J2b1-M205 introduced to Eupedia

Haha nice dream you had there, you claim I am stupid and then post this baseless nonsense. I have shown you the ancient samples, they are all from Levant. J-M205 has never been found in iron age Dalmatia, it had nothing to do with illyrians and they predate Roman arrival in Balkans by 600+ years, go read some more.
What is baseless here? Everyone knows Phoenicians controlled Mediterranean Sea from Spain to Lebanon. Having colonies in Italy, Africa, and Spain. Not all ancient samples are from levant. After ancient Sidon 1600 BCE J2-M205 starts to appear in Imperial Roman bones. Gladiator in England and sample from central Rome at the beginning of Common Era around Christ. England and Rome are Levant for you ? After Phoenician domination of Mediterranean Sea Romans have take over and this line arrived among Illyrians in Balkan in time of Imperial Rome. We have multiple ancient DNA among Imperial Romans and Phoenicians. So its all confirmed by ancient DNA. You are trying to be disrespectful and trying to disrespect this haplogroup with your nonsense.
 
What is baseless here? Everyone knows Phoenicians controlled Mediterranean Sea from Spain to Lebanon. Having colonies in Italy, Africa, and Spain. Not all ancient samples are from levant. After ancient Sidon 1600 BCE J2-M205 starts to appear in Imperial Roman bones. Gladiator in England and sample from central Rome at the beginning of Common Era around Christ. England and Rome are Levant for you ? After Phoenician domination of Mediterranean Sea Romans have take over and this line arrived among Illyrians in Balkan in time of Imperial Rome. We have multiple ancient DNA among Imperial Romans and Phoenicians. So its all confirmed by ancient DNA. You are trying to be disrespectful and trying to disrespect this haplogroup with your nonsense.

Your claim about J-M205 being Illyrian and native to Balkans is baseless. The only person disrespecting this line is you because you prefer to make things up about it instead of accepting the truth.

Romans didn't go to England in 1600BC, the England sample I showed you is from 300AD+. That is why I said it was brought to Europe from Levant by the Romans -

Here is an article about it -

"One of the decapitated Romans had a markedly different story, however. Of Middle Eastern origin, he grew up in the region of modern day Palestine, Jordan or Syria before migrating to the British Isles and meeting his death in York."

"The Roman burial samples were all male, under 45 years old and most had evidence of decapitation. They were taller than average for Roman Britain and displayed evidence of significant trauma potentially related to interpersonal violence. All but one would have had brown eyes and black or brown hair but one had distinctive blue eyes and blond hair similar to the single Anglo-Saxon individual."
 
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Your claim about J-M205 being Illyrian and native to Balkans is baseless. The only person disrespecting this line is you because you prefer to make things up about it instead of accepting the truth.

Romans didn't go to England in 1600BC, the England sample I showed you is from 300AD+. That is why I said it was brought to Europe from Levant by the Romans -

Here is an article about it -

"One of the decapitated Romans had a markedly different story, however. Of Middle Eastern origin, he grew up in the region of modern day Palestine, Jordan or Syria before migrating to the British Isles and meeting his death in York."

"The Roman burial samples were all male, under 45 years old and most had evidence of decapitation. They were taller than average for Roman Britain and displayed evidence of significant trauma potentially related to interpersonal violence. All but one would have had brown eyes and black or brown hair but one had distinctive blue eyes and blond hair similar to the single Anglo-Saxon individual."
Its impossible to discuss with you because you are constantly making things up, and saying things i never said. You said all ancient samples are from Levant and therefore i have pointed you to the samples found in Europe. I never said J2-M205 is Illyrian or native to the Balkan. This is a pure lie you are projecting, i am saying entire time that J2-M205 is Phoenician when it comes up to the Mediterranean Sea, and when we talk about Balkan cluster of J2-M205 it expanded to Balkan with Roman Empire and its Punic in origin. For example we have cluster of J2-M205 in Ukraine and we assume it expanded there with Romans invading Sarmatian tribes. It also happened in time of Imperial Rome. So just as Ukraine branch of J2-M205 spread in Ukraine when Romans invaded Sarmatians or just as it spread in England when Romans invaded Brits, just like that it spread to Balkans when Romans invaded Illyrians. I have never ever said its native to the Balkan or its Illyrian this is your pathetic lie and attempt to disrespect this haplogroup. What is said is J2-M205 is native to the Mediterranean Sea and with being confirmed as one of original Phoenician lines it controlled Mediterranean Sea from Lebanon to the Spain having colonies in Italy Africa and Spain. You tried to disrespect this haplogroup by throwing various "Anatolian" and other theories when we have confirmed ancient DNA among Phoencians and Imperial Romans. This haplogroup is 7000 years on top of civilization as Jordan sample dates from time of Akkadian Empire. This haplogroup is literate and on top of civilization for 6000 years from Akkadian Empire to the Babylonians, Assyrians, Canaanites, Phoenicians, Romans, and ultimatly with Romans it spread to Europe to the bordera of Roman Empire as were Illyrians, Brits, or Sarmatians.. keep having complexes and issues because of your own insecurities and so go on and disrespect others.. very good behavior.
 
Its impossible to discuss with you because you are constantly making things up, and saying things i never said. You said all ancient samples are from Levant and therefore i have pointed you to the samples found in Europe. I never said J2-M205 is Illyrian or native to the Balkan. This is a pure lie you are projecting, i am saying entire time that J2-M205 is Phoenician when it comes up to the Mediterranean Sea, and when we talk about Balkan cluster of J2-M205 it expanded to Balkan with Roman Empire and its Punic in origin. For example we have cluster of J2-M205 in Ukraine and we assume it expanded there with Romans invading Sarmatian tribes. It also happened in time of Imperial Rome. So just as Ukraine branch of J2-M205 spread in Ukraine when Romans invaded Sarmatians or just as it spread in England when Romans invaded Brits, just like that it spread to Balkans when Romans invaded Illyrians. I have never ever said its native to the Balkan or its Illyrian this is your pathetic lie and attempt to disrespect this haplogroup. What is said is J2-M205 is native to the Mediterranean Sea and with being confirmed as one of original Phoenician lines it controlled Mediterranean Sea from Lebanon to the Spain having colonies in Italy Africa and Spain. You tried to disrespect this haplogroup by throwing various "Anatolian" and other theories when we have confirmed ancient DNA among Phoencians and Imperial Romans. This haplogroup is 7000 years on top of civilization as Jordan sample dates from time of Akkadian Empire. This haplogroup is literate and on top of civilization for 6000 years from Akkadian Empire to the Babylonians, Assyrians, Canaanites, Phoenicians, Romans, and ultimatly with Romans it spread to Europe to the bordera of Roman Empire as were Illyrians, Brits, or Sarmatians.. keep having complexes and issues because of your own insecurities and so go on and disrespect others.. very good behavior.

It's good that you have finally accepted it was brought to Europe by the Romans, if we get ancient DNA of J-M205 from iron age Europe it can be discussed again. You have disrespected yourself, I didn't do anything
 
It's good that you have finally accepted it was brought to Europe by the Romans, if we get ancient DNA of J-M205 from iron age Europe it can be discussed again. You have disrespected yourself, I didn't do anything
J2-M205 was not brought to Europe by Romans but its native to the Mediterranean Sea. You are twisting words because your own haplogroup arrived on Balkans as Serbs basically stealing lands from Illyrians so now you are trying to trash this haplogroup because i said its connected to Illyrians via Roman Empire
 
J2-M205 as being one of original Sidonian Phoenician lines colonized most of Mediterranean Sea including parts of Africa, Spain, and Italy. And it actually invaded Romans in Italy. Also both Latin and Greek alphabets have origin in ancient Phoenician alphabet. J2-M205 was not brought by Romans. But only after falling under Roman Republic it expanded further in Europe to the borders of Roman Empire.
 
J2-M205 was not brought to Europe by Romans but its native to the Mediterranean Sea. You are twisting words because your own haplogroup arrived on Balkans as Serbs basically stealing lands from Illyrians so now you are trying to trash this haplogroup because i said its connected to Illyrians via Roman Empire

It isn't connected to illyrians at all, was probably only in the region for a couple hundred years before Slavs moved in. As for stealing Illyrian lands the Romans did that in addition to killing thousands of them and bringing in people with your line. Your line was more Roman than Illyrian.

Not sure why you want to bring up my ydna when it has nothing to do with this topic. It isn't Serbian haha, it probably arrived in Albania with early Slavs but they weren't "Serbs" because Serbia didn't exist yet. Since you want to bring up my line for no reason it has been in Europe for 20,000+ years and was born here, it was Slavic for a short period of that time and looks like was part of the Urnfield (Lusatian) culture prior.
 
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It isn't connected to illyrians at all, was probably only in the region for a couple hundred years before Slavs moved in. As for stealing Illyrian lands the Romans did that in addition to killing thousands of them and bringing in people with your line. Your line was more Roman than Illyrian.

Not sure why you want to bring up my ydna when it has nothing to do with this topic. It isn't Serbian haha, it probably arrived in Albania with early Slavs but they weren't "Serbs" because Serbia didn't exist yet. Since you want to bring up my line for no reason it has been in Europe for 20,000+ years and was born here, it was Slavic for a short period of that time and looks like was part of the Urnfield (Lusatian) culture prior.
😅😅😅 ❤️
 
It isn't connected to illyrians at all, was probably only in the region for a couple hundred years before Slavs moved in. As for stealing Illyrian lands the Romans did that in addition to killing thousands of them and bringing in people with your line. Your line was more Roman than Illyrian.

Not sure why you want to bring up my ydna when it has nothing to do with this topic. It isn't Serbian haha, it probably arrived in Albania with early Slavs but they weren't "Serbs" because Serbia didn't exist yet. Since you want to bring up my line for no reason it has been in Europe for 20,000+ years and was born here, it was Slavic for a short period of that time and looks like was part of the Urnfield (Lusatian) culture prior.
J2-M205 shared Mediterranean Sea for thousand's of years with Italic tribes, Illyrians, Greeks and other Mediterranean population. The only reason why we didn't encounter Illyrians earlier is because they were a bit wild and prone to piracy instead of trading which Phoenicians preferred so we kinda avoided them. J2-M205 heavily influenced all Mediterranean people starting with educating them and learning them easy alphabet system which everyone could use and not complicated one as Linear A or B were of Greek origin. Both Greeks and Italians got educated by Phoenicians and influenced by J2-M205 culture. And when we talk about Romans in Illyria it's true that Romans have battled Illyrians and Illyrians in the end fall under Romans just as Phoenicians did but in the end we all shared same empire and lived within a borders of same empire. Actually it was emperor of Phoenician origin Caracalla who gave full rights and citizenship to Illyrians so they were equal to everyone else in Roman Empire and they could become Emperor's. Its actually probably Illyrian fault for Roman Empire to collapse because emperor of Illyrian origin Valens invaded Germanic tribes which were considered barbarians and died in Battle of Adrianople where he died with entire Roman army which marked beginning of end of Roman Empire and allowed various migration of people as Slavs , Magyars, Bulgars and others to arrive on Balkan. You wouldn't know that because your haplogroup was not even present here in that time. Go learn history please.
 
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Its impossible to discuss with you because you are constantly making things up, and saying things i never said. You said all ancient samples are from Levant and therefore i have pointed you to the samples found in Europe. I never said J2-M205 is Illyrian or native to the Balkan. This is a pure lie you are projecting, i am saying entire time that J2-M205 is Phoenician when it comes up to the Mediterranean Sea, and when we talk about Balkan cluster of J2-M205 it expanded to Balkan with Roman Empire and its Punic in origin. For example we have cluster of J2-M205 in Ukraine and we assume it expanded there with Romans invading Sarmatian tribes. It also happened in time of Imperial Rome. So just as Ukraine branch of J2-M205 spread in Ukraine when Romans invaded Sarmatians or just as it spread in England when Romans invaded Brits, just like that it spread to Balkans when Romans invaded Illyrians. I have never ever said its native to the Balkan or its Illyrian this is your pathetic lie and attempt to disrespect this haplogroup. What is said is J2-M205 is native to the Mediterranean Sea and with being confirmed as one of original Phoenician lines it controlled Mediterranean Sea from Lebanon to the Spain having colonies in Italy Africa and Spain. You tried to disrespect this haplogroup by throwing various "Anatolian" and other theories when we have confirmed ancient DNA among Phoencians and Imperial Romans. This haplogroup is 7000 years on top of civilization as Jordan sample dates from time of Akkadian Empire. This haplogroup is literate and on top of civilization for 6000 years from Akkadian Empire to the Babylonians, Assyrians, Canaanites, Phoenicians, Romans, and ultimatly with Romans it spread to Europe to the bordera of Roman Empire as were Illyrians, Brits, or Sarmatians.. keep having complexes and issues because of your own insecurities and so go on and disrespect others.. very good behavior.
Of course he makes things up or gets things wrong.
He gets his information from amateur rubbish on Youtube.
 
A couple of questions. First off, I'm new to this whole genetic stuff, so don't take my words too seriously, or like solid tesis or opinion.

1- If SNP tracker is a reliable tool, j-M205 seems clearly of fertile-crescent origin, and then a key factor in the ethnogenesis of canaanites and therefore phoenicians. From the map looks like phoenicians and other people from the sea should be the key factor for its spread. Am I wrong?
snp.png

2 - Is this sample from Sardinia j2b1-M205? If yes, the Sea People (sherdan) may be involved in its spread?


Thank you all for your time and your help.
 
We will be touching all subjects connected to J2-M205 here. From Akkadian Empire sending military expeditions to the modern Yemen and Oman 2500 BCE. To the Phoenicians, Greeks, Illyrians, Romans, Sarmatians, Brits, Iberians, and wherever J2-M205 is.

But when we talk about Balkan cluster of J2-M205 its absolutely connected to Illyrians because since it arrived on Balkans everything had to do with Illyrians in the time of Roman Empire. And its impossible to research Balkan J2-M205 without researching Illyrians in the time of Roman Empire. And we know Illyrians had all the benefits in the Roman Empire and produced many great emperor's. Many of these Illyrian emperor's birthplaces are today Slavic because of migration of people in early middle ages and arrival of Slavs. So that is exactly reason why most of Balkan J2-M205 samples are today assimilated into Serbs. But there is almost no doubt they were albanophone before and spoken Albanian language.
 
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A couple of questions. First off, I'm new to this whole genetic stuff, so don't take my words too seriously, or like solid tesis or opinion.

1- If SNP tracker is a reliable tool, j-M205 seems clearly of fertile-crescent origin, and then a key factor in the ethnogenesis of canaanites and therefore phoenicians. From the map looks like phoenicians and other people from the sea should be the key factor for its spread. Am I wrong?
View attachment 15324
2 - Is this sample from Sardinia j2b1-M205? If yes, the Sea People (sherdan) may be involved in its spread?


Thank you all for your time and your help.
Best way to study any haplogroup is to learn about all ancient samples found and also to analyze modern living population. I analysed all studies that were published where J2-M205 was found, also analyzed many studies where modern living population were tested searching for J2-M205 STRS marker's on Balkans, Italy, Greece, Middle East, and so on. Our oldest ancient DNA IS J2b* first Neolithic farmers from Zagros mountains. Looks like J2-M205 come down from Zagros mountains and conquest Fertile Crescent in Early Bronze Age together with J1 haplogroup and some other branches of J like some J2a's. Also it's connected with spread of Semitic language's. Since we have J2-M205 found in Sidon 1600 BCE that is ultimate proof that this line was one of original Phoenician lines. That is unquestionable since ancient DNA is most valuable proof you can have.
 
Best way to study any haplogroup is to learn about all ancient samples found and also to analyze modern living population. I analysed all studies that were published where J2-M205 was found, also analyzed many studies where modern living population were tested searching for J2-M205 STRS marker's on Balkans, Italy, Greece, Middle East, and so on. Our oldest ancient DNA IS J2b* first Neolithic farmers from Zagros mountains. Looks like J2-M205 come down from Zagros mountains and conquest Fertile Crescent in Early Bronze Age together with J1 haplogroup and some other branches of J like some J2a's. Also it's connected with spread of Semitic language's. Since we have J2-M205 found in Sidon 1600 BCE that is ultimate proof that this line was one of original Phoenician lines. That is unquestionable since ancient DNA is most valuable proof you can have.
Thank you Dema as always.
Right now I can't afford big Y.

Is there some kind of cheaper test that can help you guys, that I can do to figure out something more?
 
Thank you Dema as always.
Right now I can't afford big Y.

Is there some kind of cheaper test that can help you guys, that I can do to figure out something more?
Not really, if you can do BigY and upload results to Yfull is the best. That would be awesome
 
Not really, if you can do BigY and upload results to Yfull is the best. That would be awesome
Damn...I fear this will take a lot of time.
 

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