New map of mtDNA haplogroup L

I think so too. But curiously my mom and my grandmother look northerner ..blond hair and blue eyes.. while my father looks Italian..dark eyes and dark hair.


I know you don't need me to tell you that there are a variety of "Italian" looks.
smile.gif


And, for what these kinds of studies are worth...
http://img.readtiger.com/wkp/en/Blond_hair_Italy.gif

So, no surprise as far as the phenotype of the Ligurian members of your family is concerned.

Also, for what it's worth, you should know that contrary to everything you've ever been taught, Ligurians are not quite northern Italian in the mind of some people...apparently you have to eat all of your food covered in speck to qualify. Also, be prepared for judgments by people who have either never been there, or went on a group tour for two weeks! LOL! And you'll be treated to some novel pronouncements on Italian history by people who've never studied it either...just try to keep a sense of humor about it all, as difficult as it may sometimes be...

Now that I know someone from Liguria is on the site, and would likely be interested, I'm going to start threads on both the anthropology and the archaeology and culture of this and neighboring affiliated areas for some of the materials I have gathered.

I've also posted about the McDonald results and the various calculators in my response to Sile. (Post #120)
 
I know you don't need me to tell you that there are a variety of "Italian" looks.
smile.gif


And, for what these kinds of studies are worth...
http://img.readtiger.com/wkp/en/Blond_hair_Italy.gif

So, no surprise as far as the phenotype of the Ligurian members of your family is concerned.

Also, for what it's worth, you should know that contrary to everything you've ever been taught, Ligurians are not quite northern Italian in the mind of some people...apparently you have to eat all of your food covered in speck to qualify. Also, be prepared for judgments by people who have either never been there, or went on a group tour for two weeks! LOL! And you'll be treated to some novel pronouncements on Italian history by people who've never studied it either...just try to keep a sense of humor about it all, as difficult as it may sometimes be...

Now that I know someone from Liguria is on the site, and would likely be interested, I'm going to start threads on both the anthropology and the archaeology and culture of this and neighboring affiliated areas for some of the materials I have gathered.

I've also posted about the McDonald results and the various calculators in my response to Sile. (Post #120)

lol I know about this kind of discrimination.. I don't mind :)

in which section are you posting the threads? I'm interested.


do you know why I can't use the "one to many" option? it says my kit has not completed batch processing
 
Yes, I know.

As we have previously discussed, I don't share your high opinion of his work. BGA is only marginally better than PF so far as I can see, but to each their own.

From my point of view, there are still not enough reference populations, (I mean, really, only a few people from Bergamo and Tuscan samples for a country with the highest regional diversity in Europe? And using Ashkenazi Jews as a Middle Eastern reference population, with all their European admixture?) his explanations are about as clear as mud when they aren't completely simplistic, he is seriously lacking in knowledge of archaeology, history or population movements in Europe, and given the results, his algorithm is still obviously faulty. The good professor, with all due respect, is a professor of chemistry, not genetics, and certainly not population genetics.

If someone wants an analysis of their autosomal make-up, I only recommend 23and me.

I used to highly recommend the calculators produced by Dienekes, and they still have their uses, especially for comparisons with other members of one's ethnic group, but as we've discovered through the work of population geneticists of the highest caliber recently, they're of very limited usefulness in terms of actual ancestry and the population movements which created the autsomal signature of one's area. You need to have followed the entire development of this method in order to really understand what those components do and not mean...as Dienekes himself pointed out, to his credit, particularly as time went on.

A well done IBD analysis is also very informative.

In terms of cutting edge population genetics, you can't go wrong with anything from the Reich group at Harvard, and I think the work done by Ralph and Coop on IBD analysis is also very impressive.

you clearly know more about autosomal than me, but its a bit much to claim 23andme are the best at telling us who a north-italian is or tuscan or anyone else in Italy when they have only 13 samples of North-italians
PopulationSourceSample Size
Italy23andMe556
Italy1000 Genomes98
North ItalianHGDP13
TuscanHGDP8

clearly Gedmatch stands head and shoulders above 23andme who I find very much lacking in regards to auDna splits
 
mtDna L3f is a very fascinating marker, I have read many of the professional papers on this marker recently and its origins vary greatly, a lot of times its even called Eurasian or even Pannonian.
I think a person such a MACIANO can clear up this marker for us after deciphering the many many papers on it by these genetic scholars
 
I tried many calculators and the results are very different ..
I'd like to try "triangulation" and "one to many matches" but I couldn't because it appears my kit has not completed batch processing (I don't know what that means)

I have 2 accounts in gedmatch ,
1 - an ftDna account which took 1 day to load, and a
2- 23andme account which took 4 days to load

I guess you need to wait
 
you clearly know more about autosomal than me, but its a bit much to claim 23andme are the best at telling us who a north-italian is or tuscan or anyone else in Italy when they have only 13 samples of North-italians
PopulationSourceSample Size
Italy23andMe556
Italy1000 Genomes98
North ItalianHGDP13
TuscanHGDP8

clearly Gedmatch stands head and shoulders above 23andme who I find very much lacking in regards to auDna splits


I don't mean to be difficult or offensive in any way, but I really don't understand your point here...

23andme uses ALL the publicly available autosomal research data sets for its analysis; that means it uses the HGDP data set, but it uses many others as well, including the many other Tuscan data sets, as just one example. In addition, it uses the data of all of its members with four grandparents from Italy, by region. So, it has the data of people with ancestry from southern Italy, Liguria, the Veneto and on and on as part of its data base.

The fact that it is continually adding to its data base as more people submit their samples is the reason that the results keep changing...as more people add their data, the results become more and more precise. Of course, lots of data can only do so much...the algorithm has to be good as well. If you haven't yet looked at it, you should read the White Paper where the 23andme scientists explain it...it's very impressive I think...no one else is doing anything like it...

As to your comment about Gedmatch, I also find that confusing. Gedmatch has provided versions of calculators created by a number of hobbyists, including Dienekes. The hobbyists differ in the number of publicly available data sets that they use. To my knowledge, Dienekes is the only one who uses all of the publicly available autosomal data sets for Italians, and, in addition, like 23andme, he has access to the autosomal data of Italians from areas that have not been sampled in research studies. Then, of course, it all depends on whether you trust the objectivity and the competence of these analysts. I don't trust some of their results at all.

In terms of the other tools available at gedmatch, yes, people can compare themselves to other people who have made their data available, etc. However, whether most people who are using these tools have any idea what they're doing, or how to interpret the results...well, let's say that I am highly skeptical, and leave it at that.
 
This is what McDonald told me about my mtDNA:

"It was LONG ago. African slave. Its possible to have L3 mtDNA and in fact REALLY be 100.0000% European on the autosomes, X and Y. "
I was going to say the same thing but refrained since some people take it the wrong way. An African mtdna and no autosomal dna from Africa, means that your ancestors have been in Italy since the Roman times and the autosomals of your original L3 ancestor are almost gone. I wish I knew what exactly it means to be L3 in terms of physical and mental traits, but I think science has not gone that far. So you're probably left with more questions than answers from all these tests.
 
I don't mean to be difficult or offensive in any way, but I really don't understand your point here...

23andme uses ALL the publicly available autosomal research data sets for its analysis; that means it uses the HGDP data set, but it uses many others as well, including the many other Tuscan data sets, as just one example. In addition, it uses the data of all of its members with four grandparents from Italy, by region. So, it has the data of people with ancestry from southern Italy, Liguria, the Veneto and on and on as part of its data base.

The fact that it is continually adding to its data base as more people submit their samples is the reason that the results keep changing...as more people add their data, the results become more and more precise. Of course, lots of data can only do so much...the algorithm has to be good as well. If you haven't yet looked at it, you should read the White Paper where the 23andme scientists explain it...it's very impressive I think...no one else is doing anything like it...

As to your comment about Gedmatch, I also find that confusing. Gedmatch has provided versions of calculators created by a number of hobbyists, including Dienekes. The hobbyists differ in the number of publicly available data sets that they use. To my knowledge, Dienekes is the only one who uses all of the publicly available autosomal data sets for Italians, and, in addition, like 23andme, he has access to the autosomal data of Italians from areas that have not been sampled in research studies. Then, of course, it all depends on whether you trust the objectivity and the competence of these analysts. I don't trust some of their results at all.

In terms of the other tools available at gedmatch, yes, people can compare themselves to other people who have made their data available, etc. However, whether most people who are using these tools have any idea what they're doing, or how to interpret the results...well, let's say that I am highly skeptical, and leave it at that.

Pardon? , yes it uses only those stated, it does not use ftdna, while gedmatch does, it does not use ancestry, which gedmatch does. it uses only what it states.

what this below mean from 23andme ancestry composition?

Ancestry Composition tells you what percent of your DNA comes from each of 31 populations worldwide.
The analysis includes DNA you received from all of your ancestors, on both sides of your family.
The results reflect where your ancestors lived 500 years ago, before ocean-crossing ships and airplanes came on the scene.



Italian
The peninsula of Italy is home to a genetic legacy not only of the Roman Empire,
but also of groups from both northern Europe and the eastern Mediterranean
that occupied Italy at various points in its history.

PopulationSourceSample Size
Italy23andMe556
Italy1000 Genomes98
North ItalianHGDP13
TuscanHGDP8
hide details




French & German
Connected to the British Isles, Scandinavia, southern Europe and eastern Europe,
France and Germany have seen myriad peoples come and go over the last ten thousand years.
Genetically and geographically the French and Germans are at the heart of Europe.


PopulationSourceSample Size
Germany23andMe367
Netherlands23andMe207
France23andMe200
Switzerland23andMe87
Belgium23andMe80
Austria23andMe54
FranceHGDP29
hide details


I agree it adds to its data , but uses only these numbers above as listed on its site.....yes it adds numbers , like switzerland went from 77 in November 2013 to 87 now

Where does it say it uses more that what is noted on its site?

yes Gedmatch uses admixture settings created by dodecad, eurogenes, MdLP etc ( dodecad only had 5 north-italian samples ) and adds the numbers from every genetic testing company of the people that join Gedmatch. it will add 23andme, ftdna, ancestry , genomes etc and then uses their formula from the selected creator,

example, say you choose Eurogenes K13 ........so while eurogenes might have 50 north-italian in their data for their initial test, gedmatch will add all the other north-italian data from every other testing company into the mix and use the eurogenes formula to give you a result.............so you answer will not be from 50 NI, but many many more.

Using far more people from different testing companies, which is why, gedmatch gives me 5 times more matches , than ftdna and 23andme combined. 5 times more matches means more people's data is used to determine the final result

BTW, dienekes which is dodecad uses only 5 north-italian samples as i tried to enter my data numbers ( and I qualify) and was told its closed and is set as 5 in number
 
Last edited:
I was going to say the same thing but refrained since some people take it the wrong way. An African mtdna and no autosomal dna from Africa, means that your ancestors have been in Italy since the Roman times and the autosomals of your original L3 ancestor are almost gone. I wish I knew what exactly it means to be L3 in terms of physical and mental traits, but I think science has not gone that far. So you're probably left with more questions than answers from all these tests.

Doug does not say, her marker was in Italy that long ago ( from Roman times ), but says her marker was in Europe that long ago.
Her family could have only arrived in Italy from Ukraine, as an example, only 300 years ago, or france or belgium
 
mtDna L3f is a very fascinating marker, I have read many of the professional papers on this marker recently and its origins vary greatly, a lot of times its even called Eurasian or even Pannonian.
I think a person such a MACIANO can clear up this marker for us after deciphering the many many papers on it by these genetic scholars

I read somewhere about L3 Eurasian origin theory.. or just asian origin sometimes..I found also this http://racialreality.blogspot.it/2013/10/haplogroups-l3-and-e-asian-not-african.html
Is Maciano going to post here?
 
I have 2 accounts in gedmatch ,
1 - an ftDna account which took 1 day to load, and a
2- 23andme account which took 4 days to load

I guess you need to wait

I loaded my data 1 month ago :/
 
I loaded my data 1 month ago :/

email
John Olson , he is 1 of 2 that run Gedmatch

let me know if you cannot find his email.........he has always replied to me inside 48 hours


[SIZE=-1]If you are still experiencing issues after having read the FAQ, please contact us at [email protected]. Please remember we're just a couple of overworked volunteers, and we may not be able to respond to your query in a timely fashion.[/SIZE]
 
I was going to say the same thing but refrained since some people take it the wrong way. An African mtdna and no autosomal dna from Africa, means that your ancestors have been in Italy since the Roman times and the autosomals of your original L3 ancestor are almost gone. I wish I knew what exactly it means to be L3 in terms of physical and mental traits, but I think science has not gone that far. So you're probably left with more questions than answers from all these tests.

it affects physical and mental traits? O_O
 
email
John Olson , he is 1 or 2 that run Gedmatch

let me know if you cannot find his email.........he has always replied to me inside 48 hours


[SIZE=-1]If you are still experiencing issues after having read the FAQ, please contact us at [email protected]. Please remember we're just a couple of overworked volunteers, and we may not be able to respond to your query in a timely fashion.[/SIZE]


Ok thanks, I'll try to contact him :)
 
it affects physical and mental traits? O_O
it certainly affects something in the body, but nobody knows what yet (to my knowledge). Do you like hipop, watermelon and chicken? (joke)
 
it certainly affects something in the body, but nobody knows what yet (to my knowledge). Do you like hipop, watermelon and chicken? (joke)

lol I haven't African admixture as far as I know.. I feel ok..I mean, normal lol
 
Very interesting possibilities...
I've also read that most of Ligurians allied with Carthaginians against the Romans
 

This thread has been viewed 222586 times.

Back
Top