Stable population structure in Europe since the Iron Age

[enter_tain]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Looking at this paper so far and the Roman Cosmopolitan one, it's all familiar main Balkanic branches but exotic subbranches. None of these branches represent major ancestral branches to current ones. Croatian, Montenegrin, Serbian samples are not ancestral to Albanians and Greeks.[/FONT]

These ghost migration theories being propped up by the likes of Riverman and Hawk are turning into a laughing stock. But that won't stop them lol. They'll twist and turn and come up with bullshit new excuses.

It's quite clear for Albanians and Greeks their ancestral branches are not spawned from anywhere else except where they originated from.

 

[Riverman]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Looking at this paper so far and the Roman Cosmopolitan one, it's all familiar main Balkanic branches but exotic subbranches. None of these branches represent major ancestral branches to current ones. Croatian, Montenegrin, Serbian samples are not ancestral to Albanians and Greeks.[/FONT]
These ghost migration theories being propped up by the likes of Riverman and Hawk are turning into a laughing stock. But that won't stop them lol. They'll twist and turn and come up with bullshit new excuses.
It's quite clear for Albanians and Greeks their ancestral branches are not spawned from anywhere else except where they originated from.

That's why they being found in Viminacium and Tisza-Transtisza Pannonia?
But a large portion will have been around Greece and Albania indeed, since the LBA-EIA.
That's my best bet, because otherwise the bulk came late.

 

[Cato]

The two J2b2-L283 samples have autosomal with closest tendencies toward Sardinia, this makes sense, the Sardinian island was a Phoenician colony, looks like J2b2-L283 was one of the markers
The Italian_Carloforte component represents ethnic ligurian descendants in Sardinia not actual native Sardinians

The area in red is the Sulcis-Iglesiente region not Carloforte. If you zoom the map you can see that they included also people from that area as a reference

 

[Hawk]

That's why they being found in Viminacium and Tisza-Transtisza Pannonia?
But a large portion will have been around Greece and Albania indeed, since the LBA-EIA.
That's my best bet, because otherwise the bulk came late.

So, if you see this, the Gava-core actually confronted and eventually smashed Vatin (which was it's distant cousin culture), Encrusted Pottery Culture, Hugelgraberkultur. All of these different cultures didn't exist afterwards in the region.

As a "contact zone" subject to the influences of the Pannonian Plain to the north, the Balkans to the south, the Carpatho-Danubian region to the east and the sub-Alpine region to the west, Vojvodina is exceptionally important for the study of the Bronze Age of these regions. It witnessed the processes of integration of certain cultures only to see them disintegrate again. At times almost the entire territory was dominated by a single culture, while at others completely divergent cultures developed simultaneously in each of its three constituent regions: the Banat, Srem and Bačka. In the latter half of the Early Bronze Age an attempt to establish control over an extensive territory was made by the Vatin culture which, in its westward and southward expansion, covered the central and southern Banat, and most of Srem reaching as far as Šumadija and the Lower Morava Valley. The Vatin population was driven out by the Encrusted Pottery people descending from the central and western Pannonian Plain. They remained there through several developmental phases extending into north-western Bulgaria and part of the Romanian Banat. At the end of the Middle and in the Late Bronze Age, in Srem the Banat and around the confluence of the Sava and Danube rivers a new culture emerged, marked by large necropolises containing cremation burials. In its expansion it covered the territory previously inhabited by Encrusted Pottery peoples. At the same time, northern Vojvodina became occupied by the Hügelgräber culture penetrating down the Tisa and Danube rivers. In the final phase of the Bronze Age there appeared black burnished pottery attributable to the widespread eastern Gava complex. In western Vojvodina this complex confronted the central-European, sub-Alpine and west-Pannonian varieties of the Urnenfelder culture. This confrontation, as well as numerous hoards dated to Ha A1-A2 C, mark the end of the Bronze Age in these regions.

https://www.researchgate.net/public...velopment_of_Bronze_Age_cultures_in_Vojvodina

One thing i wonder though, did E-V13 descend from Vinca-Turdas Culture? I would say possibility is there, from a Northern variant retreating into Carpathian mountains and some even residing and in case of Vatin during Middle Bronze Age who tried to massively expand but failed to do so because of Hugelgraberkultur pushes and Encrusted Pottery people running away and pushing the other people. It was a very dynamic time, and quite dangerous, competitive.

One other thing i also wonder is how is the possibility that the Vatin-Belegis culture looks similar superficially with Proto-VIllanovan? That's a mystery to me at the moment.

 

[Riverman]

I think we're really having a development from Ny?rs?g to Otomani I, to Suciu de Sus and Berkesz-Demecser, as well as Cehalut and Igrita.
That's a very old substrate in the Upper Tisza and K?r?s region. They got influenced by different other groups, but from these E-V13 was not coming.

 

[enter_tain]

That's why they being found in Viminacium and Tisza-Transtisza Pannonia?
But a large portion will have been around Greece and Albania indeed, since the LBA-EIA.
That's my best bet, because otherwise the bulk came late.

Are they ancestral branches? Most of those branches were dead ends.

All EV-13, J2B2-L283, R1b, but dead end branches.

We've gone through Croatia, Montenegro, Serbia, even all the way to Hungary. Unless there is another country there. Sokovia maybe?

 

[Riverman]

Are they ancestral branches? Most of those branches were dead ends.

All EV-13, J2B2-L283, R1b, but dead end branches.

We've gone through Croatia, Montenegro, Serbia, even all the way to Hungary. Unless there is another country there. Sokovia maybe?

From Viminacium we don't have that many, but from Avar Hungary we have from the Tisza/Transtisza area the same lineages which can be found in West-North China and also people like the Armenians. This points to a steppe connection and strong position in Pannonia-Carpathains-Western steppe, from which they spread in different directions.

This is especially true for E-Z5018: E-S2979 (especially E-L241, E-FGC11457) and E-Z5017.

 

[ihype02]

E-V13 is a very interesting line that sparkled my interest too and I have made some posts about it. But you guys are borderline obsessed with it. It's just too much.
It's not like you are curing cancer or something. Open a discord or something stop derailing numerous threads.

 

[Hawk]

E-V13 is a very interesting line that sparkled my interest too and I have made some posts about it. But you guys are borderline obsessed with it. It's just too much.
It's not like you are curing cancer or something. Open a discord or something stop derailing numerous threads.

Arapi ta hapi zhapini ta shtini.

 

[ihype02]

Arapi ta hapi zhapini ta shtini.

I think that there are two recent opened threads (one by you) about E-V13 you can continue there.

 

[Hawk]

Edited by Angela,

I had missed this post. I will not tolerate this kind of language from anyone, of any group.

Cut it out or else get out.

 

[ihype02]

I see that you never even wrote a single post in this thread and sneak around to have an opportunity to throw poison. This is the second/third time which you are doing, and probably just to gain the attention of Italian admins whom you suck around quite often. I never put any word on your stupid, dumbed-down and repetitive autosomal analysis of Dodecad12(Imperial Roman, Minoan-like, Mycenaean-like) or whatsoever, i simply ignore it.

In the end, palo pidhin, si thojne Kosovart mos u ban Franquz se nuk je ku me dijt se kushi.

I open a thread to actually read through it and see you and your autistic buddies spamming this forum every 2 mins and getting into serious fights/breakdown over a halpogroup.

Aren't most of you all banned for the same topic in the Anthrogenica? I am sure many others are tempted to say it too but just don't.

 

[Hawk]

I open a thread to actually read through it and see you and your autistic buddies spamming this forum every 2 mins and getting into serious fights/breakdown over a halpogroup.
Aren't most of you all banned for the same topic in the Anthrogenica? I am sure many others are tempted to say it too but just don't.

The funny thing is, Perhaps you can PM them telling them how different you are from the rest of us.

A lot of people have brought Y-DNA results in the thread, various one, it's very suspiciously idiotic for you to jump right into this moment.

Ed. by Angela.

If you don't like this site and its moderators you know what you can do.

 

[ihype02]

The funny thing is, all of this bullshit you have just written is just a facade, now pick a thread and go asslick the Italian moderators. Perhaps you can PM them telling them how different you are from the rest of us.

A lot of people have brought Y-DNA results in the thread, various one, it's very suspiciously idiotic for you to jump right into this moment.

I am not trying to suck up to anyone. You need to stop dumping those lame and personal arguments. You know nothing about me I am the total opposite of that.

 

[Musashi]

Can you show me a link? On FTDNA, surnames are often incorrectly reported if they are ancestors of Italians who migrated abroad.

I am the guy from Foggia

 

[kingdavid]

this posted by rafc from anthrogenica:

An additional update from the authors, apparently it was not possible to get the problems with mixups resolved, so the data will be migrated to two new projects:
Mapped reads: https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/browser/view/PRJEB53564
Raw reads: https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/browser/view/PRJEB53565

The data is in the process of validation, and should be available soon (this week if nothing goes wrong with the validation).


p.s
my cent i don't think it will effect the results which we already have
only will be more
easy to identify each ancient individual

 

[Angela]

Perhaps you can PM them telling them how different you are from the rest of us.

A lot of people have brought Y-DNA results in the thread, various one, it's very suspiciously idiotic for you to jump right into this moment.

Keep a civil tongue in your head or you're going bye-bye. Last warning.

Edited by me for decency's sake. Some people seem to think this is some seedy bar where they can spout profanities as and if they choose. Well, it's not.

 

[Dushman]

Keep a civil tongue in your head or you're going bye-bye. Last warning.

Edited by me for decency's sake. Some people seem to think this is some seedy bar where they can spout profanities as and if they choose. Well, it's not.

Can you check their country flag too please? Kosovo is an independent country and there’s no need for them to put Albania and confuse everyone else.

Other members here think we argue “among ourselves” but we are two separate groups with separate mentalities, allegiances, and identity.

 

[kingdavid]

Originally Posted by G-Man
Files are already available


rafc anthrogenica : Will have a look at some of the missing Balkans samples.

R6750, Viminacium, 148AD, https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-A427/
R6756, Viminacium, 180AD, https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-BY5022/
R3743, Zadar Ulica, 146AD, https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-BY22478/ (breaking this segment, I think)
R3744, Zadar Ulica, 146AD,https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-P312/


rafc anthrogenica : The last of the missing Balkans samples:

R3543, Gardun, 516AD, https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-Z38241/

I also downloaded R6764, which was previously reported based on Fastq.
The results were identical.

 

[mount123]

R2040 Sisak-Pogorelec, Croatia 245-402 calCE: J2b-L283>>>CTS190>CTS473 (CTS473?)

R3543 Gardun (Tilurium), Croatia 431-600.5 calCE: J2b-L283>>Z38240>Z38241>FT103684>FTA60432>FTA61140 (<->Y268072)

R3544 Gardun (Tilurium), Croatia 550-601 calCE: J2b-L283>>Z631>Z1043>>FT212328+(xY146109)

R3481 Doclea, Montenegro 211-320.5 calCE: J2b-L283>>Z631>Z1043

R9918 Doclea, Montenegro 996.5-1150.5 calCE: J2b-L283>>>CTS6190

R9669 Viminacium, Serbia 129.5-310.5 calCE: J2b-L283>>Z1295>Y21878>CTS11100>CTS8364 (xBY37860)

R6693 Svilos/Krusevlje, Serbia 236-332 calCE: J2b-L283>Z600 (J-Z585<?<J-Z2507)