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Southern Illyrians & Mycenean Greeks on a PCA plot

Johane Derite said:
Map of the chaneled ware distribution in Albania and Kosova. From Pazhok to Dardania. Very, very fascinating.

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Based on the distribution of channeled ware in Albania and Kosova, it would seem that the people known as "South Illyrians" had a big injection of a non-Illyrian, non-Greek component of channeled ware people in the late bronze age - early iron age.
 
Johane Derite said:
If we imagine then in the late bronze age an autosomal signal from dalmatia that extends into north Albania of north italian like people, meeting greeks, what type of signal input would this channeled ware people from the carpathians have brought?
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Somewhere between HUN_LBA and BGR_IA. The first being pretty sure, because there are now a couple of samples, whereas BGR is just a single one from a more distant zone.
But the really new input would have been HUN_LBA anyway.
 
Riverman said:
Somewhere between HUN_LBA and BGR_IA. The first being pretty sure, because there are now a couple of samples, whereas BGR is just a single one from a more distant zone.
But the really new input would have been HUN_LBA anyway.
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That makes sense to be honest. I can't wait for these new samples to see what will show up.
 
mount123 said:
This is my last reply to your non sense and misinformation spread: paternal, maternal and auDNA vary A LOT according to what region we are talking about.

As per Rrenjet some J2b-L283 heavy regions: Malesia 42.6 %, Prishtina Valley 29.3%, Malesia e Gjakoves 25% etc.
Strong variations in regions apply also to Illyrian mtDNA. Same applies to Illyrian auDNA.

The MBA to IA Western Balkans show a clear pattern.

No one cares what a science refuser like you wants to fabricate. You nationalists can keep dreaming about your "Mycenean like" Southern Illyrians as much as you want but that is far from reality.
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We don't even have Southern Illyrian DNA yet. So its technically guesswork on all sides until we actually get ancient samples. Sadly the woman in control of most archeological sites in North Albania, including Komani culture is anti-genetics and won't allow testing.

Going by sampling and Y-DNA alone, Kosove is really under-tested man. And most J2b-L283 in Kosove falls overwhelmingly in PH1751 which dates back to one man in the early medieval. Theres still a huge amount of areas in Kosove severely under tested or not tested at all. So that can all change too.

There's also E-V13 in Iron Age Albania coming up in a paper within a year or 2 based on rumors out of sources Rrenjet has in Albania.
 
Dibran said:
We don't even have Southern Illyrian DNA yet. So its technically guesswork on all sides until we actually get ancient samples. Sadly the woman in control of most archeological sites in North Albania, including Komani culture is anti-genetics and won't allow testing.
Going by sampling and Y-DNA alone, Kosove is really under-tested man. And most J2b-L283 in Kosove falls overwhelmingly in PH1751 which dates back to one man in the early medieval. Theres still a huge amount of areas in Kosove severely under tested or not tested at all. So that can all change too.
There's also E-V13 in Iron Age Albania coming up in a paper within a year or 2 based on rumors out of sources Rrenjet has in Albania.
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Dibran is this about the Southern Samples that were rumored some months ago? Cause I double checked last time I heard this with Rrenjet over at Anthro, and was told that those samples are not tested yet. Just making sure since I got confused last time.
Since for the Northern Samples I know of R1b(but that was EBA-MBA IIRC) but not of E-V13. Or is this from some third site I have not heard about.
Also why would this person be against genetic testing? :O
 
Archetype0ne said:
Also why would this person be against genetic testing? :O
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Scared of getting results that they won't like. I knew some people (long ago) who didn't get tested because they were afraid of getting a Slavic y-dna, for example.
 
mount123 said:
You nationalists can keep dreaming about your "Mycenean like" Southern Illyrians as much as you want but that is far from reality.
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Is Davidski an Albanian nationalist? I literally just copy pasted his stuff over here.
 
Fustan said:
Scared of getting results that they won't like. I knew some people (long ago) who didn't get tested because they were afraid of getting a Slavic y-dna, for example.
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Not to mention the fact that it is possible that the Albanian board of archaeology is still unfamiliar with genetic testing; only time will tell whether or not additional studies will be performed.

It would be wonderful if geneticists could do studies at the Komani-Kruja site. I can talk about it, but talking versus doing is a very different proposition. Nevertheless, it remains to be seen whether this will occur in the near future.

Lets just 'pray' for now. :biggrin:
 
Excine said:
Not to mention the fact that it is possible that the Albanian board of archaeology is still unfamiliar with genetic testing; only time will tell whether or not additional studies will be performed.

It would be wonderful if geneticists could do studies at the Komani-Kruja site. I can talk about it, but talking versus doing is a very different proposition. Nevertheless, it remains to be seen whether this will occur in the near future.

Lets just 'pray' for now. :biggrin:
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They have like 50 skeletons from Late Iron Age Albania in Diber. They are starting the process of DNA analysis as we speak.

Let's just hope they're not Goths or something, because this was a "secret cave" used for worshipping in private and it matches the Gothic invasions of the Balkans perfectly.
 
enter_tain said:
They have like 50 skeletons from Late Iron Age Albania in Diber. They are starting the process of DNA analysis as we speak.

Let's just hope they're not Goths or something, because this was a "secret cave" used for worshipping in private and it matches the Gothic invasions of the Balkans perfectly.
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If this is actually the case, I apologize for not being aware of it. 50 skeletons is a significant amount of material, and I hope that genetic research continues to be more cheap for developing countries.
 
Bill7 said:
The truth is that Greek Epirotes, Western Macedonians and Southern Albanians pretty much cluster together so there is definitely some ancient connection there. I have even noticed sone N. Macedonians being closer to Albanians and Greeks than Bulgarians.
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Oh for sure. And no surprise since in ancient times their nobility at least intermarried a lot. Pyrrhus of Epirus was adopted by Illyrians, and Philip of Macedonia lived in Illyria as a child.

I have a nutjob theory too. If "Macedonian" referred to highlanders, I wonder if "Molossians" was the same thing but in southern Illyrian. Albanian highlanders are called "Malesors", and we know the word "Mal" was used in southern Illyria (Dimallum). There currently is no etymology tying "Molossian" to Greek.
 
Dibran said:
There's also E-V13 in Iron Age Albania coming up in a paper within a year or 2 based on rumors out of sources Rrenjet has in Albania.
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Let's hope so, so we put this nonsense behind us. EV-13 is widespread all over Europe, but somehow it's a "Daco-Thracian" only marker according to some here. :laughing:
 
Here's a preview of an upcoming model I am putting together.


I think it is important to point out that the Aegean Islands are not all near-homogenously Anatolia_BA in the model; the same in previous ones I made as well.


Foca and Lemmos look like they belong in Central Greece or Athens, except they don't get the Corded Ware-like ancestry from Slavic enrichment. Anatolia_BA is a minority component for them.

aRRsEaN.png
 
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Archetype0ne said:
Dibran is this about the Southern Samples that were rumored some months ago? Cause I double checked last time I heard this with Rrenjet over at Anthro, and was told that those samples are not tested yet. Just making sure since I got confused last time.
Since for the Northern Samples I know of R1b(but that was EBA-MBA IIRC) but not of E-V13. Or is this from some third site I have not heard about.
Also why would this person be against genetic testing? :O
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I doubt they weren't tested when the rumors were specific about finding J2b-L283/R1b/E-V13. Unless we're talking about different studies. But it was the South of Albania, yea.

My guess is she's terrified results won't match expectations. For some extra conspiracy theories, maybe she's getting paid off by Serbian government 🤣

Komani really would be the cream of the crop of early medieval Albanian origins that would shatter Serb and Greek government anti-Albanian propaganda.
 
Excine said:
Not to mention the fact that it is possible that the Albanian board of archaeology is still unfamiliar with genetic testing; only time will tell whether or not additional studies will be performed.

It would be wonderful if geneticists could do studies at the Komani-Kruja site. I can talk about it, but talking versus doing is a very different proposition. Nevertheless, it remains to be seen whether this will occur in the near future.

Lets just 'pray' for now. :biggrin:
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Sadly this woman is in control if all the Komani cultural sights from Lezhe to Oher and she is not allowing it. Not so much unfamiliar as much as thinking it's hocus pocus. Or if you want to be a conspiracy theorist like myself, she's getting paid off by our neighbors lol.
 
enter_tain said:
They have like 50 skeletons from Late Iron Age Albania in Diber. They are starting the process of DNA analysis as we speak.
Let's just hope they're not Goths or something, because this was a "secret cave" used for worshipping in private and it matches the Gothic invasions of the Balkans perfectly.
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50 skeletons in late Iron Age Diber? That's interesting. But obviously if they're iron age they certainly aren't Goths. Of course some samples could be more recent depending if they're carbon dated.

Also, I suspect heavy J2b-L283. After a batch I sponsored in Diber, they have some diversity with 2 or 3 samples distantly related to the Iron Age. Including a sample from Bulqize.

J2b-L283 in particular from the 3 paleobalkan lines is pretty diverse in Diber. Insofar as there being a variety of L283 branches. Nit all one clade.
 
II-III century A.D is not Late Iron Age, rather Late Antiquity.
 
Dibran said:
Sadly this woman is in control if all the Komani cultural sights from Lezhe to Oher and she is not allowing it. Not so much unfamiliar as much as thinking it's hocus pocus. Or if you want to be a conspiracy theorist like myself, she's getting paid off by our neighbors lol.
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What is your source of information for her not allowing it? Scandalous if true.
 
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