New map of R1b-S28 (U152)

Liechtenstein has 33% u152 and Belgium has about 10% I believe.
 
I find it interesting that a third one men from Lichtenstein are u152 due to its proximity to Switzerland and it also borders Austria, not to mention being to the north of Italy.
 
U152 is highest in north Italy and just to the north of that in switErland and with a heavier northwestern distribution in the eastern parts of France near Alsace, coincidental with a la tene culture distribution thus meaning Gauls.
 
adamo said:
Liechtenstein has 33% u152 and Belgium has about 10% I believe.
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Where on earth did you get data on Lichtenstein ?
 
Genographic project 2.0
 
About one third of all males in the country are positive for R-S28.
 
Also the Lusatian region of southwestern Poland on the northern Austrian (Czech Republic just to the west) needs to be further investigated as generally this zone is associated with a mild high of u152
 
​Say if we wanted to phenotypically analyze Italians. Let's take as a sample the country's national soccer team. I would personally guess that these players are R1b; since they are italian it is probably u-152 (note that physical appearance is NOT a good indicator of haplogroup membership at all.); mattia destro, manolo gabbiadini, daniele de Rossi, davide santon, daniele gastaldello, federico peluso, mattia de sciglio, christian Maggio, giuseppe Rossi, Alessandro florenzi, marco verratti, alessandro diamanti, emanuele Giaccherini, claudio marchisio, riccardo Montolivo, lorenzo de Silvestri, ignazio abate, federico balzaretti etc. other than their names that clearly differ from English or American ones lol, they seem to me to "look" the part of the typically west European profile nations with higher R1b frequencies. Genetics indicate a nice chunk of Italian males (40%) might as well list their ethnicity as Swiss as both nations have the world's highest Gallic component today in modern times. Then we can see nice examples of other Italians; Lorenzo insigne, giorgio chiellini, alessio cerci, Alberto Aquilani, andrea Pirlo, leonardo bonucci, ranocchia and davide astori. These guys probably have those Neolithic lineages like E3b,J2, that come from the Middle East and for E3b probably from north-Africa before arriving to the Balkans then Italy. Insigne looks like an Etruscan Greco-Turk type as does Alberto Aquilani. Chiellini MUST be a Jew lol, Pirlo bonucci and ranocchia may pass for Jews as well. Astori is difficult to class and alessio cerci looks like a north-African in my opinion.
 
If an individual were to have a typically west-European genetics on one family side (Irish,English,Belgian,German) mixed generation after generation with a neoliic component on the other family side (Greece,turkey,Lebanon) it would probably eventually culminate into an individual that looks like leonardo bonucci or davide astori in my opinion.
 
Don't christian Maggio, federico balzaretti and claudio marchisio for example look so stereotypically French? They could all pass as a French "Gaston" name guy lolll
 
U152 of Britain (Dec 2013)

attachment.php
 
If you mentally overlap the distribution maps for R1b-DF27, R1b-S28 (minus the extension to the west) and R1b-S21 you pretty much get a Roman's eye view of Vascones, Gauls and Belgae. (Even more so if that western extension of S28 happened after Caesar).


edit: great maps btw
 
brianco said:
attachment.php
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Is there one for L21, U106, other S116 etc from the same source?

Hmm found this one for S145/L21, seems oddly low in many parts to me, the east and southeast agrees with busby, but many other areas don't:
L21Isles.jpg
 
I have updated the R1b-S28 (U152) map based especially on the data from Valverde et al. (2016), and Lucotte et al (2015). The biggest changes are the higher levels in Galicia, Portugal, Andalusia and along the Mediterranean coast of France. This haplogroup looks increasingly associated with the Romans rather than the Celts/Gauls. I think it's not an either/or question. It is almost certain that Hallstatt and La Tène Celts carried U152, and so did the Romans and all Italic tribes. But the high incidence of U152 in southern France, eastern and southern Iberia can only be explained by the Roman colonisation.

Haplogroup-R1b-S28.gif
 
Being a clade 4500 years old it's too radical to assign it only to Romans... in fact the high frequency areas seem somehow related to ancient Ligurian regions (Languedoc, Provence, Liguria, Piemonte, Corsica...). Even the high freq in SW Iberia is not problematic with tiying this clade to Celts, as there was in such region the Celtici and the Baeturi (but for Portugal and Spain south of the Duero and Ebro rivers is not a good deal to take much from there as it received Arab and Berber tribes and thereafter Christian colons). Moreover the Turkish spot would fit quite well with the migration of the Galatians.
 
Also the map could display just the contrary: if such clade expanded with Bell Beakers, and Bell Beakers popped up in SW Iberia... the high frequencies could point the area of origin and the area(s) of success, taking for that a Mediterranean route as the Maritime BB. Frequencies per se are not decisive and to check up this possibility it would be needed to know geographic variance of subclades.
 
Contrary to popular belief, it appears that the clade was founded somewhere near the Bashkirs. According to Myres et al. 2010, the highest frequency of 74% of 70 samples of Bashkirs from norhtern Bashkorostan belonged to U152. I don't know if this is a typo of the team as the one with Croats and M458 in Underhill et al. 2014. In all other southern and eastern Bashkirs U152 is mentioned with a maximum frequency of 1%.
 
Belmonde said:
Contrary to popular belief, it appears that the clade was founded somewhere near the Bashkirs. According to Myres et al. 2010, the highest frequency of 74% of 70 samples of Bashkirs from norhtern Bashkorostan belonged to U152. I don't know if this is a typo of the team as the one with Croats and M458 in Underhill et al. 2014. In all other southern and eastern Bashkirs U152 is mentioned with a maximum frequency of 1%.
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The Y-DNA haplogroups among its Bashkir members include R1b-M73, R1b-M269, R1b-Z2105, R1b-U152, R1a-Z2123, R1a-Z282, R1a-Z280, N1, G, I1-Z59, I2, H, and C. (...) Regarding Y-DNA haplogroups genetic studies have revealed that most Bashkir males belong to haplogroup R1b (R-M269 and R-M73) which is, on average, found at the frequency of 47,6%. Following are the haplogroup R1a at the average frequency of 26,5%, and haplogroup N1c at 17%. In lower frequencies were also found haplogroups J2, C, O, E1b, G2a, L, N1b, I, T.[7] The main branch of R1a in Bashkirs is Z93, specifically Z2125, which peaks in Central Asia, among Bashkirs at 31%.
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Most mtDNA haplogroups found in Bashkirs (60-65%) consist of the haplogroups G, D, С, Z and F; which are lineages characteristic of East Eurasian populations. On the other hand, mtDNA haplogroups characteristic of European and Middle Eastern populations were also found in significant amounts (35-40%).
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The Bashkirs physically and genetically have a mixture of European and Asiatic traits, which is fitting because they live on both sides of the Ural Mountains geographically separating Europe and Asia. Fedorova's team found them to be 60.7% Caucasian and 39.3% Mongoloid. That makes them more Mongoloid than the Volga Tatars and Chuvashes but less Mongoloid than some Central Asian Turkic-speaking peoples like the Uyghurs and Kazakhs.
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U-152 was found in Bashkirs from Perm province. Anyway it was already widely discussed here

http://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/26878-Bashkirs-What-Subclades-of-R1b-Were-They

R1b-U152-tree.png
 
the peak in south western iberia matches somehow with the celtici. can't post the link but just search for celtici in google. the wikipedia site has a nice map.
but it's strange that the haplogroup is not as common in other former celtic region in iberia.
wikipedia says that the celtici were a mix of celtiberians and celts form central and northeastern gaul. maybe they could have had a higher percentage of U152 than the other celtiberians because of this.
Edit: probably not. the percentage should still not be higher than in gaul.
 
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Ailchu said:
the peak in south western iberia matches somehow with the celtici. can't post the link but just search for celtici in google. the wikipedia site has a nice map.
but it's strange that the haplogroup is not as common in other former celtic region in iberia.
wikipedia says that the celtici were a mix of celtiberians and celts form central and northeastern gaul. maybe they could have had a higher percentage of U152 than the other celtiberians because of this.
Edit: probably not. the percentage should still not be higher than in gaul.
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A possible answer could be that SW Iberia knew numerous immigrations of tribes or sets of tribes from Belgia after Hallstatt, the most of them Celtic, some others Germanic but in tight contact with NE Celts among whom U152 seems having been heavy enough...It seems the Tajo/Tagus river became a "highway" towards the S-W:
 
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