• Don't want to see ads? Install an adblocker like uBlock Origin or use a Europe-based privacy-friendly browser like Vivaldi or Mullvad.

Genetics of the Greek Peleponessus

cybernautic said:
My point was that it might have been native to Greece but it wasn't native to the Peloponnese at the beginning
but to more Northern parts of Greece Thessaly,Epiros and arrived from there to the Peloponnese.

Just one possibility

Another thing which might be interesting is that there exists a specific EV13 clade in the Cyclades which is found only there as it seems.
Click to expand...

I am sceptic about the one in Cyclades. It could be a recent mutation. It may be that our sample size is very small. It could be a certain colonisation of the islands before the Mycenaean period. Sample sizes make conclusions with that accuracy problematic
 
Peter3467 said:
I am sceptic about the one in Cyclades. It could be a recent mutation. It may be that our sample size is very small. It could be a certain colonisation of the islands before the Mycenaean period. Sample sizes make conclusions with that accuracy problematic
Click to expand...

You might take a look at the thread about EV13 here for further information about this clade
 
Peter3467 said:
I meant that I am sceptic about the sample size and it's verification. I do not trust Eupedia for such in depth analysis.
Click to expand...
You don?t trust anything, not even the most basic facts about parent clades and younger clades splitting off from them.

But we?re supposed to trust everything you say. Even the long tiring comments without paragraphs.

Arent you supposed to be knowledgeable first in order to distrust/disprove someone else?s opinion?
 
Dushman said:
You don�t trust anything, not even the most basic facts about parent clades and younger clades splitting off from them.

But we�re supposed to trust everything you say. Even the long tiring comments without paragraphs.

Arent you supposed to be knowledgeable first in order to distrust/disprove someone else�s opinion?
Click to expand...

1) Sorry about the paragraphs.

2) I most definitely do not demand expect or hope you fully trust what I am saying. Doubt, questioning and criticism are important

3) I never questioned the science behind the subclade in the Cyclades. If you read my dialogue with cybernautic you'll see that I questioned the sample size which lead to that conclusion

4) Questioning and trusting are two different things. I don't think Cybernautic lied, I genuinely think there is this subclade of E v13 which according to people who shared their results and willingly talked about them is only found there. I questioned though the sample size, the geographic location ( some Cyclades islands have had a history of re Population and have been anything but isolated From the mainland).

5) If you want to question anything I've said, I would be more than happy to hear it. This is why I wrote it after all in this forum. Not for everyone to agree with it, but for someone to criticize it so we can have a discussion.
 
In the modern Peloponnese there seems to have been an increase in Slavic and Levantine ancestry in relation to ancient Minoan and Mycenean samples. But apparently there was somewhere between 50% continuity, which is quite a lot.



[TH="class: singleheader, colspan: 2, align: left"]Target: Greek_Peloponnese
Distance: 1.8607% / 0.01860665
[/TH]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]32.6[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Corded_Ware_POL[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]23.6[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]GRC_Minoan_EBA[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]22.4[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]GRC_Mycenaean[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]21.4[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Levant_Ashkelon_LBA[/TD]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]Greek_Peloponnese[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFB700, align: right"]0.06417624[/TD]
[TD]GRC_Mycenaean[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF0600, align: right"]0.09880740[/TD]
[TD]GRC_Minoan_EBA[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF0041, align: right"]0.11279586[/TD]
[TD]Levant_Ashkelon_LBA[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #D300FF, align: right"]0.15870429[/TD]
[TD]Corded_Ware_POL:N49[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]GRC_Mycenaean[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFE700, align: right"]0.05467739[/TD]
[TD]GRC_Minoan_EBA[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF0004, align: right"]0.10080089[/TD]
[TD]Levant_Ashkelon_LBA[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]0.21222048[/TD]
[TD]Corded_Ware_POL:N49
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
Mineiro25 said:
In the modern Peloponnese there seems to have been an increase in Slavic and Levantine ancestry in relation to ancient Minoan and Mycenean samples. But apparently there was somewhere between 50% continuity, which is quite a lot.

[TH="class: singleheader, colspan: 2, align: left"]Target: Greek_Peloponnese
Distance: 1.8607% / 0.01860665
[/TH]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]32.6[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Corded_Ware_POL[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]23.6[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]GRC_Minoan_EBA[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]22.4[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]GRC_Mycenaean[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]21.4[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Levant_Ashkelon_LBA[/TD]
[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]Greek_Peloponnese[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFB700, align: right"]0.06417624[/TD]
[TD]GRC_Mycenaean[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF0600, align: right"]0.09880740[/TD]
[TD]GRC_Minoan_EBA[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF0041, align: right"]0.11279586[/TD]
[TD]Levant_Ashkelon_LBA[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #D300FF, align: right"]0.15870429[/TD]
[TD]Corded_Ware_POL:N49[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]GRC_Mycenaean[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFE700, align: right"]0.05467739[/TD]
[TD]GRC_Minoan_EBA[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF0004, align: right"]0.10080089[/TD]
[TD]Levant_Ashkelon_LBA[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]0.21222048[/TD]
[TD]Corded_Ware_POL:N49
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Click to expand...
This modeling makes no sense. If you are going to regurgitate clichés from misinformed people from Anthrogenica, you're not impressing anyone. G25's modern populations were even dismissed by Davidiski himself, for inaccuracies.
 
Jovialis said:
This modeling makes no sense. If you are going to regurgitate clichés from misinformed people from Anthrogenica, you're not impressing anyone. G25's modern populations were even dismissed by Davidiski himself, for inaccuracies.
Click to expand...
They shouldn't include Minoans. That is the mistake.
 
ihype02 said:
They shouldn't include Minoans. That is the mistake.
Click to expand...
Myceaneans can be modeled with Minoans in and of themselves. But also, I seriously doubt LBA_Ashkelon is a viable source as well. 21% is ludicrous, there's no way that is close to accurate.
 
Jovialis said:
Myceaneans can be modeled with Minoans in and of themselves. But also, I seriously doubt LBA_Ashkelon is a viable source as well. 21% is ludicrous, there's no way that is close to accurate.
Click to expand...
Most Middle Eastern DNA in European Greeks must be of Anatolian origin by a historical perspective not Levantine.
 
ihype02 said:
Most Middle Eastern DNA in European Greeks must be of Anatolian origin by a historical perspective not Levantine.
Click to expand...
Indeed, historic and prehistoric, which would be overwhelmingly Anatolian_N, and CHG.
 
Jovialis said:
This modeling makes no sense. If you are going to regurgitate clichés from misinformed people from Anthrogenica, you're not impressing anyone. G25's modern populations were even dismissed by Davidiski himself, for inaccuracies.
Click to expand...

Eurogenes' minions never give up. Or perhaps it's him.:)

Anything to try to show it's Corded Ware people who came to Greece, whom, from all we know, seem to have gone north and west not south, and not people from, say, Catacomb culture or down the western side from Central Europe. Also, since ancient Greeks are so close to Southern Italians, we've got to get Levant in there somewhere, or they've been wrong for close to a decade.

This is presupposing, in terms of Levant Ashkelon, that, for them to represent the ancestry of modern Greeks, a tidal wave of them went to Greece, in a movement undocumented in the history and archaeology.

Shades of the Etruscans. :) They never tire of being wrong.
 
We can now see pretty clearly the extent of Albanian influence on the Peloponnese. Arvanites are getting 3rd cousins in Vlore, majority of modern Peloponnesians are not. Even my family is from a town with a (supposedly) Arvanitic name in the center of Morea. No matches with Albania, but plenty with Sicily and Calabria. I don't want to downplay Albanian role in the modern history of Peloponnese. But it looks to me it's somewhat settled that their influence far outweighed their numbers.
 
Theotokopoulos said:
We can now see pretty clearly the extent of Albanian influence on the Peloponnese. Arvanites are getting 3rd cousins in Vlore, majority of modern Peloponnesians are not. Even my family is from a town with a (supposedly) Arvanitic name in the center of Morea. No matches with Albania, but plenty with Sicily and Calabria. I don't want to downplay Albanian role in the modern history of Peloponnese. But it looks to me it's somewhat settled that their influence far outweighed their numbers.
Click to expand...

I don’t know what you see in your end, but on my side Peloponnesus comes closest than Laberia.


Sent from my iPhone using Eupedia Forum
 
According to the Updated version of the Dodecad K12b modern coordinates, Peloponnese are to the direct "East" of me. At a 7-plus distance:

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]Jovialis[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #F0FF00, align: right"]7.06623662[/TD]
[TD]Greek_Peloponnese

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

tfdj5uo.png
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top