Genetic Origins of Minoans and Mycenaeans

[kingdavid]

One R1b was found in Ambracia, in Classical Greece (unpublished result). On the mtDNA side, several haplogroup H samples were found, and one haplogroup W. It would not be surprising to find more R1b in Classical Greece or later, given how widespread it is.

Do you know the other y haplogroups
From classical greece ( unpublished) ?

P.s
Should be e-v13 and j2 ..

 

[Ralphie Boy]

Do you know the other y haplogroups
From classical greece ( unpublished) ?
P.s
Should be e-v13 and j2 ..

None yet except for the one R1b sample shared by another Eupedia member in a video, that I posted above. It was also said some R1b was found in Mycenaeans.

Eurogenes says some unpublished classical Greece samples are heterogenous but he will not provide any details (except for some close to Cyprus). Heterogenous how, I wonder, south to north, closer to Levant or Caucasus, more west or northwest, etc?

 

[Dianatomia]

Eurogenes says some unpublished classical Greece samples are heterogenous but he will not provide any details (except for some close to Cyprus). Heterogenous how, I wonder, south to north, closer to Levant or Caucasus, more west or northwest, etc?

The outliers would probably be close to the MBA North Greek samples all the way to samples which are close to Cyprus.

Do we have Autosomal DNA of the unpublished Greek sample? Or just the haplogroup? When will the research be published?

 

[Jovialis]

The outliers would probably be close to the MBA North Greek samples all the way to samples which are close to Cyprus.

Do we have Autosomal DNA of the unpublished Greek sample? Or just the haplogroup? When will the research be published?

Indeed, autosomal context is important. I'd imagine Iran_N/CHG is far more likely, than Levantine input. Based on what we have already seen. For example, the Greek input in Calabria and the rest of Southern Italy in Sarno et al. 2021 shows Iran_N/CHG input, not Levantine.

 

[kingdavid]

None yet except for the one R1b sample shared by another Eupedia member in a video, that I posted above. It was also said some R1b was found in Mycenaeans.

Eurogenes says some unpublished classical Greece samples are heterogenous but he will not provide any details (except for some close to Cyprus). Heterogenous how, I wonder, south to north, closer to Levant or Caucasus, more west or northwest, etc?

r1b is the alpha male of ancient remains
we see it everywhere and in high number dominant

 

[Jovialis]

Indeed, autosomal context is important. I'd imagine Iran_N/CHG is far more likely, than Levantine input. Based on what we have already seen. For example, the Greek input in Calabria and the rest of Southern Italy in Sarno et al. 2021 shows Iran_N/CHG input, not Levantine.

Greek colonization began to slowly accrue between 800 BC - 700 BC:

 

[Ralphie Boy]

The outliers would probably be close to the MBA North Greek samples all the way to samples which are close to Cyprus.

Do we have Autosomal DNA of the unpublished Greek sample? Or just the haplogroup? When will the research be published?

Eurogenes says (just trying to report, not giving or taking away validity) that a study should come out soon, showing Greek DNA from different ancient periods and the Middle Ages. Looking very forward to it, but we know these studies take a long time.

To my knowledge the material I referenced above shows only uniparental markers, though the screenshot I took of the video says aDNA. Here is the video from which the samples came.

https://youtu.be/HGKZKoH4yv0

Eurogenes does say that the Classical Greek DNA samples are broadly Mycenaean and Anatolia/Levant, but heterogenous. When asked if there is overlap with modern Greeks, he said Slavs came from the north and did not give a direct yes or no answer.

 

[Constantine]

I honestly don't see them being in any great hurry to release Classical Greek samples (at least legit ones).

 

[D.L.M]

Eurogenes says (just trying to report, not giving or taking away validity) that a study should come out soon, showing Greek DNA from different ancient periods and the Middle Ages. Looking very forward to it, but we know these studies take a long time.
To my knowledge the material I referenced above shows only uniparental markers, though the screenshot I took of the video says aDNA. Here is the video from which the samples came.
https://youtu.be/HGKZKoH4yv0
Eurogenes does say that the Classical Greek DNA samples are broadly Mycenaean and Anatolia/Levant, but heterogenous. When asked if there is overlap with modern Greeks, he said Slavs came from the north and did not give a direct yes or no answer.

Yes you took the words from my mouth. When he was asked about whenever there will be some sort of a northern shift in Classical Greeks he a left a vague response: "from the north came the Slavs".
He also said that most Balkan samples are like the Thracian sample but with more Steppe. Probably not refering to old Greek samples he has seen.

I am not so sure that is the same study (in the Youtube link) that Davidski is talking about.

 

[Bill7]

Yes you took the words from my mouth. When he was asked about whenever there will be some sort of a northern shift in Classical Greeks he a left a vague response: "from the north came the Slavs".
He also said that most Balkan samples are like the Thracian sample but with more Steppe. Probably not refering to old Greek samples he has seen.
I am not so sure that is the same study (in the Youtube link) that Davidski is talking about.

But eurogenes wasn't the guy that claimed that mycaeneans were going to turn out pure corded ware and yamnaya like? Should his words taken for granted?

 

[D.L.M]

But eurogenes wasn't the guy that claimed that mycaeneans were going to turn out pure corded ware and yamnaya like? Should his words taken fot granted?

He has seen the samples but that might not be the full picture. Maybe those were just from Peloponnese or the South.
Nobodies predictions should be taken for granted. Most people thought years ago that I2a was mostly Illyrian in Dalmatia and that turned out to be a big error. I used to suspect that Bronze Age Sicilians were very close to old Greeks before the colonization that turned out to be false.

 

[kingdavid]

I wonder how davidski knows
All this
..
Does he got friends in those labs
That leak information for him ....


p.s
i wish i would have this kind of friends

 

[Bill7]

He has seen the samples but that might not be the full picture. Maybe those were just from Peloponnese or the South.
Nobodies predictions should be taken for granted. Most people thought years ago that I2a was mostly Illyrian in Dalmatia and that turned out to be a big error. I used to suspect that Bronze Age Sicilians were very close to old Greeks before the colonization that turned out to be false.

I see we will wait to see the full picture my prediction is that iron age Greeks are going to be mycaenean like maybe with an extra 5-15% steppe plus some anatolian admixture I guess

 

[bigsnake49]

Yes you took the words from my mouth. When he was asked about whenever there will be some sort of a northern shift in Classical Greeks he a left a vague response: "from the north came the Slavs".
He also said that most Balkan samples are like the Thracian sample but with more Steppe. Probably not refering to old Greek samples he has seen.

I am not so sure that is the same study (in the Youtube link) that Davidski is talking about.

The study in the Youtube video is from Ambrakia, a colony of the Corinthians in Epirus. There were only two Y-DNA haplogroups identified, one r1b and the other G. There was damage to the other male samples so they could not determine their haplogroup.

 

[kingdavid]

The study in the Youtube video is from Ambrakia, a colony of the Corinthians in Epirus. There were only two Y-DNA hapless identified, one r1b and the other G. There was damage to the other male samples.

thanks
so it was cornithian colony :cool-v:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambracia
but 2 samples is extremely low number
bummer :sad-2:

 

[bigsnake49]

thanks
so it was cornithian colony :cool-v:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambracia
but 2 samples is extremely low number
bummer :sad-2:

Yeah, people don't understand how few samples are actually usable from all the tombs. Then you have funding issues and graduate student schedules, etc.

 

[Southpaw]

He has seen the samples but that might not be the full picture. Maybe those were just from Peloponnese or the South.
Nobodies predictions should be taken for granted. Most people thought years ago that I2a was mostly Illyrian in Dalmatia and that turned out to be a big error. I used to suspect that Bronze Age Sicilians were very close to old Greeks before the colonization that turned out to be false.

There was never any doubt on it, 10-12 years ago Kenn Nordvedt clearly explained that I2a-Din is a Slavic marker through and through. because people didn't bother to read it, that's another story.

Also, on 2008 Dienekes Pontikos explained that E-V13 has a Late Bronze Age expansion, but he couldn't pinpoint from which direction.

 

[real expert]

But eurogenes wasn't the guy that claimed that mycaeneans were going to turn out pure corded ware and yamnaya like? Should his words taken fot granted?

He was dead wrong concerning the Mycenaeans. However, Davidski's leak about the Roman paper turned out to be overall right.

 

[Archetype0ne]

There was never any doubt on it, 10-12 years ago Kenn Nordvedt clearly explained that I2a-Din is a Slavic marker through and through. because people didn't bother to read it, that's another story.

Also, on 2008 Dienekes Pontikos explained that E-V13 has a Late Bronze Age expansion, but he couldn't pinpoint from which direction.

Have we found out later which direction? It seems east right?

 

[brick]

He was dead wrong concerning the Mycenaeans. However, Davidski's leak about the Roman paper turned out to be overall right.

It was other people who leaked some results of the paper on Ancient Rome, not him.