Breakdown of R1b subclades by French region

Maciamo

Veteran member
Admin
Messages
10,086
Reaction score
3,509
Points
113
Location
Lothier
Ethnic group
Italo-celto-germanic
I have calculated the frequency of each of the main R1b clade in every region of France last year in order to update the R1b maps. I used Nevgen to determine the subclades of samples from FTDNA that were not confirmed by SNP testing. It seems that I forgot to post the table with the results, so here it is.

The first row shows the number of samples. The percentages are for all haplogroups combined, not the percentage of a clade within the total of R1b.

Note that I grouped Z56 and Z193 together as both are of Italic/Roman origin. Likewise the the Celtic Z36 and U152* are together. U152>L2 could be either, so it's in a column of its own.

RegionR1b-DF27R1b-L21R1b-Z56 & Z193R1b-U152>L2R-Z36 & U152*R1b-DF19R1b-U106L51/P312Z2103PF7562V88Total% R1b
Alsace3434410113043.2
Percentages4.325.764.325.765.76014.401.4401.44
Aquitaine131311848
Percentages34.672.670.008.000.000.002.670.000.000.000.00
Bourgogne-Franche Comté511324111761
Percentages17.943.593.5910.767.180.0014.353.590.000.003.59
Bretagne9176523977.4
Percentages17.8633.740.0011.910.000.009.923.970.000.000.00
Centre-Val de Loire6631332268.6
Percentages18.7118.710.009.353.120.009.359.350.000.000.00
Champagne-Lorraine753325112746.8
Percentages12.138.675.205.203.470.008.671.731.730.000.00
Île-de-France31331054.7
Percentages16.415.470.0016.410.000.0016.410.000.000.000.00
Languedoc3112121055
Percentages16.505.505.5011.000.005.500.0011.000.000.000.00
Limousin-Auvergne73511653.3
Percentages23.329.990.0016.660.000.000.003.330.000.000.00
Midi-Pyrénées51311055
Percentages27.505.500.0016.500.000.000.005.500.000.000.00
Nord-Pas-de-Calais6221311555.2
Percentages22.087.360.007.360.003.6811.043.680.000.000.00
Normandie151619213316063.2
Percentages15.8016.851.059.480.002.1113.693.161.050.000.00
Pays de la Loire8101711323370.2
Percentages17.0221.272.1314.892.130.002.136.384.250.000.00
Picardie4331054.2
Percentages21.680.000.0016.260.000.0016.260.000.000.000.00
Poitou-Charentes20949285115963.2
Percentages21.429.644.289.642.140.008.575.361.071.070.00
Provence82211356.9
Percentages35.028.758.750.000.000.004.380.000.000.000.00
Rhône-Alpes9113332060.4
Percentages27.183.023.029.060.000.009.060.009.060.000.00
 
Thank you, thank you, thank you, for all the aggregated French data.
The more information there is of French genetics out there, the better.

I should have studied the French language, but it is more practical at the time to have a reading knowledge of Spanish.
 
Interesting split for DF19. Normandy and Nord-Pas de Calais point to northern sourcing.
Languedoc was a Visigoth center, but none of the probable Visigoth samples so far have turned up DF19, so it may be something completely different (Franks or later).
The fact that none shows in Brittany makes me think DF19 wasn't high in Britons prior to Roman times (when they entered Britain as auxiliaries/foederati).
I'm mildly surprised to see none in Alsace, but all the numbers are so low, it may just not be statistically significant anywhere.
 
Well, the "Celtic" lines have surprisingly low percentages. I suppose about 9% of the "Italic" lineages is good for Provence; surprised by the 35% DF27.
 
if not inventoried, you can add for next update one Norman more for DF27 (Z195- R-BY27831* Yfull [COLOR=green !important]id:YF083613[/COLOR]
FRA [FR-50]fra
or R-BY27832* for FTDNA).
 
if not inventoried, you can add for next update one Norman more for DF27 (Z195- R-BY27831* Yfull id:YF083613
FRA [FR-50]

or R-BY27832* for FTDNA).
 
@Maciamo

Any chance of a similar breakdown for Italy, Spain, etc?
 
Well, the "Celtic" lines have surprisingly low percentages. I suppose about 9% of the "Italic" lineages is good for Provence; surprised by the 35% DF27.

I think R1b DF27 is the predominant lineage among Western Celts other than R1b L21
 
It is interesting to note the relatively high levels of R1b-U106. I expect that this will represent Frenchmen decended from the people who gave France its name: the Franks.
 
Thank you very much.

I wonder which specific branches of U152, DF27, Z2103, E1b and J2 could be associated with what the ancient authors called the "Ligurians"
 
FTDNA database

Number of Y-DNA testers with French flag to date: 3248
R1b: 1902 (58.56%)

Among these 1902 R1b testers with French flag,

Confirmed for R-DF27: 479 (~18.5%)
Confirmed as non-R-DF27: ~1038

Confirmed for R-U152: 388 (~15%)
Confirmed as non-R-U152: ~1129

Confirmed for R-L21: 304 (~11.7%)
Confirmed as non-R-L21: ~1213

Confirmed for R-U106: 249 (~9%)
Confirmed as non-R-U106: ~1373

Confirmed for R-Z2103: 35 (~1.2%)
Confirmed as non-R-Z2103: ~1621

Other R1b: ~3%

Other haplogroups: 41.44%
I1: ~8.86%
J2: ~7.26%
I2: ~6.34%
G: ~6.28%
E: ~5.72%
R1a: ~2.49%
J1: ~1.50%
T: ~1.07%
...
 
Last edited:
It is interesting to note the relatively high levels of R1b-U106. I expect that this will represent Frenchmen decended from the people who gave France its name: the Franks.

High levels??? A country named after Germanic peoples should have way more U106.
That's superrare.

It's even more Hispanic than Frankish.
Only 16% in the northern regions and in the center drops to 10%.

What happened during the Middle Ages or the French Revolution??
May be the low birth rates of the XVIII and XIX century??
 
Elite conquests don't leave much of a trace in the population at large. How much of the Huns and other Siberian tribes is left in modern Hungarians? How much U-106 is left in Italy once you move beyond the marches of the Veneto? Not much even there.

You should go back and read Ralph and Coop. You can see it in the autosomes as well.

I saw a paper just recently which looked back at genealogies and found the highest classes and the lowest classes leave far fewer descendants than the middle classes even in relatively modern times. I'll try to find it.
 
"In the first expansive period, from 2500 BC to about 2000 BC, L21 and its subclades were founded, split and expanded throughout the Atlantic Beaker range. Sometime later in the middle Bronze a second expansion occurred and the expansion extended to Scotland."

"...we see the principal ‘Western R1b’ haplogroups R-DF27, R-L21, R-U106 and R-U152. Flood (2016) regards these as the genetic expressions of separate settlements - R-L21 in the south-west English mining and religious settlement, R-U106 around the North Sea, R-U152 on the Rhone, in Lombardy and the Cisalpine area, while R-DF27 represents the original Iberian settlement."

"Ireland is particularly important for L21. A Bell Beaker arsenical bronze smelting industry at Ross Island in the south-west of Ireland dates to 2400 BC, when the local sulpharsenide ores were smelted to produce most of the arsenical bronze axes used in Britain. Traded artefacts from the site have been found in the south of Britain, while large numbers of artefacts using Cornish gold have been found in Ireland.12 A long-suspected relationship between Bell Beaker peoples and R1b DNA has now been confirmed by the sequencing of the first ancient Bronze Age genome in the Isles (Cassidy et al. 2016). Remains at Rathlin Island off the north coast of Ireland have been dated to 2050 BC and are L21>DF21, the largest subclade of L21 prior to the Christian era."

"It appears that the Beaker expansion hit its carrying capacity quite quickly, because after about 2000 BC there are few new branches in the L21 haplotree until the Common Era. One exception is very significant branching in the L513/DF1 subclade about 6 SNPs or 800 years from the formation of L21. This might correspond to a mid-Bronze population expansion in Scotland; a late Scottish Bronze Age where arable land expanded at the expense of forests; perhaps because all suitable land had been cleared in England and by this time and settlers turned to more marginal land in Scotland. This may have occurred as late as the Bronze Age Climatic Optimum around 1600 BC, when climate change made settlement further north more practicable."

https://www.academia.edu/24686284/T...alf_millennia_of_expansion_and_redistribution
 
High levels??? A country named after Germanic peoples should have way more U106.

I thought it was a comment from Cristiano Viejo :)

Why SHOULD a population have a certain amount of a certain haplogroup according to you?
 
I thought it was a comment from Cristiano Viejo :)

Why SHOULD a population have a certain amount of a certain haplogroup according to you?

From Cristiano Viejo 🙄🙄🙄.
Well maybe it's because France comes from Frank.
And always seemed like a very unitarian nation.
Way before strong states existed in the rest of Europe, there was the French Monarchy.
 
From Cristiano Viejo ������������������.
Well maybe it's because France comes from Frank.
And always seemed like a very unitarian nation.
Way before strong states existed in the rest of Europe, there was the French Monarchy.

What percentage of R1B U106 should Aquitanian, Provencal and French Basque have according to you?
 

This thread has been viewed 5556 times.

Back
Top