Kosovo

I don't understand you.
The albanian use a ruga term, this term is used for indicate the "street" but also the venetian used that term.
But where take that term? The albanian take a term from venetian and venetian take a term from french.
French (rua)->Venetian (rùga)->Albanian (ruga).
Now you have understand?
The link (http://www.veneziasi.it/it/curiosita-venezia/dialetto-veneziano.html) is just a explanatian where the venetian have take that term.
Rùga in venetian dialect is used for indicate the "large street" (vie abbastanza larghe).
You clearly do not know Italian, this abbastanza larghe means broad area ..........Ruga is not venetian for street, its most probably a fabricated term used in Albania by albanians. It has never been in use as a street from all the venetian archives I have read from the 13th century until today.

I don't understand your affermation, according to you the french,spanish and other are a young language because it have take "words" from other language (latin)??

it seems albanian took a lot of words from Italian which is a language artificially created by one man called Dante. Italian was never created by the community as the rest of the world in regards to languages. it was a language created by Dante for the merchant and artisian classes of Italy. the nobility spoke in Latin when they where communicating with different regions. And the peasants spoke the regional language. Dante created words with one meaning and people changed them over time to reflect other meanings. Like the word Bordello, in Dante's books it means noisy , the same as it is meant in venetian. because he borrowed it from Venetian. But in italian, Bordello means a brothel...........italians completely changed the original Dante meaning. They could have seen an 11th century meaning of a Borgo Ruga in veneto and saw a wide area of houses and shops and then the Italians changed it and said it was a wide street ......Italian vocambulary in very small compared to the regional languages. It does not even include all the latin letters.
 
How you can said young language??
What you mean for "young language"???
Albanian language is just a mix, don't is a new language.

Mix, yes, young mix.

Albanian is young language.

What some Albanians propagate that Albanian derives from the ancient Balkan languages ​​is construct an unrelated meanings, pseudoscience, not even it that let's be realistic.
 
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You clearly do not know Italian, this abbastanza larghe means broad area ..........Ruga is not venetian for street, its most probably a fabricated term used in Albania by albanians. It has never been in use as a street from all the venetian archives I have read from the 13th century until today.
Ok,ok the glossary is wrong, the book wite by it and pubblicate by mondadori ( i think by mondadori) is wrong and i don't know italian (y).




it seems albanian took a lot of words from Italian which is a language artificially created by one man called Dante. Italian was never created by the community as the rest of the world in regards to languages. it was a language created by Dante for the merchant and artisian classes of Italy. the nobility spoke in Latin when they where communicating with different regions. And the peasants spoke the regional language. Dante created words with one meaning and people changed them over time to reflect other meanings. Like the word Bordello, in Dante's books it means noisy , the same as it is meant in venetian. because he borrowed it from Venetian. But in italian, Bordello means a brothel...........italians completely changed the original Dante meaning. They could have seen an 11th century meaning of a Borgo Ruga in veneto and saw a wide area of houses and shops and then the Italians changed it and said it was a wide street ......Italian vocambulary in very small compared to the regional languages. It does not even include all the latin letters.
The italian language of italian is just an evolution of latin->vulgar latin->fiorentin.
And the language of nobility was the french or fiorentino.....and not "latin".
The french languange and fiorentino language was the language of "high class" (alias nobility), the nobles probably did not even know what was the latin :confused:.
The Italian is Italian, don't is 100% latin.
In Italian you can find word arab (like sciroppo->syrop in english),french or german.
But the Italian of today is in evolution.
Ex. Before people use the word "Tette" (for indicate the tits) and now "ziza" (take from sicilian dialect) or "vacca" and now "mucca".
The language is in continue evolution.
 
Mix, yes, young mix.

Albanian is young language.

What some Albanians propagate that Albanian derives from the ancient Balkan languages ​​is construct an unrelated meanings, pseudoscience, not even it that let's be realistic.

I don't know albanian language and i can't speak about it with a sure, but if the majority of words is latin probably the linguists will add to the latin group.
 
I don't know albanian language and i can't speak about it with a sure, but if the majority of words is latin probably the linguists will add to the latin group.

I have to disagree, sure the language has latin influence, but the language itself is a seperate branch and surely not in the latin group.
 
The italian language of italian is just an evolution of latin->vulgar latin->fiorentin.
And the language of nobility was the french or fiorentino.....and not "latin".
The french languange and fiorentino language was the language of "high class" (alias nobility), the nobles probably did not even know what was the latin :confused:.

Italian is not florentine, the florentines cannot even pronounce the letter c properly. The Tuscan areas which comes closest to Italian is south Tuscany Siena area. Lucca and Pisa speak lucchese dialect ( NW tuscany)

The Italian is Italian, don't is 100% latin.

Italian does not use all the latin alphabet so its not Latin

But the Italian of today is in evolution.
Ex. Before people use the word "Tette" (for indicate the tits) and now "ziza" (take from sicilian dialect) or "vacca" and now "mucca".
The language is in continue evolution.

( COW) Vacca is provenzal dialect from the area of catalonia, southern France and northern Italy.............it is still spoke in those areas today as well as Bovin is also in alpine Veneto
Mucca is a made up word by dante , its in the italian vocabulary, but its never used in the north, same with
(APPLE) mela in Italian and fabricated by Dante....POMO in north italy and shared by the french POM

Anyway to conclude, the albanian loan words from Italy are all sicilian, calabrese or apulian...maybe even a bit of Neapolitan.......but they all seem to come from when Albania was under Mussolini
 
I have to disagree, sure the language has latin influence, but the language itself is a seperate branch and surely not in the latin group.
But in fact is exat, albanian language don't derive from latin, but caused by latin empire they have large footprint of latin culture and this is impossible to deny evidence.
 
Italian is not florentine, the florentines cannot even pronounce the letter c properly. The Tuscan areas which comes closest to Italian is south Tuscany Siena area. Lucca and Pisa speak lucchese dialect ( NW tuscany)

The fiorentin dialect is consider a set of dialects, and after the union of Italy the dialect was the official language.
The fiorenti is a big component.
( COW) Vacca is provenzal dialect from the area of catalonia, southern France and northern Italy.............it is still spoke in those areas today as well as Bovin is also in alpine Veneto
Mucca is a made up word by dante , its in the italian vocabulary, but its never used in the north, same with
(APPLE) mela in Italian and fabricated by Dante....POMO in north italy and shared by the french POM
Ok, i think you have understand what i wanted to say about words like mucca or ziza.



Anyway to conclude, the albanian loan words from Italy are all sicilian, calabrese or apulian...maybe even a bit of Neapolitan.......but they all seem to come from when Albania was under Mussolini

Take from dialect of south? If you can confirmed that i acept that theory, but is very wrong.
The albanian languange don't is a copy of italian.....if the word latin are take from italian language surely they would speak half Italian (since the majority of the Latin words is in the Albanian language), but it is not.
Is impossible change the majority of languange in latin culture, the Mussolini's rule there was only a few years, if they did not succeed the Turks (the domination of turk dured 500 years) as may have been the regime of Mussolini?
 
The fiorentin dialect is consider a set of dialects, and after the union of Italy the dialect was the official language.
The fiorenti is a big component.
Florentine was not used, Dante's Italian was used. the king want piemontese and the church wanted Latin.
 
Take from dialect of south? If you can confirmed that i acept that theory, but is very wrong.
The albanian languange don't is a copy of italian.....if the word latin are take from italian language surely they would speak half Italian (since the majority of the Latin words is in the Albanian language), but it is not.
Is impossible change the majority of languange in latin culture, the Mussolini's rule there was only a few years, if they did not succeed the Turks (the domination of turk dured 500 years) as may have been the regime of Mussolini?

in skandenberg time, he was aligned with the kings/princes of Naples. they shared a lot of things including mercenaries.
Then the albanian stradioti was with the venetian, naples and french. But venetians did not speak italian then, it would be latin to the stradioti. All high ranking venetians spoke latin
 
But in fact is exat, albanian language don't derive from latin, but caused by latin empire they have large footprint of latin culture and this is impossible to deny evidence.[/QUOTe,Marko you are right, north albania has very very old latin,So did the southern albanian until they starting adopting the greek alphabet,,all albanians language once used latin,Still the arbanties of greece use some latin from the old times,,but mainly gheg albanians use latin,But hey theold people SUCH AS DACIANS,THRACIANS AN ILLYRIANS USED IT,,,
 
LeBrok
Yes, you’re right, democracy is the best solution.

But problems are complex and quick fixes are not good. Because for quick fixes in the longer terms result as the worst solutions.

Sparkley explained very clearly:



If someone cannot take account complexity of situation, Syria would quickly lost Shiites and all ethnic and religious groups that have supported Assad. You agree that it is not good solution.

Key decision makers can improve the ways how to solve complex problems. I think it is not good strategy win-lost, where one side gets all and another nothing. In a long term win-win solutions are the best.

You have an example of Kosovo. Before 1999 in Kosovo lived Serbs, Gorans, Roma etc. After 1999 Kosovo became ethnically pure Albanian.

It is not good for all, including Albanians. Today Kosovo is least developed part of Europe and very poor. Serbia has a lot invested in Kosovo and, for a time 20-30 years ago, Kosovo had a very rapid development. Sustainability is a problem in the long term. Kosovo today would have much better perspective that the Serbs remained.

And certainly it could be found a win-win solution. Complex problems require a longer time to solution but solutions are long-term and sustainable, quick solutions are wrong. And to reiterate what I said, democracy is the best way, but for democracy specific conditions must be created, it takes a more time and engagement, but leads to much better and more sustainable solutions.
Place was Albanian before the 90s . In 1912 Serbs barely made 10% of the population. Serb population increased from expelled Albanians and Serbian colonists. When was Kosovo ever part of Serbia except that some Serb medieval kingdom held it for 250 years which also Albania, Macedonia and others were too ? This territory certainly has never been part of Serbia for most of its history and never legally part of Serbia. This is nothing but some invention. Yet i laugh at all these who on maps draw it as part of Serbia. First time in my life i have seen someone claim a territory as an integral part of their country when it actually wasnt. Also interesting how you dont mention the expulsion of Albanians from the Toplica area which is how Kosovo ended up entirely Albanian . Why dont you talk about Vojvodina or the illegal creation of republika srpska. In Vojvodina youre 18th century refugees that settled in Hungarian territory
 
Maybe to refresh your mind a bit


Why on earth would someone argue a territory is part of their country when not only did they take it from someone else but they actually expelled people from other areas into that area which affected the demographics too haha
 
This was before the NATO bombing, from Malcolm:


Towns such as Decani and Junik were shelled by heavy artillery,
and in early June there were reports of villages being bombed
by Serbian aircraft. A similar campaign
was conducted in central Kosovo, with the ostensible purpose of
eliminating the strongholds of the KLA (which had abducted
and killed a number of Serb civilians and was claiming that it
controlled a large area of liberated territory.
By means of random shootings and artillery bombardments the
Serb forces emptied village after village of their inhabitants,
the houses were then looted and burnt and in many cases livestock were killed
and crops destroyed in the fields. Over a period of six months,
from April to Septemember 1998, more than 300 Albanian villages were
devastated in this way; aid agencies estimated that between
250,000 and 300,000 people were driven from their homes.


What had caused that crisis was a huge escalation in the use
of military force and other targets had continued during the winter
of 1997-98, but on a very limited scale: in the two years up to mid-January
1998, the KLA claimed to have killed five policemen, five other
Serbian officials and eleven Albanian 'collaborators' with the
Serbian regime.

Other European countries had experienced similar small scale campaigns
of politically motivated violence and had dealt with them using
normal police methods. But the response of the Serbian authorities
in this case was hugely disproportionate: and it was the nature
of this response which more than anything else pushed Kosovo into war.

On 28 February 1998, after a fire fight between Kosovar rebels
and Serb police in which four policemen had been shot dead, the
Serbian authorities launched an attack on two Albanian villages, using
military helicopters and armoured personnel carriers. In one
village, Likoshani, sixteen Albanians were killed; the police also looted
the houses they raided there. A few days later a similar military
assault against the village of Prekaz left fifty-one people dead:
the main target of this attack was the family house of Adem Jashari,
a local strongman who was said to be a commander of the KLA in that
region. The Serbian forces killed not only Jashari but also most of his
family: nearly half the victims were women, children and old men.
This action turned Adem Jashari into a hero and martyr in the eyes
of the local Albanians and encouragd large numbers of them to join
the KLA.


Further attacks on other villages in the Drenica region of central
Kosovo during the next few weeks had a similar effect, while also
creating a flood of refugees. The process by which Milosevic's
policy acted as the recruiting master for the KLA was now fully
under way.


Western governments reacted hesitantly and ineptly to these events.
Many observers believed indeed that Milosevic had actually been encouraged
to launch this campaign by the comments of an American diplomat,
Robert Gelbard, who had denounced the KLA as a terrorist group
on 23 february. On 9 March the contact group (USA, Russia, Britain,
France, Germany and Italy) threatened a limited package of sanctions,
such as visa restrictions and the blocking of investment
credits . If Milosevic did not change his policy within two weeks when
that deadline was reached, they then extended it by another month.
Milosevics only response was to widen the attacks on Albanian villages
and increase his military build up in the region.

The Threatened sanctions were eventually intoduced at the end of April.
Meanwhile a resolution of the UN Security council had imposed
an arms embargo, aimed at cutting off supplies to both
yugoslavia and the KLA. (Yugoslavia was however, a major arms producer
and had recently made a large purchase of arms from Russia;
the KLA was equipped mainly with small arms acquired from people who had
stolem them from weapon stores in Albania in 1997)

While the Western politicians debated these measures, Milosevic
was strengthening his own political position inside
Yugoslavia. In March he invited the radical nationalist politician
Vojuslav Seselj to join his government; Seselj was known for his extreme
views on the Kosovo question, having publicly advocated a policy
of infecting Kosovo Albanians with the Aids virus.
 
In mid January 1999 Western diplomacy was jolted once more
into action. The immediate cause was not the Serb military built,
but the discovery of a massacre at the village of Racak, where
forty-five Albanian civilians, including children, had been murdered.
Most had been shot in the head at close range with a single bullet,

and some of the bodies had been mutilated. When the head of
the verification mission publicly condemned the Serb forces for this
atrocity, the Belgrade authorities demanded his removal; they also
refused entry to the chief prosecutor of the International War
Crimes tribunal.
 
"During the first few days of the air-strike campaign, while NATO confined itself to the use of cruise missiles and high-altitude bombing, the Serbian forces inside Kosovo embarked on a massive campaign of destruction, burning down houses and using tanks and artillery to reduce entire villages to rubble."

In mid-March the peace talks resumed in France, and on the 18th of that month the Albanians finally signed the agreement. The Yugoslav delegation, on the other hand, boycotted the ceremony and declared its continuing opposition to the plan. Within Kosovo, meanwhile, the build up of Serbian military forces had itensified throughout February and early March. New army units and large numbers of tanks had been brought into the province; paramilitary forces controlled by the gangsterpolitican 'Arkan' were established at a site near the northern Kosovo town of Mitrovica, together with other groups known for their work as 'ethnic cleansers'. Milosevic had installed one of his most loyal army commanders, General Nebojsa Pavkovic (a relative by marriage), to direct these forces, and Pavkovic had immediately begun to intergrate his army units with the local special police forces, a move which clearly indicated that something other than a normal military operation was being planned. By 20 March, when the international 'verification mission' withdrew from Kosovo, there were more than 26,000 Serbian troops inside the province and another 15,000 stationed just beyond its eastern border. According to some reports, their deployment was in accordance with a strategic plan known as 'Operation Horseshoe', aimed at solving the Kosovo problem.
 
At first their actions were concentrated in three areas: in the north-eastern corner of Kosovo (securing
a wide corridor for the introduction of more forces into the province), in the Drenica region (where the KLA had its main strongholds),
and in a broad stretch of south-western Kosoovo, near the Albanian border. The significance of this third target soon became obvious:
the strategy was to clear a path for the mass expulsion of the Kosovo Albanian population. Two days after the air strikes began,
the first waves of deported people began flooding over the southern borders of Kosovo, into Albania and Macedonia.

Most had similar stories to tell, of a coordinated operation of 'ethnic cleansing' on a hitherto unprecedented scale.
Armed men had arrived at their houses - sometimes special police, sometimes paramilitary gangsters, in many cases
accompanied by local Serbs - and had ordered them to leave within minutes. An atmosphere of terror was created by
random killing of civilians in the streets; some houses were set on fire as the population was leaving,
and the rest would be first looted and then demolished when they had gone.

As they left the village they would be funnelled through a cordon of troops, who would rob them of their money and possessions.
Finally they would be told which route to take to the border. In many cases, however, not
all the inhabitants were allowed to leave: in a development chillingly reminiscent of
the seizure of Srebrenica in 1995, men were seperated from their families and taken away by
Serb forces.



The scale of this cleansing operation, and the coordination it displayed between Serbian military and police forces,
indicated a high degree of planning. This was clearly not a spontaneous response to
the NATO bombardment - though the air strikes may well have given Milosevic a
welcome opportunity to accelerate and extendthe actions he had already planned.

The main way in which this campaign of expulsion went beyond the ethnic cleansing of the
previous year was in its application to the major towns: the inhabitants of cities
such as Prishtina and Mitrovica, whose lives had been largely untouched
by the 1998 campaign, were now subjected to the same methods of intimidation and
deportation. Thousands of people were forced to board trains at Prishtina, which then
took them to the Macedonian border; they were packed so tightly into the waggons
that several elderly people died during the journey.

One especially sinister aspect of the
deportation campaign was the confiscation
of passports and identity papers: it was
reported that municipal registers of births
and deaths, and of land ownership, were also
being destroyed and refugees who were
allowed to leave the country in cars or
tractors were ordered to remove their
registration plates before crossing
the border.

The thinking behind this policy emerged
when, after the first week of the NATO
campaign, the Russian Prime Minister
Yevgeni Primakov obtained a ''peace proposal''
from Milosevic: this included an offer to
allow refugees to return to Kosovo, 'so long
as they are Yugoslav citizens'. The idea
was clearly to eliminate any proof of such
citizenship and then deny these 'non-citizens'
re-entry.

Serb nationalist propaganda claimed
that hundreds of thousands of Albanians
had crossed into Kosovo from Albania during
and after the Second World War; the claim
was baseless, but the physical evidence
was now being adjusted to fit it. In practical
terms, this meant that Milosevic was preparing
a fallback position: even if he were
eventually forced to accept the return of the Kosovars,
he would limit their numbers to whatever
total he found acceptable. In the last week
of April, diplomatic sources in Belgrade
reported that Serbian officials were
now magnanimously saying that they could 'manage'
a population of 600,000 Albanians in Kosovo - less
than one third of the previous populations.
 
it states tuscan with Sicilian influence is the language of Italy

http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingue_parlate_in_Italia
I would rather say that modern standard Italian is heir to Tuscan + Provencal (the latter mediated through the so-called rimatori siculo-toscani, who were basically the heirs of the troubadours at the Sicilian court of Frederick II).

By the way not once in my life I've referred to "tette" as "zizze". ;)
 

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