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Genetic study The origin and legacy of the Etruscans through a 2000-year archeogenomic time transec

Jovialis said:
Let's take a look at 5 of the 6 samples. (I don't seem to have ETR016)

These people are mostly C6, with only one sample being C5, and the other being a North African-mixed outlier.

Maybe if this study bothered to examine the genetic variation of the so-called Imperial cluster, they would see that C6 was present in the Iron age. Two even matches close to R437, for God sake!

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH]C.Italy_Imperial:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_262-424CE:TAQ021[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3.65334094[/TD]
[TD]C6_Iron_Age_Mediterranean:R437_(Latin_Prenestini_Tribe)_Palestrina_Selicata[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4.97456531[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R52_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5.18260552[/TD]
[TD]C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R131_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5.70495399[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R56_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6.04666024[/TD]
[TD]C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R35_Celio[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6.28720129[/TD]
[TD]C5_Late_Antiquity_Eastern_Mediterranean:R122_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6.57902728[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R59_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6.65725920[/TD]
[TD]C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R107_Crypta_Balbi[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6.71589160[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R1290_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6.98328003[/TD]
[TD]C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R49_Centocelle_Necropolis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7.02547507[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R65_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7.26534239[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R58_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7.33377802[/TD]
[TD]C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R113_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7.65644173[/TD]
[TD]C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R836_Civitanova_Marche[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7.96656764[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R973_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8.01634580[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R57_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8.20192660[/TD]
[TD]C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R117_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8.33453058[/TD]
[TD]C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R118_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8.54786523[/TD]
[TD]C5_Late_Antiquity_Eastern_Mediterranean:R32_Mausole_di_Augusto[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8.69293966[/TD]
[TD]C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R137_Marcellino_&_Pietro[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8.70378653[/TD]
[TD]C5_Late_Antiquity_Eastern_Mediterranean:R30_Mausole_di_Augusto[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8.72009174[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R969_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8.73635508[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R53_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8.78846972[/TD]
[TD]C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R47_Centocelle_Necropolis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8.91677072[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R1283_Cancelleria[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH]C.Italy_Imperial:Tarquinia(Viterbo_Lazio)_89-236CE:TAQ020[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4.22571887[/TD]
[TD]C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R36_Celio[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4.31196011[/TD]
[TD]C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R111_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5.71508530[/TD]
[TD]C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R120_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6.04187885[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R1283_Cancelleria[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6.30849427[/TD]
[TD]C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R118_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6.36097477[/TD]
[TD]C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R835_Civitanova_Marche[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6.41825521[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R1287_Cancelleria[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6.51541250[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R970_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6.83435440[/TD]
[TD]C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R113_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6.93213531[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R1285_Cancelleria[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7.00451997[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R969_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7.12097606[/TD]
[TD]C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R121_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7.76882230[/TD]
[TD]C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R836_Civitanova_Marche[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8.44433538[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R52_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8.45839819[/TD]
[TD]C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R1549_Monterotondo[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8.71862374[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R60_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8.80415243[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R1290_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9.27257785[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R973_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9.40364291[/TD]
[TD]C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R131_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9.58771610[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R54_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9.69825758[/TD]
[TD]C7_Iron_Age_European:R1_(Protovillanovan)_Martinsicuro[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9.83711340[/TD]
[TD]C5_Late_Antiquity_Eastern_Mediterranean:R122_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9.94152403[/TD]
[TD]C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R117_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10.02607600[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R56_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10.34189054[/TD]
[TD]C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R49_Centocelle_Necropolis[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH]C.Italy_Imperial:Marsilianad'Albegna(Grosseto_Tuscany)_400-530CE:MAS003[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7.72047278[/TD]
[TD]C3_Iron_Age_N_African/Euro-Mix:R475_(Etruscan)_Civitavecchia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8.71365021[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R52_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8.89276672[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R1287_Cancelleria[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9.07572587[/TD]
[TD]C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R118_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9.62520130[/TD]
[TD]C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R120_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9.93343344[/TD]
[TD]C6_Iron_Age_Mediterranean:R437_(Latin_Prenestini_Tribe)_Palestrina_Selicata[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10.17619772[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R1283_Cancelleria[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10.30015048[/TD]
[TD]C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R113_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10.30794354[/TD]
[TD]C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R35_Celio[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10.45892442[/TD]
[TD]C5_Late_Antiquity_Eastern_Mediterranean:R122_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10.58182876[/TD]
[TD]C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R835_Civitanova_Marche[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10.58912650[/TD]
[TD]C3_Imperial_North_African:R80_Viale_Rossini_Necropolis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10.72016791[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R1285_Cancelleria[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10.76918753[/TD]
[TD]C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R47_Centocelle_Necropolis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10.82503118[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R56_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.26164730[/TD]
[TD]C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R107_Crypta_Balbi[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.38913956[/TD]
[TD]C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R111_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.47918116[/TD]
[TD]C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R36_Celio[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.57820366[/TD]
[TD]C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R131_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.66526039[/TD]
[TD]C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R45_Isola_Sacra_Necropolis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.79233649[/TD]
[TD]C5_Late_Antiquity_Eastern_Mediterranean:R32_Mausole_di_Augusto[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.82417862[/TD]
[TD]C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R121_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12.06321682[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R969_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12.10252866[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R1290_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12.33378287[/TD]
[TD]C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R117_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH]C.Italy_Imperial:Marsilianad'Albegna(Grosseto_Tuscany)_240-380CE:MAS002[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2.96464163[/TD]
[TD]C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R81_Viale_Rossini_Necropolis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4.41155301[/TD]
[TD]C4_Imperial_Near_Eastern:R41_Isola_Sacra_Necropolis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4.43072229[/TD]
[TD]C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R134_Marcellino_&_Pietro[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4.49097985[/TD]
[TD]C5_Late_Antiquity_Eastern_Mediterranean:R34_Mausole_di_Augusto[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5.13506572[/TD]
[TD]C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R115_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5.33598163[/TD]
[TD]C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R66_ANAS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5.45977106[/TD]
[TD]C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R133_Marcellino_&_Pietro[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5.51823341[/TD]
[TD]C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R1545_Necropolis_of_Monte_Agnese[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5.83553768[/TD]
[TD]C5_Iron_Age_Eastern_Mediterranean:R850_(Latini)_Ardea[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5.91614740[/TD]
[TD]C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R1543_Necropolis_of_Monte_Agnese[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5.96332961[/TD]
[TD]C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R123_Casale_del_Dolce[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6.16414633[/TD]
[TD]C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R39_Isola_Sacra_Necropolis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6.17226863[/TD]
[TD]C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R50_Centocelle_Necropolis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6.54462375[/TD]
[TD]C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R40_Isola_Sacra_Necropolis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6.85520970[/TD]
[TD]C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R51_Centocelle_Necropolis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7.11766816[/TD]
[TD]C4_Imperial_Near_Eastern:R73_ANAS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7.13604232[/TD]
[TD]C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R1548_Monterotondo[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7.20874469[/TD]
[TD]C4_Imperial_Near_Eastern:R75_Viale_Rossini_Necropolis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7.60957949[/TD]
[TD]C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R130_Marcellino_&_Pietro[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7.64296408[/TD]
[TD]C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R114_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7.67714791[/TD]
[TD]C5_Imperial_Eastern_Mediterranean:R72_ANAS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8.11841733[/TD]
[TD]C5_Late_Antiquity_Eastern_Mediterranean:R30_Mausole_di_Augusto[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8.52355560[/TD]
[TD]C4_Imperial_Near_Eastern:R70_ANAS[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8.78526038[/TD]
[TD]C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R137_Marcellino_&_Pietro[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9.15473102[/TD]
[TD]C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R136_Marcellino_&_Pietro[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH]ETR001[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3.08917465[/TD]
[TD]C6_Iron_Age_Mediterranean:R437_(Latin_Prenestini_Tribe)_Palestrina_Selicata[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3.12755496[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R52_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4.03565360[/TD]
[TD]C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R131_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4.13444071[/TD]
[TD]C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R113_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4.93768164[/TD]
[TD]C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R117_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5.00859262[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R56_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5.05356310[/TD]
[TD]C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R118_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5.56285898[/TD]
[TD]C5_Late_Antiquity_Eastern_Mediterranean:R122_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6.02139519[/TD]
[TD]C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R836_Civitanova_Marche[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6.29034975[/TD]
[TD]C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R47_Centocelle_Necropolis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6.51112126[/TD]
[TD]C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R49_Centocelle_Necropolis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6.52214689[/TD]
[TD]C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R835_Civitanova_Marche[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6.66137373[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R1290_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6.98725983[/TD]
[TD]C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R35_Celio[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7.02551777[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R973_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7.25305453[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R65_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7.88702098[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R64_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7.93834366[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R969_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8.01208462[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R54_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8.17496789[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R1283_Cancelleria[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8.30575704[/TD]
[TD]C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R120_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8.45656550[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R57_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8.47171765[/TD]
[TD]C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R111_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8.53086748[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R59_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8.58506261[/TD]
[TD]C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R137_Marcellino_&_Pietro[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Click to expand...

This is the problem with doing averages. One or two extreme outliers can throw everything off, using the wrong reference sample for North African ancestry is another problem and just amplifies the error. Why the heck would an author who has worked with Reich and is supervised by Krause not realize that? What would happen if the outlier wasn't included? What if they used a different reference for North African?

Plus, what is that graph in the supplement all about? It shows a big change happened not before the Early Middle Ages, but after it, and the biggest change was an increase in Iran Neo, while steppe stayed about the same. How the heck could that have happened? Nowhere do they explain it. Why didn't they look at the yDna to see if their modeling made sense? There has to be some rough correlation or it doesn't make sense.

Did it not occur to them to try using only the Imperial samples who weren't extreme outliers and see if the subsequent modeling provided better fits?

Etruscan paper graph based on qpAdm from supplement.jpg

I see no common sense, no attention to detail. We know more about these samples than Posth does.

It makes me doubt even the Reich Lab and Lazaridis. Whatever is most politically convenient is the way they'll go.
 
Angela said:
This is the problem with doing averages. One or two extreme outliers can throw everything off, using the wrong reference sample for North African ancestry is another problem and just amplifies the error. Why the heck would an author who has worked with Reich and is supervised by Krause not realize that? What would happen if the outlier wasn't included? What if they used a different reference for North African?

Plus, what is that graph in the supplement all about? It shows a big change happened not before the Early Middle Ages, but after it, and the biggest change was an increase in Iran Neo, while steppe stayed about the same. How the heck could that have happened? Nowhere do they explain it. Why didn't they look at the yDna to see if their modeling made sense? There has to be some rough correlation or it doesn't make sense.

Did it not occur to them to try using only the Imperial samples who weren't extreme outliers and see if the subsequent modeling provided better fits?

View attachment 12974

I see no common sense, no attention to detail. We know more about these samples than Posth does.

It makes me doubt even the Reich Lab and Lazaridis. Whatever is most politically convenient is the way they'll go.
Click to expand...

Variation of Ancestry in Posth et al. 2021's Imperial C. Italy cluster (eupedia.com)
 
Pax Augusta said:
Hard to say, urnfielders practiced incineration, there will always be a shortage of data for the final bronze. Although J2b2-L283 seems to have remained a unicum, for me it arrived during the Protovillanovan in the Etruscans. And we have to wait for the analysis of the Italics and all that. Basically there is still a lack of data for a very large part of Iron Age Italy.
Click to expand...

It doesn't look so. We have far more J2b2 among Nuragics than Etruscans. So that means the flow was not via Urnfield but from Eastern Adriatic => Western Adriatic => Tyrrhenian Sea.
 
Hawk said:
It doesn't look so. We have far more J2b2 among Nuragics than Etruscans. So that means the flow was not via Urnfield but from Eastern Adriatic => Western Adriatic => Tyrrhenian Sea.
Click to expand...

Nuragics have not the same J2b2 as the Etruscan one.
 
I have a feeling that once we "discover" Northern Italy completely the Germanic and the Imperial Roman percentages in Tuscany will decrease and fall accordingly to Y-DNA.

Probably it has to do internal movement in Italian kingdoms. That's why Abruzzo is closer to Basilicata than to Lazio.
 
Does someone want to tell me that my similarity to Italic and Etruscan samples is a mere coincidence, and/or the result of some complicated, convoluted history of massive admixture from the Levant specifically, plus some 20% Germanic (neither of which could possibly have happened if you look at the yDna of Toscana and Emilia and Liguria, my ancestral areas), and not that I'm actually descended from them?

My K12b ancient results: I'm about half-Tuscan like and half Emilia/Romagna
Distance to:Angela
5.04939600MOK17A:Zegarac_2021
5.96391650I8475:Olalde_2019
6.06853360Croatia_LBA:I3313:Mathieson_2018
6.10643922Via_Paisiello_Necropolis_Imperial_Rome:R111:Antonio_2019
6.11085919C6-Cancelleria_MA:R1287:Antonio_2019
6.16497364C6-Cancelleria_MA:R1285:Antonio_2019
6.36923857Szolad43:Amorim_2018
6.39419268ETR010:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
6.66446547TAQ022:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
6.71269692Bulgaria_EBA:I2176:Mathieson_2018
6.86863888Vucedol:I3499:Mathieson_2018
7.09575930I1979:Olalde_2018
7.26718653POP001:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
7.33042973Bulgaria_EBA:I2175:Mathieson_2018
7.66150116MA2197:Damgaard_2018
7.69315930Collegno36:Amorim_2018
7.90459993MOK31:Zegarac_2021
8.05195628VET001:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
8.13190630Scythian:scy197:Krzewinska_2018_(Oct)
8.26525257TAQ006:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
8.33593426TAQ020:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
8.36580540Armenoi_Crete:I9123:Lazaridis_2017
8.39610029Szolad28:Amorim_2018
8.80221563Hungary_BA:I7041:Olalde_2018
8.83255342Bulgaria_EBA:Bul6:Mathieson_2018

Mok 17A is a sample from Early Bronze Age Maros culture in northern Serbia. It was an infant girl. I couldn’t find an autosomal breakdown for her, but the group as a whole seems to have been a combination of a bit of Iron Gates HG, Anatolian farmer, and steppe, the latter ranging from what looks to be about 25% to maybe 40%.
Distance to:MOK17A:Zegarac_2021
4.55975877Italian_Romagna
4.86831593Italian_Tuscany
5.84622819Italian_Marche
6.07696470Italian_Emilia
6.50433701Italian_Liguria
6.89936954Italian_Lazio
8.70247666Italian_Lombardy
9.95629951Italian_Piedmont
9.97372548Italian_Veneto
10.24577474Albanian
11.18326428Albanian_Kosovo
11.29554780Italian_Abruzzo
11.37092345Greek_Thessaly
11.47845808Greek_Thrace
12.18874891Greek_Central
12.27333288Italian_Friuli_VG
12.32099834Greek_Athens
12.52025409Swiss_Italian
12.53549760Macedonian_South
12.57526540Greek_Thessaloniki
12.59586837Greek_Peloponnese
12.83987928Macedonian_Vardar
13.25793347Italian_Campania
13.50141844Italian_Apulia
13.55413221Italian_Trentino

18475 is a 2nd century AD Italian found in Empuries
Distance to:I8475:Olalde_2019
5.50402580Italian_Liguria
6.36328531Italian_Emilia
6.74143902Italian_Tuscany
7.01267424Italian_Lombardy
7.79796127Italian_Piedmont
8.50914214Italian_Romagna
9.16421846Italian_Veneto
9.93606562Spanish_Canarias
10.10349259Swiss_Italian
10.76134583Italian_Marche
10.93044830Portuguese
11.32834498Italian_Lazio
11.48679242Italian_Trentino
11.57619540Spanish_Baleares
11.59462807Italian_Friuli_VG
12.08391493Spanish_Castilla-Leon
12.57920506Italian_Aosta_Valley
12.80807558Spanish_Valencia
13.88474703Spanish_Andalusia
14.17907613Spanish_Galicia
14.19793295Spanish_Catalonia
15.06820162Albanian_Kosovo
15.09009940Spanish_Aragon
15.44267140Spanish_Asturias
15.49734816Albanian

C6 MACancelleria Sample 1287:
Distance to:C6-Cancelleria_MA:R1287:Antonio_2019
4.91198779Italian_Marche
5.17242690Italian_Romagna
6.39025039Italian_Lazio
6.40369425Italian_Tuscany
7.91189611Italian_Emilia
8.40096423Italian_Liguria
9.54382523Italian_Abruzzo
10.78050555Albanian
10.90943170Italian_Lombardy
11.17442616Italian_Campania
11.69785450Greek_Central
11.75980442Greek_Athens
12.01492821Italian_Piedmont
12.05536395Greek_Thrace
12.11379792Greek_Thessaly
12.16986442Italian_Sicily
12.19442906Italian_Apulia
12.22591510Italian_Veneto
12.53755160Albanian_Kosovo
12.63317458Greek_Peloponnese
13.17392500Greek_Thessaloniki
13.77700258Greek_Foca
14.00665913Macedonian_South
14.03550854Greek_Lemnos
14.30139853Italian_Calabria

C6 MACancelleria Sample 1285:
Distance to:C6-Cancelleria_MA:R1285:Antonio_2019
5.72900515Italian_Romagna
5.73315655Italian_Marche
6.52571835Italian_Tuscany
7.24332796Italian_Lazio
7.99996250Italian_Emilia
8.58218504Italian_Liguria
10.37350953Italian_Abruzzo
10.86359057Italian_Lombardy
11.23258652Albanian
11.75992772Italian_Campania
12.19704882Italian_Piedmont
12.21777803Greek_Central
12.26144771Greek_Athens
12.42072864Italian_Veneto
12.51855822Greek_Thrace
12.59846816Greek_Thessaly
12.83907707Albanian_Kosovo
12.90282915Italian_Apulia
13.07107876Italian_Sicily
13.08823900Greek_Peloponnese
13.64990110Greek_Thessaloniki
14.29335860Greek_Foca
14.38501999Macedonian_South
14.58299009Greek_Lemnos
14.63331131Italian_Friuli_VG

Etruscan 010:
Distance to:ETR010:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
5.26141084Italian_Marche
5.52515158Italian_Romagna
6.59193447Italian_Tuscany
6.84526113Italian_Lazio
8.15754865Italian_Emilia
8.87920605Italian_Liguria
9.69074301Italian_Abruzzo
10.99793617Albanian
11.10661515Italian_Campania
11.19838381Italian_Lombardy
11.75719780Greek_Central
11.84891134Greek_Athens
12.31078795Greek_Thrace
12.36642228Italian_Apulia
12.45418002Greek_Thessaly
12.45619525Italian_Piedmont
12.49764378Italian_Sicily
12.64545373Italian_Veneto
12.79305671Albanian_Kosovo
12.86448600Greek_Peloponnese
13.48138717Greek_Thessaloniki
13.77371047Greek_Foca
14.07704514Greek_Lemnos
14.38395286Italian_Calabria
14.40058332Macedonian_South

Etruscan Taq22
Distance to:TAQ022:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
3.91677163Italian_Romagna
4.62531339Italian_Marche
5.07221845Italian_Lazio
5.31941726Italian_Tuscany
6.52240753Italian_Emilia
7.29891088Italian_Liguria
8.50792572Albanian
9.38618133Greek_Thessaly
9.51462558Greek_Thrace
9.63508173Italian_Lombardy
9.63739073Italian_Abruzzo
9.64062757Albanian_Kosovo
9.79988265Italian_Veneto
10.10194041Italian_Piedmont
10.31402443Greek_Central
10.57133861Greek_Peloponnese
10.66870189Greek_Thessaloniki
10.69634050Greek_Athens
10.98788424Macedonian_South
11.09392627Macedonian_Vardar
11.64879393Italian_Apulia
11.87412313Italian_Friuli_VG
11.88772476Bulgarian_Thrace
12.13292215Greek_Macedonia
12.21442999Italian_Campania

Imperial Rome R111 is closest to modern Italians from the Romagna, so that “combination” already existed during the Imperial period. It didn’t need Germanic invaders to create it.
Distance to:Via_Paisiello_Necropolis_Imperial_Rome:R111:Antonio_2019
4.37268796Italian_Romagna
4.52567122Italian_Tuscany
5.34800374Italian_Marche
6.02374468Italian_Emilia
6.60205271Italian_Lazio
6.97389418Italian_Liguria
9.43665725Italian_Lombardy
10.32837354Italian_Piedmont
10.64679294Italian_Abruzzo
10.91365200Italian_Veneto
11.46594523Albanian
12.24593810Greek_Thrace
12.31293223Greek_Thessaly
12.37012530Albanian_Kosovo
12.44505524Greek_Central
12.52507086Italian_Campania
12.85758920Greek_Athens
13.07603533Italian_Friuli_VG
13.23058956Italian_Apulia
13.23207089Greek_Peloponnese
13.53561090Swiss_Italian
13.62172529Italian_Sicily
13.74291454Greek_Thessaloniki
13.76111551Macedonian_South
14.09203676Macedonian_Vardar

11979 is Bell Beaker from Parma, Northern Italy. Strangely, I’m at a distance of 7, much closer than any other Italians. Is it because of my father’s isolated ancestry from the Apennines south of Parma? I wonder how close he would have been.
Distance to:I1979:Olalde_2018
9.15438146Italian_Lombardy
9.36782792Italian_Liguria
9.72487018Italian_Emilia
9.86970618Italian_Tuscany
11.69194595Italian_Romagna
11.71190420Italian_Piedmont
11.90674441Swiss_Italian
12.23369118Italian_Veneto
13.63891858Italian_Trentino
13.84391939Italian_Marche
14.74565699Spanish_Baleares
14.84070416Italian_Friuli_VG
14.90914820Italian_Lazio
15.53721661Italian_Aosta_Valley
15.71857182Spanish_Castilla-Leon
15.83608853Spanish_Valencia
16.32088233Portuguese
16.58355209Spanish_Catalonia
16.77931167Spanish_Canarias
17.11851921Spanish_Andalusia
17.32825438Albanian_Kosovo
17.40040804Spanish_Aragon
17.40597886Albanian
17.98685909Spanish_Galicia
18.09251226Spanish_Cantabria

Etruscan Pop 001
Distance to:POP001:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
3.07801884Italian_Romagna
3.76601965Italian_Marche
4.61182177Italian_Lazio
4.93802592Italian_Tuscany
6.51759925Italian_Emilia
7.36691251Italian_Liguria
7.92328846Albanian
9.07261814Italian_Abruzzo
9.13163731Greek_Thrace
9.18683297Greek_Thessaly
9.32396911Albanian_Kosovo
9.55951882Greek_Central
9.78331232Greek_Athens
9.78831446Italian_Lombardy
10.18865546Greek_Peloponnese
10.30602736Italian_Veneto
10.35960907Greek_Thessaloniki
10.53922673Italian_Piedmont
10.91831031Macedonian_South
11.12040917Italian_Apulia
11.32484878Italian_Campania
11.38471344Macedonian_Vardar
11.99846240Bulgarian_Thrace
12.14471490Greek_Macedonia
12.15691161Italian_Friuli_VG

MA 2197 is a Hungarian, or European Scythian.
Distance to:MA2197:Damgaard_2018
9.97781038Italian_Tuscany
10.06852025Italian_Emilia
10.22724303Italian_Lombardy
10.23013196Italian_Liguria
10.55425033Italian_Romagna
11.30951812Italian_Veneto
12.20009426Italian_Piedmont
12.22333604Italian_Marche
12.79291259Swiss_Italian
12.88560825Italian_Lazio
13.21657671Albanian
13.64027126Albanian_Kosovo
13.87365489Italian_Trentino
13.93937230Italian_Friuli_VG
14.66592309Macedonian_Vardar
14.76487386Greek_Thessaly
14.80561718Macedonian_South
14.99649292Greek_Thrace
15.38337739Macedonian_East
15.42735557Greek_Macedonia
15.48533823Greek_Thessaloniki
16.20610687Macedonian_Polog
16.22580661Greek_Athens
16.33045009Greek_Central
16.38869122Macedonian_Northeast&Skopje

Etruscan Vet001
Distance to:VET001:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
4.82312140Italian_Lombardy
6.19209678Swiss_Italian
6.30357042Italian_Liguria
6.75784729Italian_Piedmont
7.39512677Italian_Emilia
7.63998691Italian_Veneto
8.06459546Italian_Trentino
8.62826170Italian_Tuscany
8.75213117Spanish_Baleares
9.27474528Italian_Aosta_Valley
10.00591825Portuguese
10.09055499Italian_Friuli_VG
10.10696295Spanish_Castilla-Leon
10.44944496Spanish_Valencia
10.87392753Spanish_Canarias
11.15032735Spanish_Catalonia
11.25371050Italian_Romagna
12.08900740Spanish_Andalusia
12.17343419Spanish_Galicia
12.61313601Spanish_Aragon
13.01853294Spanish_Cantabria
14.09290602Spanish_Asturias
14.35757584Italian_Marche
14.80557665Italian_Lazio
15.32225832Spanish_La_Rioja

Etruscan Taq 006
Distance to:TAQ006:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
6.73755891Italian_Lombardy
7.66617326Swiss_Italian
8.55755806Italian_Liguria
8.60754320Italian_Veneto
8.76263088Italian_Piedmont
9.21654491Italian_Trentino
9.23681222Italian_Emilia
10.37473373Italian_Tuscany
10.49120108Italian_Aosta_Valley
10.59357352Spanish_Baleares
11.44345665Italian_Friuli_VG
12.22221338Spanish_Castilla-Leon
12.29539751Portuguese
12.40773549Spanish_Valencia
12.61312015Italian_Romagna
12.80642026Spanish_Catalonia
13.41544259Spanish_Canarias
14.01009993Spanish_Galicia
14.05980441Spanish_Andalusia
14.07533303Spanish_Aragon
14.33531304Spanish_Cantabria
15.54784564Italian_Marche
15.94503685Spanish_Asturias
15.95680106Italian_Lazio
15.96321709Macedonian_Vardar

Etruscan Taq020
Distance to:TAQ020:Etruscan_Pre-Print_2021
4.06915028Italian_Marche
4.20366507Italian_Romagna
4.54747183Italian_Lazio
5.76726105Italian_Tuscany
7.15027971Italian_Emilia
8.44505773Italian_Liguria
8.47549409Italian_Abruzzo
9.23949674Albanian
9.73216317Greek_Thrace
9.81759645Greek_Central
9.84473971Greek_Thessaly
10.43153872Albanian_Kosovo
10.58639693Greek_Athens
10.61476801Greek_Peloponnese
10.71278208Italian_Apulia
10.88945821Italian_Lombardy
10.96757494Italian_Piedmont
11.00167260Italian_Veneto
11.11579957Italian_Campania
11.26824299Greek_Thessaloniki
11.76737014Italian_Sicily
11.85914415Macedonian_South
11.97643102Macedonian_Vardar
12.01981281Greek_Lemnos
12.12501959Bulgarian_Thrace

Do you see how many of these samples were found on Italian soil, specifically, many of them, in the areas from which my ancestry stems? Some of the others may not be my ancestors, but they represent populations similar to the ones which indeed came to Italy, or in some cases, departed from Italy, like the Empuries sample.

If I'm descended from populations like Balkans Bronze Age, I'm also descended from the Italics and the Etruscans, especially because I'm Tuscan and Emilian, areas where Italic and Etruscan samples can be found (we've yet to see the Emilian ones).

It defies common sense to deny it.
 
ihype02 said:
They are pre-Moorish era samples. It seems that the Moorish impact was greater in Iberia than in Southern Italy and Sicily.
How do those samples fit the scenario?
Click to expand...

No, they are not pre-Moorish era samples. They are modern people samples, and the impact of the "Moorish" genetics on modern Iberians is very small: only 5% - 6% and not in all Iberia (north-eastern Spain and Basque Country appears to have received no genetic influx from North Africa). Thus, the modern Iberians seem to be the modern populations genetically closest to the ancient Etruscans. Why, is still a mystery (perhaps the Roman expansion played a decisive role in that).
 
Just_a_Common_Guy said:
Perhaps this shows that the expansion of Indo-European languages in Europe was a much more complex process than the simplistic theory of the horsemen of the pontic steppe.
Click to expand...

To say the least!:awesome:
 
Just_a_Common_Guy said:
Thus, the modern Iberians seem to be the modern populations genetically closest to the ancient Etruscans. Why, is still a mystery (perhaps the Roman expansion played a decisive role in that).
Click to expand...

Because the Iberians have more or less the same EEF, WHG, Yamnaya ratio of the Etruscans, not because they descend directly from them

Inviato dal mio M2101K9G utilizzando Tapatalk
 
Cato said:
Because the Iberians have more or less the same EEF, WHG, Yamnaya ratio of the Etruscans, not because they descend directly from them

Inviato dal mio M2101K9G utilizzando Tapatalk
Click to expand...

This is a concept which a lot of people find difficult to comprehend. It's like when the Albanians get upset because northern Italians are often closer autosomally to Balkans Bronze Age and perhaps even Iron Age, than they are. It doesn't mean Northern Italians descend from those samples in the Balkans. The proportions may be similar but that's it.

Plus, not all the Etruscans are closest to Spaniards. If they were I wouldn't get the results I get. You have to look at each of the samples individually.
 
Just_a_Common_Guy said:
No, they are not pre-Moorish era samples. They are modern people samples, and the impact of the "Moorish" genetics on modern Iberians is very small: only 5% - 6% and not in all Iberia (north-eastern Spain and Basque Country appears to have received no genetic influx from North Africa). Thus, the modern Iberians seem to be the modern populations genetically closest to the ancient Etruscans. Why, is still a mystery (perhaps the Roman expansion played a decisive role in that).
Click to expand...
Venosa samples are Early Medieval samples that pre-date the Moorish era. They are not moderns.
 
ihype02 said:
Venosa samples are Early Medieval samples that pre-date the Moorish era. They are not moderns.
Click to expand...

ihype02: Correct, the Muslims were expelled from Sicily during Norman rule around 1245 to Lucera in Puglia and other areas in Southern mainland Italy (Campania; Calabria), about 60K which was pretty much the entire Muslim population, about 20K of those 60K were sent to Lucera. Those Basilicata samples from 600-800 AD represent a population that pre-dates any Saracen (Abbasids) presence due to the invasion in Sicily in 827 AD with the entire Island under Muslim rule by 902. By 1028, a combine Byzantine and Norman alliance actually invaded and took over Messina in the East but Muslims counter offensive got it back by around 1040. In 1060 the Normans in full force came in 1060 and the Native Sicilians rose up and rebelled against the Muslims and of course Normans would take over Sicily in total by 1091.

In this context, those Basilicata samples represent a Southern Italian population before the Muslim_Saracen era. Below are the distances for all the Regions from the old Kingdom of Naples/Two Sicilies and Lazio. All of the Southern Regions (moderns) have some close distances to many of those Basilicata samples from 600-800 AD along with the 2 most Southern Italian Shifted Republican Romans (R437; R850). Lazio does as well but I think we all agree that modern Lazio might be a little more Southern Shifted than what it was during the Republican Roman period. My distances are also included

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]Italian_Sicily[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #46FF00, align: right"]3.40978005[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE:VEN015[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #51FF00, align: right"]3.98852103[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE:VEN013[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #6AFF00, align: right"]5.21448943[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE:VEN016[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #6FFF00, align: right"]5.44355582[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_650-763CE:VEN006[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #81FF00, align: right"]6.34406810[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_650-763CE:VEN005[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #85FF00, align: right"]6.53940364[/TD]
[TD]C6_Iron_Age_Mediterranean:R437_(Latin_Prenestini_Tribe)_Palestrina_Selicata[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #85FF00, align: right"]6.54193396[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_650-800CE:VEN001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #B8FF00, align: right"]9.03699618[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE:VEN012[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #CDFF00, align: right"]10.04992537[/TD]
[TD]C5_Iron_Age_Eastern_Mediterranean:R850_(Latini)_Ardea[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #D7FF00, align: right"]10.52835695[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa_related:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_660-766CE:VEN009[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFA00, align: right"]12.72435853[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa_related:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE:VEN017[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFCA00, align: right"]15.10643240[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa_related:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE:VEN021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFC700, align: right"]15.23646284[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE:VEN018[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFAB00, align: right"]16.63026157[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_660-766CE:VEN008[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF9E00, align: right"]17.27331178[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE:VEN014[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF4000, align: right"]21.88679511[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa_related:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE:VEN022[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF2B00, align: right"]22.86872537[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa_related:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE:VEN010[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #CC00FF, align: right"]40.01186824[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa_VEN002:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_650-800CE:VEN002
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]Italian_Lazio[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #75FF00, align: right"]5.71401785[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_650-800CE:VEN001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #8EFF00, align: right"]6.96973457[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_650-763CE:VEN006[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #90FF00, align: right"]7.05718074[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE:VEN013[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #A6FF00, align: right"]8.15304238[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE:VEN015[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #B1FF00, align: right"]8.66774480[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE:VEN016[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #B2FF00, align: right"]8.74135001[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa_related:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE:VEN017[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #C5FF00, align: right"]9.63911303[/TD]
[TD]C6_Iron_Age_Mediterranean:R437_(Latin_Prenestini_Tribe)_Palestrina_Selicata[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #CFFF00, align: right"]10.13033563[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_650-763CE:VEN005[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #D6FF00, align: right"]10.49089129[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa_related:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_660-766CE:VEN009[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E7FF00, align: right"]11.32723709[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_660-766CE:VEN008[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFE500, align: right"]13.75146538[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE:VEN012[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFDE00, align: right"]14.09788991[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE:VEN018[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF8400, align: right"]18.50821709[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa_related:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE:VEN010[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF7E00, align: right"]18.80875594[/TD]
[TD]C5_Iron_Age_Eastern_Mediterranean:R850_(Latini)_Ardea[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF6400, align: right"]20.09779590[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa_related:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE:VEN021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF4100, align: right"]21.81523092[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa_related:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE:VEN022[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF3400, align: right"]22.45908280[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE:VEN014[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #CB00FF, align: right"]40.05631661[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa_VEN002:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_650-800CE:VEN002
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]Italian_Campania[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #51FF00, align: right"]3.99129052[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE:VEN015[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #62FF00, align: right"]4.78842354[/TD]
[TD]C6_Iron_Age_Mediterranean:R437_(Latin_Prenestini_Tribe)_Palestrina_Selicata[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #6DFF00, align: right"]5.34285504[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE:VEN013[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #70FF00, align: right"]5.49456095[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_650-763CE:VEN005[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #8CFF00, align: right"]6.85124076[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_650-763CE:VEN006[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #8CFF00, align: right"]6.85153268[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE:VEN016[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #91FF00, align: right"]7.11070320[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_650-800CE:VEN001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #B4FF00, align: right"]8.80512919[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE:VEN012[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #D8FF00, align: right"]10.57545271[/TD]
[TD]C5_Iron_Age_Eastern_Mediterranean:R850_(Latini)_Ardea[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #F4FF00, align: right"]11.96916455[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa_related:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE:VEN017[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #F6FF00, align: right"]12.04952696[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa_related:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_660-766CE:VEN009[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFB700, align: right"]16.04473434[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa_related:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE:VEN021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFB400, align: right"]16.19794431[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE:VEN018[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFB100, align: right"]16.32917022[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_660-766CE:VEN008[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF9800, align: right"]17.56188202[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE:VEN014[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF2E00, align: right"]22.73656087[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa_related:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE:VEN022[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF2700, align: right"]23.09242300[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa_related:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE:VEN010[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #B600FF, align: right"]41.08650873[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa_VEN002:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_650-800CE:VEN002
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]Italian_Calabria[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #72FF00, align: right"]5.56885985[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE:VEN015[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #8CFF00, align: right"]6.86971615[/TD]
[TD]C6_Iron_Age_Mediterranean:R437_(Latin_Prenestini_Tribe)_Palestrina_Selicata[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #8DFF00, align: right"]6.90782165[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_650-763CE:VEN005[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #92FF00, align: right"]7.14297557[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE:VEN013[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #9CFF00, align: right"]7.63675324[/TD]
[TD]C5_Iron_Age_Eastern_Mediterranean:R850_(Latini)_Ardea[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #9DFF00, align: right"]7.67804011[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE:VEN016[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #B0FF00, align: right"]8.60653821[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_650-763CE:VEN006[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #B0FF00, align: right"]8.63672971[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE:VEN012[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #BFFF00, align: right"]9.36611446[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_650-800CE:VEN001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFF200, align: right"]13.14361822[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa_related:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_660-766CE:VEN009[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFD700, align: right"]14.44092449[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa_related:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE:VEN017[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFCF00, align: right"]14.84296803[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa_related:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE:VEN021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFB100, align: right"]16.32544333[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE:VEN014[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF9F00, align: right"]17.22252595[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE:VEN018[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF7B00, align: right"]18.98826480[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_660-766CE:VEN008[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF2400, align: right"]23.23443995[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa_related:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE:VEN022[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF0002, align: right"]25.10630200[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa_related:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE:VEN010[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #B500FF, align: right"]41.14778487[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa_VEN002:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_650-800CE:VEN002
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]Italian_Apulia[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #64FF00, align: right"]4.91174104[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE:VEN016[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #66FF00, align: right"]4.99337561[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_650-763CE:VEN006[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #6CFF00, align: right"]5.30699538[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE:VEN013[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #6FFF00, align: right"]5.46375329[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_650-800CE:VEN001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #70FF00, align: right"]5.48427753[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE:VEN015[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #ACFF00, align: right"]8.44776894[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE:VEN012[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #B4FF00, align: right"]8.83920245[/TD]
[TD]C6_Iron_Age_Mediterranean:R437_(Latin_Prenestini_Tribe)_Palestrina_Selicata[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #BCFF00, align: right"]9.19165382[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_650-763CE:VEN005[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E8FF00, align: right"]11.38742289[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa_related:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_660-766CE:VEN009[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E9FF00, align: right"]11.39714438[/TD]
[TD]C5_Iron_Age_Eastern_Mediterranean:R850_(Latini)_Ardea[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #F7FF00, align: right"]12.12332463[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa_related:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE:VEN017[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFCD00, align: right"]14.93053917[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa_related:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE:VEN021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFC300, align: right"]15.43271525[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE:VEN018[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFAB00, align: right"]16.62586840[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_660-766CE:VEN008[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF7100, align: right"]19.44334076[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa_related:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE:VEN022[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF5100, align: right"]21.04862941[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE:VEN014[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF2200, align: right"]23.34985867[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa_related:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE:VEN010[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #D000FF, align: right"]39.79043478[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa_VEN002:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_650-800CE:VEN002
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]Italian_Abruzzo[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #4CFF00, align: right"]3.72090043[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE:VEN013[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #55FF00, align: right"]4.16998801[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE:VEN015[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #5BFF00, align: right"]4.45478395[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_650-763CE:VEN006[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #66FF00, align: right"]4.99756941[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_650-800CE:VEN001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #75FF00, align: right"]5.72951132[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE:VEN016[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #7CFF00, align: right"]6.09424319[/TD]
[TD]C6_Iron_Age_Mediterranean:R437_(Latin_Prenestini_Tribe)_Palestrina_Selicata[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #86FF00, align: right"]6.54599114[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_650-763CE:VEN005[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #C8FF00, align: right"]9.78305167[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE:VEN012[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #D3FF00, align: right"]10.32048933[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa_related:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_660-766CE:VEN009[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #DFFF00, align: right"]10.92179930[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa_related:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE:VEN017[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFF600, align: right"]12.91891636[/TD]
[TD]C5_Iron_Age_Eastern_Mediterranean:R850_(Latini)_Ardea[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFD000, align: right"]14.78553347[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_660-766CE:VEN008[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFCA00, align: right"]15.10968564[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE:VEN018[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFA500, align: right"]16.88843687[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa_related:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE:VEN021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF7600, align: right"]19.22627109[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE:VEN014[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF4900, align: right"]21.42257221[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa_related:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE:VEN010[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF4200, align: right"]21.76117644[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa_related:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE:VEN022[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #C600FF, align: right"]40.29470437[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa_VEN002:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_650-800CE:VEN002
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]PalermoTrapani_Combined[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #31FF00, align: right"]2.38784422[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE:VEN015[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #52FF00, align: right"]4.04278369[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE:VEN013[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #57FF00, align: right"]4.24855269[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_650-763CE:VEN005[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #57FF00, align: right"]4.25480904[/TD]
[TD]C6_Iron_Age_Mediterranean:R437_(Latin_Prenestini_Tribe)_Palestrina_Selicata[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #7EFF00, align: right"]6.18293620[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_650-800CE:VEN001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #7EFF00, align: right"]6.18618622[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_650-763CE:VEN006[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #84FF00, align: right"]6.46209718[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE:VEN016[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #D6FF00, align: right"]10.49192547[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa_related:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE:VEN017[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #D9FF00, align: right"]10.62509765[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa_related:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_660-766CE:VEN009[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #DBFF00, align: right"]10.73998603[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE:VEN012[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFF000, align: right"]13.22413702[/TD]
[TD]C5_Iron_Age_Eastern_Mediterranean:R850_(Latini)_Ardea[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFE100, align: right"]13.97620120[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE:VEN018[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFDD00, align: right"]14.18623981[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_660-766CE:VEN008[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFB300, align: right"]16.22776941[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE:VEN014[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFAA00, align: right"]16.65905460[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa_related:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE:VEN021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF6100, align: right"]20.24406086[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa_related:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_670-775CE:VEN010[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF2D00, align: right"]22.79961403[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa_related:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_672-800CE:VEN022[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #C900FF, align: right"]40.14503207[/TD]
[TD]S.Italy_Venosa_VEN002:Venosa(Potenza_Basilicata)_650-800CE:VEN002
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
Last edited:
Salento said:
@PT … the descendants of the 20.000 Muslims expelled from Sicily and sent to Lucera in Puglia, at some point were all exiled or sold into slavery, … sadly.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_settlement_of_Lucera
Click to expand...

Salento: Good read thanks. That was about 70 years I believe but I think there was a rebellion where they went against the rival upstart Bourbon upstart from Naples (Charles from France) who was fighting against Manfred of Sicily, last of the Norman Kings ruling over Sicily and Southern Italy.

Yes your correct, it was about 20K sent to Lucera I think there were other areas in Calabria and Campania that also received some of the 60K Muslims expelled from Sicily. In the fighting between various factions to control the Kingdom of Sicily/Naples the Muslims of Lucera allied with the losing side (Manfred) giving the winner the pretext to attack the City killing many of them in a siege and then as you say exiling and selling into the slavery the rest. I think the Bourbon period in Southern Italy takes place starting in the early 1300's and the Aragon era in Sicily who did not like the Bourbons (I don't think anyone really did!). Not that the Aragon rulers were significantly better than the Bourbons.
 
Last edited:
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