Southern Italian Ethnogenesis (My theory)

Palermo Trapani · Jul 1, 2023

Leopoldo Leone said:
How was I "proven wrong" and how is your "a simple and very brief clarification of [that] reality", and how is this "obvious that south Italians (or Greeks) have large extra-european admixture"? I'll bring up just the most recent paper, https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.02.26.482072v1, but it is already a known fact that the the majority of the literature, up to now, doesn't support such claims. It is getting tiresome that such claims just keep getting made without further backing up because, it is said, "they're obvious", yet the literature doesn't back them up.

To briefly state what the "state of the art" is up to now, it's true that south Italians and Greeks have higher affinities towards middle easterners because of their higher caucasus-related ancestry compared to other Europeans, and I agree that it is useful (not "ontologically true" or as "natural kinds", for those more philosophically inclined) to distinguish between "Europeans" and "Middle Easterners", since as intra-caucasoid groupings they seem very reliable and "real" as far as it is very easy to tell them apart, though I'd add that "Middle Easterners" ought to be broken down into further subgroups and as a label "Middle Easterner" just stands for "Not European". However, these are groupings that came to be during the bronze age, and the gene pool of Italy and Greece were either largely formed by its end or further contributions came from inside Europe (barring maybe some further Iron age augmentations from Anatolia and the known low levels of north African in some southern Italians), as the extra CHG Greeks and Italians carry was already present in similar levels in samples from all the way back to the Mycenaean period. If caucasus-related ancestry by itself is "extra-european" because it peaks in Caucasians-whereas, for example, Anatolian neolithic related ancestry peaks in south west Europe-, then we must also coherently say that north Europeans are less European than south west Europeans or than Sardinians because the steppe component which in Europe peaks in the north carries 40% caucasus-related ancestry. Said otherwise, the components in south Italy and Greece's gene pools were already present during the BA, the period the "European" and "Middle Eastern" gene pools formed, and it doesn't seem that further contributions from the Middle East are needed in order to explain the south Italians and Greeks' genetic make up, and actually there is evidence AGAINST such scenarios (for examples that haplogroups don't add up).

Since you brought up appearance as a kind of evidence, though it is not since we're strictly speaking of genotype/autosomal, I'd say that you're an American that hasn't set foot in Italy: as an Italian, precisely some one who has always lived in Sicily (Sicilian from mother's side, Emilian from father's side), it is my experience that it is extremely easy to tell apart "east meds", by which I take you mean Turks and Levantines, from all Italians, and usually it is Americans because of debatable casting choices made by Hollywood or other pop culture phenomena (including cherry-picked photos on the internet) that think otherwise. It may be true that such judgements are subjective and lack any substance to them (why I prefer to speak about autosomal), and it isn't to deny the existence of "funny looks" in Italy, but since it has been brought up I'll say that to me and the persons I've interactions with it is extremely easy to tell apart us Middle Easterners, indeed common folks in Sicily call every one that is visibly darker than us "Turcu", "Turk", and our "funny looks" are different from what we can call "east med" looks.

Leonardo: Good post: First time I actually ever ran my own Dodecad 12B coordinates vs Turkish samples. I also ran the population averages for Sicily, Campania, Calabria, Apulia and Abbruzzo. Nothing close at all. For the Greek samples distances much closer with many <5, which I don't think I need to post. And of course, I have never seen a published paper (Ever!) that has those regions listed above as plotting with Turkish samples.

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]Italian_Sicily[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00A7, align: right"]19.89771595[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur262[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00C1, align: right"]20.66252163[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur52[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00C6, align: right"]20.83488661[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur210[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00D6, align: right"]21.28828786[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur20[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00E8, align: right"]21.81449518[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur2

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]Italian_Campania[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00BA, align: right"]20.48160882[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur262[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00DC, align: right"]21.46847689[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur210[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00DE, align: right"]21.53508300[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur52[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00E5, align: right"]21.73708812[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur20[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00F5, align: right"]22.20104952[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur2

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]Italian_Calabria[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF0076, align: right"]18.48463957[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur262[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF009C, align: right"]19.58649024[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur20[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF009D, align: right"]19.61444366[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur52[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00A9, align: right"]19.97742476[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur210[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00BB, align: right"]20.50360456[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur2

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]Italian_Apulia[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00AA, align: right"]20.01008246[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur210[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00BE, align: right"]20.58985673[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur262[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00C0, align: right"]20.65304094[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur52[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00DD, align: right"]21.49759289[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00EE, align: right"]22.00883232[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur20

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]Italian_Abruzzo[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00EE, align: right"]22.00538798[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur262[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00FD, align: right"]22.45253438[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur210[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FA00FF, align: right"]22.66137683[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur52[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #DE00FF, align: right"]23.47617090[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur20[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #DC00FF, align: right"]23.52214276[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur2

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]PalermoTrapani_ANCESTRY[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #F600FF, align: right"]22.77877960[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur262[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #D000FF, align: right"]23.87896355[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur52[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #BF00FF, align: right"]24.37781573[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur20[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #BE00FF, align: right"]24.40335223[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur210[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #A100FF, align: right"]25.26955678[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur2

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Jovialis · Jul 1, 2023

nick6899 said:
doesn't matter, they look very similar because the very similar genetic pattern, period.

They do not, as Palermo demonstrated.

Jovialis · Jul 1, 2023

I don't even blame nick for having this misconception. If you read the news, and even the nomenclature used in some papers, they constantly use terms like Turkey, when in fact they really mean Anatolia_N. This may be confusing, but I think it is an outright obfuscation. The news and the way they frame some papers may as well be produced by the likes of Jada Pickett Smith. The only people from what is now Turkey that Italians are close to are Anatolian_N. There's more Anatolian_N in Italians than in modern Turks. In fact there's more Anatolian_N in French and English than modern Turks.

Jovialis · Jul 1, 2023

Does it really matter for Turkish identity? I don't think so, since they take their ethnic name and language from the conquers. They do have Anatolian_N of course, but there's a lot Syrian influence since the Hittites. Who they themselves were Anatolian_BA. This is in addition to the Turkic enrichment.

nick6899 · Jul 1, 2023

Jovialis said:
They do not, as Palermo demonstrated.

he didn't demostrate anything, south italians plot near ashkenazis, cypriots and other similar populations, turkish is somehow different because its east asian admixture, and anyway that vahaduo distance is not even so large, anway being predominantly a west eurasian population modern turks have sometimes european look, above all that one of southeastern euro peoples..

Palermo Trapani · Jul 1, 2023

Jovialis said:
They do not, as Palermo demonstrated.

Jovialis: Just to refresh my memory, if we were to formulate a null hypothesis that Population A equals Population B in terms of genetic admixture/plots in the same PCA space, etc. A Dodecad 12b distance of 5 or less would be evidence the populations form a genetic cluster, conservatively If I remember what the creator of Dodecad 12b said, 7 would be a conservative critical value to make that conclusion. Accordingly, assuming I have my facts correct above, Dodecad 12b distances of > 5 for sure, and 7 (if you wanted to be more conservative) would be evidence to reject the null hypothesis that Population A equals Population B in terms of genetic admixture/plots in same PCA space, etc.

Continuing on, again assuming what I wrote above is correct then the distances from Southern Italians and Turkish would in fact say those 2 populations are distinct enough in terms of admixture and do not in fact cluster together (which they don't per every admixture model and PCA plot I have ever seen published in the extant literature).

With regards to Cypriots and Dodecad 12b Italian population averages, we get the following:

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]Greek_Cypriot[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #77FF00, align: right"]11.69769635[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Jews[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #8DFF00, align: right"]13.80741830[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Calabria[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #ADFF00, align: right"]16.94310479[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Sicily[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #ADFF00, align: right"]17.00926218[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Campania[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #B5FF00, align: right"]17.77195544[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Basilicata[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #C3FF00, align: right"]19.10659310[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Apulia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #CBFF00, align: right"]19.95015288[/TD]
[TD]Italian_Abruzzo

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Regarding Greek population averages, we get the following:

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]Greek_Cypriot[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #4DFF00, align: right"]7.57679352[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Cappadocia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #50FF00, align: right"]7.84850941[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Rhodes[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #59FF00, align: right"]8.74741105[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Kos[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #6DFF00, align: right"]10.64342520[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Icaria[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #7EFF00, align: right"]12.32271480[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Crete[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #87FF00, align: right"]13.18782772[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Fournoi[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #97FF00, align: right"]14.81955128[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Izmir[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #A9FF00, align: right"]16.52590996[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Pontus[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #BBFF00, align: right"]18.28810816[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Lemnos[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #C6FF00, align: right"]19.38476206[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Foca[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E3FF00, align: right"]22.23314193[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Athens[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E7FF00, align: right"]22.68361082[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Central[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FAFF00, align: right"]24.52737858[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Peloponnese[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFE600, align: right"]27.43907615[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Thessaloniki[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFE500, align: right"]27.51509404[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Thrace[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFDE00, align: right"]28.23999469[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Thessaly[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFAB00, align: right"]33.22848025[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Macedonia

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Cato · Jul 1, 2023

In Saupe et. al 2021 there is one sample from Lazio dated to 1608-1504 BCE, so the time of the Apennine culture.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960982221005352

Maybe the substracte of the Apennine populations from the south was more "eastern" genetically (considering the Aegean connections of South Italy in the CA/EBA). Impossible to know at the moment.

eupator · Jul 1, 2023

nick6899 said:
No you are lying, research confirms what I said and what genetic calculators tell, southeastern euros, above all sicilians and island greeks, are peripheral populations, they have large CHG, Natufian, etc..DNA, we see on the g25, on the PCA.. stop denying and cope.

Correction: The Dodecannesians are not, by any means, 'peripheral', they are the actual center of the Eastern Greco-Roman Imperial world.

Francesco · Jul 1, 2023

nick6899 said:
No you are lying, research confirms what I said and what genetic calculators tell, southeastern euros, above all sicilians and island greeks, are peripheral populations, they have large CHG, Natufian, etc..DNA, we see on the g25, on the PCA.. stop denying and cope.

Even Yamnaya had large portion of CHG ancestry, I wouldn't call them levantine.
Southern Italy doesn't seem to have extra natufian admixture when compared to Myceneans, while it does sows a bit more CHG related admixture. Some of it might be related to Eastern mediterranean contact of the Greek poleis of magna Grecia in the hellenistic period, but it doesn't seem a huge contribution, even judging by the the uniparentals

Jovialis · Jul 1, 2023

nick6899 said:
he didn't demostrate anything, south italians plot near ashkenazis, cypriots and other similar populations, turkish is somehow different because its east asian admixture, and anyway that vahaduo distance is not even so large, anway being predominantly a west eurasian population modern turks have sometimes european look, above all that one of southeastern euro peoples..

Ashkenazi are close to Greeks and south Italians, because they have a lot of Aegean ancestry, as well as some northern European, in addition to middle eastern, which coincidentally makes them plot there. I already explained Turkey. They do not plot near Cypriots, Cypriots plot near Lebanese. Even Italian Jews are a fit of 11+ vs Cypriots, that's not close.

I suggest reading some more genetic papers on these topics before posting. Unless you are asking questions, seeking knowledge.

Jovialis · Jul 1, 2023

nick6899 said:
No you are lying, research confirms what I said and what genetic calculators tell, southeastern euros, above all sicilians and island greeks, are peripheral populations, they have large CHG, Natufian, etc..DNA, we see on the g25, on the PCA.. stop denying and cope.

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]Sicily_(n=37)[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00DF, align: right"]21.55285085[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur262[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00F8, align: right"]22.28120863[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur52[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00FE, align: right"]22.48406792[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur210[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #F000FF, align: right"]22.93916276[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur20[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #DE00FF, align: right"]23.47230406[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #B700FF, align: right"]24.63062834[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur67[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #B200FF, align: right"]24.75923609[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur154[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #A300FF, align: right"]25.20854250[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur222[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #8C00FF, align: right"]25.86796121[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur110[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #8A00FF, align: right"]25.92709610[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur236[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #8900FF, align: right"]25.96564474[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur277[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #6D00FF, align: right"]26.79668891[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur139[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #5500FF, align: right"]27.50011899[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur84[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #5200FF, align: right"]27.60072083[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur124[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #4B00FF, align: right"]27.78572030[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur37[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #4200FF, align: right"]28.05298714[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur197[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #3900FF, align: right"]28.32970165[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur170[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]35.00689436[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur182[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]40.01370020[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur306[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]Campania_(n=17)[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00B2, align: right"]20.22140540[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur262[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00D4, align: right"]21.23336847[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur52[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00DB, align: right"]21.43497639[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur210[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00E2, align: right"]21.65867863[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur20[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00F7, align: right"]22.27088989[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E300FF, align: right"]23.31642935[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur67[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #DC00FF, align: right"]23.52269882[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur154[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #CC00FF, align: right"]23.98774211[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur222[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #BA00FF, align: right"]24.51648619[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur110[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #B000FF, align: right"]24.82563869[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur236[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #AB00FF, align: right"]24.98020548[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur277[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #9B00FF, align: right"]25.43941016[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur139[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #8000FF, align: right"]26.23109932[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur84[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #7800FF, align: right"]26.48137117[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur37[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #7400FF, align: right"]26.58356792[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur124[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #7400FF, align: right"]26.59508692[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur197[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #5D00FF, align: right"]27.25527668[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur170[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]33.90076636[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur182[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]39.24169086[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur306[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]Calabria_(n=6)[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF009A, align: right"]19.54184435[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur262[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00C1, align: right"]20.66478439[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur52[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00C2, align: right"]20.70544004[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur20[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00CC, align: right"]21.00509813[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur210[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00E1, align: right"]21.60323696[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #F800FF, align: right"]22.70088722[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur67[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #F000FF, align: right"]22.94134362[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur154[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E300FF, align: right"]23.32608941[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur222[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #D700FF, align: right"]23.67209498[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur110[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #C700FF, align: right"]24.14589228[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur277[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #B700FF, align: right"]24.61093078[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur236[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #B400FF, align: right"]24.70733050[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur139[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #9200FF, align: right"]25.69808061[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur84[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #8F00FF, align: right"]25.78822368[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur37[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #8E00FF, align: right"]25.81142087[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur197[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #8600FF, align: right"]26.07342416[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur124[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #6F00FF, align: right"]26.74293765[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur170[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]33.51454581[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur182[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]39.15380246[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur306[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]Basilicata_(n=9)[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00BE, align: right"]20.57359941[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur262[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00CB, align: right"]20.96914594[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur210[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00D3, align: right"]21.19182241[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur52[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00EC, align: right"]21.93221181[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur20[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00EF, align: right"]22.03287048[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #ED00FF, align: right"]23.02350835[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur67[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E500FF, align: right"]23.25234142[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur154[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #D600FF, align: right"]23.71985627[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur222[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #BA00FF, align: right"]24.52231032[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur110[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #BA00FF, align: right"]24.53153352[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur236[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #A600FF, align: right"]25.11890177[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur277[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #9900FF, align: right"]25.50603051[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur139[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #8500FF, align: right"]26.08012873[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur84[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #7C00FF, align: right"]26.35905734[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur124[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #7800FF, align: right"]26.46913807[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur37[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #7700FF, align: right"]26.49854531[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur197[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #6300FF, align: right"]27.08867236[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur170[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]33.93600682[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur182[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]38.30927539[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur306[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]Apulia_(n=230)[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00DF, align: right"]21.55223190[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur262[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00E1, align: right"]21.62818054[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur210[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00F1, align: right"]22.08713923[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur52[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #F600FF, align: right"]22.76297368[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #F100FF, align: right"]22.89939036[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur20[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #D200FF, align: right"]23.81234074[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur67[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #C900FF, align: right"]24.09533268[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur154[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #B900FF, align: right"]24.54476208[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur222[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #A300FF, align: right"]25.21084771[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur236[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #9A00FF, align: right"]25.45675283[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur110[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #8400FF, align: right"]26.12322731[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur277[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #7600FF, align: right"]26.51579958[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur139[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #6900FF, align: right"]26.90079443[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur84[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #6600FF, align: right"]26.99519612[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur124[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #5A00FF, align: right"]27.34050378[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur37[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #5A00FF, align: right"]27.36513666[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur197[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #4A00FF, align: right"]27.81878386[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur170[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]34.74346186[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur182[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]38.56972860[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur306[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]Molise_(n=2)[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E900FF, align: right"]23.14438593[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur262[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E700FF, align: right"]23.21977605[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur210[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #D600FF, align: right"]23.71040278[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur52[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #BE00FF, align: right"]24.39846102[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #B800FF, align: right"]24.57666983[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur20[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #9800FF, align: right"]25.53291993[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur67[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #8D00FF, align: right"]25.86254435[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur154[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #7D00FF, align: right"]26.33638927[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur222[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #7200FF, align: right"]26.65206559[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur236[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #5E00FF, align: right"]27.22872013[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur110[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #4600FF, align: right"]27.94141908[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur277[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #3800FF, align: right"]28.36072460[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur139[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #3600FF, align: right"]28.39914611[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur124[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #3100FF, align: right"]28.55359172[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur84[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #2200FF, align: right"]29.01395699[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur37[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #1E00FF, align: right"]29.13197213[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur197[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #1800FF, align: right"]29.30387517[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur170[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]36.19341100[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur182[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]39.76887854[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur306[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]Abruzzo_(n=19)[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E900FF, align: right"]23.13976813[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur262[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #D500FF, align: right"]23.73711009[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur210[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #D300FF, align: right"]23.80743052[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur52[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #AE00FF, align: right"]24.86949348[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur20[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #AA00FF, align: right"]24.98941903[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #8300FF, align: right"]26.13373864[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur67[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #7E00FF, align: right"]26.30538889[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur154[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #6C00FF, align: right"]26.83662345[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur222[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #6B00FF, align: right"]26.84016492[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur236[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #4E00FF, align: right"]27.70286315[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur110[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #4600FF, align: right"]27.92975852[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur277[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #3100FF, align: right"]28.54509019[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur139[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #2800FF, align: right"]28.83751496[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur124[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #2600FF, align: right"]28.88755952[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur84[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #1600FF, align: right"]29.36078194[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur37[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0C00FF, align: right"]29.65214087[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur170[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0700FF, align: right"]29.78420909[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur197[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]36.12010171[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur182[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]40.52428083[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur306[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]Jovialis[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #F600FF, align: right"]22.75523456[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur262[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #EF00FF, align: right"]22.97770876[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur210[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E200FF, align: right"]23.35725155[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur52[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #C400FF, align: right"]24.22127164[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #BE00FF, align: right"]24.40373332[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur20[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #9800FF, align: right"]25.54262320[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur67[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #9300FF, align: right"]25.67444644[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur154[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #8700FF, align: right"]26.03100075[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur236[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #8300FF, align: right"]26.13397788[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur222[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #5F00FF, align: right"]27.20097609[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur110[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #5600FF, align: right"]27.48166298[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur277[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #4800FF, align: right"]27.87890062[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur124[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #4000FF, align: right"]28.13233193[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur139[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #3F00FF, align: right"]28.15136231[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur84[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #2D00FF, align: right"]28.68055787[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur37[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #2900FF, align: right"]28.78264581[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur170[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #1D00FF, align: right"]29.15198621[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur197[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]35.46421013[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur182[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]39.32602192[/TD]
[TD]Turkey:tur306
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Yamnaya has more CHG than the majority of model middle easterners:

Southern Europeans have more Anatolia_N than modern middle easterners, including turkey:

Oh, what happened, this is G25 too...

Like I said, even English people have more Anatolia_N than modern day middle easterners including Turkey:

Also, do not accuse our members of lying, when they are in fact speaking the truth. You received an infraction for that. Also, don't use puerile words like "cope", this isn't a stupid social media website. If you're going to come here and act like a child, and try to brow beat people with your ignorant lack of genetic knowledge, I am going to send you on a one way ticket out of here. This is the final warning.

Jovialis · Jul 1, 2023

Cato said:
In Saupe et. al 2021 there is one sample from Lazio dated to 1608-1504 BCE, so the time of the Apennine culture.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960982221005352

Maybe the substracte of the Apennine populations from the south was more "eastern" genetically (considering the Aegean connections of South Italy in the CA/EBA). Impossible to know at the moment.

Undoubtably so, considering ties to Greece_N in Apulia. It is likely on a WHG/CHG cline from Central Italy to Southern Italy during this time period. Central Italy experienced a WHG revival in the copper age, while to previous samples show they actually had a bit extra CHG, which was not present in groups like LBK. Moreover, each iteration of Bronze age cultures in the south have always attested links to the Aegean.

Jovialis · Jul 1, 2023

Not to mention, ChL cultures, like Laterza culture, or Gaudo culture; who is to say these people experienced a WHG-revival in the copper age? What would be their CHG contribution?:

We see that Tuscany and Central Italy were both in Rinaldone culture, and Ortucchio culture before Apennines culture.

Jovialis · Jul 1, 2023

Jovialis said:
Not to mention, ChL cultures, like Laterza culture, or Gaudo culture; who is to say these people experienced a WHG-revival in the copper age? What would be their CHG contribution?:

We see that Tuscany and Central Italy were both in Rinaldone culture, and Ortucchio culture before Apennines culture.

We can see the North prefers a large segment of Remedello, and the South prefers something similar to Minoan (i.e. Greece_N-like)

Laterza culture has not been explored, but I bet it would be illuminating.

Pax Augusta · Jul 1, 2023

Jovialis said:
Not to mention, ChL cultures, like Laterza culture, or Gaudo culture; who is to say these people experienced a WHG-revival in the copper age? What would be their CHG contribution?:

We see that Tuscany and Central Italy were both in Rinaldone culture, and Ortucchio culture before Apennines culture.

Archaeological cultures do not always correspond to peoples, it is a complex subject.

The culture of Rinaldone has continuous and profound relations with the Remedello culture to the north and the Gaudo culture to the south.

The culture of Rinaldone is probably the last archaeological culture in the Prehistory of Eturia to be characterised by people without Steppe ancestry. Around its last phase, the arrival of objects from the Bell Beaker culture is recorded in Tuscany. It is in this last phase that the first individuals bearing Steppe ancestry may have arrived.

But the territorial extent of the Rinaldone culture does not correspond 100% to the territory of the Etruscans. There is an area in the south of Latium, which in historical times will be inhabited by Latin-Faliscan and Osco-Umbrian-speaking peoples that is as transitional between Rinaldone and Gaudo.

In Antonio's 2019 study there is a sample analysed from this area, R1014 from Monte San Biagio in the province of Latina, in southern Lazio, Monti Ausoni. Do we have the Dodecad K12b coordinates of R1014?

Jovialis · Jul 1, 2023

Indeed:

Code:

C_Italian_ChL:R1014:Antonio_2019,0,0,2.67,0,64.87,0.54,0,0,0,0,31.92,0

Jovialis · Jul 1, 2023

R1014 is in the PCA with C_Italian_ChL

Combined with Corded_Ware's general direction, IA Etruscans and Latins are between that and C_Italian_ChL

Francesco · Jul 2, 2023

I noticed how in Oldade et al. there are at least four published greek samples from Empuries (one from the classical period, two from the hellenistic period and one from the Roman period) while we usually see just one of them in PCAs. I wonder if there is a specific reason for this.

Malaparte · Jul 2, 2023

My father's results using various calculators on this thread =

(1) Italy-Wide Comparison
[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]Dad[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #57FF00, align: right"]2.56341479[/TD]
[TD]Sicily_(n=37)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #5FFF00, align: right"]2.79042278[/TD]
[TD]Basilicata_(n=9)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #60FF00, align: right"]2.83285574[/TD]
[TD]Campania_(n=17)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #63FF00, align: right"]2.89760485[/TD]
[TD]Calabria_(n=6)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #86FF00, align: right"]3.95410677[/TD]
[TD]Apulia_(n=230)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #C9FF00, align: right"]5.91451967[/TD]
[TD]Abruzzo_(n=19)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #D3FF00, align: right"]6.20552173[/TD]
[TD]Molise_(n=2)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFD900, align: right"]8.60857921[/TD]
[TD]Lazio_(n=5)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFBB00, align: right"]9.49801952[/TD]
[TD]Marche_(n=18)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF9E00, align: right"]10.33839876[/TD]
[TD]Umbria_(n=13)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF2400, align: right"]13.93482480[/TD]
[TD]Tuscan_(n=28)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF1D00, align: right"]14.15215520[/TD]
[TD]TSI_(n=96)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF0030, align: right"]16.40094954[/TD]
[TD]Corsica_(n=12)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF003D, align: right"]16.79643955[/TD]
[TD]Emilia-Romagna_(n=7)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF0087, align: right"]18.98398536[/TD]
[TD]Liguria:ALP099[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF0089, align: right"]19.01966375[/TD]
[TD]Piedmont_(n=14)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00FE, align: right"]22.48285453[/TD]
[TD]Veneto_(n=19)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FE00FF, align: right"]22.54292286[/TD]
[TD]Lombardy_(n=17)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #A200FF, align: right"]25.23456363[/TD]
[TD]Friuli-Venezia-Giulia_(n=16)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #9D00FF, align: right"]25.36805449[/TD]
[TD]Trentino-Alto_Adige_(n=9)[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #5100FF, align: right"]27.60773125[/TD]
[TD]Aosta-Valley_(n=2)
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Iron-Age Populations

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]Dad[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FBFF00, align: right"]7.38049456[/TD]
[TD]Prenestini_o:IA:R437:Antonio_2019[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFFA00, align: right"]7.64875807[/TD]
[TD]Aposelemis_N(lc_conam.):APO038[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFF200, align: right"]7.86832257[/TD]
[TD]Chania_LBA:XAN026[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFE000, align: right"]8.39879753[/TD]
[TD]Mygdalia_LBA:MYG003[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFCD00, align: right"]8.96253312[/TD]
[TD]GRC_Palace_of_Nestor_EIA:I19368[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFC400, align: right"]9.23347172[/TD]
[TD]Aidonia_LBA:AID001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFBF00, align: right"]9.37521733[/TD]
[TD]Chania_LBA:XAN027[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFBD00, align: right"]9.43336101[/TD]
[TD]Latini_o:IA:R850:Antonio_2019[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFBD00, align: right"]9.43486089[/TD]
[TD]Himera_Med:Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med:I20168[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFB800, align: right"]9.57605869[/TD]
[TD]Aidonia_LBA-rel.of.AIDOO1:AID002[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFAD00, align: right"]9.92644952[/TD]
[TD]GRC_Mycenaean_Palace_of_Nestor_BA:I13517_d[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFA600, align: right"]10.10637423[/TD]
[TD]Krousonas_LBA:KRO008[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFA200, align: right"]10.22487164[/TD]
[TD]Aidonia_LBA:AID017[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFA200, align: right"]10.22562956[/TD]
[TD]Mygdalia_LBA-related:MYG008[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFA000, align: right"]10.29076771[/TD]
[TD]Chania_LBA:XAN042[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF9D00, align: right"]10.38096335[/TD]
[TD]Aidonia_LBA:AID007[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF9800, align: right"]10.52150179[/TD]
[TD]Krousonas_LBA:KUK001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF9200, align: right"]10.71836275[/TD]
[TD]Himera_Med:Himera_Civilian_Pop_Med:I20166[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF8E00, align: right"]10.83233585[/TD]
[TD]GRC_Mycenaean_Kastrouli_BA:I13577[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF8D00, align: right"]10.84293318[/TD]
[TD]Krousonas_LBA:KUK005[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF8200, align: right"]11.18743939[/TD]
[TD]Himera_Med:Himera_409_BC_Battle_Med:I17884[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF8100, align: right"]11.21281410[/TD]
[TD]Himera_Med:Himera_480_BC_Battle_Med:I10945[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF8100, align: right"]11.21466451[/TD]
[TD]GRC_Mycenaean_Palace_of_Nestor_BA:I13518[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF7F00, align: right"]11.26103459[/TD]
[TD]Aidonia_LBA-rel.of.AIDOO7:AID008[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF7B00, align: right"]11.39103156[/TD]
[TD]Mygdalia_LBA-related:MYG005
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Malaparte · Jul 2, 2023

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]Dad[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF1500, align: right"]14.38325068[/TD]
[TD]Anatolian_BA:I2499:Lazaridis_2017[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF0700, align: right"]14.80050675[/TD]
[TD]Anatolian_BA:I2495:Lazaridis_2017[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF0061, align: right"]17.84221959[/TD]
[TD]Anatolian_BA:I2683:Lazaridis_2017[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF009A, align: right"]19.51700541[/TD]
[TD]Minoan:Lasithi:I9005:Lazaridis_2017[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF009B, align: right"]19.56109915[/TD]
[TD]Minoan:Odigitria:I9131:Lazaridis_2017[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00AF, align: right"]20.15869043[/TD]
[TD]Minoan

etras_EBA

ta08:Clemente_2021[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00E4, align: right"]21.71346357[/TD]
[TD]Minoan:Lasithi:I0071:Lazaridis_2017[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00F2, align: right"]22.12681631[/TD]
[TD]Minoan:Lasithi:I0074:Lazaridis_2017[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #F900FF, align: right"]22.66882220[/TD]
[TD]Minoan:Lasithi:I0073:Lazaridis_2017[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #F100FF, align: right"]22.91667297[/TD]
[TD]Minoan:Odigitria:I9130:Lazaridis_2017[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #EA00FF, align: right"]23.12189871[/TD]
[TD]Minoan:Lasithi:I0070:Lazaridis_2017[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #2800FF, align: right"]28.82452602[/TD]
[TD]C_Italian_N:R9:Antonio_2019[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #1700FF, align: right"]29.32925672[/TD]
[TD]C_Italian_N:R18:Antonio_2019[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]30.46805540[/TD]
[TD]C_Italian_N:R3:Antonio_2019[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]31.17817987[/TD]
[TD]C_Italian_N:R8:Antonio_2019[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]31.19965224[/TD]
[TD]C_Italian_N:R10:Antonio_2019[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]32.18237561[/TD]
[TD]C_Italian_N:R2:Antonio_2019[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]33.00052727[/TD]
[TD]C_Italian_N:R19:Antonio_2019[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]34.88035694[/TD]
[TD]C_Italian_N:R16:Antonio_2019[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]37.87468416[/TD]
[TD]C_Italian_ChL:R4:Antonio_2019[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]41.26146507[/TD]
[TD]C_Italian_ChL:R5:Antonio_2019[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]43.00852357[/TD]
[TD]C_Italian_ChL:R1014:Antonio_2019[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]52.37861109[/TD]
[TD]Remedello:RISE489:Allentoft_2015[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]56.16528821[/TD]
[TD]Remedello:RISE487:Allentoft_2015[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]60.90265594[/TD]
[TD]Yamnaya:I0357_SVP5:Haak_2015

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TH="class: singleheader, colspan: 2, align: left"]Target: Dad
Distance: 0.2418% / 0.24176134

[/TH]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]55.6[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Minoan[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]22.4[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Anatolian_BA[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]18.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Yamnaya[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]4.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Iberomaurusian[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TH="class: singleheader, colspan: 2, align: left"]Target: Dad
Distance: 0.2065% / 0.20652408

[/TH]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]27.7[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]GRC_Mycenaean_Palace_of_Nestor_BA[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]18.6[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Himera_Med[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]12.4[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Latini_o[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]12.3[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]HRV_Cetina_BA[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]9.6[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Etruscan_o[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]9.2[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Chania_LBA[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]4.8[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Beaker_Central_Europe[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]2.5[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Caucasus_Merc[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]1.1[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Beaker_Knezeves[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]0.8[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Aposelemis_N(lc_conam.)[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]0.6[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Beaker_Sicily[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]0.3[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Etruscan.Afr[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]0.1[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]GRC_Palace_of_Nestor_EIA[/TD]

Southern Italian Ethnogenesis (My theory)

Active member

Advisor

Advisor

Advisor

Banned

Active member

Regular Member

destroyer of delusions

Banned

Advisor

Advisor

Advisor

Advisor

Advisor

Elite member

Advisor

Advisor

Banned

Regular Member

Regular Member