Mandylion said:
Why marriage? Couldn't there be other legal means to achieve the same protections/rights under the law? I hear one of the problems for gay couples is not being able to share insurance, medicare, medicade, taxes and the like because the law states these are for married people.
Kuro_Tsubasa69 said:
@Mandylion: This is just my opinion, but I really think they would like the ceremony, also.
In laic Europe, (especially countries like the UK, France, Belgium, the Netherlands...), so many people have come to dislike the idea of getting married because of its association with religion and church ceremony, that the number of umarried people living and having children together is on the rise. I don't know in the US, but in Japan almsot 100% of parents are married, because the father would not be recognised otherwise.
In Europe, that's already a few decades that married and non married couples have the same legal status. France offers 3 possibilities to couples who want to live or have children together : cohabitation, "pacs" or marriage. The legal status of each is different, but in all cases the couple and their children are legally recognised. Couples in "pacs" can declare their revenue together and enjoy tax rebates after 3 years of "pacs", while married couples always declare together and cohabiting ones never do. The inheritence tax is also progressive, highest for cohabitation, then pacs (degressive with number of years spent together), then marriage (also degressive).
For property and debts, cohabiting couples are completely separate, those in "pacs" have common property for thing sthey bought together and must be solidary for everyday debts, while married couples always have common properties and debts, unless otherwise specified in a "contract" (prenuptial agreement).
Now more interestingly, in all 3 situations, couples can have a common social security, medicare, etc. Even better, it is possible for a foreigner either in "pacs" or cohabiting with a French person (so not married), to obtain French nationality after 5 years of living in France (same condition as for married couples in Japan). If they are married, then only 1 year is necessary (that is for France, as each EU country has different laws ; e.g. it is only 6 months in Belgium).
For work, couples in "pacs" and married ones have the same priorities for holidays/vacations. That is, they are allowed to ask to have their holiday/vacation at the same time as their partner, but it's a matter of company policy.
It is also possible for couples in pacs to adopt children, though only one person can officially do so, while both can if they are married. Cohabitating couples can't.
In case of separation, there are no formalities for cohabiting couples, but "pacsed" and married couples must declare it officially at a tribunal/court. The only difference is that if they were married, they can ask their ex-partner for financial help/support. But in both case, damages can be sought by either party.
Is there any similar system in the States ? Do cohabiting couples have any rights, and is there any equivalent to "pacs" ?
That would be a solution for gays, as they don't need to get married, but can enjoy almost the same rights as married couples, including adoption (not sure about France, but gay marriages and adoptions are legal in the Netherlands). That would satisfied both conservatives and gay couples. But I fear the Bush administration's IQ level is too low to take such decisions.
For those who can read French, here is the
website where I obtained my information. BTW, these laws aren't new in France/Europe. I've always known this system since my childhood.
One last thing, in lots of EU countries, civil and religious marriages are clearly disctinct things. But that depends on the country. In France, Belgium, etc. the only legal way to get married is to sign at the townhall. Marriages made by a priest have no legal value. So if people want a religious marriage, they must get a civil one first. In countries like Italy, however, either way is acceptable. Japan is of course like France and many other Eu countries. How about the USA ? These "Las Vegas marriages" are only religious ones, aren't they ?
I suppose it's because marriage still has such a strong religious connotation in the US that it causes so much turmoil from religious activists and puritan politicians now. やはりアメリカはヨーロッパよりサウディアラビアに近い。
(Even though I can see ppl having probs w/that also....:auch:.)