E-V13 Frequencies and New Data

[Veriu]

Your claims are based on unverified assumptions rather than data. If you’re going to challenge Rrenjet’s findings, you need to present concrete alternative studies with transparent methodologies, not vague generalizations.

What studies are you referring to? What regions were sampled? What was the sample size? Without that information, your argument holds no weight.

Rrenjet’s dataset includes 291 samples from Kosovo alone (and growing), along with a growing collection from Macedonia. If you know of a study with a larger, more regionally balanced dataset, feel free to share. Otherwise, dismissing a project simply because its findings don’t align with your expectations and because they don't have a E-V13 admin is intellectually dishonest.

Regarding Macedonia, I sponsored a good portion of the samples (wish I could do more), ensuring some diversity/spread—particularly in the northwest, where most participants were more willing to test. The lack of representation in the southwest and other areas, including the ongoing challenge of finding participants in Shkup highlight the real issue: skepticism and reluctance among Albanians to engage in genetic testing, not any supposed bias within Rrenjet.

Finally, your suggestion of an anti-E-V13 agenda is not only baseless but also logically incoherent. Sample collection is driven by user donations and sponsorship requests, meaning individuals decide where their contributions go. Some don't specify (which allows for even spread). Myself however, I target specific regions of interest (Northern/Central Albania, Southern Kosove, and Northwest Macedonia). In fact, Rrenjet has been so transparent, that I have received a complete breakdown of all the kits, and donations and where they are allocated.

If E-V13 were being intentionally suppressed, it would require active interference in donation allocations, which is an absurd claim with no evidence to support it. If they were so anti E-V13, it wouldn't even be documented as the most dominant Y-DNA in the project. E-V13 remains the dominant haplogroup among Albanians - just not to the inflated degree that your personal biases might prefer. If reality doesn’t conform to your expectations, that’s a you problem, not a Rrenjet problem.

Your claims are demonstrably false and entirely disconnected from actual data. The Rrenjet project provides the largest and most detailed Albanian Y-DNA dataset to date, covering nearly 2,000 samples with precise regional breakdowns that no other study even comes close to matching. Yet you claim some vague, undefined "random studies" contradict its findings. Where are these studies? What is their sample size? What is their methodology? What is their regional breakdown? You have nothing. Meanwhile, here is the reality:

Among 1,793 ethnic Albanian samples, E-V13 is 28.2%, making it the single most dominant haplogroup in the dataset. Among Gheg Albanians (1,198 samples), E-V13 is 30.5%, while among Tosk Albanians (563 samples), it is 23.3%. In nearly every major Albanian region sampled, E-V13 remains the most frequent haplogroup.

A regional breakdown further destroys your false narrative:

In Kosovo (291 samples), E-V13 is 33.7%, again the dominant haplogroup, and well above the overall average. The breakdown by city shows: Gjakovë (33.3%), Pejë (39.3%), Prizren (16.1%), Ferizaj (41.7%), Gjilan (28%), Prishtinë (40.3%), and Mitrovicë (45.9%). If you claim Rrenjet is "suppressing" E-V13, then why does it remain the single most dominant haplogroup in Kosovo, with some of the highest concentrations anywhere?

In Albania (1,293 samples total), E-V13 is 27.6%, still the most frequent haplogroup in the country. The city-by-city breakdown confirms its dominance in most regions:

• Berat (29.8%)
• Dibër (21.8%)
• Durrës (38.1%)
• Elbasan (25.3%)
• Fier (15.1%)
• Gjirokastër (26.5%)
• Korçë (20.7%)
• Kukës (31.8%)
• Lezhë (38.5%)
• Shkodër (33.3%)
• Tiranë (34.8%)
• Vlorë (20.6%)

This directly contradicts your false claim that Rrenjet shows "lower E-V13 for every region." In most areas, E-V13 is either the single most common haplogroup or among the highest.

The only region where E-V13 is not dominant is Macedonia (136 samples, 19.1%), and that is because the Albanian population there has been far less willing to test. I personally funded many of those samples, and I can tell you firsthand that finding test participants in Macedonia has been extremely difficult, especially in the southwest and in Shkup. But even in Macedonia, Polog is 27.3% E-V13, while other regions suffer from small sample sizes that make generalizations unreliable.

Your bizarre attempt to compare Sandžak Bosniaks to Albanians is a transparent deflection. The fact that a small Slavic population with a founder effect has a high E-V13 percentage means absolutely nothing when compared to a dataset of nearly 2,000 Albanians spread throughout all Albanian occupied regions. You are grasping at straws because you have no valid argument. Most of those Sandžak Bosniaks are of Albanian origin anyways, and likely migrated there from specific areas in North-West Albania/Montenegro. It's like saying I1 reaches high levels in Puke, and the other areas are "manipulated" to make them appear lower than reality.

Finally, your claim that Rrenjet "suppresses" E-V13 is laughable in light of the actual data which largely reports it's dominance across the board. It's also clearly demonstrating your own bias/agenda for the heavy handed obsession with ensuring E-V13 must be dominant in every region on a macro and micro level. If Rrenjet were truly manipulating results, why is E-V13 still the most common haplogroup overall? Why does it dominate Kosovo? Why is it leading in most major Albanian cities? The reality is simple: E-V13 is dominant, just not to the exaggerated degree you wish it was.

Unless you can provide a study with more samples, more transparency, and better regionalization than Rrenjet’s dataset, your argument is meaningless. Facts do not change to accommodate your personal bias. The numbers speak for themselves—and they expose you as factually wrong, statistically illiterate, and completely out of your depth.

Setting the record straight and sanity posts. It's easy to make up ridiculous stories in a forum, far more difficult to create anything.

 

[Hawk]

Your claims are based on unverified assumptions rather than data. If you’re going to challenge Rrenjet’s findings, you need to present concrete alternative studies with transparent methodologies, not vague generalizations.

What studies are you referring to? What regions were sampled? What was the sample size? Without that information, your argument holds no weight.

Rrenjet’s dataset includes 291 samples from Kosovo alone (and growing), along with a growing collection from Macedonia. If you know of a study with a larger, more regionally balanced dataset, feel free to share. Otherwise, dismissing a project simply because its findings don’t align with your expectations and because they don't have a E-V13 admin is intellectually dishonest.

Regarding Macedonia, I sponsored a good portion of the samples (wish I could do more), ensuring some diversity/spread—particularly in the northwest, where most participants were more willing to test. The lack of representation in the southwest and other areas, including the ongoing challenge of finding participants in Shkup highlight the real issue: skepticism and reluctance among Albanians to engage in genetic testing, not any supposed bias within Rrenjet.

Finally, your suggestion of an anti-E-V13 agenda is not only baseless but also logically incoherent. Sample collection is driven by user donations and sponsorship requests, meaning individuals decide where their contributions go. Some don't specify (which allows for even spread). Myself however, I target specific regions of interest (Northern/Central Albania, Southern Kosove, and Northwest Macedonia). In fact, Rrenjet has been so transparent, that I have received a complete breakdown of all the kits, and donations and where they are allocated.

If E-V13 were being intentionally suppressed, it would require active interference in donation allocations, which is an absurd claim with no evidence to support it. If they were so anti E-V13, it wouldn't even be documented as the most dominant Y-DNA in the project. E-V13 remains the dominant haplogroup among Albanians - just not to the inflated degree that your personal biases might prefer. If reality doesn’t conform to your expectations, that’s a you problem, not a Rrenjet problem.

Donation allocations as if u guys will make public how and which results to make public. You are the collector, you are the publisher, you are the statistics maker, you know the internal shifting of data. There is no 3rd party to verify your claim, a bit of deception can skew a bit of percentages, it's not neccessary to make it obvious, the devil hides in the details.

I am 100% u did something shady. Just look at the admins and people promoting the project, none is E-V13. Admins are R1b, u R1a having an instagram page with rrenjet name, various J2b's around, none E-V13. How normal it is for a population having the most frequent Y-DNA as E-V13, having no single person to monitor an ongoing project about sensitive stuff about its population headed by Playstation 2 keyboard warriors who frequented and get to know eachother in a neo-nazi forum as Apricity. Bizarre.

Original Albanian DNA was created by kuqezi an E-V13 member who included all Albanians no matter the male lineage.

It is actually extremely bizarre and shameful.

I am pretty sure Kosovo is like 40-45% E-V13 and Albos from Macedonia should be around ~30-32% just as the Macedonian paper in collaboration with Germans resulted, it was hailed for its sampling strategy something u know nothing about, u go collect single village or people from single tribe and publish skewing percentages.

Captain Obvious is Captain Obvious, this one should be obvious, and i am not going to prolong to explain myself further.

 

[Japode]

Donation allocations as if u guys will make public how and which results to make public. You are the collector, you are the publisher, you are the statistics maker, you know the internal shifting of data. There is no 3rd party to verify your claim, a bit of deception can skew a bit of percentages, it's not neccessary to make it obvious, the devil hides in the details.

I am 100% u did something shady. Just look at the admins and people promoting the project, none is E-V13. Admins are R1b, u R1a having an instagram page with rrenjet name, various J2b's around, none E-V13. How normal it is for a population having the most frequent Y-DNA as E-V13, having no single person to monitor an ongoing project about sensitive stuff about its population headed by Playstation 2 keyboard warriors who frequented and get to know eachother in a neo-nazi forum as Apricity. Bizarre.

Original Albanian DNA was created by kuqezi an E-V13 member who included all Albanians no matter the male lineage.

It is actually extremely bizarre and shameful.

I am pretty sure Kosovo is like 40-45% E-V13 and Albos from Macedonia should be around ~30-32% just as the Macedonian paper in collaboration with Germans resulted, it was hailed for its sampling strategy something u know nothing about, u go collect single village or people from single tribe and publish skewing percentages.

Captain Obvious is Captain Obvious, this one should be obvious, and i am not going to prolong to explain myself further.

Tinfoil hat meltdown So now genetic research is only valid if the researcher shares the same haplogroup? By your logic, only lions can study zoology and only birds can be ornithologists. Congrats, you’ve just invented the dumbest standard in science history. If your argument was strong, you wouldn’t be hiding behind vague dismissals like a coward. Book an appointment with a psychiatrist before you end up screaming about haplogroup suppression on the streets of Berlin like a lunatic.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

Macedonian Albs and Tosks have less E-V13 than ethnic Macs, allegedly.

If a new study is published, I am sure the rrenjet figures will be questioned again. As of now, the figures are sus, and it does not pass the smell test.

 

[Hawk]

Tinfoil hat meltdown So now genetic research is only valid if the researcher shares the same haplogroup? By your logic, only lions can study zoology and only birds can be ornithologists. Congrats, you’ve just invented the dumbest standard in science history. If your argument was strong, you wouldn’t be hiding behind vague dismissals like a coward. Book an appointment with a psychiatrist before you end up screaming about haplogroup suppression on the streets of Berlin like a lunatic.

Look at your dumb logic lol, lion zoology, birds can be ornithologist, what are you cooking you dumbfuck low IQ.

That is the whole point, none of them are researchers, they met in a neo-nazi forum like Apricity and that is true, it is also true that we have actual studies which show different percentage and why should we take this as canon when there was nobody around to verify their sampling strategy.

There will be new studies and we will verify where do they stand, and i am pretty sure with DNA tests getting cheaper their sample size will include and increase into thousands so no escape in that.

 

[Japode]

Look at your dumb logic lol, lion zoology, birds can be ornithologist, what are you cooking you dumbfuck low IQ.

That is the whole point, none of them are researchers, they met in a neo-nazi forum like Apricity and that is true, it is also true that we have actual studies which show different percentage and why should we take this as canon when there was nobody around to verify their sampling strategy.

There will be new studies and we will verify where do they stand, and i am pretty sure with DNA tests getting cheaper their sample size will include and increase into thousands so no escape in that.

Ah yes, the classic ‘call someone dumb without actually refuting anything’ strategy. You’re so mentally outmatched here that you didn’t even understand the analogy, and now you’re coping like a wounded animal. The point was simple; being part of a group doesn’t make you the only valid authority to study that group. But you’re too brain-damaged to get that, so you just started screeching instead. Try again, low-tier NPC. You still haven’t refuted a single thing—just more crying about where people met. Science doesn’t stop being science because you don’t like the people involved. Your logic is so pathetic that I’d have an easier time debating a rock

 

[Hawk]

Macedonian Albs and Tosks have less E-V13 than ethnic Macs, allegedly.

If a new study is published, I am sure the rrenjet figures will be questioned again. As of now, the figures are sus, and it does not pass the smell test.

Your assumption makes sense, i just think that there is no chance that various studies from different researchers following scientific patterns in statistics so there is no bias having similar percentages for Albs in Macedonia will shift the percentage so much. from 30-35% to 19%.

Marginal differences are acceptable, say 25-30%. But less than that it smells. Also, you cannot pass as canonical a project not led by actual researchers. I mean you might have a database true, but setting yourself as canonical is unacceptable.

 

[Dibran]

Lmao, donation allocations as if u guys will make public how and which results to make public.

I am 100% u did something shady. Just look at the admins and people promoting the project, none is E-V13. Admins are R1b, u R1a having an instagram page with rrenjet name, various J2b's around, none E-V13.

Original Albanian DNA was created by kuqezi an E-V13 member who included all Albanians no matter the male lineage.

It is actually extremely bizarre and shameful.

I am pretty sure Kosovo is like 40-45% E-V13 and Albos from Macedonia should be around ~30-32% just as the Macedonian paper in collaboration with Germans resulted, it was hailed for its sampling strategy something u know nothing about, u go collect single village or people from single tribe and publish skewing percentages.

Captain Obvious is Captain Obvious, this one should be obvious, and i am not going to prolong to explain myself further.

Your response is a masterclass in intellectual dishonesty, packed with baseless accusations, logical fallacies, and empty rhetoric. You’ve provided zero data, zero sources, and zero valid counterpoints, while resorting to conspiracy theories, personal attacks, and laughable deflections. This was nothing more than weak, emotional outburst with no factual basis.

Your claim that something "shady" is going on is nothing more than paranoia without proof. Where is your evidence? Where is your data? You throw around accusations with 100% certainty yet fail to provide even a single verifiable fact to back them up. That is not how intellectual discussions work; that is how irrational people operate when they have no real argument. The idea that Rrenjet is manipulating donation allocations is absurd. If you had even the slightest understanding of how the project operates, you would know that sponsorships determine where samples are collected, and donors receive a full breakdown of where their funds go. I personally have access to a full record of test kit distributions, so your vague accusations mean nothing. Hell, just open the damn project site and look at the picture of the map where it's visually apparent where each tested sample is from/collected lol.

Your obsession with the haplogroups of Rrenjet admins is completely irrelevant to the validity of the dataset. Science is not dictated by the personal genetics of the people managing a project; it is dictated by the methodology, sample size, and transparency of results. What matters is the data, and the data is crystal clear, E-V13 is the most frequent haplogroup among Albanians. If the admins were all E-V13, would that somehow make the numbers more valid? Would it then justify the same baseless logic, that there is a conspiracy against non-E-V13 individuals? No. Facts remain facts regardless of who presents them. Your argument is a desperate attempt to shift focus away from the dataset itself because you know you have no valid counterargument.

You also try to invoke "Original Albanian DNA" and claim that an E-V13 admin ran it, as if that somehow invalidates Rrenjet’s dataset and makes theirs the quintessential reference point. That is nothing but a red herring, a pathetic attempt to inject an irrelevant point into the discussion. No one is excluding anyone from testing based on haplogroup. The fact that Rrenjet has the most detailed regional dataset ever compiled for Albanians, covering all haplogroups, completely obliterates your argument. E-V13 is well-documented, and no one is hiding it—your entire theory falls apart on its face.

Then comes your next unsupported claim: that Kosovo should be 40-45% E-V13 and Albanians in Macedonia should be around 30-32%, according to some mysterious "Macedonian paper" that you refuse to cite. Where is this paper? Who conducted the study? What was the sample size? What were the regions tested? Where can we verify its findings? You conveniently refuse to provide even a single reference. That’s because you don’t actually have a study, or you know that whatever study you’re referring to has nowhere near the sample size, regionalization or transparency of Rrenjet. This is what intellectually dishonest people do—they make vague references to “studies” that no one can verify and expect people to take them at face value. Meanwhile, Rrenjet’s dataset is fully available, fully transparent, and has nearly 2,000 Albanian samples with detailed regional breakdowns. If you believe another dataset is more accurate, prove it. I have yet to see a study that has a massive sample size, or even detailed reporting of regions and villages.

Here are the actual numbers, which completely destroy your claim that Rrenjet is downplaying E-V13. Among 1,793 tested ethnic Albanians, E-V13 is 28.2%, making it the most frequent haplogroup overall. Among Gheg Albanians (1,198 samples), E-V13 is 30.5%, while among Tosk Albanians (563 samples), it is 23.3%. The regional breakdown shows that E-V13 is dominant in the vast majority of locations. In Kosovo (291 samples and growing), E-V13 is 33.7%, with city-level percentages of Gjakovë (33.3%), Pejë (39.3%), Prizren (16.1%), Ferizaj (41.7%), Gjilan (28%), Prishtinë (40.3%), and Mitrovicë (45.9%). That alone obliterates your conspiracy theory. If Rrenjet were "suppressing" E-V13, how do you explain Kosovo having such high percentages?

In Albania (1,293 samples), E-V13 is 27.6%, once again the most frequent haplogroup. The city-by-city breakdown further exposes your lies: Berat (29.8%), Dibër (21.8%), Durrës (38.1%), Elbasan (25.3%), Fier (15.1%), Gjirokastër (26.5%), Korçë (20.7%), Kukës (31.8%), Lezhë (38.5%), Shkodër (33.3%), Tiranë (34.8%), and Vlorë (20.6%). In Macedonia (136 samples), E-V13 is 19.1% (R1b dominates so far), with Polog at 27.3% E-V13, while Shkup and the southwestern regions remain underrepresented due to a lack of willing test participants. This is a sampling issue, not a bias issue. If you want more E-V13 samples from Macedonia, then fund the tests instead of making ridiculous conspiracy claims.

Then, you say "I am not going to prolong to explain myself further." Translation: "I have no evidence, no sources, and no valid argument, so I’m going to pretend I’m too important to explain myself." That is the ultimate cop-out. If your claims were actually backed by evidence, you would be able to engage with the data rather than run away from the discussion while pretending your points are self-evident. They’re not. You have provided nothing of value. Science is based on evidence, not gut feelings, biases, or conspiracies.

Your entire argument collapses under scrutiny. You have no data, no sources, and no meaningful counterpoints. Meanwhile, Rrenjet has the largest, most detailed dataset of Albanian Y-DNA ever compiled. Anyone can look it up. E-V13 remains the dominant haplogroup. No one is suppressing it. No one is hiding it. The reality is that it is simply not as exaggerated as you want it to be. The problem isn’t the data, the problem is that your ego can’t handle reality. Until you can produce an alternative study with more samples, better transparency, and superior regional precision, your claims remain nothing more than baseless whining, conspiracy theories, and empty rhetoric. Your entire premise is built on paranoia, not verifiable information.

 

[Hawk]

Your response is a masterclass in intellectual dishonesty, packed with baseless accusations, logical fallacies, and empty rhetoric. You’ve provided zero data, zero sources, and zero valid counterpoints, while resorting to conspiracy theories, personal attacks, and laughable deflections. This was nothing more than weak, emotional outburst with no factual basis.

Your claim that something "shady" is going on is nothing more than paranoia without proof. Where is your evidence? Where is your data? You throw around accusations with 100% certainty yet fail to provide even a single verifiable fact to back them up. That is not how intellectual discussions work; that is how irrational people operate when they have no real argument. The idea that Rrenjet is manipulating donation allocations is absurd. If you had even the slightest understanding of how the project operates, you would know that sponsorships determine where samples are collected, and donors receive a full breakdown of where their funds go. I personally have access to a full record of test kit distributions, so your vague accusations mean nothing. Hell, just open the damn project site and look at the picture of the map where it's visually apparent where each tested sample is from/collected lol.

Your obsession with the haplogroups of Rrenjet admins is completely irrelevant to the validity of the dataset. Science is not dictated by the personal genetics of the people managing a project; it is dictated by the methodology, sample size, and transparency of results. What matters is the data, and the data is crystal clear, E-V13 is the most frequent haplogroup among Albanians. If the admins were all E-V13, would that somehow make the numbers more valid? Would it then justify the same baseless logic, that there is a conspiracy against non-E-V13 individuals? No. Facts remain facts regardless of who presents them. Your argument is a desperate attempt to shift focus away from the dataset itself because you know you have no valid counterargument.

You also try to invoke "Original Albanian DNA" and claim that an E-V13 admin ran it, as if that somehow invalidates Rrenjet’s dataset and makes theirs the quintessential reference point. That is nothing but a red herring, a pathetic attempt to inject an irrelevant point into the discussion. No one is excluding anyone from testing based on haplogroup. The fact that Rrenjet has the most detailed regional dataset ever compiled for Albanians, covering all haplogroups, completely obliterates your argument. E-V13 is well-documented, and no one is hiding it—your entire theory falls apart on its face.

Then comes your next unsupported claim: that Kosovo should be 40-45% E-V13 and Albanians in Macedonia should be around 30-32%, according to some mysterious "Macedonian paper" that you refuse to cite. Where is this paper? Who conducted the study? What was the sample size? What were the regions tested? Where can we verify its findings? You conveniently refuse to provide even a single reference. That’s because you don’t actually have a study, or you know that whatever study you’re referring to has nowhere near the sample size, regionalization or transparency of Rrenjet. This is what intellectually dishonest people do—they make vague references to “studies” that no one can verify and expect people to take them at face value. Meanwhile, Rrenjet’s dataset is fully available, fully transparent, and has nearly 2,000 Albanian samples with detailed regional breakdowns. If you believe another dataset is more accurate, prove it. I have yet to see a study that has a massive sample size, or even detailed reporting of regions and villages.

Here are the actual numbers, which completely destroy your claim that Rrenjet is downplaying E-V13. Among 1,793 tested ethnic Albanians, E-V13 is 28.2%, making it the most frequent haplogroup overall. Among Gheg Albanians (1,198 samples), E-V13 is 30.5%, while among Tosk Albanians (563 samples), it is 23.3%. The regional breakdown shows that E-V13 is dominant in the vast majority of locations. In Kosovo (291 samples and growing), E-V13 is 33.7%, with city-level percentages of Gjakovë (33.3%), Pejë (39.3%), Prizren (16.1%), Ferizaj (41.7%), Gjilan (28%), Prishtinë (40.3%), and Mitrovicë (45.9%). That alone obliterates your conspiracy theory. If Rrenjet were "suppressing" E-V13, how do you explain Kosovo having such high percentages?

In Albania (1,293 samples), E-V13 is 27.6%, once again the most frequent haplogroup. The city-by-city breakdown further exposes your lies: Berat (29.8%), Dibër (21.8%), Durrës (38.1%), Elbasan (25.3%), Fier (15.1%), Gjirokastër (26.5%), Korçë (20.7%), Kukës (31.8%), Lezhë (38.5%), Shkodër (33.3%), Tiranë (34.8%), and Vlorë (20.6%). In Macedonia (136 samples), E-V13 is 19.1% (R1b dominates so far), with Polog at 27.3% E-V13, while Shkup and the southwestern regions remain underrepresented due to a lack of willing test participants. This is a sampling issue, not a bias issue. If you want more E-V13 samples from Macedonia, then fund the tests instead of making ridiculous conspiracy claims.

Then, you say "I am not going to prolong to explain myself further." Translation: "I have no evidence, no sources, and no valid argument, so I’m going to pretend I’m too important to explain myself." That is the ultimate cop-out. If your claims were actually backed by evidence, you would be able to engage with the data rather than run away from the discussion while pretending your points are self-evident. They’re not. You have provided nothing of value. Science is based on evidence, not gut feelings, biases, or conspiracies.

Your entire argument collapses under scrutiny. You have no data, no sources, and no meaningful counterpoints. Meanwhile, Rrenjet has the largest, most detailed dataset of Albanian Y-DNA ever compiled. Anyone can look it up. E-V13 remains the dominant haplogroup. No one is suppressing it. No one is hiding it. The reality is that it is simply not as exaggerated as you want it to be. The problem isn’t the data, the problem is that your ego can’t handle reality. Until you can produce an alternative study with more samples, better transparency, and superior regional precision, your claims remain nothing more than baseless whining, conspiracy theories, and empty rhetoric. Your entire premise is built on paranoia, not verifiable information.

Such a masterclass gasslighting post, my claim is extremely valid. Why a project of such importance to Albanians has no E-V13 member in administration? It is not a scientific initiative, it is an amateur initiative, why none is allowed? But every other Y-DNA has members, admins, people who donate. Stop deflecting the real points. It is a simple question which can have a simple answer, not a Edgar Allan Poe-like poem.

Here is Jankova's study

A total of 314 individuals representing the three major ethno-linguistic groups (ethnic Macedonians, Albanians and Turks) in the Republic of North Macedonia were analyzed for Y-SNPs and Y-STRs using minisequencing and fragment analysis. The haplogroup composition differed remarkably between the three groups with dominance of haplogroup I2 in ethnic Macedonians (28.1%), E1b in Albanians (35.3%) and J2a (34.9%) in Turks, respectively. The haplotype analysis using the YFilerPlus kit disclosed a significant reduction in diversity values (DC, GD) for the Turkish subgroup compared to the Macedonian and Albanian speaking populations. The Y-STR based population analysis revealed a similarity of ethnic Macedonians with neighboring Serbians and Bulgarians. The same holds true for the Albanian speakers from Macedonia and Albania, whereas the Turkish minority in North Macedonia stands apart from the population in Turkey.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1872497319301097

Here is another one from 2010, 111 persons

. In the Albanians E1b1b1a-M78 accounted for 28.8%,R1b1-P25 for 18.0%, J2b2-M241 for 13.5% andR1a1-SRY1532 for 12.6%.

https://intapi.sciendo.com/pdf/10.2478/v10034-010-0013-9

 

[Dibran]

Macedonian Albs and Tosks have less E-V13 than ethnic Macs, allegedly.

If a new study is published, I am sure the rrenjet figures will be questioned again. As of now, the figures are sus, and it does not pass the smell test.

So your entire argument boils down to posting a generic pie chart from a sample of 386 Macedonians, with zero regional breakdown, no explained methodology, and no transparency on where the samples were collected—and you think that somehow refutes an extensively detailed database of nearly 2,000 Albanians (and growing), meticulously categorized by region, dialect (Gheg/Tosk), and even Whole Genome Sequencing (WGS) tests? Is that seriously what you’re going with? Did critical thinking not make it onto your college curriculum?

 

[Hawk]

Ah yes, the classic ‘call someone dumb without actually refuting anything’ strategy. You’re so mentally outmatched here that you didn’t even understand the analogy, and now you’re coping like a wounded animal. The point was simple; being part of a group doesn’t make you the only valid authority to study that group. But you’re too brain-damaged to get that, so you just started screeching instead. Try again, low-tier NPC. You still haven’t refuted a single thing—just more crying about where people met. Science doesn’t stop being science because you don’t like the people involved. Your logic is so pathetic that I’d have an easier time debating a rock

You didn't make any real claim, or smart claim so i refute it, you refuted yourself from the beginning.

It is an amateur project with participants which none has a background in biology, bio-computing, medicine. Well, to be honest it doesn't necessary require one, because the actual job is done by DNA companies like yseq and FTDNA and all they do is save it in database and make statistics graphs and in saying that analysis about subclades and comparisons. The real question is this initiative being taken and having no participant to monitor how the sampling is done, a voice being raised especially when claims are being done about specific Y-DNA origin around forums require raising eyebrows. You pretend to be canonical, you will have criticism of course, especially since it deals with us. And our criticism are valid, 100% straight to the point. Hence your over-reaction like wild-turkey.

 

[Japode]

You didn't make any real claim, or smart claim so i refute it, you refuted yourself from the beginning.

It is an amateur project with participants which none has a background in biology, bio-computing, medicine. Well, to be honest it doesn't necessary require one, because the actual job is done by DNA companies like yseq and FTDNA and all they do is save it in database and make statistics graphs and in saying that analysis about subclades and comparisons. The real question is this initiative being taken and having no participant to monitor how the sampling is done, a voice being raised especially when claims are being done about specific Y-DNA origin around forums require raising eyebrows. You pretend to be canonical, you will have criticism of course, especially since it deals with us. And our criticism are valid, 100% straight to the point. Hence your over-reaction like wild-turkey.

You just disproved your own point in the same paragraph. If expertise isn’t necessary, then why did you complain about it? You’re literally arguing against yourself—you’re your own worst enemy. You are arguing against yourself now do you even process what you write before posting? ‘Raising eyebrows’ isn’t science, you absolute mongoloid. Either provide counter-evidence or shut up with the paranoid nonsense. You’re out here acting like a tinfoil hat lunatic muttering to himself in a basement. DNA doesn’t care about your fragile ego. You’re acting like this is a personal attack when it’s literally just numbers. Seek professional help.

Saying ‘just wait for new studies’ is not an argument, it’s wishful thinking. Come back when you have actual data, not blind faith.

You have faith that you are correct, but faith is not an argument. Science is based on evidence, not dogma. You are not debating—you are reciting a creed. And for that reason, you have lost.

You don’t get to cry about ‘lack of monitoring’ without showing actual proof that there was a problem. You assume guilt without evidence. That’s the definition of ignorance.

 

[Hawk]

You just disproved your own point in the same paragraph. If expertise isn’t necessary, then why did you complain about it? You’re literally arguing against yourself—you’re your own worst enemy. You are arguing against yourself now do you even process what you write before posting? ‘Raising eyebrows’ isn’t science, you absolute mongoloid. Either provide counter-evidence or shut up with the paranoid nonsense. You’re out here acting like a tinfoil hat lunatic muttering to himself in a basement. DNA doesn’t care about your fragile ego. You’re acting like this is a personal attack when it’s literally just numbers. Seek professional help.

Saying ‘just wait for new studies’ is not an argument, it’s wishful thinking. Come back when you have actual data, not blind faith.

You have faith that you are correct, but faith is not an argument. Science is based on evidence, not dogma. You are not debating—you are reciting a creed. And for that reason, you have lost.

You don’t get to cry about ‘lack of monitoring’ without showing actual proof that there was a problem. You assume guilt without evidence. That’s the definition of ignorance.

Yeah, there is no quality monitoring on the statistics, period. Your wild-turkey moanings do not change that fact. Especially not labels as "lunatic" or whatever lol, it is quite obvious they gathered you under their wings hence u being so vocal.

 

[Dibran]

Such a masterclass gasslighting post, my claim is extremely valid. Why a project of such importance to Albanians has no E-V13 member in administration? It is not a scientific initiative, it is an amateur initiative, why none is allowed? But every other Y-DNA has members, admins, people who donate. Stop deflecting the real points. It is a simple question which can have a simple answer, not a Edgar Allan Poe-like poem.

Here is Jankova's study



Here is another one from 2010, 111 persons

Your attempt at "evidence" is not only laughably insufficient but also insulting to basic scientific standards. You are seriously presenting two minuscule studies - one with 314 samples (not even exclusively Albanians) and another with only 111, against Rrenjet’s near 2,000 Albanian dataset with full regionalization, dialect classification (Gheg/Tosk), deep WGS testing, and transparent methodology?

First, let’s talk about sample size. 314 total individuals were tested in Jankova’s study, which includes not just Albanians, but also Macedonians and Turks—meaning the actual number of Albanians sampled (only 102 btw) is significantly smaller. You then present another study from 2010 with a mere 111 samples, and you think these are sufficient counterpoints to a dataset nearly 20 times the size? This is scientific malpractice at its finest. A study with such a tiny sample size, mixed ethnic groups, and no meaningful regional distribution is statistically insignificant compared to the Rrenjet dataset.

Now, let’s talk about regionalization and methodology or in this case, the complete lack of it in your so-called "evidence." Neither of these studies breaks down where the samples were collected. Were they taken from one city? A handful of villages? A single university? No one knows, because the studies don’t specify. In contrast, Rrenjet provides precise regional distribution across Albania, Kosovo, North Macedonia, Montenegro, Greece, and Serbia, mapping genetic data down to specific cities and villages. Your sources don’t even come remotely close to this level of granularity.

Furthermore, neither of the studies you cited conducts Whole Genome Sequencing (WGS) tests, which means they are limited to basic STR analysis, a method that is far less reliable for deep ancestry research compared to the advanced SNP testing used in Rrenjet. This alone makes them completely inferior as a point of comparison. You are trying to challenge a detailed, modern, and regionally distributed dataset with outdated, small-sample STR-based studies that provide almost no meaningful breakdown. That’s not an argument, that’s an embarrassment. You have simply demonstrated to us that you are willing to trust insignificant data because it strokes your ego for E-V13 dominance being overblown.

Your obsession with admin haplogroups is yet another pathetic deflection. Science is not dictated by the Y-DNA haplogroups of the people conducting the research; it is dictated by data, methodology, and transparency. If your argument is that E-V13 is being "suppressed," then explain why it is still the most frequently occurring haplogroup in Rrenjet’s dataset. Your logic collapses on itself. If the project were truly anti-E-V13, how would it remain the dominant haplogroup? This contradiction exposes the sheer absurdity of your claim. To go out of their way to manipulate "the truth" only to say the same exact thing?

And let’s be honest, your entire response is one long avoidance of the real issue: you have failed to provide a single dataset that surpasses Rrenjet in size, transparency, regional breakdown, granularity, or testing depth. Instead, you throw out tiny, generalized studies with no real details and pretend it’s some kind of gotcha moment. You are grasping at straws because you have nothing. No serious researcher would consider a 314-person mixed-ethnicity study (102 of which were actual Albanians) and a 111-person decade-old paper to be superior to a transparent, growing database of nearly 2,000 Albanians. That's 213 Albanians against 2,000. Let that sink in. Yet you hypocritically noted how few the samples are in Kosove (291) and Albanians from Macedonia (136) and unreliable in determining true E-V13 percentages. All the while quoting a sample size of 213 Albanians to make your point. Math is obviously not your strong suit.

It's pretty obvious you have never went through the project database in detail. Find me any study that has this breakdown (you can't) - https://rrenjet.com/databaza-kombetare/

If you want to challenge Rrenjet, find a study that actually competes with it, one that has a larger Albanian sample size, deeper genetic testing (WGS), and better regionalization. Until then, you have done nothing but embarrass yourself, expose your own ignorance, and demonstrate a complete inability to engage in serious scientific discussion.

 

[Hawk]

Your attempt at "evidence" is not only laughably insufficient but also insulting to basic scientific standards. You are seriously presenting two minuscule studies - one with 314 samples (not even exclusively Albanians) and another with only 111, against Rrenjet’s near 2,000 Albanian dataset with full regionalization, dialect classification (Gheg/Tosk), deep WGS testing, and transparent methodology?

First, let’s talk about sample size. 314 total individuals were tested in Jankova’s study, which includes not just Albanians, but also Macedonians and Turks—meaning the actual number of Albanians sampled (only 102 btw) is significantly smaller. You then present another study from 2010 with a mere 111 samples, and you think these are sufficient counterpoints to a dataset nearly 20 times the size? This is scientific malpractice at its finest. A study with such a tiny sample size, mixed ethnic groups, and no meaningful regional distribution is statistically insignificant compared to the Rrenjet dataset.

Now, let’s talk about regionalization and methodology or in this case, the complete lack of it in your so-called "evidence." Neither of these studies breaks down where the samples were collected. Were they taken from one city? A handful of villages? A single university? No one knows, because the studies don’t specify. In contrast, Rrenjet provides precise regional distribution across Albania, Kosovo, North Macedonia, Montenegro, Greece, and Serbia, mapping genetic data down to specific cities and villages. Your sources don’t even come remotely close to this level of granularity.

Furthermore, neither of the studies you cited conducts Whole Genome Sequencing (WGS) tests, which means they are limited to basic STR analysis, a method that is far less reliable for deep ancestry research compared to the advanced SNP testing used in Rrenjet. This alone makes them completely inferior as a point of comparison. You are trying to challenge a detailed, modern, and regionally distributed dataset with outdated, small-sample STR-based studies that provide almost no meaningful breakdown. That’s not an argument, that’s an embarrassment. You have simply demonstrated to us that you are willing to trust insignificant data because it strokes your ego for E-V13 dominance being overblown.

Your obsession with admin haplogroups is yet another pathetic deflection. Science is not dictated by the Y-DNA haplogroups of the people conducting the research; it is dictated by data, methodology, and transparency. If your argument is that E-V13 is being "suppressed," then explain why it is still the most frequently occurring haplogroup in Rrenjet’s dataset. Your logic collapses on itself. If the project were truly anti-E-V13, how would it remain the dominant haplogroup? This contradiction exposes the sheer absurdity of your claim. To go out of their way to manipulate "the truth" only to say the same exact thing?

And let’s be honest, your entire response is one long avoidance of the real issue: you have failed to provide a single dataset that surpasses Rrenjet in size, transparency, regional breakdown, granularity, or testing depth. Instead, you throw out tiny, generalized studies with no real details and pretend it’s some kind of gotcha moment. You are grasping at straws because you have nothing. No serious researcher would consider a 314-person mixed-ethnicity study (102 of which were actual Albanians) and a 111-person decade-old paper to be superior to a transparent, growing database of nearly 2,000 Albanians. It's pretty obvious you have never went through the project database in detail. Find me any study that has this breakdown (you can't) - https://rrenjet.com/databaza-kombetare/

If you want to challenge Rrenjet, find a study that actually competes with it, one that has a larger Albanian sample size, deeper genetic testing (WGS), and better regionalization. Until then, you have done nothing but embarrass yourself, expose your own ignorance, and demonstrate a complete inability to engage in serious scientific discussion.

Plasticity in your response.

WGS is not a critical factor in defining Y-DNA statistics, so that argument is irrelevant. Stop bragging about an amateur initiative while dismissing real research done by university backed scholars.

You claim to represent Albanian DNA, yet lack the transparency and objectivity a project of this scale demands. Collecting data is one thing, ensuring no ideological bias skews its interpretation is another. How is excluding the dominant Y-DNA lineage from decision making justifiable? Every other haplogroup is represented except E-V13. That’s not just an oversight, it is a credibility issue. A project that refuses internal checks and gatekeeps the majority lineage is not scientific, it is amateurish at best, deliberate at worst.

Genetics is not a clubhouse where admins pick and choose who gets a say. A project like this should represent genetic reality, not curate it to fit personal preferences. All major haplogroups are included except E-V13. That is not coincidence, it’s a choice. When this aligns with anti E-V13 narratives in certain circles, it raises serious red flags. This is pattern recognition. If the goal is truth, no haplogroup, especially the most prevalent one should be “kept in check” by an admin team that includes every other lineage. That is not science. That is gatekeeping.

If you were truly committed to transparency, you would at least acknowledge your point and explain why E-V13 is absent from your admin team. Instead, you are avoiding that simple question with walls of text, gaslighting, and irrelevant comparisons.

 

[Dibran]

Plasticity in your response.

WGS is not a critical factor in defining Y-DNA statistics, so that argument is irrelevant. Stop bragging about an amateur initiative while dismissing real research done by university backed scholars.

You claim to represent Albanian DNA, yet lack the transparency and objectivity a project of this scale demands. Collecting data is one thing, ensuring no ideological bias skews its interpretation is another. How is excluding the dominant Y-DNA lineage from decision making justifiable? Every other haplogroup is represented except E-V13. That’s not just an oversight, it is a credibility issue. A project that refuses internal checks and gatekeeps the majority lineage is not scientific, it is amateurish at best, deliberate at worst.

Genetics is not a clubhouse where admins pick and choose who gets a say. A project like this should represent genetic reality, not curate it to fit personal preferences. All major haplogroups are included except E-V13. That is not coincidence, it’s a choice. When this aligns with anti E-V13 narratives in certain circles, it raises serious red flags. This is pattern recognition. If the goal is truth, no haplogroup, especially the most prevalent one should be “kept in check” by an admin team that includes every other lineage. That is not science. That is gatekeeping.

If you were truly committed to transparency, you would at least acknowledge your point and explain why E-V13 is absent from your admin team. Instead, you are avoiding that simple question with walls of text, gaslighting, and irrelevant comparisons.

Your entire argument is pure deflection, paranoia, and zero science. You’ve provided no study that even remotely competes with Rrenjet in sample size, regionalization, or testing depth. Instead, you cite a pathetic 314-person study (only 102 Albanians) and another with just 111, while somehow thinking that challenges a nearly 2,000-person dataset with full geographic precision down to the village level. That’s not just wrong, it’s embarrassing.

You call WGS "irrelevant" because you don’t understand genetics. Unlike your outdated STR studies, WGS accurately identifies Y-DNA subclades (and discovering new ones) and ensures precise lineage tracking. Dismissing it shows you don’t even grasp the basics.

Your biggest hypocrisy? You mocked 291 samples from Kosovo and 136 from Macedonia as “too small” but now cite a combined 213 Albanians as your definitive proof? Pick a side - either sample size matters, or it doesn’t. This contradiction exposes your intellectual dishonesty.

Your obsession with admin haplogroups is just a pathetic deflection. Science isn’t dictated by the Y-DNA of researchers, but by data, methodology, and transparency. If Rrenjet were "anti-E-V13," then why is E-V13 still the most common haplogroup in the database?

You can’t answer that because your claim collapses under basic logic.

Bottom line: either produce a larger, more transparent dataset with full regionalization, or stop making a bigger clown of yourself. If Rrenjet’s findings are so wrong, prove it with real science - not weak, emotional whining. Until then, you’re just another delusional loudmouth mad at reality.

 

[Hawk]

Your entire argument is pure deflection, paranoia, and zero science. You’ve provided no study that even remotely competes with Rrenjet in sample size, regionalization, or testing depth. Instead, you cite a pathetic 314-person study (only 102 Albanians) and another with just 111, while somehow thinking that challenges a nearly 2,000-person dataset with full geographic precision down to the village level. That’s not just wrong, it’s embarrassing.

You call WGS "irrelevant" because you don’t understand genetics. Unlike your outdated STR studies, WGS accurately identifies Y-DNA subclades (and discovering new ones) and ensures precise lineage tracking. Dismissing it shows you don’t even grasp the basics.

Your biggest hypocrisy? You mocked 291 samples from Kosovo and 136 from Macedonia as “too small” but now cite a combined 213 Albanians as your definitive proof? Pick a side - either sample size matters, or it doesn’t. This contradiction exposes your intellectual dishonesty.

Your obsession with admin haplogroups is just a pathetic deflection. Science isn’t dictated by the Y-DNA of researchers, but by data, methodology, and transparency. If Rrenjet were "anti-E-V13," then why is E-V13 still the most common haplogroup in the database?

You can’t answer that because your claim collapses under basic logic.

Bottom line: either produce a larger, more transparent dataset with full regionalization, or stop making a bigger clown of yourself. If Rrenjet’s findings are so wrong, prove it with real science - not weak, emotional whining. Until then, you’re just another delusional loudmouth mad at reality.

WGS vs. STR is irrelevant here. This is about overall haplogroup percentages, not subclades. WGS doesn’t change the fact that Janeva found 35% while Rrenjet reports 19%. That gap needs an explanation. Admin representation matters because if Rrenjet includes various haplogroups but excludes E-V13 Albanians, it raises questions. Even if E-V13 is the most common in the database (again obviously we clearly saw that, but you are trying to gasslight because our objection were about percentage differences in Kosovo and Macedonia in Rrenjet in comparison with independent papers), how were the samples collected?

Instead of giving a real answer, you attack and deflect. A credible project should welcome scrutiny, not mock criticism. If Janeva finds 35% and Rrenjet 19%, Rrenjet should explain that difference clearly.

 

[Japode]

Again, citizen science and independent researchers can be incredibly rigorous. Brushing them off as “amateurs” just because they aren’t wearing university badges is snobbery, pure and simple. Plenty of professional-level breakthroughs came from hobbyist communities who had the passion and skill to dig deep. The idea that they're systematically blocking E-V13 from admin roles or data collection is tinfoil-hat territory. An absence of E-V13 on the admin team doesn’t prove some underhanded ban. People volunteer, people step up when they have the time or expertise. If E-V13 data was actually being censored or deleted, you’d have real examples—screenshots, logs, something tangible. But you’ve presented zero evidence.

You’ve thrown around terms like “gatekeeping” and “clubhouse,” yet can’t show a single instance of actual, documented refusal. It’s a flimsy conspiracy narrative that might score drama points on social media, but it doesn’t stand up in a real discussion. Show receipts or step back. Claiming “certain circles” push anti-E-V13 views proves nothing. Which circles? Where’s the connection? Unless you can demonstrate how these alleged groups tie into the project’s actual decisions, you’re just fueling paranoia without substance.

 

[deoula]

At FTDNA, E-V13 (vs. A-PR2921) is at 37.35 % (31/83) in Kosovo, plus one E-L618 on top. So no big leap, but still 3 % higher in this smaller sample.

10% error margin (95% confidence). Might as well say Kosovo is 27% for E-V13.

 

[TheOne]

Samples on Kosove are growing. And many are currently testing WGS. Rrenjet is also launching a sub project within, which aims to test those of Albanian descent in, Turkey, the Levant and other areas they went to.

I know many Kosovo Albanians in the west that are not tested. Only met one guy there that did a test but he only did autosomal.