Turkey's case shows why Japan could not be a EU member (if it were in Europe)

How would Austrian far right politicians compare to far right politicians in the US? Think of Frist, Hastert, etc... or are there further right politicians in the US? Are the ones in Austria just right-leaning socialists? I have no idea...
 
Miss_apollo7 said:
Turkey still has a very long road towards EU.
That's true. Even if they are accepted as candidate, the whole process may take 15 years.

Fantt said:
Once a country is in the EU, can it be expelled easily?
Good question! For what I know the treaty can only be cancelled in mutual agreement. If a country wants to leave, all members have to agree. No country can be expelled, only their membership in the council can be suspended. According to the new constitution countries have the right to leave, though.
 
Miss_apollo7 said:
The ruling party in Turkey is not the military, but an Islamic party, which took office as governing party and won the majority of seats in the Parliament by a landslide election in 2002 I think, but I am no expert... :?

Well the Turkish Military is the strongest branch of the Turkish state. They are a secular group well organized and discplined that keeps the country in chek and on track from destabilizing factors such as the influence of Islam on the State, and the separatist movements fromt he Kurdish minority. So basically, the Turkish military, has before come in and thrown out of power a gov. that they have believed to be damaging to the Country, and have installed another party as the ruling gov. This though only on rare occasions. The Turkish military is basically the main organization that keeps the country in track with the vision of Ataturk, the founder of the modern Turkish state.

Miss_apollo7 said:
The road to the European Union for Turkey is very long in my opinion, but it seems that history has shown that Turkey has always aimed to become a member of the European family, although Turkey is VERY different culturally from the European nations:

I don't really think that is so. I don't beleive that Turkey is very different culturally from other European nations. The ottoman empire was a formidable power for quite some time in the the Balkan area of Europe, therefore all those countries that were once part of the Ottoman Empire heave been heavily influenced by Turkey and vice versa. Many of the new applicant countries are very similar culturally to Turkey, and even Greece, a member of the EU, is very very similar culturally to Turkey. Not only because they were a part of the Ottoman Empire, but also because through out all their past interactions in history, be it war or traade, Greece and Turkey have exchanged about 50% of their genes with each other.

Miss_apollo7 said:
For example, with the fall of the Osman Empire after WW1, Kemal Ataturk with the foundation of the Turkish Republic in 1923 introduced Roman letters, made it forbidden for women to cover their hair and introducing a secular state

Yes, Ataturk was quite a remarkable individual. He made a the Turkish State in a time where the Western Powers were ripping it and the area apart.

Miss_apollo7 said:
Turkey is culturally very different from many European countries, especially ideologically still.

As I said above, culturally not so, but Ideoligally perhaps. The biggest difference between Turkey and the other European countries that I see, is that they are the only one with such a large majority that is muslim.

Miss_apollo7 said:
In Turkey, there is a (state-)ideology which is about putting the interests of the Turkish state before anything else, including human rights.
For generations, many police-officers and other people with authority to torture people, have been educated that collective security is the highest priority.
The AKP-government denies that torture is going on, but according to Amnesty International and the Turkish Human Rights Association (HRA), it still is a reality for many people in Turkey, to be exact, 700 people in 2004 so far. http://www.ihd.org.tr/eindex.html
I have read that the government is already re-educating police etc in the? right? conduct without torture. But in my opinion, it will be a great and difficult challenge, as it is difficult in practice to make sure the (new) law (we don?t know if it will be enacted yet) is enforced and ?obeyed??.

The EU is great at pointing Human Rights abuses left and right, where they want to that is. Sometimes I really love the hypocracy of the Western European countries. After the fall of the Berlin wall, most of the Western European goverments, have dealt with former communits in the Eastern Block countries, at times have even supported their governments just because they were doing what would be advantagous to the West. The West kept in power in the East the social class and many many individuals for for 40 years opprossed their nations with brute force, and with human rights abuses which don't even compare to the present day allegations to the Turkish state. Also, Greece, member of the EU is also a vialtor of human and minority rights, yet I don't see the EU preaching to them. Even worse, the EU is now begining to recycycle Libya as an acceptable country and now Khadafi has even come to some European capitals and meet European leaders just because he is now doing what again is good to the West. I am a realist and I realize that sometime contradicting actions are necessary and may be the only way, but to preach one thing to someone and to turn the blind eye to the others is not very, well, morally acceptable.
 
Yes, there is some truth in what you say, of course. But still, present day, if Turkey wishes to join the EU, some criterias have to be fulfilled, as decided long ago. But as I see it, they are already there, or very close. And about being hypocritical, there are countries having a far worse track record when it comes to that. At least we're moving in the right direction, me thinks.

Also, I think Turkey would be a great link between Mid East and Europe, which it in some ways already is.

Oh, and about Libya.. Giving up nuclear arms is definietly a great step in the right direction. Not only for "the west", but for the whole world. IMHO.

:)
 
Miss_apollo7 said:
In Turkey, there is a (state-)ideology which is about putting the interests of the Turkish state before anything else, including human rights.

Mmh, I'd say yet another similarity with Japan. Japan's human rights abuses are now more directed to prison treatments, police abuse (21-day secluded detention and interrogation without evidence) human trafficking (of sex slaves), teenage or children prostitution and refusal to give political asylum to some people. But in the first part of the 20th century (even during the US occupation), it was usual for the government to conduct witch hunts against communists, socialists, anarchists and even liberals, devious religious cults (such as the Omotokyo Shinto sect) or anti-monarchists. The pre-WWII Japanese police has a particularily bad record for fighting against trade unions for the count of the company directors (resulting in the death of workers several times), cracking down on leftists or even murdering hundreds of innocent Koreans after the 1923 Kanto Earthquake.

Everything was done for the good of the state, regardless of human rights.
 
Fantt said:
How would Austrian far right politicians compare to far right politicians in the US? Think of Frist, Hastert, etc... or are there further right politicians in the US? Are the ones in Austria just right-leaning socialists? I have no idea...

I have never heard about those US politicians.

Anyway, here's some information :
http://encyclozine.com/Austrian_Freedom_Party

and about the lifting of European sanctions against Austria (september 2000):
http://www.rnw.nl/hotspots/html/ec000913.html
 

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