Where did haplogroup T first originate ( 2nd Poll with Expanded options )

Where did haplogroup T first originate ( 2nd Poll with Expanded options )

  • Turan Lowland - Kazakh Uplands - Southern Urals ( Central Asia )

    Votes: 2 7.4%

  • East European Plain - Northern Black Sea - Caspian Lowland ( East Europe )

    Votes: 4 14.8%

  • Around the Alpide belt ( West Asia )

    Votes: 16 59.3%

  • Around the Alpide belt ( Himalayas )

    Votes: 5 18.5%
  • Total voters
    27
A

Alpenjager

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Allowed multiple choice (This option doesn't seems to work). Thanks for your participation.
 
Enigma to me. Where is the highest diversity of T?
 
Alpenjager said:
Allowed multiple choice (This option doesn't seems to work). Thanks for your participation.
Click to expand...

I can agree with all 4 choices

but the T Ftdna project state:

the most recent common ancestor of T1 and T2 was a single individual and he might have lived in Azerbaijan, or Bhutan, or somewhere in between, or somewhere a bit further south or west, but I doubt if he or his sons and grandsons travelled very far from the region where they were born. As far as we can tell, after 10000 years only 3 of their descendant lines had survived (two from T1 and one from T2). So we will never know how many branches of T came into existence and then died out in those 10000 years, or how far they spread.

IMO, it is where bactria is on the link below

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bactria

so, it would be the areas Bactrian, Tajik and Kirghiz is today
 
Maybe it showed up in Near East with Caucasian or S-Indian admixture?
 
Am I understanding correctly that T probably originated somewhere in Central Asia and then migrated west (the way the Proto-Indoeuropeans are said to have spread out), sort of settling in the Near East area? I think the highest concentration is in the Northeast Africa area. That may be too simplistic. Sicily looks like it has a good representation. I myself am T1a1a, Sicilian on my father's side.
 
Thorbjorn said:
Am I understanding correctly that T probably originated somewhere in Central Asia and then migrated west (the way the Proto-Indoeuropeans are said to have spread out), sort of settling in the Near East area? I think the highest concentration is in the Northeast Africa area. That may be too simplistic. Sicily looks like it has a good representation. I myself am T1a1a, Sicilian on my father's side.
Click to expand...

The Armenian DNA ftdna project has this ................although a bit old now

Haplogroup T, formerly know as K2, has two branches, T1a & T1b, and is found at low frequencies throughout Europe and in parts of the Middle East, North Africa, and West Africa as can be seen in this MAP. Its origins and spread are still mysterious but we are slowly getting more clarity as can be seen in this new large and relatively slow-to-load MAP. The worldwide distribution of haplogroup T is spotty with some small areas of greater-than-average concentrations. T1a has a more southerly bias from the Near East to Europe and North Africa. T1b has a more northernly bias from the Near East through the Russian plains to Northern Europe.

This is the view of Gareth Henson, administrator of the Haplogroup T project at FTDNA: "I think both T and L originated in the Iraq/Iran region but whereas the branches of L all went in different directions I don't see a similar pattern for T. The main groups are T1a and T1b. Both seem to have spread out together, but T1a shows more variation."

So you would be from the T1a group and myself from the T1b group...............the map below ( also from the site ) while accurate is again oldish

http://www.arslanmb.org/ArmenianDNAProject/subcladetmapupdated.png
 
Sile said:
The Armenian DNA ftdna project has this ................although a bit old now

[snip]

So you would be from the T1a group and myself from the T1b group...............the map below ( also from the site ) while accurate is again oldish

http://www.arslanmb.org/ArmenianDNAProject/subcladetmapupdated.png
Click to expand...

You've come through again, thanks. :good_job:

This may be the stuff of a historical fiction novel from my overactive imagination: if T did originate in Central Asia, maybe several men from one family went their separate ways, going north and south, developing new subclades as time passed.

I know, I know... fiction. :wink:
 
West Asia or Near East not north of the Alpine Belt. Spencer Wells, the geneticist that heads the Genographic Project in search of the scientific "Adam"In the film, Spencer Wells indicated that Thomas Jefferson's Y-Chromosome was "Phoenician", Read more: The National Geographic study "Who were the Phoenicians," revealed that Thomas Jefferson, one of the Founding Fathers of the United States belonged to Y-chromosome Haplogroup K2. The quote from Wells that follows is the scientific explanation of what was discovered in studying Jefferson's DNA.
 
Gedalyah said:
West Asia or Near East not north of the Alpine Belt. Spencer Wells, the geneticist that heads the Genographic Project in search of the scientific "Adam"In the film, Spencer Wells indicated that Thomas Jefferson's Y-Chromosome was "Phoenician", Read more: The National Geographic study "Who were the Phoenicians," revealed that Thomas Jefferson, one of the Founding Fathers of the United States belonged to Y-chromosome Haplogroup K2. The quote from Wells that follows is the scientific explanation of what was discovered in studying Jefferson's DNA.
Click to expand...

This information is outdated. You need to do a little bit of research. The Spencer's Phoenician claim is now proved to be wrong, this claim was pure speculation. K2-M70 is equivalent to T1a but not to T-M184.

You need to update your sources.

Please read to Mendez et al 2011 "The affiliation of the Jefferson haplotype to T1a and the absence of closely related haplotypes (zero to two step mutations away) in the network supports the hypothesis that this haplotype belongs to an ancient rare European Y-chromosome lineage rather than to lineages that recently migrated to Europe from the Near East."
 
This branch of T has its roots in North Africa and has travelled into Spain and up the Atlantic coast to Britain and Ireland. President Thomas Jefferson's paternal line probably belongs to this group. Feel free to contact Gareth Henson
Administrator, Y-DNA Haplogroup T Project.
 
Exciting news for members of the T-M184 Haplogroup!

With assistance from Gareth Henson, Family Tree DNA is pleased to announce the introduction of our new T-M184 SNP Pack with a comprehensive list of the essential SNPs for this branch of the T-M184 Haplogroup. The purpose of this test is to identify your terminal SNP on the Y-DNA Tree of mankind.
​During the past few years, the number of SNPs on our tree has increased dramatically. While we are confident you are in Haplogroup T-M184 or a downstream subgroup, you now have the opportunity to expand the depth of your Haplogroup much further with this exclusive test. This test can help you refine your subclade. If you are not sure whether or not this is the right test for you, we recommend contacting the T Haplogroup Project Administrators.

Click the button below to sign in to your kit. Navigate to advanced orders by clicking the Upgrade button at the top of your myFTDNA account page, and be one of the first customers to get the T-M184 SNP Pack at our introductory beta price of $99! Once this beta run is filled, the price will change to $119.

Note to Big Y users: This message is purely informational and you should not purchase this SNP pack unless it includes markers not included in your Big Y test. Please consult your Haplogroup Administrator to see if this SNP pack is right for you.
 
Mendez 2011
phylogenetic resolution of the Y chromosome haplogroup tree has led to finer temporal and spatial resolution for studies of human migration. Haplogroup T, initially known as K2 and defined by mutation M70, is found at variable frequencies across West Asia, Africa, and Europe. While several SNPs were recently discovered that extended the length of the branch leading to haplogroup T, only two SNPs are known to mark internal branches of haplogroup T. This low level of phylogenetic resolution has hindered studies of the origin and dispersal of this interesting haplogroup, which is found in Near Eastern non-Jewish populations, Jewish populations from several communities, and in the patrilineage of President Thomas Jefferson. Here we map 10 new SNPs that, together with the previously known SNPs, mark 11 lineages and two large subclades (T1a and T1b) of haplogroup T. We also report a new SNP that links haplogroups T and L within the major framework of Y chromosome evolution. Estimates of the timing of the branching events within haplogroup T, along with a comprehensive geographic survey of the major T subclades, suggest that this haplogroup began to diversify in the Near East -25 kya. Our survey also points to a complex history of dispersal of this rare and informative haplogroup within the Near East and from the Near East to Europe and sub-Saharan Africa. The presence of T1a2 chromosomes in Near Eastern Jewish and non-Jewish populations may reflect early exiles between the ancient lands of Israel and Babylon. The presence of different subclades of T chromosomes in Europe may be explained by both the spread of Neolithic farmers and the later dispersal of Jews from the Near East. Finally, the moderately high frequency (-18%) of T1b* chromosomes in the Lemba of southern Africa supports the hypothesis of a Near Eastern, but not necessarily a Jewish, origin for their paternal line.
 
Issa clan in Somalia has over 80% T-M184 the most in the world and we aren't talking about test sample sizes of 2 people or a small hand full.
 
After 10 post I can send all the links and photos to West Asia or North Africa scattered throughout the several continents Asia, Africa, North America, South America, Europe, and Australia found at level amongst all Indigenous Aboriginal of not only Europe, but it's ancient everywhere not only Europe it Himalaya.
 
is the view of Gareth Henson, administrator of the Haplogroup T project at FTDNA: "I think both T and L originated in the Iraq/Iran region but whereas the branches of L all went in different directions I don't see a similar pattern for T. The main groups are T1a and T1b. Both seem to have spread out together, but T1a shows more variation."
 
The worldwide distribution of haplogroup T is spotty with some small areas of greater-than-average concentrations. T1a has a more southerly bias from the Near East to Europe and North Africa. T1b has a more northernly bias from the Near East through the Russian plains to Northern Europe.
 
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