Actual Medieval Rurikid DNA - not from modern people who claim descent from Rurik

Rurik was a Varangian prince. The Varangians were of Viking stock from Scandinavia (I2a2) who ruled over the Finnic (N1c1) and Slavic (R1a) tribes. Rurik's Finnic (N1c1) ancestry can be explained by the fact that he was a Kven Viking. 68% of Rurik's descendants had hg N1c1, while some Rurikid princes carried I2a and R1a. For instance, Prince Stanislaw Antoni Czetwertynski was found to belong to the I2a2 haplogroup, which is typical for the native population of the Belarussian-Ukrainian Polissiya region. According to the Y-DNA haplogroup chart compiled by the Rurikid DNA Dynasty Project, some R1a Rurikid princes were descendants of Rurik on maternal branches (i.e. the Dunin clan), which is why they didn't inherit N1c1 through the paternal line.

https://www.familytreedna.com/public/rurikid/default.aspx?section=yresults
False, N1c1, R1a and I2a are all Slavic Eastern European haplogroups, Varangians were Baltic Slavs from South Baltic coast, further N1c1 in Scandinavia is practically non existent and was brought with Eastern European migration from South Baltic coast probably during Teutonic crusades in the region, the N1c1 was assigned a Scandinavian origin through false pretenses because some people that were Swedish today were found to have haplogroups close to his N1c1 however there were also a number of Eastern Europeans from Russia, Ukraine, Estonia etc... that were also found to contain similar haplogroup so his Swedish origin is not accurate, further N1c1 in Sweden is small and insignificant and comes from two sources Finnish N1c1 and South Batic Slavic N1c1 and this branch grew more heavily after Ruric came to Russia and ruled, the region with highest N1c1 in Sweden is around Birka but in the early medeival era this was a South Balto-Slavic trading post set up by foreign migrants from this region so this explains also the N1c1 presence.
 
It's not sure the southern Veneti language was in between Celtic and Italic, it seems they were rather on the Italic side, the Latino-Faliscan one, and was an archaic form stayed longer in North in proximity of proto-Germanic (according to B. Sergent, early Italic kept in its first stage more ties with proto-Germanic and with proto-Slavic than did Celtic) ; things are not clear at all; I don't exclude first veneti being part of Lusacian culture at Urnfields times (West the Vistula/Wisla), separated from ancestors of Qw- Latins by the coming of Osco-Umbrians (P- Italics) : here I 'd need the help of a knowledged archeologist; it's possible the Germanics applied the name of this ethny to other close neighbours in Poland, a bit further East, among them Balto-Slavic tribes, or proto-Baltic and/or proto-Slavs; when true Veneti left the North to go towards South, under diverse pressions, this name, evolved in Venedi, applied later to the remnant of neighbours, possibly Balts and/or Slavs; this way of unprecise namings is common, Germanics applied the 'walah' terminology to a lot of foreign pops everywhere when at first it qualified a Celtic tribe only! (Welsh, Wallach... even maybe Gaul) - this Venedi can explain the Wend term, applied today to a Slavic group in East-Germany -
Veneti were main ancestors of todays slavonic peoples, in fact all peoples of Eastern Europe in past are ancestors of todays Slavs/Russians, proto-Germanic culture, language and religion did not really exist it only came later with influence of migrants that settled what is modern day Germany, German language is proof of this as it contains loan words from celtic, slavic and latin in high amounts and modern day Germany was only created in late 19th century further word Veneti/Venedi is easily explainable in Slavonic languages from word ''venets'' which means crown or diadem, ''vedi'' which means knowledge, ''voda'' which means leader or to lead and many more also if you analyze the word Slaveni it contains word veneti inside its last component.
 
200 BC can be very well a Gothic ethnic, not a Slavic one.
Actually 200 BC fits much better the Gothic migrations, not the Slavic migrations.
Slavic migrations started around 600 AD, not around 200 BC.
We do not know when exactly the Goths started to move South but we know that the legend was telling that the Gothic tribes started to move from South Sweden, this is what Jordanes also tells in his book.
The archaelogical proofs are showing Goths in North Germany and in NW Poland from where they are migrating South.
In regards to mister Rurik, it is atested by various historians that Old Norse was spoken in Kievan Rus.
Also, it was said by various historical sources that mister Rurik came from Sweden.
Old Norse was not Gothic ,since Gothic is East Germanic language and if mister Rurik had some I2-din as paternal line, he could be from the persons from Sweden that still had I2-din.But he was a Swedish ethnic, that had as mother tongue Old Norse.
So we cannot tell that mister Rurik was a Slavic ethnic, just because he had I2-din paternal line.
See that is another thread opened by Tomenable, about Vikings DNA and some or more Vikings are scoring high Polish-like DNA admixture.
Some early Slavs and some Norse people might have lived together, somewhere, before Slavic migration started.
I think is without doubt that mister Rurik was actually a Swedish ethnic.

"According to the Primary Chronicle, Rurik was one of the Rus', a Varangian tribe likened by the chronicler to Danes, Swedes, Angles, and Gotlanders."
Gotlanders were the inhabitants of Gotland island, which is in the extreme South of Sweden.
So I2-din might have been rare, around 700 - 800 AD, in South of Sweden, but still present.
Gothic tribes were essentially proto-Slavs/Russian and came from Scythia orginally being part of the Thracian Getae or the Messagetae who were roaming the vast steppes of modern day Russia, futher the word Goth is easily explainable from Slavic/Russian words while in Germanic it is not, such words as Godi which means "to do something at the right time", "to adjust, to make appropriate", also Gotov which means the ''state of being ready'', Gotovit which means to prepare, they are also other words such as Gog and Magog the legendary forefathers of the nation of the Scythians and the Scythian self designation as Scoloti as well as the name of the Cossacks (Gossack) and also minor words such as the istruments gudok, gusli and musician which can be gudoshnik.
 
Gothic tribes were essentially proto-Slavs/Russian and came from Scythia orginally being part of the Thracian Getae or the Messagetae who were roaming the vast steppes of modern day Russia, futher the word Goth is easily explainable from Slavic/Russian words while in Germanic it is not, such words as Godi which means "to do something at the right time", "to adjust, to make appropriate", also Gotov which means the ''state of being ready'', Gotovit which means to prepare, they are also other words such as Gog and Magog the legendary forefathers of the nation of the Scythians and the Scythian self designation as Scoloti as well as the name of the Cossacks (Gossack) and also minor words such as the istruments gudok, gusli and musician which can be gudoshnik.
Sorry but it seems to me you need a lot of more serious readings, or you're doing a mess of what you came in contact with, at first sight.
 
Sorry but it seems to me you need a lot of more serious readings, or you're doing a mess of what you came in contact with, at first sight.
Like which ones exactly? When Goths migrated from Eastern Europe into Poland from their old homeland in Thrace and Scythia they used to be called the Massagetae or the Getae, originally they did not come from Germany or Scandinavia but Eastern Europe/Russia. Also in sagas Odin Skjold the first god king and leader of what would become the Germanic peoples came with his tribe of Goths from Scythia in the Skjöldunga saga and the Ynglinga saga, his name ''Odin'' by the way means ''one'' or ''unite'' in Russian and the way old Germans refer to him as ''Voda'' is simply the Russian word for ''leader'', his last name ''Skjold'' is actually just a corruption of the Scythian self-designation ''Scoloti''. This migration is also confirmed by genetics through diffusion of R1a in this region from core regions in Scythia further the word Scandinavia is composed of two components ''Scandi'' which means Scythia and ''Navia'' which means new so naturally New Scythia, why dont you refute the info I present instead of doing basic statements that mean nothing.
 
I read it. Interesting. I stay puzzled, sure of nothing.
the paper speaks of the Celtic Veneti of Brittany. What it says is often true, but the explanations of the causes of breton Venetic (Vannetais or Gwenedeg) appearent closeness to old Venetic trends are a bit too quickly made. Gwenedeg is the dialect I speak, and the [dj] to[zh] evolution in it is exceptionnel and purely individual, under French evolution. And French as a whole is closer to modern Slavic phonetic evolutions than ths Breton dialect, you can trust in me. So the continental Celts had some ties with Slavs? Or it's rather a similar substrata influence? Or it is just hazard (I don't like it, it's true).

ATW, I'm not sure at all old
The continental celts originally came from Scythia itself their name is also corruption of Scoloti and they spread themselves from Pomeranian culture into Western Europe, their culture, religion and clothing is also very similar (the way they worship their gods, the blue tatoos on their skin, the way they present themselves as the elite to their people with metal animal styles on their head etc...)
 
Too much superficial etymologies by rough analogies. Lack of genetic and linguistic support (among them the precise study of the Y-R1a SNP's). If I would follow your reasonings, almost the two thirds of Europe pop would be of Slavic-Scythian origin? I leave to others the work to explain you in details.
example of false cognates: your scoloti and germanic skjöld: this last one < < Origin and Meaning. Germanic name element. Old Norse. skjǫldr = 'shield'. Gothic. skildus = 'shield'. Old High German. scilt = 'shield'. Old Saxon 'scild', Old English 'scield'; the evolution e+ld/ln/rn into jö+id/ln/rn is common in Norse languages, more in Swedish.
 
Too much superficial etymologies by rough analogies. Lack of genetic and linguistic support (among them the precise study of the Y-R1a SNP's). If I would follow your reasonings, almost the two thirds of Europe pop would be of Slavic-Scythian origin? I leave to others the work to explain you in details.
example of false cognates: your scoloti and germanic skjöld: this last one < < Origin and Meaning. Germanic name element. Old Norse. skjǫldr = 'shield'. Gothic. skildus = 'shield'. Old High German. scilt = 'shield'. Old Saxon 'scild', Old English 'scield'; the evolution e+ld/ln/rn into jö+id/ln/rn is common in Norse languages, more in Swedish.
Ya of course because an ultra significant god king leader would put as his last name the simple word ''shield'', this etymological explanation is as riduculous as it is insulting and it a product of Germano-centrism that plagued historical education up until today such other etymology was drawn for words such as Geuta which means to pour as in pour glass of water which they use to explain name of Goths or name 'Sven' that Germano centrist explain from word boy even though there is much more significant etymological explanation from Slavonic such as 'Svet' which means light, holy, divine, Odin Skjold directly alludes to his origin and where he came from, in sagas it states directly that he came from SCYTHIA and btw if you would happen to notice 2/3 of Europe is SLAVIC/RUSSIAN everything East of Denmark peninsula is Slavonic or was once colonized by Slavic peoples and real varangians came from south baltic coast and used to colonize huge portion of Denmark and Germany, they built such cities as Lubeck, Rostock, Berlin, Schleswig and Hedeby.
 
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Too much superficial etymologies by rough analogies. Lack of genetic and linguistic support (among them the precise study of the Y-R1a SNP's). If I would follow your reasonings, almost the two thirds of Europe pop would be of Slavic-Scythian origin? I leave to others the work to explain you in details.
example of false cognates: your scoloti and germanic skjöld: this last one < < Origin and Meaning. Germanic name element. Old Norse. skjǫldr = 'shield'. Gothic. skildus = 'shield'. Old High German. scilt = 'shield'. Old Saxon 'scild', Old English 'scield'; the evolution e+ld/ln/rn into jö+id/ln/rn is common in Norse languages, more in Swedish.
Further Germanic languages have a high degree of borrowals from different groups of peoples that colonized modern Germanic territories such as Celts, Slavs and Latins so talking about Germanic etymologies is nonsensical. Germanic languages were not properly established until 16th century and have high amounts of influence from the outside so explaning these words from so called proto-forms does not make any sense whatsover. It makes more sense to explain Germanic words from other IE languages, cultures and groups that settled over modern day Germanic territories and draw conclusions from there. Further core Germanic territories all have haplogroups that reached their lands the latest from European continent and all modern day major haplogroups in Europe had a long evolution that started in Eurasian steppes this is especially true from R1a, R1b and N1c1 haplogroup and also IJK which would later become I, J and K.
 
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Too much superficial etymologies by rough analogies. Lack of genetic and linguistic support (among them the precise study of the Y-R1a SNP's). If I would follow your reasonings, almost the two thirds of Europe pop would be of Slavic-Scythian origin? I leave to others the work to explain you in details.
example of false cognates: your scoloti and germanic skjöld: this last one < < Origin and Meaning. Germanic name element. Old Norse. skjǫldr = 'shield'. Gothic. skildus = 'shield'. Old High German. scilt = 'shield'. Old Saxon 'scild', Old English 'scield'; the evolution e+ld/ln/rn into jö+id/ln/rn is common in Norse languages, more in Swedish.
Further Sanskrit the mother of all IE languages was proven by Indian etymologists to have a high degree of closeness and cognation with modern Russian and by extension Slavonic languages which implies that Sanskrit is a derivative of old Russian and this goes to words, sentence formations and grammar, Aryans the people that spoke Sanskrit originated in Sintasha culture in what is now modern day Russia, so etymological explanations of European languages should be found in Slavonic/Russian/Sanskrit.
 
@Truthnotlies (what a messianic name! LOL)
I think, despite numerous already old loanwords in Germanic that other (basic) words have a direct link with PIE and so are not by force loans from other tongues. Germanic is not only a zinc language.
I doubt highly that European languages (the "IE" ones) have to look only at Slavonic/Sanskrit languages to find their etymology. They have their direct cognates with PIE for their basal words and I think, very often, less phonetically evolved forms compared to PIE. It's true that so numerous "scoopy" studies pop up now in linguistic!
I wonder if you don't read too quickly your books or abstracts?
 
Further Germanic languages have a high degree of borrowals from different groups of peoples that colonized modern Germanic territories such as Celts, Slavs and Latins so talking about Germanic etymologies is nonsensical. Germanic languages were not properly established until 16th century and have high amounts of influence from the outside so explaning these words from so called proto-forms does not make any sense whatsover. It makes more sense to explain Germanic words from other IE languages, cultures and groups that settled over modern day Germanic territories and draw conclusions from there. Further core Germanic territories all have haplogroups that reached their lands the latest from European continent and all modern day major haplogroups in Europe had a long evolution that started in Eurasian steppes this is especially true from R1a, R1b and N1c1 haplogroup and also IJK which would later become I, J and K.
Don't confuse today Germanics languages to the Germanic of origin!
Today every language is full of borrowings. You have just to open any Russian, Polish, Czech, Bulgarian or Serbo-Croatian dictionary to see the Latin and Gressian loanwords, not mentioning others from other languages!
 
Don't confuse today Germanics languages to the Germanic of origin!
Today every language is full of borrowings. You have just to open any Russian, Polish, Czech, Bulgarian or Serbo-Croatian dictionary to see the Latin and Gressian loanwords, not mentioning others from other languages!
Germanic is full of borrowings because it borrowed many amounts of words from already well developed and previously established languages and cultures that already existed in European continent for hundreds of years most of which come from Latin, Celtic and Slavic/Russian, Slavic/Russian since it was proven to have the closest cognation with Sanskrit implies that Russian at the roots is the most developed and oldest language out of all IE languages and has the least amount of borrowals, further the people that speak Sanskrit migrate out of Russia meaning that Sanskrit in itself is a derivative of a form of proto-Russian which in actuality makes Russian and its previous iterations the oldest in Europe.
 
Germanic is full of borrowings because it borrowed many amounts of words from already well developed and previously established languages and cultures that already existed in European continent for hundreds of years most of which come from Latin, Celtic and Slavic/Russian, Slavic/Russian since it was proven to have the closest cognation with Sanskrit implies that Russian at the roots is the most developed and oldest language out of all IE languages and has the least amount of borrowals, further the people that speak Sanskrit migrate out of Russia meaning that Sanskrit in itself is a derivative of a form of proto-Russian which in actuality makes Russian and its previous iterations the oldest in Europe.
?!? ?!? ?!? No remedy
 
There is a new study, which claims to have tested a real Rurikid and the haplogroup is definitely N1a!
This is Dmitry Alexandrovich , the son of Alexander Nevski. There are further claims that sample origin of Gleb is not proven and this is just a random burial, hence the Slavic haplogoup. The real Rurikid is neither pure Scandinavian or Slavic, but with a sizable East Asian component and East Asian mtdna F1b1.


Representatives of the Rurikovich family were the rulers of Rus' for seven centuries, from the 9th century
until the end of the 16th century. “The Tale of Bygone Years”, the main chronicle source about the first centuries of the history of Rus',
traces the origin of this princely family to the Varangian Rurik, who was called to reign in 862, one
However, direct genetic evidence of the origin of the early Rurikovichs has not yet been obtained.
In this work, for the first time, a genome-wide paleogenetic analysis of the bone remains of
ruler of the Rurikovich family - Grand Duke of Vladimir Dmitry Alexandrovich (?–1294), son
Grand Duke of Kyiv and Vladimir Alexander Yaroslavich Nevsky (1221–1263). Installed
that his Y chromosome belongs to the N1a haplogroup. Most of the modern Rurikovichs,
corresponding, according to their pedigrees, to haplogroup N1a, have the most similar variants
of the Y chromosomes with each other, as well as with the Y chromosome of Prince Dmitry Alexandrovich. The
full genome data of medieval and modern Rurikovichs can clearly indicate that
that their family, starting at least from the 11th century. (since the time of Grand Duke Yaroslav the Wise), characteristic
characterized by carriage of the N1a haplogroup of the Y chromosome. All other alleged Rurikovichs
both ancient and modern are carriers of other haplogroups (R1a, I2a), have a high
heterogeneity of the Y chromosome sequence and do not support a single origin. Most
the probable distant ancestors of Prince Dmitry Alexandrovich in the male line were men who left the Bolshoi Oleniy Island burial ground on the coast of the Kola Peninsula around 3600 years ago. Modeling of the genome of Prince Dmitry Alexandrovich indicates a contribution to his origin the formation of three ancestral components:
(1) populations of the early medieval population of eastern Scandinavia
from the island of Öland; (2) representatives of the steppe nomadic peoples of the Eurasian steppes of the Iron Age
or the early medieval population of Central Europe (steppe nomads from the territory of Hungary)
and (3) an ancient Siberian component. Reliable statistics values were also obtained by replacing
inhabitants of Scandinavia into representatives of the Slavic ancient Russian population of the 11th century. Thus,
for the first time, using the example of ancient Rurikovich, a genetic component of a complex nature is shown
interethnic interactions in the formation of the nobility of medieval Rus'.
 
There is a new study, which claims to have tested a real Rurikid and the haplogroup is definitely N1a!
This is Dmitry Alexandrovich , the son of Alexander Nevski. There are further claims that sample origin of Gleb is not proven and this is just a random burial, hence the Slavic haplogoup. The real Rurikid is neither pure Scandinavian or Slavic, but with a sizable East Asian component and East Asian mtdna F1b1.


Representatives of the Rurikovich family were the rulers of Rus' for seven centuries, from the 9th century
until the end of the 16th century. “The Tale of Bygone Years”, the main chronicle source about the first centuries of the history of Rus',
traces the origin of this princely family to the Varangian Rurik, who was called to reign in 862, one
However, direct genetic evidence of the origin of the early Rurikovichs has not yet been obtained.
In this work, for the first time, a genome-wide paleogenetic analysis of the bone remains of
ruler of the Rurikovich family - Grand Duke of Vladimir Dmitry Alexandrovich (?–1294), son
Grand Duke of Kyiv and Vladimir Alexander Yaroslavich Nevsky (1221–1263). Installed
that his Y chromosome belongs to the N1a haplogroup. Most of the modern Rurikovichs,
corresponding, according to their pedigrees, to haplogroup N1a, have the most similar variants
of the Y chromosomes with each other, as well as with the Y chromosome of Prince Dmitry Alexandrovich. The
full genome data of medieval and modern Rurikovichs can clearly indicate that
that their family, starting at least from the 11th century. (since the time of Grand Duke Yaroslav the Wise), characteristic
characterized by carriage of the N1a haplogroup of the Y chromosome. All other alleged Rurikovichs
both ancient and modern are carriers of other haplogroups (R1a, I2a), have a high
heterogeneity of the Y chromosome sequence and do not support a single origin. Most
the probable distant ancestors of Prince Dmitry Alexandrovich in the male line were men who left the Bolshoi Oleniy Island burial ground on the coast of the Kola Peninsula around 3600 years ago. Modeling of the genome of Prince Dmitry Alexandrovich indicates a contribution to his origin the formation of three ancestral components:
(1) populations of the early medieval population of eastern Scandinavia
from the island of Öland; (2) representatives of the steppe nomadic peoples of the Eurasian steppes of the Iron Age
or the early medieval population of Central Europe (steppe nomads from the territory of Hungary)
and (3) an ancient Siberian component. Reliable statistics values were also obtained by replacing
inhabitants of Scandinavia into representatives of the Slavic ancient Russian population of the 11th century. Thus,
for the first time, using the example of ancient Rurikovich, a genetic component of a complex nature is shown
interethnic interactions in the formation of the nobility of medieval Rus'.
The study you presented is biased and immediatly upon reading I found that it labeled an N1c1 haplgroup as Swedish Viking and other haplogroups as Viking or Danish Viking. Why this misleading representation? What proof do we have that it belonged to Swedish Vikings or any other Vikings for that matter this is obvious falsified to suit the narrative that the N1c1 that Rurik belonged to was of Scandinavian origin which it wasnt. N1c1 in Scandinavia comes from recent Eastern migration from Finland and South Baltic coast which was Slavicized. N1c1 in Sweden and the rest of Scandinavia have small insignificant branches of N1c1 and this is due to RECENT migration. Most of the N1c1 in Sweden was found in Birka and Birka was proven by archeologists to be a South Baltic Slavic trading post in the Viking age. Further Teutonic crusades in South Baltic brought huge influx of Slavic population into Gotland and Sweden which increased share of N1c1 in this region and this happened 300 years after Rurik came to Russia.
 
also might be interesting

posted by J Man user from GenArchivist forum (y)

Medieval DNA from Kyiv.

https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/browser/view/PRJEB63275

Project: PRJEB63275
The town of Kyiv held a key position in Medieval Eastern Europe as it acted as the gateway to the Byzantine Empire. During the 10th to 12th centuries, Kyiv flourished economically, socially, politically and culturally. With the Mongolian siege in 1240 this development came to a halt. Here, we investigated DNA from eleven individuals, nine female and two male, from different gravesites in Kyiv, dated from the 10th to the 17th century.
 

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