• Don't want to see ads? Install an adblocker like uBlock Origin or use a Europe-based privacy-friendly browser like Vivaldi or Mullvad.

Genetic study The arrival of the Near Eastern ancestry in Central Italy predates the onset of the Roman Empire

the roman conquests of france and spain and of celtic north italy after the hannibal war was again a pure roman, non Middle East scenario.

roman civil war time was maybe the first time ME could be involved
 
Someday maybe we'll understand why they push this narrative, as if they were trying to overstate non-European inputs (even "smuggling" them through the European Aegean direct input, in this specific case). Of course scientists don't live in a bubble and they also have a cultural formation and political leanings I guess...

Besides, it's not like Central Italians at that time were illiterate cavemen. If major migrations had occurred to Central Italy from all over the Mediterranean, to the point that 40% of Central Italy was inhabited by people coming from other regions of the Mediterranean, we would have written records of that.
no migrations at the time of republican rome occurred from anywhere.....the only eastern area of italy that the romans held was albania
are you trying to involve the 3 ronan-macedonians wars starting in 196BC
 
people need to study 100% only the roman republican time
from their breakaway from etruscan rule to the roman civil war
 
I fail to see how the information in this article would be a "political narrative." It's nothing new that the Roman Empire was very diverse, taking it a little backwards or forwards doesn't change the fact. Some say "they are trying to make the Roman Empire less European," but is there really any point in saying that? Europeans in general are mixed, the Imperial Romans were more so, however, that doesn't make them any less European or any nonsense like that.
 
They did not all come overnight, duh. But it intensified after 100BC
 
According to some Persian sources after the fall of the Persian empire and in the Alexander era, a group of Iranians who wanted to preserve their religion (Mithraism) migrated to the west and created the Roman empire.


Fall.jpg
 
Last edited:
Abstract

Italian genetic history was profoundly shaped by Romans. While the Iron Age was comparable to contemporary European regions, the gene pool of Central Italy underwent significant influence from Near Eastern ancestry during the Imperial age. To explain this shift, it has been proposed that during this period people from Eastern Mediterranean regions of the Empire migrated towards its political center. In this study, by analyzing a new individual (1.25x) and published Republican samples, we propose a novel perspective for the presence of Near Eastern ancestry in the Imperial gene pool. In our scenario, the spread of this genetic ancestry took place during the late Republican period, predating the onset of the Empire by ~200 years. The diffusion of this ancestry may have occurred due to early East-to-West movements, since Eastern Mediterranean regions were already under Roman political influence during the Republic, or even as a result of migration from Southern Italy where Greeks and Phoenicians settled.



A) PCA with the newly reported individual and relevant ancient (colored) and modern (gray) samples from the literature. The main Italian Iron Age and Imperial clusters are indicated together with the Iron Age individuals with Near Eastern ancestry. B) Unsupervised admixture analysis (K=4), on the left Italian Iron Age and Imperial individuals are represented; on the right, populations representative of the main European genetic ancestries.


17yCAws.png
This individual looks rather Anatolian derived based off the PCA. Too far northerly to be anything levantine and way too far north to be anything north african or punic. The study is supporting the idea I've stated in the past in that the genetic changes we see in central Italy occur primarily due to integration of individuals with large, even totalistic sums of magna graecian ancestry in the late republican era and not the early imperial era. It is rather plausible and perhaps even likely that types like this were descended from ethnic Greeks of non recent extraction who considered themselves ethnic Italians at this point.
 
They did not all come overnight, duh.

That's not what the authors state: "In our scenario, the spread of this genetic ancestry took place during the late Republican period, predating the onset of the Empire by ~200 years"

The "late Republican period" is a very well defined and short period of time.
 
According to some Persian sources after the fall of the Persian empire and in the Alexander era, a group of Iranians who wanted to preserve their religion (Mithraism) migrated to the west and created the Roman empire.


View attachment 16761
I don't think Livy would have agreed with you on this.🤣🤣🤣
 
Persians founded the Roman Empire, really?:rolleyes:

Here's me thinking it was the Roman Senate and the legions that created the Empire as a reality and Augustus officially.
 
That's not what the authors state: "In our scenario, the spread of this genetic ancestry took place during the late Republican period, predating the onset of the Empire by ~200 years"

The "late Republican period" is a very well defined and short period of time.
Fully spread? Nah, that's just wrong.
 
This individual looks rather Anatolian derived based off the PCA. Too far northerly to be anything levantine and way too far north to be anything north african or punic. The study is supporting the idea I've stated in the past in that the genetic changes we see in central Italy occur primarily due to integration of individuals with large, even totalistic sums of magna graecian ancestry in the late republican era and not the early imperial era. It is rather plausible and perhaps even likely that types like this were descended from ethnic Greeks of non recent extraction who considered themselves ethnic Italians at this point.
When do you think most Anatolians entered Italy at what time? Before 500BC or after 300BC?
 
Last edited:
When do you think most Anatolians entered Italy at what time? Before 500BC or after 300BC?
Do you mean Anatolian Neolithic or Iron Age Anatolian: genetically rather divergent populations.
After all, Anatolian Neolithic is before 500BC and important as an ancestral component over most of Europe.
 
How's that obvious? What IA Anatolian migration to Italy are you talking about?
I asked Vitruvius; when do you think most Anatolians entered Italy?
Vallicanus asked me for which Anatolians I was talking about, ANF or IA.
I said IA obviously.

Anatolian Neolithic ancestry is way before 500BC, so it's obvious I was not talking about them.
 
I asked Vitruvius; when do you think most Anatolians entered Italy?
Vallicanus asked me for which Anatolians I was talking about, ANF or IA.
I said IA obviously.

Anatolian Neolithic ancestry is way before 500BC, so it's obvious I was not talking about them.
Then your original question doesn't make sense.

It's apparent that this type of ancestry that you associate to "Anatolians" arrived through the Greeks. No significant amount of Anatolians entered Italy in the IA.
 
Persians founded the Roman Empire, really?:rolleyes:

Here's me thinking it was the Roman Senate and the legions that created the Empire as a reality and Augustus officially.
That is a Persian myth, it is believed that the Roman Empire was found by Salm, borther of Iraj, ancestor of Iranians.
 
Back
Top