I2a-Din came to the Balkans and Dinaric Alps with the Thracians, Dacians & Illyrians

[LeBrok]

Slavic superiority no I don't believe in such thing I am not Hitler to be speaking of "Master-Races" as no such thing exists. "Dominance", yes now we are talking. With over 360 million people strong, Slavs are the largest ethnic-linguistic group in all of Europe showing a certain "Dominance" in this region of the world. This is all facts that you are clearly not amused by. However, this is your problem not mine.

Keep going along with your sucky attitude and it will be your problem soon.

 

[Milan.M]

Garick@ here is some thread you might be interested http://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...ve-in-prehistoric-Slavs-and-other-fairy-tales

 

[Garrick]

Garick@ here is some thread you might be interested http://www.eupedia.com/forum/thread...ve-in-prehistoric-Slavs-and-other-fairy-tales

No, I didn't think about it, and that you do not misunderstand me, I didn't not think about any of the threads open in Eupedia about the Slavs. I thought about something new, I found one interesting scientific paper of Polish scientists. It is not too demanding, and in some things is probably wrong because authors are not from the field of genetic genealogy, but anyway it is interesting to open of debate.

 

[Milan.M]

Post it then.. I hope is not again the Bastarnae and I2a din.That one was from Florin Curta,archeologist and historian for south east Europe.

 

[Garrick]

Post it then.. I hope is not again the Bastarnae and I2a din.That one was from Florin Curta,archeologist and historian for south east Europe.

No, nothing to do with I-CTS10228. And Curta is not mentioned. It is about R1a, warriors and nobility related to Poland.

 

[Tomenable]

I really didnt want do this to a Pole, how can you push this agenda of yours and empower Albanians reading in this forum to believe your "theory"? You are R1B. I2A-Din not your haplogroup. Western spys.

How did you call me?! A Western spy?! :annoyed:

No, I'm not a Western spy. The Piast dynasty were R1b. Real Kingslavs were R1b, not I2a-Din:

 

[MOESAN]

Many Ukrainians are dark-haired, dark-eyed too. Your point is invalid. There is no such thing as a "pure Slav".

Not counting the women with dyed fake hair color or old people with grey hair(most of them were brunet too), but these people(Ukrainians) are mainly brunet:

Ukrainians

These are crowd-pictures so there is no cherrypicking.

It would be off topic, otherwise I would have answered you about your "pigmentation concepts" - all the way, Uraina is vaste and subergional differences exist, evidently -

 

[Garrick]

Garrick, I am neither pro or against your conjecture. I am just saying that is pretty hard to confirm it with the actual state of the data, that is all. Genetic claims require genetic facts, which for the moment are lacking.

Yes, Russian scientist in correspondence confirmed me that I-CTS10228 was part of genetic fund of Thracians/Dacians before Slavs. Russian science has very solid foundations for it. Although investigations didn't do, it will be found in investigations. Somewhere in Dacia, Moesia, Dardania etc before 6th century this haplogroup will be found. Therefore all who write whole haplogroup I-CTS10228 as I2a-Slav write stupidity.

When science definitely find and confirm this, it means people who lived in the Dacia or as Free Dacian tribes (todays Romanians, Moldavians, Tosks etc) at least in one part they didn't acquire this haplogroup from Slavs. It is same for part of I-CTS10228 population of today's Bulgarians, Serbs etc.

 

[Bergin]

Yes, Russian scientist in correspondence confirmed me that I-CTS10228 was part of genetic fund of Thracians/Dacians before Slavs. Russian science has very solid foundations for it. Although investigations didn't do, it will be found in investigations. Somewhere in Dacia, Moesia, Dardania etc before 6th century this haplogroup will be found. Therefore all who write whole haplogroup I-CTS10228 as I2a-Slav write stupidity.

When science definitely find and confirm this, it means people who lived in the Dacia or as Free Dacian tribes (todays Romanians, Moldavians, Tosks etc) at least in one part they didn't acquire this haplogroup from Slavs. It is same for part of I-CTS10228 population of today's Bulgarians, Serbs etc.

The evidence you are mentioning regarding this Russian scientist I suppose will be published soon.
If so, such paper will probably be discussed and interpreted in depth in the forum.

In meantime, the published works regarding ancient Thracians DNA don't show any evidence of I2a-din (or direct ancestor). Do you agree?

 

[Kingslav]

How did you call me?! A Western spy?! :annoyed:

No, I'm not a Western spy. The Piast dynasty were R1b. Real Kingslavs were R1b, not I2a-Din:

Understand this, R1B was and always will be a minority group in Slavic lands as it was RAVAGED towards the west direction many times in the history. I2A-DIN and R1A is dominant lineages in Slavic lands. Can a Slav be R1B? Sure we will accept them but they are still MINORITY. Your attempt to connect the dynasty of Polish Kings to R1B is unfounded. Ancient populations haplogroups show much differences and diversity to modern populations and this is TRUE not only in Poland but in ALL countries and every historian knows this. The Romanov dynasty in Russia was believed to be R1B does this make all Russians R1B? No. Once again, Walery Jan Slawek 19th Prime Minister of Poland is my GREAT UNCLE and I can assure you he was NOT an R1B. I think bringing Boris the Slav and Youtube Vlogger into this might have something to do with being minority Slav, I could be wrong but I doubt it. - Kingslav

 

[Fatherland]

Haplo-supremacists, this is a laughing matter.

 

[Kingslav]

During the 18th, 19th and part of 20th centuries when Russia, Austro-Hungary, Prussia divided Polish Commonwealth among their "ambitious" selves, they tried refer to my ancestors living south of Carpathian Mountains (Podkarpackie) as RUSYNS or RUTHENIANS. Here is some info on Rusyns.

" Their language, called Rusyn or Ruthenian, is a variety of East Slavic and is spoken in Lemko, Hutsul, Boyko/Bojkian, Sjan, and Transcarpathian/Verchovyna dialects.

Their traditional religions for centuries have been Eastern Orthodoxy and Greek Catholicism.

It's believed that the Rusyns descend from multiple old tribes including White Croats, Rus', and Vlachs.

It is interesting to add that according to some American documents from the beginning of 20th century there were about 100,000 immigrants to the US born around Kraków (Southern Poland) who declared themselves to be Bielo-Chorvats, i.e. White Croats by nationality."

Among Rusyn members of the "Carpatho-Rusyn Heritage DNA Project", these are among the Y-DNA haplogroups:

• E-L117 from some with ancestors from Slovakia and Ukraine,
• E-L142 from some with ancestors from Ukraine and Poland,
• E-L542 from some with ancestors from Ukraine, Poland, and Slovakia,
• I-M170 from some with ancestors from Ukraine and Slovakia,
• I-P37 from some with ancestors from Ukraine, Poland, and Slovakia,
• R-M198 from some with ancestors from Slovakia,
• R-M269 from some with ancestors from Slovakia and Poland,
• R-M512 from some with ancestors from Slovakia, Czechia, Poland, and Ukraine,
• R-Z283 from some with ancestors from Slovakia and Ukraine,
• R-SRY10831 from some with ancestors from Ukraine and Poland,
• and I-CTS10228, R-Z280, and several more.

- Rusyn Genetics, Khazaria.com

My ancestors descended from Vlachs which is opposing Tomenable earlier statement that Poles do not descend from Vlachs. Also no R1B was found among these southern POLISH/ UKRAINIANS. Even some haplogroup E was found but definitely no R1B here.

 

[LeBrok]

It is interesting to add that according to some American documents from the beginning of 20th century there were about 100,000 immigrants to the US born around Kraków (Southern Poland) who declared themselves to be Bielo-Chorvats, i.e. White Croats by nationality."

This is because Austro-Hungarian empire called conquered parts of Poland, White Croatia. According to A-H policy they didn't conquer Poland, but they liberated White Croats from polish occupation. This was their political game, that's all. Before this there was no polish historical sources about White Croat minority in Poland. A-Hs created White Croats in Poland. Polish people from Krakow had in their A-H documents written White Croats instead of Polish ethnicity. This document was presented to emigration authorities in NY city at their arrival. That's why they wrote White Croats as their ethnicity and not Polish. Most emigrants didn't speak any English, so they couldn't correct this mistake.
So many people are confused about this now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austria-Hungary#/media/File:Railway_map_Austria-Hungary.png

My ancestors descended from Vlachs which is opposing Tomenable earlier statement that Poles do not descend from Vlachs. Also no R1B was found among these POLISH/ UKRAINIANS. Even some haplogroup E was found but definitely no R1B here.

Maybe so, but they couldn't be Slavs. Vlach communities spoke Roman language, or form of it like Romanians (Walachia). All Slavs called Roman speaking communities Wlochy (Vlachy). All Slavs still call Italy, Wlochy. Vlachs were Roman (pig latin) speaking, not Slavic.

 

[Kingslav]

This sample is from the 900s, so 250-350 years after Slavic expansions in Poland. But the 900s is definitely long before any Vlach immigration to Poland. So I2a-Din was in Medieval Poland before any Vlachs.

Can you elaborate more on your theory of I2A-DIN emerging from Polesian swamp marshes? The 1 you posted earlier anthrogenica.com with hand-drawn map very intriguing theory also second part of my question is how did Rusyns (my ancestors) descend from Vlachs if there was no Vlachs in medieval Poland according to your observations? Thanks - Kingslav

 

[Fire Haired14]

Yes, Russian scientist in correspondence confirmed me that I-CTS10228 was part of genetic fund of Thracians/Dacians before Slavs.

Did these Russians scientist take DNA from Thracian/Dacian bones?

 

[LeBrok]

Did these Russians scientist take DNA from Thracian/Dacian bones?

I find this unlikely. Why would concentrate on Thracian and Dacians from all the sites? Besides, they have their own vast territory to genetically survey, and funds are very limited.

 

[Fire Haired14]

Many Ukrainians are dark-haired, dark-eyed too. Your point is invalid. There is no such thing as a "pure Slav".

Not counting the women with dyed fake hair color or old people with grey hair(most of them were brunet too), but these people(Ukrainians) are mainly brunet:

These are crowd-pictures so there is no cherrypicking.

Most of those Ukrainians looks like they could be Vladimir Putin's brother, they definitely fit the Eastern European sterotype. The president of Poland looks so similar he could be Vladimir Putin's brother as well. In Wisconsin, I vacation there in the summer, there's lots of Polish immigrants and lots of them also have this typical Slavic look. Even though they have the same pigmentation as British-German-Swedish Americans it is easy to recognize who is a Polish immigrant. I see it in a lot of Yugoslavs in my neighborhood as well.

That interests me because it indicates EEF-WHG-Steppe stuff can't explain everything, there could Slavic-specific traits that people in Ireland with a similar EEF-WHG-Steppe makeup don't share.

 

[Kingslav]

This is because Austro-Hungarian empire called conquered parts of Poland, White Croatia. According to A-H policy they didn't conquer Poland, but they liberated White Croats from polish occupation. This was their political game, that's all. Before this there was no polish historical sources about White Croat minority in Poland. A-Hs created White Croats in Poland. Polish people from Krakow had in their A-H documents written White Croats instead of Polish ethnicity. This document was presented to emigration authorities in NY city at their arrival. That's why they wrote White Croats as their ethnicity and not Polish. Most emigrants didn't speak any English, so they couldn't correct this mistake.
So many people are confused about this now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austria-Hungary#/media/File:Railway_map_Austria-Hungary.png


Maybe so, but they couldn't be Slavs. Vlach communities spoke Roman language, or form of it like Romanians (Walachia). All Slavs called Roman speaking communities Wlochy (Vlachy). All Slavs still call Italy, Wlochy. Vlachs were Roman (pig latin) speaking, not Slavic.

My first language Polish I know what means Wloch, it refers to modern Italians but is loosely thrown term that also refers to Wlosi root word of HAIR in my language, which we use to refer any dark haired people as slang. When I discussed with my father regarding his grandfather my greatgrandfather who lived in Bukovina and identified as Bulgarian, my father referred to him being Wloch which means "dark and hairy". Also White Croats defended southern border of Poland for centuries and never moved from this place despite bloodshed. They are I2A-DIN SLAVS. R1B is minority group in slavic lands I will repeat. Issue of Vlachs is issue of I2A-DIN some consider Slavic others not. This thread we talk about this issue. But the VLACHS I descend from identify as SLAVS and nothing else.

 

[LABERIA]

This Russian scientist, have a name?

 

[Kingslav]

Another question, if these White Croats my grandfather who was born Bukovina, Romania never identify Polish why would they fight for Poland during WW2 and consequentially take refuge in Southern Poland when the new borders were drawn 1945? Polish person is mixed-slavic person, check my oracle the answers are infront of you. If White-Croats wasnt Polish as you are claiming maybe in profile I would have flag Croatia, or Romania maybe Bulgaria, but that clearly not the scenario here I was born POLE.