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David Reich Southern Arc Paper Abstract

real expert said:
Some 18th-century historians suggested based on their evidence that there were Phoenician-Celtic ties. It's believed that the Phoenicians/ Punic, who lived in Iberia/Spain, colonized a certain part of the British Isles. So, any allegedly Afro-Asiatic influence on the Celtic language is likely based on the interaction between the Phoenicians and the Celtics. It should be noted that there’s no positive evidence that the Phoenicians did trade tin in Britain. Hence, this conclusion by these 18th- century historians can’t be disproven, nor can it be proved at this point.

https://phoenicia.org/Phoenician-Celtic-connections.html

https://phoenicia.org/canaancornwall.html

https://www.caitlingreen.org/2016/12/punic-names-britain.html
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Your links appear to be mostly garbage. Connections between Western Europe and North Africa go back at least to the Neolithic. Elites in Carnac in Brittany were buried in megalithic tombs with precious stones from southwestern Iberia in 4500 BC. They were going up and down the Atlantic coast, across the Bay of Biscay, thousands of years before the Phoenicians existed. The Bell Beaker culture was in North Africa thousands of years before the Phoenicians. The Phoenician presence in the western Mediterranean is a relatively late phenomenon.
 
Just_a_Common_Guy said:
I don't deny it, but, no offense, you're incomparably more likely to be wrong than Reich. :)
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In the case of Yamnaya we already have their genomes, and they have no Levantine influence. This is not an opinion.

Even on Dodecad K12b (for some reason this is a trusted calculator in here) they have 0% Southwest_Asian.


[TD="class: xl63, width: 273"]Sample[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, width: 111"]Southwest_Asian[/TD]

[TD="class: xl63"]Yamnaya:RISE240:Allentoft_2015[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]0[/TD]

[TD="class: xl63"]Yamnaya:RISE546:Allentoft_2015[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]0[/TD]

[TD="class: xl63"]Yamnaya:RISE547:Allentoft_2015[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]0[/TD]

[TD="class: xl63"]Yamnaya:RISE548:Allentoft_2015[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]0[/TD]

[TD="class: xl63"]Yamnaya:RISE550:Allentoft_2015[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]0[/TD]

[TD="class: xl63"]Yamnaya:RISE552:Allentoft_2015[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]0[/TD]

[TD="class: xl63"]Yamnaya:MJ-06:Jarve_2019[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]0[/TD]

[TD="class: xl63"]Yamnaya:I1917:Mathieson_2018[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]0,38[/TD]

[TD="class: xl63"]Yamnaya:I2105:Mathieson_2018[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]0[/TD]

[TD="class: xl63"]Yamnaya:I3141:Mathieson_2018[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]0[/TD]

[TD="class: xl63"]Yamnaya_Bulgaria_o:Bul4:Mathieson_2018[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]3,64[/TD]

[TD="class: xl63"]Yamnaya_Caucasus:RK1001:Wang_2019[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]0[/TD]

[TD="class: xl63"]Yamnaya_Caucasus:RK1007:Wang_2019[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]0[/TD]

[TD="class: xl63"]Yamnaya_Caucasus:ZO2002:Wang_2019[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]0[/TD]

[TD="class: xl63"]Yamnaya_Samara:I0231:Mathieson_2015[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]0[/TD]

[TD="class: xl63"]Yamnaya_Samara:I0357:Mathieson_2015[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]0[/TD]

[TD="class: xl63"]Yamnaya_Samara:I0370:Mathieson_2015[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]0[/TD]

[TD="class: xl63"]Yamnaya_Samara:I0429:Mathieson_2015[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]0[/TD]

[TD="class: xl63"]Yamnaya_Samara:I0438:Mathieson_2015[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]0[/TD]

[TD="class: xl63"]Yamnaya_Samara:I0439:Mathieson_2015[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]0[/TD]

[TD="class: xl63"]Yamnaya_Samara:I0441:Mathieson_2015[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]0[/TD]

[TD="class: xl63"]Yamnaya_Samara:I0443:Mathieson_2015[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]0[/TD]

[TD="class: xl63"]Yamnaya_Samara:I0444:Mathieson_2015[/TD]
[TD="class: xl63, align: right"]0[/TD]
 
Er Monnezza said:
Ed. by Angela,

If you continue to spam those idiotic youtube videos not only will they continue to be removed, but there will be consequences for you here.

Have I made myself clear?
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See Angela, do you know what the difference is? Those videos were intentionally comical and ironic.

A lot of the crap I read in this thread however was not, such as PIE in 7000 BC, Steppe in West Africans, Levantine admixture in Yamnaya, PIE introduced by West Asian women etc.

As a moderator I would be more concerned about this.
 
I don't think much of your posts, either, so, I normally just have you on ignore.

In this case, I had to make sure you got the message about your youtube posts.

You might want to do the same with some posters.

Or, if you just don't like it here: leave.
 
Er Monnezza said:
See Angela, do you know what the difference is? Those videos were intentionally comical and ironic.

A lot of the crap I read in this thread however was not, such as PIE in 7000 BC, Steppe in West Africans, Levantine admixture in Yamnaya, PIE introduced by West Asian women etc.

As a moderator I would be more concerned about this.
Click to expand...

You seem to not understand that there are people who have different opinions than you. PIE by 6700BC is supported by academics and scientific papers. Just because you don’t like it, doesn’t mean it is useless garbage like your YouTube videos. Anthrogenica folks like you seem to have a complicated relationship with science. According to you guys everybody in the academic world is wrong but Davidski and G25 are right, it’s ridiculous.
 
Anfänger said:
You seem to not understand that there are people who have different opinions than you. PIE by 6700BC is supported by academics and scientific papers. Just because you don’t like it, doesn’t mean it is useless garbage like your YouTube videos. Anthrogenica folks like you seem to have a complicated relationship with science. According to you guys everybody in the academic world is wrong but Davidski and G25 are right, it’s ridiculous.
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Apricity has low-IQ bigots while Anthrogenica has higher-IQ bigots.

There is certainly a Davidski cult about.
 
Vallicanus said:
Apricity has low-IQ bigots while Anthrogenica has higher-IQ bigots.

There is certainly a Davidski cult about.
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Davidski provides great tools and insights, but that doesn't mean I or others can't criticise him or being critical. Everybody can be wrong at times, for different reasons, Davidski, David Reich, Johannes Krause - all the same. They provide data, tools and information, more often than not they right, but sometimes they are wrong. And oftentimes the results of one help to correct the results of the other.
Now some might criticise that I'm putting them on the same level, but if ignoring the raw data protection, they are. The quality of some of their analysis and logic outputs being not that different. And I saw much worse coming from other academic sources, than those top dogs in the field, absolute crap. Pieces which would have brought them a negative grade in my high school and university courses, because of the blatant mistakes they made.

Anyway, "cult" is really ridiculous if following the debates.
 
Hawk said:
You should know that Semitic is part of Afro-Asiatic, right? These two languages are fundamentally on the opposite edge by all means, flora, fauna, linguistic anthropology etc, etc.
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There is already some background to this.

en.wikipedia. org/wiki/Indo-Semitic_languages


Its not so hard to imagine because there are also other languages/language groups with links to IE.

en.wikipedia org/wiki/Indo-Uralic_languages
www academia.edu /3803543/Etruscan_as_an_Anatolian_language

And then we have the Caucasian Languages which share Labiovelars with Centum Indo European but not Indo Iranian.

So Indo European seems to have links to many different language families and in some cases (Etruscan) it can be more difficult whether or not classify that language as IE.


The mainstream theory of Indo European genesis on the European Steppe around 4,000BC is completely wrong. This theory just started out as North European bias.

At around the Bronze Age Central Asia is dominated by BMAC. This is what connects Europe, Middle East, India and China via Central Asia. BMAC was Iranian ie Shahname, Avesta, and that is 3,500BC. Rigveda is pre-IVC in India so that would be around 4,000BC.

Now even the Reich Lab is not certain about the Steppe Hypothesis and I suppose with this new Southern Arc thing they are moving away from the Steppe Hypothesis and this is probably just the start of rejecting the mainstream Steppe Hypothesis which really leaves the field open to other ideas and nothing stopping PIE from dating to cirque 10,000BC. But PIE is just the langugae that is the common ancestor of known IE languages. So, we can only go by the languages that are attested and those only start from just before the Iron Age, meaning a lot of diversity of IE languages is already lost ie Anatolian, Tocharian so if we found more diverged IE langauges that existed in ancient times we would have to push IE back further. In recent time more conservative IE languages have expanded from the centre of the tree and older more diverged languages have been lost hence it looks like IE is much younger than it really is.

I dont know what the reich lab is going to publish in this new paper. West Asia did not impact Steppe genetically but culturally. Genetically both West Asian farmers and Steppe coalesce around South Central Asia and to NW South Asians. Because there is a South-East to NW movement within Central Asia, we see more Southern groups in the Pontic Steppe over time, but this is not due to Near Eastern geneflow, it is just that the newer groups appearing in the European Steppe come from further South in Central Asia, hence have less EHG and ANE drift and that brings them closer to Iranians, CHG genetically.

But Nomads and Farmers have existed in IE culture for many thousands of years, though IE coalesces at the nomadic cow-herding society from which most farmers also descend. The Cow, Wheel and Horse all predate farming but we just dont find them because nomads dont leave much trace (unless they build kurgans) so all the dates for nomads, cattle and horses are all messed up in this field.

PIE was the cow-herding stage prior to the Neolithic so it would have existed 10,000BC, but none of the diverged langauges have any descendants today so we cannot reconstruct that time-depth back, todays IE languages are those that expanded and diverged more recently so we get a more shallow time-depth when looking at it.

The Steppe, it was totally dominated in the BA by the BMAC Iranians. There was probably no Civilization ever that had as big an impact as BMAC. It literally coincides with a age of prosperity, migration, trade, development of complex state systems in India, and a huge amount of Iranian linguistic and cultural superstrate in the Germanic languages.
 
Hawk said:
You should know that Semitic is part of Afro-Asiatic, right? These two languages are fundamentally on the opposite edge by all means, flora, fauna, linguistic anthropology etc, etc.
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Just for the word Seven I looked it up in the afro asiatic languages not including semetic and it does not sound like Indo European at all. So for the word Seven Semetic groups with Indo European but not other Afro-Asiatic languages. This is just one word though.
 
When Iranian J1 moved and invaded the South they changed their languages to Semitic and some words remained in common with the other original Iranian J1 branches that remained in the North.
 
So is the paper coming out tomorrow or has the date changed again?
 
eupator said:
So is the paper coming out tomorrow or has the date changed again?
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It’s coming out tomorrow and I hope that they have unadmixed (before 6500 BC) CHG/Iran samples from the southern Caucasus if not I am sure we won’t get any further in the debate about the PIE Urheimat.
 
I noticed new information on the upcoming paper at www.Eurasiandna.com

9o86wCs.jpg
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rUXLsbx.jpg
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Ghani said:
I noticed new information on the upcoming paper at www.Eurasiandna.com
Thus the Reich team appears to have proven that -----------------------------
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Long time ago Coon was a god in anthro forum. Next rising star was definitely Anthony. Now Reich
As soon as his team member was tweeting, the message was typed in bold letters, in every forum. And here is WOW, there is WOW. It looks like Moses got ten commandments on the Sinai mountain.

How about considering the critical question about population genetics on the EVE of big event?

"Jaakko Häkkinen said...
Besides, genetic results are not any more reliable than the linguistic results. With different methods you get different results, and even with the same method you get different results, depending on the sample"
 
For those interested in the southern arc paper, Razib Khan just tweeted this:

"Will be doing rooms on Twitter spaces and clubhouse at 6 pdt on indoEuropeans tomorrow in anticipation of a paper drop…“
 
So, Proto IE is from steppe, from Yamnaya. That's what the paper claims lol.
 
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