• Don't want to see ads? Install an adblocker like uBlock Origin or use a Europe-based privacy-friendly browser like Vivaldi or Mullvad.

The Arrival of Steppe & Iranian Related Ancestry in Islands of West Mediterranean

I wonder if Eastern and Western Sicilians were exactly the same during the Bronze Age since Eastern Sicily lacked the Bell Beaker culture that Western Sicily had:
The Beaker was introduced in Sicily from Sardinia and spread mainly in the north-west and south-west of the island. In the northwest and in the Palermo kept almost intact its cultural and social characteristics, while in the south-west there was a strong integration with local cultures.[96] The only known single bell-shaped glass in eastern Sicily was found in Syracuse.[96]
Map_of_Italian_Bell_Beaker_sites.jpg
 
ihype02: Interesting question? It would be good to have both Bronze age data from both Western and Eastern Sicily to answer your question. I did a quick check using Eurogenes K15 as it had data split for Sicily_West and Sicily_East. Interestingly, the data for Eurogenes K13 no longer has the data in the format that K15 has suggesting that it has been removed from the data source at vahaduo_genetics. Again suggesting, I don't know that for a fact. The first estimate I did have only the K15 Italian samples and you can see my fits. Ok, not as good as the Dodecad. The 2nd run for me included Sicilian_Beaker_I4930's K15 coordinates that I estimated from GEDMATCH. It helps me get a better fit than the first estimation (which only included the K15 Italian samples). As for distances for modern populations in K15 relative to Sicilian Beaker I4930, closest to Sardinians consistent with what you stated in your post 241. Seems pretty much the same for Modern Sicilians. Doesn't mean that there were some minor differences in the Bronze Age, but I would think those would be due to Steppe ancestry reaching the Western Part of Sicily first as Sicilian_Beaker I4930 was pretty heave Early European Farmer (Neolithic) type ancestry I do believe.

Unfortunately, the Dodecad 12B does not have Data for Sicily split between West and East, it would have been nice to see that analysis.

Cheers, PT

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]PalermoTrapani[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #9AFF00, align: right"]4.53086085[/TD]
[TD]Italy_West_Sicily[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #B0FF00, align: right"]5.18630890[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Campania[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #B5FF00, align: right"]5.32183239[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Central_Sicily[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #C3FF00, align: right"]5.72191402[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Apulia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #D1FF00, align: right"]6.13476161[/TD]
[TD]Italy_East_Sicily[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E6FF00, align: right"]6.75415428[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Calabria[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E6FF00, align: right"]6.77696835[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Abruzzo[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFE700, align: right"]8.20238380[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Lazio[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFDE00, align: right"]8.46477997[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Marche[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF3B00, align: right"]13.25799759[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Emiliaromagna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF3500, align: right"]13.45117839[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Tuscany[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF0023, align: right"]16.03005926[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Liguria[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF0089, align: right"]19.04361048[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Lombardy[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00AC, align: right"]20.04850867[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Friuli[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00B3, align: right"]20.26026653[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Veneto[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #EA00FF, align: right"]23.11418828[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Trentino[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E600FF, align: right"]23.23004735[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Piedmont[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #3D00FF, align: right"]28.21453172[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Aostavalley[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]32.84821152[/TD]
[TD]Sardinian[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


[TH="class: singleheader, colspan: 2, align: left"]Target: PalermoTrapani
Distance: 2.0956% / 2.09563307 | ADC: 0.25x

[/TH]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]75.0[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Italy_West_Sicily[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]18.8[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Italy_Lazio[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]6.2[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Sardinian[/TD]

[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]PalermoTrapani[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #9AFF00, align: right"]4.53086085[/TD]
[TD]Italy_West_Sicily[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #B0FF00, align: right"]5.18630890[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Campania[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #B5FF00, align: right"]5.32183239[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Central_Sicily[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #C3FF00, align: right"]5.72191402[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Apulia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #D1FF00, align: right"]6.13476161[/TD]
[TD]Italy_East_Sicily[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E6FF00, align: right"]6.75415428[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Calabria[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E6FF00, align: right"]6.77696835[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Abruzzo[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFE700, align: right"]8.20238380[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Lazio[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FFDE00, align: right"]8.46477997[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Marche[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF3B00, align: right"]13.25799759[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Emiliaromagna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF3500, align: right"]13.45117839[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Tuscany[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF0023, align: right"]16.03005926[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Liguria[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF0032, align: right"]16.46679082[/TD]
[TD]Sicilian_Beaker_I4930[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF0089, align: right"]19.04361048[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Lombardy[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00AC, align: right"]20.04850867[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Friuli[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00B3, align: right"]20.26026653[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Veneto[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #EA00FF, align: right"]23.11418828[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Trentino[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #E600FF, align: right"]23.23004735[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Piedmont[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #3D00FF, align: right"]28.21453172[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Aostavalley[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]32.84821152[/TD]
[TD]Sardinian[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]



[TH="class: singleheader, colspan: 2, align: left"]Target: PalermoTrapani
Distance: 1.6189% / 1.61886253 | ADC: 0.25x

[/TH]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]68.4[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Italy_West_Sicily[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]18.2[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Italy_Lazio[/TD]

[TD="class: barchartmode1 nonselectable, colspan: 2"][/TD]

[TD="class: singleleftcolumn, align: right"]13.4[/TD]
[TD="class: singlerightcolumn"]Sicilian_Beaker_I4930[/TD]


[TABLE="class: distances"]
[TR]
[TH="align: right"]Distance to:[/TH]
[TH="align: left"]Sicilian_Beaker_I4930[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF0069, align: right"]18.07634919[/TD]
[TD]Sardinian[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF006B, align: right"]18.14251085[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Lazio[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF0071, align: right"]18.32547134[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Marche[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF008F, align: right"]19.21994277[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Tuscany[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00A0, align: right"]19.69878423[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Emiliaromagna[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00AA, align: right"]20.00809836[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Campania[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00AE, align: right"]20.12783396[/TD]
[TD]Italy_West_Sicily[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00B8, align: right"]20.40018382[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Central_Sicily[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00BA, align: right"]20.46399032[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Apulia[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00C2, align: right"]20.70335239[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Liguria[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00C5, align: right"]20.80721269[/TD]
[TD]Italy_East_Sicily[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00DC, align: right"]21.47904793[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Abruzzo[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00E1, align: right"]21.62923022[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Calabria[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #FF00FF, align: right"]22.48615352[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Lombardy[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #B100FF, align: right"]24.79213182[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Veneto[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #9A00FF, align: right"]25.46879463[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Friuli[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #8500FF, align: right"]26.08204938[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Piedmont[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #5D00FF, align: right"]27.25993947[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Trentino[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #0000FF, align: right"]31.07382822[/TD]
[TD]Italy_Aostavalley[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
Siculi are thought to be Late Bronze Age arrivals from Illyria. They could have been the same wave as Messapi. Maybe this LBA dispersal explains the E-V13 spread all over in Balkans and South Italy/Sicily.
 
Weren't the siculi italics?

Inviato dal mio POT-LX1T utilizzando Tapatalk
 
ihype02 said:
I wonder if Eastern and Western Sicilians were exactly the same during the Bronze Age since Eastern Sicily lacked the Bell Beaker culture that Western Sicily had:
The Beaker was introduced in Sicily from Sardinia and spread mainly in the north-west and south-west of the island. In the northwest and in the Palermo kept almost intact its cultural and social characteristics, while in the south-west there was a strong integration with local cultures.[96] The only known single bell-shaped glass in eastern Sicily was found in Syracuse.[96]
Map_of_Italian_Bell_Beaker_sites.jpg
Click to expand...
If beakers from Sicily came from Sardinia then they were EEF with no steppe. The Iberian steppe admixed migration to Sicily is probably successive to beakers

Inviato dal mio POT-LX1T utilizzando Tapatalk
 
Why is Tepecik-Ciftlik so much more important in modern Italians than in ancient ones?
 
Cato said:
If beakers from Sicily came from Sardinia then they were EEF with no steppe. The Iberian steppe admixed migration to Sicily is probably successive to beakers

Inviato dal mio POT-LX1T utilizzando Tapatalk
Click to expand...
How do you conclude this ?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top