Map of Germanic paternal lineages

Maciamo

Veteran member
Admin
Messages
10,115
Reaction score
3,562
Points
113
Location
Lothier
Ethnic group
Italo-celto-germanic
I have created a new map combining most Germanic lineages associated with the diffusion Germanic peoples from the Iron Age onwards. These includes Y-DNA haplogroups I1 (except some subclades of Finnish origin), I2-M223, R1a-Z284, R1b-U106, and R1b-L238.

 
Many thanks, this is a very interesting map. Especially data about Holland. I thought that Dutch people were more Celtic than Germanic.
 
I'm grousing a bit about not all lines of I1 being included... but overall this is a great map. Illustrates clearly the location of these tribes while attaching them to a specific time frame.
 
Wouldn't Castile, Valencia and especially Cantabria have at least 5% Germanic Y-DNA? Based on the data found here on Eupedia, Cantabria has 8.5% R1a, 2% I2a2, 1% I1 and surely some of its 55% R1b is U106; Castile has 3% R1a, 0.5% I1, 0.5% I2a2, plus the odd R-U106, and the Valencia region has 3% R1a, 3% I1, 1% I2a2 plus x amount of U106.
 
I have created a new map combining most Germanic lineages associated with the diffusion Germanic peoples from the Iron Age onwards. These includes Y-DNA haplogroups I1 (except some subclades of Finnish origin), I2-M223, R1a-Z284, R1b-U106, and R1b-L238.

wait R1a Z284 in scandnavia is NOT GERMANIC. it comes from Corded ware culture which spoke the ancestro langauge of Slavic and Baltic. so dont count that i guess some R1a Z284 in the rest of europe is from Germans but not in Finland.

Not all I1 is german. I1 in conteintal europe is I1a1, I1a3, I1a4, and I1b in scandnavia it is I1a2. i1a1, I1a3, i1a4, i1b is most popular in Germany so teh Germanic tribes would have spread some but the 4% i1a1, I1a3, I1a4, and I1b in crtet come on u think that is from Germans then where is teh R1b S21. that is teh question non of the people who think all I1 is german and nordic can answer if Germanss pread I1 in europe and I1 is so spread out where is teh R1b S21 it does not matter if the east germanics orignated ind enmark they would still have over 30% R1b s21.

please give a argument back about why r1b s21 is not spread out like I1 and why I1 is so popular in places like crete. u cant always give German migration as an excuse because where is the r1b s21. i belive this map is somewhat not accurate because of that.
 
wait R1a Z284 in scandnavia is NOT GERMANIC. it comes from Corded ware culture which spoke the ancestro langauge of Slavic and Baltic. so dont count that i guess some R1a Z284 in the rest of europe is from Germans but not in Finland.
.
Can you tell us where Germanic languages come from?
I thought it is IE language, which has beginning with first IE encroachment into central Europe with Corded Ware people.
I think we should be very careful assigning any specific language to Corded Ware Culture. Most likely they were IE speakers, but who knows if this proto language was closer German, Slavic, Dacian or even Latin. We are talking about 3,000 years before any of these languages were heard.
Assuming that Corded Ware people started with one language, their language diversified very quickly influenced by local substratum, over vast area.
 
wait R1a Z284 in scandnavia is NOT GERMANIC. it comes from Corded ware culture which spoke the ancestro langauge of Slavic and Baltic. so dont count that i guess some R1a Z284 in the rest of europe is from Germans but not in Finland.

My poor chap, you really don't understand much either about genetics or history. Germanic culture developed well after the Corded Ware culture. The Proto-Germanic period was the Nordic Bronze Age, but the first truly Germanic culture developed in the Iron Age. All the people who lived in Scandinavia before the Iron Age were incorporated into the nascent Germanic society. That includes all the Corded Ware settlers.

Not all I1 is german. I1 in conteintal europe is I1a1, I1a3, I1a4, and I1b in scandnavia it is I1a2. i1a1, I1a3, i1a4, i1b is most popular in Germany so teh Germanic tribes would have spread some but the 4% i1a1, I1a3, I1a4, and I1b in crtet come on u think that is from Germans then where is teh R1b S21.

What's the point discussing with someone who doesn't understand the difference between German and Germanic ? (and who doesn't care enough to write in a legible manner)
 
My poor chap, you really don't understand much either about genetics or history. Germanic culture developed well after the Corded Ware culture. The Proto-Germanic period was the Nordic Bronze Age, but the first truly Germanic culture developed in the Iron Age. All the people who lived in Scandinavia before the Iron Age were incorporated into the nascent Germanic society. That includes all the Corded Ware settlers.


i can understand ur angre all i did was criticize ur map. when u work very hard on making this maps and other things for this website. When i have only studied this stuff for a few months. U have studied it for probably alot longer and alot more seriously and have become an expert.


I never said Germanic culture devloped before corded ware. I am pretty sure i said the oppiste that Corded ware is much older than Germanic culture. I also know that Nordic bronze age people where most likley proto Germanic speakers i never siad they where not. also i said that The R1a Z284 people who where already in Scandinavia inter married with the Germans then probably spread it when Germanic tribes spread. To me it seemed like u where saying R1a Z284 was orignalley Germanic and that it came from proto Germanic people.

I still am skeptical about saying German speakers spread out of Denmark in the Iron age. A 3,000 year old R1b s21 sample was found in central Germany. I know they report it as R1b but i put its haplotype into subclade predictors all said 100% probabilty R1b s21. 3,000 years ago was very early Iron age and before the Germanic migrations out of Denmark happened. R1b s21 is the Germanic language's marker. R1b s21 would have orignated in central Europe probably Germany then spread to Denmark 4,000ybp i am pretty sure u would agree with those two points. Also the proto proto Germanic speakers would have lived in probably Germany 4,000-4,500ybp not Denmark. Also R1b s21 is more popular in Germany not Denmark and if the R1b s21 in Germany came from migrating Germanic tribes from Denmark u would see s much I1a2 in Germany as R1b s21. Because I1a2 is the Scandinavian I1 subclade. From what i have read from ur I1 page on this website and other sources I1 in Germany and Continental Europe is I1a1, I1a3, I1a4, and I1b not I1a2. So this means there is not alot of Y DNA in Germany of Danish migraters.

Also R1b s21 was already popular in Germany before iron age Danish German speakers ever migrated there. Since Proto proto German was spoken in central europe probably Germany and the pre German speaking people in Germany had mainly Germanic R1b s21. they would have spoken a very related language to German possibly west Germanic and east Germanic. According to what wikpedia says north Germanic, west Germanic, and east Germanic split only about 2,000-2,500ybp.

To me that sounds way to recent that means north Germanic had to off conquered Scandinavia at the same time west Germanic and east Germanic conquered areas of contental Europe. also if the first west Germanic and east Germanic speakers came from Denmark where is I1a2 in Germany and areas they migrated. i dont know anything about linguistics but if i was going by DNA i would conclude that most of modern Germany was already Germanic 3,000-4,000ybp.

also that there where no major migrations out of Denmark in the last 2,500 years. I honestly don't understand i know that it is true many Germanic tribes migrated out of Denmark but where is the DNA evidence is their any signs in archaeology that a people group in Germany was conquered by Germanic danish in the last 2,500 years. I think west Germanic and east Germanic developed in Germany and the Germanic language did not spread from Denmark to Germany in the last 2,500 years.
 
I have created a new map combining most Germanic lineages associated with the diffusion Germanic peoples from the Iron Age onwards. These includes Y-DNA haplogroups I1 (except some subclades of Finnish origin), I2-M223, R1a-Z284, R1b-U106, and R1b-L238.


Great Map, Maciamo. Genetic distribution never ceases to surprise me. I had always assumed the Germanic component of modern-day France would have had a North to South tapering rather than an East to West one.
 
I had always assumed the Germanic component of modern-day France would have had a North to South tapering rather than an East to West one.
Yep, me too.
 
What is the reason for the higher percentage of Germanic Y-DNA in north-western Sicily? Possibly the Normans or some completely unrelated migrations pre Germanic culture?
 
What is the reason for the higher percentage of Germanic Y-DNA in north-western Sicily? Possibly the Normans or some completely unrelated migrations pre Germanic culture?

Obviously the Normans.
 
Great Map, Maciamo. Genetic distribution never ceases to surprise me. I had always assumed the Germanic component of modern-day France would have had a North to South tapering rather than an East to West one.

It's very logical. Apart from Normandy, all the places with a strong Germanic influence border Germany, Switzerland and Belgium. The distribution matches the original borders of the Holy Roman Empire. The Nord, Alsace, Lorraine and Franche-Comté only became French in the 17th century.
 
so basically England is about 60 percent Germanic and 40 percent italo-celtic?
 
actually, normans where probably higher in u152, as they lived near the belgic triibes, who where loaded with u152, the hotspot of sicilian s21 may be explained by lombard influence, as the latter hailed from scania or northern germany.
 

This thread has been viewed 131398 times.

Back
Top