Where does the Albanian language come from? [VIDEO]

[broder]

All I am hearing is that all Balkan yamanya is illyrian. And everyone has been doing this wrong, Greek is really Albanian, Paeonians and Brygians are also Albanian. messapi are illyro sakati japonezi from brilliant minds of malsorries, jumbo mumbo. Word acedmia has been chasing ghosts, or conspring against Illyrian empire. Evidence does not matter, at the end of day we are all chimps-----> the default go to argument. What else did I leave out?

Who said all Yamnaya are Illyrian? You keep bringing up Brygians, a mythological people from Anatolia who could have never even been in the Balkans just like the Armenians. No one gives a shit about Brygians..

Paeonians you speak of, two early samples from their territory that are relevant before Greeks got involved, both CTS7556 and with relations to Illyrians. Bucinci Z2103 guy from Shkup area is probably CTS1450 too but a low coverage sample (who probably was a Dardanian). Who do these samples have more in common with more distantly besides Illyrians, obviously links to Maros Y-DNA wise and also autosomally to some extent. What did Maros have, L283 and Z2103. How can there not be a connection?


Slavs under CTS10228 within 2000 year period now span from Belarus to Greece, encompas 100’s of martial cultures but still speak intelligible dialects of the same family language.

But you speaks of bordering Balkan groups of being related, god forbid, you get thrown into the Enver Hoxha asylum lol

 

[PaleoRevenge]

Who said all Yamnaya are Illyrian? You keep bringing up Brygians, a mythological people from Anatolia who could have never even been in the Balkans just like the Armenians. No one gives a shit about Brygians..

Paeonians you speak of, two early samples from their territory that are relevant before Greeks got involved, both CTS7556 and with relations to Illyrians. Bucinci Z2103 guy from Shkup area is probably CTS1450 too but a low coverage sample (who probably was a Dardanian). Who do these samples have more in common with more distantly besides Illyrians, obviously links to Maros Y-DNA wise and also autosomally to some extent. What did Maros have, L283 and Z2103. How can there not be a connection?


Slavs under CTS10228 within 2000 year period now span from Belarus to Greece, encompas 100’s of martial cultures but still speak intelligible dialects of the same family language.

But you speaks of bordering Balkan groups of being related, god forbid, you get thrown into the Enver Hoxha asylum lol

We already had a conversation about I8114, you keep insisting he is Paeonian but he is not. Whatever relation Paeonians had to Illyrians, they had more to ancient Greek in speech and Brygian. It's a pity all western scholars did not ask you if Brygians are real.

 

[Southpaw]

All I am hearing is that all Balkan yamanya is illyrian. And everyone has been doing this wrong, Greek is really Albanian, Paeonians and Brygians are also Albanian. messapi are illyro sakati japonezi from brilliant minds of malsorries, jumbo mumbo. Word acedmia has been chasing ghosts, or conspring against Illyrian empire. Evidence does not matter, at the end of day we are all chimps-----> the default go to argument. What else did I leave out?

He is like Robert Kiyosaki of aDNA.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

I'll much rather go with proven linguistic relationship btw Messapic and Albanian and those R-Z2103 and J-L283 samples in Italy.

Now there's possible E-V13 also in southern Epirus and half of ancient V13 carrying Albania Bronze Age like ancestry...it's not looking good for the Hutsul Daco-Mysians.

Proven? lol.
In either case, keep holding to the prior years.

 

[Fshatar]

Proven? lol.
In either case, keep holding to the prior years.

Yes and even Matzinger does not oppose that.

 

[PaleoRevenge]

This new paper is interesting: https://www.academia.edu/144547608/...S_A_LINGUISTIC_AND_ARCHAEOLOGICAL_PERSPECTIVE

Curta and Paliga argue that the Albanian language was not born in the Komani culture area of northern Albania. By the time the Komani cemeteries appear (7th–9th centuries), Proto-Albanian had already taken shape much further north and east, in the late-Roman interior (today’s Kosovo, Eastern Serbia, Northern North Macedonia) or even more north. That is the same region where people spoke the Eastern form of Vulgar Latin that later gave rise to Romanian. One great argument is that the Vlach groups currently neighbors to Albanian show remarkably low shared words that Albanian-Romanian has. That is a compelling argument.

Because of this shared neighbourhood, Albanian and Romanian ended up with hundreds of identical Latin loanwords and the exact same sound changes, a deep linguistic connection that can only be explained if both languages developed side-by-side in the same eastern Balkan zone. When Slavic invasions hit, groups carrying the already formed Proto-Albanian language moved south-west, reached the Komani area, mixed with the remaining Romanised locals, and their eastern dialect gradually became the dominant one.

In short: Komani is where Albanian arrived and took root in what is now Albania, not where it originated. The language came from the same eastern, Latin-speaking interior that produced Romanian, not from the ancient Adriatic coast. They clearly favor migrants over native genesis.

His older work was better, because he did not hold back. He literally said the Albanian origins is not a scientific debate but a political matter. I almost fell down from laughter.
He's right, the debate has not been scietific at all, no science requires prison, death threats, bannings, organized trolling. Or paying off foreign authors and forum admins.

 

[Southpaw]

Yes and even Matzinger does not oppose that.

Here is what Matzinger says: https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threa...ge-come-from-video.37692/page-222#post-691178

 

[broder]

We already had a conversation about I8114, you keep insisting he is Paeonian but he is not. Whatever relation Paeonians had to Illyrians, they had more to ancient Greek in speech and Brygian. It's a pity all western scholars did not ask you if Brygians are real.

Yes, because you would know, you were there talking to them.

Ancient DNA trumps all your ‘western scholars’. Those are the hard facts thus far

 

[PaleoRevenge]

If you're so confident, where will Iron Age R-BY611/R-Z2705, do you want to give any predictions of it's exact location/homeland?

Come mr. confident, run your mouth all the way.

 

[broder]

He is like Robert Kiyosaki of aDNA.

And you remind of the Serbs of the 10 years ago era with your free Dacian horseshit, after all the dna data we got…

Heck, what happed to you man

 

[PaleoRevenge]

And you remind of the Serbs of the 10 years ago era with your free Dacian horseshit, after all the dna data we got…

Heck, what happed to you man

You're just ungrateful, it's pretty obvious your halpogroup is companion to E-V13 even if it was Paeonian originally. But you continue to conspire with the talibans.

 

[broder]

You're just ungrateful, it's pretty obvious your halpogroup is companion to E-V13 even if it was Paeonian originally. But you continue to conspire with the talibans.

Ungrateful for what, baba wanga? Your prediction lol

I don’t predict anything, I only work with the data in front of me. That’s all. As for Z2705 being with V13, in your Bernica theory, a possibility. I don’t reject such a theory right off the bat, of V13 pushing into Dardanian territory with such cultures. That’s why I even proposed the fusion theory via imposition earlier. But until we get that data, I have an idea what Dardanians will end up like based on what we have so far.

 

[broder]

You're just ungrateful, it's pretty obvious your halpogroup is companion to E-V13 even if it was Paeonian originally. But you continue to conspire with the talibans.

Forgot, weren’t the legit Paeonians G2a lol

 

[Southpaw]

And you remind of the Serbs of the 10 years ago era with your free Dacian horseshit, after all the dna data we got…

Heck, what happed to you man

What happened Kiyosaki? You predicted Tuesday follows Monday and bragging about it?!

 

[broder]

What happened Kiyosaki? You predicted Tuesday follows Monday and bragging about it?!

Don’t confuse me keta serhirebazat e Serbise. I haven’t predicted anything besides interpreting what we have.

 

[broder]

This new paper is interesting: https://www.academia.edu/144547608/...S_A_LINGUISTIC_AND_ARCHAEOLOGICAL_PERSPECTIVE

Curta and Paliga argue that the Albanian language was not born in the Komani culture area of northern Albania. By the time the Komani cemeteries appear (7th–9th centuries), Proto-Albanian had already taken shape much further north and east, in the late-Roman interior (today’s Kosovo, Eastern Serbia, Northern North Macedonia) or even more north. That is the same region where people spoke the Eastern form of Vulgar Latin that later gave rise to Romanian. One great argument is that the Vlach groups currently neighbors to Albanian show remarkably low shared words that Albanian-Romanian has. That is a compelling argument.

Because of this shared neighbourhood, Albanian and Romanian ended up with hundreds of identical Latin loanwords and the exact same sound changes, a deep linguistic connection that can only be explained if both languages developed side-by-side in the same eastern Balkan zone. When Slavic invasions hit, groups carrying the already formed Proto-Albanian language moved south-west, reached the Komani area, mixed with the remaining Romanised locals, and their eastern dialect gradually became the dominant one.

In short: Komani is where Albanian arrived and took root in what is now Albania, not where it originated. The language came from the same eastern, Latin-speaking interior that produced Romanian, not from the ancient Adriatic coast. They clearly favor migrants over native genesis.

Decided to read it. He is not saying that Albanian arrived in Komani - Kruja, read his last conclusion. He simply said a local idiom that had just become Albanian began to be favored after Rome fell within Komani - Kruja. Those refugees may have only boosted the Thracian substratum.

Interesting, what I was saying too, that the Thracian element is just a Substratum on Albanian - and also responsible for the balkan sprachbund.

 

[Southpaw]

Decided to read it. He is not saying that Albanian arrived in Komani - Kruja, read his last conclusion. He simply said a local idiom that had just become Albanian began to be favored after Rome fell within Komani - Kruja. Those refugees may have only boosted the Thracian substratum.

Interesting, what I was saying too, that the Thracian element is just a Substratum on Albanian - and also responsible for the balkan sprachbund.

Yeah man, you didn’t read it careful enough, they are wordsmithing hard.

They straight up say:

“If Albanian was already around in the 5th-6th century, Romanian could not possibly form next to it.”

And the only zone where Romanian could form is way east/north-east of Komani-Kruja, plus the Vlachs living right next to Albanians today barely share any of those deep Albanian-Romanian words.That rules out any old local speech in northern Albania already being Albanian (or turning into Albanian) back then. So when they write “a local idiom that had just become Albanian”, the simplest and cleanest reading is: the eastern dialect arrived, became dominant, and that is now the new local language in Komani. The “may also have boosted the Thracian substratum” (notice may also not may have only) part just means the refugees gave that eastern package an extra push (similar people just speaking Romance/Latin). No hard feelings, just how I see the sentences fitting together without contradiction.

Matzinger’s eastern/central model still looks like the one that matches the text best. Somewhere East of Illyrians and West of Thracians fit in. It fits with Satem-like features of Albanian as well.

 

[broder]

I would say a word salad of Romanian school of thought - we didn't migrate but they did.

Still in the end conclusion he closes with that statement, and pay attention to the part above that statement he says there is no way of knowing if those refugees that increased the population in Komani - Kruja spoke Thracian dialect - at best we can only assume that they consolidated a local idiom, that was already in existence by the time they arrived.

North west Romanian sharing the most parallels with Albanian, not sure if that stands. But even if true, doesn't change a lot considering now we know they migrated north.

So, in the light of all the DNA data we have, these refugees most probably strengthened V13 - so the Thracian assumptions there probably stands. However, I think this is where you are mistaken assuming that these northern refugees brought Albanian with them. Most of these refugees came from urban Roman settlements: your answer to the "eastern latin" element too.

 

[Southpaw]

It’s simple math: geography + administration + demography.

Eastern Vulgar Latin crushed Coastal/Dalmatian Latin in Albanian because Proto-Albanians were never on the coast long enough to pick up the coastal dialect.

Huge number of matches with the eastern Vulgar Latin version, way much less so with the one spoken 50-60 km away in Durres. That’s not cherry-picking, that’s the entire loanword layer screaming east. We can agree to disagree and move on.

 

[broder]

Who is talking about Durres and coastal regions?

Sharr Mountian chain to Bjeshket e Nemuna and Mat zone triangle is what I am looking at for that local idiom to have survived in. Fly over that region and see the villages above. Add to that the Çinamak(Kukes) Iron Age samples, all our Yamnaya linages within one site.

Early Latin influence is present in Albanian too.