stock, and their application of horses in war was very minimal. And before Cumans, there was an unending streak of these coming in..