R-L21 fixed in the Isles since EBA

[Mmiikkii]

Since the Early Bronze Age, haplogroup R1b-L21 seems to have been dominant in the British Isles(at least in Britain).



20/21 Y-haplogroups are R1b.
5/20 are some M269 subclades that are very small, or the sample doesn't have enough coverage(ended in '1a).

But 15/21 are P312(a2), out of which 13/21 are L21(with an additional 'c' after the 'a2').
That's basically 65% of L21 by the Yamnaya invasion.
Not so far from the current 70%.

 

[BillMC]

It is still relatively common on the western coast of the Continent between the Low Countries and northern Spain. It is also common in SW Norway.

It is sometimes referred to as the Atlanto-Celtic genome.

 

[Mmiikkii]

It is still relatively common on the western coast of the Continent between the Low Countries and northern Spain. It is also common in SW Norway.
It is sometimes referred to as the Atlanto-Celtic genome.

We know for a fact that Britanny was conquered by Celts, also they were present in Iron Age France.
But it's in the Isles where they made their familiar fiefdom.
It's pretty much just them with other Rs and other haplogroups.

As of today, among those haplogroups there's less R, but way more I1, I2 for example. In the BA, I made a thread about how R1b decreased in civilized times, during the Romans and the Barbarians came J2, I1, R1a, J1...

 

[BillMC]

We know for a fact that Britanny was conquered by Celts, also they were present in Iron Age France.
But it's in the Isles where they made their familiar fiefdom.
It's pretty much just them with other Rs and other haplogroups.
As of today, among those haplogroups there's less R, but way more I1, I2 for example. In the BA, I made a thread about how R1b decreased in civilized times, during the Romans and the Barbarians came J2, I1, R1a, J1...

It certainly does have its highest concentration in the British Isles - particularly Ireland and Scotland.

 

[Robotnick]

Some seem to have hypothesized that it spilled mainly north and westward from the Unetice culture, but I'm thinking it's an older Bell-Beaker lineage, perhaps along with DF27.

 

[MOESAN]

Y-R1b L21 can be found in Italy and Switzerland too. I don't think its a migration from West, I prefer to think its the remnants of an older presence on the continent before they were partly swept by U152 and DF27. Apparently L21 is considered as older than the two others. It deserve a checking with more ancient haplo's in more places.

 

[Mmiikkii]

Some seem to have hypothesized that it spilled mainly north and westward from the Unetice culture, but I'm thinking it's an older Bell-Beaker lineage, perhaps along with DF27.

Older like Native to Western Europe???

 

[Robotnick]

Older like Native to Western Europe???

Older as in earlier Bell Beaker. There were Bell Beakers in Western Europe in places like Iberia and the British Isles that predated the Unetice Culture in central Europe, as far as I know.

 

[BillMC]

Older as in earlier Bell Beaker. There were Bell Beakers in Western Europe in places like Iberia and the British Isles that predated the Unetice Culture in central Europe, as far as I know.

The actual or original Bell Beaker Folk were Neolithic people living in northern Spain. Their culture was adopted by the R1b-L21 people when they moved into western Europe.

 

[MOESAN]

The actual or original Bell Beaker Folk were Neolithic people living in northern Spain. Their culture was adopted by the R1b-L21 people when they moved into western Europe.

I think so as a whole, spite I see the first genuine BB's more on the Atlantic shores, and more southern (Sth Portugal?)

 

[Robotnick]

The actual or original Bell Beaker Folk were Neolithic people living in northern Spain. Their culture was adopted by the R1b-L21 people when they moved into western Europe.

I've seen that idea discredited in these forums (and on Genarchivist), and that a more likely origin for Bell Beakers is Single Grave Culture. Bell Beakers migrated to spain sometime later but still fairly early (Between 2500 and 2400 BC?)
The first Bell Beaker artifacts were found in Spain, if I recall correctly, and so there was an interest in trying to tie its development to that region.