MyTrueAncestry Mytrueancestry.com

[Duarte]

EBA Mokrin and modern populations

 

[Wanderer]

EBA Mokrin and modern populations

Interesting. So eba Mokrin is more similar to occitan and catalans then to balkan people todays?
Is that right?

 

[Salento]

Salento: No doubt. Sicily representing itself well there as well, particularly the area in the NW where the Provinces of Trapani and Palermo border each other, or Palermo and Trapani pardon the pun.

by now we all know that every Kit / Oracle gives a different prediction, ... they go all over the place, ... but we get the general idea,

 

[Carlos]

Updating my Deep Dive map

And the update of my kit (grey point) compared to Sant Julià de Ramis I10897 (White point)

A fruitful week in terms of obtaining and new conversions.

 

[Duarte]

Interesting. So eba Mokrin is more similar to occitan and catalans then to balkan people todays?
Is that right?

Hi Wanderer.

Yes. At least these samples that matches with me. The study suggests a great degree of mobility and exogamy in the EBA Mokrin people.

“Abstract

Twenty-four ancient genomes with an average sequencing coverage of 0.85±0.25 X were produced from the Mokrin necropolis, an Early Bronze Age (2,100-1,800 BC) Maros culture site in Serbia, to provide unambiguous identification of biological sex, population structure, and genetic kinship between individuals. Of the 24 investigated individuals, 15 were involved in kinship relationships of varying degrees, including 3 parent-offspring relationships. All observed parent-offspring pairs were mother and son. In addition to the absence of biological daughters, we observed a number of young women and girls with no biological relatives in our sample. These observations, together with the high mitochondrial diversity in our sample, are consistent with the practice of female exogamy in the population served by Mokrin. However, moderate-to-high Y-chromosomal diversity suggests a degree of male mobility greater than that expected under strict patrilocality. Individual status differences at Mokrin, as indicated by grave goods, support the inference that females could inherit status, but could not transmit status to all their sons. The case of a son whose grave good richness outstrips that of his biological mother suggests that sons had the possibility to acquire status during their lifetimes. The Mokrin sample resembles a genetically unstructured population, suggesting that the community’s social hierarchies were not accompanied by strict marriage barriers.”

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.18.101337v1.full

 

[torzio]

Interesting. So eba Mokrin is more similar to occitan and catalans then to balkan people todays?
Is that right?

The individual Mokrin genomes are best modelled as a mixture of Central European hunter-gatherers, Aegean Neolithic farmers and influences from the Eastern European steppes (mean qpAdm tail probability individually 0.46, pooled 0.08).
​

We observed no significant variation in the eastern European steppe-like component between individuals. Pooling individuals, admixture proportions are estimated to be around 8% (± 1.2% SE) western hunter gatherers, 55% (± 2.5% SE) Aegean Neolithic farmers, and 37% (± 2.3% SE) Eastern European steppe-like population.

 

[torzio]

there is, in the cultural entity of the Early Maros Culture, a kind of regional exclave of the Danubian EBA in south-eastern Hungary/ south-western Romania/northern Serbia, far outside its core area north of the Alps. The arrangement of the cemeteries, the burials and burial customs, and the material culture found at sites such as Sándorfalva-Eperjes, co. Csongrád (Hungary; Trogmayer 2001) and Kiskundorozsma-Hosszúhát-halom near Szeged, co. Csongrád (Hungary; Bende/ Lörinczy 2002), complemented by the earliest graves in the cemetery of Mokrin (Wagner 2009),

 

[Salento]

Salento: No doubt. Sicily representing itself well there as well, particularly the area in the NW where the Provinces of Trapani and Palermo border each other, or Palermo and Trapani pardon the pun.

@PalermoT

in dodecad K7: add your coordinates to SOURCE, cut R437, paste on TARGET, run it!
I think it would show you're R437 Top Match

... same with me, but you should be closer to R437 than me.

23v5 kit:

(I shorten R437 name, ... too long) lol

 

[Salento]

... same as above, but with Dod W9
(ask Jovialis where the coordinates are, ... I ran it a while ago)

 

[Salento]

... my top dodecad K13

relatives:

chrome 19 cugini:

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threa...t-West-Eurasia?p=615993&viewfull=1#post615993

 

[Palermo Trapani]

Salento: Regarding your post #3211, I will take a look at what you suggested. Thanks

 

[Palermo Trapani]

Salento: R437_Latin_Prenestini as Target. I included my K7 Dodecad Coordinates along with all the other K7 Dodecad ancient coordinates. Just as you suggested, I am pretty close to R437. I think statistically there isn't much of a difference between Me, You and our Iron Age amico R437. We are all pretty darn close!

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]C6_Iron_Age_Mediterranean:R437_(Latin_Prenestini_Tribe)_Palestrina_Selicata[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #00FF00, align: right"]0.83982141[/TD]
[TD]PalermoTrapani[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #13FF00, align: right"]1.44450684[/TD]
[TD]C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R131_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #18FF00, align: right"]1.57241852[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R58_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #20FF00, align: right"]1.75128524[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R56_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #23FF00, align: right"]1.83040979[/TD]
[TD]C5_Late_Antiquity_Eastern_Mediterranean:R122_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #28FF00, align: right"]1.93958759[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R59_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #28FF00, align: right"]1.95276727[/TD]
[TD]C5_Late_Antiquity_Eastern_Mediterranean:R32_Mausole_di_Augusto[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #33FF00, align: right"]2.20451809[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R52_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #40FF00, align: right"]2.49657766[/TD]
[TD]C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R35_Celio[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #40FF00, align: right"]2.50810686[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R1290_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #56FF00, align: right"]3.01693553[/TD]
[TD]C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R47_Centocelle_Necropolis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #56FF00, align: right"]3.02354097[/TD]
[TD]C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R113_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #69FF00, align: right"]3.46463562[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R57_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #6CFF00, align: right"]3.55280171[/TD]
[TD]Foggia_MA:VK535[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #70FF00, align: right"]3.64666971[/TD]
[TD]C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R49_Centocelle_Necropolis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #7AFF00, align: right"]3.86522962[/TD]
[TD]C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R117_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #7AFF00, align: right"]3.87320281[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R54_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #7CFF00, align: right"]3.91605669[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R65_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #85FF00, align: right"]4.13098051[/TD]
[TD]C6_Medieval_Mediterranean:R973_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #87FF00, align: right"]4.17784634[/TD]
[TD]C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R835_Civitanova_Marche[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #8AFF00, align: right"]4.23749926[/TD]
[TD]C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R107_Crypta_Balbi[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #8EFF00, align: right"]4.33144318[/TD]
[TD]Foggia_MA:VK537[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #94FF00, align: right"]4.48717060[/TD]
[TD]Foggia_MA:VK534[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #9CFF00, align: right"]4.67915591[/TD]
[TD]C6_Late_Antiquity_Mediterranean:R121_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #9EFF00, align: right"]4.71136923[/TD]
[TD]C6_Imperial_Mediterranean:R836_Civitanova_Marche

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[Palermo Trapani]

by now we all know that every Kit / Oracle gives a different prediction, ... they go all over the place, ... but we get the general idea,

Salento: Yes I agree, I saw the K36 and the Yourdnaportal results you showed earlier. The Dodecad K7 results along with the Eurogenes K36 and yourdnaportal oracle using Eurogenes K13 all corroborate each other in that the results are consistent, R437 is a match with modern Italians from regions South of Lazio. The way I think of it is that if you put R437 as a Dependent variable in an OLS Regression, and include Puglia, Sicily, Campania, Basilicata, Calabria as explanatory variables on the right hand side, the coefficients would be statistically significantly associated with R437 or put the means of all the Southern Regions, R437 would not be statistically different from the Southern Regions. While Multivariate statistics are probably not the way to analyze DNA data, it sort of makes sense to me and how I think about analyzing data and running statistical models.

You, Jovialis (based on the results he has posted in the past) and I, are all close to R437.

 

[Palermo Trapani]

Salento: My Dodecad World 9 coordinates included in Source data with the ancient Roman samples from Antonio et al 2019 (126 of 127) with R437 (127th) included in the Target. So again, getting consistent results with K7. Again as you stated, all the estimations from various calculators are providing the same results.

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]R437_Iron_Age_Palestrina_Selicata[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #38FF00, align: right"]1.37368119[/TD]
[TD]R58_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #3FFF00, align: right"]1.53642442[/TD]
[TD]PalermoTrapani[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #3FFF00, align: right"]1.53974024[/TD]
[TD]R1290_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #3FFF00, align: right"]1.55602057[/TD]
[TD]R131_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #45FF00, align: right"]1.69378275[/TD]
[TD]R52_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #4EFF00, align: right"]1.91138693[/TD]
[TD]R32_Late_Antiquity_Mausole_di_Augusto[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #52FF00, align: right"]2.00254838[/TD]
[TD]R59_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #57FF00, align: right"]2.13791955[/TD]
[TD]R122_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #61FF00, align: right"]2.38419798[/TD]
[TD]R113_Imperial_Era_Via_Paisiello_Necropolis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #68FF00, align: right"]2.54493615[/TD]
[TD]R57_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #68FF00, align: right"]2.55685354[/TD]
[TD]R35_Late_Antiquity_Celio[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #6EFF00, align: right"]2.69807339[/TD]
[TD]R47_Imperial_Era_Centocelle_Necropolis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #70FF00, align: right"]2.74001825[/TD]
[TD]R56_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #71FF00, align: right"]2.78134859[/TD]
[TD]R835_Imperial_Era_Civitanova_Marche[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #75FF00, align: right"]2.87899288[/TD]
[TD]R49_Imperial_Era_Centocelle_Necropolis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #77FF00, align: right"]2.91496141[/TD]
[TD]R973_Medieval_Era_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #86FF00, align: right"]3.27459921[/TD]
[TD]R117_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #8BFF00, align: right"]3.40649380[/TD]
[TD]R54_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #99FF00, align: right"]3.74518357[/TD]
[TD]R121_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #9BFF00, align: right"]3.79959208[/TD]
[TD]R65_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #A5FF00, align: right"]4.04586208[/TD]
[TD]R107_Late_Antiquity_Crypta_Balbi[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #ABFF00, align: right"]4.19740396[/TD]
[TD]R969_Medieval_Era_Tivoli_Palazzo_Cianti[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #B2FF00, align: right"]4.35279221[/TD]
[TD]R836_Imperial_Era_Civitanova_Marche[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #B8FF00, align: right"]4.51237188[/TD]
[TD]R118_Late_Antiquity_S_Ercolano_Necropolis_Ostia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #C5FF00, align: right"]4.82091278[/TD]
[TD]R60_Medieval_Era_Villa_Magna

[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[Salento]

@PalermoT

... In Vino Veritas ...
(Pliny the Elder)

Salute

 

[Carlos]

 

[Salento]

 

[Palermo Trapani]

@PalermoT

... In Vino Veritas ...
(Pliny the Elder)

Salute

Salento: Breaking out the Latin, my compliments

 

[Carlos]

My results in:

Latín tardío
[FONT=&quot]Latin late


1. Visigoth Iberian Girona[/FONT]
550 AD - Genetic Distance: 8.765 - I12034

2. Roman Soldier Germany
300 AD - Genetic Distance: 9.032 - FN_2

3. Roman Soldier Freiham-Nord Germany
300 AD - Genetic Distance: 9.04 - FN_2

4. Gallo-Roman Lombard Grave
580 AD - Genetic Distance: 9.106 - CL94

18. Late Roman-Era Emporion
550 AD - Genetic Distance: 11.18 - I8343

19. Gallo-Roman Crypta Balbi
500 AD - Genetic Distance: 11.21 - R109

20. Roman-Illyrian Lombard Grave
580 AD - Genetic Distance: 11.31 - CL23

22. Late Roman Mix Crypta Balbi
500 AD - Genetic Distance: 11.46 - R105

24. Vasconic-Roman Mix Crypta Balbi
500 AD - Genetic Distance: 11.54 - R110

28. Gallo-Roman Mix Crypta Balbi
500 AD - Genetic Distance: 11.78 - R108

41. Imperial Rome Mausoleo Augusto
500 AD - Genetic Distance: 12.56 - R33

55. Frankish-Gaul / Lombardy Italy
580 AD - Genetic Distance: 13.4 - CL47b

57. Medieval Piedmont
580 AD - Genetic Distance: 13.45 - CL57

58. Celtiberian Alemannic Mix
520 AD - Genetic Distance: 13.46 - STR_535

73. Gallo-Roman
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 13.94 - SZ28

87. Early Medieval Germany Straubing-Bajuwarenstrasse
520 AD - Genetic Distance: 14.28 - STR310

110. Basque Post-Roman Era Barcelona
650 AD - Genetic Distance: 14.73 - I3777

164. Roman Villa Granada Spain
300 AD - Genetic Distance: 16.45 - I3982

167. Ostrogoth Mix
495 AD - Genetic Distance: 16.5 - AEH_1

187. Cisalpine Gaul
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 17.02 - SZ45

189. Roman Villa Tarragona
350 AD - Genetic Distance: 17.04 - I6490

192. Latin Roman Isola Sacra
200 AD - Genetic Distance: 17.12 - R37

195. Alemannic Bavaria
450 AD - Genetic Distance: 17.17 - BIM33

198. Hungary Avar Master Mako-Mikocsa
599 AD - Genetic Distance: 17.31 - MMper227

203. Frankish-Gaul / Lombardy Italy
580 AD - Genetic Distance: 17.38 - CL47

208. Medieval Tyrolian
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 17.45 - SZ18

216. Early Medieval Iberia Granada
500 AD - Genetic Distance: 17.58 - I3981

225. Early Medieval Alemannic Bavaria
420 AD - Genetic Distance: 17.76 - AED1135b

228. Frankish Lombard
580 AD - Genetic Distance: 17.81 - CL49

231. Roman/Illyrian Celio Military Hospital
500 AD - Genetic Distance: 17.88 - R36

235. North Central Lombard
580 AD - Genetic Distance: 17.94 - CL63

237. North Roman Warrior
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 18.18 - NS3c

244. Roman Outlier Lombard Grave
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 18.42 - SZ37

262. Roman Villa Granada Spain
300 AD - Genetic Distance: 18.86 - I4055

265. Post-Roman Era Barcelona
650 AD - Genetic Distance: 18.96 - I3776

266. Hungary Elite Avar Kiskoros-Vaghohid
690 AD - Genetic Distance: 18.96 - KVper3450_GE

267. Hungary Late Avar Szekkutas-Kapolnadulo
680 AD - Genetic Distance: 18.98 - SzKper239

270. Late-Roman Era Montefrio Granada
500 AD - Genetic Distance: 19.01 - I3577

276. Frankish-Gallic Lombard Grave
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 19.22 - SZ27

283. Late-Roman Era Montefrio Granada
500 AD - Genetic Distance: 19.47 - I3574

287. Celtic Briton Gladiator York
250 AD - Genetic Distance: 19.58 - 6DRIF-22

288. Visigoth Frankish Girona
550 AD - Genetic Distance: 19.59 - I12032

297. Thuringii Tribe
420 AD - Genetic Distance: 19.89 - AED_1108

298. Central Roman
630 AD - Genetic Distance: 19.91 - CL36

300. Swiss Germanic
580 AD - Genetic Distance: 19.97 - CL102

301. Germanic Mixed Tribe
505 AD - Genetic Distance: 19.97 - AED513

308. Late-Roman Era Montefrio Granada
500 AD - Genetic Distance: 20.25 - I3582

323. Medieval Tyrolian
580 AD - Genetic Distance: 20.72 - CL53

325. Visigoth Germanic Girona
550 AD - Genetic Distance: 20.74 - I12162

331. Central Roman
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 20.87 - SZ32

338. Carthago Outlier San Ercolano
500 AD - Genetic Distance: 21.0 - R121

357. Late Roman Iberia Granada
470 AD - Genetic Distance: 21.51 - I3576

360. Frankish / Hungary
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 21.6 - SZ23

366. Greuthungi / Ostrogoth
310 AD - Genetic Distance: 21.64 - MJ37

377. Celtic Briton Gladiator York
250 AD - Genetic Distance: 21.86 - 3DRIF-16

381. Late-Roman Era Montefrio Granada
500 AD - Genetic Distance: 21.96 - I3581

383. Central Roman Mausoleo Augusto
500 AD - Genetic Distance: 22.03 - R32

394. Central Roman
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 22.29 - SZ43

398. Germanic Mixed Tribe
505 AD - Genetic Distance: 22.35 - AED125b

399. Ostrogoth Frankish Mix
410 AD - Genetic Distance: 22.37 - STR_328

400. Byzantine Roman Warrior
605 AD - Genetic Distance: 22.4 - NS3b

402. Frankish / Hungary
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 22.46 - SZ38

414. Late-Roman Era Montefrio Granada
475 AD - Genetic Distance: 22.63 - I3756

416. Germanic Tribe Crypta Balbi
500 AD - Genetic Distance: 22.72 - R106

426. Roman Villa Granada Spain
350 AD - Genetic Distance: 22.91 - I3983

448. Saxon Hinxton
720 AD - Genetic Distance: 23.4 - HinxtonO1

459. Central Roman
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 23.62 - SZ36

460. Post-Roman Sierra de Alhama
550 AD - Genetic Distance: 23.63 - I3584

462. Carthago-Roman San Ercolano
500 AD - Genetic Distance: 23.67 - R120

464. Late Iron Age Tollemosegard Denmark
700 AD - Genetic Distance: 23.7 - VK65

467. Alemanni Celtic Warrior
605 AD - Genetic Distance: 23.73 - NS10

481. Celtic-Mix Visigoth Girona Spain
550 AD - Genetic Distance: 23.88 - I12164

482. Germanic Lombard Szolad
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 23.91 - SZ3

490. Roman Mix San Ercolano
500 AD - Genetic Distance: 24.02 - R118

491. Roman Outlier Lombard Grave
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 24.03 - SZ31

492. Western Scythian Ukraine
600 BC - Genetic Distance: 24.04 - MJ47

498. Nordic Lombard
590 AD - Genetic Distance: 24.14 - SZ14



When a model has already given all that it had or could give, there must be changes towards other stages that diverge in other directions in which to continue to evolve



The tactic is very good and no escape is possible backwards.

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][/FONT]

 

[Salento]

SZ1 got 17 Centuries younger, ... and a new name:

... this changes everything, ... so many posts and assumptions all based on a mistaken identity etrified: