E1b1b proto Illyrian haplogroup

[Atrahasis]

Ne razumijem zašto miješate srpskohrvatski i engleski u svojim citatima.

E-V13 nije došao preko Anadolije tijekom brončanog doba, ne postoji takav obrazac. Na Balkanu jasno slijedi obrazac širenja istočnog polja žara tijekom kasnog brončanog doba, pa bi neka ilirska plemena poput Enchelei, Dardani vjerojatno nosila E-V13. Ali više se odnosi na Proto-Tračane/Tračane.

A J2b2-L283 nije stepska loza nego više kao CHG (Caucasus Hunter Gatherer), imamo dovoljno steppe/Yamnaya/CWC/Bell Beaker uzoraka i nijedan ne nosi J2b2-L283, to je vjerojatno loza koja je negdje dobila IE-zed tijekom ili neposredno nakon 2000. pr. Kr. Nije čak ni pronađen u Bugarskoj ranog brončanog doba među R1b-Z2103 i I2a. Dakle, njegovo je širenje bilo specifičnije i uže rasprostranjeno kod Proto-Ilira i potonjih povijesnih Ilira.

I write using a program that automatically translates what I write in Croatian, but if I edit the text several times, the page is automatically translated so that what I add in English stays in English. I'm sorry, but I write easier and faster with the help of a translator, I'm not grammatically good enough with English to allow myself to write without a program.

But I hope you understand me ?

As for your quote, just below I published an Anatolian hypothesis that refutes you, after all, E1b1b arrived in the Balkans via Anatolia, maybe not in the Late Bronze Age, but that is irrelevant, because Proto-Illyrian migration is placed in the Late Bronze Age only due to the false assumption that Indo-European speakers came from the steppe with haplogroup J2b. You have an Anatolian hypothesis that says Indo-European and Proto-Indo-European speakers were present here much earlier.


After all, we have no evidence that Enchelei or Taulantii were J2b, right?

To make it easier for me to understand, you have to get acquainted with the Anatolian hypothesis.

One more thing. Macioamo Hay, he is not a geneticist or a biologist, he is an amateur and independent researcher who is no different from me or maybe you. He studies genetics like me. What Maciamo Hay publishes on Eupedia is not a Holy scripture.

 

[torzio]

I write using a program that automatically translates what I write in Croatian, but if I edit the text several times, the page is automatically translated so that what I add in English stays in English. I'm sorry, but I write easier and faster with the help of a translator, I'm not grammatically good enough with English to allow myself to write without a program.

But I hope you understand me ?

As for your quote, just below I published an Anatolian hypothesis that refutes you, after all, E1b1b arrived in the Balkans via Anatolia, maybe not in the Late Bronze Age, but that is irrelevant, because Proto-Illyrian migration is placed in the Late Bronze Age only due to the false assumption that Indo-European speakers came from the steppe with haplogroup J2b. You have an Anatolian hypothesis that says Indo-European and Proto-Indo-European speakers were present here much earlier.


After all, we have no evidence that Enchelei or Taulantii were J2b, right?

To make it easier for me to understand, you have to get acquainted with the Anatolian hypothesis.

One more thing. Macioamo Hay, he is not a geneticist or a biologist, he is an amateur and independent researcher who is no different from me or maybe you. He studies genetics like me. What Maciamo Hay publishes on Eupedia is not a Holy scripture.

from August 2021

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-94932-9.pdf

 

[mount123]

This thread is a joke.

 

[Atrahasis]

Ova nit je šala.

With all due respect my friend, i think this forum needed someone like me, because I have had enough of watching the nonsense they write about the Illyrians here, and they have no idea. They think if they have over a thousand posts on eupedia they are the smartest. I have a million posts on other forums so what now?

Here is propagated one hypothesis, Kurgan Hypothesis, and no one mentions the Anatolian hypothesis, why ? What is the problem with Anatolia? This topic is not a joke but you. You are joke, with your funny hypothesis. I have not yet seen any argument against what I have written, just empty stories.

You all have to read a lot more to have at least the basics. That is the fact.

 

[bigsnake49]

With all due respect my friend, i think this forum needed someone like me, because I have had enough of watching the nonsense they write about the Illyrians here, and they have no idea. They think if they have over a thousand posts on eupedia they are the smartest. I have a million posts on other forums so what now?

Here is propagated one hypothesis, Kurgan Hypothesis, and no one mentions the Anatolian hypothesis, why ? What is the problem with Anatolia? This topic is not a joke but you. You are joke, with your funny hypothesis. I have not yet seen any argument against what I have written, just empty stories.

You all have to read a lot more to have at least the basics. That is the fact.

The Anatolian hypothesis has been around for a while, you are not the only one to bring it to light. Until and unless we find archaeological, genetic and linguistic evidence of migration of IE speaking people through Anatolia it will be discredited.

 

[Atrahasis]

Anadolska hipoteza postoji već neko vrijeme, niste samo vi iznijeli na vidjelo. Sve dok i ako ne pronađemo arheološke, genetske i lingvističke dokaze o migracijama ljudi koji govore IE kroz Anadoliju, bit će diskreditirano.

I think the Kurgan hypothesis has a lot of bigger problems. We need evidence showing the percentage of steppe impurities and steppe mtDNA on the ancient J2b members we have. Take the Greek example. According to Eupedija, J2b in Greece is a possible consequence of the migration of members from Kura Araxes to the west. In that case, there is a possibility, and when I say that J2b could have arrived in Albania in the same way, then that is nonsense. Maciamo Hay must first agree with himself what the possibility is. On the haplogroup page J2b he wrote several possibilities. For the Western Balkans, J2b (Y22069) wrote that this was due to the founder effect because his TMRCA was very young (900). This means that the increased concentration of j2b in the Western Balkans is due to the effect of the founders. It has not even been proven where the haplogroup J2b comes from. Some say in the Caucasus, and some in the Balkans. Everything written on eupedija is just hypotheses. Based on only one sample of J2b from Croatia that is old (1700-1500 BC) and contains 30% steppe admixtures and 15% eastern hunter-gatherer, and he had with him one woman who had steppe mtDNA, Maciamo Hay immediately concluded that all Croatian samples of J2b were from the steppe. This is crazy, total nonsense !

 

[Wanderer]

I write using a program that automatically translates what I write in Croatian, but if I edit the text several times, the page is automatically translated so that what I add in English stays in English. I'm sorry, but I write easier and faster with the help of a translator, I'm not grammatically good enough with English to allow myself to write without a program.

But I hope you understand me ?

As for your quote, just below I published an Anatolian hypothesis that refutes you, after all, E1b1b arrived in the Balkans via Anatolia, maybe not in the Late Bronze Age, but that is irrelevant, because Proto-Illyrian migration is placed in the Late Bronze Age only due to the false assumption that Indo-European speakers came from the steppe with haplogroup J2b. You have an Anatolian hypothesis that says Indo-European and Proto-Indo-European speakers were present here much earlier.


After all, we have no evidence that Enchelei or Taulantii were J2b, right?

To make it easier for me to understand, you have to get acquainted with the Anatolian hypothesis.

One more thing. Macioamo Hay, he is not a geneticist or a biologist, he is an amateur and independent researcher who is no different from me or maybe you. He studies genetics like me. What Maciamo Hay publishes on Eupedia is not a Holy scripture.

I actually believe that J-L283 came from the steppe but migrated through black sea on ship straight to the balkans or went through anatolia / pontic to cross into the balkans. Don't believe J-L283 came from Ukrainian territory into europe due to the complete absence of J-L283 in central and north eastern europe prior to rome.

 

[Nikola.pejanovic.stockhol]

To explain the title immediately. My thesis is that the proto Illyrian haplogroup must have been the haplogroup E1b1b without a doubt, and there are several reasons. The Illyrians were a people that almost all ancient authors place on the territory of today's modern Albania. Taulanti, Parthini, Enheleji and Dassareti are mentioned as the four most original Illyrian tribes, all four tribes correspond to the region in which the haplogroup E1b1b V13 still predominates today.
The second reason is, the fact that the Illyrians migrated from the area of modern Albania to present-day modern Apulia, where they were later known as the Messapians, if we look at the map of the haplogroup E1b1b in today's Italy, we will see that the majority of this haplogroup is located in the area where they once inhabited Messapians. It is proof that the E1b1b haplogroup arrived in modern Apulia from the Illyrians, and that the Illyrians must have been E1b1b, it is also proof that E1b1b was dominant and present in the territory of Albania and in the early Illyrian ethnogenesis in which the 4 above mentioned tribes are mentioned. I do not believe that the Proto-Illyrians came to the Balkans from the steppe, but came from Anatolia. This is indicated by many facts and evidence, even the etymology of the Illyrian name itself which comes from the Hittite serpent Illuyanka which has a meaning from the Proto-Indo-European word * h₁illu- i *, meaning snake. The whole myth of the Illyrians is connected with the snake, which was the main cult of worship. Haplogroup J2b, which is considered Illyrian or Proto-Illyrian, has nothing to do with the southern Illyrian tribes that ancient authors consider original. Haplogroup J2b is associated with the northern Illyrian tribes, who are not really Illyrian for we know that the northern Illyrian tribes are considered Illyrians only because they found themselves in the Roman military organization of Illyrik (Illyria). I could now write for a year about all the evidence and arguments that the Proto-Illyrians came from Anatolia, but that is a story for another topic.

I can tell you that in Europe all words derive from bloodlines. illyria is ili-ra. It means the free People, but the meaning free is deeper so i wont get into it now.

To make you understand J2B is to clear the fact about this bloodline geneology that has been with R1A and R1B haplogroups for a very long time. The word illy translate to -A seamans Sun. In all 19 reforms this same word tells the same story through 9 systems of scribe.

R1B is definitely the proto-illyrian. Because illyrian also translate to The leader Rian. Ryan is son of Pyan.

AmunRa Tutankhamun akhenaten and Ramses all have R1B haplogroup, and all mummies of Abusir el-Melek are R1A. All engineers architects doctors Masters of Medicine mathematics education and Astronomy mummies have R1A haplogroup.

Ramses 3 sarkofagus had a intruder corpse next to him that had E1b haplogroup.

The Ethiopians attacked Ramses 3 because he had turned on polytheistic belief we all had. R1B wanted to be worshiped as the only god.

E1B and R1A are very old brothers. They know Shu is R1A.

Therefor its obvious geneology even for the true Albanian that has R1B haplogroup. Alban is Javan. Djavol! His own bloodline, AND J2B haplogroup is one of his closest bloodbrothers.

Saharija tribe has R1A Founding haplogroup.

E1B is also part of their constellation but seems to have gone mad and oppressing its own people.

 

[Nikola.pejanovic.stockhol]

I think the Kurgan hypothesis has a lot of bigger problems. We need evidence showing the percentage of steppe impurities and steppe mtDNA on the ancient J2b members we have. Take the Greek example. According to Eupedija, J2b in Greece is a possible consequence of the migration of members from Kura Araxes to the west. In that case, there is a possibility, and when I say that J2b could have arrived in Albania in the same way, then that is nonsense. Maciamo Hay must first agree with himself what the possibility is. On the haplogroup page J2b he wrote several possibilities. For the Western Balkans, J2b (Y22069) wrote that this was due to the founder effect because his TMRCA was very young (900). This means that the increased concentration of j2b in the Western Balkans is due to the effect of the founders. It has not even been proven where the haplogroup J2b comes from. Some say in the Caucasus, and some in the Balkans. Everything written on eupedija is just hypotheses. Based on only one sample of J2b from Croatia that is old (1700-1500 BC) and contains 30% steppe admixtures and 15% eastern hunter-gatherer, and he had with him one woman who had steppe mtDNA, Maciamo Hay immediately concluded that all Croatian samples of J2b were from the steppe. This is crazy, total nonsense !

Boljevic is J2b. They are renowned and decorated warriors. Im sure they came through the steppe.

My own bloodline founded ashkenazi and the Balkan strain of J2B were early in the circle. They continued it with E1B towards Europe through the Balkan. So they are a part of the Black circle.