Alexander the Great's FATHER is found.

[Vitruvius]

You are trying to deny the obvious, there is autosomal Slavic influence among Macedonian Greeks, i would say the amount is far less than other Balkan Slavs and comparable to Albanians. This is not even up for discussion. We all have seen the autosomal over and over again.

What's obvious is that the Macedonian Greek autosomal profile closely matches the bordering Paeonians who were absolutely not Slavic related. You cannot deny this.

 

[Archetype0ne]

IDK, but we have both historical and genetic evidence of slavic migration/admixture in the region. % can be argued, but not the premise. Unless you dont mean continuity in its pure autosomal form. But from what I read thats the impression you gave.

 

[Dianatomia]

Correct, which is why Macedonian Greeks and other mainlanders look autosomally like Iron Age Paeonians right now.



You cannot claim at all how much Y-DNA changed on a population whose predecessors we don't even have access to. What's more is that Y-DNA is not useful for quantifying ancestry so it's a moot point.



I never denied Slavic admixture in the Balkans as a whole.

Do not discard the time frame between the Hellenistic Age and the Slavic arrival. Macedonia, Pella, Thessaloniki became an epicentre. It attracted migrants from other parts of the Greek world and Asia Minor. This could have reduced Steppe ancestry in North Greeks By the Roman Age. Then Slavs induced more Steppe.

One way or the other, Slavs we in Greek Macedonia. Ancient Macedonians were almost certainly more Med. than modern Greek Macedonians.

 

[Vitruvius]

Do not discard the time frame between the Hellenistic Age and the Slavic arrival. Macedonia, Pella, Thessaloniki became an epicentre. It attracted migrants from other parts of the Greek world and Asia Minor. This could have reduced Steppe ancestry in North Greeks By the Roman Age. Then Slavs induced more Steppe.

Until there is evidence for this, I see no reason why we should assume it to be the case. What's more is that, migration does not always equate to autosomal impact as has been seen time and time again. These things have to be evidenced with before and after samples.

One way or the other, Slavs we in Greek Macedonia. Ancient Macedonians were almost certainly more Med.

Unlikely, but let's discuss their autosomal profile when/if we get it. I'm not putting any money on a Cretan-like Macedonian average.

 

[Dianatomia]

Until there is evidence for this, I see no reason why we should assume it to be the case. What's more is that, migration does not always equate to autosomal impact as has been seen time and time again. These things have to be evidenced with before and after samples.


Unlikely, but let's discuss their Autosomal profile when/if we get it. I'm not putting any money on a Cretan-like Macedonian average.

A Cretan-like Ancient Macedonian is much more likely than a modern Greek-Macedonian like Ancient Macedonian.

 

[Vitruvius]

A Cretan-like Ancient Macedonian is much more likely than a modern Greek-Macedonian like Ancient Macedonian.

I disagree entirely, but let's wait and find out. That should be the easiest question to answer for this topic.

 

[Dianatomia]

I disagree entirely, but let's wait and find out. That should be the easiest question to answer for this topic.

Also, the Ancient Macedonians lived on a small piece of land called Emathia. They descended from the Pindus mountains by the thousands. There were Mycenaeans on the coast of Emathia. The Macedonians had also pushed Paeonians a bit more Northwards. There were also other tribes living there called Bryges. And probably Thracians as well. The Chalkidiki peninsula had many Ionian Greek colonies. Later the Athenians established Amphipolis in the Northeast of Macedonia. To collect timber and wood. Also Epirot Greeks were living Northwest of Emathia. All of these people became part of Philip’s kingdom. The known kingdom in Northern Greece which subdued all the Greeks.

It’s impossible that the Macedonians retained their tribal character by the Roman Age. They are an extinct tribe. As are the Athenians. Their unique character no longer exists either.

By the Roman Age, Thessaloniki and Philippi probably had more inhabitants than the Macedonian tribe in Emathia ever had. It’s these people who mixed with the Slavs.

 

[Vallicanus]

You are trying to deny the obvious, there is autosomal Slavic influence among Macedonian Greeks, i would say the amount is far less than other Balkan Slavs and comparable to Albanians. This is not even up for discussion. We all have seen the autosomal over and over again.

Irrelevant in a thread about Alexander's father and relatives.
None were Slavs or proto-Slavs.

 

[Hawk]

Irrelevant in a thread about Alexander's father and relatives.
None were Slavs or proto-Slavs.

Looks like you follow me in every thread you little weasel with the "patronizing" replies. So, drop that off.

The context of the discussion was not if Alexander's father and relatives were Slavs and Proto-Slavs, which they were not of course. It was about Slavic autosomal in modern peninsular Greeks which i am correct for sure, and it wasn't started by me.

 

[Vallicanus]

Looks like you follow me in every thread you little weasel with the "patronizing" replies. So, drop that off.

The context of the discussion was not if Alexander's father and relatives were Slavs and Proto-Slavs, which they were not of course. It was about Slavic autosomal in modern peninsular Greeks which i am correct for sure, and it wasn't started by me.

I don't follow you in every thread. You are not that informative.
Check your memory and don't name call someone just because you disagree.
So watch your lack of manners.

 

[Hawk]

I don't follow you in every thread. You are not that informative.
Check your memory and don't name call someone just because you disagree.
So watch your lack of manners.

This is like the 3rd time in a row you quote me out of context. The vibe is clear, i respect people accordingly.

If someone follows the discussion and sees your reply, it's clear cut yours is a troll attempt.

 

[Vallicanus]

Looks like you follow me in every thread you little weasel with the "patronizing" replies. So, drop that off.

The context of the discussion was not if Alexander's father and relatives were Slavs and Proto-Slavs, which they were not of course. It was about Slavic autosomal in modern peninsular Greeks which i am correct for sure, and it wasn't started by me.

What vibe?
Watch your manners. Why should I follow your posts.
You are not very interesting or informative.

 

[mount123]

You are trying to deny the obvious, there is autosomal Slavic influence among Macedonian Greeks, i would say the amount is far less than other Balkan Slavs and comparable to Albanians. This is not even up for discussion. We all have seen the autosomal over and over again.

Slavic patrilineages in modern Greek Macedonians and Greek Thracians oscillate between 30% to 40% which is a whole lot more than in Albanians. I'd say pop distances in this context are indeed not actual admixture distances. They're also not Paeonian-like.

You are not very interesting or informative.

Highly disagree. I have learned a lot from Hawk's posts and he is one of those members who have actual archeological knowlegde on the prehistory of Southeast Europe. He's always out here quoting good quality academic work on the field.

 

[Vallicanus]

Slavic patrilineages in modern Greek Macedonians and Greek Thracians oscillate between 30% to 40% which is a whole lot more than in Albanians. I'd say pop distances in this context are indeed not actual admixture distances. They're also not Paeonian-like.


Highly disagree. I have learned a lot from Hawk's posts and he is one of those members who have actual archeological knowlegde on the prehistory of Southeast Europe. He's always out here quoting good quality academic work on the field.

The point is why go on about Slavs in the Balkans when they did not enter that region for nearly 1,000 years after Philip and Alexander?

 

[Vitruvius]

Slavic patrilineages in modern Greek Macedonians and Greek Thracians oscillate between 30% to 40% which is a whole lot more than in Albanians. I'd say pop distances in this context are indeed not actual admixture distances.

Partilineages do not matter for quantifying ancestry which is the topic he is debating - only autosomal does. Autosomally Greek Macedonians overlap Paeonians. Population distances cannot be denied because they can't even be manipulated from the start unlike admixture results.

 

[Hawk]

The point is why go on about Slavs in the Balkans when they did not enter that region for nearly 1,000 years after Philip and Alexander?

We were talking about modern Greek Macedonians autosomal, so you don't have to act like police patrol in the thread, we know 100% what the thread is about.

You replied to me with malicious pretensions, and you did 3rd time in a row in different threads.

 

[Vitruvius]

Looks like you follow me in every thread you little weasel with the "patronizing" replies. So, drop that off.

I think it is you who should drop off throwing a fit and name calling towards anyone who isn't buying your slavic repopulation idea. Your beliefs are emotionally charged and unconvincing to me and your rudeness is only doubling down on this fact.

 

[mount123]

The point is why go on about Slavs in the Balkans when they did not enter that region for nearly 1,000 years after Philip and Alexander?

Hawk was referencing Vitruvius' posts on modern Greek Macedonians and his claims, which are indeed not in alignment with historical, archeological and modern pop gen data.

We have discussed Alexander the Great in the Balkan BA thread a bit. IIRC there was also some leak info on the samples from Greek Macedonia (from some Greek anthrofora guy), the core looked more Mycenaean-like (I need to fact check that again) with some samples being shifted toward or plotting exactly like Southwest Balkan IA. During the late BCE-CE era there is a shift toward the Southeast. Pretty much what we've seen in most Southeast European related papers.

Partilineages do not matter for quantifying ancestry which is the topic he is debating - only autosomal does.

Y-DNA, MtDNA and auDNA are all three key in deciphering the genetics of a pop. You cannot discard either one.

 

[Vallicanus]

I think it is you who should drop off throwing a fit and name calling towards anyone who isn't buying your slavic repopulation idea. Your beliefs are emotionally charged and unconvincing to me and your rudeness is only doubling down on this fact.

We were talking about modern Greek Macedonians autosomal, so you don't have to act like police patrol in the thread, we know 100% what the thread is about.

You replied to me with malicious pretensions, and you did 3rd time in a row in different threads.

Malicious pretensions in different threads?

So anybody that disagrees with you is pretentious. Shucks.

 

[Hawk]

Malicious pretensions in different threads?

So anybody that disagrees with you is pretentious. Shucks.

Dude, stop playing the goofy cat role. You didn't disagree with me, you quoted me out of context, missquoted me, out of nowhere for the sake of it.

Now, let's move on, and stop playing the police patrol in a thread.