Question African R1b

[BillMC]

Sometime during the Neolithic age R1b-V88 migrated south towards the Levant and Egypt and onwards to central Africa. Sub Saharan Africans are often referred to as being black, yet they will have varying degrees of pigmentation. Considering the fact that R1b Africans have white ancesters from about 9000 years ago, would they still by any chance have the lightest pigmentations among sub Saharan Africans?

 

[Hawk]

R1b-V88 is quite concentrated in a single region if my memory is correct.

I also don't really think the trajectory was Levant => Egypt => Central Africa.

Rather somewhere from Southern Europe => Maghreb => North Cameroon.

It's one of the Mesolithic European lineages, and it's quite strange and interesting in Europe we don't find much of it, rather it ended up somewhere in North Cameroon.

 

[BillMC]

R1b-V88 is quite concentrated in a single region if my memory is correct.

I also don't really think the trajectory was Levant => Egypt => Central Africa.

Rather somewhere from Southern Europe => Maghreb => North Cameroon.

It's one of the Mesolithic European lineages, and it's quite strange and interesting in Europe we don't find much of it, rather it ended up somewhere in North Cameroon.

According to one of the narratives on Eupedia's R1b page:
'R1b-V88 migrated south towards the Levant and Egypt. The migration of R1b people can be followed archeologically through the presence of domesticated cattle, which appear in central Syria around 8,000-7,500 BCE (late Mureybet period), then in the Southern Levant and Egypt around 7,000-6,500 BCE (e.g. at Nabta Playa and Bir Kiseiba). Cattle herders subsequently spread across most of northern and eastern Africa. The Sahara desert would have been more humid during the Neolithic Subpluvial period (c. 7250-3250 BCE), and would have been a vast savannah full of grass, an ideal environment for cattle herding.'

Yet another narrative said that it came into western Europe via the Maghreb:
'After reaching the Maghreb, R1b-V88 cattle herders could have crossed the Strait of Gibraltar to Iberia, probably accompanied by G2 farmers, J1 and T1a goat herders. These North African Neolithic farmers/herders could have been the ones who established the Almagra Pottery culture in Andalusia in the 6th millennium BCE.'
It would therefore appear that some of the R1b-V88 people moved along the north African coast and into SW Europe.

Haplogroup R1b (Y-DNA)

History and description of Haplogroup R1b (Y-chromosomal DNA) and its subclades. Haplogroup R1b is the dominant paternal lineage in Western Europe. It represents the Greco-Anatolian, Italic, Celtic and Germanic branches of the Indo-European speakers.

www.eupedia.com

 

[Hawk]

According to one of the narratives on Eupedia's R1b page:
'R1b-V88 migrated south towards the Levant and Egypt. The migration of R1b people can be followed archeologically through the presence of domesticated cattle, which appear in central Syria around 8,000-7,500 BCE (late Mureybet period), then in the Southern Levant and Egypt around 7,000-6,500 BCE (e.g. at Nabta Playa and Bir Kiseiba). Cattle herders subsequently spread across most of northern and eastern Africa. The Sahara desert would have been more humid during the Neolithic Subpluvial period (c. 7250-3250 BCE), and would have been a vast savannah full of grass, an ideal environment for cattle herding.'

Yet another narrative said that it came into western Europe via the Maghreb:
'After reaching the Maghreb, R1b-V88 cattle herders could have crossed the Strait of Gibraltar to Iberia, probably accompanied by G2 farmers, J1 and T1a goat herders. These North African Neolithic farmers/herders could have been the ones who established the Almagra Pottery culture in Andalusia in the 6th millennium BCE.'
It would therefore appear that some of the R1b-V88 people moved along the north African coast and into SW Europe.

Haplogroup R1b (Y-DNA)

History and description of Haplogroup R1b (Y-chromosomal DNA) and its subclades. Haplogroup R1b is the dominant paternal lineage in Western Europe. It represents the Greco-Anatolian, Italic, Celtic and Germanic branches of the Indo-European speakers.

www.eupedia.com

Those cattle herders were likely Afro-Asiatic speakers so overhelmly E-M35 carriers with some Y-DNA T minority, unless some R1b-V88 joined them, cannot know. But i tend to better guess that they ended up via Southern European route.

 

[MOESAN]

The Wiki version seems supporting an European origin, what IMO doesn't exclude some backflow at some time.
I' tempted to follow it.
[... R1b1b (PF6279/V88; previously R1b1a2) is defined by the presence of SNP marker V88, the discovery of which was announced in 2010 by Cruciani et al.[44] Apart from individuals in southern Europe and Western Asia, the majority of R-V88 was found in the Sahel, especially among populations speaking Afroasiatic languages of the Chadic branch.

Based on a detailed phylogenic analysis, D'Atanasio et al. (2018) proposed that R1b-V88 originated in Europe about 12,000 years ago and crossed to North Africa between 8000 and 7000 years ago, during the 'Green Sahara' period. R1b-V1589, the main subclade within R1b-V88, underwent a further expansion around 5500 years ago, likely in the Lake Chad Basin region, from which some lines recrossed the Sahara to North Africa.[70]

Marcus et al. (2020) provide strong evidence for this proposed model of North to South trans-Saharan movement: The earliest basal R1b-V88 haplogroups are found in several Eastern European Hunter Gatherers close to 11,000 years ago. The haplogroup then seemingly spread with the expansion of Neolithic farmers, who established agriculture in the Western Mediterranean by around 7500 BP. R1b-V88 haplogroups were identified in ancient Neolithic individuals in Germany, central Italy, Iberia, and, at a particularly high frequency, in Sardinia. A part of the branch leading to present-day African haplogroups (V2197) was already derived in Neolithic European individuals from Spain and Sardinia, providing further support for a North to South trans-Saharan movement.[71][72][73] European autosomal ancestry, mtDNA haplogroups, and lactase persistence alleles have also been identified in African populations that carry R1b-V88 at a high frequency, such as the Fulani and Toubou.[74][75][76][77] The presence of European Neolithic farmers in Africa is further attested by samples from Morocco dating from c. 5400 BC onwards.
...].
I suppose (Eupedia) Maciamo based his theory upon the link he made betwenn first cattle herders and Y-R1v bearers?