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Genetic study Genomes from 82 Etruscans and Southern Italians.(800 BCE – 1,000 CE).

Jovialis said:
Here are all of the coordinates in Dodecad K12b format:

Code: 
CAM001,1.38,0.19,1.2,0,47.62,24.58,0,0,6.88,0,17.87,0.27
CAM002,4.72,0.03,0,1.59,40.47,34.19,0,0,4.64,0,13.94,0.44
CAM003,0.93,0.04,0.79,0,49.21,23.83,0,0,7,0.18,16.98,1.04
CSN001,0.74,0,1.6,0.73,46.5,23.83,0,0,7.19,0,19.25,0.16
CSN002,0,0.36,0,0,41.12,32.35,0,0,0,0,26.17,0
CSN003,0.97,0.01,2,0,49.14,21.97,1.05,0,7.95,0.53,15.93,0.45
CSN004,1.49,0,2.17,0.71,51.75,19.41,0.13,0,5.2,0,18.21,0.93
CSN005,1.48,0,4.65,0,39.23,28.19,0.65,0,6.11,0.54,19.16,0
CSN006,3.62,0,0,1.53,45.77,24.02,0.29,0,4.9,0,19.6,0.27
CSN007,0,0,0,0.5,50.29,20.45,0,0,10.86,0,17.91,0
CSN008,4.93,0,0,0.4,43.71,27.95,0,0,4.16,0,18.84,0
CSN009,2.52,0,2.03,0,39.86,27.95,0,0,2.52,0.43,23.93,0.75
CSN010,4.43,0.27,3.49,0,40.36,31.59,0,0,5.33,1.81,11.48,1.25
CSN012,7.01,0,10.55,0,41.84,29.45,0,0,0,0,11.15,0
CSN013,4.87,0,0.54,0,45.93,21.96,0.41,0,5.92,0.25,19.55,0.57
ETR003,10.36,0,2.55,0,30.58,19.47,0,0,10.98,0,25.66,0.41
ETR004,17.44,0,0,0,19.59,19.63,0,0,11.7,0,31.64,0
ETR005,2,0,0,1.54,45.54,20.52,0.17,0,9.35,1.02,18.73,1.13
ETR006,3.87,1.22,0,0,39.39,15.01,0,0,12.67,0,26.45,1.39
ETR007,5.51,0,2.37,1.28,30.11,25.01,0,0,8.81,0,26.92,0
ETR010,4.58,0.05,1.08,0.22,37.3,17.15,0.08,0,9.4,0,29.53,0.6
ETR012,17.52,1.96,0,0,41.58,12.98,3.45,0.35,5.74,0,16.42,0
ETR013,6.64,0.06,1.86,0,35.44,14.98,0,0,9.51,0,31.24,0.28
ETR014,3.51,0,2.87,0,27.31,14.86,0.51,0,14.53,0,36.4,0
MAG001,0.84,0,0,0,47.05,24.88,0.37,0.08,3.46,0.47,22.84,0.02
MAS001,7.2,0.84,4.18,0,26.73,30.23,1.6,0.6,6.25,1.12,21.08,0.18
MAS002,6.49,1.52,3.63,0,23.56,7.82,0,0.48,18.33,0.02,38.16,0
MAS003,2.81,0,8.6,1.47,34.71,11.66,0,1.28,11.86,0,26.84,0.76
MAS004,1.12,0,0.85,0,44.63,29.23,0,0,1.36,1.35,21.46,0
POP001,4.72,0.15,0.86,0,35.02,19.76,0,0,8.74,1.36,28.84,0.55
PRZ001,1.55,0.11,0,0,48.41,23.78,0,0,6.08,0.13,19.22,0.71
PRZ002,0,0,2.6,0.54,47.1,27.43,0,0,4.06,1.06,17.2,0
TAQ001,2.36,0,4.12,0.57,47.15,23.95,0,0,4.6,0,17.25,0
TAQ002,0,0,1.15,0.26,46.51,23.88,0,0,5.81,0,21.27,1.12
TAQ003,5.6,0,2.14,1.3,29.31,17.09,0.1,0.93,11.36,0,31.59,0.58
TAQ004,1.71,0.66,0.95,0.36,48.5,23.89,0,0,5.59,0,17.87,0.48
TAQ005,1.39,0.44,5.14,0,46.29,17.75,0.22,0.33,8.86,0.41,18.68,0.49
TAQ006,1.18,0,3.59,0,42.96,25.05,0.15,0,2.83,0,24.24,0
TAQ007,3.25,0.65,8.19,0,33.36,6.55,0.82,0,13.72,0.07,31.87,1.52
TAQ008,4.27,1.3,0.28,0.84,49.67,21.5,0,0,3.99,0,17.53,0.63
TAQ009,4.13,0.23,2.43,0.82,33.16,19.69,0.14,0,9.54,0,28.81,1.06
TAQ010,0,0,1.32,0.05,48.43,24.81,0.71,0,4.04,0,20.41,0.24
TAQ011,6.51,0.15,1.38,0.03,33.17,19.02,0,1.09,10.21,0,27.5,0.96
TAQ012,3.32,0,1.79,0,51.8,17.96,0.72,0,7.3,0,16.79,0.33
TAQ013,2.83,1.64,1.78,0,46.46,21.33,0,0,6.68,0,19.04,0.23
TAQ015,1.72,0,2.42,0,46.31,21.99,0,0,6.46,0.63,19.66,0.81
TAQ016,2.43,0,1.67,0,46.91,24.12,0.84,0,5.34,0,18.06,0.63
TAQ017,4.08,0,1.96,0,48.92,20.11,0,0,5.6,0,19.12,0.21
TAQ018,0,0,0.47,0,48.53,20.84,0.43,0,6.5,1.43,20.91,0.89
TAQ019,0.49,0,2.18,0,47.66,24.5,0.17,0,5.48,0.04,19.27,0.21
TAQ020,9.02,0.66,1.49,0.5,34.13,18.73,0.12,0,7.43,0,27.92,0
TAQ021,3.74,0,2.51,0,33.22,11.47,2.01,0,12.62,0,34.44,0
TAQ022,5.66,0,2.84,0,34.54,19.74,2.22,0,6.34,0,28.11,0.54
TAQ023,0.11,0,9.86,0,38.6,11.68,0.88,1.34,10.18,0,26.04,1.31
TAQ024,1.55,0.2,4.01,0.27,46.92,21.83,0,0.36,4.57,0,20.29,0
UDC_P,0,0,4.31,0,52.14,29.39,0,0,0.89,0,13.22,0.04
VEN001,5.14,0,3.87,0.01,28.18,17.6,0,0,11.33,2.38,29.77,1.73
VEN002,2.79,8.01,0,12.59,16.3,9.93,3.89,0.01,6.34,27.43,12.71,0
VEN005,6.66,0,4.28,1.53,32.55,10.92,0,0,10.86,0.37,32.83,0
VEN006,8.51,0.54,5.29,0.22,27.14,16.32,0,0,9.76,1.99,30.08,0.16
VEN008,4.55,6.58,0,0,36.17,16.54,2.72,0,8.77,0,23.04,1.63
VEN009,4.96,0,10.9,0.28,29.02,16.26,0,3.03,6.57,0,28.99,0
VEN010,16.14,0,2.12,1.09,37.1,15.42,0,0.05,13.2,0,14.88,0
VEN012,2.86,0,1.41,0.17,24.58,14.71,0,1.75,12.7,5.77,36.03,0.03
VEN013,7.7,0,5.12,0,28.43,14.81,0,0,10.94,1.22,30.32,1.45
VEN014,12.68,0,5.83,0,33.04,0,0,0.24,17.71,1.35,28.74,0.42
VEN015,7.16,0,3.85,0.73,28.62,13.96,0.39,0,13.73,0,30.9,0.64
VEN016,6.56,0,6.02,0,25.63,16.98,0,0,13.65,0.44,30.73,0
VEN017,1.13,1.55,0,0.12,32.91,17.47,3.75,0,12.37,3.07,27.62,0
VEN018,9.33,0,3.69,0,27.33,17.18,0,0,19.59,0,20.74,2.14
VEN021,8.65,0,0.51,3.3,17.54,14.06,0,2.43,21.68,1.47,30.37,0
VEN022,7.04,0,0,5.28,15.13,25.83,0,0.13,20.82,0,25.77,0
VET001,1.52,0,2.24,1.15,42.15,23.87,0,1.18,6.3,0,21.57,0
VET002,0.77,1.24,2.59,0,48.74,18.77,0,0,7.8,0.08,20.03,0
VET003_4,1.33,0,2.66,0,47.08,21.2,0.25,0.26,7.04,0.15,20.03,0
VET005,7.72,0.55,0,0,43.13,37.83,0,1.41,1.61,0,7.74,0
VET007,0,0,2.57,0.68,51.02,20.09,0.22,0,6.74,0.42,17.63,0.63
VET008,0.41,0,8.27,0,38.29,9.06,0,1.75,12.78,0.04,28.42,0.99
VET010,0,0,4.61,0.76,48.22,21.92,0.27,0,3.53,0,20.12,0.57
VET011,0,0,6.57,0,51.11,17.17,0,2.72,3.32,0,19.1,0
VEU001,0,0,1.86,2.69,45.76,22.07,0,0.83,3.79,0,23.01,0
VOL001,0.94,0,1.77,0,44.5,24.66,0.61,0.03,5.61,0,21.4,0.48
Click to expand...

Out of juice, but this is fabulous, Jovialis. Can't wait until my laptop is fixed so I can run these.
 
Angela said:
This is old and well established analysis and data. Do people from anthrogenica to whom you give credence throw out the use of y DNA when this topic comes up? Do you know how little y DNA I and U-106 is found in Italy? Please look it up.If you can't be bothered to look at papers, Maciamo has some maps here.
Click to expand...

We had that debate and one of the last things I did before getting banned was to post the links to Maciamos maps and trying to summing all post-Antiquity haplotypes up for Northern Italy.

You will see that it's predominately in the north, although the percentages are still quite small.Let's add in some history to show why. The Goths were an elite invasion.That's why the Italians still ran everything and not much changed.
Click to expand...

The Goths alone had not that much of an impact, though I would add two things
First, the main reason for their low impact was that they lost, they lost the battles, political power and a lot of manpower.
Second, "the Goths" might have carried more haplotypes than just the regular Germanic ones we know from relatively unmixed Langobards and others. So just checking I1 and R-U106 will miss a lot.

But yes, the Lombards nad even later exchange with the Franks and Germans probably had more impact overall. Though I'm still not sure, if even Sardinia looks like having get some clades from Vandals and others, though their autosomal impact is even way lower there of course.

The Lombards, according to their own historians, numbered 60,000 people including women and children and allied Germanic soldiers who returned home. The majority of their castles were where they entered, in the Veneto, and decreased more and more as they moved south.

By the time they reached the south, whose genetics in relation to ancient Greeks I was discussing, they were an extremely small in number elite. You have to have some grounding in Italian medieval history to know this. It's all reflected in the y DNA.
Click to expand...

Their impact was not huge, but together with the resurgance of more Italic shifted rural people, it caused a "backshift" imho. More so in the North than in the South, which happened to be more South Eastern shifted down to the rural workers in Antiquity and less backshifted afterwards.

As for the paper you quoted, I don't think it's relevant. Individual merchants, travelers, etc., don't change the autosomal profile of a people; only folk migrations do that.
Click to expand...

They seem to have tested local people as well, like they describe in the abstract. By that time there won't be much left from Neolithic and Copper Age remnants, completely unmixed and isolated. So these Italic and Illyrian samples most likely will be a good reference for how the local, pre-Greek colonisation, pre-Roman and Imperial, looked like. So we get both early Greeks and fairly unmixed local Southern Italics to compare with and come to conclusions about how much of whom survived in later populations, or which kind of admixture led to the modern local profile.
This paper could be very relevant for our debate, because the samples we've gotten from the Etruscan one, which being discussed, I guess these samples being mixed and of younger date.
 
Maciamo said:
Does anybody have the locations and dates for the samples?

I suppose that it could be something like that.

- CAM : Campeva, Campania
- CSN : Cesena
- ETR : Etruria? (not a city)
- MAG : Magliano in Toscana?
- MAS : Massa
- POP: Populonia
- PRZ : ?
- TAQ : Tarquinia
- UDC : ?
- VEN : Venturina
- VET : Vetluna (Vetulonia)
- VEU : ?
- VOL : Volterra
Click to expand...

in modern italian codes............. PRZ is Predazzo in trentino lands ............I am not saying this is what the samplers used ....................most likely it is something else

funny how all are towns except ETR
 
@Jovialis
Thanks.

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH]RegioX_FTDNA[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6.55958078[/TD]
[TD]CSN009[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6.70651176[/TD]
[TD]CSN008[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7.05394216[/TD]
[TD]CSN005[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8.12653678[/TD]
[TD]VET001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9.41857739[/TD]
[TD]VOL001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9.50136832[/TD]
[TD]TAQ006[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9.53740007[/TD]
[TD]CSN006[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10.02872873[/TD]
[TD]MAS004[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10.16717267[/TD]
[TD]CSN013[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10.39511424[/TD]
[TD]CAM002[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10.89931649[/TD]
[TD]ETR007[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.10895135[/TD]
[TD]TAQ016[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.41516973[/TD]
[TD]CSN010[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.49166655[/TD]
[TD]CSN001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.61171822[/TD]
[TD]TAQ015[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.65568960[/TD]
[TD]TAQ022[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.66901453[/TD]
[TD]MAG001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.67514454[/TD]
[TD]TAQ002[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.73450042[/TD]
[TD]TAQ013[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.75715952[/TD]
[TD]CSN002[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12.03864195[/TD]
[TD]CAM001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12.06148415[/TD]
[TD]TAQ001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12.18138744[/TD]
[TD]POP001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12.19683975[/TD]
[TD]MAS001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12.25035510[/TD]
[TD]TAQ019[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH]RegioX_23andMe[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6.38270319[/TD]
[TD]CSN009[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6.94375259[/TD]
[TD]CSN008[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7.24925513[/TD]
[TD]CSN005[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8.05755546[/TD]
[TD]VET001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9.31043501[/TD]
[TD]TAQ006[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9.40846427[/TD]
[TD]VOL001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9.58750228[/TD]
[TD]CSN006[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10.09663310[/TD]
[TD]MAS004[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10.16564804[/TD]
[TD]CSN013[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10.57309321[/TD]
[TD]ETR007[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10.89891738[/TD]
[TD]CAM002[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.17414426[/TD]
[TD]TAQ022[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.22919409[/TD]
[TD]TAQ016[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.57910186[/TD]
[TD]CSN001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.61249758[/TD]
[TD]MAG001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.62194476[/TD]
[TD]TAQ015[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.67505032[/TD]
[TD]TAQ002[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.67978596[/TD]
[TD]CSN002[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.73312405[/TD]
[TD]POP001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.75298685[/TD]
[TD]TAQ013[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.81703855[/TD]
[TD]TAQ020[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.90228129[/TD]
[TD]CSN010[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12.18224528[/TD]
[TD]MAS001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12.18560626[/TD]
[TD]TAQ001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12.19382221[/TD]
[TD]CAM001[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH]Father_23andMe[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8.12950183[/TD]
[TD]CSN005[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8.26902654[/TD]
[TD]CSN008[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8.52899760[/TD]
[TD]CSN009[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9.95742437[/TD]
[TD]VET001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10.30569260[/TD]
[TD]CAM002[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10.66195104[/TD]
[TD]ETR007[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10.81955637[/TD]
[TD]MAS001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.26084366[/TD]
[TD]CSN010[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.28917623[/TD]
[TD]CSN006[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.37103777[/TD]
[TD]VOL001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.63542436[/TD]
[TD]TAQ006[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.76161128[/TD]
[TD]CSN013[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.93887348[/TD]
[TD]MAS004[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12.38346478[/TD]
[TD]TAQ022[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12.65002372[/TD]
[TD]TAQ020[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12.74146381[/TD]
[TD]TAQ016[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12.95895443[/TD]
[TD]POP001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13.01693128[/TD]
[TD]TAQ011[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13.14787435[/TD]
[TD]ETR003[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13.18374378[/TD]
[TD]CSN001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13.33308666[/TD]
[TD]TAQ013[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13.33481533[/TD]
[TD]TAQ015[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13.40339136[/TD]
[TD]CSN002[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13.60880230[/TD]
[TD]TAQ002[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13.62126279[/TD]
[TD]CAM001[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH]Mother_23andMe[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5.77591551[/TD]
[TD]CSN005[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5.88793682[/TD]
[TD]CSN009[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7.19979166[/TD]
[TD]CSN008[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8.48606505[/TD]
[TD]VET001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9.31007519[/TD]
[TD]CAM002[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9.43255533[/TD]
[TD]MAS004[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9.49023182[/TD]
[TD]TAQ006[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9.63698604[/TD]
[TD]VOL001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10.37809713[/TD]
[TD]CSN002[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10.50176652[/TD]
[TD]CSN006[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10.65904311[/TD]
[TD]CSN010[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.00640722[/TD]
[TD]ETR007[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.43317979[/TD]
[TD]MAS001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.60437418[/TD]
[TD]CSN013[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.73288967[/TD]
[TD]TAQ016[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.88189800[/TD]
[TD]CSN001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.95920148[/TD]
[TD]TAQ002[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.99474051[/TD]
[TD]MAG001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12.03727544[/TD]
[TD]PRZ002[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12.37801680[/TD]
[TD]TAQ015[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12.45430849[/TD]
[TD]CAM001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12.50604254[/TD]
[TD]TAQ019[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12.56040206[/TD]
[TD]TAQ001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12.75410522[/TD]
[TD]TAQ013[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12.76533587[/TD]
[TD]TAQ022[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH]Uncle_FTDNA[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6.31205989[/TD]
[TD]CSN009[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7.72364551[/TD]
[TD]CSN005[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9.28806761[/TD]
[TD]CSN002[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9.72897220[/TD]
[TD]ETR007[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10.06289720[/TD]
[TD]MAS001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10.35305269[/TD]
[TD]CSN008[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10.59917921[/TD]
[TD]TAQ006[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10.66978913[/TD]
[TD]VET001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10.88827810[/TD]
[TD]MAS004[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.53146131[/TD]
[TD]CAM002[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.89288863[/TD]
[TD]VOL001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12.72358047[/TD]
[TD]TAQ022[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13.24323978[/TD]
[TD]POP001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13.33113274[/TD]
[TD]CSN010[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13.43656950[/TD]
[TD]CSN006[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13.65741191[/TD]
[TD]TAQ009[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13.90660634[/TD]
[TD]MAG001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]14.20497096[/TD]
[TD]TAQ002[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]14.24586958[/TD]
[TD]TAQ011[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]14.36179655[/TD]
[TD]TAQ020[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]14.54303613[/TD]
[TD]PRZ002[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]14.60123967[/TD]
[TD]CSN001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]14.70098976[/TD]
[TD]VEU001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]14.70948673[/TD]
[TD]CSN013[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]14.73899590[/TD]
[TD]TAQ016[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH]In-law_23andMe[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8.06387624[/TD]
[TD]CSN009[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8.32383926[/TD]
[TD]ETR007[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9.37881123[/TD]
[TD]MAS001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9.92019657[/TD]
[TD]CSN005[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.06911921[/TD]
[TD]CSN002[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.48088411[/TD]
[TD]CSN008[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.91251443[/TD]
[TD]VET001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]11.96145058[/TD]
[TD]TAQ022[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12.22777167[/TD]
[TD]POP001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12.25096731[/TD]
[TD]TAQ006[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12.74898035[/TD]
[TD]TAQ009[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12.78804129[/TD]
[TD]MAS004[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12.89469658[/TD]
[TD]CAM002[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12.92297953[/TD]
[TD]TAQ011[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]12.92731217[/TD]
[TD]TAQ020[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13.32747538[/TD]
[TD]VOL001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]13.80009783[/TD]
[TD]ETR003[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]14.41302883[/TD]
[TD]CSN006[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]14.92587351[/TD]
[TD]CSN010[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]15.20734362[/TD]
[TD]MAG001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]15.23402442[/TD]
[TD]ETR010[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]15.38699451[/TD]
[TD]CSN013[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]15.58767462[/TD]
[TD]TAQ002[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]15.94874917[/TD]
[TD]CSN001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]16.01536450[/TD]
[TD]VEU001[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
Pax Augusta said:
In Italy we say with a bit of irony "non ci siamo fatti mancare niente". I hope Angela knows how to translate it, I really don't know how to translate it.

With the Longobards and other Germanic populations, it is possible that small groups of Hun-like populations arrived. I would have to check again, their autosomal DNA doesn't seem to suggest that they are.
Click to expand...

I think the closest more literal translation for that in the infinitive would be to not let oneself miss anything.

Of course, if said in an ironic manner I think something like "wow, we really aced that", said in a sarcastic manner, might work, or "Well, that went right over our heads!"' :)
 
torzio said:
maybe Goths brought it to Italy........the Goths lived on the black sea ( north side ) for nearly 400 years

IIRC , there are N samples on croatian islands
Click to expand...

If its real, and it might be rather not, for what its worth the Goths were accompanied most of the time by Sarmatian allies and some Gothic groups seem to have, even independently from that, have additional East Asian admixture. It was rare, it won't be big, but it was present in the Gothic migration groups as well. Even then O isn't really the first haplogroup you expect from steppe people at that time, but who knows - if its real, what it might be not.
 
Maciamo said:
Does anybody have the locations and dates for the samples?
- VEN : Venturina
Click to expand...

Hard to tell but there are people which believe VEN is actually for Venusia (Basilicata). Autosomal results for VEN samples are in favour of more southern position.
 
Dodecad K12b original spreadsheet (for modern populations). Portuguese x Duarte. Coincidences among top 25 (bold and red samples) using as data source all of the coordinates in Dodecad K12b format produced by Jovialis in this thread.

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH]Duarte[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFC300, align: right"]9.25598725[/TD]
[TD]TAQ001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFA300, align: right"]10.20708088[/TD]
[TD]TAQ016[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF9E00, align: right"]10.35823827[/TD]
[TD]CSN012[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF9C00, align: right"]10.40551777[/TD]
[TD]CSN010[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF8E00, align: right"]10.82643524[/TD]
[TD]CSN013[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF8900, align: right"]10.97969490[/TD]
[TD]TAQ015[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF8700, align: right"]11.01859338[/TD]
[TD]TAQ013[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF8600, align: right"]11.06370191[/TD]
[TD]CSN006[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF8400, align: right"]11.12235587[/TD]
[TD]CSN008[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF8100, align: right"]11.19851329[/TD]
[TD]TAQ024[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF8000, align: right"]11.23924375[/TD]
[TD]CSN005[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF7800, align: right"]11.48003484[/TD]
[TD]PRZ002[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF7700, align: right"]11.50595498[/TD]
[TD]TAQ004[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF7600, align: right"]11.53930674[/TD]
[TD]CAM001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF7200, align: right"]11.64089773[/TD]
[TD]VET001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF7100, align: right"]11.66283842[/TD]
[TD]TAQ008[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF6C00, align: right"]11.81583260[/TD]
[TD]CSN001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF6C00, align: right"]11.83354131[/TD]
[TD]CSN003[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF6A00, align: right"]11.87767233[/TD]
[TD]TAQ017[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF6800, align: right"]11.93160090[/TD]
[TD]TAQ019[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF6600, align: right"]12.00538629[/TD]
[TD]VET010[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF6300, align: right"]12.08740253[/TD]
[TD]VET003_4[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF6300, align: right"]12.08808091[/TD]
[TD]CAM003[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF6200, align: right"]12.10366473[/TD]
[TD]VOL001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF6100, align: right"]12.13397297[/TD]
[TD]TAQ005[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH]Portuguese[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFC000, align: right"]9.36387206[/TD]
[TD]TAQ001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF9C00, align: right"]10.40981748[/TD]
[TD]CSN003[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF8800, align: right"]10.99955908[/TD]
[TD]CSN012[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF8500, align: right"]11.08140334[/TD]
[TD]TAQ016[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF7C00, align: right"]11.34956387[/TD]
[TD]TAQ008[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF7500, align: right"]11.55442340[/TD]
[TD]TAQ017[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF7300, align: right"]11.61483534[/TD]
[TD]TAQ012[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF7200, align: right"]11.65807017[/TD]
[TD]TAQ004[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF7100, align: right"]11.68379647[/TD]
[TD]CAM003[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF6C00, align: right"]11.83439901[/TD]
[TD]CAM001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF6A00, align: right"]11.87492316[/TD]
[TD]TAQ013[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF6300, align: right"]12.09912807[/TD]
[TD]VET007[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF6200, align: right"]12.10893472[/TD]
[TD]TAQ005[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF6100, align: right"]12.15849909[/TD]
[TD]TAQ024[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF6000, align: right"]12.17680582[/TD]
[TD]PRZ002[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF5F00, align: right"]12.21815043[/TD]
[TD]UDC_P[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF5D00, align: right"]12.26249159[/TD]
[TD]TAQ015[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF5D00, align: right"]12.27501935[/TD]
[TD]CSN004[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF5900, align: right"]12.38732013[/TD]
[TD]CSN013[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF5300, align: right"]12.56578290[/TD]
[TD]VET010[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF5200, align: right"]12.57835045[/TD]
[TD]TAQ019[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF4F00, align: right"]12.66744252[/TD]
[TD]VET003_4[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF4800, align: right"]12.87014374[/TD]
[TD]CSN010[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF4800, align: right"]12.88006599[/TD]
[TD]CSN001[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF4000, align: right"]13.11284485[/TD]
[TD]CSN006[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


 
I’m surprised that ETR003 is from 1000 BC as it is close to me. I would have thought it would have been 1000 AD, or more in line with Imperial Romans.

Post # 261 for my results.
 
Salento said:
I’m surprised that ETR003 is from 1000 BC as it is close to me. I would have thought it would have been 1000 AD, or more in line with Imperial Romans.

Post # 261 for my results.
Click to expand...

I found one more sample among my matches. I have no idea why they reference the article by Mathieson et al 2018 and how they date and label these samples. One more MTA mystery. :thinking::grin:

AxtwfcQ.jpg

k3PXBZ9.jpg
 
Duarte said:
I found one more sample among my matches. I have no idea why they reference the article by Mathieson et al and how they date and label these samples. One more MTA mystery. :thinking::grin:

AxtwfcQ.jpg

k3PXBZ9.jpg
Click to expand...



MTA is quite incredible, is MTA labelling all the 82 samples as Etruscans? There is no information yet on the samples.
 
Salento said:
I’m surprised that ETR003 is from 1000 BC as it is close to me. I would have thought it would have been 1000 AD, or more in line with Imperial Romans.

Post # 261 for my results.
Click to expand...


There is no information on the samples yet. That ETR003 is from 1000 BC is another piece of information invented by MTA. MTA once again proves to be a tool run by unserious people.

The ETR samples are most likely from the Etruria region in the Imperial Roman era. ETR001 has already been published in a 2020 study, and was in fact a Roman woman from 200-400 AD.
 
Pax Augusta said:
MTA is quite incredible, is MTA labelling all the 82 samples as Etruscans? There is no information yet on the samples.
Click to expand...

I agree with you Pax :good_job:. No juice for today.
 
Pax Augusta said:
There is no information on the samples yet. That ETR003 is from 1000 BC is another piece of information invented by MTA. MTA once again proves to be a tool run by unserious people.

The ETR samples are most likely from the Etruria region in the Imperial Roman era. ETR001 has already been published in a 2020 study, and was in fact a Roman woman from 200-400 AD.
Click to expand...

…. I tend to agree with you, but then again why would they make up the dates

I assumed that being a business they have access to the latest data not yet accessibile to the public. … hopefully we shall find out.
 
Salento said:
…. I tend to agree with you, but then again why would they make up the dates

I assumed that being a business they have access to the latest data not yet accessibile to the public. … hopefully we shall find out.
Click to expand...

I honesty don't think they have access to the data. This is not the first time MTA has made up information and labels.

Dating ETR003 as 1000 BC is inconsistent with the published abstract and the samples span from 800 BC to 1000 AD. Among other things, the Etruscan chronology starts from 900 BC, 1000 BC is still the Bronze Age and in this era there are Proto-Etruscans who are still characterized archaeologically by the Proto-Villanovan culture.


T14PVLz.png
 
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